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On September 22 2013 23:29 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:20 Mattchew wrote:On September 22 2013 23:19 DarthPunk wrote:
Mattchew. You got a read on marv yet? no, and i never will Clearly town should not lynch marv day one or two. But I thought it was interesting that I don't really have a firm read on him either way when I usually do this far into day one. Like I see people give him town reads and I just don't see it.
I have accepted that marv activity may never reach the pinnacle it was 9 months ago.
So I have adjusted my expectations of him.
I have a lean on marv but it could reverse depending on flips. I agree though, leave him alone a cycle of two.
If he is town, he will come into the thread himself.
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On September 22 2013 23:35 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:33 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 23:29 DarthPunk wrote:On September 22 2013 23:20 Mattchew wrote:On September 22 2013 23:19 DarthPunk wrote:
Mattchew. You got a read on marv yet? no, and i never will Clearly town should not lynch marv day one or two. But I thought it was interesting that I don't really have a firm read on him either way when I usually do this far into day one. Like I see people give him town reads and I just don't see it. I have accepted that marv activity may never reach the pinnacle it was 9 months ago. So I have adjusted my expectations of him. I have a lean on marv but it could reverse depending on flips. I agree though, leave him alone a cycle of two. If he is town, he will come into the thread himself. I haven't played with him for a while so I wasn't aware his posting rate dropped. It is certainly weird to see a 3 page filter marv when he used to have up to 20 page filters day one.
Its been lacklustre activity from marv for a couple months now.
Activity is not an alignment indicator for him.. in my opinion, he needs to be judged on emotional investment and pride/apathy for securing a scum lynch.
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On September 22 2013 23:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Last night I had the suspicion that Zaragon was mafia because most of his posts were filled with fluff and didn't come to a solid conclusion. Obvious-town ObviousOne was being a boss and pointing it out. Still, I don't think I've seen anything from him that indicates a strong stance on someone or anything that has an edge to it. His posts feel constructed to me but don't do a whole lot.
Anyone have a town game of Zaragon I can read?
Zaragon is signed up for the latest newbie
and has liek 60 posts under his name
Maybe he has played on other forums?
CC, take on the yamato situation that unfolded like 2-3 pages ago.
Does his absence affect that read?
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On September 22 2013 23:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:39 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 23:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Last night I had the suspicion that Zaragon was mafia because most of his posts were filled with fluff and didn't come to a solid conclusion. Obvious-town ObviousOne was being a boss and pointing it out. Still, I don't think I've seen anything from him that indicates a strong stance on someone or anything that has an edge to it. His posts feel constructed to me but don't do a whole lot.
Anyone have a town game of Zaragon I can read? Zaragon is signed up for the latest newbie and has liek 60 posts under his name Maybe he has played on other forums?
CC, take on the yamato situation that unfolded like 2-3 pages ago. Does his absence affect that read? I'm gutreading Yamato as town. He doesn't always use the best logic in the world, but when he's town it shines fairly brightly. I don't really know what you mean by his absence affecting my read.
did you read his most recent post? and then the retorts to that?
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On September 22 2013 23:41 kushm4sta wrote:
oh no say it isn't true. I think tl has entered the age of mocsta...the man is so good.
??
if you are ridiculing me.. who am i chasing that you disagree with
if you are not ridiculing me.. who am i chasing that you agree with?
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Keep in mind DP/Rayn, Koshi was heavily coached in GoT.
Look, hes a fuckn ballsy player thats for sure. My first game with Koshi was in sicilian, where he was the SK.
He then replaced into a newbie, and the difference in play was immediately apparent (granted thats 3P vs town.. so may not be indicative of scum).
Fact, if Koshi wants to look town and be useful, he can. Overall, the points rayn made before are quite interesting and do lean scum I feel.
Whereas the point that DP raised for townieness, is highly situation (as he admitted later when queried). I think this leads to an overall leaning scum read (not confirmed obviously).
