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On July 01 2013 07:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:Yeah, i had not reread what Stutters had said after that, and when i started catching up i was posting when i read people's filters. That's also when i realized what Oats posted about him, this post: Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 14:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
So you are saying as scum stutters wants to throw suspicion on Rayn for something that scum dont know. I dont think this is really all the believable
The rest i said about Stutters is why he is only slightly leaning on town and not more.
Funny. What oats posted was the exact opposite of what you claimed.
You said:
rofl what's this? An accusation? Now if i was mafia how would i know how many millers there are in the game?
and this:
So you are saying as scum stutters wants to throw suspicion on Rayn for something that scum dont know. I dont think this is really all the believable
swayed your opinion? Cause Oats just said the exact opposite of what you said?Without any further clarification?
Then, you got ultimately persuaded by these posts between your posts in question?
You went from scum to I don't know to town, with these posts between the "I don't know" and the "town":
On July 01 2013 02:46 Stutters695 wrote:
This is why I thought he was town.
The miller stuff is eh (a lot more damming now with Vivax's post however). Like it isn't an unreasonable assumption and his reaction to my "scummiest post in the thread" was almost exactly how I'd react. I'd expect scum to be much more concerned with justifying their stance immediately rather than just laugh it off and not elaborate until pressure is on them. I reacted almost identically to an accusation from vivax in roulette that I felt was ridiculous.
In addition to that, he's one of the most active players.
I can pull specifics if you want but that's the rundown.
On July 01 2013 03:47 Stutters695 wrote:
You're misunderstanding. I'm leaning scum on him now, that was explaining why I thought he was town when I woke up this morning and did a quick skim.
Although I do think accepting a miller claim isn't unreasonable. It essentially is just having someone say "hey, don't check me because you'll waste your power (pre-parity announcement) and cause a mislynch."
It doesn't in any way confirm Marv, but ensures he is judged on the basis of his actual play. That he's so sure Marv is town is worrisome but I can see where he is coming from to a certain extent. I also don't like how many people are slipping by saying absolutely nothing. Even if we lynch him we should hear his reads and force these hardcore lurkers to post something.
Explain what you found so townie about these posts please.
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Well what's sure is that your explanation is easier to buy than Rayn's.
At least you checked if it was possible that marv would fakeclaim, and you put out your reasoning for assuming he's town.
That's why we lynch Rayn today and not you. Don't you think it's a sweet idea?
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+ Show Spoiler +No, I'm taking that back. You are also a good lynch.
The reasoning you mention now is not a reasoning you mentioned at the time, where you argued from the point of view that there had to be one miller, and that the miller was marv.
You could easily be lying now.
But it's a matter of belief to judge you for that, now that you offered an explanation that is not possible to be confirmed based on your earlier post.
I still think you fell for the same mistake Rayn fell for.
tl; dr:
Now you say you thought "extra" stuff at the time, but at the time you didn't mention that. Hence I don't know if it's true.
Now you say that you thought marv was town cause he would not have balls to do that as scum, but in the post you claim that he's town cause there can only be one miller.
BUT, marv himself said that he fakeclaimed miller as scum in another game (which you wanted to look up, as if marv would lie about that lol, for what?Does he need to lie to discredit his claim?)
With all of this you mention now, your reasoning boils down to the fact that regardless of the amount of millers, marv would be town cause not ballsy enough to do that.
BUT it's bullshit, cause he said himself he was, and your post used an entirely different reasoning, different from this one:
3. Assume Marv is not playing risky as scum (which I was wrong about, which is why I got abit unsure of my read on marv.)
7. Marv knows that if there are one miller in the game and he claims, he is fucked.
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On July 01 2013 08:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 06:38 Vivax wrote:
JarJar, question for you.
Rayn gave Lazer a townread as reaction to me doing the same.
Why did you call Rayn out but not me? Good point. I just didnt notice anything else scummy from you nor was I really looking. I only noticed it from rayn after I went back into his filter.
