EPTTentative, depending on whether or not it looks like Aperture is starting soon. I love minis, though, so I've gotta try it ^^
Persona 4 Mini Mafia
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mkfuba07
United States1151 Posts
Tentative, depending on whether or not it looks like Aperture is starting soon. I love minis, though, so I've gotta try it ^^ | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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(those of you who've never played with me before, this is the kind of wishy-washiness that you should expect from me  )Anyway, I'm so excited to play again!! | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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On August 21 2013 03:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: You can lynch me on D1 if a vig shoots WoS and i am wrong. srsly! This... bothers me. So as a townie, you're suggesting that we lynch you D1 if a vig shoots another townie today? How is that in any way good for town? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 21 2013 03:39 Sn0_Man wrote: He is quite certain that he will be killed by scum tonight. So he considers his life forfeit and is pushing his reads while he can. You can't lynch what's already been shot by mafia. In any case, he's right about one thing. I'm gonna read some filters after I hop in the shower really quick. Anyone else know what made DP and rayn find Rainbows 100% mafia? | ||
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mkfuba07
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Hot/cold? What are your thoughts on Rainbows? | ||
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mkfuba07
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mkfuba07
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I'm not really convinced of either WoS or rayn being scum. I answered WoS's question the way I did because he seemed to be suggesting that something big was coming, which in my mind always means some kind of reveal. I'm not sure what that could be, other than a roleclaim. Thus the theory was born. It feels like their cases against each other can be summed up as "town WoS didn't feel like answering a question" and "town rayn got annoyed that WoS didn't answer his question". I can certainly see how each case could describe the other person's actions as though they're scum, but I don't really see why the town explanation isn't simpler. As it is now, I'd probably guess both as town due to how many times I've seen this kind of townie v. townie fighting D1. And the fact that neither wagon (even though we haven't really started voting yet) picked up a whole lot of steam throughout the night kind of makes me think I'm right. I guess we'll see more when D1 actually starts. The only person I've actually had reasonably strong scum feelings for this game has been Rainbows. It started when both rayn and DP claimed to have seen something that made them sure he was scum, at a time when it seemed to me as though rayn and DP were likely different alignments themselves. This may have skewed my view towards him too strongly towards scum, but I think it could still be right. I looked into his filter and found this post: On August 21 2013 01:20 Rainbows wrote: All I've seen is a bunch of nonsense about survivor/miller claiming, a real claim, and a case on WoS. From the impression I get, Darthpunk seems to be driving the potential lynch on Koshi. Sn0_man seems to +1 the idea and just roll with it. DP is much more vindictive about the issue, which hopefully means he's town as well. The idea that he is 'all-in' on WoS right now seems like too obvious the contradiction for scum to make. TL;DR -- people that talk a lot, hopefully they flip town. The bolded section makes me feel like he *knows* that Koshi is green. It seems like he knows those who are pushing Koshi will look guilty in the event of his lynch. It's as though he's saying, "even though DP lynched Koshi, the push seemed genuine so he's probably town," but phrased before the fact. When I first found this I felt so sure that I was right, but I later realized that he could just be really, really sure that Koshi is town, and finds it scummy that anyone would push him when that's so obvious. This made me doubt my read. But on the other hand, he still suggests that Koshi is a viable vig shot (in the nested quotes above), which is at odds with a "definitely town" read. Ultimately, he seems to know more than he should and when I try to explain his post from a town perspective I find contradictions. Anyone think I'm way off? And rayn + DP: What was the evidence that you're now unsure of? + Show Spoiler + Good night! | ||
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mkfuba07
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And I've already said who I think is scum in the post that you didn't read. | ||
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mkfuba07
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rayn: What was the thing you and DP both supposedly saw regarding Rainbows? He's the only one I feel pretty scummy about, and the fact that he hasn't posted in over a day isn't helping his case imo. I'll take a look at sn0 now. I've been really internally wishy-washy about him. He was on my possible scum list earlier N0, but I got a "scum wouldn't say that" vibe from some of his posts that kinda dropped him back to null. I should take better notes, since my memory doesn't really cut it in most cases :S As far as DP being the NK is concerned, the most we should take from it is that everything he said was honest. If we try to wifom whether or not scum wanted us to pursue his scumreads and trust his townreads, then we're doing ourselves a disservice. That being said, I generally agreed with his given reads except for kush and sn0, who I'm much more null on. @Vayne: Eh, I see where you're coming from, but DP probably was one of the top town players in the game. He just kinda makes sense as a NK. | ||
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On August 22 2013 06:08 VayneAuthority wrote: Not something worth revealing yet. Helps scum more than it helps town atm. @mkfuba in roulette you said you like to play a defensive game as town. Why in this game do you feel the need to be very aggressive? your play resembles basterd mini a lot more than roulette right now so I was just wondering what's going on. I'm being very aggressive? o.O I don't really know what to tell you. I guess I'm a little bored, and since rainbows is my only reasonably confident scumread I don't want him fading into the background without people telling me why they're no longer suspicious of him. N0 basically just added an extra 24 hours to D1 to me, and I don't feel like there's much to show for it. What is it that I'm doing that's so aggressive, if I may ask? