Newbie Mini Mafia XLIII
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
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On June 22 2013 18:12 Onegu wrote: I think you can play one more since it is 3 or fewer, meaning if this is your 4th game that is still ok. I have sent some PM's out also, hope we can get this started asap. This would be my fourth game. I played 2 newbie games and Les Mafia. Thought it was 3 games max, regardless of type. I'd play if a mod gives an ok. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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/unops /in | ||
Spicydinosaur
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Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 11:04 Chromatically wrote: Why so scummy, Spicy? Please point out and explain exactly what you think is scummy. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 11:13 Chromatically wrote: Well, it's hard to decide whether the "hey" part or the "everyone" part is scummier. Really a toss up. What could you possibly expect me to explain? You're taking this awfully seriously. Why did you take so long to reply if you were in the thread? Not taking it super seriously, just busting you back. I posted in the thread then went back to reddit. Checked the thread again after a few minutes. I'll be around tonight and early tomorrow morning. And hey Xzavier. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 11:25 Chromatically wrote: Hmm. In both other newbie games, you started out with a policy post about lurkers. Any particular reason why you changed for this game? It was looked as spam/scummy in the obs chat so I cut it out. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 11:36 Chromatically wrote: Alright, I see. What do you think of Xzavier so far? Spamming more than I like. | ||
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On June 24 2013 11:43 hzflank wrote: I noticed that too. This is Spicy's first post in his previous game, where he was town: That is quite a lot more content than his first post in this thread: Sheeping off of others opinions already? Also heres the QT chat i was referring too. Though i dont know how to post to a specific QT box Heres the QT: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/YXgCU77iVMsa and its posts: 11, 16, 21. Spicydinosaur http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18810769 Fluffity fluff fluff fluff, I will, Fluffity fluff. vote spicy as not the towniest MOFU in thread. umasi xzav and yvanna are town random guy that thinks hes better than he is and fferyl are probably town but not that much i'd lynch firere and spicy for now not sure about the third spicy should be killed with fire Furthermore you should look back at my other 2 games if you want to see what my openings were. They too were different. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 12:10 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Alright, it appears that my plan has oversights that are unacceptable risks at this juncture. Thank you to the veteran players (or just simply better players) who found them so quickly. Personally, I'm more concerned about Chromatic's point (regarding letting mafia call their shot on blues) than the risk of a mafia-tracker claiming NN, but I will not protest if we continue the scum-hunt without regard for my posted plan. To me, everyone who is posting one-liners looks spammy to me, but I think the 'everyone is scum until they convince me otherwise' mentality isn't the worst thing in the world. Spicy and Xzavier are on my radar for the fluff and nonsense at the beginning. Chromatically and FirmTofu seem the most town as they were very quick to point out what were (in their view) flaws in a plan to move forward that may have compromised the town. An intro post saying hi and then answering questions is now fluff? If you want to talk about fluff then look to your first post. On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Nothing useful. All you say is dont claim or dont listen to you. Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. Just restating whats in the OP. spam The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. Horrible idea for someone to claim at all this early. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. More fluff with nothing of substance. | ||
Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
I dont see how responding to two questions makes me scum now. He asked why so scummy which is a bs question so i responded as such. Then he asked why i didnt post right away... and i said why. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 12:36 FirmTofu wrote: I actually do believe Spicydinosaur is scummy, but not for the reasons that Hurricane Sponge states. In all of his posts, he is extremely defensive. At the slightest mention of someone accusing him of anything, he flares up in his own defense. This could be due to his personality or it could be that he is extremely afraid of getting lynched. If it is indeed the latter, he is likely to be a powerful role, town or mafia. This is my preliminary assessment. (It's funny that this real analysis is in agreement with my fluff analysis at the beginning of the game) I do this in all my games, check out Les Mafiafor a good example. Though i don't see how that is alignment indicative as no one wants to get lynched. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 12:37 Hurricane Sponge wrote: We have differing definitions of spam. For me, multiple posts of one-liners are spam. The first question you responded to didn't necessitate the response it got. For reference: Kind of an over-reaction, no? You seem to be getting really defensive at everyone who mentions your name. Wasn't overreaction if you look at my follow up which i stated i was busting him back. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 12:50 Hurricane Sponge wrote: For Xzavier and Spicy: I was pressed by Chromatically as to who I thought looked scummy based on the extremely early-game posts. I gave my answer and justified them. I acknowledge that you think these are shitty reasons. FirmTofu echoed my thoughts that Spicy seemed to be flying off the handle a bit quickly. (Actually he posted that FIRST as I was crafting mine simultaneously apparently.) Xzavier, I assume you're not going to be defending your early content so vehemently? I may be overly defensive but i don't see how that shows alignment as both town and scum would want to live. As for Xzavier, not a fan of his big post about the roles as it was a lot like Hurricanes. Nothing really useful as it just summed up what the roles were and what they can do. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 24 2013 18:14 Aquanim wrote: The trouble with relying on a Nosy Neighbour counter-claiming later on is that we have no guarantee that there is even a Nosy Neighbour in the game. If there isn't, and scum fake-claims it, they get away scot-free. Sure, we could lynch an uncounterclaimed Nosy Neighbour, but enforcing a claim of it day 1 avoids considerations of "did he only claim it to avoid a lynch?". If there is an actual NN, and scum fake-claims it, then they get counter-claimed and lynched, which is OK. Also, if there is a Nosy Neighbour and they are forced to claim at LYLO, then scum can counter-claim and leave us with a 50-50 chance (which might be a lot better than what they faced before). Since scum would probably only claim NN if it was a choice between a fakeclaim and being lynched, if the NN claim is not available to them they're just as dead (if not more) than if they were counter-claimed anyway. Thus there is no advantage to leaving a NN claim till later in the hopes of counterclaiming a fakeclaim. Even if there is a NN are we guaranteed to have a watcher? Or vice versa? There is also the possibility of the SK (if we have one) claiming to be the NN. I still think the best thing we can do right now is NOT to have the NN claim. A confirmed (or at least believed NN) is just one less person for scum to worry about that night as others have said. Also if someone does claim it... would we actually want a watcher to waste a night confirming it? | ||
Spicydinosaur
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Looking at FirmTofu as possible scum target. His first post is pure spam that does nothing to generate discussion On June 24 2013 11:15 FirmTofu wrote: Scum Hunt Day 1: Analysis: Trying to appear friendly with an innocuous greeting. Seems to project an air of insecurity. Preliminary Conclusion: Scum Analysis: Neutral statement of fact. Preliminary Conclusion: Need more information. Analysis: Exudes power with strong capitalization techniques along with a greeting. Preliminary Conclusion: A leader with a powerful role. Analysis: Trying to establish a connection with a player that he has interacted with prior to this game. A metagaming, manipulative sort of move. Preliminary Conclusion: Scummy Analysis: First baseless accusation. As the old chinese proverb states, "He who smelt it, dealt it." Preliminary Conclusion: Scum Suggested Lynch: Chromatically I'm also not a huge fan of his stance on meta use. He claims that he doesn't want to use meta which would be fine on its own, but here he is using the argument to ignore evidence. On June 24 2013 12:01 FirmTofu wrote: As an aside, I would prefer if the accusations remained within the confines of this game and this game only. That is to say, judging people on the differences between their past games and this one is a rather boring way to play the game. He claims I'm scummy because i am defensive when accused of being scum. On June 24 2013 12:36 FirmTofu wrote: I actually do believe Spicydinosaur is scummy, but not for the reasons that Hurricane Sponge states. In all of his posts, he is extremely defensive. At the slightest mention of someone accusing him of anything, he flares up in his own defense. This could be due to his personality or it could be that he is extremely afraid of getting lynched. If it is indeed the latter, he is likely to be a powerful role, town or mafia. This is my preliminary assessment. (It's funny that this real analysis is in agreement with my fluff analysis at the beginning of the game) He acknowledges that it could just be my personality, yet when I link past games to show exactly that, he ignores it. At this point he just backs off his scum claim. On June 24 2013 12:44 FirmTofu wrote: I won't bother looking at your past games, because I believe you should only be judged on your actions in this game. As I mentioned before, you could very well have a defensive personality, so I am not saying you are definitely scum or anything like that. Next up is the lurker list post which doesnt tell us anything new and just clutters up the thread. We all know who has/hasnt been posting as the filter button is a click away. [QUOTE]On June 24 2013 13:27 FirmTofu wrote: [QUOTE]On June 24 2013 12:30 FirmTofu wrote: Quoted Player List for reference: [QUOTE]On June 18 2013 14:22 geript wrote: The Players
[/QUOTE] Lurkers: fyfy, Aquanium, LoneMeow, StiMaDDict, Alakaslam (Sorry, I know you said you were eating, but for all intents and purposes, you haven't posted at all.) Let's keep a close watch on these guys before we start voting.[/QUOTE] Lastly his vote on fyfy has been bugging me. It is clearly a pressure vote to get him active but why target fyfy over stim? Stim actually posted at the beginning of the day right after the day post, then dissipated. He was there reading the thread but not actively posting. This seems scummier than fyfy at the moment. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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Only 1 post and not much content. Though last newbie game he didnt post that much and got himself lynched for looking like a lurker while actually being town. Would be easy to use that as a cover for inactivity. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 25 2013 00:35 fyfy wrote: How long left do we have before night? Next deadline: 1 day 10 hours You can check the OP as it has a countdown clock | ||
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On June 25 2013 01:39 Chromatically wrote: No one has any opinions on hz? Just got done reading it. I completely agree on your first point as I had a similar feeling. The one thing I've been liking out of him was his conversation with tofu. He really seems to be trying to push tofu and actually getting a good reaction out of him. On June 24 2013 13:52 hzflank wrote: Maybe you prefer the term Poking to Attacking, it makes no difference to me as I am an RTS player by nature and so I attack for information. I read your filter several times, so it is not a case of me being lazy with my reading. I did not say that you can count on my vote on Spicy. I will rephrase what I said to make it less ambiguous: I am wondering if Firm thinks that he can count on my vote on Spicy, and therefore thinks that Spicy is a good lynch target. Got a null read atm. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 25 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote: I've been feeling Tofu as town. His opinion about meta is really wierd, but I think it's town-based. Would scum be willing to stand out and draw so much attention to themselves for no reason by espousing an unpopular opinion? I don't think so. I don't like how conciliatory he is about his read on you ("I am not saying you are definitely scum or anything like that."), that feels like he's trying not to cause waves. In general though, he seems comfortable in-thread and he's freely posting. Also, I think the first sentence shows a clear town urge to find scum. As scum, it would be easy to sheep Sponge's read on you. He feels that it's necessary to clarify his personal reasoning, though, which means that he's honestly thinking about who is scum. The bolded part what bothers me. Trying not to make waves is a perfect way to go unnoticed in a game. Too much activity and everyones looking at you, too little and your a lurker who gets a big spotlight on you. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Alakaslam wrote: Awesome point, work lull so SPICY AND ONEGU YOU ARE SCUMBUDDIES DEFENSE YOURSELFS + Show Spoiler + look at me everyone, LOOK at me and see that I am town! Press me, press me hard because 1. That's how I get better at town and 2. Because I am drawing suspicion as town which doesn't help town. And therefore, in the interests of town, if I am scum I am suiciding! THESE ARE MY TOWNREADS. DO AS THEY DO! Nonetheless, defend yourselves. You've both been attacked (especially you, spicy!). I have made a baseless claim of guilt on you two, nevertheless defend it. Why should I think what I do? Prove yourselves town, then lead it! LETS GO SEE YOU AFTER WORK Pure spam. nothing here to respond to. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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1. You claim my first response was blown out of proportion and in the very next post i did i said i was joking back with him which you said was consistent. I clearly said i was busting him back so i dont see how this is an issue. 2. How is my quoting of hurricane a personal attack. Look at what he wrote. I deconstruct his post paragraph by paragraph and show how its mostly fluff and doesnt tell us anything. There was nothing new except for his theory on NN claiming. This wasnt a response to his posting of me but something i observed in the thread. Furthermore I discredited the theory in another post. So this is another example of you ignoring things i posted. QUOTE]On June 24 2013 20:38 Spicydinosaur wrote: Even if there is a NN are we guaranteed to have a watcher? Or vice versa? There is also the possibility of the SK (if we have one) claiming to be the NN. I still think the best thing we can do right now is NOT to have the NN claim. A confirmed (or at least believed NN) is just one less person for scum to worry about that night as others have said. Also if someone does claim it... would we actually want a watcher to waste a night confirming it? [/QUOTE] 3. I dont see how i defended fyfy as i was more saying that stim's post made him more suspicious. This wasnt a major contention and just an observation. 4. We may agree to disagree on your meta argument but its still valid as you dont want to look at evidence that shows im defensive by nature. 5. As for the quoting of the player list, that wasnt because of the bbcode but because you were saying "hey look these guys arent posting" which everyone already knows. 6. I don't have my vote on you and never did. I don't know where you are getting this from. It seems you are so dead set now to get me lynched that you are making things up or simply imagining them. 7. Chrom did bring up some townie points on you and I dont have my vote on you because I wasn't convinced you were scum, otherwise it wouldn't be on it. You seem to be trying to nitpick an argument while simultaneously attempting to make yourself look like some important role because I thought you were scummy. And you thought I was over defensive...this feels like a retaliation vote that is grabbing straw. Also if you think someone is a blue, keep that to yourself. No good can come from saying so. | ||
