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On October 28 2013 14:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
He said people that power other people up without caring whether they are scum or town should be policy lynched. Not the people that COULD be powered up.
Alright a valid point.
So you can strike the point where I say it's hypocritical that Prome asked people to do it to him.
I'm still not following where the 'discussion' re: policy lynching went, or how he pursued those he felt were guilty of such.
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On October 28 2013 14:16 Promethelax wrote:
Oats there is no case.
WoS had two points,
1) the powering thing, already addressed.
2) meta on him but not pandain, I've played with WoS before but not pandain.
Oh look, entire case refuted.
Yeah, no Prome.
First, the section Oats outlined.
Second, I know how you play. You fucking meta the absolute fuck out of everybody in most games. Why are you halting at Pandain now? You say I 'liked' town? When I had played with you last that was all I had played. Period. If anything I remember bitching about still not having rolled scum yet.
Third, the policy lynch discussion---who did you have in mind in your first post when you discussed people randomly powering people up without reasoning?
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On October 28 2013 14:22 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:16 Promethelax wrote:
Oats there is no case.
WoS had two points,
1) the powering thing, already addressed.
2) meta on him but not pandain, I've played with WoS before but not pandain.
Oh look, entire case refuted. Yeah, no Prome. First, the section Oats outlined. Second, I know how you play. You fucking meta the absolute fuck out of everybody in most games. Why are you halting at Pandain now? You say I 'liked' town? When I had played with you last that was all I had played. Period. If anything I remember bitching about still not having rolled scum yet. Third, the policy lynch discussion---who did you have in mind in your first post when you discussed people randomly powering people up without reasoning?
And just like Palmar in Thug Life I will point out: you are basing a meta read of me on something that is months old and you are missing out on half my mafia career with that read. That seems like a terrible meta read Prome.
Are you terrible?
Palmar wasn't terrible when I called him out for that.
He was scum.
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On October 28 2013 14:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Man all the time this happens to me, I jump on a townie being scummy to me and scum jumps right on after.
Not that Prome is town and WoS is scum, just that WoS is way more likely to be scum if Prome is town.
Do you think as scum I would be likely to attack a town Prom as my primary mislynch target?
Prom is there a reason you don't feel like talking to me and instead feel the need to graze over my questions with Oats instead? Am I bothering you?
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On October 28 2013 14:27 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:22 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 28 2013 14:16 Promethelax wrote:
Oats there is no case.
WoS had two points,
1) the powering thing, already addressed.
2) meta on him but not pandain, I've played with WoS before but not pandain.
Oh look, entire case refuted. Yeah, no Prome. First, the section Oats outlined. Second, I know how you play. You fucking meta the absolute fuck out of everybody in most games. Why are you halting at Pandain now? You say I 'liked' town? When I had played with you last that was all I had played. Period. If anything I remember bitching about still not having rolled scum yet. Third, the policy lynch discussion---who did you have in mind in your first post when you discussed people randomly powering people up without reasoning? Because I have never played with pandain before p, I cannot use meta when there is no meta. Are you fucking dumb? It was originally addressed to Rayn and koshi. I find Rayn town and koshi scum.
I thought we were buddies. I'm not sure where this hostility is coming from, but I certainly don't appreciate it.
I see you answered my questions, fine.
When has you not playing in a game with someone ever prevented you from reading into their meta, Prome?
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On October 28 2013 14:35 Promethelax wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:28 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 28 2013 14:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Man all the time this happens to me, I jump on a townie being scummy to me and scum jumps right on after.
