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On September 25 2013 07:02 Umasi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 06:23 FirmTofu wrote:I was just reading Umasi's filter and I'm having a bit of trouble following his thought process. On September 23 2013 03:02 Umasi wrote:On September 22 2013 17:19 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 16:39 Umasi wrote:
feel free to ask questions then OK. I dont follow the progression here. On September 22 2013 16:25 Umasi wrote:
I think ray is probably town On September 22 2013 16:26 Umasi wrote:
wait after reading his post (didn't see it when I posted) he's even more probably town Referring to post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=54#1073Im more concerned about the first post. Why feel the need to give a free town read on someone that wasn't being discussed at the time. Because I think he's town. Chairmans just pretty good lynchbait he certainly was last game, and his play so far has evoked an identical feel. on another note, find it annoying how you're like 'umasi hasn't talked enough about the important things in the thread' and then ask me about two one liners. kinda wacky, but I have a town read on you. idk about FT, slightly scummy for me, because of how contrived his pressure on DP felt for a silly reason On September 22 2013 23:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I think despite Umasi's allegations to the contrary, he's been contributing nothing of value. After LoneMeow leaves he decides that since he can't get anymore fuel, he'll unvote. And then really all he talks about is people who aren't scummy looking.
I'm switching from Stutters to him because at least with Umasi, if he does end up flipping red then his filter becomes more useful than Stutters who just pushed kush all day. Since apparently pressuring him isn't working and he's lurking harder than ever. We could vig stutters though.
I don't like yamato's big post either. He calls DP mafia, rayn scummy, and then quotes Ray's fluffpost and says HE'S THE SCUM. And he's really got nothing else to show, especially afterwards he doesn't rationalize anything. I'm leaning red on him. Umasi seems more red to me but yamato has more to show for further analysis if he flips red.
But I'll keep my vote on Umasi for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Umasi
Otherwise, out of the filter dives I want to say something about WoS but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps I'll say something about him and also Koshi when I get back. thank god your thoughts on me basically are 'if he's red, man we have some things to go on' and 'he hasn't talked about important things!' Lynching for information is something I'm a firm disbeliever of, I think it's frequently a scum tool fwiw, I told you guys I'd respond to questions you had for me (and the only one I've seen is mocsta's) mocsta kinda grouped us together as non-contributing-flying-under-the-radar dudes iirc, so you suddenly voting me with THAT shit reasoning is why I'm voting you, because it feels you're like 'quick target the other dude who's in a similar position to me' also there's a vote thread, use it ##vote sentinel We see an OMGUS vote on Sentinel. Not really alignment indicative because town are guilty of this just like mafia are. Then he gets pressured by rayn about his vote and slowly backs off, explaining that his vote was simply the best of the options available to him. On September 23 2013 04:10 Umasi wrote:
annoying thing is I don't feel that strongly about the sentinel lynch, just stronger than other lynches that have been tossed around.
kinda want to see what people think though Note how the confidence in his reads has drastically diminished over the course of these two posts. Then, near lynch, we have these kinds of posts. On September 23 2013 10:57 Umasi wrote:
sentinel vote for justice!
do it do it do it On September 23 2013 10:59 Umasi wrote:
no I mean people should vote sentinel for justice :| He doesn't take a stance on the two candidates that are most likely to be lynched, as if he knows both are town and doesn't want to risk changing his vote and being called scum for it. He also is now suddenly way more confident that Sentinel is scum, despite being dissuaded by rayn at one point in the thread. :/ I don't like Umasi at all. quickly responding, almost finished the write-up but am addressing this now why is my confidence in my reads diminishing scummy, and why would I push sentinel near the deadline if I knew you two were town? That would imply Sentinel is ALSO town, so what would the purpose of me doing that be? And if both were town, why would I want to change my vote to go onto one of them, if sentinel (the third frontrunner iirc) was who I was currently on? This is operating the assumption that all three of the lynch candidates are town, btw. Why is me not taking a stance on Chair or you at that time scummy? ~and even so, I was pretty clear with my stance on Chair, I say in pretty explicit terms I thought he was town. Mocsta asked me about it, in that post you quoted. But it's not like I could come up with a convincing defense for him, because he constantly signed his own death warrant with the way he was posting. And if I can't actually convince myself that he's town using logic, I probably shouldn't try defending him at all. What else makes me scum, or is it solely not being on either of the two wagons at the time of lynch? /semi afk again
The issue is not that you backed down on Sentinel. It's that you were suddenly back on Sentinel afterwards even though you had previously backed off. What caused this unnatural shift? I'm also not operating on any assumptions. I know both lynch candidates were town(Me and Ray). I don't know Sentinel's alignment, so that is the only variable here.
