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On October 04 2013 08:25 VayneAuthority wrote:
actually it makes him scummier austin, but I still can't say anything. ffs... He's not even hard defending though, he's hard defending WITH VIGOR.
I don't know pandain's play from Adam's, but in general I find someone who's going back to past games and posting about them, actually using them, as well as posting this much and this hard about someone, to be a townie thang. Especially when he's getting NO traction with it, there's currently no payoff, nobody talking with him, nobody to convince, it's just posting a read into a vacuum and hoping to do something with it.
You find it defending el scumbuddiero? Or just a ton of activity on a single subject concerning a read you disagree with?
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I forget how I feel about oats! The post points out some things that Oats has done. He's possibly scum, but I don't love the idea of lynching him today and if I don't recall my oats read it's something weak in one direction or the other.
VA I don't want to lynch today. He might be scum but he might not! Right now I want to keep him around, at the very least he's sometimes contributing, moreso than other folks. coughcough kill VE and Palmar.
Post so wishy washy!
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wtf oats has 9 pages of filter. When did he make posts?
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On October 04 2013 08:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
Give me some votes guys, I need incentive to do something in this game. Whether you actually want to lynch me or not, the pro-town thing is to put votes on me until I contribute something. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter. You're gonna need to take a number.
VE I don't care if you're not motivated, give me something...neat. A weird kooky read. A post that really caught your attention but you don't know what to do with it.
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Mildly townie on Oats when I go back and look. Couldn't remember if it was him or WoS who made a certain comment.
I slightly like this set of posts:On September 30 2013 01:29 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 01:03 Grackaroni wrote:
Palmar's town reads are not bad. Don't really agree with BH/Pandain. Who says this about a scumread? On September 30 2013 01:40 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 01:32 Grackaroni wrote:On September 30 2013 01:29 Oatsmaster wrote:On September 30 2013 01:03 Grackaroni wrote:
Palmar's town reads are not bad. Don't really agree with BH/Pandain. Who says this about a scumread? If Palmar is scum he only has 2 teammates. I don't think it's a problem that I agree with a lot of the people he lists as town. Thats not the point. Its hard for me to explain. But its really odd. Just because they point out something neat, show that he's actually reading. There are paranoid counterpoints to that but for now I'm going to read that in a townie way and not in a hyper-observant about someone calling out scumbuddy way.
Also still really just like this post:On October 02 2013 23:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
If Im FT in the position he is in, I would totally take a scumshot because it means someone better than me doesnt get shot. It's part joking, probably part not, and just a general throwaway post but one that, in my head, is an uncomfortable post for scum to make or something they don't automatically think of.
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On October 04 2013 08:39 Pandain wrote:
I had a town read on VE through his posts.
I can't believe austin you still don't see how scummy Vayne has been with absolutely shit votes with no follow-up, huge set-up speculation which honestly can't be done unless you have inside knowledge, backtracks, no actual content despite 8 fucking pages of filter , and the such.
How can you think he's objectively a better lynch then a Palmar who honestly I think might just be retarded. Call it woman's intuition?
Palmar's not retarded, and I start to worry about players who have been around a long time, start with a somewhat townie D1, and then tail off. Even if he's retarded, he can still be scum. Being retarded doesn't guarantee you a green or blue PM.
VA is speculating a good bit after getting a scumread on him in part because of speculation. I know when I've been scum I've been scared off of certain actions when I did something and a townie called it scummy, I wanted to stop doing that. Continuing to speculate over NKs feels townie to me because of that, although not a boatload if this is actually his normal MO in all games.
He's just not as scumtastic as other folks to me right now. I know he's doing some things that aren't helping town, but almost ALL of us are doing that, and I feel like we can poke around a level deeper than that.
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On October 04 2013 08:39 Pandain wrote:
Palmar besides that has been playing as town, I don't think he's as lurkery as you think. I don't mean to imply he's the lurkiest lurker that ever did lurk.
But his posting is on subjects that I don't think matter. He's got a boatload of posts today on his VOTE yesterday. Palmar shouldn't care about his vote yesterday. Mislynches happen. Vote switches happen. He's not even getting serious votes or anything for it. But he spends forever going over the ins and outs of voting and bovine reproduction or whatever else. His activity, in cases like that, is about subjects that just don't matter as far as scumhunting goes.
Plus again. You both have Pa- names. Someone gots to go.
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The policy reasons always suck to actually use, but they exist for a reason.