Who do you think could be scum outside of s0lstice?
As you may have noticed I'm for Rayn and Lazer scum atm. Their explanations become increasingly dangly, hence I'd like you to take a look at the matter and comment on it.
If you don't think they're worthy of the noose, please give me a rundown on why I should be voting s0lstice instead of them.
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Jesus sorry iGrok, thought it was over.
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##continue
No role Pm has been posted yet, should be fine.
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Stutters works for me, s0lstice. In fact he's very compatible with a Rayn + LM scum theory given their early aggression towards each other and the suspicious backpedaling. It gave me the impression of scum distancing.
The posts you mention I also noticed earlier, especially the part with the "I see where he's coming from". Not only is he giving out a quite half-assed, unclear defense, but matter of fact is that him arguing for marv being town wasn't really related to my reasons for thinking that Rayn is scum, cause that was for being too sure too quickly about marv and with reasons that seem fake in my opinion.
It makes me curious to know why he thinks that marv is town though. So far the only reason that have been used were "He doesn't have the balls to do it as scum early", when I clearly posted evidence that he does.
Marv should have been obviously a null for his actions, but stutters then found him townie as well as another argument for defending Rayn.
Anyhow, this is how Rayn is pushing his scumread, "flip-flopping" and "buddying" are his arguments without further clarification:
On July 01 2013 04:49 raynpelikoneet wrote:
JarJar makes also a good lynch for what he has said so far.
On July 01 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats why don't you look at JarJar if i flip town? The guy is flip-flopping around and buddying you about his read on me and has pretty much.. no actually.. none other thoughts.
Appeals to emotion, thinks about his flip:
On July 01 2013 04:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Oats if you by some miracle get me lynched i will laugh at you so hard post game when marv dies N1 and you just lost, not only your whole D1 in analysis and two townies that are amongst the strongest players here.
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On July 01 2013 10:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I'm kinda done here.
##Unvote:
##Vote: JarJarDrinks
Lynch me if you want to, when i flip lynch JarJar and when he flips red lynch Vivax.
Look closely into WoS and Fuba.
I may post something tomorrow if my schedule is not too tight. I was planning on doing some scumhunting today but Oats/Vivax effectively shut me down, and i don't know how much i can be online tomorrow.
Sad thing is that Oats is town. Stutters is probably town aswell. I think marv is still town. I think Lazer is probably town, as i think Vivax is scum. It could be the other way around though. I think solstice is town. I have no idea about Vayne, but PoE says town. Oh and gumshoe is definitely town.
Goes all badass like "lynch me if you want to", but whines that he has to defend himself and can't scumhunt.
He clearly doesn't think that voting his scumread for those semi-reasons can be considered scumhunting.
At last, he gives out all those townreads, effectively leaving me: Me, fuba, WoS, JJD for possible scum.
But yeah, apparently poor Rayne has to defend himself and doesn't think that arguing for someone being more likely
scum is a form of defense as well.
Hence I'll be expecting him to deliver on this front.
