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So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team.
If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.
If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.
Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.
The ball is in your court.
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On June 26 2013 14:28 FirmTofu wrote:
So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team.
If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.
If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.
Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.
The ball is in your court.
On that note, I believe it would be wise for the parity cop to check Onegu with someone else so that we can get some hard evidence to work with that confirms my theory. Use your best judgement to choose someone pro-town to use as the other pairing.
All of this is, of course, assuming that a parity cop exists.
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Alakaslam, I don't know why Onegu helped you. Is it even relevant? It was before anything that was relevant to my case even occurred. It seems like you are just bringing that up as an excuse to avoid having to vote for Onegu.
On June 26 2013 15:45 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 14:28 FirmTofu wrote:
So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team.
If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.
If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.
Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.
The ball is in your court. You feel you need to bully the most inexperianced mafia player to vote for me? You have no case except a bogus scum tell so you have to bully someone to vote with you?
Bullying? I don't see how this is bullying at all. I'm giving him a choice that he can choose to accept or not and I letting him know the consequences of his decision.
At this point, Alakslam is looking for reasons to cast doubt on my case, which is just more fodder for the case against him. He will go down with the ship unless mafia cuts their losses and votes for you, Onegu.
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On June 26 2013 16:11 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
(Quick note, Spicy definitely defended fyfy from Tofu for WAY longer than any sane person would have, much less a mafia. Based on that encounter, Spicy is supertown. I didn't manage to quote the entire exchange in the broken case post, but if you don't believe me, it's pretty easy to find. Just control-F 'Hitler' and work your way backwards.)
I beg to differ. Spicy was defending against my accusation that fyfy and Spicy were both mafia. Thus, "defending" fyfy was just an issue of self-preservation. If people think fyfy is town, people think he is town, therefore his obvious self-preservationist instinct would lead him to defend fyfy.
This is neither a scum-tell nor a town-tell.
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On June 26 2013 16:23 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 16:08 FirmTofu wrote:Alakaslam, I don't know why Onegu helped you. Is it even relevant? It was before anything that was relevant to my case even occurred. It seems like you are just bringing that up as an excuse to avoid having to vote for Onegu. On June 26 2013 15:45 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 14:28 FirmTofu wrote:
So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team.
If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.
If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.
Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.
The ball is in your court. You feel you need to bully the most inexperianced mafia player to vote for me? You have no case except a bogus scum tell so you have to bully someone to vote with you? Bullying? I don't see how this is bullying at all. I'm giving him a choice that he can choose to accept or not and I letting him know the consequences of his decision. At this point, Alakslam is looking for reasons to cast doubt on my case, which is just more fodder for the case against him. He will go down with the ship unless mafia cuts their losses and votes for you, Onegu. Because when he helped me he helped town. Let me tack on to that question: why do you scum read me if not for Onegu's "rust bucket" case on me? Gogogo! I knew it was strong! I agree you aren't bullying but nonetheless- explain why scum Onegu said "don't distract the thread" and "stop putting hypocritical posts and fluff". I'm not against voting Onegu except that I just can't see mafia doing that so early! They want townies to play bad! Otherwise, yeah I have a null read on him. But the stuff that is town is great town IMO! Also, read Hurricane's findings. Not that Onegu couldn't still be scum but if he is Kudos, he is a prophetic mastermind. The again, I hear ace is very dangerous. Basically Tofu, make your case a little stronger and I take notice, otherwise go tunnel me! MI NE FREGGO!
Okay.
Onegu is using an easy tactic I like to call, "Say FirmTofu is distracting the thread and posting hypocritical posts and hopefully no one will lynch me" Notice how he isn't actually making a case against me even though he's saying I'm doing scummy things.
This is because he knows I am town, he knows he is scum, and he knows town will never bandwagon me. His best bet to stay alive is to discredit me and hope no one listens to me.
Also, Onegu isn't being pro-town by calling me scummy. He's being anti-town. Almost all of town agrees that I have been one of the most pro-town players this entire game.