Also, it's not pure policy. I just disagree here, because I don't think the activity Palmar has shown has done much to help town. A lot of his posts are just posts to me, they don't push or pull or DO, and he's happy to just sit back and let today happen, meaning basically a day and a half of lynches that Palmar doesn't care about.
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On October 04 2013 08:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
Give me some votes guys, I need incentive to do something in this game. Whether you actually want to lynch me or not, the pro-town thing is to put votes on me until I contribute something. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter. On October 04 2013 08:37 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2013 08:35 VisceraEyes wrote:
Give me some votes guys, I need incentive to do something in this game. Whether you actually want to lynch me or not, the pro-town thing is to put votes on me until I contribute something. Thanks for your cooperation in this matter. You're gonna need to take a number. VE I don't care if you're not motivated, give me something...neat. A weird kooky read. A post that really caught your attention but you don't know what to do with it. On October 04 2013 08:39 VisceraEyes wrote:I did, he flipped cop  I'm working on it austin just bear with me. Resuing
![[image loading]](http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h116/austinmcc11/63a1d370-0877-4099-a18c-29bec10fdcd4.jpg)
VE. This bear wants to CONSUME YOUR SOUL. I don't know what kind of motivation votes give you, but THIS IS YOUR SOUL. ABOUT TO BE CONSUMED BY A BEAR.
I got your coded message. I understand that bear crumb. I know you're under attack right now. And I promise, we can PROBABLY still save your soul.
But you're gonna have to help us out here. We're the town VE. We're stuck in nasty-ass detroit (as best I can tell?). There are soul-eating bears. It's dark, and it's detroit, and there are soul-eating bears VE. Shit's serious.
So you're going to need to post some thoughts. Some musings. People are DYING, VE. They are DYING. And a bear is going to eat your soul. I don't know if I can reinforce these things strongly enough.
I know there's a bear with you. But you're only going to last so long. The bear will win if you don't post.
The bear will win.
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On October 04 2013 10:42 VisceraEyes wrote:Checklist for tonight: - Filter FT/Pandain
- Filter Vayne *shudder*
- Make a sammich
Play GTAV- Determine if a better lynch exists outside of FT/Vayne
Wish me luck peoples. ![[image loading]](http://0-media-collegehumor.cvcdn.com/a/5/collegehumor.8858b2da77efc57fd05c30b5c44fb6d5.jpg)
They lost their jobs. They lost their book deal. They're adrift now, VE. Adrift in this sea we call life.
And they're hungry. Oh, so very hungry. Can you hear them?
Can you hear them in the night?
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Nope, didn't comment on them.
On October 04 2013 10:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Yeah he doesn't play much anymore. :/
Like...my town read on him is waning with every moment that he's not calling for my head on a platter. He's just kinda been brushing the idea of lynching VE into the thread...town Palmar usually lays the HAMMER DOWN on a VE that isn't contributing because when we played together a lot that was my MO as town. On October 04 2013 10:35 VisceraEyes wrote:Also he hasn't called me bad, OR stupid. I think he thinks I'm both...suggesting manipulation.
But there's not a lot I can comment on. All that says is that for you-specific reasons, you're doubting your earlier town read.
You think town Palmar would do x.
But you're not out and calling him scum, just less townie, and potentially trying to manipulate you.
I'm not gonna lynch him based on that. I'm not gonna NOT lynch him based on that. And that doesn't do anything for how I read you.
So, in a nicest way to say it, it's not useful to me. Maybe it's a stepping-stone for you to reread Palmar or your interactions with him, although Palmar wasn't on your list.
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On October 04 2013 11:16 VisceraEyes wrote:
You've been issuing these non-defense-defenses of Palmar most of the game...now your vote is on him. Like...I don't know, I just thought there would be more you'd have to say on the guy your vote is on. But whatever, I'll just take it for what I assume it is: your way of telling me "not good enough". Let's go with this. You thought he was town, that's waning.
Here are some specifics that I'm worried about
- He ain't dead. It's dumb but it's true.
- Was somewhat active/engaged early. Looking through his filter earlier I found a nice, fat reads post + Show Spoiler +On September 30 2013 00:40 Palmar wrote:
Probably Town
Koshi - Probably town, if scum he played getting hit by the RNG pretty well.
VisceraEyes - Keep an eye out on how much of a leadership role he takes. He was very townie early on in day 1, but I'm somewhat unsure how much of a role he truly played in the yamato lynch. I need to re-read. If he starts fading into the background reconsider, but for now town.
