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There isnt a voteing thread.
And WoS how can you go on about being so active when we are only 18~ hours into the game and only 6 pages in, your defense makes zero sense. And how can you go from Im suprised no one has called me out, to I cant believe you think I could be scum.
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On November 05 2013 01:27 WaveofShadow wrote:
lololol the floodgates have opened! Bring it on, hataz.
Sn0---my only scumgame was probably the game with the lowest proportional activity in my history, though to be fair I did that calculation last ages ago, and one scumgame does not a meta make.
Onegu - opportunistic as fuck. You're all over me and liking what I do and now that gumshoe posts some walls you turn on me like a rabid dog. Don't make me put you down. Come to think of it, 'rabid dog' is a good example for you turning on hzflank too. You're rubbin' me all sorts of 'the wrong way' all of a sudden.
I'm not surprised no one has called me out, I was surprised no one called me out SPECIFICALLY about the point regarding the 'bite-me-in-the-ass/wishy-washiness' because it's a really easy 'case' to make as town or scum and people do that shit all the time to contribute. Requires very little effort. And please, activity is certainly not my only defense; why is that the only thing you felt was relevant enough to comment on?
Let's hear you come up with something this game that someone else hasn't done first, then we can talk, k boyo?
Gumshoe I will address your recent stuff a little later when I have more time; i like discussing with you so it would be nice to get you off of my case so we can go somewhere productive.
Where did I say I like what you were doing in this game, I said I respect you as a person but never mentioned your play in the game until just now. Second go back and reread my first post on hzflank, its not just a attack, I call out his logic on umasi. It wasnt until I saw his back to being a jerk post that I talked about a policy lynch.
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On November 05 2013 02:14 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 17:56 EchelonTee wrote:On November 04 2013 10:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am sooo uncomfortably unfamiliar with this player list.. I think Syl, WoS, and maybe Sn0 are the only people I've played with?
OH lol and rayn ofc Oh Thrawn, can you tell me what you think of Syl since you've played with him before? I don't think I've ever played with mafia syl. As town he's lurky and people always want to lynch him even though they know better. As for this game I'm not worried abotu him atm. WOS: what do you think about the entrances of gumshoe and sn0_man
He was mafia in desert with me and marv, that you replaced into.
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On November 04 2013 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Sweet, we're getting the non-lurk gumshoe this game. Alrighty let's see: Show nested quote +It would be fine if he was just absolving Vanesco, what bugs me is that hesitance, or rather how it sounds like Wos wouldn't really be suprised if Vanesco was scum. It reads more to me as posturing rather than reluctance. He placed a vote early in hopes of building some momentum, and when that mometum dropped he got off the train but positioned himself so that if it ever got rolling again, he could hop right back on under the basis that he suspected Vanesco all along. Which is a safe bet when you take into account Vanesco's recklessness (which may yet get him lynched if no better targets present themselves). Also Wos's shambly defence does Vanesco no favours, because it requires us to assume that Vanesco is terrible and should be disregarded if hes town. Sometimes it's enough to just neuter a townie, because as we all know, useless can be just as bad as scummy. I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on; I even mentioned 'nooby or scum' in one of my first few posts about him. It wasn't a bait to get him going, but I wanted him to post more to see his reaction to the pressure; that is whether he reacted in a towny or scummy way (both nooby imo). I got my answer and unvoted accordingly. Call it wishy-washy if you will but I have provided reasoning for everything I have done all day and been completely transparent with my reads and questioning. As far as the 'bite me in the ass' comments, I can't talk about one of those, but I've been systematically wrong on newbie reads a lot, so it is something I am particularly paranoid about. I was wrong about Koshi in the first game I was exposed to him as scum, and I was also wrong about Chairman Ray in a recent game of his. It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now. Other thoughts: If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. Also gumshoe, I hate to drop this card but do you honestly think at this point that the most active and engaging person in the thread is scum?
This is completely subjective and not a defense and the only other defense you offer is, do you think the most active person is scum?
On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe?
Again subjective with you only saying your play has been good and you have been active. So other then you saying you have been playing well and transparant. Your defense was filter legnth.
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On November 05 2013 03:19 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 03:16 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 03:15 ObviousOne wrote:
Echelon rubs me the wrong way too. Need to go back and read a past filter or two from him to voice check.
Haha. Rubs. Have you played with him before? I have a cursory townread on him based on our coming up with similar thoughts around the same time re: Vanesco. No that's why I've gotta go check =[
If you check his hogwarts filter (yes he died n1) but he seems like the type if you give him enough rope he will hang himself as scum.