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On June 25 2013 06:49 FirmTofu wrote: @Spicy 2) You aren't deconstructing his argument paragraph by paragraph, you are just stating that he is full of shit without giving any explanation as to why. Where is the substance? Please point me to the post where you discredited his theory, because I think you might be making things up here. I failed quoted it in my post i dont see how you missed it. Additionally whats there to discuss when he was simply restating what the roles were and what they did. 3) You defended fyfy while accusing me of not voting for Stim instead of fyfy. There was no reason to say that when both were perfectly good lurker targets that were largely interchangeable. I stated exactly why there was a reason. because stim posted right at the start of d1 then lurked. I felt the lurkers were not equal at the time (before fyfy started posting) so it was a curious choice. 5) Sometimes someone needs to point out the obvious when no one is actually discussing it. If anything, this is a town move, not a scum move. In the games ive played its always seen as a scum move even if done by a townie. 7) Okay sure, but this is still standard procedure for scum. Scum wouldn't want to be the driving force behind a lynch that they know to be town because they would have to deal with the consequences of the flip the following day. If i thought you were scum i would have no hesitation to vote you first. Like i said before i found your play scummyish and this vote felt very retaliatory which isn't a scum move. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 25 2013 07:13 FirmTofu wrote: 2) That quote was referring to Aquanim's suggestion to get the NN to roleclaim, not Hurricanes'. Are you trying to deliberately mislead us? 3) My point is your reason is stupid. What difference does one line of posting make? Seriously? Accusing me of being scum based on one line that someone else wrote? 5) What...? Just...what? WHO CARES HOW IT'S ALWAYS SEEN!?!!? If a townie is known to do something like it, why in the world would you see it as a scum move??? If anything, you should see it as a neutral move because both scum and town are known to do it. 7) You aren't even responding to what I said. The fact that you didn't vote me is indicative of the fact that you are scum! To clarify, I'm not voting you because you accused me and didn't vote me. I'm voting you because of the reasons I have stated throughout this thread that suggest that you are scum. Whether you vote me or not is largely irrelevant, so trying to justify your actions isn't helping you at all. Now you are going with personal insults that you claimed i did on someone else? The quote was talking about the same issue... ie NN. As for fyfy...You claimed there was no difference in the lurkers, i pointed out that there WAS a difference now its a stupid reason? I didnt accuse u of scum off of one line, thats why it was included in a whole post of other reasons. You voted for me when you thought i had voted you. you were wrong then. You cant go back and change your rational for voting me saying its now because i DIDNT vote you and the fact that i didnt vote you is somehow now irrelevent The fact that you didn't vote me is indicative of the fact that you are scum! To clarify, I'm not voting you because you accused me and didn't vote me. I'm voting you because of the reasons I have stated throughout this thread that suggest that you are scum. Whether you vote me or not is largely irrelevant, so trying to justify your actions isn't helping you at all. the bolded is contradictory and makes no sense. The fact that you are not quoting 1/2 of my counterpoints from my original reply means you conceded them and it shows how weak your argument is on a whole. You are constantly changing what your argument is about me just to fit your narrative that you have in your head. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 25 2013 07:46 FirmTofu wrote: 1) I think it's fairly obvious to a third party that you were referring to Aquanim's post when you quoted the quote and that you are trying to draw attention away from your response to Hurricane. 2) For fyfy, I still hold that there is no difference between the lurkers and you claimed that there is a difference. I think your reasons for claiming that there is a difference are stupid and make no sense because only one line separated one from the other. Why do you continue to defend fyfy? It's quite intriguing. 3) NO. I did not vote for you because I thought you voted for me. I voted you because you accused me. I was under the assumption that you had voted for me, but I have already acknowledged that that was a mistake. Remember this post, where you said, "Chrom did bring up some townie points on you and I dont have my vote on you because I wasn't convinced you were scum, otherwise it wouldn't be on it. " Then I said, "Okay sure, but this is still standard procedure for scum. Scum wouldn't want to be the driving force behind a lynch that they know to be town because they would have to deal with the consequences of the flip the following day." When I said that, I meant that it would still make sense for you to be scum when you have accused me but have not voted me because you want me dead, but don't want to be regarded as the cause of my death. Therefore, you being scum is perfectly compatible with you not voting for me. The fact that you have since backed off of your accusations against me is only furthering my suspicions that you are scum because you know that pursuing a lynch against me would lynch a townie and would ultimately end with your demise. In other words, all of your actions are still compatible with you being scum, so my vote remains. 4) What? I quoted everything and responded to everything you said. Now you are just plain lying to discredit me. 1. i stand by my response to hurricanes post, his was full of fluff and lacked content. what i said in reply to aqua applies to hurricane because he was the one who started talking about the whole NN issue. It's pretty clear. 2. you keep insisting that im defending fyfy when all i have ever said is that stim looked scummier. YOU are the one who keeps saying that im defending him. 3. This point has been done to death and you keep changing what you are saying about it. First im scum for voting you then im scum for not voting you then im scum and my vote on you never mattered. 4. In your original post where you voted me you had your case. I countered with my 7 points and then you only responded to a few and acknowledged you were wrong on at least one. The fact that you didnt talk about the others shows that you backed off them. Now you are just plain lying to discredit me. As i said before, for someone who thinks im scum because you think i went personal on someone else, you are throwing insults around a lot. | ||
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On June 25 2013 08:05 FirmTofu wrote: 1. I don't think it's clear at all. You can keep saying that, but it simply isn't true. 2. Of course I'm the one saying you are defending him. Who else would say it? By saying Stim looks scummier, you imply that fyfy doesn't look scummy. That's a way of defending him. 3. You continue to misinterpret my position. You are scum for accusing me on flimsy evidence. You are scum for withdrawing only when I accuse you back. You are scum for not withdrawing when Chromatically posted his views on my alignment. You are scum for plenty of things, but voting me isn't one of them. Your vote on me would have mattered if you had the opportunity to remove it, but it doesn't matter because you never actually voted me. 4. I responded to 6 of the 7 points, because the first one had already been discussed. Then, you responded to about 4 of my points. I responded to all of those, and we exchanged blows from there. I don't think you can rightfully say I am picking and choosing my arguments. 1. going in circles now 2. how does that logic work? If i say that hitler was worse than stalin that doesnt imply that stalin was a good guy. All it says is that hitler is worse. 3. You are all over the place and are very selective were you think i should have voted for you or should have withdrawn. I'm allowed to change my view on anyone at anytime, i've done it before and ill do it again when i get new information. 4. you are pick and you are changing what you are saying. I've said everything i need to defend myself and anyone looking at it will see how weak your argument is. | ||
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Insulting 1/2 the people in the thread is not the best way to stop a lynch on you, in fact its a good way to guarantee it. Then he throws a quick vote on aqua with a weak reason to back it up. The vote felt very reactionary like he was going for the first scummy thing he could find, not very calculated. I know some people dont like meta in newbie games, but here i feel Xzavier was just being a lot more cautious with his scum hunting after what happened last game which didnt go so well. I also feel that a scum xzavier would be more self conscious of his 0 scum hunting up to this point and would have put something down at this point. On a lesser note, I'm very cautious of the first bandwagon (not necessarily of the person who started it) but because with the piling on its easier for scum to hide in it. I'm going to look at those who jumped on xzavier and also look at the case on aqua next. | ||
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On June 25 2013 16:35 FirmTofu wrote: The fact that you are willing to change your vote to Alakazam but not Spicy is rather arbitrary. When facing death, a townie would be willing to change his vote to anyone to stay alive. You have sealed your fate in my eyes with this response and have furthered confirmed my suspicions of Spicy. As it seems very few people agree with my suspicions of Spicy, I will defer to a sub-optimal lynch of you. ##Unvote: SpicyDinosaur ##Vote: Xzavier Your logic here is wrong. The two people who have the most votes are xzavier and aqua. If xzavier wanted to stay alive then he would keep his vote on aqua, otherwise his own chance of being lynched goes up if he takes it off. The fact that he's willing to take his vote OFF of the other major lynch candidate and onto another he thinks is scummy shows that he is scum hunting a little. Though were his vote ultimately ends up is the real indicator. I also dont get how him not voting for me makes him scummier now. No one else in the thread bought your argument against me, yet Xzavier is the only one to receive your wrath for doing so? It looks like you are trying to make arbitrary reasonings to reinforce your vote like you did with me. | ||
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On June 25 2013 23:24 Aquanim wrote: I don't see how insulting half the thread indicates townieness to you at all. If he had in fact come back and shown half the thread they'd made a huge mistake, I'd be with you, but his posts after that didn't have anything mindblowing like that. It feels to me like he was just trying to intimidate people into not voting him, rather than having an actual plan - not a completely impossible reaction from town, but I think it makes more sense as a scum move. What about "going for the first scummy thing he could find" is in any way a reaction which can only be explained by Xzavier being town? In fact, how is this not more likely as a scum reaction? His vote for me was him trying to put something down at that point. Lastly, what about the first bandwagon do you think makes it easier to hide on, as opposed to later wagons? I can't see any difference. What im getting at is that Xzavier's play doesnt feel calculated at all. What i meant by the insult comment was that it wasn't smart from a scum perspective so it gives a townie vibe to me. Xzavier's quick reaction vote can be explained 100 different ways but to me felt like he thought "oh shit im getting votes, let me make a case quick." THAT can look objectively scummy as it does to many others but to me it doesn't. As for the bandwagons, there really is no difference between hiding. If there are two bandwagons going then scum could split. But usually in the games ive played, the first person to get a wagon going typically isnt scum. Like i said before not a huge point as more of a cautious observation. | ||
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##Vote:Hurricane Sponge The case: Hurricane starts off with a big wall of text that was written pregame that mostly didnt tell us anything. It gave a summary of the roles and a whole lot of fluff. Plus he wanted the NN to claim already which was a horrible idea. Some found this useful but it really didnt tell us anything new. On June 24 2013 11:46 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Ugh, let's avoid the 'should we lynch lurkers talk' shall we? I'm gonna go ahead and post the play I had written earlier this week analyzing this game from a pro-town perspective. If any of my analysis is off-base, please jump in and steer me back on track. Pre-written segment starts now: Alright, chums. First let me state that in NO WAY is the following message a call for a mass claim. If you are the Parity Cop (assuming you even exist), DO NOT SAY SO. In fact, if you're our town's parity cop, it's probably better if you appear to ignore what I'm about to say completely. Same goes for Trackers and Watchers. DO NOT CLAIM. But read carefully, because you are a big part of whether we succeed or fail (whether we follow my plan or not). Now everyone, pay attention: Looking over the roles, the extremely juicy pro-town potential jumped right off the page at me, as I hope it did to many of you. Trackers can tell us if a person visits someone. Pretty good, but not nearly as good as the Watcher, who can pick a person and sees all who visit them. Obviously, this means we can try to guess the guy who's going to be mafia-killed, and we have a couple shots at seeing if he either gets visited, or manage to Track the mafia member who happens to be tagged to do the deed. Not great odds on either, but still better than nothing. My plan utilizes each role to their maximum potential. Because we are not guaranteed to have a Tracker, Watcher, or even a Parity Cop, it's important that for the roles we DO get, we use them efficiently. The Watcher needs to guess the target they think will be mafia-killed tonight. This is up to your judgement, but I'll make a recommendation later today. The fun part comes with the Tracker and the Nosy Neighbor (and by extension Parity Cop). The Tracker should secretly track the Nosy Neighbor. AGAIN, MR. OR MRS. TRACKER: DO NOT CLAIM NOW. If we have a Nosy Neighbor, they should claim IMMEDIATELY. Once the Tracker can confirm that the Nosy Neighbor is in fact moving around at night, but not visiting the person who got Mafia-killed, WE