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 22 2013 06:21 raynpelikoneet wrote: mkfuba, this post and importantly these parts of it. First bold; That's the definition of flip flopping. Second bold; Rainbows says WoS is scummy because of what i wrote in my case. But he still does not have opinion on it? Also he falls into the category "misread rayn's case". Speaking of which, Fuba. You do fall into the same category aswell. Why? Is it really so that DarthPunk and Koshi are the only people bright enough to be able to read what i wrote about WoS in the first place? Another thing that bothers me is this post: This is what i want explained Fuba. You started getting suspicious of Rainbows when me + DP called him scum at the same time, without knowing the reason. Why? You say at that time you thought me + DP are differing alignment. How does that make sense, based only on our accusation on Rainbows, that he is mafia? You surely thought that, which one of us was bussing and why would one of us do so? I'm pretty sure I understood your case - That town WoS would have explained himself when explicitly called out on it, while scum WoS would be content to just say "I did this before as town, and I'm doing it now as town" and leave it at that. But I actually don't even see why scum WoS would decide to mention silent N0 as a means of gaining towncred or something (which your scum scenario seems to imply) when he could have likely just played like himself and not drawn attention to himself in this way. The scenario just doesn't make sense to me. As far as that quote by me goes, I was explaining how I came to my conclusion. The answer to your first question is already explained in the quote itself. It felt to me as though you were on opposing sides up until that point, which made it strange that you both found what appeared to be the same scumslip at the same time. If you were both as sure as you seemed, then it made little sense for either of you to be scum. The most likely scenario was that two townies saw something that they strongly felt indicated scum, and posted about it at the same time. This didn't mean that Rainbows was scum, it just meant that two townies strongly felt that he was scum. I then read through his filter and came across that post that I've already explained my reasoning behind. As for your Rainbows evidence, how is not having an opinion on something flip-flopping? For me, flip-flopping is having one opinion, then having the opposite opinion for no explainable reason. And the second point is meh for me. Something can jump out at you without really swaying your read on someone. When Vayne pointed out kush's post, it certainly seemed strange to me, but it nevertheless had very little/no effect on my read of kush. And misreading a case doesn't mean someone's scum... I'm not sure what you're going for with that. What did Rainbows post that changed anything about the way you viewed this evidence, though? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 22 2013 07:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Fuba & Rainbows. Yeah i miused "flip flopping". I meant Rainbows talks about WoS case earlier but does not give any comment on it. He lists things that have happened in thread and then he did not comment on those happenings in any way, or told why they are dumb (if he thinks so). Rainbows, you said this: "If you're fishing for my read on WoS, your case seems rather meta reliant and I want to see his stance on things and a response. Nothing jumped out at me from the reading of the thread other than your post except his 'I didn't roll shadow" post." Correct me if i am wrong but with my reading comprehension the bolded part means "these are things i find out to be scummy from WoS", no? Fuba. Your case on Rainbows has not much in my opinion. I do not understand what you are saying in the paragraph you wrote after quoting his post. Actually Rainbow's points agains you from the very same paragraph make a hell lot more sense to me. It also does not help you you are asking other people if they think you are wrong or not. You are supposed to tell people why you are right in someone being mafia, not say things and ask if you are wrong. *shrugs* This is the only way I felt comfortable pushing Rainbows. If anything, me being unsure of myself is a town tell. I certainly felt like I was pushing stutters more confidently in Basterd than I am pushing Rainbows this game. Though at the same time, I was knowingly bussing my own scummate in that game, so they're not really the same scenario. Response to rainbows' case incoming~ | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 22 2013 06:48 Rainbows wrote: Back. Rereading, I still feel like Rayn and Koshi are both town. WoS feels town despite all of the facerolling him and Rayn are doing. Sn0 doesn't feel like a good lynch atm, because he has me flip flopping all over the place. Gut / head say scum but heart says town -- fuck. Knowing my alignment, DP was off on his read of me, and apparently realized it himself. If Sn0 and WoS are both town as well, then scum are easily sitting back and watching potential mislynches occur. I'm pretty sure mkfuba07 is mafia. His push on me feels like scum trying to lynch me, as opposed to a wrong townie. As such, this post will contain obligatory amounts of OMGUS. You have been warned. Mkfuba forwarding a mislynch 1) The premise for Fuba's case on me stems from the words of unconfirmed town. We now know that DP is town, and hopefully Rayn is as well. The way I see this: "Oh, hey, some town guys think Rainbows is mafia, so therefore I should push this mislynch. Rayn / DP will look bad after." Fuba does not try to find scum on his own, but rather piggyback off of other players in the thread. 2) These two sentences scream of waffling. Fuba knows I will flip town, and wants to set himself up for the "damn, really wasn't sure in the first place" sort of excuse. 3) Completely false information. He twists my words to justify his read. He says that my read on Koshi is "definitely town", like I know his alignment. In reality, I said that Koshi is "probably town" as in the miller claim. Probably. The miller claim is grounds for a vig shot at worst from town. 4) "CAN YOU PUSH THIS MISLYNCH PLEASE? I KNOW YOU GUYS WANTED TO PUSH RAINBOWS WHY AREN'T YOU GUYS DOING THAT?" Fuba also spends more of the post discussing his townreads on WoS/Rayn rather than on his suspicions of me, which I find terribly odd if he is truly town suspecting me as mafia. In addition, Fuba has done little else in the thread. Mafia love to tunnel one person into the ground at a time, piggybacking off of other's arguements as they go along. Fuba's goal so far this game has been to push my mislynch subtlety, vote, and /afk. This post is also lulzy: Wasting time / feigning contribution. Says he doesn't speculate on things he doesn't know but does that in the entire paragraph above. What does this post do to further towns goals, how is it a town-aligned post? His filter is short and mafia. ##Vote: Mkfuba07 Ahhh, defense. I'm in my element ^^ First of all, DP mentioned you as one of his two scumreads in his last post before dying. That means he didn't "realize he was off." Now for your numbered points: 1) Only correct in that it was them both finding what appeared to be the exact same scumread when they seemed to be mortal enemies that made me think they were likely town and on to something. If I was just going to piggyback, then why did I post this after both of them had already stated that they were unsure of their previous reasoning? And I'm reasonably sure that no one thought both rayn and DP were scum, which would mean I would be first in line for the chopping block if I actually thought you were a mislynch. 2) See my pre-game post about being wishy-washy. The fact remains that I ended my post with a "Rainbows is scum" theme, which is what I've stuck with despite everyone else apparently disappearing. 