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On November 05 2013 03:14 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Sweet, we're getting the non-lurk gumshoe this game. Alrighty let's see: It would be fine if he was just absolving Vanesco, what bugs me is that hesitance, or rather how it sounds like Wos wouldn't really be suprised if Vanesco was scum. It reads more to me as posturing rather than reluctance. He placed a vote early in hopes of building some momentum, and when that mometum dropped he got off the train but positioned himself so that if it ever got rolling again, he could hop right back on under the basis that he suspected Vanesco all along. Which is a safe bet when you take into account Vanesco's recklessness (which may yet get him lynched if no better targets present themselves). Also Wos's shambly defence does Vanesco no favours, because it requires us to assume that Vanesco is terrible and should be disregarded if hes town. Sometimes it's enough to just neuter a townie, because as we all know, useless can be just as bad as scummy. I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on; I even mentioned 'nooby or scum' in one of my first few posts about him. It wasn't a bait to get him going, but I wanted him to post more to see his reaction to the pressure; that is whether he reacted in a towny or scummy way (both nooby imo). I got my answer and unvoted accordingly. Call it wishy-washy if you will but I have provided reasoning for everything I have done all day and been completely transparent with my reads and questioning. As far as the 'bite me in the ass' comments, I can't talk about one of those, but I've been systematically wrong on newbie reads a lot, so it is something I am particularly paranoid about. I was wrong about Koshi in the first game I was exposed to him as scum, and I was also wrong about Chairman Ray in a recent game of his. It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now. Other thoughts: If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. Also gumshoe, I hate to drop this card but do you honestly think at this point that the most active and engaging person in the thread is scum? This is completely subjective and not a defense and the only other defense you offer is, do you think the most active person is scum? Show nested quote +On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? Again subjective with you only saying your play has been good and you have been active. So other then you saying you have been playing well and transparant. Your defense was filter legnth.
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On November 05 2013 03:36 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 03:30 Onegu wrote:On November 05 2013 03:14 Onegu wrote:On November 04 2013 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Sweet, we're getting the non-lurk gumshoe this game. Alrighty let's see: It would be fine if he was just absolving Vanesco, what bugs me is that hesitance, or rather how it sounds like Wos wouldn't really be suprised if Vanesco was scum. It reads more to me as posturing rather than reluctance. He placed a vote early in hopes of building some momentum, and when that mometum dropped he got off the train but positioned himself so that if it ever got rolling again, he could hop right back on under the basis that he suspected Vanesco all along. Which is a safe bet when you take into account Vanesco's recklessness (which may yet get him lynched if no better targets present themselves). Also Wos's shambly defence does Vanesco no favours, because it requires us to assume that Vanesco is terrible and should be disregarded if hes town. Sometimes it's enough to just neuter a townie, because as we all know, useless can be just as bad as scummy. I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on; I even mentioned 'nooby or scum' in one of my first few posts about him. It wasn't a bait to get him going, but I wanted him to post more to see his reaction to the pressure; that is whether he reacted in a towny or scummy way (both nooby imo). I got my answer and unvoted accordingly. Call it wishy-washy if you will but I have provided reasoning for everything I have done all day and been completely transparent with my reads and questioning. As far as the 'bite me in the ass' comments, I can't talk about one of those, but I've been systematically wrong on newbie reads a lot, so it is something I am particularly paranoid about. I was wrong about Koshi in the first game I was exposed to him as scum, and I was also wrong about Chairman Ray in a recent game of his. It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now. Other thoughts: If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. Also gumshoe, I hate to drop this card but do you honestly think at this point that the most active and engaging person in the thread is scum? This is completely subjective and not a defense and the only other defense you offer is, do you think the most active person is scum? On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? Again subjective with you only saying your play has been good and you have been active. So other then you saying you have been playing well and transparant. Your defense was filter legnth. Ok so my own accounts of my own filter are subjective. That's a real eye-opener, thanks for pointing that out! Does it make me scum? No desire to read anything else of what I've written? Or talk about anything else? Jeez I can barely contain myself with all of this original, discussion-promoting and thought provoking content!
First where have I called you scum? I asked you a question. Because we were 18 hours into the game and you were offering defense of a case on you with I cant belive it im so active and transparent. Then you come after me because I asked you the question. Followed by you asking me to respond to your second paragraph which I did, because you said filter legnth wasnt your only defense, but it was at the time. I never discussed the case on you only your reaction to it.