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On September 22 2013 23:51 Mattchew wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 23:46 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On September 22 2013 23:39 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 23:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Last night I had the suspicion that Zaragon was mafia because most of his posts were filled with fluff and didn't come to a solid conclusion. Obvious-town ObviousOne was being a boss and pointing it out. Still, I don't think I've seen anything from him that indicates a strong stance on someone or anything that has an edge to it. His posts feel constructed to me but don't do a whole lot.
Anyone have a town game of Zaragon I can read? Zaragon is signed up for the latest newbie and has liek 60 posts under his name Maybe he has played on other forums?
CC, take on the yamato situation that unfolded like 2-3 pages ago. Does his absence affect that read? I'm gutreading Yamato as town. He doesn't always use the best logic in the world, but when he's town it shines fairly brightly. I don't really know what you mean by his absence affecting my read. He dropped 1 massively crafted post. Then left without waiting to see the responses or flesh things out via interaction with the thread. That in itself is scummy IMO. i dont know what yamato is like as scum, but his play comes off to me more as "when you read my opinions you should just agree with them because they are that right" Yeah, but thats a relatively easy tell to produce as either alingment, especially when its your trademark.
Just like DP being a tunnel machine as a trademark  --> Just Jokes
Heres one for you. Some gave yam a town read because he "broke up the DP/Geript thing - "constructively".
Do you classify that as an alignment indicative action?
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On September 23 2013 00:01 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:57 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 23:51 Mattchew wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 23:46 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 23:44 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On September 22 2013 23:39 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 23:35 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Last night I had the suspicion that Zaragon was mafia because most of his posts were filled with fluff and didn't come to a solid conclusion. Obvious-town ObviousOne was being a boss and pointing it out. Still, I don't think I've seen anything from him that indicates a strong stance on someone or anything that has an edge to it. His posts feel constructed to me but don't do a whole lot.
Anyone have a town game of Zaragon I can read? Zaragon is signed up for the latest newbie and has liek 60 posts under his name Maybe he has played on other forums?
CC, take on the yamato situation that unfolded like 2-3 pages ago. Does his absence affect that read? I'm gutreading Yamato as town. He doesn't always use the best logic in the world, but when he's town it shines fairly brightly. I don't really know what you mean by his absence affecting my read. He dropped 1 massively crafted post. Then left without waiting to see the responses or flesh things out via interaction with the thread. That in itself is scummy IMO. i dont know what yamato is like as scum, but his play comes off to me more as "when you read my opinions you should just agree with them because they are that right" Yeah, but thats a relatively easy tell to produce as either alingment, especially when its your trademark. Just like DP being a tunnel machine as a trademark --> Just Jokes Heres one for you. Some gave yam a town read because he "broke up the DP/Geript thing - "constructively". Do you classify that as an alignment indicative action? I wasn't going to say anything when i firsted picked up on this in the interest of not shitting up the thread with the same old useless shit. But when pandian posted this it was clearly false. I had been trying hard for a long period of time to not engage with Geript. So when yamato originally posted that we should stop when I already had it was pretty WTF?!?! When pandain said that yamato was to thank for that I was even more WTF?!??! and realised neither were reading the thread properly.
Ohh dont you worry .i agree in full; im genuinely surprised yam got so much credit for that.. because he was essentially providing live commentary to a grand final replay !
+ when I think of ppl breaking up fights.. i always hark back to "nomination mafia" and scum VE breaking up me/oats.
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"ATCHEW"
Thoughts on pandain pls, in particular his "setup trapz" logic for the vote with no thread input.
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On September 23 2013 00:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm 100% okay with lynching LoneMeow, Zaragon, Stutters (lol), maybe Coag.
*facepalm*
OK, so you got the gut read on yam.
You clearly read his last post.
You clearly read others retorts to that last post.
*Yam isn't on the scum list above*
Walk me through where I am going wrong with my read on Yam.
