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Titanic Mini Mafia! - Page 6

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exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 18:28 GMT
#697
You two have drawn too much attention to yourselves early in Day 1. It is pretty bold when there is no N0. It requires very careful coordination to both soft attack/accuse the same person who if he turns up town will put some pressure back on you eventually.

It's just not likely for scum to do this kind of thing. Let's suppose a scum starts the initial vote on someone. It's very rare that another scum will immediately jump onto that ship.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 18:30 GMT
#699
On July 29 2013 03:25 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2013 03:17 exarezee wrote:
Let's assume you are scum and have labeled someone else scum and do a filter of their posts. You find a post by theirs that you think is really bad and will lend support to your cause. Would you not be excited?


There's the other side of the medal, you already know the other guy is town and will elaborate that post according to that mindset, not believe he's scumslipping.

But yeah, I see where you're coming from. I use these little things in getting townreads, but ultimately one has to judge the overall picture.

You want to lynch FT quite badly I take?


I think he is above average chance to be scum. I also think tofu's role is a lot clearer once he flips. If by quite badly you mean he's my #1 lynch target, then yea. If I had to throw out a number I'd say he's 60% chance of scum imo.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:01 GMT
#710
On July 29 2013 01:38 Koshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2013 01:03 exarezee wrote:
meh, don't really see why smurfs are allowed in games. gives the smurf too much of an advantage.

Are you and JAT friends?


nope. don't know anybody in this thread.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:06 GMT
#712
On July 29 2013 03:50 hzflank wrote:
I don't know what to do with Koshi at this point. I cannot push him because he is convinced that I am scum and is just avoiding my questions. Unless someone else can get something good out of Koshi then I am going to have to assume that he is scum.

Can someone else try, please?


Nothing you can do with Koshi. Wait till Day 2. While I don't particularly like that he has no reads, it is Day 1 after all. I don't think that's he's convinced you are town. Diagree with his logic to vote a lurker, but he voted you because you are to him the scummiest of the active players.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:21 GMT
#716
I'm starting to think tofu is more and more town. which also means paper is more and more scum.

Yes, tofu's arguments are terrible. But he says some things which make it harder for me to believe a scum is falsifying his beliefs in order to get a mislynch. "When he says why aren't you voting me because I'm voting you." Does scum really say this kind of stuff.

To the people that think papers is town: He has a very short 1 page filter. Can you quote the posts that you think villager papers makes?
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:29 GMT
#721
On July 28 2013 15:48 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 15:39 Paperscraps wrote:
On July 28 2013 15:30 FirmTofu wrote:
Hey guys, I was busy with my other game, but I'm back now for a bit. I'll answer any questions if you have them. I've going to sleep soon though.


Hey, do you still think exarezee is a good lynch for today? I am leaning town on him right now. If anything I think there are better lynches, such as Vivax or JAT. Also I think my initial read on hzflank was hasty, after re reading his filter I find him being a possible lynch choice as well.

exarezee is a great lynch for today and I don't think we'll get a better one. Even if you aren't convinced by my case, you can always read his responses and see if they look town to you.

If I thought his responses were adequate, I would have backed off immediately. The problem is that his defense is pretty meager. First of all, he didn't answer half of my case. He picked and chose the points he felt he could defend strongly. Secondly, almost his entire defensive is in a dismissive tone where he just goes to each point and says, "That isn't true because I'm town." If he was town he'd be addressing my points directly.

Also, I find it odd that he isn't voting me after I posted such a lengthy case against him. Remember, he found me scummy before the case, so why doesn't he find me more scummy after it? After all, from his point of view, I'm tunneling a townie. If I were town in his position, I think I would fight back with accusations, not just defensive posts.


I'm really having trouble wrapping my head around what is bolded because it's so bad. It just looks silly from a scum point of view to attack someone for being scum because they aren't accusing you back of being scum. But it doesn't make sense logically from a town point of view either. I don't even know how to approach this logically. I guess it's probably role independent and pretend I didn't read it.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:30 GMT
#722
On July 29 2013 04:24 FirmTofu wrote:
Rayn always accuses me Day 1. This is becoming a thing now. I've been town every game and rayn has been wrong every time.

Exarezee is scum. I'm not sure what else I can say to convince you guys. Everything he has done this game is scummy. His defense is scummy. His attack on me is scummy. His attempt to set up 2 wagons is scummy. My vote stays on exarezee.


Not sure when I attacked you, but please show me.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:37 GMT
#728
Basically, I'm falling back to the logic that Tofu's posts are so bad that he can't be scum. There is little logical thought that goes through his posts. He seems to just post whitewater's on his head at the current moment and then hopes to go back through the thread and back it up. And if he can't find it, so be it.

Paper's posts are bad, but he tries to look better with them.