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On November 05 2013 03:49 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 03:45 Onegu wrote:On November 05 2013 03:36 WaveofShadow wrote:On November 05 2013 03:30 Onegu wrote:On November 05 2013 03:14 Onegu wrote:On November 04 2013 23:45 WaveofShadow wrote:Sweet, we're getting the non-lurk gumshoe this game. Alrighty let's see: It would be fine if he was just absolving Vanesco, what bugs me is that hesitance, or rather how it sounds like Wos wouldn't really be suprised if Vanesco was scum. It reads more to me as posturing rather than reluctance. He placed a vote early in hopes of building some momentum, and when that mometum dropped he got off the train but positioned himself so that if it ever got rolling again, he could hop right back on under the basis that he suspected Vanesco all along. Which is a safe bet when you take into account Vanesco's recklessness (which may yet get him lynched if no better targets present themselves). Also Wos's shambly defence does Vanesco no favours, because it requires us to assume that Vanesco is terrible and should be disregarded if hes town. Sometimes it's enough to just neuter a townie, because as we all know, useless can be just as bad as scummy. I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on; I even mentioned 'nooby or scum' in one of my first few posts about him. It wasn't a bait to get him going, but I wanted him to post more to see his reaction to the pressure; that is whether he reacted in a towny or scummy way (both nooby imo). I got my answer and unvoted accordingly. Call it wishy-washy if you will but I have provided reasoning for everything I have done all day and been completely transparent with my reads and questioning. As far as the 'bite me in the ass' comments, I can't talk about one of those, but I've been systematically wrong on newbie reads a lot, so it is something I am particularly paranoid about. I was wrong about Koshi in the first game I was exposed to him as scum, and I was also wrong about Chairman Ray in a recent game of his. It's not going to stop me from performing analysis but I worry a lot because I know my analysis can be wrong, hence me opening it up for others to comment on it and pick apart, like you are right now. Other thoughts: If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. Also gumshoe, I hate to drop this card but do you honestly think at this point that the most active and engaging person in the thread is scum? This is completely subjective and not a defense and the only other defense you offer is, do you think the most active person is scum? On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? Again subjective with you only saying your play has been good and you have been active. So other then you saying you have been playing well and transparant. Your defense was filter legnth. Ok so my own accounts of my own filter are subjective. That's a real eye-opener, thanks for pointing that out! Does it make me scum? No desire to read anything else of what I've written? Or talk about anything else? Jeez I can barely contain myself with all of this original, discussion-promoting and thought provoking content! First where have I called you scum? I asked you a question. Because we were 18 hours into the game and you were offering defense of a case on you with I cant belive it im so active and transparent. Then you come after me because I asked you the question. Followed by you asking me to respond to your second paragraph which I did, because you said filter legnth wasnt your only defense, but it was at the time. I never discussed the case on you only your reaction to it. What I'm saying is, if you're NOT calling me scum, what is the point of your constant drilling home about my self-subjective posts WHILE COMPLETELY IGNORING THE REST OF MY DEFENSES AND EVERYTHING ACTUALLY, YOU KNOW, RELEVANT. Feel super good about my vote choice atm. OO, join me. Hell I'll even accept Sn0 coming aboard, even if you're scum. I offer one red ticket aboard the train of justice and you can have it if you'd like.
The only defense you offered at the time was you are being transparent (not a legit defense) and filter legnth, and then saying it wasnt your only defense. But as I just pointed out it was your only defense. Im not ignoreing anything. I didnt care for gumshoes case on you but your reaction afterward is shit.