CAN ESTABLISH HIM AS TOWN. This is a big deal. The Parity Cop can then tag the confirmed Nosy Neighbor as Town and start measuring up suspects against them. If he gets a 'Different' claim, the other person is Scum. If he gets 'Same', they are town. I can elaborate further, but I feel like you can all piece together whatever holes are out there without me holding your hand even further. This is an extremely pro-town set-up (assuming there aren't a bunch of red herrings in which case, Hi I'm sponge, and I just gave you all the book on me.) and I'd like to move fast before mafia can organize their thoughts in their private little forum. If we move fast, and force independent action, they lose one of their many advantages. Next he is prompted to makes a couple of cases against me and xzavier based off of only a few posts. I already disagreed with his reasons for me but he made a couple good points about xzavier. The problem is that this is his only scum hunting for the entire game. From this point forward all he talks about concerns the NN. He makes no new effort to ask questions about cases or constructs his own. It feels as though he made a quick early contribution with hunting and then hoped to sail the rest of D1 without truly contributing. His remaining posts are mostly just rehashing and talking about the NN issue. His last post (as of this posting) is reposted below. On June 24 2013 17:55 Hurricane Sponge wrote: I'll drop the whole NN thing if people feel like we're getting off-track with it, but it seems like we're in a holding pattern while we wait for inactives to defend themselves. Regarding the NN Claim: This is a part of the game I clearly don't understand the far-reaching implications of. Addressing point #2, specifically: "Mafia fake-claiming NN after being seen visiting somebody. A day one claim, before there's any desperate need for a scum to fake-claim it, fixes (this)." Is the value of preventing a mafia NN claim later in the game more than the benefit of having a real NN around to counter-claim it in the moment, catching the scum in the act? (This assumes the remaining townies have pegged the real NN as more town than the first claimant). Do not get discouraged- I would like to hear your thoughts on this subject, and it's important to emphasize that people make up their own minds on this matter as there is likely at least 1 scum trying to steer public opinion in the 'wrong' direction on this issue. You seem to have already convinced FirmTofu, and this is the kind of matter we can get Town Consensus on now in the early game. Here hurricane senses that he's dragging out the NN talk for too long but then double downs on it by encouraging others to continue the discussion. This feels like scum trying to get others to continue on the conversation without him having to post more. Furthemore in the above quote that hurricane quotes, aqua asks for thoughts on his chrom case, yet he passes over the opportunity to give his opinions out. I feel he is just waiting to see how wagons are rolling before he places his opinion down in the safest place possible. | ||
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On June 25 2013 23:43 Aquanim wrote: I don't see how insulting the thread is bad from a scum perspective. It gives the illusion that you're confident and whatnot (and thus town) without having to do any scumhunting or anything else useful. In fact, it sounds a lot like what I've heard about Ace's style. In any case, he did do it and it hasn't "guaranteed" his lynch by any means, so I can't see how it's a bad scum move. For that matter, if it was going to guarantee his lynch, there's nothing about His case on me, while bad, isn't inherently super-scummy in as of itself. If bad cases were a scumtell this game... My problem with it (and with his play as a whole) is that he never did anything with it. Xzavier isn't pushing on me to improve his read, he isn't trying to convince anyone else to lynch me, he isn't looking at anyone else... he just dropped a lacklustre case and said "I'm done with scumhunting for the day, time to whinge about how everyone's being nasty to me and expecting me to play up to my meta". I dont see how insulting others gives you confidence but that just might be subjective thing that people see differently. Now im going try to respond to everyone's comment about my defense of xzavier here so there aren't 15 reply posts. I acknowledge that not all scum are calculating and that this could be a panicking scum but it just doesnt feel like it in this case. Nothing is certain until the flip. Chrom, i agree he should be scum hunting as that would be the best way to convince others to not vote him. But he hasnt really, so why is that? If he were a truly panicked scum i would think he would listen to everyone and start making cases, not go crazy. It looks like he is thinking about voting Alakazam but he hasnt posted a case. Lone, I see what you are talking about but i disagree. If a scum were to get a lot of votes you would think his reaction would be "oh shit" and not "1/2 of you are retarded". Like what has been said before, scum can insult. Also at this point if he starts scum hunting will that change much? Its what he is expected to do so will that mean he is town or just trying to look town. Opinions probably won't change that much will they? It just feels that Xzavier was trying to play a lot more cautious after last game and over did it early on here with not getting any scum reads out because he didnt feel confident. | ||
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This doesn't change my analysis and actually furthers my argument. You picked the sole lurker as your vote which is a huge cop out giving everyone else's level of activity and looks extremely scummy. | ||
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On June 26 2013 00:25 Chromatically wrote: Spicy It's one thing to be more cautious after a game, it's another to not scumhunt at all. The whole "If Xzav were scum, he would do x" argument is WIFOM. Maybe he would do that as scum. Maybe he's not and he's trying to trick us. Maybe he's not doing it anyway because he doesn't know how to. He might not be making cases because it's hard to scumhunt as scum. He might not be making cases so people think that it's a "genuine townie reaction". He might not be making cases so that you make the exact argument you're making now. There are a number of reasons why he would react the way he has, and it doesn't make him townier at all. That sort of argument is what makes up most of his defense and now your defense of him, which is why I found his defense thoroughly unconvincing. Fair point the on WIFOM. For me it just comes down to the fact that i dont see this as a scum xzavier given his last game play and self reflection afterwards with his bad reads. I just don't buy a scum xzavier not having some type of read or questions about cases out by the time of the vote. | ||
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On June 26 2013 00:35 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Wait, just one quick point. So if I had joined one of the other bandwagons, it looked scummy to you. But making a new case and bringing it forward also looks scummy? What were my options? My whole issue with you is that you scum hunted a little in the beginning with extremely early posts, then just talked about NN for the remainder. You didnt question people about cases, you didnt make any of your own, and now you picked a lurker. If you jumped on a wagon now i would still be suspicious because it doesnt change the underlying reasons i think you are scum. | ||
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I am not wasting my vote, i am voting for someone who i believe is scummy. Would it be a waste if people switched onto you? I believe people should vote for who they think is scummy, its simple. I'm not voting xzavier for reasons stated and im sure as hell not going to vote for the late day bandwagon building switch to stim which looks to be forming as the aqua wagon is falling apart. My vote is parked comfortably were it is. | ||
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On June 26 2013 08:07 hzflank wrote: There is not a wagon on Stim, only me. The other person who I would be willing to switch to is Alakaslam, who Onegu ic currently on and I still do not think Onegu is scum. Onegu moved his vote off of Aqua very early and has shown no indication of moving it back. If Xzavier and Onegu are both scum then Onegu should of kept his vote on Aqua until the wagon gathered more steam. There were still many people who had not voted when Onegu moved his vote. The way the thread was reading makes it seem stim will be getting a few more votes. at least to me. | ||
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On June 26 2013 09:11 Chromatically wrote: Spicy and hz, did you read my case? It didn't convince you at all? And if you put your vote on someone random, and then don't push their lynch at all, you are wasting your vote. I read it and wasnt convinced. I had spent most of my time after the case posted defending my defense of Xzavier and then had work. I did update the case based off of his then vote on stim. No one else has commented on my case and 1/2 the thread thinks im scum for defending xzavier so theres nothing i can do at this point. I'd like your comment on my case. | ||
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On June 26 2013 09:27 Chromatically wrote: Your case on Sponge? I have Sponge (and you) as strong town. I didn't much like Sponge's early game policy stuff either, but his recent posting is really townie. Look at page 2-3 of his filter particularly. He's freely offering opinions, posting a lot, interacting with others in a very townie way. Your case only looks at his early posting, but look at his recent posting, because that's where the towniness is. When I said "my case on Xzav", I meant this one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=417692¤tpage=25#495 Has everyone read this? I'm getting the feeling that it was missed. I dont like the vote for the lurker as it seemed an easy cop out. Then his switch to xzavier doesnt help as i think xzavier isnt scum. He has picked up commenting about cases a lot more, but that's to be expected when accused. There was a huge shift in his play style before and after my vote on him. Perhaps he became more active to push the mislynch? I honestly dont know but looking at his filter it just feels scummy. And your new case didnt really add anything new, just commented on xzaviers posts. At this point xzavier is going to be lynched barring some big last minute vote switches. | ||
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@hurricane: i was planning on posting my thoughts on why the aqua vote was bad but i got caught up with my defense of xzavier and then real world work. A quick summary for why i thought it was bad was because xzavier's "case" was weak as already noted, onegu didnt really add much with his vote other than he doesnt like aqua's gut feeling. Nothing felt convincing really. I haven't filter dove aqua yet so ill probably do that day 2. Your play has stepped up a TON since the time i put my case on you and it has frankly been a lot more townie than i expected. As for the whole fyfy/stim thing. I've said all along that i thought at the time that stim was a better target as the lurkers werent equal with stim actually posting during the game. Tofu saw them as equal lurkers so thats why we went back and forth on that point. As for night actions, in past games when i tried directing blues, they didnt listen to me and ended up doing something better so im not going to do it this game. | ||
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On June 26 2013 20:01 Aquanim wrote: @Spicydinosaur: What is your read on FormTofu? I'll reply to Onegu's above case later, don't have time at the moment. thought him scummy early on but townie when he defended himself. A few of his posts during the last day though really made me question him. On June 25 2013 16:35 FirmTofu wrote: The fact that you are willing to change your vote to Alakazam but not Spicy is rather arbitrary. When facing death, a townie would be willing to change his vote to anyone to stay alive. You have sealed your fate in my eyes with this response and have furthered confirmed my suspicions of Spicy. As it seems very few people agree with my suspicions of Spicy, I will defer to a sub-optimal lynch of you. ##Unvote: SpicyDinosaur ##Vote: Xzavier He tries to use his suspicion of me to justify a vote on xzavier with horrible logic. I already posted a response to this but it got buried so i will cut/paste what i wrote. The two people who have the most votes are xzavier and aqua. If xzavier wanted to stay alive then he would keep his vote on aqua, otherwise his own chance of being lynched goes up if he takes it off. The fact that he's willing to take his vote OFF of the other major lynch candidate and onto another he thinks is scummy shows that he is scum hunting a little. Though were his vote ultimately ends up is the real indicator. I also dont get how him not voting for me makes him scummier now. No one else in the thread bought your argument against me, yet Xzavier is the only one to receive your wrath for doing so? It looks like you are trying to make arbitrary reasonings to reinforce your vote like you did with me. This next post is him setting up his N1/Day 2 play which continues to try and set me up as mafia for defending xzavier. This just feels like he is hedging his bet or knows that xzavier flips town. Also in his "xzavier is town scenario" he precludes any notion that scum were on xzavier. Furthermore he even says that stim is a better lynch target but doesnt vote him and MAKES NO EFFORT TO GET PEOPLE TO SWITCH TO STIM. His following posts are trying to get people to move to xzavier to ensure a lynch. On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote: I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning. Scenario 1: Xzavier is town Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him. Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do. Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now. On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. no effort is made to get people to switch to stim On June 26 2013 02:23 FirmTofu wrote: Sounds great! Could you consider looking through Xzavier's filter and reading Chromatically's case against Xzavier and consider voting for him? I would be willing to take you off my scum list if you would do that. On June 26 2013 02:24 FirmTofu wrote: Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh We are trying to convince him to vote Xzavier, not antagonize and interrogate him. Furthermore, almost all his posts are focusing on people who DIDNT vote to lynch xzavier. He has a valid point on onegu's apathy and ill filter that separately. But stim, the person who he thought was the scummiest, is no longer mentioned anywhere. The next quote he continues throwing scum at me by saying i knew xzavier would flip town which of course is a load of bull. On June 26 2013 12:34 FirmTofu wrote: Have you ever stopped to consider that the reason they appear the most "clear headed" is because they know that the flip will be town? You realize that if they know the flip is town, they are scum? I mean, this is common sense. The reason they look smart is because they know people's alignment and can act accordingly. He keeps trying to discredit me and anyone who doesnt vote me is my scum buddy (like he said with xzavier). Look at his case against me, i discredited 1/2 of it and what does he do? change his theory around to fit the new facts. Same goes with xzavier, he claimed we were scum buddies and that justified a vote. He was wrong on me and he was wrong on xzavier. Furthermore i dont like how he tries to set up scenarios before the lynch is over that point right back to me. Going to look at the onegu issue now and post my thoughts on that in a separate post. Scum tell are when you find these leaps in logic that indicate that a logical step in their reasoning assumes certain alignments. You've got to keep looking for these things. | ||