The purpose of you voting sentinel is so that you aren't subject to being scrutinized for your stance on the lynch. Sentinel's alignment doesn't really matter here. You know Sentinel isn't going to get lynched so you don't have to worry about the repercussions of his flip. You could be bussing your teammate or just putting your vote on town. Doesn't make much of a difference
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11589 Posts
On September 25 2013 07:11 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:09 yamato77 wrote:
Marv, are you opposed to a Sentinel lynch?
I want to lead a lynch for a day. There's lots of things I want to do before I arrive at a lynch in principle, no, I'm not, he doesn't really have any redeeming features. one thing is that it would seem kinda odd for him to question your confirmed-townness if he's mafia, because he would know he hit you and he would know that you were saved therefore. He would have had to fake that.
That's not particularly hard to do when Risen, VE, and Deconduo have all chimed in about their doubts
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On September 25 2013 07:04 FirmTofu wrote:For Rayn: Posts like these, where he is playing proactively and trying to actively assess the value of the lynch at hand made me think VE is town. Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
I might regret this, but does anyone have any like...previous games of Lone's I can peruse? Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Just names would suffice - I'm not above doing the legwork. I just am not familiar with his typical play. I'm hung up right now because his tenacity on the Pandain vote reads kinda more townie than scummy in a vacuum...but his refusal to comment on like anything else is very troubling to me. Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:12 VisceraEyes wrote:On September 22 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:On September 22 2013 07:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
I might regret this, but does anyone have any like...previous games of Lone's I can peruse? The previous newbie game. Just the one then? Or will the previous few have him in them? Show nested quote +On September 22 2013 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote:
Well he seemed WAY more involved in the discussion in that game than he is in this game. That's....really odd. Marvy baby what do you make of that? He didn't have to do this, but he did. It feels like he's genuinely trying to find scum.
Bullshit FirmTofu! Bullshit!
VE posted these things BEFORE YOU HAD A SCUMREAD ON HIM! Therefore it can't be a reason for your townread on him.
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Rayn, that is not true. I had a scum read on VE far before those posts. Please read my filter.
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I had only read up to page 30 at the time of that post and was still catching up. Keep that in mind.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 25 2013 07:17 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:11 marvellosity wrote:On September 25 2013 07:09 yamato77 wrote:
Marv, are you opposed to a Sentinel lynch?
I want to lead a lynch for a day. There's lots of things I want to do before I arrive at a lynch in principle, no, I'm not, he doesn't really have any redeeming features. one thing is that it would seem kinda odd for him to question your confirmed-townness if he's mafia, because he would know he hit you and he would know that you were saved therefore. He would have had to fake that. That's not particularly hard to do when Risen, VE, and Deconduo have all chimed in about their doubts
Perhaps not, do you remember where Sentinel came in in regards to these guys?
I know it's not much but it's the kinda thing that gives me pause with stuff.
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I'm going to dive Mattchew's filter and provide my thoughts on him. I don't like how this wagon gained so much steam so quickly.
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11589 Posts
On September 25 2013 07:25 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:17 yamato77 wrote:On September 25 2013 07:11 marvellosity wrote:On September 25 2013 07:09 yamato77 wrote:
Marv, are you opposed to a Sentinel lynch?
I want to lead a lynch for a day. There's lots of things I want to do before I arrive at a lynch in principle, no, I'm not, he doesn't really have any redeeming features. one thing is that it would seem kinda odd for him to question your confirmed-townness if he's mafia, because he would know he hit you and he would know that you were saved therefore. He would have had to fake that. That's not particularly hard to do when Risen, VE, and Deconduo have all chimed in about their doubts Perhaps not, do you remember where Sentinel came in in regards to these guys? I know it's not much but it's the kinda thing that gives me pause with stuff.
