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Vivax
21965 Posts
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Vivax
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I know that's gonna look kinda scummy, but I'm going to bed now. Gn! | ||
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Did nobody find my post scummy? Man I suck. Fuck lurker lynches. Lynch scum. ##vote stutters | ||
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On July 27 2013 17:33 hzflank wrote: I found your first post scummy before I read all of the following posts. They were so much worse than yours that they made your first post look like a scum trap. It was kinda designed to lure some response from scum thinking they got an easy target. But I need to work on appearing scummy, either that, or scum this game is a team of cravens (thx GoT). | ||
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I'm curious why you (hzflank) accuse people of mud throwing but didn't notice stutters with his little aggressive post lacking of followup. On July 27 2013 10:33 Stutters695 wrote: So basically you don't have a stance on it? | ||
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Lurkers are liabilities later in the game. I don't have a problem with taking them out sooner, rather than later. If you are stuck in a potential mylo/lylo situation with a lurker, it is no fun. Of course, if some one is overly scummy we should lynch them first. Stutters replies to this with "You don't have a stance on it". It's almost the same thing I said (Lynch lurkers unless someone is scummy enough to warrant a lynch over them). Stutters only accuses this guy of not having a stance, not me, and I don't agree that this posts warrants this accusation. You agree with him that this post is not taking a stance? I think it's clear what Paperscraps was saying here, or do you think that this post is in some way scum afraid to say what they want to do with lurkers (which is in my humble opinion not very smart to assume). | ||
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On July 27 2013 17:57 hzflank wrote: That is not taking a stance. Taking a stance would be “I am going to vote for anyone who lurks”. Saying that you will vote for a lurker unless someone else is scummier and then going on to say that it is hard to get solid reads on day 1 is not taking a stance. I do not think that being afraid to say what to do with lurkers is a scum tell. I do think that attempting to mimic thread sentiment is a scum tell. But I said the same thing. Hi guys, I propose that we lynch the lurkiest guy D1.Obviously if someone looks really scummy then we lynch him first, but if that's not the case then we lynch the guy with the least posts Why is Paperscraps scummy for it but not me? Do yours and stutters' reasons only apply to single players? | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:04 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm hereby starting a FirmTofu wagon, anyone with me? ##Vote FirmTofu One or two reasons along with the vote usually don't hurt in convincing people to join your wagon. | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:11 hzflank wrote: After reading Tofu's filter I am going to have to decline at this point. He actually looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread (or at least my read on him has changed after some rereads of his posts). To me it actually looks like Tofu is trying to open the game up for scum-hunters. I realize that your post is not serious, Clarity, however I would appreciate it if you could tell us if you actually have a reason for a wagon on Tofu. Might I ask why you think his post is not serious? | ||
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I Actually also want to lynch vayne for all the bollocks he has been posting early game.i'M not used to him posting bollocks in his town games. I already hate this ggame for all its small posts, and its joke posts. Jack sparrow is annoying and i would like him to get a more serious tone soon. All this bullshitting only helps scum.it was fine at the start but stop now please. That said, let's work towards a better atmosphere please. Also consider lookinespeciallyg at people who post only few.n | ||
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That said, I endorse his lynch for today, and stutters' lynch as second option actually cause I can't tell if he's really busy or scum, but I know Vayne wasn't busy and still posted trash. I suggest you all realize that D1 has serious potential to end up in a crapshoot, and that RNGing a lynch makes it more likely to hit scum than finding scum according to mafia database statistics. I'm an adamant supporter of using D1's as vig shots in lack of a better lynch, and I'll admit it: In this spammy, short post and trolly town, I'm kinda still lacking of reliable clues on who could be likely scum, hence I propose we get rid of Vayne for posting shit. Jack Sparrow at least is improving when asked to. | ||
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Couldn't I get anyone warm for lynching a troll? Guess this forum will never learn. | ||
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I'm just aware that between doing nothing and posting what you call content, he spent his time posting a lot of bullshit, that's also content, and specifically, content lacking town-motivation. If I post 10 one liners with stupid shit and one line of reads, do you ignore all the stupid shit and only evaluate the line of reads for your purposes or do you also take into consideration that I wasted time posting shit, in forming your read on me? | ||
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Also good that you mention Paper. I want to discuss him some more with you since you snapped on him pretty early. Tell me if those parts of his list of reads seem scum motivated to you: CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. | ||
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I think paperscraps is town, i was writing why on a shitty computer i have at my place but the shit stpped working and im back to tablet, will write again when i m back home tonight. | ||
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Found him kinda scummy since the thing with stutters, where he used one argument on paperscraps but not on me. I need still to analyze his other posts more properly though. I suggest that's a good place to start looking if you want to find something weird about hz. | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:33 Clarity_nl wrote: Vivax why is paper town? The thing i found kinda townie is how he treated people of the nullish category more favourably than not. Scum needs to paint people scummy and get a mislynch, being easy going on potential mislynches is something that works against that objective, in case they need to switch to them later, or start a counterwagon. | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:39 hzflank wrote: I think I have made that fairly clear already and it would be based on associations after Paper's flip. I am perfectly willing to answer your question, but first I would like you to answer mine. Why do you want to know my other scum reads while I am obviously pushing hard on Paper? What benefit goes that give you or the town? I want to know if you're trying to figure out the game or just pushing a lynch from an easy tunnel. You tend to paint whatever ps does in unfavourable light, and seem to ignore other possibilities. It's my current subjective impression of your play, and i will reinforce it or correct it when i have the chance to post from a more comfortable place later. | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:43 Clarity_nl wrote: Anyone wanna kill stutters? Yeah, i'd join that boat as well. He is capable of much more d1 when he's town, and having seen him play scum lately, i'm kinda confident i can read him. I would actually enjoy if he posted some more to give us the chane to read him better though, elsewise it's indeed more like a lurker lynch, and it's hard to win people for that. This isn't plurality: / | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:49 justanothertownie wrote: So Paper only giving town reads is townie to you? That's some unusual logic. Is it so unusual that you find it scummy?i'm curious to see you get into the spotlight, and not shout from the sidelines. If you think paperscraps or me are scum, then i'm all ears, cause your post suggests that exactly. | ||
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I'll review all my rather hasty reads and give you my conclusions on mz, JAT and PS. | ||
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I did start to prepare a case on Oats yesterday but I cancelled it shortly after starting. As I was writing it I became less sure that Oats was scum and I did not want to post a case that I did not believe in myself. That is fairly normal for me as I seem to be good at convincing myself that someone is not scum. | ||
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On July 29 2013 01:12 Clarity_nl wrote: Still have no idea who you mean when you say mz HZ. Got it kinda confused with MeapakZiph. | ||
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Time runs out, and if his post of reads isn't massive & impressive I'll want him hanged. | ||
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Among his reads there's this: On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. This is the stuff Oats said before: July 28 2013 02:06 Possibly vivax. One of these dudes is almost surely scum though. Rayn, stutters, Malongo, Vivax. Actually can everyone give their views on Hzflank? I feel that his first post is really bad. July 28 2013 02:13. So anyway about Vayne, he is playing this game totally different from his sole scumgame on site, serious play there, got into a egobitch fight with marv and yeah. None of that here. At all. Meta says he aint scum. Of course, he might just be really good and faking the bullshit but I dont see why he needs to raw attention to himself when he can play perfectly competent town when he rolls scum. July 28 2013 03:14. hey tofu wanna lynch justanothertownie? Why/why not? Read your case, if Im not wrong, it is basically stuff surrounding paperscraps and his 2 wagon shit right? I dunno man, its a lotta conspiracy theory based on scum setting up wagons and leaving himself outs. From what Ive seen, scum dont really leave themself outs. I dunno, your logic is fine, but I feel that exarezee has been posting really clearly and I can see his thought process and all that townie shit. Also not a good idea to kill active poster day 1. If you compare them with PS' post, it doesn't really show the type of match that you would expect for a guy to go all like "WOW OATS WTF SUCH SICK READS MUST BE TOWN" . Rayn, stutters, me , malongo all appear among Oats' reads, but PS doesn't even mention them in his post. I want to see what Ps has to say to this. | ||
