EPTOn September 23 2013 09:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them.
If I'm 55/45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM.
So im null. and LM/CR are town. OK.Show nested quote +
On September 23 2013 09:44 marvellosity wrote:
Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it.
just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.
This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it.
On September 23 2013 09:38 WaveofShadow wrote:
Agreed.
About FT:
It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing.
Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game.
He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them.
Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this:
^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right.
This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example.
Then we have his exit:
This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is.
I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there.
Thoughts, Marv?
On September 23 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote:
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence
Sidenote: I am troubled by VE's absence
Agreed.
About FT:
It's like FT said. He tries to make up analyses of DP and Geript which are seemingly based on absolutely nothing.
On September 22 2013 17:32 FirmTofu wrote:
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different.
Just going to post my thoughts as I read.
(On page 31) Mr. DP is being extremely defensive. Instead of actively hunting scum, he's running around pouring water on the fire enveloping him. This is what I don't like. Town DP is someone who reads the read carefully, deliberately, and cautiously. His accusations are usually well reasoned and well timed. This is precisely why he is always a good NK for scum and has a penchant for dying early in most games.
In this game, DP is entirely different.
Like, how the fuck does he know this? If he read DP's previous games like he said he'd realize it's not even true. DP constantly goes nuts when people accuse him; he even pointed it out himself this game.
He makes an interesting point where he says that this game nobody is scared of DP---I wonder if that is true. Normally DP looks really good really early but this time he has a lot of contentious thoughts regarding his alignment and hasn't done a great deal to relieve himself of them aside from aggressively attempting to take down his attackers or stating to the thread that he will be ignoring them.
Now he gets insulting for no reason---where does this attitude come from and why? I've never seen FT act like this:
On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:
I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.
On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT.
That doesnt make him scummy FT.
I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.
On September 22 2013 18:11 FirmTofu wrote:
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved.
(Page 35) I don't know if OO is joking with some of his posts or he actually believes the shit he's spewing. Judgement is being reserved.
On September 22 2013 18:32 FirmTofu wrote:
You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you.
If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner.
On September 22 2013 18:27 DarthPunk wrote:
So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game.
On September 22 2013 17:54 FirmTofu wrote:
I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.
On September 22 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
That doesnt make him scummy FT.
That doesnt make him scummy FT.
I understand that meta cases aren't always the best. That's why I haven't made a case on DP and pushed him like an inbred retard (see:geript). I am simply posting my thoughts, nothing more, nothing less.
So you are posting useless shit casting me in a scummy light and then are very clearly NOT calling me scum. What the fuck is it with bad players attacking me this game.
You need to get off your high horse and step back for a minute. I refuse to indulge you and these ad hominem attacks. Maybe my meta argument is bullshit. Maybe I am completely wrong. That doesn't mean you wave your dick around like you rule the thread and every player is a piece of shit compared to you.
If you want to discuss why my thoughts are poorly reasoned, I willing to have a go at it. I will not, however, humor you if you continue to waste my time in this manner.
^^That one I kinda liked lol, 'cause he's right.
On September 22 2013 18:58 FirmTofu wrote:
I would like to clarify my intentions here.
The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion.
Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit.
On September 22 2013 18:50 DarthPunk wrote:
I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO.
I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me.
Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time.
On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started?
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started?
I find it odd that FT thought I was scummy for being defensive. And then when I am defensive towards him he thinks I am townie. There is a real inconsistency in his narrative IMO.
I think a scum Firm Tofu would ABSOLUTELY not want to get into it with me.
Further his originally thread summary was really really off. Actually I have had some thoughts. I may construct a longer post shortly about this if you'll give me some time.
I would like to clarify my intentions here.
The inconsistent narrative was deliberate. Why? You are active. Accusing you allows me to read you better. Think rayn's style of play. By posting an inconsistent narrative, I can gauge your response as being townie or scummy in a quick, direct, and efficient fashion.
Furthermore, I can assess the extent to which you are actually scumhunting. The fact that you noticed the inconsistency makes you look more town to me. You want to find scum. You're looking for inconsistencies.
I can assure you, scum FirmTofu would buddy you until you die. You'll just have to take my word on that bit.
This appears to me like a flat-out lie. Could be either alignment caught in a lie though---I have lied as town to dispel suspicions because it's often easier than trying to explain that you were just being dumb, especially to someone tenacious like Axlegreaser, for example.
Then we have his exit:
On September 22 2013 19:14 FirmTofu wrote:
I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58.
On September 22 2013 19:13 Mocsta wrote:
Or is there someone else scummier?
On September 22 2013 19:11 FirmTofu wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum.
