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Clarity, why you so town?
Okay so apart from the RB claim I think I could make a good and sophisticated case on why Clarity is scum. This would of culminated with the case that Clarity recently made against Vayne. I thought that it was a bad case that focussed only on day 1 when it should of included some stuff from night 1 also. So then I wondered why scum-Clarity would be making a case against Vayne at this point...
The only good reason for scum to try to force a case against Vayne is because scum do not want there to be three town in the game who some people (such as Rayn) think are confirmed due to the claims at the start of day 2. Having 3 somewhat confirmed town would be a problem for scum because town could start to use process of elimination, especially if one of those confirmed is a Vet who cannot easily be night killed.
The thing is, since Clarity is one of those confirmed town due to claims, if Clarity was scum then it would not be a problem because there would not actually be three confirmed town. Therefore, there is no good reason for scum-Clarity to make that case against Vayne.
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On August 01 2013 02:06 Clarity_nl wrote:
postgame I'd be interested in why I'm scum if you ignored the roleblock claim
You're not anymore. You were scum without the RB until about 30 minutes ago. Now you are super solidly town either way.
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On August 01 2013 02:15 VayneAuthority wrote:
rayn is a good lynch for later, not now though. get rid of all people not contributing to the town wincon. First up, malongo.
Remember that we only have 1 mislynch left.
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On August 01 2013 02:29 Clarity_nl wrote:
how can one person make the game so fucking unenjoyable
It has not just been one person, though 
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On August 01 2013 02:13 FirmTofu wrote:
@Everyone here right now
What do you guys think of a rayn lynch?
Something for you to think about. I touched on this in my recent post about Clarity. This is something everyone should of already thought of, but it would have been bad for me to post about this early day 2 as I wanted to wait and see reactions.
Rayn thinks that Vayne, Clarity and I are absolutely confirmed town. If the 4 of us are in fact town then scum would know this. Scum cannot leave that situation as it is. Rayn and I also have Stutters as town, which if true makes the situation even worse for scum.
Therefore, if Rayn is town he should have been looking unfavourably on people who were trying to make the supposedly confirmed town people distrust each other. This does not mean that the 5 people mentioned here are in fact all town. It means that Rayn is so sure that the other 4 are town that he cannot help but think that people who are messing with that are scummy (this might not even be conscious thought).
So if you want to get a better read on Rayn then I suggest you ask yourself: is he playing as town-Rayn should considering that he has 4 solid town reads?
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On August 01 2013 02:48 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:33 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 02:13 FirmTofu wrote:
@Everyone here right now
What do you guys think of a rayn lynch? Something for you to think about. I touched on this in my recent post about Clarity. This is something everyone should of already thought of, but it would have been bad for me to post about this early day 2 as I wanted to wait and see reactions. Rayn thinks that Vayne, Clarity and I are absolutely confirmed town. If the 4 of us are in fact town then scum would know this. Scum cannot leave that situation as it is. Rayn and I also have Stutters as town, which if true makes the situation even worse for scum. Therefore, if Rayn is town he should have been looking unfavourably on people who were trying to make the supposedly confirmed town people distrust each other. This does not mean that the 5 people mentioned here are in fact all town. It means that Rayn is so sure that the other 4 are town that he cannot help but think that people who are messing with that are scummy (this might not even be conscious thought). So if you want to get a better read on Rayn then I suggest you ask yourself: is he playing as town-Rayn should considering that he has 4 solid town reads? Since when does he think you guys are confirmed town? He's been flip-flopping on his reads every three pages. Just a few pages ago he was questioning Clarity. Before Day started, he had you as scum(my).We need to start holding him accountable for these drastic and completely unjustifiable read changes. Town rayn does not play this way. He is more methodical and you can clearly see his train of thought. Additionaly, you are considering hypotheticals that aren't necessarily particularly likely. What makes you think all of those people are town in the first place? It's a pretty huge leap of faith to take considering they haven't really been in the forefront of discussion until just recently.
Rayn has had Clarity solid town since the post where Clarity explained why the RB made him town. Rayn has had me town since the Vet claim and Vayne town since the cop claim. Vayne has has Stutters town since early day 2.
It does not matter whether these town reads are correct or not. The important thing is whether Rayn actually thinks that they are correct. You are the one that really wants to lynch him so you should be considering his town reads when you read his day 2 play.
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On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote:
Assumption. I plan for the worst, and a successful janitor kill practically ends us if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO.
How do you know that Mal and Oats are town? :p
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On August 01 2013 02:56 Koshi wrote:
hz, I don't understand what you are saying btw. I would comment on it but I don't get it.
Rayn has 4 solid townreads. On top of that he says that XRZ and JAT look town, so together with him that is 7 townies. Now you ask me if he plays like he knows all this?
He isn't yelling he found all scum like I would do -_-
There is a difference between thinking someone is more town than scum (XRZ and JAT) and thinking that someone is almost confirmed town.
