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Persona 4 Mini Mafia - Page 2

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 14:40 GMT
#333
On August 20 2013 23:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Why would Koshi freak out if we both were scum? Because DP is accusing him for nothing?


This guy next. INherent fucking guilt.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 14:42 GMT
#336
On August 20 2013 23:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 23:35 DarthPunk wrote:
The dissonance in your position does not change with semi-open or closed setups

On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In addition of possible self-aware millers we could have possible parity cop(s). Miller claims help them because they can possibly verify their checks at some point.


On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
it's not optimal to claim miller if you don't know the exact number of delf-aware millers.


On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
The setup was closed. We could not know if there was even gonna be any self-aware millers.


In a both a closed and semi open setup you do not even know if there are any millers nor their number. The set-up being semi-open vs closed does not absolve you of the contradiction


On May 13 2013 04:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
If you are town you should never be checked by a cop.



On May 13 2013 04:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:
In addition of possible self-aware millers we could have possible parity cop(s). Miller claims help them because they can possibly verify their checks at some point.


In both closed and semi-open setups there may be an investigative role/s. The fact that the set-up is semi-open does not change the fact that you said townies (and millers) should never be checked by a cop. In response to a similiar proposition that you are now using to justify your reversal.

Regardless of the set-up being semi-open or closed your explanation directly contradicts your previous belief that one should never claim miller when you don't know THE EXACT NUMBER of millers and that a townie and thus a miller SHOULD NEVER BE COP CHECKED.

Instead of giving a simple or reasonable explanation to your shift in policy you have provided bullshit reasons and excuses. And I want to know why.

Your case is debunked from Basterd mini mafia where i immediately asked all millers to claim (we knew there was 0-2 millers).


So why didn't you say you had learned in the first place?!?! without all these previous explanations.

The fucking backflips continue. Now you are altering your entire argument and the whole premise of your original explanation is quickly dismissed in favor of when that isn't flagrantly fallacious.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 14:45 GMT
#341
On August 20 2013 23:36 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 23:31 Oatsmaster wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:30 Koshi wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:27 Oatsmaster wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:26 Koshi wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:24 Koshi wrote:
Meh, dnu if I should claim now or later. Actually wanted to claim with my first post but decided to wait a bit.

But I am the self aware miller guy.

Why didnt you claim in your first post? Why did you decide to wait 4 hours?

I really didn't know if that was the best course of action.

So what changed your mind?
What were you thinking about? Why was it bad for you to claim in your first post and good for you to claim now?

Dnu, was thinking about it the entire time. But now seems like a good moment.

Answer the questions. There must be reasons.

"Dnu" not a reason.

I just wanted to wait a bit and now feels like a good time to claim. Also with the case on me I thought it would be more obvious. I should breadcrumb a bit better. Let's see:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 20:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Self-aware millers and survivor claim please before D1. If you don't we lynch you after if you do.

I was thinking the same.
Was thinking I should claim with my role.
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 20:18 Koshi wrote:
Ok, survivor might not want to claim. The self-aware miller should claim though. Dnu why he shouldn't claim instantly. Silly role.

Kinda asking the thread if I should claim or not.
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 20:38 yamato77 wrote:
On August 20 2013 20:37 Koshi wrote:
On August 20 2013 20:36 yamato77 wrote:
On August 20 2013 20:35 Koshi wrote:
If I roll survivor I will just claim with my first post and afk the rest of the game. Biggest chance to success.

...

Did you not read your role PM or something?

I did and I was disappointed.

Because you rolled scum again?

Lol.

You make me feel better :D
I wanted to roll town but this role was looking silly. But still better than scum. Also, now that I know I have to claim it is maybe not too horrible.


Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 21:28 Koshi wrote:
On August 20 2013 21:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi what's your read on Oats and why did you immediately change your mind on survivor claim thingy when Oats and yamato posted?

I was talking more about the self aware miller part. Dnu. Survivor shouldn't claim if he wants to play his role like that. Also your point about if we know there is a survivor we know there isn't an SK is really scummy rayn. Cuz SK is scum their problem.

Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 20:09 Koshi wrote:
On August 20 2013 20:07 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Self-aware millers and survivor claim please before D1. If you don't we lynch you after if you do.

I was thinking the same.

about the self-aware miller

(survivor can fuck off)
^ should have been my response to rayn in the first place.
________________

take it or leave it.


This is not a breadcrumb.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 14:48 GMT
#345
On August 20 2013 23:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy fuck, is DP scum aswell?

You got fucking caught with ridiculous reasoning and backflipping. Now you can't argue that you didn't 100% backflip and then tried to justify it with fallacious and ever changing arguments you pull out the OMGUS.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 14:55 GMT
#352
No. This is retarded. If someone tells everyone to claim miller immediately multiple times and then doesn't claim immediately. They are fucking scum. I don't care what he posts afterwards. He was ALSO UNDER DURESS WHEN HE MADE THE MILLER CLAIM. This is not a claim free of suspicion, with adequate breadcrumbs or a straight up claim.