Of course, all of what I just wrote is probably useless because if you are scum, as I suspect you are, you won't listen to anything I say. I hope you prove me wrong.
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On June 26 2013 16:34 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 16:29 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 16:23 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 16:08 FirmTofu wrote:Alakaslam, I don't know why Onegu helped you. Is it even relevant? It was before anything that was relevant to my case even occurred. It seems like you are just bringing that up as an excuse to avoid having to vote for Onegu. On June 26 2013 15:45 Onegu wrote:On June 26 2013 14:28 FirmTofu wrote:
So Alakaslam, if you want to clear yourself in my eyes, you are going to have to vote Onegu. That is the only way I can know for sure that you guys aren't on the same team.
If he flips town(which is extremely unlikely), you are cleared of all blame.
If he flips scum, you will be scrutinized, but I will take some time to reconsider because you did vote for him.
Voting for Onegu is a win-win situation for you if you are town. The only reason you wouldn't vote him would be if you are scum.
The ball is in your court. You feel you need to bully the most inexperianced mafia player to vote for me? You have no case except a bogus scum tell so you have to bully someone to vote with you? Bullying? I don't see how this is bullying at all. I'm giving him a choice that he can choose to accept or not and I letting him know the consequences of his decision. At this point, Alakslam is looking for reasons to cast doubt on my case, which is just more fodder for the case against him. He will go down with the ship unless mafia cuts their losses and votes for you, Onegu. Because when he helped me he helped town. Let me tack on to that question: why do you scum read me if not for Onegu's "rust bucket" case on me? Gogogo! I knew it was strong! I agree you aren't bullying but nonetheless- explain why scum Onegu said "don't distract the thread" and "stop putting hypocritical posts and fluff". I'm not against voting Onegu except that I just can't see mafia doing that so early! They want townies to play bad! Otherwise, yeah I have a null read on him. But the stuff that is town is great town IMO! Also, read Hurricane's findings. Not that Onegu couldn't still be scum but if he is Kudos, he is a prophetic mastermind. The again, I hear ace is very dangerous. Basically Tofu, make your case a little stronger and I take notice, otherwise go tunnel me! MI NE FREGGO! Okay. Onegu is using an easy tactic I like to call, "Say FirmTofu is distracting the thread and posting hypocritical posts and hopefully no one will lynch me" Notice how he isn't actually making a case against me even though he's saying I'm doing scummy things. This is because he knows I am town, he knows he is scum, and he knows town will never bandwagon me. His best bet to stay alive is to discredit me and hope no one listens to me. Also, Onegu isn't being pro-town by calling me scummy. He's being anti-town. Almost all of town agrees that I have been one of the most pro-town players this entire game. Of course, all of what I just wrote is probably useless because if you are scum, as I suspect you are, you won't listen to anything I say. I hope you prove me wrong. You quoted me actually. Who called you scummy in here? Clarify? And I did not, I mean nobody did. Why are you defending against nothing?
You said make my case for Onegu stronger and I did. Read the quotes in order again. I'm not defending, I'm explaining what Onegu did and why he is scum.
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On June 26 2013 16:36 Alakaslam wrote:
EBW+P oh. No dude he was calling me out on actually doing those things bro. That's what I'm saying, by shitting on me he was helping town. I was so dumb (still am) that I was making things worse the harder I tried to help.
First you say he was helping you and now you say he's shitting on you and that helped town. I'm really confused as to what you're getting at so do me a favor and quote what post you are referring to so I can provide you an adequate response.
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On June 26 2013 16:43 Alakaslam wrote:
We both need to clarify. I am asking you to specifically state a reason why Onegu corrected my scumminess, until he decided I must be scum as I wasn't improving. Then I added, please make the case against me independent of what Onegu said. Do you think he was bussing earlier? He made his case for me before too but felt aqua was a better target.
But it is really this simple: if scum would tell a townie who was aiding his cause through spam to stop, explain how this is so And why. Do that, and you basically have my vote.
However, when we get paranoid we look scummy. I know by experience. Calm down.