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On September 23 2013 00:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 00:06 Mocsta wrote:On September 23 2013 00:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
I'm 100% okay with lynching LoneMeow, Zaragon, Stutters (lol), maybe Coag. *facepalm* OK, so you got the gut read on yam. You clearly read his last post. You clearly read others retorts to that last post. *Yam isn't on the scum list above*
Walk me through where I am going wrong with my read on Yam. His scum meta just seems a lot different from his earlier postings. As soon as he entered the thread I was like "o hai, town yamato" Did the same thing in Aperture, and we had to shoot him fucking n1. NIGHT 1. I didn't think his post was that scummy tbh, just bad. I need this outlined a bit better.
I didnt realise Yam had a firm scum meta... IIRC yam had a stretch where he rolled scum like 4 games in a row.
I dont know if you have been following many games recently; but yamato been improving his scum game quite rapidly.
So yes, please detail more.
Im also keen to hear why you think his last post is bad vs scummy.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=60#1191
i mean.. do you even agree chariman ray is a suitable lynch? ESPECIALLY given that he started off by stating DP is scum; with what boils down to ZERO justification?
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up to page 70.
I like koshoi defence. sorry rayn
my choice of lynch today is outy of
yamato, lonemeow, or one of sentimental/umasi.
will give more when I'm done reading
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On September 23 2013 04:14 LoneMeow wrote:
I can't get a scum read on anyone but Umasi, and I'm notoriously biased against him so that's almost guaranteed to be wrong. I'll vote him anyway since I have to vote someone. Not sure I'll wake up for the deadline but I'll try.
Chairman Ray is lynchbait like in my last newbie, so probably town. IMHO his "last hour shenigans" plan is terrible, though.
##Vote: Umasi
Here for a while if you want to ask me something.
omg, this is terrible...
going to cast my vote before finishing reading
[##unvote
##vote: lone.meow[/b]
p.s. I hope u recovered from the accident. two scum games in a row. I feel sorry for you.
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On September 23 2013 04:51 Chairman Ray wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 04:39 LoneMeow wrote:On September 23 2013 04:34 Koshi wrote:On September 23 2013 04:29 LoneMeow wrote:On September 23 2013 04:27 Coagulation wrote:
Lonemeow doesnt believe in re reading thread. I've read and re-read the thread and filters all the time I had. I'm simply nowhere near good enough for games with players of this caliber. Then don't get lynched as town... We need to get rid of 2 scummers rather fast because the 3 NK shizzle. It's already enough if you don't get lynched as town on D1... No need to find all the scummers. How am I supposed to do that when I have no reads and no thread presence? LoneMeow, on D1, nobody knows who is town and who is mafia. If you are town, you know who you are and that's it. The biggest victory you can achieve for town is for you to not get lynched. Voting for yourself spells a huge lack of confidence, and how do you expect us to believe in you, if you don't even believe in yourself? When you vote someone on D1, you don't know what they will flip, but you can be confident in that vote knowing that it is the one you will regret the least. So you can keep your vote on yourself, put it back on Umasi, or whatever you want. Either way, I am confident in my vote on you because I know you play a lot better, and I think this is just a ploy to get everyone to think you are just a bad town.
I must say, I take some issue with chairman going for his fellow noobie jugular.
is this a town that only has confidence to go after ppl he is familiar with?
or
is this a scum exploiting an easy lynvh?
what's unsettling me is thenfluff chairman is adding in his push. but its just a regurgitation ofnwhay raynpelikoneet stated....
anyone down for a chairman lynch?
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OK caught up.
Firstly, yamato looks a lot better after his next followup/list post. Being wrong isnt indicative of scum, so I can forgive him for still targetting me. Hey bbycakes, if you have a *genuine* scum read on me; do the "ISO" and give me something to respond to.
Lastly, I'm really doubting both of Lone_Meow / Chairman_Ray are town. Both have actions that could warrant a lynch.
For me, to discern between the two, it comes down to:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=83#1650
I think as a newbie, Lone_Meow is prob a 60% scum action, 40% town action.