Not that Prome is town and WoS is scum, just that WoS is way more likely to be scum if Prome is town. Do you think as scum I would be likely to attack a town Prom as my primary mislynch target? Prom is there a reason you don't feel like talking to me and instead feel the need to graze over my questions with Oats instead? Am I bothering you? Because oats keeps niggling at them, like he cares, like town. So I talk to him. The fact that you are being dumb bothers me, I didn't think you were dumb. So now I have to figure out if scum or dumb, which sucks, Sorry I'm being hostile, it's been a long day I had to hang out with my future mother-in-law and it was stressful. I'm going to grab a beer and tone it down a little. Seriously though, thinking I'd want to meta pandain when I haven't played with him or (maybe this wasn't clear and its why you are confused) read a game with him in it in real time is really silly. I love meta, dont get me wrong but I can't meta people with whom I have no history. Also I hosted your first scum game. You were a nervous wreck.
+ Show Spoiler +(I seem to remember you previously showing examples of meta like crazy even when you haven't played with the targets of your cases, but I could be mistaking you for someone else as I haven't been able to dig anything up.)
It's my only scum game. I've been 3P three times and haven't had a scumgame since. It's allll in my profile. The point of that being you really think you can have even a weak meta read on me based on how I played months ago, without having looked at my play since? In your experience are people that stagnant over 10 games that you should be able to pick out my town meta instantly? Whether or not I am right or wrong regarding you and your alignment, it is my opinion that a read of me based on meta, assuming you haven't read into me just like you haven't read into Pandain would be bad play, and I know you aren't a bad player. It's that 'you're better than this' vibe that I seem to get (which incidentally made me right about Palmar in THug, and much earlier BH in Carnival Cruise) that pops up every so often, and your very first post struck a chord with me there as well. I can't explain that one nearly as well, but it essentially amounts to you stating the extremely obvious, which may be necessary for a town to hear, I suppose, but then again I knew very well not to be running around activating powers willy-nilly from the first time I experienced them---so oes it REALLY need to be said, or something that is supposed to make you look good for a good towny post?
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On October 28 2013 14:48 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:45 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 14:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 28 2013 14:30 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 14:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On October 28 2013 14:20 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 28 2013 14:08 Promethelax wrote:On October 28 2013 14:01 Oatsmaster wrote:On October 28 2013 13:58 Promethelax wrote:
I the resisting = interesting sorry Seuss, my tablet is a butt munching ass licker.
Rayn, fair enough points. I approve and find you townie. As such you and I and maybe Marv are starting a townie circle, which I have the power to create.
Oats, why should I power you up? You think I am scum for a bad reason and are generally a silky bastard who I would not give roles to this early. Remember carnival cruise where you never crumbed your cop checks and in death cleared a scum? You can stay powerless thanks. If you think everyone should be powered why have you not powered me and Marv? The two best payers with power up abilities.
Pandain, the fick are you doing? Why announce your return and vanish again. ##twerkSince when are you good at blue Prome. I really dont expect this from you prome. You shit on me for no reason, and you havent called me scum yet, but arent willing to argue your reads with me or do anything to convince people that someone else is scum. You should power me because you think Im town and you havent said im scum. I don't think you are scum. I think you are town. Two reasons I won't power you: 1 is [redacted due to ongoing game] 2 you don't need a power role right now. There are few people who use day 1 power roles really well and you aren't one, if you were mod confirmed town I'd give you power but the risk reward between giving a scum you power and a town you power is not worth it. Since forever am I good at blue. Look at my MS games or chronotrigger or...that might be all my blue games. What. You wont give me powers because you think Im bad? Non of my powers can hurt town, but they are nice to have. If you think Im town, there is literally no reason to not give me powers. I'm not sure I can be clearer, I think you are town lets out a number to it (this will make the rest of this example easier to show you) I'm 65% sure you are town. There is a 35% chance you are scum. I believe that the way you would use a power role as scum would benefit your team at least twice as much as the way you using your power role as town would benefit your team. Thus I chose not to power you up because I felt the cost benefit analysis suggested that