OK, are you going to lay down a vote.+ Show Spoiler +
On September 22 2013 19:09 Mocsta wrote:
DP ?might? think VE is town.
What does FT think VE is?
Show nested quote +
OK, lets make this relevant.On September 22 2013 19:07 FirmTofu wrote:
Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.
VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.
Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong.
On September 22 2013 19:00 Mocsta wrote:
Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum.
I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk.
As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc
Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me.
On September 22 2013 18:51 FirmTofu wrote:
I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind.
As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray.
As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment.
You can see which path I chose to take.
On September 22 2013 18:47 Mocsta wrote:
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started?
DP.
Do you find FT backing down indicative of a townie prodding for information and diverting course as they are satisfied.
Or scum prodding around, and diverting as shits about to get started?
I know this isn't addressed to me, but I would like to take a moment to address it. I hope you don't mind.
As scum, I would use DP as a tool. I know DP is respected in this community and has the ability to sway lynches in his direction regardless of alignment. Assuming DP is town and I am scum, I would latch on to DP and win his trust. Then, I would exchange reads about other players and slowly convince him to vote whoever I wanted him to vote, essentially leading him astray.
As town, I am more interested in determining his alignment.
You can see which path I chose to take.
Yeah dunno.. your posting is really reading forced to me. That alone doesn't make you scum.
I can't follow the above though, regardless of forced/non-forced consciousness... its a lot of talk.
As scum I would manipulate player X to be my puppet.. etc etc
Very few scum players have that skillset to proactively choose a player to influence; most adapt to the situation as it unfolds. So the above reads as total bullshit to me.
Fair enough. I'll give you an example. An extremely relevant one at that.
VE has basically been defending DP the entire game. DP, naturally, seems to have no qualms with VE. In fact, I'm fairly sure DP thinks VE is town.
Assuming this is true, we must conclude that DP will give VE's opinion more weight compared to the average player in this thread. After all, VE is his town read and town are usually more reliable than scum. If VE is able to convince DP to change his vote on ANYONE, he has already demonstrated that his buddying allowed him to influence DP's vote. In the event that VE is scum, VE can use DP as the voice for his vote, allowing DP to take the brunt of the blame when things go wrong.
DP ?might? think VE is town.
What does FT think VE is?
I think it's fairly obvious. I think VE is scum.
Or is there someone else scummier?
I don't like voting when there is still information to read. While VE is my strongest scum read at page 40, he may not be at page 58.
On September 22 2013 19:22 FirmTofu wrote:
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow.
@DP
As much as I would love to continue to argue with you, I refuse to. I'm not going to spam the thread with an argument between (probably) two townies that will serve no purpose in aiding our quest to find scum. If you have qualms about me, we can address them at a later date.
I'm enjoying this day 1. This is new. I will be sleeping now. Don't bother asking me anything until tomorrow.
This looks like he just gave up. Again, the issue is it's possible as scum OR town. Arguing with people becomes exhausting as town, especially if we believe that FT is telling the truth about his own beliefs. Obvious reasons for ditching here as scum, if he is.
I think I'm still overall null with a slight scum-lean on him just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment. I don't think his attack on DP is as suicidal as Geript's though (which is why I have my townread on geript) because it is my belief that whereas Geript knows exactly what he is doing and why, FT doesn't when attacking DP, so the scum possibility is there.
Thoughts, Marv?
Honestly I have very little to add to your whole analysis because I agree on all of it.
just because much of what he has done is possible from either alignment.
This is the nub of it, isn't it. How do we apportion the likelihood of this behaviour to scum/town. Is talking bullcrap about how DP usually plays coming from a townie just saying things, or mafia fabricating? Is his about-turn on DP scum trying to get out of a situation they dumbly got themselves into, or town just changing their mind weirdly? As it stands I don't think I'd be unhappy with a FT lynch, but I'm not sure how confident I'd be on it.
My issue is I don't think I like any of the other candidates enough today to vote for them.
If I'm 55/45 on FT that's better than the...nothing I get from Mocsta or townreads I get from Ray and LM.
Whats the read on VE?
+ Show Spoiler +
Dude, are you still butthurt I creamed you in your first newbie? Since then, you always complain you can't read me. jeez.
P.S. its pretty simple. If im suspicious of everyone, Im usually town. If im suspicous of one or two ppl and then relentlessly tunnel until proven wrong.. then im usually scum.. it really is that simple
P.S. its pretty simple. If im suspicious of everyone, Im usually town. If im suspicous of one or two ppl and then relentlessly tunnel until proven wrong.. then im usually scum.. it really is that simple