Okay, I think I'm beginning to see what you're saying. Let me explain what happened.
Onegu "corrected" your "scumminess" because it's an easy way for him to appear as though he's pro-town.
He takes the newb player(forgive me for calling you this) and tells you that you are doing something wrong to get free town points.
It worked actually. I didn't really suspect Onegu as mafia until much later into the day.
The next event, when he accuses you of being scum, is a completely independent event. He used you to make himself appear as town because he knew Xzavier would flip town.
Before Xzavier's inevitable lynch, he didn't want to look like he supported that lynch because, naturally, people who lynch innocent people are usually scum, right?
So he realized he could vote someone else to make himself look super pro-town. After all, he didn't push for the Xzavier lynch so he's not gonna be targeted on day 2!
Fortunately, Chromatically and I didn't fall for his shenanigans. I'm hoping you don't either.
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On June 26 2013 16:49 Alakaslam wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 16:40 Aquanim wrote:On June 26 2013 16:30 Alakaslam wrote:On June 26 2013 16:25 Aquanim wrote:On June 26 2013 16:11 Hurricane Sponge wrote:
(Quick note, Spicy definitely defended fyfy from Tofu for WAY longer than any sane person would have, much less a mafia. Based on that encounter, Spicy is supertown. I didn't manage to quote the entire exchange in the broken case post, but if you don't believe me, it's pretty easy to find. Just control-F 'Hitler' and work your way backwards.) Could you explain to me how defending a townie is a "supertown" move? I see it as a pretty good way for a scum to be seen sincerely arguing something (because they know they're right about a townread), while not actually contributing to finding scum. A quick glance over Spicy's posts indicates to me that all he's saying is "fyfy isn't the scummiest person in the thread" which is a long way from a committment to fyfy being town (which could be inconvenient for scum later). Townies can defend other townies, but scum can do it too IMO. Yeah, that was an ASSUMPTION alright. But what of this: as you are active, whose filter do you read at this time aqua? I'm not reading filters at the moment, I'm living the rest of my life and occasionally checking the thread to see if anything interesting pops up. Fair enough, I really should be sleeping right now for work tomorrow. Cy'all!
Going to bed as well.
As an aside, I would like to say that this game is shaping up to be one of my favorites on this site so far. I'm really enjoying the heated debates and I hope no one finds me annoying or miserable. It's not my real personality, I'm actually a pretty nice guy. I just get all passionate sometimes and my brain feels like insulting everyone. Let me know if I'm being condescending because sometimes I can't distinguish it from whatever isn't condescending.
Thanks for making a great game guys(Remember: I don't actually hate you even if I sound like I do)
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On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation?
Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him.
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I've got to quote everything and respond to accusations so give me some time.
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On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell.
Lying is definitely not a scum tell. Read the mafia guide by Ver.
On August 26 2010 13:08 Ver wrote:
Also, this is a good point to address the misconception that 'lying=mafia,' which is clearly not the case. I lie all the time as town, and much more rarely as mafia. Some may condemn this as inferior play, but lying, among other 'anti-town plays,' lets you open new routes of play that are ordinarily inaccessible if you behave as a 'perfect townie.' Most of the time you have to take a risk if you want to win. Of course the execution is everything, as lying for no gain is just going to make it harder for the town to do anything. And of course, many town players will lie on accident, without reason, or for some bizarre reason or another that you have no way of knowing. A point that will be emphasized continuously is the necessity to differentiate between mafia and bad townie play. You can't just lynch people and when they pop green excuse yourself by saying 'oh they were anti-town anyways.' The goal is to kill mafia, period.
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On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon?
He meant to say Aqua, not Xzavier. I already explained why I'm "wasting" time with people that weren't on the wagon.
People on the wagon are more likely to be town than people not on the wagon.
Remember that scum KNEW that Xzavier would not flip mafia. Why in the world would they get on a wagon that they knew would not flip mafia?
Logic dictates that their best course of action would be to say they think Xzavier is town, but NOT ACTUALLY TRY TO PREVENT THE LYNCH.