voting you would be more helpful to scum than to town. Rayn, weigh In Here, am I being clear? Y/n Yes, and i think you think alike me regarding the powers. Could you give me an updated read on Pandain? I could but its too early to be clear with each other. Lets play a game: This post is the one I find most alignment indicative Tell me why and which alignment I think he is Based on the context and my thoguht process at that time i do not find that post alignment indicative at all. If there was something alignment indicative in that post, to me it would be that Pandain for some reason at first refused to give out the game (i am not sure if he did figure out what i was after in the first place) -- and that would point towards him being scum. But i do not think it's the case here. Why do you think that post is alignment indicative and to which direction? He didn't want to give out the game because it was personally embarrassing. But when pressed he went ahead with it without putting up any real fight. That seems to me to be the action of a scum trying to be seen as working hard for a better town environment (the classic "please post your filter from that game" scum tactic where one tries to appear involved) without actually adding anything to the town. Were I a townie embarrassed of a past game I'd refuse to post it, he didn't really fight it. Also the most recent post on me being scummy is, well, scummy. If he wanted to call me scum he could have made a case. Instead he quote padded his post to talk at you and added his attack on me in one line and concluded that I was scummy while leaving himself an out. I'd take pandain is likely red with koshi. What? I posted it to avoid suspicion or what he would probably inevitably do and make a dumb argument about how it was a scum slip and this was therefore my fourth mafia game. Also I have to own up to my signs eventually
Correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to remember you giving out 'signs' even in your recent scumgames. Means shit all to me.
I have to ruminate on both you and Prome so I will let the day progress. I somewhat liked his answers...not enough to unvote atm but I will be back tomorrow. His pressure on you will certainly help me ascertain better reads of the both of you.
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On October 28 2013 14:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Pandain why are you saying you look bad yourself?
If you are town you are supposed to be right and your posting now does not imply you yourself think you are right..
##Vote: Pandain
Last thing before I go.
Is that scummy in and of itself, Rayn?
If anything that lack of confidence strikes me as a very different Pandain from the one I've seen recently.
Even were I not to use meta, there is absolutely nothing inherently scummy about the seeming lack of confidence---he is either lying about his confidence to make him look towny, or he is town.
See yall tomorrow.
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Hai marv.
I can talk about Prome for just a little bit atm if you'd like, but I'm nor sure how long I'll be around so we won't be able to pick each other's brains as per usual. What exactly were you saving up regarding your townread of him to tell me?
Oh and regarding Seuss (monte it's so weird to call you that) he seems pretty town to me. Like he said I coached him and his behaviour falls pretty in line with his last newbie, as well as what you determined to be him rolefishing. I give him the WaveofShadow newbie stamp of approval for now, though I would really like to hear some reads from him, as I know he is pretty capable of good analysis with way less to work with than has been posted in this thread.
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On October 28 2013 22:42 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 22:41 Clarity_nl wrote:Hi guys, I'm caught up. No tweeting for me. So far I dislike Oats and like Prome. On October 28 2013 12:39 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yeah I think marv is town for mainly that post and the fact that he didnt come out guns blazing. Baseless townread on marv is baseless. On October 28 2013 19:52 Oatsmaster wrote:
marv, who other than seuss are you looking at as scum? On October 28 2013 20:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
Marv what are you seeing about prome? Town or scum? Because that kinda affects whether I fix my thing now or NEVER. A bit too early to start sheeping someone. Maybe if he replied to marv's answers but he does not. Other than that Oats has pointed out a lot of things but not concluded anything about the things he points out. But mainly it's his reaction to WoS's post: + Show Spoiler +On October 28 2013 14:01 WaveofShadow wrote:
Just popped in to say ##Paranoia I don't like your play this game either Prom.
Your first post yelling at everybody not to be powering everybody up....I completely agree with.
I just wouldn't have expected it to come from you.
You take it a step further though---you say not only is powering other people up dumb, but you say it's policy lynchable.
Have you pursued this course of action in your questioning of all of the people who have done so thus far?
And THEN, not 4 posts later, you explain to everybody how to power you up.