I won't be voting tofu today unless it's between tofu and an inactive. Still think the best money is on paperscraps though.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 19:41 GMT
#732
On July 29 2013 04:36 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote:
I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1.

I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here.

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 23:53 exarezee wrote:
On July 27 2013 23:48 hzflank wrote:
On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote:
I forgot to address your other point hzflank.

I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him.

Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum.


Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed.

If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time.


You're exactly right. Scum would ideally want two town wagons Day 1. That's why we wagon paper and tofu......you really think they are town/town with their interactions with me day 1?

Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 00:12 exarezee wrote:
Let's look at their summarized sequence of interactions with me and assume they are both town. If you can explain to me their logic in this bizarre sequence, i will acquiesce.

Tofu attacks me about the lurker talk.
I give a scum lean on papers.
Tofu votes me because I did not provide a reason for my scum lean on papers.
Papers comes back to thread and drops a vote on me. No reason is given.
I provide my reason on papers.
Tofu unvotes me and casts suspicion on papers now.
Papers unvotes me.
Papers plays off his posts as jokes.

Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 00:26 exarezee wrote:
So the next question to me is: Well exarezee: What did they do that don't make sense to you?

I don't understand why tofu was debating lurkers with me.
I don't understand why tofu put a placeholder vote on me.
I don't understand why papers dropped in and put a vote on me.
I don't understand why tofu unvoted me and soft accused papers when i soft accused papers earlier.
I don't understand why papers unvoted me.

What I find really odd is that you stopped attacking me after I made my case on you. Am I correct in assuming that my case on you made me more town to you?


Your case on me was terrible. But yes, it's making you look more town to me because it was so bad. I've never attacked you directly. I've thrown some soft accusations along the lines of "I don't understand what town tofu is doing" but i've never directly accused you being scum. I think one of you/paper is a scum. I'm more inclined to think it is paper at the present.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 20:02 GMT
#739
On July 29 2013 04:59 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 29 2013 04:40 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 29 2013 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 29 2013 04:28 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 29 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote:
On July 29 2013 04:24 FirmTofu wrote:
Rayn always accuses me Day 1. This is becoming a thing now. I've been town every game and rayn has been wrong every time.

Exarezee is scum. I'm not sure what else I can say to convince you guys. Everything he has done this game is scummy. His defense is scummy. His attack on me is scummy. His attempt to set up 2 wagons is scummy. My vote stays on exarezee.

Reread it, he's so obviously town I find it hard to believe you can't see it.

Explain to me how he's town.

I already did that. Do you want to lynch Koshi or not? And why?

If Koshi and Paperscraps were the two wagons today, I would definitely lynch Koshi. My biggest scum read is pushing Paperscraps, so I'm hesitant to think Paper is scum. Koshi has done absolutely nothing to convince me he's town.

Why does it matter that you biggest scumread is pushing paper? What if you are wrong? Are you ignoring the possibility that Paper is mafia because of pre-flip association? That to me sounds like an excuse to avoid voting for / looking into someone.

Not ignoring it, I'm just saying it's less likely. Of course, I could be wrong. In my opinion, the chances of that are very slim. If exarezee is mafia, Paper is unlikely to be mafia. That's a fact. Therefore, if I believe exarezee is mafia, then why in the fuck would I vote for Paper?


You could look into paper's posts and form a thought on whether he is town or mafia rather than basing it solely on what you think my alignment is.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:25 GMT
#872
On July 29 2013 07:23 Malongo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2013 07:13 Clarity_nl wrote:
On July 29 2013 07:11 Koshi wrote:
On July 29 2013 07:11 Clarity_nl wrote:
On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote:
On July 29 2013 06:58 hzflank wrote:
On July 29 2013 06:55 Koshi wrote:
Why are we ignoring Malongo?


Do you want me to fully answer him now? His problem with me stems from philosophical differences regarding lynching lurkers. After that he clutches at straws. He seems to genuinely think that I am scum, though. I never responded to him earlier because until this page he talked about me and not too me, and since I have spent a lot of time replying to people doing that this game there was no town benefit to messing up the thread discussing philosophical differences.

Do you want me to fully answer every point that you and Malongo just made?

The thing is your case on Paper was conveniently tunneled and wagoned early and nipticked and I found you lying 2 times.
A) When you said the guy was not answering you directly. hint: he did
B) When you said *how pleople find Paper townie posting. hint: null =/= townie

That and the fact that now we are ending the day with 0 pressure on active lurkers as you wanted with your initial posts.

##Vote hzflank


No, fuck this, consolidate on paper or someone that we might reach a majority on, we need a lynch or we're gonna have a useless day 2.
You applied no pressure to lurkers yourself either, hypocrit.

THAT'S NOT THE POINT MALONGO MAKES


No his point is that pressure on lurkers is important and hz made it so it didn't happen, which is bullshit. Just because hz put no pressure on lurkers doesnt mean he created an atmosphere in which it wasnt possible.