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On November 05 2013 02:59 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 02:39 Vanesco wrote:I don't like how WoS has been only on my case from basically the start of the game and his inconsistencies so far. He even points out to me not to talk about any games still going on but when Echelon does so here in direct response to WoS, he doesn't even mention it. These inconsistencies pop up many times in his play. He keeps on talking about the out I took from him when I even address that it was from Echelon and I disagree with him, yet he persist that it is because of his out. WoS says that "activity is not [his] only defense", however when you are confused why people would put suspicion on you you just say that you think your performance is decent and that you have a large filter. If somebody doesn't agree with your performance (which is why you might be on their scum list) then the only defense that's left is your filter. Overall I am leaning slightly scummy. I don't really like your reasoning sno_man on the lynch on Onegu. Especially as a Day 1 lynch I think it would not be a wise move just lynching somebody because you have a hard time reading them. On November 04 2013 12:04 thrawn2112 wrote:This vanesco thing, I could hardly be less interested in any of the arguments against him. I AM interested in WoS's post and want him to get back to me before the magic wears off. This is the only thing thrawn has posted that seems relevant so far. It seems like he's not interested in any arguments on me and just goes straight at WoS for his post on me. It seems more like a deflection off of me and onto WoS. Maybe there was something more he wanted to say about WoS but he doesn't really have any useful information apart from the part i quoted above. Yes it was his special day but I do not like what he has contributed in the game so far. My two strongest town reads in the game so far is Echelon and Sylencia. Echelon has made posts that make sense to me and his response to OO saying that Echelon was going "bat-shit" seems very level headed. I was comfortable with Sylencia's first response to my first post and he has stuck true to everything that he has said from the start of the game. My only defense is certainly not my filter as I have explained before (see what I wrote to gumshoe and will continue to do so after this). I am perfectly happy with my content as well as the size of my filter as I personally believe (despite perceived inconsistencies that people are real happy to bring up) that I have once again been completely transparent with my reads, been question and pushing when I feel something is off, and responded to pressure accordingly. There's also something else that you and gumshoe neglect to mention which I will show in an upcoming post responding to his long posts: inconsistencies do not a scum make. You have to be able to explain why any inconsistencies that may or may not be present are likely to come from scum. Not only do I not believe I was inconsistent anywhere, I certainly do not believe you can show how I am scummy based on those inconsistencies. For example you bring up ET's response to me which I never brought up again. Why is that indicative of scum OR inconsistent? I asked him a question, he answered it, I was satisfied.
You didnt explain and even in this post you are saying Im playing good and Im active, thats not a defense. Finnaly you talk about inconsistencies, but that is a slight scum tell, when you add up multiple inconsistencies over a game it makes a scum.
On November 05 2013 03:15 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 00:15 gumshoe wrote:On November 04 2013 23:56 WaveofShadow wrote:
Like...I find it pretty ridiculous at this point that anyone could suspect me but that's just self-bias and ego talking right now I suppose. Logically I know I shouldn't be absolved of suspicion unless proven it should be so but I feel pretty damn good about my performance so far, so I just find it weird that I am anyone's #1 scumread considering I have double/triple the filter and content of most people in this game.
You couldn't find anyone better gumshoe? Why do I have to assume scum is playing bad? In fact this pond has been so shallow insofar, it's not really an accomplishment being the biggest fish. Speaking of accomplishments, I know the game hasnt gone on long enough but so far the biggest thing I've seen out of you is your waffling on Vanesco, and I've addresed that. Everything else you've said has been inconclusive, example I need to have a close look at hzflank honestly---I need to go look back at how he played his newbies; specifically the scum game I coached. Reading his filter I am not largely satisfied with his defense of the Umasi suspicion and he hasn't done much else, though I can understand being discouraged by all the of unwarranted attacks.
(At least unwarranted in his view. On that note I really don't get your reaction to my perceived slight by hzflank, Onegu. I can definitely take care of myself and you really kinda flew off the handle. Was really bewildering o.O)
There have been very few votes actually placed so far this game, and a minute amount of suspicion on very few targets so it seems to me to be advantageous for scum to simply be satisfied with the status quo thus far and not move suspicion off of the targets who are already under question somewhat, both of whom I believe to be town presently.
Random thought/stream-of-consciousness (since I was reading hzflank's setup analysis which I liked): Would it ever be worth it to simply claim blue roles during the day? Yes we will lose someone immediately I suppose but is that an acceptable risk if it means we can track role usage (assuming no mis-elections I suppose)?