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On July 01 2013 12:13 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 12:00 s0Lstice wrote:
I want to know who is scum outside of me, JarJar, and why. Glad u asked  . pretty sure gumshoe is scum All gumshoe has done is look for miniscule things that he can label piggybacker/flip-flopper/etc... And he's calling people out a bunch because of activity issues just because they leave the thread for a bit. Look @ all of these posts: Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 13:04 gumshoe wrote:
My issue is he takes off after pressure turns on him, he stops contributing in hopes of saving himself, that strikes me as a noob scum messing up and trying to wait out the pressure. Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 04:34 gumshoe wrote:
Thats because the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides. Instead Stutters backed off until the heat blew over, I dont believe for a second that he just happened to leave for half a day right after people started putting pressure on him,this is what I find inherently scummy about his play. The town move would be to stay in chat, confront accusations and attempt to contribute and redirect town discussion, which Rayne has done (albiet somewhat unsuccessfully considering everyone and they're mom wont let the miller thing drop for an hour even). Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 05:02 gumshoe wrote:
I also am not dropping the case on you not because your generaly inactive, but because of a certain period in which you were inactive, a stretch of time wherein we could of used you to clarify things, contribute and clear your name, instead you vanished at a critical moment and that felt to me like you were trying to regroup with scum and wait things out. Which worked, nobodies really mad at you anymore, so of course your here now eager to help. Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 06:13 gumshoe wrote:Lastly, isn't it funny how Jar Jar's been gone all day then jumps in once the heat builds? Hes either actively not contributing or someone gave him a heads up  . I mean, look @ this last post. How are those the only options? How about "He's doing something unrelated to the game on a Sunday Afternoon"? He's trying to cast suspicion based on stuff that are outside the realm of the game. Like what does he mean by someone gave me a heads up once the heat built up? Is he implying that I wasn't following the game thread but I was following the scum thread and someone there told me I need to go post? Also look @ that 2nd post where he says "the pressure put on Stutters wasn't necessarily meant to secure a vote on him, it was there to push Stutters to react and force sides.". But that wasn't really what he said when he was supecting stutters earlier Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 12:37 gumshoe wrote:On June 30 2013 12:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
He instantly buddied marv after his miller claim which doesnt 100% confirm marv as town.
Its was like
'Miller claim please'
'im miller'
'k lets win game together marv'
Does anyone else not see that something is wrong? Pretty much my reasoning a little whole ago XD but actively looking for miller as a bud isn't scummy, its neutral, I would rather see what stutters pops, because he's less of an asset. If he flips red I cant see Ryan being scum, if we blindly lynch Rayne and he's town that'll just suck. Basically I rather risk stutters before Ryane XD. And yes this game is about hunting scum, not doing risk assessment but Rayne looks suspicious because he's in to good a manufactured position and stutters looks suspicious because he's made a mistake. I find the latter usually more damming so I swing more scum on him at the moment and it doesn't hurt that were risking less. It only became about pressuring stutters after the fact because gumshoe was pushing his "Stutters left the thread because he was scum and couldn't handle the pressure" agenda. And lastly, since I know I'm town (I know that no one else can know this but I'm giving my own reasons) and there are 3 people voting me. Odds are that 1 of em is scum since I'd imagine they'd want to spread their vote around. vote: gumshoe
On July 01 2013 08:35 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 08:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 01 2013 06:38 Vivax wrote:
JarJar, question for you.
Rayn gave Lazer a townread as reaction to me doing the same.
Why did you call Rayn out but not me? Good point. I just didnt notice anything else scummy from you nor was I really looking. I only noticed it from rayn after I went back into his filter. Who do you think could be scum outside of s0lstice? As you may have noticed I'm for Rayn and Lazer scum atm. Their explanations become increasingly dangly, hence I'd like you to take a look at the matter and comment on it. If you don't think they're worthy of the noose, please give me a rundown on why I should be voting s0lstice instead of them.
This question is kinda old now but you left it unanswered.
You didn't comment on the Rayn/Lazer/Me matter at all.
New question: What happened to your s0lstice scumread?
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Says "WoS will show if he is town when he starts playing".
I will go into more detail about your post and your reads over time, but for a start I'd like you to tell me how this is supposed to be an argument that makes fuba scum.
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Says "WoS will show if he is town when he starts playing". In his next post he comments on some random people (for what?), and does not comment on WoS/JarJar in any way (hey, you were supposed to be good in reading WoS??).
Fuba is scum in your opinion cause he doesn't talk about those you think should be talked about? In his first post you mentioned all WoS posted was french stuff. He could not possibly have offered a good read at early stage, no?