Not really.
I know Risen was first.
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Oh fuck. This is why i want always kill all the fucking idiots who post before reading the whole thread. I have to decipher their comments because their reads are "I am on page 3, XYZ IS SOOOO SCUMMY SCUM SCUM SCUM" then they never bring the m up again, then when questioned i have to look at 12 different filters and read the thread from pages 1-12937 jsut to find out exactly when what happened because there are 9834 different timestamps and i can't trust them.
You are making yourself incredibly hard to read by doing this. EVERYONE DON'T FUCKING POST IF YOU HAVE NOT READ THE FULL THREAD!
/end rant
FirmTofu. My point still stands. How does that make VE look town? How is that a good contribution? And still, you labeled VE -- on N1 -- in "people that are capable of strong town games, but are currently either just trolling or posting with a subdued interest". Doesn't sound like a town read to me.
+ the fact that your only scumread on D1 was apparently based on nothing but false information. You had zero scumreads on D1. Oh yeah, you had the DP scumread that was bullshit. Weak.
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I'll try not to post when I still catching up in the future.
If you don't think those posts make VE look town, I can't help you. I already explained how I thought they made him look town, so you can just try to follow my thought process in that department.
Also, why would I make so many read changes as scum and just invite all these accusations? Wouldn't a scum FirmTofu just tunnel VE and DP because then he would remain consistent?
What you are saying is that I played badly. Okay. I can accept that. How does that make me scum though?
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I just spent a half an hour onto something i thought proves someone is scum when in fact that was a big pile of nothing and that could have been a non-issue in the first place. I'm gonna go to bed..
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On September 25 2013 07:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I just spent a half an hour onto something i thought proves someone is scum when in fact that was a big pile of nothing and that could have been a non-issue in the first place. I'm gonna go to bed..
lol. Sorry?
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On September 25 2013 07:39 FirmTofu wrote:
I'll try not to post when I still catching up in the future.
If you don't think those posts make VE look town, I can't help you. I already explained how I thought they made him look town, so you can just try to follow my thought process in that department.
Also, why would I make so many read changes as scum and just invite all these accusations? Wouldn't a scum FirmTofu just tunnel VE and DP because then he would remain consistent?
What you are saying is that I played badly. Okay. I can accept that. How does that make me scum though?
No i am saying your reasons for thinking VE is town are extremely weak and your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1.
That's my point.
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On September 24 2013 12:25 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 24 2013 12:22 yamato77 wrote:
I'm confirmed town, so what I say actually goes today.
We lynch Sentinel. No you aren't. Unless a doctor claims the save you could easily just be saying you got protected and you're scum. Doctor don't claim, though... that would be stupid.
On September 24 2013 15:30 VisceraEyes wrote:
Or what about a Sentinel lynch? The "confirmed town" yamato is calling for a Sentinel lynch. Any thoughts on that dude?
Like...The Cephiro thing is so boring to me. Your post about him was nothing but a huge summary of his play, which even contains consideration for possible townie-mindests. You never draw a conclusion that he's scum, simply state that you're not adverse to lynching him...but by denying these other wagons you're saying you ARE adverse to lynching those players. Why?
On September 24 2013 18:58 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Since when has yamato been confirmed town?
Also, what do you guys think of Cheesecake lately? He's been under the radar for a while, only showed up once for night 1 to sheep yamato.
On September 25 2013 05:58 deconduo wrote:
Wait unless I'm missing something here, how is yamato confirmed? From what I understand, and coag hasn't been that forthcoming with information, coag claimed a vig shot on yamato, and yamato claimed he was protected. Why does that make yamato town? All it means is that coag is semi-confirmed, and a doc saved yamato.