3) I'm not twisting any words. I'm making inferences based on things you have said. You say in the post I quoted that sn0 just +1's the Koshi wagon (implying, to me, that you think it's scummy), and that DP appears to be more vindictive about lynching Koshi, which you hope means he's town (I didn't notice this before, but you say "as well" here. Would you mind saying who you hope DP is town in addition to?). So, either you find Koshi to be incredibly likely town, or you actually know that he is town. Otherwise there is no reason to say these things, because you don't know the alignment of the person they're trying to lynch. Because of this, either you are scum, or you were near-certain that koshi was town. The fact that in the nested quote you suggest that he is a viable vig hit strongly contradicts a strong koshi town read, which left me with only scum Rainbows. 4) Uh, no. There's actually no way to respond to this because it's so stupid. They say you're 100% scum for reasons. They don't mention their reasons. They say they're less sure of reasons without mentioning them. THAT is flip-flopping. And in any case, I disagreed with all of the evidence that rayn eventually provided, so that kinda shreds your theory that I'm trying to get others to push you for me. Posting my thoughts on the most prevalent topic in the thread is in no way scummy. The fact that it was included in my post about you has *absolutely* no impact whatsoever to anything I've said about you. I really have no idea why you even mentioned it other than to add something else to the list of nonsense. You realize that nothing happened N0 other than WoS vs. rayn, right? The same thing you just a moment ago said I was suspicious for commenting on. Everything else didn't have much of an impact on me. As for the second quote, I'll repeat that there was nothing going on in the thread, and I was bored. WoS hinted at some big reveal, and I wanted to know what it was. I answered his question, hoping he would reveal it. I was not impressed, tbh. How is it lulzy? And there's a difference between making inferences based on peoples' actual posting and speculating on implied power roles. The former is a reasonable thing to do in a game of mafia. Based on what people say, you draw conclusions. I don't know how you play mafia if you don't understand that concept. Undisclosed power roles are completely different. Since roulette I try not to think about power roles as much, because until someone actually claims one it's all wifom. And now for my own point: I phrased things poorly in the first post you quoted, but you think my brilliant plan for this "mislynch" was to make it sound as completely obvious as possible that I was just piggybacking off of two random people? From the way you described it, what I basically said was "These two random people said something, and I agree with them because. Here's some "evidence" that I made up. Can everyone but me please lynch rainbows?" DP and rayn only led me to you, they were not the reason I found you scummy. Your own posts conflicting with themselves or implying knowledge you shouldn't have makes me find you scummy. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 22 2013 08:57 Rainbows wrote: So, Mkfuba, the only reason you think I'm scummy because: 1) I "know" Koshi is town somehow. 2) I want to Vig someone who I think might be town. First of all I don't know Koshi is town or else I wouldn't mind him being vigged n0. He claimed miller. I think it's true, but I might be wrong. It's a miller claim--there's a chance it's a fakeclaim. A fakeclaim like that at a lylo situation is just calling for scum to lynch him if he's really miller, or if he's scum completely dominate us. Vigilante's keep the wild cards out. Lurkers are wild cards, miller claims are wild cards. I find your lack of reasons and assumptions about my play bad. I find my inability to accurately describe my own thought processes bad =/ Anyway, as I sat here trying to spell it out as absolutely clearly as possible, I just kind of realized that the fact that I'm finding it so difficult to explain probably means I'm wrong. No one's understood it, so I'm probably overthinking it entirely. If you end up being scum then I'll be a bit upset with myself, but I'm just gonna drop it. ##Unvote | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 22 2013 09:49 geript wrote: I'd agree with you here but we had the scum bus of Dandel in Nuclear and fell for that so I can't be as sure on it. How do you feel about fuba no responding re: you twisting his words. It looked like you took some things out of context but he didn't do the usual "try to correct the issue" thing and that seemed weird to me. Wait, you're saying ***I*** didn't try to correct the issue? What do you think my whole fucking massive post was? I must be speaking a different fucking language or something. God fucking dammit. | ||
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On August 22 2013 09:57 geript wrote: Look the normal response to someone twisting your words is to straight up call them out for it, correct it and push them hardcore until you have a real solid read on them. Why do you think Rainbows is town since you unvoted him? For the record, just because someone unvotes someone else it doesn't mean they think they're town. I no longer had a reason to vote for him, so I removed my vote. It's possible Rainbows intentionally twisted my words, but it's equally likely that I was just shit at explaining it, or straight up wrong. This is confirmed by the fact that no one else agrees with me. I'm not going to spend another 7 hours (the amount of time I've already spent thinking about Rainbows today) beating a dead horse. It's going nowhere, and I'm tired of trying to validate myself, particularly after I've accepted that my idea was probably not valid in the first place. Gonna take a break and then read some filters. | ||
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mkfuba07
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Caught up in the thread, but definitely need to read filters to get scumreads down (yesterday was spent sleeping off a rather bitchy mood). I'm in bed, recovering from a dentist visit, so expect a new vote from me soon. Oh, and Koshi. Mufasa is the good guy in the Lion King :D | ||
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mkfuba07
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Hmmm, this game is tough... I've narrowed down a few people I believe are town, but none that I can say I feel confident are scum. @yamato: Have you played with vayne before? If so, does his play this game differ in any way from his previous games? | ||
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On August 23 2013 09:58 Sn0_Man wrote: We could lynch Vayne. He is one of the unholy 4. Are the unholy 4 scum, or people we're not lynching because they're hard to read? | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 23 2013 10:03 kushm4sta wrote: oats why are you still voting FT if rayne just gave him the hardest of hard defenses? seems pretty legit I can never tell when you're being sarcastic. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 23 2013 10:07 kushm4sta wrote: why do you think he unvoted sno for WoS then peaced?? wos is never gonna get lynched tonight It's really weird, and I can't think of a reason other than him actually being so convinced that WoS is scum that WoS not mentioning Onegu *really* tipped him over the edge. | ||