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On July 29 2013 01:53 Stutters695 wrote: First is Vivax: It's really interesting to me he's so gung ho on lynching me for inactivity when, of anyone in this game, he would know my activity isn't a tell of my alignment at all. I play when I'm at work/have free time I'm not spending with my girlfriend. That's a constant as scum or town. He attacked me for a single post, before I've really even started playing when a quick one liner is literally my only course of generating discussion when all I have time to do is drop a phone post. He also put the accusation on the back burner to endorse the lynch of another coinflip in Vayne avoiding discussing the actual happenings of the thread. That's off of what I'd expect from Vivax. He usually has a mix of good reads with bad but as a constant he's stubborn and pushes them. I don't see that here. His reason for lynching Hz is practically identical to his reason for lynching me and he still isn't showing the original thoughts I expect from him. Food for thought(i wouldn't bar lynching him off of this but it's interesting ): last two times he's played as scum in a game I've been in he's attempted to lynch me (YANMM & Roulette) as an easy mislynch due to my usually scummy nature. First time he got lynched over me, second time he backed off the read in a fashion very similar to how he backed off of Hz . I don't think he's a d1 lynch right now but if he doesn't start showing up in a meaningful way I'd definitely lynch him. Things like So basically you don't have a stance on it? can be considered generating discussion in your opinion? Especially, PS said something very similar to what I said in that post, and you chose to attack him but not me, I discussed this with hz. I don't know where you got the notion I bolded, can you walk me through it? What constitutes original thought to you? Do you think I'm recycling other people's opinions? | ||
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On July 29 2013 00:55 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Fuck this game. On July 29 2013 00:57 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: ##Vote: Oatsmaster I give up. I don't want to play this game anymore. Autotownread for this, I just don't see scum being such a douche to do this to themselves and their team. But usually shit like this constitutes playing against wincon. | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:21 Clarity_nl wrote: If he's town it's playing against his wincon as well, your logic makes no sense. And yet it's right, I've never seen a player ragequit and flip scum, when the players committment towards his own yh 1 | ||
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Anyway, I won't touch Cora for sure, I think the probable ragequit makes him town. Townies tend to be more egoistical. Stutters, i disagreed cause you reduced my reasons to that single post when they are mroe complex than that. It's true that I found it suspicious that you two went selective on me and paper (which is a fact cause we said the same thing but you only suspected him), but applying that statement to the current situation just isn't right, aside from the fact that I'm currently leaning town on HZ for that part about his Oats post. If he's scum he's a pro actor. So let me recap: You threw shit in from the sidelines, you show really low activity, and you applied your reasoning to PS but not to me. HZ did the same selective thing, but he also tunneled PS in a way I found suspicious cause he tends to interpret what he gets about him in the worst way possible, and replied in your favour when I suspected you, which I found odd at such an early stage. If I get it right, I'm your scumread yes? Then I'm sure you're going to find plenty of reasons for that argument in my filter, I'm eager to hear your case for me being scum. You can claim being busy all you want, I'm also busy every time I roll scum. Looking forward to hear your opinions on other players as well, not just the guy who suspects you. | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:35 FirmTofu wrote: Sorry I lynched you in Bluelightz... Hey guys, I'm just about caught up. I find it extremely suspicious that Vivax has not read/answered my questions about him. Vivax, any reason you've been avoiding me? Yes, I'm human, I'm not at home, I can also be lazy, and I focused on my scumreads. Is anyone who didn't post anything about you scum now? | ||
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Hey guys, I'm just about caught up. I find it extremely suspicious that Vivax has not read/answered my questions about him. Vivax, any reason you've been avoiding me? So you think what I do is extremely suspicious but I didn't say you were scum, not sure how you jumped to that conclusion I'll answer your questions, but explain me this one in the meantime. | ||
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This is so off...isn't it? He just said "fuck lurker lynches", but then votes a lurker. What? Either way, this could just be a pressure vote, working as more bait. This is getting into semantics on what constitutes a lurker, but I voted stutters cause he posted a loaded question that was in no way useful for finding scum, and then fucked off. Now he claimed being busy, but I voted him cause I found that part scummy, not cause of some category I put him into. Bolded relevant. He's flip-flopping on his stance on lurkers again. Is Day 1 a crapshoot or not, Vivax? Should we be lynching scum or lurkers, Vivax? Can you please be more clear as to where you stand on this issue? I think we should lynch lurkers, not scum. Hope this illustrates the value of your question. | ||
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But I think I'll read his whole filter first. | ||
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In the context of Tofu pushing XRZ it might actually have some value in giving him a townread, it simply fits with the timing where he votes and pushes him, so I think it could actually be a good town indicator. If it were some random zomg scumslip with no context I'd treat it as null, but in this case it's a fine towntell. | ||
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@Tofu I don't get what's hard to follow. I say what I find scummy about whom, and I want to lynch people who exclusively post bullshit and sows with ducklings, and people who don't post jack, especially D1 should be used to do the latter. I don't have an internal switch lurker lynch/scum lynch, I have a "get rid of liabilities and lynch scummy people" mindset, that's all. If I switch target frequently it's cause I adapt. | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:17 exarezee wrote: Let's assume you are scum and have labeled someone else scum and do a filter of their posts. You find a post by theirs that you think is really bad and will lend support to your cause. Would you not be excited? There's the other side of the medal, you already know the other guy is town and will elaborate that post according to that mindset, not believe he's scumslipping. But yeah, I see where you're coming from. I use these little things in getting townreads, but ultimately one has to judge the overall picture. You want to lynch FT quite badly I take? | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:50 hzflank wrote: I don't know what to do with Koshi at this point. I cannot push him because he is convinced that I am scum and is just avoiding my questions. Unless someone else can get something good out of Koshi then I am going to have to assume that he is scum. Can someone else try, please? I have that feeling he was mimicking my own targets, and he doesn't really push anything, more like constantly communicating who he would lynch. I don't like his style of play as opposed to the last game I was in with him. But I really like the chap and hence will give him some extra leeway, only day 1 though, koshibro, please show some more ambition D2 :>. I'd like to see more from stutters than just stuff about me. Gonna sift through PS and JAT again after dinner. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote JustAnotherTownie On July 27 2013 20:13 justanothertownie wrote: Hey guys, just caught up. First impressions: I don't like Paperscraps. First he joins the lurker discussion without adding any content, then he starts to jump on exarezee without any good reason (I'm not really convinced that it was just a joke) and when he gets a little heat for it he totally backs off. I really hate this: So this is not serious at all? Add to this how he didn't post anything since he noticed people getting suspicious. To me he is the scummiest player so far. Also I'm annoyed by CJS. Going through his filter I can't find anything valuable - he just didn't say anything until this point (apart from fluff). Im quoting Oats here, from his case cause I think it's already an accurate argument. justanothertownie thinks its not a joke. But he doesnt explain why scum would do it, summerizes Paperscraps actions and just says its scummy. Scum take jokes seriously cause they play the game seriously. Similarly, this also applies to his last post: On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote: For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. What? Please explain this. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person... Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps He basically quotes the guys he disagrees about and uses that as argument that PS is a good lynch. Of these, he only shows different opinions on Vayne and koshi in the same post. I would love to lynch VA for his attitude towards the game but if he always plays like this then there is nothing about him that indicates any alignment. But I would like to know why Vayne thinks Oats voting Tofu is good? Also I'm still not content with Koshis explanation of his reads. So you actually don't have any scumread anymore besides the troll and the lurkers? JAT seems to disagree with PS's read that Oats is town, yet I don't see a single instance in JAT's filter that suggests that he thinks Oats is scum. All Oats is guilty of is attacking JAT initially. JAT's reasons look like a load of bollocks, and we should lynch him. | ||