Who are the people who did that?
Onegu
SpicyDinosaur
Alakaslam
You
This is why this group of people is high on my scum list.
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On June 27 2013 03:15 hzflank wrote:If you think I was not trying to prevent the lynch then you have not read the thread. I tried, and you stopped me. Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 08:26 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote:
I will try another angle:
LoneMeow was the first to vote on Xzavier. I think that LoneMeow is town. He has never looked scummy to me and he thought that Xzavier was scum for the start. It makes sense that LoneMeow would be the first to vote on Xzavier.
Next to add their vote was Chromatically. Despite my earlier attack, Chrom has been looking more and more town to me. The only reason that I can see a scum Chrom voting Xzavier when he did is if Aqua is also scum, and everyone thought that idea was ridiculous. Therefore, I expect most of you see Chrom as town and the first two people on the wagon as town.
Aqua was the third to vote. Most of you think Aqua is town. That means most of you must think that the first 3 people on the wagon are town.
Is that not odd to anyone? If three townies jump on a scum wagon then there should of been a counter play by the scum team by now. And yet I started the Aqua wagon and I am posting this. It does not make sense. There was a counter play! The scum saw that you had already started a vote on Aqua and used that as an opportunity to draw attention away from Xzavier. While I strongly believe you are town because you were the one to start the lynch with some pretty good analysis, I do not believe that the other people pursuing the Aqua wagon are free from blame. The fact that they jumped on Aqua right after Xzavier's bandwagon was gaining momentum is indicative of this fact.
Yes, you did try. I wasn't being fair when I added you to the list. I don't think you are scum, but you supporting Onegu's weak case against me was making me reconsider.
Anyway, you haven't addressed the core reasoning, so I take it that you agree?
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On June 27 2013 03:16 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:10 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 03:03 hzflank wrote:On June 27 2013 03:00 Hurricane Sponge wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. This can be explained as a difference of playstyle. You have been recently accused of not doing everything in your power to save Xzavier from lynch when you thought he was town. Tofu is demonstrating what he's willing to do to save someone he thinks is Town from a lynch. Tofu was one of the people on the wagon. Go back and read how the votes went down. Look at exactly who voted when and the reasons given. If Tofu is town then at least one other person on that wagon is scum. Why is Tofu wasting so much time on people who were not on the wagon? He meant to say Aqua, not Xzavier. I already explained why I'm "wasting" time with people that weren't on the wagon. People on the wagon are more likely to be town than people not on the wagon. Remember that scum KNEW that Xzavier would not flip mafia. Why in the world would they get on a wagon that they knew would not flip mafia? Logic dictates that their best course of action would be to say they think Xzavier is town, but NOT ACTUALLY TRY TO PREVENT THE LYNCH. Who are the people who did that? Onegu SpicyDinosaur Alakaslam You This is why this group of people is high on my scum list. No, I meant what I said. I was addressing Spicy. Spicy is under suspicion because apparently he didn't defend Xzavier hard enough when he was a town read and one of the leading wagons: From Chromatically: "What I don't like (and this is a general statement about Spicy, Stim, and Onegu) is that when your vote is not on a leading wagon, you should be doing your ABSOLUTE BEST to push your read. This is especially true if you have a town read on the leader. A townie would do everything that they can to prevent a mislynch. Spicy defends Xzav a little, but then drops it" Tofu defended Aqua using every weapon available because he thought Aqua was town.
Ah yes, I read it wrong. I'm not sure what hzflank was getting at, that was truly quite odd.
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hzflank, you keep repeating that someone on the wagon must be scum. Why do you believe that is the case? Does it necessarily have to be true, or do you think you are assuming it should be true because Xzavier flipped town?
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On June 27 2013 03:25 Hurricane Sponge wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:24 FirmTofu wrote:
hzflank, you keep repeating that someone on the wagon must be scum. Why do you believe that is the case? Does it necessarily have to be true, or do you think you are assuming it should be true because Xzavier flipped town? Because if everyone on the Xzavier wagon was town, then the mafia team is Onegu, Spicy and Stim.