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The next quote he continues throwing scum at me by saying i knew xzavier would flip town which of course is a load of bull. On June 26 2013 12:34 FirmTofu wrote: Have you ever stopped to consider that the reason they appear the most "clear headed" is because they know that the flip will be town? You realize that if they know the flip is town, they are scum? I mean, this is common sense. The reason they look smart is because they know people's alignment and can act accordingly. Scum tell are when you find these leaps in logic that indicate that a logical step in their reasoning assumes certain alignments. You've got to keep looking for these things. He keeps trying to discredit me and anyone who doesnt vote me is my scum buddy (like he said with xzavier). Look at his case against me, i discredited 1/2 of it and what does he do? change his theory around to fit the new facts. Same goes with xzavier, he claimed we were scum buddies and that justified a vote. He was wrong on me and he was wrong on xzavier. Furthermore i dont like how he tries to set up scenarios before the lynch is over that point right back to me. Going to look at the onegu issue now and post my thoughts on that in a separate post. | ||
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About his apathy claim between xzavier and aqua: I don't get why he said this as it makes 0 sense from either a town or scum perspective as his vote wasnt even on one of them. What i find more interesting is that regardless of the lynch, he will not be voting for Alakaslam next day. He claimed that if xzavier flips town, aqua gets voted, and if he flips scum, i get voted. What happened to Alakaslam? His Aqua case: He seems to be tunneling aqua now (again?) with an updated case. A lot of it seems very nit picky. but i still come back to one thought... What about Alakaslam? I understand that reads change over time, but onegu went from voting aqua to alakaslam and now back to focusing on aqua. Why isnt alakaslam a priority target now? Unless i missed a post buried in the 6 pages of thread i caught up on. | ||
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On June 26 2013 23:14 hzflank wrote: @Aqua: Do you realize how many negative little posts you made about Onegu on day 1? If you are town then this is a good reason for someone to start a wagon on Onegu on day 2, because you were on the wrong wagon on day 1 and it looks like someone can easily get you on Onegu's wagon on day 2. Then you get outed on on the day 3 lylo and the scum get an easy win. If you are town, I would suggest you make yourself very sure of Onegu's guilt before you jump on his wagon, because I think that you are being played. Any talk of D2 lynches is dangerous as scum can easily redirect night actions. Posting cases and thoughts are fine, but anything that resembles "as soon as d2 post is up my vote is on x" should be avoided. | ||
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On June 27 2013 00:47 Chromatically wrote: About Spicy It's hard to tell if his reasons for not voting Xzav are legit, given that I disagreed with them. They could be real or artificial as far as I can tell, I can't get anything from that. What I don't like (and this is a general statement about Spicy, Stim, and Onegu) is that when your vote is not on a leading wagon, you should be doing your ABSOLUTE BEST to push your read. This is especially true if you have a town read on the leader. A townie would do everything that they can to prevent a mislynch. Spicy defends Xzav a little, but then drops it with this post: He backs off of defending Xzav because "1/2 the thread thinks im scum" for it. This is a clear exaggeration. At most, ONE person had called him scum for defending Xzavier. Is this overstatement a sign of a scum persecution complex? Maybe. I also really don't like how he gave up on Xzav so easily. Maybe it's just a playstyle difference, but if I think someone is about to be mislynched, I would be posting a TON, urging voteswitches, and aggressively trying to move the lynch. That last part you quoted was in reference to pushing hurricane, not defending xzavier as the previous sentence was talking about hurricane's case. Immediately after i posted a defense of xzavier i got replies from you, lone, onegu, and tofu. Perhaps its because i was on the defensive most of D1 so the quick replies by a bunch of people got me into that feeling. I tried my best to counter but it went nowhere. My defense of xzavier was based off of meta, and people didnt agree with it, so what else could i have said? I would just be repeating myself. It feels weird that it looks scummy that i didnt defend xzavier enough and yet i look scummy for tofu for defending too much (or at all). Also please look at my recent post about tofu about not pushing scum reads. | ||
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On June 27 2013 00:52 Onegu wrote: I am ok voteing alakaslam but I dont think he is that much of a threat to town, my 2 other scum reads by thier playstyle are more dangerous to town. What about their playstyles makes them more dangerous? | ||
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On June 27 2013 01:13 Chromatically wrote: Was your townread on Xzav solely based on meta? The problem that Tofu and I have with your defense of Xzav is the same. A Townie would: 1) Vote Xzav if they think that he's scum. 2) Vote someone else and push them really hard if they think that Xzav is scum, but someone else is worse. 3) Defend Xzav really hard if they have a townread. Scum would: 5) Defend Xzav a little, but not enough to move the vote, for town cread. Your defense of Xzav looks much more like Scum option 5 than it does Townie option 2 or 3 because you weren't pushing Sponge hard and you didn't defend Xzav hard. You're defending Xzav just enough to look good after the flip, but not enough to actually move the lynch. It was meta combined his play during D1. After the last game he was quite upset with himself for his bad reads and was going to be more cautious about them. Thats what convinced me. It wasn't a strong case defending him since it was meta based and didnt make sense from a scum point of view. Last newbie game i defended a townie that looked scummy but i stated it didnt make sense from a scum perspective for him to act like that. Similar reasoning here with the added meta. Also if I were scum why would i expose myself this much when the sure fire easiest thing to do is to just move onto xzavier with you and others posting cases about his play in this game? I truly thought he was town and had no reservations about going against the town sentiment. If i voted xzavier would anyone even bat an eye at me right now (except for tofu)? | ||
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On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote: Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine. He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you. Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote: I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning. Scenario 1: Xzavier is town Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him. Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do. Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now. On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. | ||
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On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote: Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. | ||
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On June 27 2013 02:54 FirmTofu wrote: Lying is definitely not a scum tell. Read the mafia guide by Ver. Its a scum tell in this situation. Why would you need to lie in order to secure their votes? there were already cases against xzavier that you decided not to push. Instead u had to make up lies to get people over. Why was is it so important to lie to lynch Xzavier if his lynch was such a sure thing? You pushed hard for his lynch in a very deceitful way. Also given the fact that you are refusing to look at people who actually voted to to kill xzavier means u dont want people to look at you. You talk so much now how it was obvious that xzavier was going to be lynched, yet there was a time the vote was 3-3, and then later 4-4. Not at all clear cut. But you keep deflecting away from yourself at every possible turn. You have yet to comment on how bad your logic was with xzavier and I being scum buddies and your overall play during the lynching period. | ||
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On June 27 2013 06:25 FirmTofu wrote: + Show Spoiler + On June 26 2013 20:58 Onegu wrote: Going to make a case on FirmTofu also as looking over his filter looks scummy also. His first post is nothing, it doesnt promote a good town atmosphere nor does it get anyone to defend themself as the cases are just BS. Again this is jsut posting about a discussion we were haveing and posting something on it but not actually giving a good reason. Sorry it is boring is not a legitimate reason to do or not do something in mafia. As I am about to go to bed, I would like to go ahead and##Vote: fyfy because he is the only person who hasn't spoken yet. Keep your eye on Stim and Meow as well because they are lurking, especially Stim. Such a wierd choice on who to vote but more on this in a moment. But it was pure spam, when you say it was something fun that means it is spam. But why try to get someone who hasnt talked at all to try to talk? Someone who you know has posted and is most likely to post again is a much better choice to pressure, unless of course you dont want them to have to talk more... So you agree with almost everything? You agree with almost everything but its just plausable and you have town reads on both of them. What a quick backpeddle there, why so fast? But there was a big differance and in no way were they interchangeable as all you have to do is look at the ammount of posts they have had. It makes a HUGE difference that one line means you know someone has posted and more likely to post again, while you do not know if the other will post or not. Why do you keep on there is no difference when there is one and spicy wasnt the only one to point it out, with fyfy fliping green this becomes much more relevant. Why post this all it is is fluff and takes up space. So you are happy at first with my statement what changed? So you blast me for saying I have a better read on alakaslam but not voteing him then when I do vote him I am scum, but you didnt think the xzavier lynch didnt have the highest chance to flip scum? And me saying before the lynch I am ok with either lynch because the xzavier lynch gives town the most information, but when you say the same thing after the lynch that is perfectly ok? REALLY? Directing blue roles is bad and wrong dont do it. This is bullying you say if you dont vote how I want you to then you are scum and I will come after you also. If he doesnt make the choice you want him to then there will be consequences is the definition of bullying. Where are these people and I would ask them to look at your filter again and go ahead and say you are one of the most pro-town people in this game. You have tunneled spicy, xzavier and me and havent done much else other than bully alakaslam andmpost fluff. And when Xzavier flips town you say you didnt even expect him to flip scum. Here is the post accusing me of everything and anything Onegu could get his hands on. Although I have addressed nearly all of his points in various posts, I will condense it and address each one in detail here so that you only have at one place to read all of it. Onegu and Spicy's Point 1: FirmTofu made a scummy first post that detracted from the quality of the thread. My Defense: If anything, I made some good cases against people who had already talked based on what I knew at the time. Look at the other posts in the first few hours of day 1. Are any of those similarly fluffy? Is mine somehow more filled with fluff than any of those? Honestly, at that point, what do you expect me to say? Onegu and Spicy's Point 2: FirmTofu doesn't want us to discuss metagaming and is therefore scummy. My Defense: I don't want to discuss metagaming because I am philosophically against it. If you look at any of my other games, I have not once discussed previous games to influence the ongoing one(Oh, the irony is strong with me). Onegu and Spicy's Point 3: FirmTofu voted fyfy instead of StiMaDDict who had posted once in the thread. Voting someone who hasn't talked(fyfy) when you see that there is someone who has talked(StiM but has lurked is scummy because StiM actually has a chance of responding. My Defense: I voted fyfy because he hadn't posted. I wanted him to post. I also wanted StiM to post, in fact, I told everyone to keep an eye on him. The only reason I didn't vote StiM as well is because I can't actually vote twice. To say it is scummy to vote for one guy who I thought was scummy instead of the other guy I thought was scummy is ignorant. I would have voted for both if I could have. Onegu and Spicy's Point 3: FirmTofu agreed with hzflank's theory that Aqua and Chromatically were secretly working together, but then quickly backpedaled and said he didn't think it was likely. My Defense: I didn't backpedal. I articulated my thoughts on the matter through a series of posts. My statement was that hzflank's theory was plausible, but unlikely. I never deviated from that line of reasoning. My first post says that I almost agree with all of his reasoning because I knew it was a possible scenario. My later posts explain that even though it is possible, it's very unlikely to be true. Even hzflank admitted later that his theory wasn't likely to be true. Was he backpedaling too, why do you think he is free of blame? Onegu and Spicy's Point 4: FirmTofu blasted Onegu about the fact that he didn't get on the Xzavier lynch and instead voted for Alakslam, but now FirmTofu is still accusing Onegu as scum when he didn't vote for town-flipped Xzavier. My Defense: You are taking the situation out of context and making it sound like I had the same beliefs at both times. Pre-lynch, I was under the assumption that Xzavier would flip mafia, therefore I thought you were mafia for avoiding lynching him. It looked like you were trying to save your mafia buddy, so I called you out on that. Post-lynch, circumstances changed. As I have explained numerous times, your actions of voting Alakslam (to make yourself appear as though you are town by not voting Xzavier who you know is town) and your statement of apathy is what convinced me that you are scum. Onegu and Spicy's Point 5: FirmTofu lied to Hurricane to get Hurricane to vote for Xzavier. My Defense: I lied to ensure that Aquanim would not get lynched. If you recall correctly, my first choice lynch was actually Spicy and the only reason I ever switched to Xzavier was because no one was backing me up and my vote was essentially useless. I agreed many town members that Xzavier was scummy based on numerous points, so I decided he would be a decent person to lynch and get some information on. Remember, I had to defer to a sub-optimal lynch! All the other points don't amount to much and just aim to hurt my town cred. If there is anything specific I haven't addressed, please let me know. Why the hell are you saying onegu and me when i didnt even raise some of these points against you? I have never said anything on 3 and 4. Your constant manipulation to try to lump us together is absurd. As is the way you misconstrue or even ignore my other against you. Here is where you tried to lump xzavier and i together because he wouldnt vote for me. Please respond to what i posted in reply that you completely ignored. The two people who have the most votes are xzavier and aqua. If xzavier wanted to stay alive then he would keep his vote on aqua, otherwise his own chance of being lynched goes up if he takes it off. The fact that he's willing to take his vote OFF of the other major lynch candidate and onto another he thinks is scummy shows that he is scum hunting a little. Though were his vote ultimately ends up is the real indicator. I also dont get how him not voting for me makes him scummier now. No one else in the thread bought your argument against me, yet Xzavier is the only one to receive your wrath for doing so? It looks like you are trying to make arbitrary reasonings to reinforce your vote like you did with me. Pure manipulation at its finest. Here is what i wrote about his fyfy vote and i never claimed it was scummy, just bothering me. Lastly his vote on fyfy has been bugging me. It is clearly a pressure vote to get him active but why target fyfy over stim? Stim actually posted at the beginning of the day right after the day post, then dissipated. He was there reading the thread but not actively posting. This seems scummier than fyfy at the moment. Also in regards to your point 2: Your refusal to look at meta narrows your evidence. That is a fact. You can argue how useful it could be. But when you say that im overly defensive and its scummy... but it could be explained by personality, and you wont look at meta, which would BACK UP the personality, you refuse. That is just unwillingness to look at evidence. Last question for you tofu... Why didnt you come forward to the town after your lie to explain what you did? why did u hide it if you are town? | ||