This reminds me of the very first ever game I played with you Prom, LX, in which you created some horseshit RNG talk early 'just to get discussion started' and you were promptly lynched for it---and flipped red.
So Prome, your reads list at the start of the game. All I remember is you saying you'd lynch me based on my entry to the thread. I don't see you pursuing your policy lynches, your apparent scumreads or your 'discussion.' Funny part is' you never actually call me scum, you just say you'd lynch me based on me entering the thread and leaving, and even THEN you don't pursue it, and have not mentioned me even once since then.
Your activity is pretty fantastic and all, and I get that you think Pandain tryharding is also pretty fantastic, but that don't mean shit imo. It's funny though, you say you'd rather base your read of Pandain off of what you get from him this game only and ignore his past meta, but you're ok to base your weak early read of me on meta even though you haven't played a game with me in ages?
You are incredibly inconsistent just from your first few posts and I don't like it. I don't like it one bit sir.
Care to discuss?
##Vote: Promethelax
Oats replies (intentionally or not, it's a minute later): On October 28 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
super #mindblown by Prome's play today if hes town.
Which is either reactive to WoS's case on Prome, or not, doesn't matter. Thing is, Oats just expressed a definite interest in Prome being possible scum. WoS made a case on the person that Oats just drew attention to, so what does oats have to say about that? On October 28 2013 14:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
Lol WoS, prome explained what we needed to do to power him because I asked. Nothing apparently.... He just wanted to correct a detail in WoS's post. If Oats was genuinely concerned about prome being mafia, why does he not take this opportunity to talk about it? All he did was say "if town, then bad" which does nothing, pressures nothing. It's posting for the sake of posting. Yuck.
LOL I thought the exact same thing.
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On October 28 2013 22:45 marvellosity wrote:
Depends how long you have Wave. Basically it would take me a little time to gather the shit that I think makes Prome probably town, and I'd want to know why you disagreed.
If you're going to be here for an hour, I'll go start digging, otherwise it can wait.
Yeah I'll be here on and off. It just may not be the usual back and forth. Go ahead.
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On October 28 2013 22:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
So, it's cool that you both thought yuck at the same time apparently, but then don't just ignore me and talk to eachother, explain.
Your case to me seems based on basically nothing. Oats clearly posted his thing directly after my post not as a reply to it, and as far as correcting what he viewed as inconsistencies, that could theoretically be seen as towny since poking holes in a case on your scumread will either dismantle it or make it stronger---becoming something you can use. I don't personally believe it is alignment indicative but whatever.
I didn't get a scumvibe from Oats for not specifically taking the points I used and running with them because he was working on his own stuff and looked like he was actually trying to figure out what was useful or not from my case.
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On October 28 2013 23:01 Promethelax wrote:
marv, that is kind of a subtle read. Not super subtle but like not a read I'd expect a newer player to have.
As soon as I typed this I realized WoS isn't actually all that new anymore, carry on.
Clarity. Explain what oats is doing here that is out of character for him. Unless he started making sense and not doing stupid shit/changing his mind all the time this is totally in line with his meta AND that meta applies to both alignments so even if he wasn't doing that (which he is) it wouldn't be alignment indicative. I'd get you the venn diagram but I think you get my point.
So despite me harping on you for your meta read of me, you just realized this?
Marv I actually had a townread on someone else this game for something very similar but that was very late last night and I can't remember who it was exactly. Not the arrogance but the quizzing and confidence that people 'see him as town and here's why.' I'll try to look back and figure out where it was I came up with that.
Essentially your read to me makes sense, and I'm glad it is for reasons that didn't occur to me/are not related to my case since that gives me more to think about. I'm always a little bit wary of giving experienced players townreads based on mafia not being so upfront and arrogant though because there are definitely people very capable of that kind of play (ie Pandain). I guess in Prome's case it's mroe the mindset behind that type of play and his posting? I'll have a closer look.
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On October 28 2013 23:04 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 23:01 Promethelax wrote:
marv, that is kind of a subtle read. Not super subtle but like not a read I'd expect a newer player to have.