It may not be worth it I guess if we fuck up bad and elect multiple scum since they can lie about getting RBed and implicate a towny in a 2scum 1town election scenario---yeah come to think of it I think it all falls apart if we fuck up and elect scum since they can lie about checks as well, and the nature of the checks makes it a hell of a lot easier to lie (regarding something like Blaspheme, for example). Your all over the place in this particular post, saying you find hz suspicious and then talking about how you liked his setup analysis play later on, also you just sort of acknowledging the stagnation of this thread and let it rest at that... Nothing in here is really of any use, theres no hard cases or defences, it just feels like your pointing us in a direction you yourself havent even bothered to fully take yet. In general it feels like your spreading suspicion around hoping some one picks up on something. Also this point If my goal was to neuter Vanesco, why did he basically take the entire reasoning for the 'out' I gave him and use it? You'd think if he was a fiercely strong and independent player like you are surmising, that he'd try and fight that notion. My theory is that hes town and your scum, his actions and responses to yours do not absolve you in any way. Stubborn and independent does not equal attack someone who defends you... Your play just feels to tip toey for my liking, yes your active but in a cautious way and I dont consider town WOs the most careful of players. Also it's funny you find yourself transparent... I dont get that vibe at all, if you are town your baiting scum hard and while that may be smart and pro town it's certainly not honest, so I dont know where your getting this idea of yourself. Btw wheres the voting thread. Alright inconclusivity---I haven't been able to do detailed filter diving/looking into past games until now. What I said about hzflank isn't inconsistent at all. Just because I like one post of his doesn't mean I like his filter on the whole which contains mostly nothing. That's really nitpicky from you gumshoe and I expect better. I fully intend to follow my train of though regarding hzflank once I can dive into his past games, which is exactly what I said in the first bolded section of my post. Not sure why you feel there is a problem there. Would you prefer if I just say nothing to the thread until I can write an essay at a time? Because sadly I'm pretty sure it's evident to you that is not how I play---I prefer stream-of-consciousness and will post whenever and whatever I feel. And on that note---do you REALLY think my posting is 'tip-toeing?' Why the fuck would I as scum post every single thought that goes through my head for the town to read and obsess over like people have been, draw as much attention to myself as possible, and keep positive discussion going? That makes absolutely no sense, and again gumshoe I would figure you'd pick up on that. This kind of behaviour makes zero sense from a mafia standpoint (unless you wanted to make the argument that I'm attempting to spam up the thread with useless shit, about which I'd be pretty pissed if you called all of my posting useless). The fact that you wouldn't call me honest either is frustrating to me, because even in my one fucking scumgame I'm almost completely honest. Not to mention you have no way of proving that at all so it just amounts to an attack on my character. If there is one thing that can be said about my TL Mafia play, I have NEVER lied as town, and very rarely as even 3P or mafia. Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 00:39 gumshoe wrote:Also hate to spree post... But WOS what do you mean he took your out... Vanesca has had four posts since your defence of him and none of them adress you or your case. They are all concerning his stance on Umasi, your post had nothing to do with that, he ramped up his offence because everyone started poking him on it. This is the exact response of a head strong player, I fail to see your argument... The bigger question is why are you still so dead set on him? Weve established hes new, probally town, what more does pressing him acomplish other than the stifling of discussion? Do you still consider him a viable lynch? Furthermore I'm not a fan of this stuff right here. I'm actually surprised you were the only one to mention this so far, even Vanesco himself didn't bother. It has nothing to do with the perceived loss of momentum. I could very easily have kept my vote on him all day if I still believed him to be scummy, but as you can see I wasn't 100% sure of him being scum earlier on It reads as if you've already thought of all the holes in your play, you argue thats because noobies make for your most difficult reads but you've transfered that hesitance into play that coincidentally matches that of a cautious scum player anticipating every blow that comes their way. This combined with your many wishy washy posts and your aproach to vanesco is more than enough reason for me to suspect you. Do you actually plan on picking apart everything I do and say? As far as the 'out' I gave Vanesco by means of my analysis of him and my unvoting---in my mind what ET posted and what I did amounts to the same thing. Show nested quote +I redact my earlier scumread on him and (hopefully this doesn't bite me in the ass) he is now noob town.
The OMGUS on Umasi, (OMGUS in my experience tends to be used by town way more often than scum) the blatant disregard for what a towny is 'supposed to do' (why call someone out for no reason whatsoever---only serves to draw attention to himself which he has certainly garnered). I would think a newbie scum would at the very least attempt to backtrack due to inherent guilt when being shown that what he has done is considered scummy here. How is this not related to his aggressive stance on Umasi? Him ramping up his offense in response is exactly what I stated here I don't think a noobie scum would do. How is that unrelated exactly? So in my mind I suppose Vanesco took my out but in his he took ET's, but they are the basically the same thing and the beginning of my analysis to Vanesco was posted even before ET's questions, so we came up with them at similar points in time while thinking similar things---this gives me an incidental townread on ET btw. As for the quote you mentioned---basically the way you set it up I have no way to not look scummy. You don't see anything towny in that whatsoever. If I leave my vote on him I look scummy because Vanesco is town. If I take it off I was making excuses for myself and setting it up. The fact that you have shown to refuse to see the possibility of ANYTHING towny in my play by the way you have attempted to tear apart everything I say and do leaves me troubled because I know you can be a strong force for town, but you're just not doing town a great service by acting this way. At this point I'm finished responding to cases by you against me because I don't feel like there will be anything left to say---you'll either take what I have to say and weigh it and decide whether it makes sense from either point of view and come to the right decision, or you will continue to nitpick and further misrepresent what I am doing and saying to fit your read. Either way I don't feel like there is anything to gain by further discussing me. Onto the subject of hzflank who I will be looking at shortly---Gumshoe what are YOUR thoughts on him? Hell what are your thoughts on anyone aside from me?