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_____________________________________________________________________ On June 25 2013 16:35 FirmTofu wrote: The fact that you are willing to change your vote to Alakazam but not Spicy is rather arbitrary. When facing death, a townie would be willing to change his vote to anyone to stay alive. You have sealed your fate in my eyes with this response and have furthered confirmed my suspicions of Spicy. As it seems very few people agree with my suspicions of Spicy, I will defer to a sub-optimal lynch of you. ##Unvote: SpicyDinosaur ##Vote: Xzavier The two people who have the most votes are xzavier and aqua. If xzavier wanted to stay alive then he would keep his vote on aqua, otherwise his own chance of being lynched goes up if he takes it off. The fact that he's willing to take his vote OFF of the other major lynch candidate and onto another he thinks is scummy shows that he is scum hunting a little. Though were his vote ultimately ends up is the real indicator. I also dont get how him not voting for me makes him scummier now. No one else in the thread bought your argument against me, yet Xzavier is the only one to receive your wrath for doing so? It looks like you are trying to make arbitrary reasonings to reinforce your vote like you did with me. ________________________________________________________________________ | ||
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On June 27 2013 07:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote: I'm starting to think that you two don't like each other very much. @Spicy what's your secondary read? There are still 3 mafia out there, you can't possibly think Tofu is the only one. If you got Tofu lynched and he flipped town, what would your next move be? If you got Tofu lynched and he flipped scum, what would your next move be? I've been tunnelling tofu, perhaps too much right now, so i really havn't look at anyone else recently. I do want to look at everyone who voted xzavier because im pretty darn sure at least one scum was on him. I dont want to speculate too much on a tofu flip, all i know is that if he flips town im dead next as we were at each other the most. Beyond that i really dont know right now. | ||
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@hurricane: good point. Will be filter diving and hopefully post some constructive thoughts before the end of night. | ||
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Stim Stim is playing similar to how he did last game, which to put it simply, wasn't helpful. He only has 1 read and its on aqua. His argument can be boiled down to three points: 1. Aqua had a bad policy argument and contradicted himself. 2. His case on chrom was extremely weak and he backed off chrom rather quickly. 3. He was looking for a lynch target and found it in xzavier. Stim's vote was off wagon so that doesn't tell us much at all. That's basically all there is to go on. We don't know a hell of a lot about him other than the above. So with that he could easily be a lazy townie or deliberate scum. I also dont know if a pressure vote would work on him if he only checks the forum at the last second. It is really a coin flip with him. As others have said, decent vig target. Lone One of the lesser active posters. He was on xzavier from the beginning and looked at xzavier's meta like i did, but came up with the opposite conclusion. He stayed on xzavier and defended his decision against me. He was actively answering questions around the lynch time. He's playing similar to his last game where he came in late and got a townie lynced, but ended up being town himself. Null/town read but hasnt really done anything bad yet. Would like to see more discussion. Alakaslam I feel he is closest to chaos incarnate. I think it is a deliberate play to be so utterly confusing for the most part that neither town nor scum would want to kill him. His first day of post was useless as he himself put it. His switch from voting aqua to xzavier is what's interesting. On June 25 2013 21:49 Alakaslam wrote: Scum reads? Finally got one: Aquanim. Haven't read filters, haven't got a case, just want to contribute a skimmer's gut feeling before possible drasticness. Take it or leave it, especially as I must sleep as checkout is 1 pm and I checked In at a defeated 4:30. Fail at job, fail here but there is always another game and the farm will irrigate again in a week or less. ##Vote: Aquanim and then the unvote On June 26 2013 03:52 Alakaslam wrote: Hey had some sleep now sorry for being a melodramatic asshole, you guys are right. I am still decidin between bandwagons, and will EXPLAIN my choice when I make it, promise. ## Unvote: Aquanim and then the vote on xzavier On June 26 2013 10:11 Alakaslam wrote: ok. Thanks. Then I like your Filter. Reading filters is so liberating! I now see both sides, as I have read Xzavier's filter, and thought he was town, because all I saw was pro-Xzavier posts (duh). Now, having read Aquanim's case AGAINST him, I go back to what I thought before, except with this: Xzavier, sorry. Nothing you can do to get this off your back. ##Vote: Xzavier I was a little suspicious of Onegu. So he's my next "Scum" read, but really my read is neutral toward him. He DID clean up my [expletive], after all. Nice to be at home/work pc again. Will keep reading filters, "so this is how you people make cases".... diz my play diz game yall duh hurdurr ^^ His later stuff dealing with onegu feels like he has this weird feeling that onegu is bad and was just waiting for someone to make a case on him. Either that or he's just trying to get an early start on the sheeping. So in summary, as xzavier turned out to be a townie, im more inclined to think he is null/scummy. Could very well be noob town. But the amount of chaos in his post feels calculated. I wouldn't want to lynch him but try to get a more active discussion out of him. Aquanim I completely disagreed on his early policy of having the NN claim and his voting of chrom felt very premature. He talks about policy while his vote is on chrom and doesnt seem to be scum hunting anyone else, as he mostly just asks others what they are thinking. I also think he went on a little too long with the whole NN issue as he didnt scum hunt as much during it. His vote on xzavier felt very "you voted for me, well screw you back." Xzavier wasn't really on his radar till the vote and then he went all out on him. His arguments did feel genuine and has been active in discussions. Town read. Hurricane He was changed the most from when i voted him. I still stand by my vote at the time but his subsequent posts have been extraordinarily better and i have a town read on him now. Chrom: Had an early town read on him up until the vote. he went all out on the xzavier lynch and ended up being wrong. Still think he is towny, but lately it seems he isnt really reading cases/opnions as much. When i posted about tofu about his voting, Chrom completely excused it. I had to re-quote something that was very troubling about tofu. Only after that did he really take a look, which then led to Tofu explaining his lie. Still town in my eyes but got some issues. Onegu: already posted about him but just want to reiterate that i didnt like his vote switch and will sheep other's concerns on the apathy issue. null read I'm going out for the rest of the night so If im still alive i'll be on in the morning. | ||
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On June 27 2013 10:18 Aquanim wrote: [/spoiler]On Spicydinosaur The point was made early in the thread that Spicy was playing defensively. I would rather term his play as "reactive". Spicy's reply to this was as follows: I thought maybe I should actually go and read Les Mafia. Oh boy..... In Les Mafia, Spicydinosaur was a Parity Cop. I would characterise his play in the following way:
I strongly suggest that everybody read Les Mafia and get your own feeling for Spicy's play in that game. (Before anyone yells out that meta isn't a valid tool for analysis, Spicy provided this HIMSELF to justify his actions. Obviously, he thinks that it is a valid tool to analyse his play.) His argument with FirmTofu (you know the one) isn't particularly alignment-indicative to me. He is flinging a lot of shit at FirmTofu, but I can't say that he wouldn't do this as town too. This section of his filter could bear further analysis I feel. Spicy's reads so far (shortly summarised) are as follows:
I may have missed some reads but I don't think any of them were significant. In short, none of these reads make me think "town" and they all seem pretty convenient from a scummy perspective. Do I think Spicy's scum for not arguing harder for a switch away from Xzavier onto Hurricane? Not really, the thread sentiment was pretty strong against Xzavier at that point and it would take an awfully strong townie to face up to that. But it certainly isn't a towny indication, either. tl;dr I haven't found much of anything in Spicy's filter which makes me strongly think town, and unlike Onegu I'd expect there to be something if he was town. My gut says scum, but I want to look for more before drawing final conclusions. On Onegu [spoiler] As far as I can tell the case on Onegu boils down to a few main points: 1) His 'apathy' to the day one wagons - generally indicative of scum not wanting to take responsibility. 2) The less-than-persuasive nature of his cases Is this a plausible interpretation of Onegu's actions if he's scum? I think it is. However, it is not the only possible interpretation. 1) Onegu did, and always has had, a scumread on me. I suspect it's mostly a gut read, since the reasons he's raising are not very strong. He was at one point the primary force behind my wagon, I'd say; at least he was arguing his point. However, at a certain point he jumped off my vote and went to Alakaslam instead. If he's scum, he could have convincingly stayed on my wagon for a great deal longer than he did - hell, he could have rode that wagon all the way to a mislynch without looking terminally scummy. He wasn't under a great deal of pressure to move his vote at that point, except from me - I have difficulty seeing the direct scum motivation for this move. Question: After switching vote to Alakaslam, do you think Onegu *could* have switched his vote back to me without looking absolutely awful, whatever his actual alignment? As such, was he actually as apathetic to the lynch as the final place his vote ended up might indicate? Onegu had already taken a fair bit of responsibility for his read on me. Furthermore, do you think Onegu was capable of effectively arguing against the strong prevailing thread sentiment towards the end of the day? I don't. 2) Just because he's wrong, and hasn't made accurate cases, is no guarantee that Onegu is scum. The question you have to ask yourself is "Is Onegu honestly searching the thread and trying to find scum?". Again, for me, this is a definite maybe. I still want to see Onegu play some more to convince myself whether he is sincere in his accusations. Other people in this game are reading filters and making high-level, rational conclusions from their overal understanding of the game, and that's a town indication for me. Scum prefer to nitpick because it's harder for them to be caught out in a lie or inconsistency, and is inherently less work. They're not interested in That being said, just because someone isn't effectively hunting for scum doesn't mean they aren't trying to hunt for scum. I think the most important thing in trying to read Onegu is to assess whether he is honestly and sincerely trying to find scum. tl;dr I think there is a reasonable explanation for Onegu's actions from both a town and a scum perspective. Just wanted to address a few points: Im not sure i follow when you say "My feeling is that in Les Mafia Spicy is giving reasons for his suspicions, whereas in this game he is giving justifications for his vote." I gave my reasons for suspecting tofu early on and there was no vote there. Also can you explain the difference between reasons and justifications the way you use it? I also completely disagree with how you claim i defended myself in les mafia. Barely batting an eye? Here is what i wrote in response to someone voting me: "If you want to bring my meta into this then fine. the newbie game reads were a hell of a lot easier. My analysis has been the same in both games, posting analysis of players. Simply because some of my earlier analysis didnt come up scum doesnt mean that my play is different. Take my recent read on you that you haven't responded to. Called you scum for your consolidation and rampant vote changing. Your tunneling of me this late goes against everything you said about consolidation in your earlier posts. You are scum and your attempt to get a late day bandwagoning going is evident of it. " The rest of it is just explaining my fucked up post. (quick aside for anyone who didnt want to read les mafia, i was voted for posting a horrible case on one person but contained posts of another). You also now think my initial case on tofu is "trash" and yet earlier you stated this: On June 25 2013 12:36 Aquanim wrote: I'm not interested in lynching any of those three today, if that's what you're asking. I can see the thought process of all three and I can easily see all of it coming from a town mindset, even if I don't agree with a lot of it. Clear contradiction. Laslty, my read on hurricane was bad because he was afk and posted nothing but fluff? How does that make it ok? | ||
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On June 27 2013 23:48 FirmTofu wrote: @Spicy After looking over my case on Onegu, what are your thoughts on him? I think points 1 and 5 are the weakest and dont really hold that much weight. On point 1 i dont see the contradiction in between the two quotes. You both agree that using meta isnt a good idea. What he is saying (at least how im reading it) is that your reason for not using it (because its boring) isnt a good reason at all. Point 5 is just completely self serving "tofu is pro-town and anyone who attacks me is scum trying to hurt my credibility." Got a question on point 3: How do you pressure someone during a night cycle? Did you want him to make a new case on him? What were you expecting him to post? If he was sincere about his sentiment to vote aqua because of the way the lynch goes, then i would expect a case today or a damn good reason why he is backing off of that. Your other points on apathy and the vote switch i believe are valid concerns as i have previously stated and i dont think he's adequately stated why. | ||