Well, I don't think he was referring to the last few tag along votes. I think he means one of the first few votes must be scum.
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On June 27 2013 03:29 Onegu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:18 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 03:15 hzflank wrote:If you think I was not trying to prevent the lynch then you have not read the thread. I tried, and you stopped me. On June 26 2013 08:26 FirmTofu wrote:On June 26 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote:
I will try another angle:
LoneMeow was the first to vote on Xzavier. I think that LoneMeow is town. He has never looked scummy to me and he thought that Xzavier was scum for the start. It makes sense that LoneMeow would be the first to vote on Xzavier.
Next to add their vote was Chromatically. Despite my earlier attack, Chrom has been looking more and more town to me. The only reason that I can see a scum Chrom voting Xzavier when he did is if Aqua is also scum, and everyone thought that idea was ridiculous. Therefore, I expect most of you see Chrom as town and the first two people on the wagon as town.
Aqua was the third to vote. Most of you think Aqua is town. That means most of you must think that the first 3 people on the wagon are town.
Is that not odd to anyone? If three townies jump on a scum wagon then there should of been a counter play by the scum team by now. And yet I started the Aqua wagon and I am posting this. It does not make sense. There was a counter play! The scum saw that you had already started a vote on Aqua and used that as an opportunity to draw attention away from Xzavier. While I strongly believe you are town because you were the one to start the lynch with some pretty good analysis, I do not believe that the other people pursuing the Aqua wagon are free from blame. The fact that they jumped on Aqua right after Xzavier's bandwagon was gaining momentum is indicative of this fact. Yes, you did try. I wasn't being fair when I added you to the list. I don't think you are scum, but you supporting Onegu's weak case against me was making me reconsider. Anyway, you haven't addressed the core reasoning, so I take it that you agree? My claim against you isnt weak and you havent addressed any of my points. In addition to that you lied in this game and did not come forward with your plan until you were called out on it. Your lieing not only decieved someone you didnt tell them what happend after you got what you wanted until someone caught you in a lie. you are useing very scummy tactics in lieing and bullying and think that is a perfectly normal town thing to do, it isnt it is a scum tactic.
I'm making a huge post, but I keep checking the thread to address any new developments. I will post my reaction to your accusations against me as soon as I am finished.
You say my lying deceived someone, but I fail to see how this hurt town. All my lying did was keep Aqua from dying. If the person I deceived is clearly okay with the fact that I deceived him, I don't see how this is even an issue. You keep saying I am doing scummy things, but are not providing any evidence to support your claims.
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On June 27 2013 03:40 Spicydinosaur wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 02:54 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 02:36 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 02:14 FirmTofu wrote:On June 27 2013 01:47 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 01:31 Spicydinosaur wrote:On June 27 2013 01:23 Chromatically wrote:
Spicy, I think that Tofu's actions around the lynch were fine.
He thought that you were scummier, but after pushing you he saw that no one else was willing to vote you.
Instead of wasting his vote on someone who wouldn't be lynched (you), he moves to his second-best scumread (Xzav). please look at what i wrote again. It is clear he said his second best read was stim On June 26 2013 01:03 FirmTofu wrote:
I've skimmed through the thread to get a handle on where people are leaning.
Scenario 1: Xzavier is town
Mafia should be distancing themselves from the lynch and somewhat defending him.
Scenario 2: Xzavier is mafia
Mafia should be vehemently arguing in his defense while also trying to distance themselves from him. It's a balancing act that is hard to do.
Keep an eye out for people who fall into the latter category for now.
On another note, I agree with Hurricane that StiM is the best lynch for today. However, letting Aqua die is simply not an option. We only lynch StiM if we know we can get enough votes. He then does nothing with trying to get stim lynched and just sheeps onto xzavier. Oh yeah, that's a good point that I missed. Just a few posts later he says: + Show Spoiler +On June 26 2013 02:01 FirmTofu wrote:
Even now, it is still possible that Xzavier lives because we only have 5 votes. We should try convincing hzflank or Alakaslam to switch their votes.