Why would a scum lie about being protected, it makes sense for yamato to claim the protection regardless of his alignment.
chronologically, those are the four posts that questioned yamatos confirmed-townness (I think that's all)
On September 25 2013 07:12 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:02 Umasi wrote:On September 25 2013 06:23 FirmTofu wrote:I was just reading Umasi's filter and I'm having a bit of trouble following his thought process. On September 23 2013 03:02 Umasi wrote:On September 22 2013 17:19 Mocsta wrote:On September 22 2013 16:39 Umasi wrote:
feel free to ask questions then OK. I dont follow the progression here. On September 22 2013 16:25 Umasi wrote:
I think ray is probably town On September 22 2013 16:26 Umasi wrote:
wait after reading his post (didn't see it when I posted) he's even more probably town Referring to post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071¤tpage=54#1073Im more concerned about the first post. Why feel the need to give a free town read on someone that wasn't being discussed at the time. Because I think he's town. Chairmans just pretty good lynchbait he certainly was last game, and his play so far has evoked an identical feel. on another note, find it annoying how you're like 'umasi hasn't talked enough about the important things in the thread' and then ask me about two one liners. kinda wacky, but I have a town read on you. idk about FT, slightly scummy for me, because of how contrived his pressure on DP felt for a silly reason On September 22 2013 23:54 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
I think despite Umasi's allegations to the contrary, he's been contributing nothing of value. After LoneMeow leaves he decides that since he can't get anymore fuel, he'll unvote. And then really all he talks about is people who aren't scummy looking.
I'm switching from Stutters to him because at least with Umasi, if he does end up flipping red then his filter becomes more useful than Stutters who just pushed kush all day. Since apparently pressuring him isn't working and he's lurking harder than ever. We could vig stutters though.
I don't like yamato's big post either. He calls DP mafia, rayn scummy, and then quotes Ray's fluffpost and says HE'S THE SCUM. And he's really got nothing else to show, especially afterwards he doesn't rationalize anything. I'm leaning red on him. Umasi seems more red to me but yamato has more to show for further analysis if he flips red.
But I'll keep my vote on Umasi for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: Umasi
Otherwise, out of the filter dives I want to say something about WoS but I can't quite put my finger on it. Perhaps I'll say something about him and also Koshi when I get back. thank god your thoughts on me basically are 'if he's red, man we have some things to go on' and 'he hasn't talked about important things!' Lynching for information is something I'm a firm disbeliever of, I think it's frequently a scum tool fwiw, I told you guys I'd respond to questions you had for me (and the only one I've seen is mocsta's) mocsta kinda grouped us together as non-contributing-flying-under-the-radar dudes iirc, so you suddenly voting me with THAT shit reasoning is why I'm voting you, because it feels you're like 'quick target the other dude who's in a similar position to me' also there's a vote thread, use it ##vote sentinel We see an OMGUS vote on Sentinel. Not really alignment indicative because town are guilty of this just like mafia are. Then he gets pressured by rayn about his vote and slowly backs off, explaining that his vote was simply the best of the options available to him. On September 23 2013 04:10 Umasi wrote:
annoying thing is I don't feel that strongly about the sentinel lynch, just stronger than other lynches that have been tossed around.
kinda want to see what people think though Note how the confidence in his reads has drastically diminished over the course of these two posts. Then, near lynch, we have these kinds of posts. On September 23 2013 10:57 Umasi wrote:
sentinel vote for justice!
do it do it do it On September 23 2013 10:59 Umasi wrote:
no I mean people should vote sentinel for justice :| He doesn't take a stance on the two candidates that are most likely to be lynched, as if he knows both are town and doesn't want to risk changing his vote and being called scum for it. He also is now suddenly way more confident that Sentinel is scum, despite being dissuaded by rayn at one point in the thread. :/ I don't like Umasi at all. quickly responding, almost finished the write-up but am addressing this now why is my confidence in my reads diminishing scummy, and why would I push sentinel near the deadline if I knew you two were town? That would imply Sentinel is ALSO town, so what would the purpose of me doing that be? And if both were town, why would I want to change my vote to go onto one of them, if sentinel (the third frontrunner iirc) was who I was currently on? This is operating the assumption that all three of the lynch candidates are town, btw. Why is me not taking a stance on Chair or you at that time scummy? ~and even so, I was pretty clear with my stance on Chair, I say in pretty explicit terms I thought he was town. Mocsta asked me about it, in that post you quoted. But it's not like I could come up with a convincing defense for him, because he constantly signed his own death warrant with the way he was posting. And if I can't actually convince myself that he's town using logic, I probably shouldn't try defending him at all. What else makes me scum, or is it solely not being on either of the two wagons at the time of lynch? /semi afk again The issue is not that you backed down on Sentinel. It's that you were suddenly back on Sentinel afterwards even though you had previously backed off. What caused this unnatural shift? I'm also not operating on any assumptions. I know both lynch candidates were town(Me and Ray). I don't know Sentinel's alignment, so that is the only variable here. The purpose of you voting sentinel is so that you aren't subject to being scrutinized for your stance on the lynch. Sentinel's alignment doesn't really matter here. You know Sentinel isn't going to get lynched so you don't have to worry about the repercussions of his flip. You could be bussing your teammate or just putting your vote on town. Doesn't make much of a difference
why would I switch onto firmtofu, if my read on chairman was not something I logically could back up and my strongest scumread was Sentinel?