As soon as I typed this I realized WoS isn't actually all that new anymore, carry on.
Clarity. Explain what oats is doing here that is out of character for him. Unless he started making sense and not doing stupid shit/changing his mind all the time this is totally in line with his meta AND that meta applies to both alignments so even if he wasn't doing that (which he is) it wouldn't be alignment indicative. I'd get you the venn diagram but I think you get my point. I've never seen an Oats scum game I'll be honest. Yes, Oats is all over the place, but when he's talking about one thing he doesn't ignore stuff relevant to what he's talking about e.g. WoS's case on you.
Tell me Clarity, does this fit with him ignoring my case? Because to me it looks like he's interested in how Prome reacts to it.
On October 28 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 14:10 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 28 2013 14:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
He said people that power other people up without caring whether they are scum or town should be policy lynched. Not the people that COULD be powered up. Alright a valid point. So you can strike the point where I say it's hypocritical that Prome asked people to do it to him. I'm still not following where the 'discussion' re: policy lynching went, or how he pursued those he felt were guilty of such. Go address case please Prome.
On October 28 2013 14:18 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +So Prome, your reads list at the start of the game. All I remember is you saying you'd lynch me based on my entry to the thread. I don't see you pursuing your policy lynches, your apparent scumreads or your 'discussion.' Funny part is' you never actually call me scum, you just say you'd lynch me based on me entering the thread and leaving, and even THEN you don't pursue it, and have not mentioned me even once since then.
Go prome!.
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On October 28 2013 23:16 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm talking about his initial response to it. Obviously (in the hypothetical that oats is scum) he figures out "oh yeah I expressed interest in Prome"
Did his initial response to your case not strike you as odd?
Not in the slightest.
On October 28 2013 23:15 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 23:10 WaveofShadow wrote:On October 28 2013 23:01 Promethelax wrote:
marv, that is kind of a subtle read. Not super subtle but like not a read I'd expect a newer player to have.
As soon as I typed this I realized WoS isn't actually all that new anymore, carry on.
Clarity. Explain what oats is doing here that is out of character for him. Unless he started making sense and not doing stupid shit/changing his mind all the time this is totally in line with his meta AND that meta applies to both alignments so even if he wasn't doing that (which he is) it wouldn't be alignment indicative. I'd get you the venn diagram but I think you get my point. So despite me harping on you for your meta read of me, you just realized this? Marv I actually had a townread on someone else this game for something very similar but that was very late last night and I can't remember who it was exactly. Not the arrogance but the quizzing and confidence that people 'see him as town and here's why.' I'll try to look back and figure out where it was I came up with that. Essentially your read to me makes sense, and I'm glad it is for reasons that didn't occur to me/are not related to my case since that gives me more to think about. I'm always a little bit wary of giving experienced players townreads based on mafia not being so upfront and arrogant though because there are definitely people very capable of that kind of play (ie Pandain). I guess in Prome's case it's mroe the mindset behind that type of play and his posting? I'll have a closer look. I think it's kinda easy to make a case against Prome, and Prome will verify that I often find his opening post or two really really scummy (I PM him about it in shock, or comment on it if I'm in a game). I just think the attitude/mindset trumps it. Btw, I understand what you're doing with your analogy with Pandain, but it's different. Pandain basically calls himself obviously town, but doesn't really display the supporting stuff like Prome has, in my opinion. One interesting thing to note is that I formed my opinion on Prome in a ten-page catch up on the thread this morning, so I got to take the "wider" view, as it were. On Seuss, I'll take your read under advisement. I still hate how he went about his criticisms, but his subsequent responses at least feel earnest. I'll judge him on the rest of his play.
Alright on the subject of Pandain---what do you make of the strong push against him and his reaction to it? His play this game seems markedly different from what I've seen, not that I would give him a read solely based on this since I'm pretty sure Pandain is always hyper-aware of what he looks like.