Imagine that you are town-Rayn and that you think that the 4 players are mentioned are town. Read Rayn's filter. Is Rayn playing as you would expect him to play based on that?
If you think that the answer is yes then you do not want to lynch Rayn today.
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On August 01 2013 03:12 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:55 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote:
Assumption. I plan for the worst, and a successful janitor kill practically ends us if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. How do you know that Mal and Oats are town? :p Oats feels town, I don't want to lynch him. Unfortunately this is how he plays town. If Mal is somehow town also we're royally fucked.
I was joking when I asked that as I did not really think it could be a scum-slip. Now I am seriously concerned though.
On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote:
if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO.
On August 01 2013 03:12 Stutters695 wrote:
If Mal is somehow town
The first time you implied: I feel like Mal is town
The second time you implied: I feel like Mal is scum
Any third parties have thoughts on this?
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Would people please stop trying to push whatever their personal agenda is and take 30 seconds to look at the point I just made against Stutters. I am hesitant to believe in a scum-slip, but how can someone believe that Mal is both town and scum at the same time?
It seems like the point is just being swept under a rug.
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On August 01 2013 03:44 Clarity_nl wrote:@hz I think this post Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote:
Assumption. I plan for the worst, and a successful janitor kill practically ends us if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. In context, rearranged: We are screwed if Mal and Oats are alive in LYLO He's implying scum in both
Absolutely not. His whole point was that Oats and Mal would not be online at deadline time so scum could just do a vote-swap last minute and town (Oats and Mal) would not be able to prevent it because two townies would not be online.
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On August 01 2013 03:43 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 03:19 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 03:12 Stutters695 wrote:On August 01 2013 02:55 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote:
Assumption. I plan for the worst, and a successful janitor kill practically ends us if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. How do you know that Mal and Oats are town? :p Oats feels town, I don't want to lynch him. Unfortunately this is how he plays town. If Mal is somehow town also we're royally fucked. I was joking when I asked that as I did not really think it could be a scum-slip. Now I am seriously concerned though. On August 01 2013 02:48 Stutters695 wrote:
if we have Mal& Oats alive in LYLO. On August 01 2013 03:12 Stutters695 wrote:
If Mal is somehow town
The first time you implied: I feel like Mal is town The second time you implied: I feel like Mal is scum Any third parties have thoughts on this? You're not thinking about it in context. The first quote is still part of my assumption, not my thoughts. Second part is my thoughts, but take those with a grain of salt. I'm holding back on pushing him hardcore because he made some really retarded decisions in the first game I played with him so I'm more hesitant to do the same this game. I don't see the martyring as a scum tell with him because of that. He is a policy lynch given the circumstances who I'd say is probably like a 60/40.
If your thoughts are that Mal is scum, why did your automatically assume a situation where Mal is town?
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So conspiracy theory is either:
Stutters is scum and really messed up and Rayn and Exar just sarted to shit up the thread so that people would move on quickly and ignore it.
Or
Stutters is town and Cora thought he would use my point to throw the scum-role scumslip point at him again to see if he could put pressure on Stutters instead of someone else (Koshi? Not sure who).
For now:
##Unvote
##Vote: Stutters
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On August 01 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:18 hzflank wrote:
So conspiracy theory is either:
Stutters is scum and really messed up and Rayn and Exar just sarted to shit up the thread so that people would move on quickly and ignore it.
Or
Stutters is town and Cora thought he would use my point to throw the scum-role scumslip point at him again to see if he could put pressure on Stutters instead of someone else (Koshi? Not sure who).
For now:
##Unvote
##Vote: Stutters Or you could, you know, vote Tofu with Rayn/I/anyone who cares about winning and we can hit scum today instead of dicking around and making no progress towards winning.
Why Tofu and not Cora? If you are town then it should be extremely fishy that Cora would push you so hard over knowing scum roles. That is such a scummy thing to push someone for, and it is not like Cora has been particularly town for the last 48 hours.
Also, Rayn thinks Cora is scum, right? I am sure he would not argue too much with my theory that Cora is only doing this because Cora is scum, since Rayn has a town read on you.
This whole situation is completely and utterly fucking win/win for me at the moment.
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Clarity, you here? Want to bounce some stuff back and forth? I see two sides forming, one is scum and the other is town. I am just not sure which is which.
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On August 01 2013 04:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:30 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:18 hzflank wrote:
So conspiracy theory is either:
Stutters is scum and really messed up and Rayn and Exar just sarted to shit up the thread so that people would move on quickly and ignore it.
Or
Stutters is town and Cora thought he would use my point to throw the scum-role scumslip point at him again to see if he could put pressure on Stutters instead of someone else (Koshi? Not sure who).