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On September 25 2013 07:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:39 FirmTofu wrote:
I'll try not to post when I still catching up in the future.
If you don't think those posts make VE look town, I can't help you. I already explained how I thought they made him look town, so you can just try to follow my thought process in that department.
Also, why would I make so many read changes as scum and just invite all these accusations? Wouldn't a scum FirmTofu just tunnel VE and DP because then he would remain consistent?
What you are saying is that I played badly. Okay. I can accept that. How does that make me scum though? No i am saying your reasons for thinking VE is town are extremely weak and your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1. That's my point.
Okay, maybe they are weak. Is town FirmTofu incapable of making weak arguments? I don't see how you automatically arrive at the conclusion that I must be scum because I made a weak argument.
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On September 25 2013 07:45 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I just spent a half an hour onto something i thought proves someone is scum when in fact that was a big pile of nothing and that could have been a non-issue in the first place. I'm gonna go to bed.. lol. Sorry?
NP. I know like 80% of players do exactly what you do. I have personal issues towards that kinda actions from people. Nothing to be sorry about, i am jsut generally mad because of wasted time that could have been used productively by me.
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On September 25 2013 07:46 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2013 07:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:On September 25 2013 07:39 FirmTofu wrote:
I'll try not to post when I still catching up in the future.
If you don't think those posts make VE look town, I can't help you. I already explained how I thought they made him look town, so you can just try to follow my thought process in that department.
Also, why would I make so many read changes as scum and just invite all these accusations? Wouldn't a scum FirmTofu just tunnel VE and DP because then he would remain consistent?
What you are saying is that I played badly. Okay. I can accept that. How does that make me scum though? No i am saying your reasons for thinking VE is town are extremely weak and your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1. That's my point. Okay, maybe they are weak. Is town FirmTofu incapable of making weak arguments? I don't see how you automatically arrive at the conclusion that I must be scum because I made a weak argument.
I should have been more clear. This: "your posts from N1 don't indicate you thought VE is town and now you are saying you thought he was town on N1"
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Snipping your quote.
On September 25 2013 07:46 Umasi wrote:
The issue is not that you backed down on Sentinel. It's that you were suddenly back on Sentinel afterwards even though you had previously backed off. What caused this unnatural shift? I'm also not operating on any assumptions. I know both lynch candidates were town(Me and Ray). I don't know Sentinel's alignment, so that is the only variable here.
The purpose of you voting sentinel is so that you aren't subject to being scrutinized for your stance on the lynch. Sentinel's alignment doesn't really matter here. You know Sentinel isn't going to get lynched so you don't have to worry about the repercussions of his flip. You could be bussing your teammate or just putting your vote on town. Doesn't make much of a difference
why would I switch onto firmtofu, if my read on chairman was not something I logically could back up and my strongest scumread was Sentinel?[/QUOTE]
I'm not saying you should've switched onto me. I'm saying if you were backing off of Sentinel, why didn't you start looking for other targets? You sounded pretty convinced by Rayn that Sentinel didn't have a strong chance of flipping scum. Shouldn't you have started looking for other targets?
Why didn't you talk more about Ray and why he isn't a good lynch? Why didn't you comment at all on the wagon on me. There are so many things I would've expected a townie to do in your position that you did not do.
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EPT