He had to go look for a breadcrumb ffs. Which was just posts of him SAYING MILLERS SHOULD INSTA CLAIM.

I have no fucking idea how rayn could possibly think he is town. or that anyone would ever give him the benefit of the doubt.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 14:59 GMT
#358
On August 20 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 23:48 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:44 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Holy fuck, is DP scum aswell?

You got fucking caught with ridiculous reasoning and backflipping. Now you can't argue that you didn't 100% backflip and then tried to justify it with fallacious and ever changing arguments you pull out the OMGUS.

You should probably make a case then.
Be sure to read our arguments in this game though. Be also sure to adress the following games as your case is based on meta:
LXI, CCM, Basterd, 4 Persona. I give you a hint, 2 first are alike, and 2 last are alike.


I have made a case. Also don't tell me what to do. K thnks. The setup changes nothing about your arguments and the manner in which they contradict the very premise you were defending.

you are trying to make this about meta. it is not. It is about you directly contradicting yourself. For no foreseeable reason.

I'm done with you 'input' I am happy to talk to others about it.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:07 GMT
#367
On August 21 2013 00:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 23:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats my point basically is that in semi-open setup miller claims help town more than in closed setups (assumably, when looking at the possible roles). Also knowing what the stance was in CCM and considering what Ace said after the game about the claiming thing i made my proposition. Also if millers claim they should definitely claim on N0 (not like someone did in LXI - claimed somewhere around D2).

DP did you read this post at all?


That isn't what you originally said. IN fact that is the kind of response I expected. But you made some bullshit arguments instead which directly contradicted yourself and only started bringing in further "clarifications' which were in fact entirely new argument because your original explanation was so bad.

Regardless I am interested in other things right now and this conversation is no longer productive.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:09 GMT
#370
On August 21 2013 00:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 00:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
rayn, this isnt about which way of approaching miller claims is right.


Yes i know. But that's the exact "defense" DP was assuming i would give as town.
What gives?


I was expecting a reasonable explanation rather than a fallacious one.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:12 GMT
#373
On August 21 2013 00:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 23:15 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
So why would scum Rayn, at least 5 games further on from CCM, post that DP?

Because he wanted to say something and the easiest thing to say as scum is some stupid policy that everyone discuss' for pages and pages.

Like If he had just said 'oh yeah. I have learnt and have grown as a player and changed my mind' I would have dropped it. But he tried to align both positions and directly contradicts his previous position as justification for that position.

Show nested quote +
On August 20 2013 23:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats my point basically is that in semi-open setup miller claims help town more than in closed setups (assumably, when looking at the possible roles). Also knowing what the stance was in CCM and considering what Ace said after the game about the claiming thing i made my proposition. Also if millers claim they should definitely claim on N0 (not like someone did in LXI - claimed somewhere around D2).

Now if you are town go find real scum, like WoS.


That isn't what you originally said. IN FACT YOU NEVER ORIGINALLY MENTIONED IT AT ALL. I was clearly talking about your ORIGINAL EXPLANATION so why the fuck you think trying to twist the conversation is going to help you is beyond me.

"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:13 GMT
#375
Rayn,
Why is Koshi town? Why did you call me scum?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:15 GMT
#377
On August 21 2013 00:13 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 00:12 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 21 2013 00:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:15 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 20 2013 23:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
So why would scum Rayn, at least 5 games further on from CCM, post that DP?

Because he wanted to say something and the easiest thing to say as scum is some stupid policy that everyone discuss' for pages and pages.

Like If he had just said 'oh yeah. I have learnt and have grown as a player and changed my mind' I would have dropped it. But he tried to align both positions and directly contradicts his previous position as justification for that position.

On August 20 2013 23:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats my point basically is that in semi-open setup miller claims help town more than in closed setups (assumably, when looking at the possible roles). Also knowing what the stance was in CCM and considering what Ace said after the game about the claiming thing i made my proposition. Also if millers claim they should definitely claim on N0 (not like someone did in LXI - claimed somewhere around D2).

Now if you are town go find real scum, like WoS.


That isn't what you originally said. IN FACT YOU NEVER ORIGINALLY MENTIONED IT AT ALL. I was clearly talking about your ORIGINAL EXPLANATION so why the fuck you think trying to twist the conversation is going to help you is beyond me.


Because BEFORE YOU EVEN CALLED ME OUT FOR MY ORIGINAL EXPLANATION i wanted to CLARIFY IT AS I REALIZED IT MIGHT BE MISUNDERSTOOD.

Am i being clear enough?


It wasn't misunderstood. It was complete bullshit. So you tried to change your explanation. Because it was complete bullshit.

Why is Koshi town?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:19 GMT
#380
On August 21 2013 00:16 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 00:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Rayn,
Why is Koshi town? Why did you call me scum?