Then drops his vote on me without adding anything to the case, only that "it would be much easier to fakeclaim miller here" which is certainly not true. scum. Why did you not comment on JarJar/WoS in any way in your big post? You must have a read on both of them, let us hear it.
Dunno man, it looks to me like he explains it pretty well:
rayn: After Vivax's marv post, I expected rayn to be less insistent on him being confirmed town. It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective. Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value, and I'm pretty convinced. He's far too eager to accept the claim as truth, when it should now have little effect on the mind of a townie. My only reluctance to vote for him is his activity level, which I tend to associate with town.
That he thinks you're scum for the same reason I do doesn't make him scum either.
Overall you argue that fuba is scum just cause he doesn't do what you want I think.
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In his first post you mentioned (where he said he waited for WoS to post more), all WoS posted at the time was french stuff
This is less equivocal
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Hey stutters, what happened to your good townplay of Roulette?
Do you think marv is town?
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On July 01 2013 22:19 JarJarDrinks wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 17:03 Vivax wrote:
This question is kinda old now but you left it unanswered.
You didn't comment on the Rayn/Lazer/Me matter at all.
New question: What happened to your s0lstice scumread? Well, I did mention that I'm now leaning town on rayne based on his recent postings. I do happen to disagree w/ almost all of his reads though. Lazer I'm not sure of. I don't think that there'd be more than 1 scum piling on me and I have a strong scumread on gumshoe. I think you're town. I think you've made decent cases that have actual substance. I still have a scumread on solstice. Just not as strong as gumshoe. Solstice hasn't really posted too much since I accused him.
What do you want to convey by saying that s0lstice hasn't posted much?
Is it related to your read of him?
Why not sure of Lazer, what makes you doubt he could be town?
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On July 01 2013 22:29 Stutters695 wrote:
Also vivax, if you think I'm scum for trying to distance myself from him, why would I defend him so much when I saw something Ithought you were misinterpreting? Seems like a weak ass reason to switch from your main read.
The supposed distancing thing was your early strange question, coupled with him calling you scum, with both of you pretty much ignoring each other afterwards.
Speaking of weak ass reasons, can you point me to a post of yours where you actually mention a single reason for thinking fuba and JJ are scum? You said you would dive them at various points, but I never saw you emerging.
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On July 01 2013 22:26 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Comment on the reads JarJar. What's wrong and why.
Vivax, would you, as town not comment anything on present suspects at that time, when you have earlier implied you can read them well? Also would you not try to read people you can read well at the start of the game and why? Also i don't have a problem with Fuba agreeing with your case, because that sort of a mistake can be easily done as town. The thing is that he is trying to tell the things you have already said with his own words (i see that as trying to look genuine, when actually not having anything to add, and afraid of sheeping) and the only thing he adds to the case is plain out wrong.
But he did comment on present suspects, just not the suspects you wanted him to comment on.
Maybe he didn't talk about WoS cause he didn't find him interesting. I don't know, but not talking about someone doesn't necessarily make you scum, simply ask him for an opinion maybe.
Regarding the trying to look genuine, where do you draw the line between him doing that as scum, and sheeping my case along with mentioning the points he agrees with as town?
Would you think it'd have been more genuine if he went all like "Ok I sheep Vivax for no particular reason, I just agree with him".
Do you think he has to add something new if the reasons posted are already good?
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On July 01 2013 22:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Stop with the stupid connection cases before red flips. There is no base in Vivax Stutters read because it's based on me and him being scum which can't possibly be true.
It's stutters bringing that up, not me bro. If you ask me questions about connection arguments don't start whining if I explain what I think of it.
I just see you being scum together, stutters is scummy for the reasons s0lstice mentioned.
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What's the false information?
If you allude to the "comment on people you can read-question", I did answer it by telling you to ask fuba to deliver a read on WoS.
Put yourself into fuba's shoes, you say you can read a dude well. You don't talk about him cause you prefer delivering reads on other people.
