EPTOn August 15 2013 04:29 strongandbig wrote:
when have i not been under pressure since i came back. how can i show up when i'm not under pressure.
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On August 15 2013 04:19 Clarity_nl wrote:
snb asked me in a pm why I think he's scum, and asked me to answer either in pm or thread, he doesn't seem happy with the "he's not doing anything" reason. So here it is, why snb is scum:
1) Low activity. It CAN be town, but it's more likely to be disinterested scum.
2) After being lord d1 snb suddenly does not want to be lord d2. He tells both me and oats the exact same phrase in pms "I want to run for lord n3 again, I want to re-earn my obv-towniness from n0"
3) Broken promises. This ties into point 2. He has not re-earned his "obv-towniness" at all. d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms.
How about d3 you ask? He's pushed risen real hard you say?
Let's look at his main post on risen shall we.
+ Show Spoiler +
First off, the first paragraph about risen getting lord is immediately wrong. during n2, Only rayn and risen were alive when they had to vote for lord, yet snb doesn't know this? He's mentioning 3 vote for one and one the other. He thought all 4 members of that house were alive? This indicates snb is clearly not paying attention to this game.
The first three paragraphs are all on his opening list post that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER agreed was terrible. Why are you analyzing it snb? To make your case four times as big as it needed to be, perhaps? Big cases carry more weight, right?
Then there's the last bit:
Notice how snb's case on risen is comprised entirely of Risen's day 1 and nothing else.
Yes, at the end of day 1 he still wanted to lynch me. But guess what? He eventually did change his mind on me and grack.
I doubt snb was even aware of it, but if he was then clearly he didn't care to mention it, because it would make his case less compelling.
AND
4) snb only shows up in thread when he's under pressure. When he's not under pressure he's nowhere to be found.
##Vote strongandbig
snb asked me in a pm why I think he's scum, and asked me to answer either in pm or thread, he doesn't seem happy with the "he's not doing anything" reason. So here it is, why snb is scum:
1) Low activity. It CAN be town, but it's more likely to be disinterested scum.
2) After being lord d1 snb suddenly does not want to be lord d2. He tells both me and oats the exact same phrase in pms "I want to run for lord n3 again, I want to re-earn my obv-towniness from n0"
3) Broken promises. This ties into point 2. He has not re-earned his "obv-towniness" at all. d2 he didn't do much, that's simply how it is. He had no presence in the thread at all, nor im pms.
How about d3 you ask? He's pushed risen real hard you say?
Let's look at his main post on risen shall we.
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 13 2013 01:45 strongandbig wrote:
So here's what I want to talk about - why has Risen been getting a pass today? I don't even care about him being lord. It sounds completely reasonable that he would be chosen since his house was worried Rayne would die (although it seems like a better plan would have been for three to vote Rayne and Risen to vote himself, that way if Ryan dies Risen would be the next lord automatically). Anyway, we should be pressuring Risen for what's in his filter.
(1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit.
He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it.
(aside:
In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads.
Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way.
So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread.
So here's what I want to talk about - why has Risen been getting a pass today? I don't even care about him being lord. It sounds completely reasonable that he would be chosen since his house was worried Rayne would die (although it seems like a better plan would have been for three to vote Rayne and Risen to vote himself, that way if Ryan dies Risen would be the next lord automatically). Anyway, we should be pressuring Risen for what's in his filter.
(1) The big entry post - I talked some about this before, but it's total bullshit.
He attacked Oats, Yamato, and DI for playing anti-town, shitting up the thread, fighting over nothing, etc. The problem is, this is exactly what they do EVERY GAME. Oats argues over stupid things, Yamato is touchy as fuck, and DI is the most anti-town town player possible. They are the very definition of easy targets for scum to attack exactly like Risen did - but Risen should have known better than to call them scum and push for their lynch off of it.
(aside:
Show nested quote +
Connection theory! Reads like scum not wanting to either attack their buddy or directly defending them. Although Yamato is super touchy, it is more out of character for him to take a fight so far in the fucking-the-thread direction than it is for Oats to do so, and Risen doesn't actually give any reasons why he thinks Yamato is a better scum target than Oats, he just asserts that his filter looks better.)On August 09 2013 03:27 Risen wrote:Oats is scum, Yamato is null The funny thing is that prior to looking into the filters I thought Yamato would come across as more scummy than Oats, and gave kush a pass while reading through because of that.
In that post, he also calls Xatalos scum based on what boils down in part to a connection theory with his bullshit read on DI. Connection theories with unflipped (or un-scumclaimed) players? Okay, can be done by town, but shouldn't, another easy way for scum to generate reads.
Another thing - just look at that post in general. It's huge, so he must be town right? (just ask austinmcc!) Nope, wrong! A large part of the post is stream-of-consciousness, much easier to write than an actual structured case. Also it's a list-post, shorter reads on large numbers of people, easy for scum to do and looks big. Most of the reads in the post are "easy reads" for scum to make, attacking people for playing in an anti-town fashion rather than for actually being scum and attacking other people for invented reasons. A lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way.
So yeah, what I want to hear next is from people who've been in PMs with Risen, whether he's given more to them in terms of reads, cases, and indications that he's actually thinking carefully about the game than he has been in the thread.
First off, the first paragraph about risen getting lord is immediately wrong. during n2, Only rayn and risen were alive when they had to vote for lord, yet snb doesn't know this? He's mentioning 3 vote for one and one the other. He thought all 4 members of that house were alive? This indicates snb is clearly not paying attention to this game.
The first three paragraphs are all on his opening list post that EVERYONE AND THEIR MOTHER agreed was terrible. Why are you analyzing it snb? To make your case four times as big as it needed to be, perhaps? Big cases carry more weight, right?
Then there's the last bit:
The rest of his posting shows much less effort put into analyzing the game. An example is how Clarity is still his preferred lynch target in his final posts before N1, despite a lot more information being put into the thread and a lot more public discussion among the principals of that situation. He hasn't made any real cases since his first post, and he hasn't actually followed up on his DI, xatalos, or grackaroni reads. From the clear and huge difference in effort between his first post and the rest of his filter, it's clear that his first post was very much constructed and careful, which imo is a scum thing to do; additionally, the fact that he was careful and put effort into just writing that post makes it even more suspect that his reads in it were so obviously bad in such a specifically scummy way.
Notice how snb's case on risen is comprised entirely of Risen's day 1 and nothing else.
Yes, at the end of day 1 he still wanted to lynch me. But guess what? He eventually did change his mind on me and grack.
I doubt snb was even aware of it, but if he was then clearly he didn't care to mention it, because it would make his case less compelling.
AND
4) snb only shows up in thread when he's under pressure. When he's not under pressure he's nowhere to be found.
##Vote strongandbig
when have i not been under pressure since i came back. how can i show up when i'm not under pressure.
I dunno....
How about....
THE ENTIRETY OF DAY 2