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On June 28 2013 02:12 LoneMeow wrote: SpicyDinosaur, I haven't seen any recent scum reads from you, who are you suspecting currently and why? Really? You are probably the only person in the thread besides stim who hasn't seen tofu and i going at each other. As i said my my night post that you, stim, onegu, and alakaslam are who im looking at. I want to see more people posting today so i can narrow down a vote for tomorrow. | ||
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On June 28 2013 03:57 FirmTofu wrote: I would just like to say that I have moved you and Alakaslam onto my town list. I will expand on this during night. Right now, I want to focus on getting the lynch on Onegu through. I sincerely hope we can count on your vote. Please expand on this now as any information that will help narrow down targets is helpful. | ||
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On June 28 2013 06:32 Onegu wrote: I want to post something before I sleep. I am the Pink Ranger and I watched Alakaslam last night and he was visited by my biggest town read last night. I wont say who that is because I dont want them to be a target. Seriously?! I'm really not liking the delayed information today. | ||
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On June 28 2013 08:22 Hurricane Sponge wrote: It's pretty consistent with his other bed-times, looking back at the other game and this one. At least he got the info to us now, but I agree... it's not ideal to drop something this big in the room and then leave for 8 hours. Yeah so it looks like we are in a hold pattern on him until someone counter claims or he comes back. Stim hasnt spoken since the lynch. Assuming he comes in before the vote and drops a case again, what would you think about that? would it mostly depend on the case? | ||
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On June 28 2013 08:44 FirmTofu wrote: He is claiming that either Spicy or hzflank is a blue town role that visited Alakaslam last right. He refuses to say which of the two, but it is very easy to narrow down for any observer. What purpose did it serve to keep town in the dark? Either hzflank or Spicy needs to confirm what Onegu is saying about them, otherwise an Onegu lynch remains inevitable. Even if hzflank or Spicy confirm, we have to consider that they may be in a mafia team together. We will need to gather evidence for and against this and analyze it with the information we have at our disposal. It could also be the case that Onegu is a mafia tracker who tracked a town hzflank or Spicy to Alakaslam's house. We would also have to find evidence to refute this possibility. Kinda hypocritical of you right there? On June 28 2013 03:57 FirmTofu wrote: I would just like to say that I have moved you and Alakaslam onto my town list. I will expand on this during night. Right now, I want to focus on getting the lynch on Onegu through. I sincerely hope we can count on your vote. More information is better for town. | ||
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On June 28 2013 08:52 Aquanim wrote: @Spicy: What is your read on Alakaslam? Neutral/scummy. His chaotic play feels very deliberate which doesnt tell me anything about alignment. He voted for a townie so that's why its in the scum direction. His read on onegu is hard to understand, at least for me as it seems he sheeps other's opinions, dead chrom and tofu. Haven't seen his own "case" yet. He's at least posting more than stim did, though with about 95% more fluff. | ||
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On June 28 2013 09:08 Aquanim wrote: Assuming that we conclude Onegu's claim is legit, who do you want to lynch today? Really too soon to say. I want to hear from stim, alakaslam and Onegu. Stim started posting more D2 in the last game i believe so i hope he does so again, but if not he's at the top atm. I'd like Alakaslam to clarify where he stands. | ||
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On June 28 2013 09:01 FirmTofu wrote: No, not hypocritical. Telling you why you are a town read for me serves to purpose except to derail the thread into a tangent about you. I had one purpose back when I said that, and that was to push my biggest scum read (Onegu). On the other hand, when Onegu keeps is in the dark here, scum is the only party that gains an advantage. He can't just claim, run off to bed without clarifying his night actions, and expect to get off scot-free. We have over 24 hours till voting is done. We can and should discuss more than just onegu. You pegged me for scum and now im town, that seems like a very important revelation. If anyone else switched off their scum target and says they think they are town now, you would be all over them asking why. You should be no different. | ||
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On June 28 2013 09:57 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Until Alakaslam enters the thread, our time would be better spent discussing other scumreads (if for nothing else, than to get our heads a little cooler on the claim issue). LoneMeow has put a vote on Alakaslam, and has been pretty stingy with his reads. Chromatically raised an excellent point in his pre-NK post that LM has been very clever about following thread sentiment without raising any attention. 1. Doesn't want to make waves 2. Lurks hardcore 3. Accuses others of not contributing The next original thought I hear out of LoneMeow will be the first. Put your cards on the table, LM. What are your scum reads? He has been flying under the radar. Though the alakslam vote seems different, wouldn't it be easier to just sheep onto the onegu vote? Either way, needs more posting than 1 person per round. | ||
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On June 28 2013 20:25 hzflank wrote: So they happen to watch Hurricane, who happens to have a power role, who happens to use it on the same person that you pick to watch. Specifically, we need to look at why the scum chose to track Hurricane. This is important. Btw, it was no accident that our cop died on night 1. Look at Chromatically's filter, he was telegraphing cop. Unfortunately the town did not pick up on this a provide any cover (by acting like a cop). The scum picked up on it though and therefore they are obviously trying to work out who has roles. Thats a hell of a lot of coincidences. Also by reading thread has hurricane actually confirmed he visited alakaslam or are we just assuming it? | ||
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On June 28 2013 09:01 FirmTofu wrote: No, not hypocritical. Telling you why you are a town read for me serves to purpose except to derail the thread into a tangent about you. I had one purpose back when I said that, and that was to push my biggest scum read (Onegu). On the other hand, when Onegu keeps is in the dark here, scum is the only party that gains an advantage. He can't just claim, run off to bed without clarifying his night actions, and expect to get off scot-free. We have over 24 hours till voting is done. We can and should discuss more than just onegu. You pegged me for scum and now im town, that seems like a very important revelation. If anyone else switched off their scum target and says they think they are town now, you would be all over them asking why. You should be no different. | ||
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On June 28 2013 22:06 hzflank wrote: Hurricane confirmed it. I did not like the way that he confirmed it, as you will read. However, Hurricane was my strongest town read and he was extremely tired at the time. Yeah the way it was reading it seemed like he was alluding to it and everyone else just made the connection. I have a town read on hurricane as well since the vote, and his reaction to this whole thing has been sincere. I dont see a reason he would be lying at this point | ||
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Scum Onegu: Onegu had pressure on him early D2, nothing overwhelming but it was there. He panics, fake claims watcher and picks alakaslam. There was no real strategic advantage to claiming this early as others have pointed out. This only works if scum have happened to be watching Hurricane the night before and he ended up on alakaslam. This also only works if scum knew hurricane had a role where he to visit someone (so no vt, veteran). This also works if Hurricane is scum with onegu and they had this planned all along, with onegu either tracking/framing hurricane and hurricane either not doing anything that night or track/framed alakslam. All of the above is predicated on there being a plan in place already. It seems a much easier route would be for scum onegu to easily have picked another town role, say veteran and that would ensure his safety for at least another day due to people not wanting to risk killing 2 blues in a day, plus with the added assurance that if another person claimed veteran, it doesnt necessarily conflict. Town Onegu: Similar start, Onegu gets pressure, panics and claims. Everything he says is true and that Alakaslam is scum. Hurricane confirms what he Onegu has said, which doesnt automatically mean hurricane is town as he could still could have been framing alakaslam. So alakslam counter claims and says he actually tracked onegu and HE visited hurricane. Obviously with tracking theres no way to back that up as there wasnt a role block on hurricane. So assuming alakslam is scum, why would he claim this? Well it would implicate 2 people (onegu and hurricane) and kill a blue. The scum onegu scenario is a lot more complicated and has a lot more assumptions as hz put it. On June 28 2013 20:25 hzflank wrote: So they happen to watch Hurricane, who happens to have a power role, who happens to use it on the same person that you pick to watch. As this vote can truly go either way, this isnt final but town onegu seems more likely at this point. ##Vote: Alakaslam | ||
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On June 29 2013 00:21 hzflank wrote: I disagree. Why would a Vet claim save him? There is no way for town to ever confirm his Vet claim. There is no good reason for him to claim Vet at that time. In fact, if he had claimed Vet I would of seen it as a scummy claim. I used vet as an example. It increases his chances i think, at the very least it would give more pause to people wanting to lynch him. There was still over 24 hours left in the day before the vote when he claimed, so it would probably come down to a blue claiming onegu vs someone else. That blue claim may have given him an edge. Some people may not have believed it but it does give people pause is all im saying. | ||
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On June 29 2013 01:16 FirmTofu wrote: Last night, the mafia tracker Onegu visited Hurricane. Onegu learned that Hurricane visited Alakaslam. This scenario is compatible with Alakaslam's claim that he tracked Onegu who visited Hurricane. Today, Onegu was being pressured hard and wanted to get the pressure off of himself. He decided that the best way would be to claim watcher and say he watched Alakaslam and have his "strongest town read" confirm him. The problem was that Hurricane is the Nosy Neighbor and didn't actually know where he went. That's why Hurricane came into the thread accusing Onegu, not Alakaslam. This establishes that 1) Onegu did not make a bad move as scum. Risky? Sure. Bad? No. 2) Hurricane is innocent. For all those who vote Alakaslam, you must ask yourselves who the other two mafias are. StiM and LoneMeow is a cop out answer. Look at how fast the Alakaslam wagon is rising. I guaruntee that all or most of scum are already on it. Stop avoiding me and answer my question about why you changed your mind about me. | ||
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On June 29 2013 01:26 FirmTofu wrote: I'm not avoiding you. Answering you is useless because I have changed my mind once again an I think you are scum. I don't new to tell you why I thought you were town at one point because I no longer think that is the case. I might tell someone who I think is town, but I'm certainly not was in my time answering your questions when we need to be focusing on this lynch. Glad you confirmed you lied again to try and get my vote on onegu as you came up with no explanation. | ||
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On June 29 2013 03:33 FirmTofu wrote: There are too many people on the Alakaslam bandwagon, meaning that scum has to be on it. Q: Why would scum vote out their own man? A: They wouldn't. They are voting for someone they know to be town. Hurricane, I am deeply disappointed in you. You need to consider what the mafia team could possibly be at this point if Alakaslam is mafia. Or they could be bussing and trying to get ahead of the wagon. you ever consider scum splitting up the votes? Also suprising you didnt apply this logic to the xzavier vote. 7 people were on him and you didnt go "oh shit this guy has to be town," no you kept your vote on him and lied to get others to join. You cant use this logic when you completely ignored it in the past. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 29 2013 03:54 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Likely, my reads would be StiM and LoneMeow. I'd have to briefly re-evaluate you, Spicy and HZ. There are more open ends with that situation than any other, but the point is moot because we'd have lynched a mafia, which is good. I would suggest relooking at tofu now as he's heavily trying to change your vote. He's already proven once that he lies to get a vote on a townie, and then again this morning he tried lying to me to get more to vote on onegu. He's also been wrong about most of the connections between people in this game (ie me and xzavier being scum buddies, onegu's town read being me or hz). | ||
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On June 29 2013 03:59 Hurricane Sponge wrote: The time will come for that. A tofu lynch is not productive for the town at this juncture. Didnt mean it as a lynch candidate for today, but the way he has manipulated people voting in the past is relevant. | ||
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On June 29 2013 04:01 FirmTofu wrote: Again, I want to reiterate that I am not voting Onegu because he is 100% scum. I believe the evidence against Onegu outweighs anything placed on Alakaslam. I also cannot see how or why a scum team would tell the flustering and bumbling Alakaslam to claim. Alakaslam genuinely looks like he is acting independently of any external input(aside from maybe a town coach). Your assuming he did this with the other's consent. As you pointed out right after, he acts independently. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 29 2013 04:09 FirmTofu wrote: Why would he act independently if he had a mafia team, though? For the exact purpose of getting you to think like this. We both know there are general assumptions of how scum players act or are supposed to act. We also know that scum change up their game and do things that wouldnt exactly line up as scummy to better hide. | ||
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On June 29 2013 04:16 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Spicy, this is WIFOM, and I don't think it's the most likely scenario. I think 'Slam may have acted independently because he has to. If StiM and Lonemeow are afk in mafia QT, 'slam is having to make these plays himself. I agree its probably not what occurred, i just didnt like tofu assuming it away like he has some additional knowledge of the situation. | ||
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On June 29 2013 05:15 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Going through the filters, I now think I have figured out who the entire scum team is if 'Slam mislynches. I will vet it properly before I post it, but it will be ready for posting once Night Time hits. Got a list as well, though i have a feeling its not going to line up with yours. I'm still hoping that 'slam is scum and that the vote was overwhelming because of bussing. Would make this figuring out a lot easier. As for stim, im more looking forward to his explanation of the vote rather than the vote itself. Town or scum can easily be seen on either side, especially with the votes the way they are. | ||