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That "consolidate" post from WoS is really weird, considering he's not voting for anyone himself and he didn't suggest someone to consolidate onto. It's also weird that he didn't tell those voting for sn0 to unvote him, considering he said a few posts prior that he was feeling better about him. | ||
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mkfuba07
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However, at this point I'd be willing to vote for WoS. He's done a bunch of weird little things that itched at me, but didn't really mean much alone. That consolidate post doesn't look like what I'd expect out of him as town. I would have expected him to kind of take charge like Rainbows has, but he basically just said "everyone vote for one person, and I'll be back later to see who it is!" I'm actually kind of warming up to Vayne's idea of 3p WoS, but at the very least I have serious doubts that he's town. ##Vote:WoS | ||
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mkfuba07
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You can ignore that part (and I'll ignore it when anyone tells me they're not going to ignore it). I'm not going through his entire filter to find every post that itched at my mind and struggle for hours to figure out what's weird about it. It was more of a generic statement to say "he's been bothering me for a while". And it's not that I'm not willing to put time into this game, it's the fact that I've spent about 90% of my day reading this game and I still have nothing but town reads to show for it. | ||
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mkfuba07
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I hate to just throw out excuses because it's shitty and unhelpful, but there's little more that I can say. Almost all of the evidence of scumminess I've seen in this game has been a coin flip in interpretation. I didn't see any strong scum slips, no strong scum mentality. A lot of the issues raised with people involved really weird-ass cases/comments, which I didn't see as more likely coming from scum. D1 has been really frustrating, and at this point I'm just eager to analyze some D1 interactions post-flip. Gonna get some sleep now, but I'll probably set my alarm for 2 hours or so before deadline. | ||
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mkfuba07
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In all honesty, WoS seems more like survivor than scum to me at this point. His play doesn't seem like he's trying to appear townie (as I imagine he would as scum), but like he was trying to be suspicious without being lynchworthy, and not helping town excessively while still appearing active. And he doesn't seem overly upset about being lynched, which one might expect from him after his survivor game in Basterd. If I remember correctly, he didn't particularly enjoy himself that game, and after rolling survivor again winning might seem like a futile prospect that he's not really willing to fight for. Problem is, I have no idea who I would vote for aside from him. sn0 seems active and invested (if he is scum, will probably be easy to catch as time goes on), FT is supposedly 100% town according to rayn (whose judgement I'm trusting for the moment due to my read on him), crazo is new (feel like it's a waste of a lynch, but possibly a fine vig shot depending on his activity N1), vayne is an enigma, and I'm just kind of mentally shrugging at onegu, rainbows, and johnny. Yamato... I could probably get behind a yamato lynch. I can't think of much contribution from him this game. I think he called me smart once and I've just kind of ignored him since because I'm a narcissist =/ Everyone else I'm at least leaning town on. I'm probably going to stick with WoS either way. Interactions with him regardless of his flip will give a lot of information to work with, and we'll be able to move off of him as a topic of discussion (kind of a shitty reason, but I've felt bogged down in it for the whole game). Oh, and if he was parity cop he would probably claim his role instead of just accepting his fate. Unless he's just so mad at all of us that he's just letting himself get mislynched, I'd go as far as to say it's impossible for him to be cop. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 23 2013 19:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: If this is true he is playing against his wincon and deserves to be lynched anyways. Oh, I agree (for the most part). It's just that that's the only situation I could see him actually being cop, and I think he'd pass the "dick move test" in that case (I can't remember if that's what the test was called, but you know what I mean XD). | ||
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Fuck =/ | ||
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On August 23 2013 20:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: yamato and snoman are mafia. mkfuba knows too much. What is is that I know too much about? | ||
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On August 23 2013 20:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: all of it. lol k | ||
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Also, If a self-aware miller is framed, what alignment do they show up as for parity checks? | ||
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On August 23 2013 22:22 Oatsmaster wrote: oh no wait op parity cops. Yeah, I realized that like 20 minutes before the day ended XD | ||
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On August 23 2013 22:18 kushm4sta wrote: Hang on we are entering wifom city... The problem is that since koshi retardardedly claimed he was obviously targeted by the mafia framer. Therefore they are both town probably. What makes this obvious? You seem far more certain than I am... | ||
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On August 23 2013 22:52 kushm4sta wrote: fuba pretend you are the mafia framer. who are you targeting? I would likely frame Koshi, if I know that he's definitely the SAM. | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 23 2013 23:00 Koshi wrote: If there is a normal cop you would never frame me right? If there's a normal cop there's no reason for him to check you. You've told him you'll show up red to checks either way. | ||
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(Phone posting for a bit. Interwebs getting installed :D) | ||
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On August 24 2013 03:31 FirmTofu wrote: No, I don't think this makes rayn scum. If anything, it proves that the parity check was essentially useless because there are so many possibilities with immeasurable probabilities. Oh hey, the conclusion that I pretty much came to when this started! | ||
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mkfuba07
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On August 24 2013 03:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: If mafia has no GF Koshi is a perfect frame target. No sane normal cop would ever check a miller. On the other hand if they frame Koshi and a parity cop checks him, EVERY FUCKING CHECK COMES BACK NON- TRUE. Every town comes back "mafia, every mafia comes back "town". It makes perfect sense to frame Koshi. I've said this multiple times and absolutely no one agrees with me =/ | ||