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On July 29 2013 05:22 Koshi wrote: Vivax You don't think JAT is new to the game? Is he? Even if he was, it still wouldn't explain why he lists Oats as read he disagrees with but never attacks him. If he's town and deliberately not openly talking about the players he finds suspicious, but lists them as not-town as means to attack somebody else, then he must be not just super newb, but super newb not wanting to play or solve the game. Koshi, you included him in your list and then retreated from it, mind telling me what you initially found scummy about his first two posts, and what changed your opinion later? On July 28 2013 04:41 Koshi wrote: Oh I missed that question earlier. I was wrong about you. I don't think you are scummy anymore. I thought you were scummy because of your first 2 posts. But now it seems more like you didn't had a good feel into this game yet and tried your luck with making 2 cases. I am actually leaning town on you now. | ||
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On July 29 2013 05:24 Malongo wrote: And it doesnt help me either that when I wake up I have to read 10 or more pages (and honestly didnt read with high proficiency). Our biggest problem right now is the lack of leads 3 hours to lynch. Thats why hz is still my prime suspect, I found it really bad when he posted about "consolidating 1 or 2 wagos early instead of pushing the lurkers". Clearly he wants to push Paper (wich is null to me atm) and every time he gets into an argument with someone his defence or case is slightly helped by other player around uninvolved. Read what other people has to say about him. Explain that bolded part to me. When you assume somebody is scum, shouldn't you be more acquainted with his reasons to push his suspects? You are supposed to find out if his cases are on townies, and pushed with scummy arguments. That said, is it possible you didn't get an opinion on your scumreads' scumread while analyzing him? | ||
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On July 29 2013 05:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax what do you think about FT? I really didn't like his questions to me, they looked like loaded questions of the "Why do you beat your wife" sort, and him saying he doesn't think I'm scum after finding me extremely suspicion was also boggling, to say the least. Being presented with the scumslip thing and the way he pushed me I was left with a rather townish feeling, plus the fact that he wasn't staying in a comfy tunnel as XRZ was trying to suggest to me. Your take on my arguments against JAT? | ||
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Conclusion: I'm actually a little bit surprised that Paper has been this scummy. If you hadn't made me filter dive, I don't think I would have this read on him. I agree, Paperscraps is quite scummy all things considered. However, his posting does seem genuine. I think that if we give him another day, he'll be able to redeem himself. It's funny, Tofu, you actually bring some good arguments to the table (the "vote for me if you want" one), except for the reads. Do you automatically assume that wrong=scum? What makes me curious is that you want someone who is scummy to redeem himself? Is he scum or is he not scum? If he's scummy and you think is scummy, why exactly do you want him to redeem himself? | ||
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On July 29 2013 05:41 Malongo wrote: I got a little lost there, I read it as: you want me to elaborate more on Paper right? Yes. You think hz is scum, but your read on his scumread is null. That implies you didn't read your scumreads cases, which is pretty weird for you if you didn't. What exactly did you read of hz that makes you think he's scum if you don't agree or disagree with his case on PS? If hz is scum as you say, his case on PS should show some fallacies or scummy traits somewhere, no? | ||
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On July 29 2013 06:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax talk to me. What are your current thoughts? I can tell what my last thoughts were: If PS, JAT and FT are all scum then this game was ezpz. I was also tempted to add malongo as fourth cause his null read on PS was really weird since FLANK was pushing the guy all the time. Of the three though, I'm most confident into lynching JAT. Will see if I can find some more arguments soon, after I've finished watching a movie. | ||
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On July 29 2013 06:31 Clarity_nl wrote: There's been no one trying to lynch anyone other than FT Paper and JAT today, at least nothing else got traction. I'll consolidate, obviously, and rayn has a point about Malongo as I read more of his other games, but this is bitter. I'm not so sure about Vivax, I've had him as null all day and vayne's case is 90% meta, so let's give him another day. I guess out of those three I would prefer Paper...? I mean his wagon started early and he has looked scummy (although more bad than scum), plus he probably has the most association attached to him which'll help day 2. I felt like Koshi was getting scummier and scummier but the way he's just insistently and badly pushing for an hz lynch just makes no sense to me from a scum perspective. Vayne's case is not just only meta, it's also saying things without proving them by quoting my posts. Especially the trivial things part is interesting. Does he think any argument I brought up so far is trivial? I'd like to hear which one. | ||
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I'm more sure of JAT being scum than PS, and that makes me pretty doubtful. | ||
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This is a bit from PS which I find pretty townie. HZ actually used this as point AGAINST him, which was one of the points I found myself disagreeing with. The change of mind shit after rereading is something rather townie imho. Hey, do you still think exarezee is a good lynch for today? I am leaning town on him right now. If anything I think there are better lynches, such as Vivax or JAT. Also I think my initial read on hzflank was hasty, after re reading his filter I find him being a possible lynch choice as well. | ||
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You start to look scummy to me because you are killing town atmosphere and keeping tunneling me with that joke of a case. | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:46 Paperscraps wrote: It is a decent post, slightly biased through the lens of hzflank who already at that point scum reads me. You are seeing what you want to see in my posts. I could defend every point you made against me, but right now I don't think that would be beneficial since I am beginning to town read you again. We could go into the psychology of mafia and how people want to think their first choice is right, but really you should realize with all the flak I am getting from everyone right now, the chances of me flipping scum is very low. I am all alone here, this is day 1. Tofu made a pretty big shift in the recent pages, going from totally being against my lynch to voting me. I am not saying I don't have reasons to be voted with what everyone is throwing at me, but it doesn't seem like a natural shift at all. Where did his backbone go? Does he not scum read exarezee anymore? Is exarezee bussing me now? A closer look at Tofu right now would be great. @anyone How much time until the deadline? I agree that Tofu's switch was everything except good looking. He doesn't seem to fight much for his own reads. Can you tell me what you thought were those amazing reads from Oats that made you townread him in your list post? | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:55 exarezee wrote: I'm still confused as to who is bussing who. Bussing = mafia throwing another mafia under the bus right? Who do you think is doing this. What he meant imo is that FT thinks you and Paper are both scum, and that PS says that Tofu is supposed to ask himself if it makes sense for you to bus Paperscraps. A good point imo. | ||
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Unless there are more votes going to pile up for you I guess I don't see why you should. It really seems like something weird to say to your scumread when it offers you to defend itself against some points you just asked to be paid attention to. | ||
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##Paperscraps Consolidating. Man, this D1 was fucking tough. Too many people I'm not used playing with. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:19 FirmTofu wrote: Wait, what happened in between the last two pages that shifted your read so dramatically? You were pursuing Paper and now suddenly you think Koshi is confirmed scum? Do you think it's even worth considering that Rayn could be scum? What happened to your XRZ scumread actually. PS asked a good question: Why do you think it's so likely that XRZ is bussing PS so early?Cause that's what your current reads foot on. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:23 Koshi wrote: Let me explain how rayns thinks: Koshi tunnels hzflank. I think that hz is town. Koshi must be scum. I will tunnel Koshi. My play looks perfect town. No. Koshi has HZ scumread. Koshi asks people to consider Malong's points against hz. HZ asks Koshi if he wants to hear what he has to say. Koshi says no. | ||