As I suspect the Mafia team is as follows...
Xzavier
SpicyDinosaur
Onegu
They are trying not to make it obvious that they want to keep Xzavier alive. You can see how they are frantically looking for other scapegoats to shift attention off of Xzavier, but don't have much of a case.
Furthermore, my preliminary assessment of Alakaslam speaks to an SK mindset. I will go into further detail when it becomes applicable on Day 2. Stim isn't even in his proposed scumteam. Tofu, can you clarify this situation? Ah, of course. What happened was that I wanted Hurricane to switch his vote from StiM to Xzavier so that Aqua(who i had a stong town read on) wouldn't die. I was also very wary of StiM regardless because he was lurking hardcore. To win Hurricane over to our side, I got on his level. Obviously, I wasn't bein completely honest when I said StiM was the best lynch, but I knew that Aqua couldn't be allowed to die and this was my tactic to save him. So you admit you are a liar. Scummy as hell. Lying is definitely not a scum tell. Read the mafia guide by Ver. On August 26 2010 13:08 Ver wrote:
Also, this is a good point to address the misconception that 'lying=mafia,' which is clearly not the case. I lie all the time as town, and much more rarely as mafia. Some may condemn this as inferior play, but lying, among other 'anti-town plays,' lets you open new routes of play that are ordinarily inaccessible if you behave as a 'perfect townie.' Most of the time you have to take a risk if you want to win. Of course the execution is everything, as lying for no gain is just going to make it harder for the town to do anything. And of course, many town players will lie on accident, without reason, or for some bizarre reason or another that you have no way of knowing. A point that will be emphasized continuously is the necessity to differentiate between mafia and bad townie play. You can't just lynch people and when they pop green excuse yourself by saying 'oh they were anti-town anyways.' The goal is to kill mafia, period.
Its a scum tell in this situation. Why would you need to lie in order to secure their votes? there were already cases against xzavier that you decided not to push. Instead u had to make up lies to get people over. Why was is it so important to lie to lynch Xzavier if his lynch was such a sure thing? You pushed hard for his lynch in a very deceitful way. Also given the fact that you are refusing to look at people who actually voted to to kill xzavier means u dont want people to look at you. You talk so much now how it was obvious that xzavier was going to be lynched, yet there was a time the vote was 3-3, and then later 4-4. Not at all clear cut. But you keep deflecting away from yourself at every possible turn. You have yet to comment on how bad your logic was with xzavier and I being scum buddies and your overall play during the lynching period.
I just explained why I lied. I lied to SAVE Aqua. I didn't really push the lynch, remember I stated it was sub-optimal? My main intent was to keep Aqua alive, not to push for Xzavier's lynch.
I'm not refusing to look at people who voted Xzavier. I've looked at them, and I have strong town reads on all of them. I've already explained all of this.
My logic wasn't bad when I said you and Xzavier were scumbuddies. Xzavier and you were both playing scummy, so I naturally read you both as such. Of course, Xzavier flipped town. That doesn't change the fact that he appeared scummy and my reasoning was sound.
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On June 27 2013 03:50 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 03:43 Chromatically wrote:On June 27 2013 03:40 hzflank wrote:
My problem is that Chromatically, Tofu and Hurricane have not pressured each other since the flip. The flip made you all look guilty for different reasons. I expected you to defend yourselves by investigating each other. You are better placed to investigate each other than I am, because you know if you are town.
The best way for the town to get a correct read on which of you is scum (if any) is if you look for guilt in each other. Why don't you explain how the flip made each of us look bad? Why don't you do some scum hunting?
He is scumhunting. He thinks Onegu is scum, so he's pursuing that read. You on the other hand, are just asking others to do your scumhunting for you.
Please, tell me why any of us(Hurricane, Chroma, Aqua, LoneMeow, and me) have to be scum. I promise I will consider it and I might even change my reads.
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EPT