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mkfuba07
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@Onegu: Don't you find it incredibly dangerous to fakeclaim a named role, which is typically claimed immediately if it exists, before everyone in the game has even posted? Any of the remaining people could have been the actual SAM. And if he was going to fakeclaim in that situation, then why wait to claim instead of doing it earlier? | ||
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mkfuba07
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@Onegu: When you say "town" do you mean SAM, or a VT who is decidedly not SAM? I'd agree that random VTs would never claim SAM, because that's 100% nonsensical. There's absolutely no reason for it. Given the situation this game, where Koshi claimed before everyone else in the thread posted, do you think it's more likely that he is scum? @FT: First of all, if you're SAM and someone counter-claims you, then they're scum. You've just gotten a 1-for-1 trade (at worst). Pretty good deal. Second, if you are town and know that you will show red to cop checks, you should tell town that. It avoids the really shitty situation where someone checks you, you come up red, and THEN claim SAM. I've actually never been in a game where someone has said it doesn't make sense to claim when you're SAM, so I'm really confused as to why that idea seems so prevalent this game. | ||
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On August 24 2013 15:47 FirmTofu wrote: @mkfuba I don't like the fact that you're content watching everyone argue while you ask a few questions here and there from the sidelines. The apathy is strong with you. Care to jump into the action? What are your thoughts on the Rayn/Koshi situation? Who do you think is our best lynch for Day 2? My thoughts on the rayn/koshi situation are that anyone saying rayn is definitely scum is suspicious. Especially when they emphasize the red check more than actual evidence. I generally agree with Oats (I believe) when he said that scum rarely so diehard-ly push for a mislynch. As for Koshi, I've had him set as town shortly after he claimed SAM. It really makes no sense for him to have claimed it at that time as scum. They would have needed to be really sure there was no SAM in the game, as well as have strong fears of Koshi being checked that night (otherwise the only impact would be to draw attention to himself). It's all too much risk for too little reward. As far as day 2 lynches are concerned, I'm not sure. I imagine I'll have some idea around 4 hours from now. | ||
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On August 23 2013 10:29 WaveofShadow wrote: Another thing I realized while looking through his massive fucking filter---he never ONCE considers the town perspective of anything I do. He immediately and ALWAYS fits everything I say and do into his 'WoS is scum' theories. This is shit play for town, and I truly and honestly believe that Rayn is purposefully tunneling me into oblivion because he believes that everyone will assume he is crazy and no scum would ever tunnel that hard. Again the BH example in CCM proves that completely untrue. This is the one possibility that's really bothering me. I've seen plenty of townies blindly pursue their 100% scumreads only to have them flip town, but I'm afraid of the possibility that it was all an act. However, while rayn's vote ended up on WoS at the end of the day, he did give his input on plenty of players, as well as behave exactly as I would have expected him to if he really strongly believed WoS was scum. Pretty sure I'm sticking with town rayn. | ||
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This is something I set my alarm to wake up and post last night, a minute before the flip: I'm Chie Satonaka, and I shot crazometer tonight. There's no breadcrumb or anything. I figure an extra death will speak for itself. Why crazometer? There's a wide array of reasons, many of which have nothing to do with how scummy I find him. It's more of a process of elimination, coupled with how dangerous I think he could be late game as either alignment. Once I eliminated all my town reads, all the people I'm unsure of but who might be viable scum nk targets if they're town, and people whose alignments I feel will be easier to figure out as time goes on, I was left with a really short list. I settled on crazometer because I don't think I'd ever be comfortable with any read on him this game. I know he doesn't seem to be a high-priority target at the moment. So many shots have been requested that I just kind of started zoning them out. I wasn't sure who to target based on scumminess, so I went with someone I felt would have the possibility of flipping scum as well as someone who would make me uncomfortable until endgame if he stayed alive. Ultimately, I'm playing it safe. I, again unfortunately, woke up at 6:45 my time, 45 minutes after the flip, with pain in my right eye because my contacts dried out or something. Checked the thread, saw crazo was scum, but rayn sugggested not claiming. Figured I could wait on the claim since it was already too late to be optimal (should have been posted right before the flip) and went to sleep off the aching in my eye. Now that I'm somewhat accused, I decided to just come out with it :D Unless someone has a counterclaim, at least one person in kush's list is wrong. I'd agree about lynching onegu and most likely yamato, though. I haven't liked Rainbows all that much, but that could just be indignation at being accused. Don't really need to have the entire scumteam pegged atm, though. | ||
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Kush, how do I, as scum, know there's no vigilante to counterclaim me? Or do you think I resorted to claiming out of fear because you caught the entire scumteam on D2 and we saw absolutely no way out of it other than to have one of us claim the nk? There's no evidence whatsoever of there being an SK. And there's nothing illegitimate about anything you quoted from my filter. According to you, I also distanced myself from vayne, rainbows, and johnny. I also didn't say to vig crazo only if he never speaks again, I said that based on how he performed N1 he might be a worthwhile vig shot. I clearly still felt that way because I actually shot him (another option was Onegu, but I changed my mind after sending in his name XD). As for the questions to crazo, FT, and onegu, I was trying to come to a final decision about who I would shoot, and the questions helped me do that. Does my question to crazo not indicate that I was looking into his filter? Early on he seemed to be really suspicious of geript. Once johnny switched in he just kind of forgot about him completely until I mentioned him. Rayn mentioned how scum tend to have trouble keeping their scumreads straight, and while WoS forgot to add onegu to a single list (not all that indicative of much), crazometer didn't mention geript/johnny at all after the switch (much more strange). As for FT and Onegu, Koshi wasn't a viable lynch for me since N0, and I found it weird that they hadn't come to the same conclusion. I found FT more townie than Onegu after the whole exchange, and found it particularly strange that VTs fakeclaiming was brought up, considering I can see no reason whatsoever to do such a thing. Ultimately I went with crazo because it felt better/safer than Onegu. Finally... On August 25 2013 08:21 kushm4sta wrote: Yup Rayne is sk. Scum just gonna rb him the rest of the game to hide his kp. If "we" knew rayn was sk, why would we let him shoot N1? | ||