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I'm willing to do a switch to either FT->JAT->Koshi . In sum, the shit FT does is becoming too much. His questions to me were scummy, his switch to PS was fucking weird, and I don't like at all how he is so willing to let loose of XRZ. Koshi last cause he's a bro. | ||
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##Vote FirmTofu #Yolo | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:33 Paperscraps wrote: I could vote FT, his lynch would provide useful information. I bet a lot more people are in the dark on his alignment than mine. Wtf you made this voteswitch just taste a lot more badly. How does it provide us more information? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Paperscraps | ||
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Why do you have to look so townie at deadline. | ||
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##Unvote | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:01 hzflank wrote: Vivax knows that if Paper flips red then he (Vivax) looks bad. Just keep the votes on Paper and hope he flips red. It's funny cause you and koshi say opposite things. Why don't you two start talking about it. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:02 raynpelikoneet wrote: There is no reason why town Vivax should take his vote off Paper. Vivax explain? I thought he was town for his martyring. That's my explanation. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:08 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can we now kill FT, Koshi, Vivax ok? Are you dumb or something. You think I'm scum for attempting no lynch on a townie? If you think I want cred for that, no thanks, whatever you do to read me, base it on my other play. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:08 Koshi wrote: Did you know that we would still lynch Vivax? No. I just did it. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:19 justanothertownie wrote: fml... I really have to reevaluate most of my reads now. I will do so tomorrow. Vivax doesn't look good for this unvote btw. Can't see a good town reason to do it but scum could try to get town cred. Yeah, look at all that cred I'm getting for unvoting when everyone is screaming to keep my vote on. Also, nice delurk. | ||
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JAT is one example.His reasons for voting PS were shit. Will follow with others after rereading. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:29 exarezee wrote: you almost caused a no lynch. You want town cred for that? The fact that paper flips town is irrelevant to your play. Indeed, but my play was also suicidal and unnecessary for scum. Or do you think I'd have SUCH massive balls as scum to pull such a stunt? | ||
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So, about that scumread of yours on me.. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax is trying to prove his tonwniness by the proxy of "scum would not do this". We are talking about a guy who has shot his own scumbuddy as mafia here... Are you scum? If all of my other play didn't suggest to you that I'm scum, how is it so hard for you to accept that I simply did what I thought was the best course of action? | ||
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It's a massively retarded assumption that I would take this risk in my relatively good position, and that without outcome. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:50 VayneAuthority wrote: Hey I said anyone except paper! oh well. Gj, you did nothing to push a better lynch, instead you voted another townie. | ||
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On July 29 2013 09:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: I don't think you are in a "relatively good position". Precisely, I wanted to achieve that all along, that was my master scum plan, that is what you're suggesting. I wasn't in a bad position, only guy wanting to lynch me was vayne. Desperate scum play requires desperate situations, that situation wasn't desperate at all for me. I made it abundantly clear that I thought PS was townie, and only cause I have grown a bigger pair than you, I have attempted to save him from lynch. If anything, what you and stutters did fits more into the profile for how scum would try to gain cred. Try to start a bandwagon that is doomed to fail anyway, switch back, nothing changes, you look better. Meanwhile, you were crying that PS was oh so townie, but alas, we can't no lynch. Grow a pair and do it if you think he's 95% townie, dumbo. | ||
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On July 29 2013 10:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah because you fuckers didn't vote for either Koshi or FT until it was too late. Why are you so angry? Cause I know I'm not scum, and cause I feel I did the right thing, albeit it ended up not accomplishing anything. Plus, I would like if people judged me on my overall play and not just that stunt. I do crazy shit as both town and scum, and while this was crazy from the point of view of my own safety, I feel that accomplishing a no lynch would have been the right thing. | ||
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On July 29 2013 10:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: FT's reads were full of shit. All he said is pretty colors and "that might change". Again, you're looking at the quality, not the motivation. What scum goes all like "wait a moment I'll post my reads" in face of a wagon that's not even that threatening. That was 25 minutes pre-lynch. Additionally, I don't feel you should be saying his Koshi read was full of shit when he's one of your prime suspects. | ||
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On July 29 2013 10:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why would you look only for motivation and not quality? Low quality is characteristic for scum posts.. For scum to display a quality, it first requires a motivation. That said, FTs "Oh you wanna lynch me?Sec getting reads before i die" motivation is fairly townie in my opinion. At least it's far from something I'd expect scum to do in that situation with limited time. I'd rather expect them to start blabbing about the danger of no lynching and shit. | ||
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On July 29 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's also funny that you are now defending a guy you switched your vote on at the last second.. On July 29 2013 10:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Like.. really funny. Scummy funny. On July 29 2013 09:11 Vivax wrote: First of all, my vote on Ft didn't represent my current read. I just had to do it to avoid warning/modkill. I actually think FT's read post makes him likely town at this point. If you're a vigi and want to play "classic" vigi, shoot JAT for lurking at deadline, or shoot Vayne for posting shit all the time, or shoot me for lying about what I did at deadline, preferably, shoot JAT for being lurky scum. I would appreciate if you didn't do the latter but I understand that you must if you feel you must. I'll do my best to show that I'm too valuable to be shot. Off to reading D1 again. | ||
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For comparison: On April 23 2013 11:27 Clarity_nl wrote: Trending topic is oats, and I honestly have no idea. From what I remember he didn't used to be trolly as either alignment. He could be a policy "you're a dick" lynch but there are better lynches out there, like.... Sharrant "If you give me the right answer I'll leave you alone" This irked me, this notion always irks me. If you're "pressuring" by saying exactly what someone should do to get you off their back, then you are not pressuring. This is an easy way for scum to appear to scumhunt with an easy out. So Sharrant gets his answer, with the answer being the obvious (and as rayn points out, already said before). "I didn't like the miller claim" That's what Sharrant accept as a satisfactory answer? What other answer could there be? Asking questions that only have one answer, regardless of alignment, is useless. Yet it's easy to skim over these two posts and have it seems as if he contributed. Who posts in a way that seems like they contribute, but don't? Scum do. Here Sharrant is saying: "Hopeless is doing this thing that makes him scummy, I shall watch him and see if he keeps doing it" Another easy out, telling the person you're "pressuring" exactly what they need to do (or not do in this case) to avoid being pressured more. More empty threats and easy outs. And more.... Not even indicating any read, just asking for reads from another player. More of this: Just scattershot. Ask everyone for their opinion and you'll get everyone's opinion. It's not pressure, there is no direction or follow-up with these questions, it's simply a shallow attempt to seem involved. One other thing I'd like to point out is his consistent "I'm here now, I'm leaving now" updates. The comments about him cooking, the promises to look over players later or that he's waiting for more information, or this gem: They all scream insecurity, which is in stark contrast with his "pressure" posts which have an air of misguided authority about them. All his posts scream "look at me I'm active and contributing" without actually contributing, All his other posts scream insecurity. Sharrant is scum. ##Vote Sharrant On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? Anyway, disagree completely with your conclusion which you reached a full 7 minutes after I asked (excluding when you actually read my post and made your own) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, I'm back on a computer. This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: To all of you that are out there... Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote: Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if 1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:00 Koshi wrote: Vivax what do you think of this ? hz reaction earlier towards oats is saying that he is scum for defending Paper. Yeah, that's freaking weird. I initially thought you were overreading that, and that he was saying you were readin PS town as argument against him. But he's actually saying you want to use PS' lynch against him cause you believe he's town, which makes no sense. | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:08 justanothertownie wrote: Well Oats, I'm not a smurf but I will take that as a compliment ... I guess. Yes, I didn't contribute before the deadline because I was fucking tired and everything went according to plan. We were lynching my scumread. I just critisized Vivax because his unvote looked extremely scummy to me at that moment. I am at work now an don't have time to read filters but I promise I will be way more active when I get home. People starting a counterwagon on someone other than your scumread is everything went according to plan ? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 02:32 Koshi wrote: Again you defend Vayne for some meta bullshit. My current lynchpool 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 13. justanothertownie I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank clarity_nl Oatsmaster I already forgot why On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote: Yes, my read on you was justifiable at that point but where do you see a lot of posts that would indicate this? Sounds weird to me. I would love to lynch VA for his attitude towards the game but if he always plays like this then there is nothing about him that indicates any alignment. But I would like to know why Vayne thinks Oats voting Tofu is good? Also I'm still not content with Koshis explanation of his reads. So you actually don't have any scumread anymore besides the troll and the lurkers? For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. What? Please explain this. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person... Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote: My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank | ||
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On July 29 2013 19:15 justanothertownie wrote: They did. But I didn't see them succeeding. Which are the 4 people you would lynch next, gut-wise? | ||
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Clarity, XRZ, hzflank, Rayn, JAT, Vayne are my new suspects with Papers flip in mind. Stutters gives me a fairly townie impression now, and Koshi has actually been very transparent, and doesn't use my voteswitch as autoscum argument like Rayn does. This is kinda funny, still have to make somewhat conclusive cases on the dudes though. On July 28 2013 23:57 Clarity_nl wrote: kinda, lets wait to see what rayn and stutters have to say before discussing it What I notice though is the way especially Clarity, XRZ and JAT make their cases. They are all of the sort: [list] [*] Quote post [*] This guy is doing x scummy shit [*] Quote post [*] Then he did x scummy shit [*] Quote post [*] rinse repeat [list] It's the sort of post someone makes when he goes through someone's filter with the intent in mind to find as much scummy shit as he can, and to paint whatever he finds as scummy. This was also my issue with FLANK, the guy painted whatever he found about PS in the worst way possible, even things I considered to be townie, for example his change of mind, and his kinda positive reads on null people. What I also noticed is that Flank agreed with me on JAT being scummy early in the game, but doesn't give a fuck about him for the rest of the game. He also said he was reluctant to pursue him cause he didn't trust Oats, which is kinda bullshit, I've almost never seen a townier Oats than in this game. Here are examples for the Case-from-scum pattern I see: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? Anyway, disagree completely with your conclusion which you reached a full 7 minutes after I asked (excluding when you actually read my post and made your own) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, I'm back on a computer. This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: To all of you that are out there... Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote: Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if 1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. On July 27 2013 13:23 exarezee wrote: I'm getting more and more distressed by paperscrap's posts. He starts off posting ok and it is just deteriorating. Pretty generic 1st post. I assumed when he said to lynch all lurkers it was a joke. 2nd post. A pretty safe post leaving himself wiggle room. Says he doesn't mind voting a lurker because they are a libability later in the game. True, but it's more of a liability to lose the game before we get to late game. Backs it up that it's hard to get a read...reinforcing his idea that it's not a bad idea to lynch a lurker. So he knows that we need interactions between the dead and alive to figure out this game. How does he still advocate lynching a lurker? It is basically a waste of a day to lynch someone with few to no interactions. Have the vigilante shoot them for crying out loud or force the scum to night kill them. Leaves for a bit then comes back with this. I've thrown him the softest of scum leans and he comes back with a 1 liner. Notice how none of his previous posts have been similar to this at all. This is just terrible on so many different levels. I'm not even sure how to interpret this. It makes you look scummy at worst or a useless townie at best. I have absolutely 0 idea why you would post this if you were a townsperson. On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote: snip For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. What? Please explain this. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person... Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps | ||
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On July 29 2013 20:15 hzflank wrote: There is a very big difference between thinking that someone is scum and knowing that someone is scum. Especially on day 1. You said he was voting PS so he could push you in case he turned up town, which is nonsensical for someone who thought PS was scum. You know my half-a-dozen scumreads, if you want to help me get a better read of you, could you give me your opinion on them?If they aren't your scumbuddies it should end up being unbiased and you have nothing to fear. | ||
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I thought that Paper was the most likely to flip scum on day 1. I think that it is rare to actually lynch scum on day 1, so that means that I thought there was a 50% or so chance of Paper being scum. I thought that there was less chance of each other person being scum. I paint whatever Paper does in a scummy light because I think he is scum. I am not going to phrase things like I think Paper is a shining beacon of town while I am pushing a case on him. As I have already explained in this thread, my early vote on Paper was not meant to stick. I did not intend to tunnel him but I think that his posts were bad enough to warrant me pushing for his lynch. In no instance you show ANY doubt about Paper, pulling a 50 % chance out of your bum looks terrible, especially in light of the fact you did never listen to any arguments I have shown you for PS being town, instead you tried to use them against him. If you were really so convinced about Paper being scum, then that doesn't need a 50 % justification. During the day, you often defended yourself against the accusation that you're tunneling him. Yet you also said you would paint things scummy cause you thought he was scum. In summary, you lack the sense of righteousness you should have if you were a townie. You do cause you realize that the post to Koshi looks terrible, and you need to make something up to justify that you noticed that Koshi was pushing you, and would have used PS flip against you. That wouldn't have been your concern if you were town genuinely believing that PS was scum, you would have rather argued that Koshi was bussing his teammate now that he didn't manage to defend him. Instead you argued that he would have used PS' flip against you. Now you have to weaken your retrospective scumread on PS to make up for that mistake. That's my take. Any particular point you think I'm wrong about? Do you realize why I'm suspicious of you? | ||
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I think I like his last post, that said, I'll need more time to evaluate Flank's play, andI very probably won't lynch him tomorrow. I prefer focusing on other dudes for now. That said, Koshi, you have lacked some assertivity in your last posts (some were provocative) and I would like to hear more from you. Who do we lynch if it isn't Flank? | ||
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1. Scummy, 2. Terrible. XRZ is basically summarizing points he disagrees about with PS, and using that as reason to push him as scum, then uses any other stuff against him as well. It's not a clean "I think this dude is scum cause I think scum would do xyz and town abc", it's a bunch of posts along with commentary about anything negative they could contain. If you look at the cases by clarity, JAT and XRZ I posted, you will notice they all have that pattern. The same pattern from clarity's case in the LXI game you also played in, the same case which got clarity lynched (although not just for the pattern, but for some other reasons).. | ||