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On June 29 2013 18:09 FirmTofu wrote: Spicy, I would like to extend the same courtesy to you. Please make a strong case on your best scum read so that we may ascertain your alignment. Tell us why we should vote for him instead of you. If you do not do this, you will be the default lynch after Onegu dies. Cant do quotes right now because im posting from a phone. Onegu is obviously scum at this point. Though everyone will admit that so its irrelevant. Either lone or stim is scum or both. Im not convinced of stim as he jumped in the conversation at the last moment. What he said sounded towny, but with the way the votes were, and if he were actually mafia, he would obviously know which way alakaslam would flip so he made a nice posts to get town cred. Lone for pretty much everyone else's reasons, 2 votes on townie, activity level is the bare minimum not to get noticed D1. Im still not convinced tofu isnt scum. He lied to get people to vote a townie. His defense of 'slam can easily just be for town cred as his two scum buddies were already on him. Mostly everyone in the thread knows our sentiment towards each other so ill move on. Aqua i have a null read on and will need to look into his filter a lot more. He voted to kill two townies and made a big case against 'slam that i agreed with to an extent. I didnt find his call for people to claim roleblock scummy though as its standard mafia game practice to claim (learned this lesson the hard way). His interaction with onegu is the most troubling as others have pointed out. They were butting heads D1, and onegu put a vote on him, but when it looked like there could be a real chance that aqua would get enough votes, onegu switched off. And then D2, Aqua defended onegu when there was a chance onegu would flip. ------------------------------------------------------------- A quick aside about me. Theres no point in convincing tofu im not scum at this point as he has his mind made up. But for everyone else look at my filter. I defended xzavier because i didnt think his play made sense from a scum perspective and for meta reasons at the end of last game. I defended Gotard in the last newbie game D1 using the same logic (minus the meta) and argued that it didnt make sense for scum gotard to play that way. For my vote on hurricane, i stand by it at the time as his filter was complete fluff and he had posted a case on a lurker which i felt was a cop out. I had since revised my read and he is town. For the 'slam vote, i stand by my reasoning as it seemed like there had to be too many coincidences for scum to figure out who hurricane was. The odds seemed to be in Onegu's favor due to hurricane admitted (or at least implying and everyone else assuming that he visited 'slam) vs 'slam's word. Obviously i was wrong but i never saw a case on the other side that pointed out how scum figured hurricane out, i think that was the key for me. | ||
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On June 29 2013 18:58 Onegu wrote: So just a thought you guys have me confirmed mafia, so why not wait to lynch me doesnt it give you more info to see where my vote goes nope you die | ||
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On June 29 2013 12:59 StiMaDDict wrote: I swear.. is it just me or does Aquanim sounds like he's CHOOSING who the lynch target would be rather than actually lynching scum. It might just be me but it was like this Day1 as well. He was like, "Who should I vote, hmm... Xzavier!" If i recall i dont think aqua had any suspicion on xzavier before his vote and it did feel retaliatory. In aqua's post where he votes for xzavier, he just posts a defense of himself and then throws a vote down at the end. It then looks like he goes back and looks at xzaviers posts to fill in the reasons for his vote. Retaliatory votes dont show alignment in my book though. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On June 29 2013 11:10 Aquanim wrote: I'll have to think about association with Onegu and that might take a while, but for now this is where I'm at: Spicy: didn't commit hard to either lynch today. Still got no reasons to think he's town. Nothing much has really changed about Spicy since my read at the end of Night 1. StiMaDDict: still hasn't done jack LoneMeow: hasn't done much of anything, and vote for Alakaslam now doesn't look real good. Still pretty sure everyone else (besides Onegu, obviously) is town but I suppose I'd better take another look at everyone to be sure. Just wanted to comment on this. I committed to lynching slam by my vote. I already posted why i thought slam would flip red more than onegu due to the number of events that needed to occur. | ||
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Quick FYI: i will be traveling for the next couple of days so i will be posting from my phone. | ||
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On June 30 2013 00:26 FirmTofu wrote: Spicy, I asked for something very specific. I wanted your case on ONE player. Please do this. Explain why that one player is scum. Convince me of it. You are already convinced im scum so theres no way im convincing u. My biggest scum read is on stim. Ilk post why in a separate post since Im posting from my phone. | ||
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d1 he picks aqua as a target and votes him at the very end not really affecting the vote. he blows up aquas position on nn policy and r a ils on him for the xzavier vote. What I see here is a scum on scum vote meqnt to be used later for cred in the event aqua dies. D2 stim disappears again till qn hour before the vote and claims ignorance of the situation. He fake buys his time asking questions and seeing the votes. Knowing that slam will be killed regardless of the vot3, he votes against it for town cred. Also he is actually active in the post lynch talk.... but why? Because scum only need 1 misslynch to win so hes trying hard now to get there. | ||
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Can someone point out why my stim aqua connection is off? Is it because they voted each other? | ||
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On June 30 2013 22:23 hzflank wrote: Day 1: Stim votes for Aqua, making it 4-4 (or possible 3 on Xz 4 on Aqua) at a time when it was very possible tat Aqua would be lynched. and isnt that when onegu moved his vote off unexpectedly so aqua was no longer in danger. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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Still posting from mobile fyi. my play all game has been townie. Early d1 tofu and I went at it for a few pages, greatly elevating my presence in the game. If I were scum id want to blend in a lot more. Same goes with my vote on hurricane and defense of xzavier. My logic on xzavier made sense. .. why would scum play like that. And added some meta thqt convinced me he was town. I also dont like how people are slamming my hurricane vote wfter the fact when he started to finally act townie. When the vote was on him he had nothinv but fluff and then a lurker vote. The onegu slam vote could have gone either way and I picked the one that had someone backing it up, the pick was wrong. As for lone, I talked about him during n1 where I said he flew under the radar. Couldnt pursue anything wbout him because d2 was all about slam and onegu. I have been a critic of onegu's vote switch and didnt feel he adequetly explained it. The fake claim threw me off because someone else backed it up. That's why I think its stim and aqua. Onegu and aqua were going at it and then aqua posts a big case on slam. Didnt make sense other than to defend a scum buddie. Stims late game postings means he can drop a vote and sheep a town explanation. I really dont like his level of activity. Couldlonre still be scum... possible. Just reading the connections between the suspects makes a stim aqua conn3ction more likely. Stim had a scum read on aqua after d1 and after aqua leads a lynch of a blue it drops down to a null. Just doesnt make sense. will be at family reunion all day but will try to post when I can | ||
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On June 30 2013 23:23 hzflank wrote: I'll be specific. What's your list? Why don't you think that it will line up with Hurricane's? Why do you not care about Stim's vote? I withheld my vote because seeing where Stim put his vote is an absolutely vital piece of information. A different list bc of stim. the stim vote made no difference in the lynch as it was already secured. So scum stim can easily position himself on the other side for town cred knowing the misslynch went through. If he voted for the lynch he could just cit3e aquas reasoning. Its the lateness of thr vote and him asking obvious questions thqt were answered already in the thread | ||
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On July 01 2013 19:37 hzflank wrote: @Spicy: If at all possible I need you to make a day 4 case against someone. Even if you can only post by phone, I do not need to see an elaborate case. If you had to place the first vote on day 4, who would you vote for and why? kinda late but figure its still relevant. Still would vote stim, he hasnt said anything since so nothing to really change my mind over. Though lone's case against hz is very weak, and i dont like how he hasn't named who he thinks the second scum is. On July 01 2013 21:41 hzflank wrote: What was your list? stim/aqua. i still cant understand stim having a null read on aqua after he leads a lynch against slam when he had a scum read the night before. No explanation. As for the tofu killing, i dont think it changes much at all. Everyone but me had him as townie and he was very vocal, thus making him a good target. He pegged me as scum and aqua town. So what i think you're getting at is why would a scum aqua kill him? I cant answer that as im not aqua and i can only speculate. Would be an easy way to throw more suspicion on me and use tofu's reads as a stronger guide which would lead to a mislynch. | ||
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On July 02 2013 12:34 Aquanim wrote: Spicy, your entire read on me (and for that matter StiM) appears to be based on relationships (and mostly speculative between the two of us rather than to the confirmed scum Onegu), rather than individual filters. I appreciate that there isn't a whole lot in StiM's filter to go off, but FirmTofu had a strong town read on me based on my play viewed individually. If you think I'm scum, what in FirmTofu's analysis (link) do you disagree with? Tofu's post honestly doesnt say much other than you stuck to your guns on an unpopular topics and that you "pressured a scum," though at the time no one knew onegu was scum. As for your relationship with onegu... Onegu votes you against the xzavier wagon. Obviously he knows xzavier is town so he puts a vote on you for later town cred. Your wagon starts building and Onegu panics and removes his vote and puts it on slam. We can see onegu panicing the next day when he fake claims early to avoid a lynch. Aqua then comes to his rescue posting a case to save onegu. Stim and Aqua I believe stim's play has been deliberate in that he was meant to be isolated and not have "relationships" with other players. Barely posting makes it harder to read and thus easier to hide. As stated before stim had a scum read on aqua d1 but that turned into a null read after d2 with aqua's vote on slam. Their other important interaction is on D1 with stim voting aqua. Stim threw his vote down very late d1 and it made the count 4-4 between xzavier and aqua. Obviously this was a risky play as only one more vote switch to aqua would seal his fate... so why did stim vote aqua? possible reason #1: stim voting xzavier is a lot more dangerous as xzavier would flip town and everyone on the wagon is suspicious. Most people were already suspicious of stim for his late voting and if he just hoped on the xzavier bandwagon it would throw huge red flags up for everyone. Similarly, stim voting for a candidate outside the wagon would get a lot of attention as did everyone else who voted outside the wagon. Aqua on the other hand was not going to get lynched and serves the duel purpose of voting for a fellow scum and not drawing as much attention to himself. It was riskier because the vote was so close at that point, but even if the votes held, xzavier would be lynched due to tie breaker rules. Furthermore stim doesnt push his vote, just posts his case and leaves it at that. Possible reason #2: stim thought that aqua was going to be lynched and intentionally bussed him. The vote was 3-4 and scum were panicing in qt about the momentum building on aqua and wanted to get in before the tide was overwhelming. Onegu couldnt switch his vote because it would look extremely scummy. This scenario is the far less likely as the focus was on xzavier mostly. | ||
Spicydinosaur
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On July 02 2013 22:03 hzflank wrote: This makes no sense. A scum Stim would not want to bus a scum Aqua on day 1. Stim does not post much and therefore is not a hugely influential player. Aqua was getting stuck in on day 1 and was already putting himself in a position to influence the game. The non-influential scum would not bus the influential scum like that. I do not understand why a town Spicy is focusing on Stim at this point, and not focusing on anyone else. Even if Stim is scum (and Spicy is town) then the town can only win by lynching him on day 5, because I will be around for the day 4 voting and I am highly unlikely to vote for Stim. The only possible day 4 lynch on Stim is a mis-lynch. You are probably wondering why I have been defending Stim so much. We had bad luck with the day 1 modkill and then had a night 1 cop kill. We mislynched our tracker on day 2. We found ourselves in a 4-3 LYLO with no useful power roles. I want to win the game and based on the reads I have I need Stim to be town in order to win the game. Therefore, I have been trying to cultivate a town-town relationship with Stim to increase our chances of winning the game. I have not been hiding this, my thoughts about Stim have been out in the open for a long time now. See my above. Also i am not just focusing on stim, i am focusing on stims/aqau/onegu's relationships. Ill be posting relationships between lone/stim/onegu in a little bit. | ||
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On July 02 2013 22:12 hzflank wrote: I will pre-empt whoever will show up to say that Stim and I could both be scum. If we were both scum then I would not need to defend Stim at all. I could make a case on either LoneMeow or Spicy and have a pretty good chance of getting Aqua to vote with me. Then Stim shows up with the usual late vote on my target and the scum team (Stim and I) win the game. It would be bad scum play for me to defend Stim if we were both scum. at this point in the game i wouldnt be suprised if there was a busing or cross claims of being scum. Only 1 mislynch is needed so there could be a busing d4 for town cred to get a mislynch the following day. | ||