Because Koshi would not claim miller as scum. I am pretty sure of it, at least now. I like his explanation.
I called you scum because you are not even willing to investigate the WoS matter. He is clearly mafia as he is avoiding answering questions -> not wanting to prove his towniness.


I'd rather wait on WoS as I said to oates. Explain why Koshi would not claim miller. What about his explanation do you like?

Do you think it makes sense for koshi to repeatedly call for millers to claim and then to not claim? Is this a meta read? if so could you link me to a relevant game?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:23 GMT
#385
On August 21 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, talk about Koshi.
Why would he not do it as scum, and what do you like about his explanation?

This Koshi talking is somewhat boring. But I can answer that.
Because I don't call JK when 4 people are telling me to claim it. I am not going to claim something "under pressure" because 1 guy made a case. I simply won't do that. But even if I did it, you guys are seriously overreacting that this is a 100% scumclaim. Dnu how long you are going to keep hammering on it.


It is a 90% scumclaim
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:24 GMT
#392
On August 21 2013 00:22 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I do not care to explain my townreads unless they are in danger of getting lynched.
Now excuse me, i'm gonna make a case on WoS.

You are fucking out of your mind if you think koshi isn't getting lynched. Why you not talking Rayn? Townies love to talk. Maybe you aren't a townie. IN fact. Since when do townies flat out refuse to discuss their townreads that just claimed miller?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:28 GMT
#396
On August 21 2013 00:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote:
On August 21 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, talk about Koshi.
Why would he not do it as scum, and what do you like about his explanation?

This Koshi talking is somewhat boring. But I can answer that.
Because I don't call JK when 4 people are telling me to claim it. I am not going to claim something "under pressure" because 1 guy made a case. I simply won't do that. But even if I did it, you guys are seriously overreacting that this is a 100% scumclaim. Dnu how long you are going to keep hammering on it.

Oh but i can reference this.
Last game Koshi did not fakeclaim Jailkeeper when he was under serious pressure from BOTH town AND his scumbuddies.


A fake jailkeeper claim is FAR more complicated than a miller claim. Take it from someone who solo'd a scum win off the back of a fake Jailkeeper claim.

"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:30 GMT
#397
anyway. Im going to bed. Laters.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 15:50 GMT
#409
On August 21 2013 00:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 00:28 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 21 2013 00:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On August 21 2013 00:20 Koshi wrote:
On August 21 2013 00:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, talk about Koshi.
Why would he not do it as scum, and what do you like about his explanation?

This Koshi talking is somewhat boring. But I can answer that.
Because I don't call JK when 4 people are telling me to claim it. I am not going to claim something "under pressure" because 1 guy made a case. I simply won't do that. But even if I did it, you guys are seriously overreacting that this is a 100% scumclaim. Dnu how long you are going to keep hammering on it.

Oh but i can reference this.
Last game Koshi did not fakeclaim Jailkeeper when he was under serious pressure from BOTH town AND his scumbuddies.


A fake jailkeeper claim is FAR more complicated than a miller claim. Take it from someone who solo'd a scum win off the back of a fake Jailkeeper claim.


The thing is people are accusing Koshi of fakeclaiming here, now, because "he is in fear of getting lynched for it".

You do not know the jailkeeper situation, at all. In the last game townie claimed a watcher who had watched 2 people visit a roleblocked townie and if those two people did not claim, we would lynch them. One guy claimed medic (reasonable), another one was either roleblocker or JK. We were screaming to Koshi in mafia QT "fuck you, why are you trying to throw the game, the only way you can survive is to claim JK". Koshi kept his head calm and said "no way i am claiming, the dude is fakeclaiming watcher". He was fakeclaiming.

Does this sound like a dude who being called out for something in his couple of first posts would panic as scum and fakeclaim miller?


He said that the miller should claim countless times. He then does not claim miller until much later whilst under duress and with a shit "breadcrumb" despite being active in the thread.

He was an already scummy player. With a suspect as fuck miller claim. And a breadcrumb that was obviously looked for after the claim.

It is possible that he was just retarded townie. But unless a better option presents itself. (which I do not believe is WoS atm) he dies.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 16:00 GMT
#415
I'm all in on WoS.

He has my hypothetical vote until he gives an answer to both the original question, butt more importantly explains his avoidance discussing it.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 16:05 GMT
#417
let me extrapolate. Rayns case is very good and leaves me with severe doubts over WoS. Further I liked the way rayn dealt with my tunnel and I think he is more likely to be town than scum.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 20 2013 16:22 GMT
#432
my flip flopping is the result of de-tunnelling rayn and then viewing the thread from the perspective of rayn being town. I got enough of a town read of rayn from the way he dealt with my tunnel that I feel good about a perspective switch. Interested to hear what oates has concluded and what kush thinks.

Rainbows could be scum from the way he entered the thread. Watching closely.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
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