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On August 25 2013 10:10 Koshi wrote: You guys don't have a RB sadly D: Unless you actually believe I'm scum, don't throw me in with them. | ||
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I don't think they do either, but in kush's hypothetical scenario we do. | ||
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On August 25 2013 10:14 Koshi wrote: I thought you were roleplaying D: I love the Lion King. Best Disney movie. Sorry, just getting frustrated because kush is apparently believing some complicated scum theory instead of the simple fact that I'm a vig who shot crazo. | ||
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On August 25 2013 10:16 kushm4sta wrote: why would you necessarily have a rb? for there to be no 2nd nk n0? other possibilities are scum and sk targeted the same person. scum targeted the SK and killed his extra life ... You're the one who said that we're keeping rayn!sk alive and roleblocked all game, not me. I'm simply asking why we didn't roleblock him N1 if that was the case. | ||
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On August 25 2013 10:16 johnnywup wrote: how come you say "they" the first half of the sentence but then switch to "we"? scumslip? No, not scumslip. First half of the sentence is me not being involved in a scumteam, second half is me being involved in kush's theoretical scumteam. I couldn't actually say "we" in the first half, nor "they" in the second half. Think before you post. | ||
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On August 25 2013 10:25 VayneAuthority wrote: why are we even entertaining the idea that 1/3rd of the game is anti-town, in all likelyhood we are just dealing with a 2 goon 1 godfather 1 framer setup. If there's any 3rd party it's more likely to be survivor. come at me bro ![[image loading]](http://massappeal.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/ShabbaLovermanGif.gif) Agree with all of this. | ||
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... Seriously? | ||
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On August 25 2013 11:32 yamato77 wrote: Just stop talking to him. On a related note, how's the life of a Serial Killer? Wait, now I'm the serial killer? This game keeps getting better and better. | ||
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I'm gonna wait for rayn to actually explain himself because there was no reason for him to do this as any alignment. @rayn: Because I believe him to be town. Why are you acting like a dumbass? | ||
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On August 25 2013 11:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: I HAVE A RED CHECK ON VAYNE. KOSHI AND YAmATO GO ALL IN IAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM NOTEREDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!! for no reason .... t_T kill after vayne, plz. On August 25 2013 11:11 raynpelikoneet wrote: vayne, koshi, yamato.. ggyo! Might have misread these posts. Who the hell knows. Six pages of absolutely nothing... | ||
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On August 25 2013 12:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why are you so fucking eager to tell people right öojalsfjölafsjöafsafslhnafsjafsjöl I just wanna lynch mkfuba. ? What do you mean? | ||
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On August 25 2013 15:22 kushm4sta wrote: This was a huge slip! Rayn says it immediately after the the D1 post when just DP was killed. As soon as 2 people point out that 1 death makes sense, he backtracks because he knows he just made a huge blunder. How did he blunder? | ||
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On August 22 2013 19:24 Onegu wrote: So I really dont like this post. First he soft attacks rayne for something that is not true. Rayne wasnt only focusing on WoS, he had 3 scumreads at this point. Yes most of his attention was on WoS but not all. Second he goes after craz for what I thought was a non serious post just saying he was going to sleep. The whole koshi thing I dont understand. PS I am feeling like shit, have taken more pain meds than Im supposed to and a little messed up. Soft defends crazo while trying to make geript look scummy for accusing him. On August 22 2013 19:32 Onegu wrote: This is terrible you just finish saying he most likely wouldnt play his first scum game this way. I am leaning scum on him but still bad reason for a vote. Appears to just be trying to discredit Koshi while still agreeing with his conclusion. If you believe sn0 is a mislynch (which is the way I'm leaning), this looks really sketchy. It's something to point at after sn0 flips and say, "Look at when I called him out for his scummy reasoning!" Onegu hasn't even given reasons of his own for finding sn0 scummy at this point. On August 23 2013 13:41 Onegu wrote: Ok Im here just been feeling really shitty, anyways I will consolidate my case for you kush I still want answers. ##UNVOTE Going over everything now Unvotes his main scumread while clearly stating that he still thinks he's scummy. On August 23 2013 14:07 Onegu wrote: I am ok with both, I agree with rayne they are scum together but for now I prefer sno. Will go over both filters for now for make sure. Sno looks worse at this point with his cases and votes, added to his n0 play. ##VOTE:sn0_man He's fine with lynching both, and places his vote on the one he hasn't mentioned other than to tell Koshi that he agrees sn0's scum. Says he'll go over their filters, allowing him to switch if needed. On August 24 2013 14:57 Onegu wrote: So Im in the hospital now so this will be brief, I should be out tomorrow but not sure. So the two biggest things that stuck out to me. Im not really up for a yamato lynch. Have to go over his filter again but why wouldnt we lynch the other scummy person in sn0? Second we need to take a closer look at firmtofu there are a few reasons for this. This post is a big reason, why would you ever ignore a red check? If we just ignore it there will always talk about it, or it will come back, makeing a even bigger waste of time. He should be vig shot or lynched otherwise town atmosphre will be completely destroyed. My scum games I am very active vayne made a post about its so much easier to play when you know everything. Firm knows this. I like this post alot makes me feel better about crazy. Anyway my pain meds are kicking in. So Im out for now. Doesn't want to lynch yamato -> we should lynch sn0 even though they're both scummy Also, we should look at FT because he doesn't think we should give the "same" check too much weight. I agree with FT here, since scum (likely) had more control over the situation than town did. Onegu says he should be killed in some way or town atmosphere will be completely destroyed (which is a strange thing to say because I'm pretty sure we kinda broke that ourselves). He doesn't even say that FT is scum, just that the atmosphere will suffer. The "case" he presents isn't "why FT is scummy and should be lynched", it's just "Why FT should be