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On July 27 2013 18:37 exarezee wrote: It's difficult to ascertain tone and sarcasm and some of these less subtle jokes on the internet. I even indicated I thought paperscraps was joking early on. But when posts have 0 use and possibly 0 intentions of helping the scum hunt...then it's not really a funny joke anymore. Paperscrap's posts were really poor imo for a townie, but I can accept the possibility that he was "not being serious". I don't find the indication he's mentioning in his filter, does anyone else? I just see him using PS' joke posts against PS. That said, I wonder why XRZ doesn't mind Vayne bullshitting up the thread with obvious troll posts up until this point, and only has eyes for PS, that isn't consistent at all with his indication that he thinks bullshit posts aren't townie (the underlined part) I also don't understand why he says he can accept the possibility of the posts being joke posts when it ends up having no relevance for his read. He still keeps pushing him afterwards. @ Clarity I'm not just thowing three accusations and seeing what sticks. I'm seeing three people who I think have a chance at being scum make cases in very similar ways. Going through post by post in their target's filter and summarize things that are supposed to attract people to the wagon. It's true that what got you caught in LXI wasn't just the style of the case, but it's also true that it's the style of case you made as scum. If you're indeed town and want me to convince on it, it would be appreciated if you gave me your insight on my other suspects. You can imagine I'm interested in seeing how you guys interact with each other. | ||
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On July 29 2013 22:23 raynpelikoneet wrote: One thing that bothers me about exarezee is that he says he has played 200 games of mafia but has no idea what wifom means.. So what, is he scum for that? | ||
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Two of Vayne/Clarity/JAT pretty much. I'm not stopping to post this night until I've convinced town that XRZ is scum. Case incoming. | ||
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Am I not scum any more rayn? | ||
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On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote: I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1. I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. This guy thinks PS joke vote still makes him scum. Remember his previous post where he said he could accept the possibility that it was a joke post? Well yeah, he doesn't. That post was perfectly pointless, he's waffling around PS and FT, and thinks they are both scum for their votes on him. All other reasons XRZ mentioned in his case don't seem to matter any more, as shown in the next post. On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote: I forgot to address your other point hzflank. I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him. Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. This post is important. Why? Cause it proves XRZ's previous case was bad, and scummy, like I said. He summarized some points he thought PS was wrong about and used them against him, and only one point was the joke post PS made. What's scummy? All the other points XRZ mentioned in his case don't matter at all now. The only thing he's deeming important now is that joke post by PS, and he says that if he believed that it was really a joke post by PS, then it would only become a slight scum lean, effectively admitting that all points XRZ previously mentioned against PS didn't really matter to him, proving his "case" was fake. | ||
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One correction though: thinks they are both scum for their votes on him XRZ emphasizes that he only thinks one of the guys is scum, not that both are, cause it would "attract too much attention to scum to vote him like that". | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:09 Oatsmaster wrote: So bad tunneling townie or scum Vivax? I dunno, Im willing to let him stay alive for a bit and lynch other dudes first. Did you read it, Oats? Did you understand it? Doesn't seem like. He's ignoring his own reasons for having PS as scumread, basing evertyhing on that joke post even though he mentioned other reasons as well. What did he write those other points for, in your opinion?All that shit about lurker discussion PS was apparently wrong about, if he then starts judging PS only for one thing. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:14 Oatsmaster wrote: I did read it. And it could be bad tunneling townie. And you think bad tunneling townies forget their reasons for calling someone scum like that? How is it tunneling anyway if he throws away his case to weaken his own read of PS? He could have gone like: "Joke post or not, he's still scum for the other reasons I mentioned". That would have been tunneling townie. Instead he doesn't care about his OWN REASONS. How is that even tunneling townie. Jesus christ, Oats. How do you explain he's ignoring Vayne for posting trash when saying this: Posting some fluff for the sake of posting and then disappearing is not. I'd rather he didn't post at all, or just make a "i'm going to bed see you guys tomorrow" post instead. But when posts have 0 use and possibly 0 intentions of helping the scum hunt...then it's not really a funny joke anymore. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have already explained why it's easy to fake finding a scumslip, and why it might even be beneficial. Do i really need to quote my own posts regarding that? The scumslip thing is not alignment indicative. Cool story bro. You could also post reasons for why he's scum. Not just fight reasons for which others give him a townread. | ||
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You want an explanation why I didn't pay attention to FT's case? Didn't read it. I found him scummy since he complained about me avoiding his questions, not for his case, and I didn't pay attention to XRZ at the time. I'll also add that while me and FT often mention the same posts, our observations and conclusions seem to be different. That's what I get from having just looked through his case at least. I argue that XRZ is scum for mentioning reasons he stops seeing as important, unless I missed something that's not an argument Tofu uses. The part we have in common is the way XRZ could accept that it was a joke post, but doesn't really get conclusive on it. | ||
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On July 29 2013 23:46 exarezee wrote: And to address your main case against me Virax. I lessened my scum read on papers when he posted that his entire day of posts was a joke. The higher the chance I think he was actually joking the whole time, then, the less scummy I deem his posts. However, the next time he comes to the thread, he goes back on the fact that his entire day was a joke. He said that he was trying to get a read from me. Is trying to get a read from someone a joke? The rest of his day's posts were poor too. That is what reinforced my read on him as a scum. It's not that his entire day of posts was a joke, his vote on you was a joke, and his "let's go lurk" post was sarcastic. You also used arguments in his previous posts, where he discusses lurker lynching, against him. Oats, weren't you the guy who said that scum doesn't get jokes? Why do you have such a hardon for defending this guy? Anyway, XRZ's waffling on the joke shit was ridiculous. Here again, the points of his case: 2nd post. A pretty safe post leaving himself wiggle room. Says he doesn't mind voting a lurker because they are a libability later in the game. True, but it's more of a liability to lose the game before we get to late game. Backs it up that it's hard to get a read...reinforcing his idea that it's not a bad idea to lynch a lurker. So he knows that we need interactions between the dead and alive to figure out this game. How does he still advocate lynching a lurker? It is basically a waste of a day to lynch someone with few to no interactions. Have the vigilante shoot them for crying out loud or force the scum to night kill them. This is part of XRZ's case on PS, and these parts so far are simply points he disagrees about with PS, and yet he uses it to push him as scum target. ______________________________________________________ These are the points PS joked about that XRZ uses against him. Leaves for a bit then comes back with this. I've thrown him the softest of scum leans and he comes back with a 1 liner. Notice how none of his previous posts have been similar to this at all. This is just terrible on so many different levels. I'm not even sure how to interpret this. It makes you look scummy at worst or a useless townie at best. I have absolutely 0 idea why you would post this if you were a townsperson. Now I ask you again, even if XRZ assumed that the last two were joke posts, how did his first two arguments have any value as argument for PS being scum? If he mentions them to prove that PS is scum, why does he ignore them when he's told that PS was joking about the last two, but the first two still apply, cause they clearly were serious? The answer is that his first two arguments for PS being scum were not just bad, but also were only posted to push a mislynch on PS, they hold no scumhunting value EVEN for the same guy who posted them, and that's why he stops considering them even when the last two arguments were possibly invalid. | ||
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On July 30 2013 01:06 hzflank wrote: Wait a second... You would lynch both Koshi and me? Why? What is it about the interactions between Koshi and I that look scum-scum to you? He said to take this with a grain of salt. So he can tell you his fake reads and still justify it when people realize he's lying. | ||
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I thought it was standard nightvig, not vig that shoots at any time. Anyway I want the real vig to shoot Vayne 10 minutes into Day 1. I actually want a gun so I can shoot the fucker myself. | ||
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I wish I rolled mafia in this town :/ | ||
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On July 30 2013 02:18 Clarity_nl wrote: Yeah okay fuck Vayne and vig him once its day unless hes done something useful during this nightphase. ++ towniepoints On July 30 2013 02:20 Koshi wrote: WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU SHOOTING VAYNE YOU FUCKERS? WE GOT A PERFECT SCUM TARGET IN HZFLANK AND YOU ARE GOING TO SHOOT SOMEBODY WHO IS ANNOYING? YOU SCUM VIVAX? -- towniepoints | ||
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On July 30 2013 02:47 VayneAuthority wrote: I think that the roulette setup was stupid and shitty so you didn't really care as much. Also the fact that your PR got killed first day. I think hzflank is a lot scummier than you anyway after his interaction with koshi. Read like shit so ill be voting him unless anything really weird happens tonight or tomorrow. What exactly didn't you like about hzflank, honeybear? | ||