Oatsmaster - Confrontational and an asshole, completely useless too, so that kinda fits him being town
Blazinghand - Probably town, needs to be more in the forefront.
WaveofShadow - Too active, too free-flowing and engages easily with people to be scum.
Pandain - His case was ok. If he keeps trying he's town. Pandain is awful as scum anyway so he'll fuck up sooner or later if he is.
Haven't analysed/read at all:
Chairman Ray
Mr. Cheesecake
VayneAuthority
austinmcc
Only done a quick read/null:
strongandbig - if I die he's less likely (only slightly) to be scum (unlikely his scumteam would shoot me after he spends time creating a case on me), but I have no idea really, I think his case was wrong because of bads, not because of malicious.
ShiaoPi - One of the best candidates for re-reading. He hasn't done anything worth noting all game, at least that I noticed. I'm going to look into him when I have time.
raynpelikoneet - Don't really know.
Grackaroni - Again, read some, no conclusion
Scummy people
hiro protagonist - His start was awfully conservative. I still haven't spent time looking at his later posts, but yeah.
RebirthOfLeGenD - Said he'd catch up, didn't.
FirmTofu - See my earlier analysis. Haven't paid attention to him since.
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please don't take this list as gospel, my reads on night 1 (especially with a weekend start) are okay, but not great. I'm prety sure most of the scum is in my null/scum zone, but if someone does something stupid, don't let the come back and go "BUT PALMAR SAID I WAS TOWN".
Anyway, I won't have time to play much today. Writing this in case I can't be back before deadline.
- He's got the early argument with rayn. Lots of posts concerning rayn's worry over yamato calling palmar town. Getting on rayn's case for a townread on oats at the time. Jumps on an inconsistency, pokes at it, posts a bunch. Honestly, when I'm reading N1 or most of D2, it's still just Palmar talking to rayn about why rayn is dumb/wrong/whatever. He's very very active when it comes to this one issue, and otherwise just flits about a bit. Basically, a wise man once summed up my feeling on the rayn posts like thisOn October 02 2013 00:34 Palmar wrote:
Both.
He's not mafia for being bad, he's mafia for not doing anything outside of arguing about points like the one we just argued about.
- He doesn't care about the lynch at all on D2. He calls FT scum, was on him D1 and stays on him D2. All well and good. His only post on SP really is On September 30 2013 19:24 Palmar wrote:
I just read again through Shiaopi's filter, he's not a bad lynch either, he's done almost nothing. I would like to point out that along with Grack, he helped push suspicion off FT.
Shiaopi do you still think FT is town, do you think his reasons for wanting to lynch you are legit? And why do you think VE is scum? before the switch. The switch, at least from Palmar's posting, is purely rayn-based.
- Palmar's reactions to the flip, immediately, look like he's doing something.On October 02 2013 06:10 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 06:07 VisceraEyes wrote:On October 02 2013 06:00 Palmar wrote:
VE am I scum? I don't think so. You seem more invested than I'd expect as scum. I haven't really disagreed with your scumreads, though admittedly I may be biased because I'm not one of them (as far as I know). Why? Mostly because I don't know if you are. Could you like spam a bit and explain your reads through the game. Additionally, I think I'm waffling on rayn being scum based on what just happened here. I'm not entirely sure. On October 02 2013 06:12 Palmar wrote:
which would open other doors for scum, for example SnB and the replacements, both I have mostly ignored lately. Also Oats was really passive in the shitstorm between me and rayn.
Look at those posts. I voted a dude. The dude was town. Now I need to rethink things, my read on rayn...which then messes with my reads on other people. And I'm trying ever so hard to read you VE. How can I hold all these reads I'm trying to make?
- After returning to thread, we get another sizeable post + Show Spoiler +On October 02 2013 22:59 Palmar wrote:
I really don't know anymore.
A few quick thoughts.
I'm less sure in my early townreads and more sure in my later ones. Especially I think Koshi, Chairman Ray and Grack are very unlikely scum. VE, Oats, Pandain, WoS more likely than before (but still nowhere near lynch territory, let's say I'm leaning town on them.
A quick note on WoS, for someone that was willing to enter an argument early in the game about his proficiency at mafia I don't feel like he is having the influence his own perception of his skill should warrant. If you think you're so good why aren't you trying to lead us?