lynched". And again defends crazo, not stating a reason. On August 24 2013 15:13 Onegu wrote: Right so you think town would claim SAM? So unless you think town would claim SAM its the exact same as a red check. And crazy post I liked because it called your post out, gave his thoughts which I thought townie, and while I want him to scum hunt and follow up on that post it made me feel townie from him. He liked crazo's post for calling FT out, which doesn't indicate alignment. Then gives himself an out in the future, saying that he wants him to actually do townie things, but until then this non-alignment-indicative statement will suffice. Aside from his mentions of crazo, it's hard for me to outright explain Onegu's scumminess other than to say that most of his actions appear to come from a scum mindset. He agrees with thread sentiment, while always leaving himself a way out. He appeared pretty unconcerned with who, out of sn0 and WoS, would be lynched. Some things, like setting Koshi up to look suspicious in the event of a sn0 lynch, can't be confirmed until Onegu or sn0 actually flip, but given how I feel about Onegu, sn0, and Koshi, it is convincing for me. And ultimately, while I believe both Onegu and yamato could be scum, I'm more convinced that Onegu is, and Onegu's flip will shed more light on yamato than I believe yamato's will shed on Onegu. ##Vote: Onegu | ||
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I was finding him townier after I dropped my case on him and he started kind of leading town towards consolidation of a lynch. However, when you get to the end of his filter for that day you see these two quotes: On August 23 2013 13:18 Rainbows wrote: God be damned if we're going to last minute wagon on yamato/oats/craze or some shit, Kush. Because that is NOT happening. On August 23 2013 13:54 Rainbows wrote: Yeah, let's lynch the people scum are already voting for. Because that's how you win games. I'm placing my Fuba vote final. If you guys want to kill WoS/Sn0 have fun. I'm saying they smell like mislynches, Sn0 a bit less than WoS but whatever. ##Vote: MkFuba07 Going through his filter, this is pretty damn strange... He says to consolidate, he says we're not going to try a last-minute wagon on someone, and then leaves his vote on me at the end of the day. He never seems to actually respond to anything I've said (aside from my case on him earlier). I respond to him, and he ignores and keeps tunneling. Despite this, he very quickly accepts my claim. Kush had some valid, though incorrect, theories about how I could have been fakeclaiming/know about an SK as scum. I feel they're best discredited by things in my filter. If someone believed as strongly as Rainbows appeared to that I was scum, despite everything I'd already said, then I find it strange that that person would drop that scumread so easily without going through my filter (which I have no reason to believe Rainbows has read since his initial case on me). It makes more sense for someone to drop that case, after tunneling so hard, if he knows that I'm telling the truth, though. And as of his most recent posting, it's clear that he hasn't even been reading the thread. Then his vote jumped around between three different people in 20 minutes. Rayn->Yamato->Onegu. I'm not sure what can be gained from thinking about who he voted for (so much wifom), but based on the fact that he hasn't been reading and doesn't seem to care about who's lynched, I'd add him to the scum list. I think something made me think he's not likely to be scum with yamato, but I didn't note it down at the time and can't go through the filter again atm. Useless speculation anyway, until one of them flips. | ||
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And regardless of how many kills happen N2, I'm still the vigi. It's literally impossible for another NK to confirm me as scum. | ||
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That rayn nk was really unexpected. I'm gonna have to think about what that could mean for a bit. More useful thoughts (hopefully) when I'm awake in a few hours. | ||
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On August 28 2013 01:56 Koshi wrote: Yeah Rainbows is town. There are a couple posts he made that are 100% town. My good friend Mr Snowman, let's not use the fact that he tunneled townies make him scum. Because every fucking townie so far seem to have tunneled townies hardcore. (rayn, you, me) Could someone direct me to these 100% town posts? Also, can people take a look at geript/johnnywup's filter and tell me what they think? Particularly the bit leading up to WoS's lynch. Actually, their filters aren't that long, might as well read it all. | ||
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There are 4 people I believe are very likely town: myself, koshi, vayne, kush That leaves these 5: FT, Sn0, yamato, rainbows, johnnywup We're one mislynch away from mylo. 3 of the 5 are scum, one might be survivor. I'm actually looking at sn0 and johnny the most. Yamato might be third on the list, not sure (I feel like he just kind of exists). What I saw when I read johnny's filter around the time of the WoS lynch was (the possibility of) scum johnny trying to distance himself from a mislynch while still forwarding it (because I thought sn0 and WoS were both town) while at the same time emphasizing his desire to lynch crazo (who was scum, but was unlikely going to be lynched that day). There's some additional things, like saying WoS is scum for voting his town read to save himself (which sn0 did as well, for a time) when johnny himself said he though Sn0 and WoS were town, the fact that he believed my claim but immediately jumped on my "scumslip", his interaction with rayn after saying he thought he was scum seemed defensive and apologetic, even while calling him suspicious, and then his "consolidation" post on onegu felt really... oddly phrased? Like, it distinctly points out a scumteam, which he then points out he's not a part of, and says he wants to avoid them messing with the lynch. He says a lot to justify his voteswitch, when he could have said almost nothing. It feels like he knew he was switching to a mislynch, and wanted to preemptively counter suspicion. This is where it becomes somewhat of a pre-flip association case. I asked for other peoples' opinion of johnny so that some of my town reads could tell me if I was just seeing what I wanted to see or not. Sn0 commented on it, however, which is somewhat convenient in that if ANY townie would see what I was talking about regarding johnny and the WoS lynch, it would have been Sn0. He is the ONLY ONE who knows that he is town, so I would expect him to be suspicious of the fact that johnny said frequently that he wanted to lynch crazo, but ended up going along with town's plan of lynching between WoS and Sn0 (his town reads). Town Sn0 KNOWS that johnny passed on his scum read to vote between two townies. Based on suspicions he's shown earlier in the game, he should have been suspicious of this. But Sn0 says little about johnny, only that he gets town points for wanting to lynch crazo, and that his low contribution is concerning. "I think he's town, but he could be scum." Very easy for him to change his view on johnny if it looks like it could benefit him. In retrospect, it's not so much an association case as a case against Sn0, but the fact that Sn0 didn't react with suspicion of johnny makes me think they're in it together. ##Vote: Sn0_Man This makes me believe that they could easily be scum together. At the very least, I'm feeling pretty comfortable with a vote on Sn0_Man. Note that right around the time that johnny posts, asking if we're really stuck choosing between WoS and Sn0, Sn0 changes his vote to vayne from WoS. This later allows johnny to vote for WoS because he's voting for his townread, while Sn0 was doing that exact thing until johnny asked that question. One possible example of some behind-the-scenes scum cooperation. Thoughts? | ||