This is the first time you actually resond to the case points and post a legit defense. Hours after the case was made. If you posted this first I wouldnt of had a problem with you. But after you just say good play and filter is why you cant be scum without addressing specific points is scummy.
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Im out for now getting bored with this back and forth as its going nowwhere and just shitting up the thread. Lynch me if you like. Im going to look at other people as I am basicly done with WoS now. His posts are way to over the top now.
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On November 05 2013 02:28 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 02:14 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 04 2013 17:56 EchelonTee wrote:On November 04 2013 10:12 thrawn2112 wrote:
I am sooo uncomfortably unfamiliar with this player list.. I think Syl, WoS, and maybe Sn0 are the only people I've played with?
OH lol and rayn ofc Oh Thrawn, can you tell me what you think of Syl since you've played with him before? I don't think I've ever played with mafia syl. As town he's lurky and people always want to lynch him even though they know better. As for this game I'm not worried abotu him atm. WOS: what do you think about the entrances of gumshoe and sn0_man He was mafia in desert with me and marv, that you replaced into.
Guess hes not reading thread either.
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Ill catch up later in the morning.
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On November 05 2013 13:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 13:09 gumshoe wrote:On November 05 2013 13:02 ObviousOne wrote:
gumshoe's points against me
your speedy bemused response to my wos post
not sure which post you're talking about here, i have a lot of posts. I don't see anything responding directly to you so you'll have to link. Speedy/Bemused are likely to come from town or mafia? Town OO has nobody's back to cover / names to remember, everything is organic. I am personally more likely to make off the cuff remarks as town and less likely as scum, you can check my past games which are in my profile if you wish to verify.
the early desire to remain exceedingly neutral that I pointed to a wall of text ago
Exceedingly neutral, I'm guessing you mean the post in the early hours of the game where I said something about letting people warm up to playing the game before going all-out with accusations? I don't see how that's scummy unless you're going to bite me for a wait-and-see attitude a few hours into the game.
the lack of suspicion from everyone despite the fact that your posting has been mediocre
I must be doing SOMETHING right if I'm not under heavy suspicion. The first tenet of being town is to establish innocence. The second tenet of being town is to not get lynched. The third tenet of being town is that once the first two are met, you might find scum. ♥Palmar♥
Why should my style be more suspicious than hiding in the shadows? I am genuinely interested in playing and if you do the meta you can see I'm not bullshitting about being askeered to post as mafia. I mentioned it in the scum QT for Aperture Episode 2, even.
and lastly your dangerously goofy / : in regards to sno he's pretty much a straight up lurker, I rather lunch onegu because if he's scum it basically clears wos and his posting so far has been highly toxic and pretty much useless
If he's just a straight up lurker, it's Day 1 and we have no Vig so on top of my points against Sn0 you are demonstrating that it may be necessary to lynch him to remove all doubt. Yeah, this makes too much sense, I apologize for wasting both our time. No point drumming up a larger waste of time, I see little reason to keep pursuing you as a viable lynch. I still rather lych onegu because if sno is scum his play is just meh, but I can see Onegus style working from a scum perspective. Basicaly I'm going under the basis that scum is competent, Onegus style has a chance to make everyone sorta glaze over him due to his pain, it's also a good excuse for his abscence. There would be no excuse for scum snos style. Be fair, afaik Onegu has NEVER used his condition as an excuse as to his play. He's a straight up guy. Ugh gumshoe why would you apologise like that? As town you're not wasting anyone's time if you're trying to get better reads on someone. Glahhhh quick do something positive please so I can shake the horrible vibe you just gave me.