Whereas, I really can't see Chairman_Ray participating the way he as town at all. It just read as heavily opportunistic, given that he added no new context, but tried to peacock his post by paraphrasing Rayn.
Some of you might consider Chairman interactions with Lone_Meow as null still.
However, consider his opening post.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=52#1021
Consider his followup with Yamato pressure.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=74#1475
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=77#1538
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=79#1569
This all reads as heavily refined and non-natural ==> forced interaction
This is then exacerbated by the unvote on LoneMeow
On September 23 2013 07:51 Chairman Ray wrote:
Unvoting LM as he's probably sleeping now
##Unvote
I'll brb in an hour or so
What gives? He clearly went after Lones jugular, and now after some yam pressure; backs it all up with no alternative.
Im very confident thiis is scum putting all the eggs in one basket.
Lynch with fire
##Unvote
##Vote: Chairman_Ray
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On September 23 2013 08:13 ObviousOne wrote:
##Vote: Mocsta
Stop fucking around. Who do you want to vote and why?
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Yam btw, I think this is the first game I have joined in from the start since personality 2 !
Everything I joined since then I believe has been replacement games (smurf/sicilian/GoT).
What I'm saying is.. I don't think your meta read holds any water, because I havent had to play a Day1 for 8 months (I think personality 2 was in february) + I am inclined to do the things you brought forth as either alignment. Mocsta doesn't trust anyone Day1 as either alignment.
Geript has been espousing moclogic forever, but hes never been able to explain it to me either. so meh?
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On September 23 2013 09:37 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2013 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote:
Define "seems out of place" and I'll do just that. He means it sounds like bullshit.
@Moc What do you make of Chairman's filter in his newbie game that is pretty "constructed"?
I cant remember if his filter was constructed that game.
What I do know is that in the OBSQT, i called him out as scum.
But that was because he took a set of actions which made zero sense as a responsible townie.
He admited post-mortem that he was attempting to set a trap; and followed through with it.
Off memory, his posting doesn't feel the same as in the game... I let him slide with it early Day1 because a lot of ppl need time to adjust from a mini to a 30 player game. It can be genuinely daunting.
As I said, I am fixated on his attack of Lone_Meow. It was just over compensated and opportunistic. I think a townie woulda just chucked a vote personally. Akin to my reaction I suppose as I read what he did.
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On September 23 2013 09:42 WaveofShadow wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 23 2013 09:39 marvellosity wrote:By the way, Mocsta made me look at Chairman again, although I don't really have much to say about Mocsta's case itself (it could just be bad town). What makes me think Ray might flip mafia is: Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 10:24 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 22 2013 10:08 Stutters695 wrote:On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote:
Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Sorry I haven't been around since the start since I was pretty busy, but I'm definitely going to dedicate a few hours today and tomorrow doing my best to contribute.
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Last game I learned that it's quite difficult to get strong reads on people during the day. Most my reads at the start were quite off. A lot of town said scummy things, and a lot of scum were quite pro town. However during the final hour when thing started being messy, there were strong reads everywhere. So this game I will try to focus on making things very difficult for scum during the last hour. If a town ends up being lynched day 1, I want as much information to come out of it as possible.
So feel free to ask me anything and I will try to be as transparent as possible. If I see something fishy, I will definitely try to flush you out as well. How exactly do you plan on making things harder for scum only in the last hour? Everything from how people vote, when people vote, and vote switches are able to give strong reads. Like for example, near the end if the votes are leading 6 on person A and 5 on person B, and my vote is currently on person A, and my vote is currently on A. If I switch my vote from A to B, and then in response someone switches their vote from B to A, and then A flips town, that really sets off a red flag for that guy. It also gives a really good target for whoever is cop, because it has the potential to reveal two scum. There are probably a lot of ways we can force scum to make bigger pushes to save each other with some creativity. I only have one vote, but on the first day, I will use that vote to scumhunt and get as much information as possible instead of keeping my vote on the scummiest player early on and leaving it there. It really doesn't feel like Ray has done this at all (I mean obviously he hasn't with his vote) - he hasn't tried to gain information from people either. Town will usually at least try to follow through with their plan. Look at this post: Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 16:24 Chairman Ray wrote:On September 22 2013 15:41 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 14:41 Chairman Ray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 22 2013 14:28 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 09:57 Chairman Ray wrote:+ Show Spoiler +Hey everyone, this is my first post here. Sorry I haven't been around since the start since I was pretty busy, but I'm definitely going to dedicate a few hours today and tomorrow doing my best to contribute.