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And that is why my case doesn't revolve around you as scumbuddies. You are the one I find to be behaving questionably in this situation. There's some stuff I wrote above that I feel certainly implicates the two of you being scum together, but I'm more confident that your play feels off than his does. Also, you're more likely to be lynched today than him, anyway. | ||
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EBWOP: I know kush <3 But generally speaking, I'm not a town leader. Very passive. | ||
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On August 29 2013 05:24 Sn0_Man wrote: I was supposed to blame Johnny for *not* throwing away his vote but instead using it against one of what was fairly clearly the only 2 people who could be lynched? Pretty sure I was calling for consolidation fairly loudly and also I later called out some people for throwing away their vote D1. Also he voted for wos like ~7 other people including you so I wasn't gonna call him scum for that. -snip- When his reason for voting for that person is that WoS didn't push reads of his own and instead voted for his townread to save himself? Yes. It's the exact thing that Johnny did, except his life wasn't on the line. He emphasizes multiple times that he wants to vote for crazo, but doesn't make a case or try to push it. He just drops it to start deciding who, between two of his town reads, he wants to lynch. And since you are the only person who "knows" you're town, I'd expect you to be suspicious of him. And more evidence of them working together as a scumteam: Johnnywup seems to be begging for reasons to vote for WoS, but doesn't bring up Sn0 at all. Every post about Sn0 just makes me more sure about johnny XD I'm pretty much up for a lynch on either of them. | ||
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##Vote: johnnywup Fine, I can go for a johnny lynch over Sn0. Gonna join me kush, or gonna stick with yamato? Sn0, have your thoughts on johnny changed at all? And Vayne, if you're here, what are your current thoughts on johnny? | ||
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yamato: I'd say vote for johnny. Vayne: would you be willing to vote johnny? | ||
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On August 29 2013 04:43 VayneAuthority wrote: you don't have to consolidate, this isn't lylo/mylo. if scum tries anything it will be really obvious Does everyone feel that this is true? | ||
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On August 29 2013 10:30 johnnywup wrote: who should i vote for fuba? I don't want to die ----------- why are you tunneling me so hard?and yes vayne i'm busy school started so i'm not here throughout the day. It's not just you, it's you and Sn0_Man <3 | ||
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(router issues took away my last few hours of filter time XD) | ||
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##Vote: Sn0_Man All aboard the Sn0_Man train! Choooo chooooooo~ | ||
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Townies, do what you think is best. I'm probably getting to sleep soon. | ||
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##Vote: yamato77 Yamato was the other person on my "good lynch today" list, so I'm fine with that. He also has more of my town reads on him already. I've kind of reached a point where I'm fine with any of yamato/Sn0/johnny as long as we have a good majority on them. | ||
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I think it's probably because I was pushing for a Sn0 lynch, as well. That changed sometime last night, though I didn't mention it. Looked through (a bit of) his filter, and he genuinely seems to be trying to figure out the game. I could be wrong, but I don't want to lynch Sn0 today. I'm kinda going between FT and johnny atm. I don't think Vayne is scum. This "experiment" feels like something a bored town vayne would do, but a scum vayne wouldn't risk. I'm pretty sure I haven't played with a scum Vayne before, but this feels right. And, generally speaking, I've agreed with most of his reads this game. Johnny's vote for yamato seemed contrived to me. Actually, a lot of his filter feels like he's trying to get info out of town so he can either try to manipulate the voting or find a reason to be on the right wagon. Though I will say he seems to be bussing pretty consistently (though definitely not all that aggressively) through his entire filter. First crazo, then yamato. I'm worried that I'm really tunneling on him, but I just get this strong feeling of "correctness" when I read through johnny's filter as scum. Rainbows... He keeps pushing the thread when we seem to need it. And at the moment, he's thinking the same thing as me: either johnny or FT get lynched today. It's possible he knows those are mislynches, and as such could easily make that statement as scum, but they're in line with my current thoughts and he's semi-locked himself into voting either of them. -More thoughts coming later- | ||
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##Vote: FirmTofu | ||
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I'm still not sure who the last scum is, but I'll try to have some thoughts down before the daypost. | ||
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On September 03 2013 03:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: Ì have no fucking idea why Fuba did not shoot me. Damn that was ballsy! I seriously needed to be shot for having a red check on me and mislynching a cop. I'm pretty sure that I believed you were town regardless of the check, but my memory is bad enough that it could have just been because I didn't want to be the one that shot the most vocal townie N1. Onegu/crazometer felt like good vig shots regardless of whether they flipped town or scum. I originally sent in Onegu, but changed to crazo a while later. Kinda relieved, because D2 might have gone much differently with my claim showing up late if I'd shot a townie XD On September 03 2013 20:06 marvellosity wrote: yeah, kush was super good this game. Transparently town with his thought process AND arrived at the right answers. fuba was super-solid and grounded, with good reads too, and an excellent shot to boot. <3 I feel like kush was definitely MVP. I would have had us lynch WoS, Onegu, Sn0, and then probably johnny/yamato/FT. Or after mislynching three times I would have just ragequit. Or more like sadquit. Being wrong makes me really upset =/ On September 03 2013 21:04 Mocsta wrote: Must be all that practice from the voice games  *silence* On September 03 2013 21:07 marvellosity wrote: I'm taking the credit, I got him hooked on mafia ;p Yes, we have you to blame | ||
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