For now:
##Unvote
##Vote: Stutters Or you could, you know, vote Tofu with Rayn/I/anyone who cares about winning and we can hit scum today instead of dicking around and making no progress towards winning. Why Tofu and not Cora? If you are town then it should be extremely fishy that Cora would push you so hard over knowing scum roles. That is such a scummy thing to push someone for, and it is not like Cora has been particularly town for the last 48 hours. Also, Rayn thinks Cora is scum, right? I am sure he would not argue too much with my theory that Cora is only doing this because Cora is scum, since Rayn has a town read on you. This whole situation is completely and utterly fucking win/win for me at the moment. Well seeing as Rayn voted for his town read, I'm not entirely sure if you should trust any of his reads. hz, do I look scummier than anyone who has been considered for lynch today? If the answer is no, why are you discussing things that aren't important to todays lynch? If the answer is yes, I would love to hear your case.
I have never said that I trusted anyone's reads.
I make a cracking point on Stutters, but it was only a single point. A single point does not make a solid case. Then I watched what other people did after I made that point and I saw two sides formed.
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On August 01 2013 04:45 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:36 hzflank wrote:
Clarity, you here? Want to bounce some stuff back and forth? I see two sides forming, one is scum and the other is town. I am just not sure which is which. I'm keeping up with the thread but am doing fun stuffs with peoples on the internet so don't expect me to filterdive deeply or anything anytime soon. I can bounce thoughts though, whatsup?
Scum teams: Rayn/Stutters and probably Exar
Or
Cora/FT and probably Koshi
I wont bother trying to name the fourth member.
Stutters makes the 'scumslip' about a Janitor. I have personally seen such scumslips be real, but also I have seen them be false and used my scum to attack town for making a shitty scumslip.
Cora attacks Stutters for the scumslip. So I build on it with a joke scum-slip attack on Stutters. Stutters makes a response that might actually be a real scumslip. I am no psychiatrist, but I would think that if you think that someone is scum then you do not assume them town when you make a snap (instant) assumption.
That's not enough to know that Stutters is scum, so I need to prod. Exar begins to make shit posts. Rayn completely flips out in the thread. Note the previous interactions between Rayn and Stutters. When I called Stutters out N1 for his filter Rayn said that Stutters plays like this when he is scum. But Rayn never pressed Stutters on it and later got a solid town read on Stutters. Not long after that Rayn had Stutters as the possible fourth man in his most likely scum team. I propose that Rayn's recent flip out in the thread may have been designed to make things messy and stop people from talking about Stutters.
So I remind people of what Stutters posted. It gets a little attention but not much. Then Cora attacks Stutters again for the role scumslip.
Stutters has Cora as scum anyway so that should of set alarm bells off for a town-Cora. Rayn had Stutters as town and Cora as scum so Rayn should have been as happy to lynch Cora as FT after that. Then Stutters tells me that I should just forget it and vote FT.
Also consider that Rayn has Exar as town. I wont name everyones reads in this post as if I try it off the top of my head I will likely make mistakes.
Anyway, based on all of that, do you see the two sides formed? At least partially?
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On August 01 2013 04:42 VayneAuthority wrote:
here's something to think about hz
If rayn is the one leading scum right now ( which I think he is)
He said to have the doctor on vivax, so he thought he was the most dangerous/important player at the time.
Fast forward and vivax died that night. He then gave the fake "why wasn't doc on vivax!!" anger
that along with his questionable play this game leads me to believe he is scum, the subconscious speaks the truest!
Before I start Vayne, lets make it clear that I do not fully trust you as I do Clarity. I have no idea whether you trust me.
If you think that Rayn is scum and directed the NK (if he were scum then he would be the one making those decisions) then the simple answer is that he thought the most likely Doctor to save Vivax was Clarity, so he roleblocked Clarity.
If Rayn is scum then when he directed the doctor the only good reason to do so was in an attempt to figure out who the doc was so that they could roleblock or shoot them.
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On August 01 2013 05:00 FirmTofu wrote:
The problem with that reasoning, hz, is that you have already taken a side yourself. You would be on the hypothetical scumteam with me Cora and koshi if we were to apply this logic without knowing your alignment. Don't you see how that is problematic?
So you problem is that i think the other team is more likely to be scum than your team? Do you think that you are more scummy than Rayn then?
Also, my vote is subject to change.
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On August 01 2013 05:03 VayneAuthority wrote:
if it helps, stutters is a lot more abrasive like this as town. His one scum game his filter reads very passively and he throws a couple cases around and agrees with people a lot.
Idk this game is confusing =/ still trying to figure out why town is so hesitant to lynch some one that isn't going to help us vote for scum or play the game.
See, now that I have attempted to proxy-Vig you by directing the next NK at you, you are now being useful!
This is my third game, I have played 1 before as town. We came back to win from a 4-3 LYLO and I was in the position where I had to make the final decision. We had a player a bit like Malongo in the game and he was town. By the time the LYLO came I managed to get him on side, he sheeped my vote and we won the game. If Malongo is town then do not give up on him yet.
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EPT