I have still to read CC and the replacements through. I'm assuming at least one if not two scum in there because that's kind of what I do, I always ignore the lay-low scum.
SnB still hasn't done jack shit, good candidate for lynching tomorrow. I still think Hiro's entrance into the thread was really awkward and he's not doing much at all, another good lynch.
Rayn is a bit of a question mark, he's super reckless (to the point of being willing to die just to make a point, I don't know if he anticipated no one going along with it, or if he just doesn't care). He's doing stupid things, not taking an active stance about anything for the most part except me. I don't really know if all this makes him ballsy scum or reckless town, in both cases he's being very useless.
Vayne is another question mark. He's being an asshole about being awful at the game. I have no idea why. He also indicated he's been playing this a long time, which is important because he would probably be pretty towny if he was new to mafia.
FT remains a good lynch.
- And that's it. He just posts a bunch about the switch and why he totally wants FT dead and why he switched cuz of Rayn and etc. It's the bolded quote above. He's mafia for not doing anything outside of just picking these dinky little fights. He's not fighting about someone being scum or town. He's just goading rayn and continuing to post about things that don't actually matter because they're not scumhunting. His activity, his major points of activity for the last 96+ hours, has nothing to do with scumhunting. He's just posting, occasionally dropping mushy lists of reads that are never actually solid.
VE, has Palmar done anything between D2 and D3 to make you <3 him? Do you actually get the feeling that he IS trying to read you? Because I'm not getting a townie vibe from anything he's done recently.
(I dunno if I soft-defended him before, maybe? I don't think I've said too much about him until now, but go hunting! Hunt hunt! I think he should totally be lynched though)
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Oh nm, had to look at my own filter. I didn't like snb and grack's reasons for calling him out and totes called him town.
I do like him as a lynch now, though. It may not be as useful a thing to look for as I think, but veteran-ish players who are scum seem to often look townie on D1 and then tail off, can't keep it going. This fits that pattern. grack was calling him out for wishy-washy stuff, but at this point he's not even being wishy-washy anymore.
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On October 04 2013 11:43 VisceraEyes wrote:No he hasn't. But since he was a townread of mine and you're voting to lynch him (and seem to mean it in spite of not explicitly thinking he's scum) I'm gonna reread the guy and see if I missed anything. We were supposed to do great things together Now neither of us are doing great things and some low-life beat-cop is taking all our glory. The vote means I think he's scum.
Just took me an extra day.
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On October 04 2013 11:44 Pandain wrote:
Austin if you want to convince people, convince me that Palmer is a better choice then Vayne. For one, you also seem to think he's scumOn October 03 2013 08:17 Pandain wrote:
Rayn, Palmer, Vayne, Solstice, VE.
There you go scum
Mainly though, it's a couple things.
As far as VA goes- He has been speculating about NKs and who might have done what. I disagree though that he appears to have extra knowledge. In my head, he's mostly just bullshitting. We know we only had 1 kill last night, and nobody else claimed to be shot. So we expected 3 KP, we had three deaths, we still have nobody claiming to have been shot /w vest. Essentially, you're accusing him of KNOWING who killed who for what reasons, and posting it in thread. Can you give me even 1/2 a reason why scum would post why they NKed some dude in the thread (apart from WIFOM)? I know you said you focused on night actions in a game you played, and, at least in my head, you're overvaluing that. It happened once, but it's also happened that people have tried to figure out why folks got NKed and NOT been scum.
- In this post - + Show Spoiler +
On October 03 2013 13:06 Pandain wrote:You could try and vote me but you'd probably be scum then as you have no justification. I refuse to be shut down and believe FT is town. He always plays like this. Your reasons are weak. Besides his awful vote Palmar has been pretty town with contributions and logical posts. It's just suddenly he threw a sudden wrench and voted Shiao despite clearer suspicions on FT just to "prove Rayn wrong." Vayne is scummy for more reasons and it is more conclusive. That is the weirdest statement to remember of all time that someone always walks themselves through night actions I think you are trying to make justifications to not vote Vayne which are really weak. Let me approach it in several different ways: 1. Vayne will always end up becoming a hassle for town later as it is really hard to tell his alignment. In fact my only good read is that he's focusing too much on role actions and is revealing more information then town has. Failing this lynch, he will always be up for a lynch later which given this game scum will probably force anyway if Vayne is town. Better to get him out of the way. 2. Vayne is clearly not blue so that's a good thing. 3. Vayne has asked not to be checked despite before saying check me Show nested quote +On September 30 2013 07:41 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 30 2013 07:39 Pandain wrote:
Vayne is probably scum. Also a generally good shot. I would suggest cops to shoot him, as it's hard to differentiate his town and scum play.