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What's your take on Vayne, Rayn, Clarity, Koshi etc etc., what are your current scumreads? | ||
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On July 30 2013 03:38 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, first thing I have to do is take my scum accusation on Vivax back. I went through his filter and it looks really, really townie. Among other, less important reasons because of those: He defended Paper very early when there was no reason for scum to do so. He attacked me with a stupid case but backed off a little when he noticed he overlooked something I said. His logic for the case against xrz looks good. I don't know if I agree with the whole case though (have to look at xrz again before). He generally makes sense. The only things I don't understand are: Why do you compare case patterns, Vivax? Is it because you think one player writes them for the whole scumteam? I think that would be too obvious and very stupid. I still don't like your unvote. You claim to have not known the fact that Paper still would be lynched at that point and that you wanted to cause a no-lynch. I can't understand this. If you would have succeeded then we would be in the dark for a whole cycle where we can't really analyse based on any facts. I personally find that to be horrible. Besides you would be extremely likely to be mislynched the next day because of your unvote. It wastes a whole cycle... The only kind of reasonable explanation (at least for me) for the unvote is that you are scum and you knew Paper would still be lynched, so you tried to get town cred/fuck with other peoples minds. I am not sure that this is the case because you are so townie after all and because I have to admit it would be really bold for scum to make this stunt so for now you are town to me, but it's still weird. No, it has to do with the way scum attacks others. Pick target -> Find every post that could look townie in his filter -> Quote them -> Write a bunch of scummy shit you can find in each post -> Summarize, say X IS SCUM, GET ON HIM -> Vote -> Contribution finished. | ||
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Another really good example is scumArtanis in Pick your Power Boardwalk Empire, just look at the pattern, it's amazingly similar to what clarity and xrz wrote. On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Hi Geript. Translates to Why on earth would a townie post this? WHY? Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me. Investigation and protective roles are truly awful for town. Who'd want less KP at night in the game, right? This post apparently makes Mocsta town. In what world can scum not make a post like this? What is it about this post that makes you read him as this apparent townMocsta? Also, as Mocsta already brought up On its own it's not lynchworthy, but with how poorly scumript has been playing so far I'd say this adds to the case. Vote scum. Vote Geript. | ||
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On July 30 2013 04:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax, you have a point in your logic regarding those people. I think exazeree looks really fucking awful with his latest contributions. I am not sure about Clarity, he looks like a really bright dude. Who was the third person, JAT? I'm not sure about him either, there were some townie things i pointed out to Oats i found out about him near the lynch. What do you think of them? Also, flank looks like he has a fucking red stamp painted all over him if i ignore the Oats stuff he said. Should i ignore that? Koshi looks significantly better by his contributiond on N1. FT has disappeared and i think he is mafia. Thoughts? I didn't like how JAT joined the PS wagon especially. His reasons were a bunch of disagreements he had with PS's reads, and he seems to lack townie drive (that is quite subjective though, basically communicating as much as possible, pointing out scummy things, try to let yourself get heard) and the activity is generally underwhelming, Not sure what to make of his latest post where he townreads me, I agree with all the reasons, but I don't know why he thinks this is the time to write a townread post on me, if anything it increases the chance I get NKd, although it's probably pretty high anyway cause I can already get away with the shit I've done between almost no-lynching and fakeclaiming vig. FT hardpushed XRZ, I believe you'll have to pick one of them cause i don't see that being a bus at all. What I didn't like about Clarity was his FT case and that he's being rather in the sidelines during this night aside from a few post, but I didn't go through his whole filter yet. I'm not very fond of you either tbh. | ||
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On July 30 2013 04:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can we agree on Oats and Cora being town vivax? Yeah sure. | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, I'm back on a computer. This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: To all of you that are out there... Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote: Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if 1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. ========================================================================================= If you actually went through the trouble of looking at the context of FT's post at the time, he posted it right after Vayne posted the gif of the gal with the crooked teeth, and Koshi counted to 3 in the thread. He didn't complain about the lurker discussion, he complained about general bullshit posting. ========================================================================================= Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. ========================================================================================= That wasn't a vote to kill scum, that was a vote to get XRZ to post his scumreads. And he backed off the moment he did it. Did you really think that made FT scum? You are saying he just did it for the sake of voting. I see a guy using his vote to get information for town, don't you think? ========================================================================================= But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. ========================================================================================= Do scum love giving townreads? I don't know man. It really depends. It usually means they can hardly push suspicion on the guy they townread without having to explain themselves for the townread. In fact, you can catch scum by finding unexplainable townreads. As for your other arguments, I don't understand why someone can't assume that people who post fluff and make themselves hard to read are scum. How does that opinion make FT scum?Like, what's so scum agenda-like about what he was doing? ========================================================================================= This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. ========================================================================================= Did FT exclusively post that and not do anything else? Had that been the case, then this argument might have been valid, but given that Tofu had shown enough effort before, I don't think this applies at all. ========================================================================================= I really don't like this case broski. | ||
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On July 30 2013 05:16 exarezee wrote: Wait and see. Again, I've never played in a game where you can talk N1. I usually have more information to work with at this stage. I have to leave in about 1hr 15 min and will be gone for the rest of N1 phase, but I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow. And If I do happen to die, it will be a benefit to your eyes. So my plan is to wait and see what happens during the N1 action phase and then contribute D2 if i'm still there. Opinion on my dissection of the clarity case? Do you think that case came from a townie? | ||
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But aren't you doing exactly what you say is wrong with my case? just picking it apart, finding "mistakes" I'm fact checking you, and asking you about things I disagree with. Furthermore, I don't say at the end "Clarity is scum and should be lynched". That is something that seems hasty, and doesn't show the intent of gaining information from you, it shows intent of hammering you. Anyway, I want to keep this as objective as possible, so let's just keep talking. On July 30 2013 05:21 Clarity_nl wrote: Why not bring it up day 1? Like, way earlier. Also, yes the case comes on stronger than my read was at the time, but that's the point, I pressure FT and see how he reacts, and he WAS my strongest read at the time so I pushed him Cause I don't always play to the best of my ability, and I had other clues to go after D1. I found FT scummy myself, and you rather townie at first impression. Reading thoroughly requires a lot of time, I'm already spending more than I'd want to on reading and writing so I don't have the perfect overview of the game. Anyway, I'm still going through your filter, if I find something I'll tell you. Ezpz. | ||
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On July 30 2013 05:26 exarezee wrote: I remember clarity's case clearly from reading it on day 1. He along with hzflank, I liked a lot of their posts. I even directly told clairty i liked all his posts except one. I think he approached the case from a town perspective. I think you could make your case as a townie or scum. You do the same thing you fault him for. You dissect the case and point out mistakes. He does not really have any logical mistakes. And you do not show insight as to why he would do something as a town and not as scum. Town wants to solve the game and gain information. Scum wants to act like townie and cause mislynches. If someone posts a bunch of summarized reasons without a real conclusive reasoning behind it, drops a vote, and fucks off afterwards cause they feel they just contributed then it's probably scum. | ||