Why the fuck are you and Malongo suddenly jerking off in the corner.
FUCKING CONSOLIDATE

I am pointing out directly at the post where hz didnt want to pressure lurkers early because *it was best for the town to consolidate 2/3 wagons early* wich never happened because there was only one wagon on Paper. If he wanted more wagons then why did hz kept focusing on convincing everyone that Paper is mafia. Clarity you are actively ignoring that he lied.


I'm pretty sure 2 votes on papers isn't close to a wagon
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:29 GMT
#875
On July 28 2013 18:31 Paperscraps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 18:28 hzflank wrote:
Also, you did not answer any of my other questions.

On July 28 2013 18:03 hzflank wrote:
Exactly which Oats reads and posts were great? What do you perceive Oats' 'comprehension of what is going on' to be?


I don't really plan on answering it either. I shouldn't have to go through another person's whole filter and outline what I think are good reads or insight. You can choose to agree or disagree. That is all that really matters.


I'm sorry, but I just can't let this papers post slide. Useless or scum.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:33 GMT
#878
SMH. JAT and hzflank are getting flak partially at least to the fact that they suspect papers? Can you guys who think papers is town show me some positive things he has done?

I'm having a hard time believing that more people don't find paper's posts atrocious.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:37 GMT
#880
On July 29 2013 07:34 hzflank wrote:
I do not want to take all the attention away from JAT because he does look like scum and I am aware than I am defending him by proxy. The problem that I have is that I don't know for sure which of you are town, so if I just easily change my vote to JAT then I may just be easily letting scum control my vote.

We really need JAT and Paper to start posting.


JAT went to a concert and might not be back. No idea on papers.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:42 GMT
#882
@Koshi could you explain your case against JAT? Why are his 1st 2 posts bad?
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:43 GMT
#883
Oh koshi is gone. didn't see that oh well. I don't even see the case aginst JAT reading through his filter. Can someone summarise the case against him? I tend to agree with almost all of JAT's posts.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:47 GMT
#885
@Paper

1 hour 13 minutes till deadline
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:48 GMT
#887
On July 29 2013 07:46 Paperscraps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2013 03:52 hzflank wrote:
Paper, can you tell us what you think of this, please.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720&currentpage=30#587


It is a decent post, slightly biased through the lens of hzflank who already at that point scum reads me. You are seeing what you want to see in my posts. I could defend every point you made against me, but right now I don't think that would be beneficial since I am beginning to town read you again. We could go into the psychology of mafia and how people want to think their first choice is right, but really you should realize with all the flak I am getting from everyone right now, the chances of me flipping scum is very low. I am all alone here, this is day 1.

Tofu made a pretty big shift in the recent pages, going from totally being against my lynch to voting me. I am not saying I don't have reasons to be voted with what everyone is throwing at me, but it doesn't seem like a natural shift at all. Where did his backbone go? Does he not scum read exarezee anymore? Is exarezee bussing me now? A closer look at Tofu right now would be great.

@anyone
How much time until the deadline?


I'm BUSSING YOU? Say WHAT?
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:51 GMT
#893
@Papers

I think you should defend yourself at this point from hzflank's posts. You're going to get lynched if you don't defend yourself. Finding another suspect is useless at this point. If you know you're town, the best pro-town thing you could do right now is to save yourself.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 28 2013 22:55 GMT
#897
On July 29 2013 07:51 Paperscraps wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2013 07:48 exarezee wrote:
On July 29 2013 07:46 Paperscraps wrote:
On July 29 2013 03:52 hzflank wrote:
Paper, can you tell us what you think of this, please.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720&currentpage=30#587


It is a decent post, slightly biased through the lens of hzflank who already at that point scum reads me. You are seeing what you want to see in my posts. I could defend every point you made against me, but right now I don't think that would be beneficial since I am beginning to town read you again. We could go into the psychology of mafia and how people want to think their first choice is right, but really you should realize with all the flak I am getting from everyone right now, the chances of me flipping scum is very low. I am all alone here, this is day 1.

Tofu made a pretty big shift in the recent pages, going from totally being against my lynch to voting me. I am not saying I don't have reasons to be voted with what everyone is throwing at me, but it doesn't seem like a natural shift at all. Where did his backbone go? Does he not scum read exarezee anymore? Is exarezee bussing me now? A closer look at Tofu right now would be great.

@anyone
How much time until the deadline?


I'm BUSSING YOU? Say WHAT?


I am putting myself in Tofu's shoes. What is he thinking to have voted me? His shift from being against my lynch to voting me was too sudden. It is scummy. He has been all about lynching you exarezee, then is now voting his scum's scum read. That doesn't strike you as odd play?


I'm still confused as to who is bussing who. Bussing = mafia throwing another mafia under the bus right? Who do you think is doing this.
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