This is my third game of forum mafia. I have played real time mafia as well. Even though I'm a lot less experienced than most people here, I'll pull my weight just fine and I don't expect any newbie lenience.
Last game I learned that it's quite difficult to get strong reads on people during the day. Most my reads at the start were quite off. A lot of town said scummy things, and a lot of scum were quite pro town. However during the final hour when thing started being messy, there were strong reads everywhere. So this game I will try to focus on making things very difficult for scum during the last hour. If a town ends up being lynched day 1, I want as much information to come out of it as possible.
So feel free to ask me anything and I will try to be as transparent as possible. If I see something fishy, I will definitely try to flush you out as well. You're conflicting me btw. What I want to know is: Why are you still trying to play "trap the scum" after it backfired so badly in your last game? I thought we coached this out of you? I'm not playing the scum trap like I did last game. I'm not withholding anything, posting fake reads, or doing anything that's not completely genuine. However I do believe that analyzing a mislynch post-mortem isn't that productive and there's a lot that each town player can accomplish during the last hour, so that in the event of a mislynch, we have the information we need to narrow scum possibilities down to as few people as possible, and also to give the cop more productive reads as well. I think it would be tragic for the person lynched to lead in votes by a huge margin without much of a struggle, and having him flip town. That would tell us nothing coming into the second day. Thats great and all, but, there hasn't been a flip to analyse, let alone a mislynch. Whose scummiest on your radar; and why? I have played past games with only a few of the players here. Here are my reads on then so far: Coagulation - He was town last time I played with him. Injected a lot of one liners to get discussion going, but never really participated in the discussions themselves. He's playing pretty similarly this game. Umasi - He was mafia last time I played with him. He was very active and capitalized the discussion from the start. Took a good degree of control over the town. He's a lot more mellow this game around. I filtered through posts, and the person who looks the scummiest to me right now is stutters. He's made only a few posts so far. Every post he's made is a poke at kush, but his very last post was questioning me on how I would try to play out the last hour to make things harder for scum. It seems that out of all these pages of posts, and all these players, he's only interested in getting people onto kush and learning my scum catching plan. That seems like a scum agenda to me. If it was you who asked me that question, I wouldn't mind it since you've been asking everyone questions about a lot of things. However stutters very selectively asking me that question instead of the countless other things that have been going on in this thread really screams scum to me. He's asked who's scummiest, and gives two generic townreads. Now, Stutters is pinging his scumdar, fine. But is he using his vote as promised? Or, further, is he trying to get more information out of Stutters to better his read? What information is Ray pulling from this game like he said he planned to on Day 1? He never mentions Stutters again. It all reads to me like newbie with grand plans but no real idea as to how voting/vote analysis works in a game like this and maybe ditched his grand plans halfway through. The people who think Ray is scum----do you REALLY think he is as calculating as to give off newbie vibes in the odd ways he has just to throw people off? There are much 'cleaner' ways to look newbie. Fair question. But I'm not the one tackling him for grand plans.
Im tackling him for an opportunistic attempt to lynch Lone_Meow. It was compensated in a manner I dont think town would do.
Then once pressured, he drops the vote... very odd.
Look at Rayn, he is not getting traction on Koshi, but you have to respect him for upholding his read *AND* doing it by trying to illicit new information. This makes Raynpelikoneet essentially my first probable town read.
I can not say the same for the Chairman.. and game experience has nothing to do with it.
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EPT