How is that related to alignment? Cause maybe he doesn't think WoS is worth commenting on (town)? Cause WoS is his scumbuddy and scum never talks of scumbuddies (scum)?
You talk of connection cases being retarded when this part of your case is CONNECTION BASED, would you believe it? Fuba is scum cause he doesn't comment on someone you think is scum.
Is he inconsistent? Well, so are you:
On July 01 2013 06:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 06:47 Vivax wrote:On July 01 2013 06:41 Stutters695 wrote:
The part about no role name being claimed is null imo. I could easily argue the merits of town withholding that info until a second Miller claims. The damming part is how sure he was Marv was town, but that can easily be explained away by his thinking 5 minutes in is too early for scum to claim. I'm having a hard time justifying it when the rest of his play has been pretty town. Like your case had me pretty convinced earlier but the more I see from him the less I feel comfortable with it. Yeah, 12 minutes of difference between the two games is a pretty big reason. Rayn having completely different opinions on miller claims in two different games with similar setups is totally not scummy. Why can't any of you understand that as the millers have role-names, it's too fucking risky to claim miller as mafia??!?!?!?!?
If there was another miller claim, who is to say marv gets to say his role name last? Me? Certainly not. If someone had cc'd him i would totally have him claim his role name first, because marv has balls to do something like this. Not counting the fact that it's incredibly stupid, and no other miller claims proves even more that i am right in what i have said.
On June 30 2013 19:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first.
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JJ:
OK, because like I said, I like the cases he's made. I agree w/ everything he pointed out about you in regards to the miller/marv stuff. It's the same type of stuff that made me suspicious of you in the first place.
If you agree with me, why are gumshoe and s0lstice your scumreads but not Rayn/lazer/stutters?
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Also, you left questions unanswered (again)
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On July 01 2013 23:16 JarJarDrinks wrote:Someone comment on this exchange: Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 11:17 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will).
I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today. Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how? Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 11:22 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 01 2013 11:17 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:02 JarJarDrinks wrote:
OK. Rayne's kinda convinced me that he's town over the last few pages. I think he's legit pissed @ oats. I'd prefer not lynching rayn (though if I have to vote him to save myself I obviously will).
I laid out my case against Solstice already. He'd be my preferred lynch today. Wow, flip flop much? Also a willingness to vote for someone you think is good to save yourself... is towny how? Is this a serious question? Because I know for a fact that I am town. If I get lynched, the town is definately 100% losing a townie. Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on? Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on? My point is you dont sound like your in it to find scum or help town at this point, your just trying to not piss people off and survive the day. And honestly do you think I can treat the old "I'm town so towns gonna get hurt when I die" with any value whatsoever? Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 11:51 JarJarDrinks wrote:On July 01 2013 11:32 gumshoe wrote:On July 01 2013 11:24 JarJarDrinks wrote:
I mean, I don't even understand how you can ask that? Are you saying that you'd be willing to stick your head in a noose if it would save someone that you have a town read on? My point is you dont sound like your in it to find scum or help town at this point, your just trying to not piss people off and survive the day. No, that wasn't your point. You asked me how it was townish to be willing to vote someone that I had a townread on to save myself. You were not saying or even implying anything about me not pissing people off. You jumped on a statement I made and tried to call it scummy which it wasn't @ all. Which you are straight up admitting by not answering my question. And honestly do you think I can treat the old "I'm town so towns gonna get hurt when I die" with any value whatsoever? And then here you try to twist it around like I'm trying to use it to make myself seem more town when YOU'RE the one who asked the question. How is this not scummy as hell? He jumps on me for saying something. He then basically admits that he'd do the exact same thing in my situation and tries to turn the whole exchange around.
I agree that those reasons you quote aren't sufficient to call you scum, he's basically calling you scum for changing a read and claiming to vote selfishly. But I don't know this dude, how sure are you that it's scum pushing you as opposed to a bad townie?
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EPT