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Proceeding. | ||
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On July 28 2013 23:43 Clarity_nl wrote: I kinda want to lynch Koshi now. I can't explain him not giving a read with reasons as town, but I can't explain it if he's scum either. Doesn't make sense as either alignment = scum. What's this random mention of vigi? If you were vigi (which is town only) why would you shoot someone trying to lynch you, or why would the person trying to lynch you be afraid of that. I'm confused. On July 29 2013 03:01 Clarity_nl wrote: Although I disagree with most of what he's said since he came back, he seems to be trying to figure the game out. Also OMG FOUND A SCUMSLIP classic town, hard to fake. At the very least don't lynch him today. I'm gonna be gone for a couple of hours but will be back with plenty of time to spare. I suggest people look into Oats, Stutters and Malongo. Right now I think I'm willing to lynch Malongo (waiting on him to show up first) or Stutters. | ||
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Reasons for it after the night, I found something else in your filter that's pretty damning. | ||
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I used to be such a pain in the ass as town. | ||
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On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote: Sparrow pfff another smurf. So far in the inactive players I see 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 9. Stutters695 In the hyper-activity side I see: 1. Oatsmaster 4. IMCaptainJackSparrow 10. hzflank 14. exarezee Everyone else is meh-activity wise. So far my best pick is hzflank I really didnt like this post from hzflank: The think about starting the day lynching a lurker is to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank Id be happy to lynch CJS for no reason too ( I just hate attention-smurfs ). | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:27 Clarity_nl wrote: I dunno Vivax, if only I mentioned that in my case on him  SHUT UP SCUM. STOP PROFANATING THIS THREAD WITH YOUR NEFARIOUS PRESENCE. | ||
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How could I be so blind. What the fuck is this. On July 29 2013 08:48 FirmTofu wrote: 7. Malongo On July 29 2013 08:50 FirmTofu wrote: If paper flips green, I'm not sure what to think. I'm pretty sure that you and Malongo are town though. malongo - scum for buddying. hz wagon is just a way to push off votes from paper to someone else. | ||
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I fell for the usual scumslip bias. Can you explain something to me nontheless? On July 30 2013 06:25 FirmTofu wrote: I'm not sure if I missed something. Can someone explain to me how and why rayn has a town read on Koshi and Vivax now? What about the Koshi part did you find worthy of explanation since Rayn seems to have reached the same conclusion as you? On July 30 2013 06:39 hzflank wrote: Hmm, depends if I knew if there was actually a doc on you. I would prefer a Vig to save his shot until day 2 because I have an awesome conspiracy theory. So if you will 100% survive the night I would ask you to save the shot  If you had to fire now then I would not be against a shot on Stutters as he has a reasonable chance of being scum. I think that JAT has a higher chance of flipping scum, but Stutters is up there. If Stutters flipped red then I would want to lynch JAT next anyway though, so I would say just shoot JAT instead. I'm not vig, being honest. I wanted to claim I'd shoot Vayne so the mofo would get scared and start posting, but I assumed it was night vig. Can you explain the bolded to me though? Do you auto-assume that stutters would flip red if shot? | ||
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Scumslip city tonight. Shoot JAT instead cause stutters would flip red and then I'd want to lynch JAT anyway. Are you high HZ? | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:54 FirmTofu wrote: Sure, rayn had a scum read on Koshi pre-flip when he was "99% sure Paper was town". Therefore, his read on Koshi should not have changed based on the flip, right? I didn't see any post in particular that warranted such a drastic shift from rayn so I'm asking if anyone can procure the post that changed his mind. That's a good question. Upon rereading this night's posts of Rayn, I don't see what happened to his Koshi scumread | ||
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Especially when me and the town push you off the ship. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:05 Clarity_nl wrote: Give it your best shot baby. Or you know, don't, cause I'm town. Yea sure. I'm sure town feels like shouting how townie they are during the phase where scum picks their targets. You can't fool me broski. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:07 Stutters695 wrote: Vivax my case wasn't based around the scumslip. What do you think of what I said? Very perceptive from you. Waiting for Tofu to explain where his scumreads went within two hours. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:16 hzflank wrote: I think that Stutters would probably flip red, but if I approach it in that order then I am setting myself up for a big fail. Attempting to name the entire scum team when we have no scum flips is foolish, but if I did so then Stutters would be in there. I would prefer to go one step at a time. Do you disagree with what he just brought up about FirmTofu? He brings up something quite good. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:25 hzflank wrote: I noticed what he brought up at the time that Tofu posted it. I was really tired/unwell at the time so I may have read it wrong, but I had a different take on it to Stutters. Tofu named a 4 man scum team based on Paper being scum and then implied that he would completely re-evaluate it based on Paper's flip. That is not scummy for the reason that Stutters is saying it is scummy. If I want to call it scummy then it would be because the 4 names Tofu put together made no sense as a group, but realistically when anyone names a 4 man scum team on day 1 it is going to be horrible. In fact I do not agree with Tofu's reads in general this game, but they are at least believable so I do not think that makes him scum. More specifically, do you think that the point mentioned could have come from a scum stutters? | ||
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I'll be honest. I don't really understand Stutter's case on me. If someone could clarify what exactly he's getting at, that would be great. Explain what happened between those read posts of yours. + Show Spoiler + On July 29 2013 08:48 FirmTofu wrote: My reads. I don't have much time, but I'll expand on these in my next post if there's still time. Player List: 1. Oatsmaster 2. Vivax 3. Clarity_nl 4. MCaptainJackSparrow 5. raynpelikoneet 6. Paperscraps 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 10. hzflank 11. Koshi 13. justanothertownie 14. exarezee Yes, I think exarezee is town now based on the way he's been behaving regarding the lynch. I'm null on those without colors. On July 29 2013 11:28 FirmTofu wrote: I don't know what do think of the whole rayn/vivax/koshi trifecta. Koshi is probably town though. Scum is probably some combination of JAT/hzflank/exarezee and possibly rayn. I highly doubt vivax and rayn are on the same team, but I can't decide which one is scum. Vivax's unvote looks like scum trying to cause a no lynch, but I highly doubt scum would want to draw so much attention to themselves unless they had a back-up plan. Vivax's filter also feels really town to me aside from the part where he votes me for finding him suspicious. Null rayne's play is consistent with his town meta. He's been all over the place, much like me, and switches his reads on the fly. I don't like his reads and I think they are scummy, but his behavior doesn't seem like something scum would pull. Null-slightly scum hzflank has been pressured by koshi and malongo quite a bit and has chosen to sit in the sidelines for the majority of this game. I'm going to filter dive him and see if there's something I missed. I'm currently looking at him very closely. Leaning scum exarezee had a very townie approach to the lynch and stayed with his reads the entire game. Although much of his early game posting was scummy, I think he has redeemed himself with his behavior somewhat. However, with the flip, I'm going to have to look at him in detail. I'm not willing to clear him yet because the flip does incriminate him a little bit. Null-slightly scum JAT had a very suspicious delurk timing today. I can't help but feel he's laughing his ass off while vote out a townie, only to pop into the thread as soon as night begins to make himself look townie. Scum | ||
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Why did Malong, stutters and Koshi end up being town just cause PS flipped town? | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:51 FirmTofu wrote: Malongo and Koshi are very closely linked. They've been buddying each other the whole game. On reads and just about everything else. They were trying to prevent the PS lynch by voting hzflank, someone they thought was a stronger scumread. This makes sense if they were both town, but not if they are both scum. Thus, a PS town flip exonerates them. Stutters is still scum to me. His actions during the flip are unforgivable and his case against me isn't even really a case at all. Did you simply forget to add him among your scumreads post-flip? Scum is probably some combination of JAT/hzflank/exarezee and possibly rayn. I highly doubt vivax and rayn are on the same team, but I can't decide which one is scum. | ||
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If I die, still use your own head. I hate when people use my reads without some own reasoninhg post-death. | ||
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I can't stand when people play like that. | ||
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