This is true, I never use my condition for an excuse and never will as its not fair and a abuse of the game. If you check hogwarts when I lurked on purpose waiting for mods to confirm something I posted to thread I was busy. This being said I have a doctors appointment in a hour and havent read everything yet just skimmed over. My town play is almost completely based on feel, I dont get deep into logic and things, if it feels wrong I point it out. So far hzflanks case on umasi, and WoS defense of Im active set my warning bells off. I will give you guys a hint for future games if I am up for lynch day one Im most likely not scum.
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On November 05 2013 14:23 WaveofShadow wrote:Alright my turn. This was what stuck out the most for me about Syl: Show nested quote +On November 05 2013 12:56 Sylencia wrote:On November 05 2013 08:02 Cephiro wrote:
Aight. That was an interesting read.
As for witchpowershiznit, I suggest we claim our votes only, 72 hours after. I've come up with an interesting idea as well. We will claim the votes in order, one at a time. I have an algorhithm based on certain actions in the game that make me very confident in the idea this will work.
Also, vote me for blue.
I'd like to hear more from players: raynpelikoneet, hzflank, thrawn, Sn0_Man + Myself.
##Vote: WaveOfShadow Have you actually read the thread? I'm sure you would've already dismissed your idea already because we already discussed revealing witchcraft votes and it was either too risky or there were problems in regards to the overlap of blues because we're not likely to change our votes that much between the days, so it's a simple blue shot no matter when we really reveal... I don't really buy the fact that there's an algorithm which would work in our favour 'depending on certain actions in the games' because there are so many things which can happen. Following on from that, why would it ever be a smart move to try gather WC votes so obviously when it just sets you up to be a vig target? The vote on WoS in your very first post sets you up here for a long long tunnel which I'm still currently getting through (though I've taken a skip over the wall of text for now) - if anything I feel like you decided to target WoS after seeing recent posts and then did the long filter dive process to back it up at a later point. This is obviously baseless conjecture but I can see that happening from a scum player.On November 05 2013 09:05 Cephiro wrote:On November 05 2013 08:47 thrawn2112 wrote:On November 05 2013 08:43 Cephiro wrote:
I was simply curious of your opinion about ET. Even though I cannot be sure it's from a town point of view, it still helps to hear perspectives of others as well, to ensure one is not too tunneled with their own opinion, whether it's about thinking someone is town or scum. Even though a certain confidence in one's reads is a must. Ok. So what are your thoughts on this game? You've just now made your first post, but it's somewhat devoid of content which is surprising since you already know who you want to vote for. You've discussed some things with me without really talking about your own views on the game. So far, despite you making a serious vote and having a serious conversation with me about another player, I still have no clue how you're thinking about the game. Why is this and can you fix it? Yes, I didn't intend to start off with a case, neither reason my vote on WoS more specificly. If there is someone you want my general or specific opinion on, just ask. I have several reads to a direction or another, as well as many nullreads. I just don't consider most of them to be worth sharing right now. Nevertheless I'm content with joining in like this, and I intend to make my thought process clear regarding my reads to the most extent, excluding possible thingamagics I have a tendency of pulling off. As for a more concise reply: It is because I wanted to not present all my thoughts in the open immediately. I can "fix" it by replying to any queries you might have. I will also be sharing more content when I find it necessary. How is actively choosing not to give reasoning behind your votes ever townie here? Especially when you make a 'serious' vote on the first post which means that literally no one knows that your train of thought has been before you voted? Choosing to present thoughts only when asked is basically allowing yourself to reveal as little about what you think as possible, which really only has scum motivation behind it since it reduces the likelihood of inconsistencies popping up in the future, no? Skimming over your case, half the points honestly seem like a stretch and rayn's covered pretty much my thoughts on that, I'll have to get back to your reply soon but honestly it's taken me an hour to hit this point because everyone seems to want to write essays these days :{ Conclusion: I don't really buy Ceph's case, and his entrance to me looks like a forced tunnel into WoS. That said, I still need to look at a few other filters before getting deeper reads but Ceph's on my radar at the moment. I looked over this a couple of times and I'm not sure what conclusion to draw. Initially I thought 'Well here's a completely new point nobody has brought up regarding the Ceph case before. I disagree with the conclusion (same as Umasi) but it looks like he's legitimately diving and putting forth effort. Townie points.' The issue I'm finding now upon reading it again is, what mindset does it take to assume that Ceph's aggression is forced? Sylencia's assumption obviously wasn't a common thought amongst those people who tried to debunk Cephiro's case on me, otherwise it would have been brought up already. I think originally I had Sylencia as town but on second thought now I'm not so sure. It seems my thoughts may be more in line with hzflank. He calls his own idea of pre-targeting 'baseless conjecture,' and most importantly he calls it something he could see as scum being likely to do---but would a townie immediately consider this? I think it speaks of a scum mindset honestly. I have him just below null on the scum-o-meter and I will not be lynching him today; as was stated I don't think it will be too difficult to garner reads on him as we go forward. The point of my game though was to see who would engage freely and see which of the points I initially thought of when looking through Sylencia were brought up by others and why---again this can often be very telling as to where others' mindsets lie when performing analysis. As it stands right now I shared some of Umasi's and hzflank's thoughts enough that I am still fine in where my vote stands---on Onegu, who did not bother to address what was going on in thread, rather he chose to comment on my post defending his activity and throw out some other irrelevant reads for the moment.