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Lone and aqua: D1, lone throws his vote down for xzavier and would be open to voting stim, but NOT aqua. Then day 2 lone states that he cant ignore aqua's logic and votes for slam, basically sheeping aqua. Throughout their relationship, lone never though aqua as scum. Aqua states early on d1 that he doesnt want to lynch lone because lone says pregame that he is on vacation. This doesnt really tell us much as pregame is before alignment is sent out. Aqua later states that lone's 2 day 1 posts are more constructive than xzavier's entire filter. Aqua further says in his nighttime post that if he should die, lone should be given space to play and he liked his posts. Aqua later clarifies that his read on lone is null. During the d2 votes, aqua now starts to put lone in a possible scum team if onegu flips red. And now finally aqua wants to vote lone over stim because lone's play feels more careful. Just from reading the above i dont see a lone/aqua team. Aqua seems to give lone a lot of room to post and then when lone doesnt pick it up, aqau starts suspecting he's scum. Possible scum criticism in the thread but just doesnt feel it. A stim/lone team can easily be made since they are both lurkers and dont have really any interactions together. | ||
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On July 02 2013 23:06 hzflank wrote: This paragraph deserves to be quoted again. How can Lone's case on me possibly be a town move? Even if he actually thinks I am scum then he should of planned to lynch me on day 5. If I am scum, how does a town Lone expect to lynch me day 4? I do not think that a town Lone could possibly of made that move. Maybe I am tunnelling too much, but I know Hurricane (confirmed town) thinks that the scum team is Aqua/Lone. I am confident that Firm (confirmed town) thinks that Spicy/Lone is the scum team. I think that either Aqua/Lone or Spicy/Lone is the scum team, and I have made this clear enough recently (even before Lone's case). I am genuinely surprised that Spicy does not think that Aqua/Lone is the scum team. Its the voting on d2 that doesnt make me think aqua/lone team. Lone completely sheeps aqua on the slam vote and once slam flipped, both would look extremely bad. The more likely scenario is one of them was scum and other is town that just piggybacked. I really liked the aqua/stim team over the weekend, but lone's case makes 0 sense to me as it feels like he is just posted on a townie so he doesnt have to make a case on his scum buddy. Im still liking stim as a lynch because of his late d2 posts but lone is seriously making me wonder what he is doing. | ||
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On July 02 2013 23:27 hzflank wrote: Do you realize that to beat a Lone/Stim we have to lynch Stim on day 4? If we lynch Lone then day 5 is Aqua, Spicy and Stim. Do you think Stim will get lynched in that scenario? Just reading from thread sentiment that there seems to be enough people to vote lone right now so atm it doesnt. But we still have hours left in the night cycle and then a whole day so im not worried about "having the votes" right now. Theres plenty of time to actually talk about it before then. | ||
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On July 02 2013 23:41 hzflank wrote: I feel that it was genuine. I do not think Stim spends a lot of time reading the game. His MO seems to be to just pop in every 3 days, read for 30 minutes and make a vote. I think he was confused, and if he had access to scum QT he would not of been confused. Im saying the confusion was faked, and he knew what was going on, either through actually reading the thread or scum qt. He acted confused to look like hes active in the discussion and then parked his vote against the wagon. | ||
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On July 03 2013 00:06 hzflank wrote: My opinions may be coloured by... If Stim is scum then screw it. This forum mafia game is stupid if scum can so easily win just by lurking. However, if Aqua/Spicy is scum then they are legitimately beating me. lurkers are usually punished eventually in games with either votes/vig shots/ or they actually start posting more. It just so happens that in our game with the way things have been going that lurkers havent been the focus. | ||
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On July 03 2013 01:10 hzflank wrote: I have nothing more to say about Stim. I have tried to improve my read on him but I cannot at the moment, so still town. I feel like all of the Stim talk had just distracted me. Lone posted something meaty to dig into. Alternatively, I have been spamming up the thread if you want to go that route. Focusing on Stim is not going to achieve anything more. Lets talk lone then. In sum, his case against you just makes him look more scummy to me. I've had you pegged as townie since n1, which is one of the reasons you werent included in my night post about possible scum targets. According to him you and I are most likely scum buddies but he doesnt show our connection. Just feels like an extremely weak case to me. I was happy with my scum team of aqua/stim up until his case on you. Now im not as confident. If lone is scum then one of my reads is wrong. Id like lone to show what associations between you and i make us scum team. And also what connections u and stim (his second pick after me) have to be scum. | ||
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On July 03 2013 01:56 hzflank wrote: Exactly. He deliberately avoided implicating his partner. I am a bit biased here so, Can you see why a town Lone would of done what he did? Well he has a habit of dropping a case and then leaving. The only explanation i think is that he doesnt have an idea who the second scum partner could be and is waiting to see. Honestly its hard to gauge him because he has so little posts. I almost want a anti-read on why aqua, me, and stim ARENT his top read. | ||
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On July 03 2013 04:04 hzflank wrote: More from Onegu... Saying that Stim is the best lurker to vote for on day 1? Don't analyse Spicy's meta? Trying to move the conversation away from Spicy being scum? Just wanted to comment on these. Not sure why onegu tried to defend my meta when i was clearly referencing it and thus was ok with people looking at it, in fact encouraging. As for the second quote it looks like he was saying "if you think someone could be a blue, dont say so," not looking like hes moving the convo from me at all. | ||
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On July 03 2013 05:49 StiMaDDict wrote: LoneMeow and SpicyDinosaur. btw, if Lone flips town, I'm going to super fucking pissed. Please explain why your read on aqua changed from scum n1 to null n2. | ||
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On July 03 2013 10:40 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Spicy's night 2 - day 3 - night 3 posting has done nothing to change my opinion of him. You'll note that I went hard after Aqua during night 2, and not Spicy. (In fact, I even offered up some bogus logic that Spicy would magically be confirmed Town in my eyes if I survived the Night.) This was done as a tandem effort with FirmTofu. Tofu had established himself as the most likely candidate to put pressure on Spicy, and I would be the public face of pressure on Aqua. Whoever died, it gives the town information. I lived, which helps exonerate Aqua. This makes little sense and does no way help to exonerate aqua. Tofu could have been killed for the purpose of making me look worse, as it evidently worked on you. We don't know why scum killed tofu the other night other than speculation. If i were scum why would i kill off tofu when it would make me look so much worse. On July 03 2013 19:43 hzflank wrote: I cannot get into the head of a town-Spicy at all. I feel like I spent a long time screaming at Spicy to look at the Aqua-Lone scenario, but he refused to do so. He was focussed on the highly unlikely Aqua-Stim. Aqua did what you could call defending Lone in the early game. At the very least Aqua left connections between himself and Lone before Lone looked overly scummy. Spicy did not say a great deal about the non-scummy Lone, but once Lone was in a scum position Spicy refused to talk about the possibility of Lone being scum. If I were town in Spicy's position then I would have been attacking Aqua hard, and I would not brought Stim into it at all. I believe that Spicy was given every chance to solve the game in the case of an Aqua-Lone scum team, but he could not see it because Spicy is not looking at the game from a town point of view. From a scum point of view, Spicy did not see the need to bus Lone until it was too late. I realise that there are other possibilities such as Spicy-Aqua or the mysterious Stim. However, I really have spent far too much time on this game already. We cannot be 100% certain that I am correct, in fact we cannot even get close to certainty, but at some point we have to go for it and try to win. How did i refuse to look at an aqua-lone scenario? i looked it up, saw there was a little bit of connection in their interaction but still believed a stim-aqua team was more likely? Lone didnt move up on my scum radar till he posted the case on you which i immediately stated i didnt like. He never followed up on my questions so why would i change my thought just based off of a case he made on you? If i were scum i would have jumped on lone as everyone else did. But i didnt, i stuck to my read on aqua-stim where i have shown a strong connection. I also dont see how night kills exonerates aqua in any way what so ever. Killing tofu just put more pressure on me which is exactly what scum wanted. We have a whole day and everyone is just playing into aqua's hands. Please dont let the night kill order be so persuasive that it clouds aqua's scummy filter. As most others think stim is town im voting for my second scum pick of aqua. ##vote Aquanim | ||
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On July 04 2013 00:33 hzflank wrote: Spicy, I don't believe that I mentioned night-kills in my case. I never took them into consideration because it gets too WIFOM.. This is the problem. We were down to 5 players for the last 72 hours (Onegu and Hurricane did not count). Apart from yourself that is only 4 other players. If you were town then all 4 of them would have been on your scum radar. But you did not pro-actively scum hunt. You have played reactive to everything. Regardless of whether you are town or scum that statement should not be true. You should be voting for Aqua because that was your only realistic chance of winning the game. It does not matter whether he is your first, second or seventy-seventh scum pick. You didnt mention nks, hurricane did. How can you say i didnt hunt when i went through stim and aqua's filters to show their connection and continued to press on that. It almost seemed like you were the one fixated on lone and just shrugged off my connection as unlikely. I followed up with a post on a lone-aqua connection explaining why i didnt think it was likely and the stim-aqua was more likely. I didnt post a case on on you because i believed you were town. How is that not scum hunting compared to stim or lone? As for my "reactive posts"... ive been on the defensive ALL GAME from my initial posts. I make a ball busting joke back to chrom, its taken out of context and people claim im over defensive, then i defend xzavier because scum wouldnt act like that, he flips town and im the scummy one, i post a legitimate case on hurricane but im scum because AFTERWARDS he improves his game. ect ect ect. Aqua gets the mvp at this point for his scum play. I dont know how else to convince people to look at aqua. | ||
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Remember contrary to what BH says...scum slips DO exist! On June 24 2013 12:52 Onegu wrote: You have to remember scum have a tracker also so if they track the NN to someone they get a stronger read he is blue than just NN, if it is revealed then scum tracker doesnt have to worry about that possibility and just blue hunt. . | ||
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On July 06 2013 05:37 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Wow, that mafia coach in the QT was practically orchestrating this entire game for them. WAY more active than I thought a coach would be in these games. Onegu would have died Day 2 if the coach hadn't explicitly given him the only excuse for a Watcher to target a scum-read (post #184 in mafia chat) that I requested from Onegu. Disagree on orchestrating the entire game. Ace was great when we hit a wall and were all "i dont know what to do here" and gave us good advice and help. | ||
Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On July 06 2013 05:57 LoneMeow wrote: My 3 major lessons from this game were: 1) I utterly suck as scum, far more than I do as town 2) Don't bother playing if you can't play full on from the start, playing from behind the whole game is not fun 3) Playing scum is not as much fun, and generates a whole lot of stress Probably the only thing I managed to get right was latching on to Xzavier on day 1. After that it was just downhill all the way. Going to take at least one game break for now I think - this game quite literally made me lose sleep and appetite from the stress, so I think I need some time to recover. Thanks to all the hosts and players and sorry to my teammates whom I let down. Im with you on the stress. So much easier playing town and scum hunting. I'm sure itll get easier with future games but damn. You didnt let us down lone, all 3 of us made mistakes at some point. I was just glad we didnt get lynched 1,2,3 from the start. | ||
Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
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Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On July 06 2013 06:30 Hurricane Sponge wrote: Spicy, you played really well. If you hadn't made a case to get me mislynched early, I doubt you would have been on my radar at all until Day 3. I was actually going to throw my vote on fyfy but as i was writing it, he got modkilled. I was actually about to post it too but wanted to check the thread again for some info and saw the post. So i quickly went through other filters and picked yours. | ||
Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On July 06 2013 06:32 StiMaDDict wrote: uhh, this is bit awkward. Since now everyone think I'm a hardcore lurker, regardless of my ailment in future games, even if I'm active in forum, I'll be suspicious? Dang.. I wouldnt think so. If you are active and scum hunting (or good at faking it) then you'll look town. What would someone say.... that your meta is you're a lurker in 2 newbie games... not a lynchable argument. I wouldnt worry too much unless you think you wont be active because of RL. Then just tell everyone pre-game before alignment goes out so it wont be an issue. | ||
Spicydinosaur
United States382 Posts
On July 06 2013 17:12 Aquanim wrote: I've never actually rolled scum so I'm not sure how useful my comments will be, but there are one or two things I've thought of. I think you played a pretty good scum game - you were the only one of the scum team with a significant amount of thread presence and sway over the town after day one. There was never any one thing in your filter I could point to and say "scum did that". I think what you might need to keep in mind is your overall attitude to the game - your reads generally made sense, you didn't out yourself through those, but you never tried to make anything much happen in the thread. You don't have to make any huge gambits like hzflank's Veteran fakeclaim but you do need to look like you're having an impact and trying to push a (town) agenda. If you look at the filter of Hurricane, hzflank, FirmTofu, Chromatically or myself I think there will be a lot more proactive behaviour than in yours. Obviously there's a limit to what you want to do as scum, but you would like to look at least similar to a townie. EDIT: I don't necessarily mean pushing for a lynch by "proactive behaviour", though obviously that is a good example. Actively trying to generate useful information, and synthesising it into a relevant conclusion, is another example. Good advice on the proactiveness. That seemed to get me in the end and separate me from everyone else. I guess next time im scum to have a better plan in place and not be afraid to make more waves. thanks | ||
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