On October 28 2013 08:34 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 28 2013 08:30 Koshi wrote:
Pandain has a point on rayn though. He uses his power and then instantly goes "w00ps, shouldn't have done that"
I don't like it. That's not what Pandain said was scummy. He said Rayn's instant use of his power was scummy. Why is that, exactly? There is not very much to go on at all and he says things like Rayn calling out weird logic without immediately pursuing him is scummy in the first hour of the game. Overall his posting reeks of someone trying too hard right now. I've done this before as mafia, for the record---it's really easy to fabricate some easy shit, and then make an excuse for yourself to fuck off for a while by complaining that there's 'nothing else to talk about,' or 'no one to talk to,' in the hopes that people will assume his early and active contributions are town-aligned and forget about him.
My post on his early play is above (I guess in retrospect I've done a fair bit of omgus-ing this game) and he displays nowhere near the level of self-confidence and analysis I have seen him put into reads. I haven't pursued him as a target since I latched onto Prome and now I'd like to come full circle since it seems he was heavily pressured without my input on the subject. Your thoughts?
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On October 28 2013 23:27 marvellosity wrote:
Most of the case on Pandain seems to come down to him playing bad or weird. But I don't know what that means. Someone said to me after I died about Pandain flipped mafia in Hogwarts - "I should have known, he was posting too sensibly". So, yeah.
Well those are your thoughts on the cases on Pandain, what about your thoughts on Pandain? 
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Seuss your reads are alright, keep it up. I think you'll find if you continue to play with us why your read on Oats is the way it is. Shit just tends not to apply to Oats, though I must say I have actually liked Oats' play this game which is odd for me.
There are a lot of people we have yet to really hear much from and that bothers me.
Alright leaving for now. Before I come back I'm going to try and have a look at Prome in the context of marv's analysis of him because I'd like to put that to bed one way or another and move on.
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On October 29 2013 01:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:48 Oatsmaster wrote:
I feel really good about killing Clarity.
This is the one game where town shouldnt be making cases on me.
I was kinda fishing for something like this, good man :p I have this little theory in my head, that Clarity made a case on you because we had this conversation in Heavyweight about how only townies attack Oats, and mafia never do.
Funny thing about that is I tend to suspect Oats quite a bit in games we've played together and have been town for each and every one of those I believe. Is this a theory that has credence lent to it?
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On October 29 2013 02:16 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On October 29 2013 01:48 Koshi wrote:
Yeah, I am going to go with marv, rayn, seuss and Oats town.
But your townread just got downgraded a bit because you are correct on the amount of pages in this game. Haha, this is funny. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:
1) Oats townreads are either "nice and shit" or "agressive and shit".
2) Oats does not realise that this game is 6 pages long instead of 20.
3) Oats calls me scum if I point out he is shitting up the thread.
4) Oats does not answer me when I ask him who should be lord in our house in theory, but then wants me to explain to him why I find DI scummy over S0lstice.
Here is my first real scumread. Don't think it says anything at all for Koshi's alignment, but I found it and it tickled me, so I thought I'd share.
Marv how the fuck do you find this shit?
Maybe it was your crazy meta use I was mixing up with Prome's earlier.
Actually on that note did you make anything of Prome's attempt to use meta to give me a weak scumread early despite not having played with me in months? I know he since explained it but I'd like to know what you think if anything.
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On October 29 2013 02:47 marvellosity wrote:
Well, I was/am finding Koshi somewhat scummy, so I thought I'd browse his most recent scumgame. And voila ^_^
For your Prome question, I'm kinda inclined to think he was just being bad. Like meh, seems a dumb thing to push if you're mafia, because it's so easy to pick holes in (witness what happened)
But he didn't push it, which was the problem I originally had. He gave early scumreads and then didn't bother pursuing (aside from questioning Rayn regarding early powerup enabling, and he thinks Koshi is scum for similar).
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EPT