I just said I havent caught up only skimmed as I have a doctors appointment (in waiting room now). You calling me out again for this is you just ignoreing what I am saying and comeing after me for precieved ignoreing of thread. Ill get to it in a few hours as I have to have a IV treatment I wont be around for now.
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I might have to sleep in hospital so Ill give you my reads and my vote as I have no idea if ill be able to be around again until morning which will be past deadline.
First my reads are again based of feel.
First is Hzflank his case on umasi was terrible and he was forceing faulty logic.
Second is WoS the case on him wasnt that great, but the thing I really had a problem with was his reaction to it, just saying Im so Town I cant be scum.
Town reads for now.
Sylencia his reads and remarks have mirrored my own.
Umasi he has pointed out decent stuff and has been called out for it wrongly, and his reaction to the pressure.
Vascaco his vote was shit but everything since then is fine imo.
Null on everyone else.
Look my town game is shit I know. Its majiorty lynch and a no lynch is worse than a mislynch day 1 imo. I currently have the most votes and Im not sure I will be around. So for the sake of getting a lynch off.
##VOTE ONEGU
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On August 30 2013 08:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Onegu plays way WAY, LIKE WAYYY better as scum than he does as town.
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Ok Im out for now Ill try to come back but no promise.
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Ok, Im back home sorry about that had no idea I would have to stay overnight but it happens. First Ill talk about the self vote. No lynches are terrible, I honestly thought I had more votes on myself then what I actually had at the time. If this was a plurality lynch I would have voted WoS or HZflank. But since it is majority I voted for who I thought was the most likely to get lynched at the time: myself. I do care about the game and want to win and if my death pushes that agenda forward then so be it. Any way Ill be catching up now, I have kinda skimmed everything but havent looked deep into things. WoS unvote makes me feel a bit better about him, if he doesnt unvote I am sure its my mislynch. And as scum it would be easy for him to hammer that home saying my self vote was BS and just a self preservation move. Anyway Ill be around for questions and reading the thread clearly.
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On November 06 2013 18:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On November 06 2013 18:04 Onegu wrote:
Ok, Im back home sorry about that had no idea I would have to stay overnight but it happens. First Ill talk about the self vote. No lynches are terrible, I honestly thought I had more votes on myself then what I actually had at the time. If this was a plurality lynch I would have voted WoS or HZflank. But since it is majority I voted for who I thought was the most likely to get lynched at the time: myself. I do care about the game and want to win and if my death pushes that agenda forward then so be it. Any way Ill be catching up now, I have kinda skimmed everything but havent looked deep into things. WoS unvote makes me feel a bit better about him, if he doesnt unvote I am sure its my mislynch. And as scum it would be easy for him to hammer that home saying my self vote was BS and just a self preservation move. Anyway Ill be around for questions and reading the thread clearly. Could you elaborate more on why do you think WoS would not unvote you for selfvoting as scum?
As scum it would have been easy for him to hammer my lynch home multiple people that hadnt voted for me said they would, includeing you, sno, and ET. That leaves me one short of 7. WoS getting off of me ended the wagon basicly. If his vote stays on me I believe I am lynched, gumshoe was basicly lynched for his unvote and vote move which never happens if WoS doesnt kill my wagon.
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On November 06 2013 18:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Iunno Onegu, what do you think about the fact that last game WoS did the exact same thing, as town?
Its a bit different I think his self vote was basicly out of fustration. Mine was because it is majority and I would rather people see my flip and who voted me then a no lynch that gives scum a free shot and town zero info. It just seems to easy to hammer my lynch down than to find another lynch for him as scum, add this to the fact he didnt really push another lynch until Hzflank. As scum it seems with his activity level he would find someone else to jump on.
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EPT