He's clearly reading due to what he's saying but he's acting like he doesn't give a shit.
Town reads are Cheesecake and SnB.
If Palmar doesn't push today, he's probably scum. I welcome the cops shooting me, it confirms town members and I have no reason to use my vest so it will refund the bullet. go for it. 5. If you like OMGUS Show nested quote +On October 02 2013 01:57 VayneAuthority wrote:
I am not sold on FT or SnB but the majority of the list you just posted besides that is scum Heavily contrasts with him today which, based on meta analysis of SnB flipping scum, is associative with FT being scum. Poor reason to change.
I don't disagree that there's some nothing in his filter. I don't disagree with the stuff you brought up about him making a mushy read on Hiro Pro (I commented on that yesterday, and I DO find that scummy). But I think a couple of the specific items that turbo-charged your VA lynching machine today aren't what you make them out to be. Either aren't as scummy as you make them out to be, or are...are the sort of things you find/push when you think a person is scum already. The shoot me no don't shoot me doesn't matter, imo, and is just the kind of thing you highlight when you already want to lynch someone.
My Palmar thoughts are in the post above. I think that, based on the dropoff in activity/caring, and how the only real care posts are these lists of reads that look decent but actually aren't particularly insightful/revealing upon 2nd, 3rd, 4th read, he's a better lynch. I'm more sure of his scumminess.
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I think solstice is a person to keep tabs on but shouldn't be today's lynch. He was relatively lighthearted last night while I was partway pooping on him.
I'm headed to bed soon, but around for a bit to keep chatting.
Had typed that solstice would make a good cop check, went to go look at the OP again. We really need to look at Hiro's reads hard, because not only was he town but he was masoned with another townie AND they had bonus information.
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On October 02 2013 04:57 hiro protagonist wrote:
real quick before the deadline.
Most likely town: VE, WoS, Grack, Koshi, austin
null: Palmer, ryan, VA, CR.
People I once thought as town, but are now slightly scummy: SaB, Panda, Oats
Scummy: Shiao... damn, doin up this list makes me realize how little other strong scum reads I had...
There's not oodles, a lot of the recent stuff was actually him pushing SP and promising to catch up
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Even if VA is scum AND palmar is scum, there are more.
Better to be working towards finding them than you guys going back and forth.
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On October 04 2013 12:33 Pandain wrote:
The problem is, and I disagree with Austin here, is that we don't know what cops did and what scum did. Maybe scum shot SnB, maybe cops did with the precision bullet. Maybe scum didn't double save day one and instead used bullet vest or frame.
You made assumptions too fast and certain for my liking when there are too many variables and are probably the scum team that didn't shoot BH(so you know if a double save happened and made the conclusion but failed to realize we don't know that). We don't know what happened.
But nobody has claimed to have been shot and survived, and I don't THINK that scum would be passing up KP early on for other stuff. That's pure assumption, but your goal as scum is to kill townies. Unless those other powers help you kill townies, you probably just shoot.
Powers honestly seem like nice ways to confuse us later in the game, by spending the bonus KP from killing cops or other team, and ways to keep cops honest and prevent them from claiming in thread and calling their actions, prevent them from masoning people and revealing plans to masoned dudes with no repurcussions (if you mason scum, they can mess with your results/actions/whatever).
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On October 05 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Except Pandain, there is a connection between him and SnB.
SnB defended FT quite a bit in FT -- ShiaoPi lynch last day. And scum only defend scumbuddies! They never defend townies.
On October 05 2013 00:14 Palmar wrote:
btw, planning a voteswing is usually an awful idea. I know I should probably not be arguing this as said voteswing most likely would be onto me, but if I'm FT and reading this thread right now, I just don't post anything, hope town voteswings and post my vote right at the deadline. He's dead anyway and it stops town from usefulness for another cycle.
He has already posted this cycle, so he is very much aware of this game. Trying not to play the "toss everything Palmar says on the scummy pile" game, but this statement is just lazy/bad/anti-town.
I guarantee you FT doesn't have magical powers where his being alive prevents people from posting, from reading, from doing anything. If he survives another 18,000 nights, we'll all have the capacity to read and post.
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EPT
