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Maybe it's because you replaced in Adam, but did you forget how close the DP lynch was?
Here's how it plays out in my mind.
Game is not over. There is an anti-town element in play, most likely 1 scum member.
So someone has to be scum. Here's what I have to swallow to admit that person is scum.
Coag: Voted DP, and shot rayn.
OO: Was main pusher for the DP lynch, was main choice of target by DP.
Cora: Is a scum doublevoter who rb'ed himself with a co-host confirmation
Oats: Is not considering any of the things I am at this point of the game. Also very natural / whatever.
Adam: Sounds reasonable and has overcome scared play.
GK: pulled the biggest jerk move ever and emotions etc.
Logically speaking, that you would disregard how D1 went is a big outrage. You are saying that whoever it is, chose to vote godfather experienced scum DP when marv and Hapa gave many many outs to voting GK instead.
Emotionally speaking, that GK would do what he did as scum is a big outrage. It's unsportsmanlike (in my eyes) to the highest degree. I thought about this more, (heck I looked up all his other games for meta help, but I guess that falls under SFA)
On June 16 2013 11:02 goodkarma wrote:
Well, anywho, I figured I'd outline some of my thoughts on this game.
"Replacement" Shenannies
I definitely did make a point of "milking" my status as replacement. I bet that Marv comes in here and says that's unsportsmanlike, but it was definitely the right move as far as I was concerned. I replaced in at night, and immediately I had identified Hapa as the only real threat to getting me lynched early. BH I felt would be sore from misreading me last game. And everyone else I felt wouldn't be taking the lead in determining who should be lynched, especially with Axle and Shao looking so "townie." As such, I knew that when Hapa had been removed I'd be in a spot of relative safety.
Is it easier to accept a logical outrage rather than an emotional one? For me, yes.
....
Pshh
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Dude, morale is a huge part of the game. Maybe it's your personality, maybe it's because you replaced in, maybe it's because you are on the chopping block, and maybe it's the vice versa for the rest of the crew, but being lazy doesn't necessitate scum.
And lynching based off activity levels is foolish. And lynching based of arbitrary levels of effort is also foolish.
Since when does something like motivation trump reason? I bet you, if you asked all the players after D2 that if you could choose to win or lose the game by simultaneously lynching into Hapa / Adam / Oats / GK, every single person would have taken that deal. And I bet if you ask each person that same question now, they would still take it.
What's more to give? What's more to do? It's all said and done. If you want to off GK first, honestly, I'm not that adverse to it.
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Yea, I'm not arguing that your situation sucks. Don't get me wrong.
It's just that there has been, in my recollection, no honest, logical thought out process detailing why it might be the case. The bastion of logic holds strong, and nothing apart from conspiracy theories have been aimed at it.
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Like, "could Coag be SK?" was a question I've personally considered (and shut down), but never brought up in thread.
"Could there be scum doublevoter given 2 3rd party elements" was a question I've personally considered (and shut down) but was never brought up in thread.
There's honest ways of opening up such avenues of discussion. All I've seen are "player X hasn't posted in such and such a time".
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Am I not open to discussion? Am I not still putting in effort? Am I not here still willing to read and post?
Do you really think I'm so lazy, so apathetic that I'm on autopilot? That these voteshifts of mine are just jokes to give whomever false hope?
Engage me. Give me something to work with. I know it exists because I've played with it myself in my head, I just haven't heard it from anyone else here (or I missed it, or it's from Oats whom I have natural distrust with).
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OO was one of DP's main lynches of choice D1. Both DP and rayn were willing to park their votes there (and they eventually did). OO was also the main pusher of the DP wagon. Refer to p 38.
p 39~40 show rayn trying to push yamato or OO.
yamato helped out with the lynch (3rd party, no reason why he wouldn't be playing roughly town)
Hapa comes in pg 42 and opposes DP lynch. Hapa is a vocal town player with strong thread presence.
marv comes in a bit later, stuff happens. Discussion moves away from DP.
OO comes back in pg 47 and pushes DP more. Ange and I hop in around here.
pg 48 marv votes GK. Hapa joins next page. They push for GK. They (marv mostly) push for it.
OO at this point has a reasonable out:
On June 23 2013 07:52 ObviousOne wrote:
We can be reasonably sure that DP won't fuck off if he doesn't die today. Can we say the same about GK?
And yet he keeps his vote on. Kills DP over GK, which we discussed isn't something we can see scum doing. The only place that it becomes even remotely feasible is if GK was also scum. So the order should be GK first, then OO if GK flips scum and game isn't over.
I don't think there are 4 scum.
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Extrapolation of this is why I would, as an observer, consider OO, me and Ange very town. Coag has admitted himself he would pull this stuff as either alignment for jokes. He is absolved by his vig shot on rayn.
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Sure. If you are willing to put in this much effort, don't see why not. But I'm hard pressed in how to convince others to do the same, given how unsure of it all I am.
##Unvote: Oatsmaster
##Vote: goodkarma
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Yea at this point we have to pull Coag over since plurality.
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The easy way to do it is argue that GK is more likely scum than we thought due to his attitude shift.
But I don't know if cora wants to listen to me (or anyone) anymore due to the shiaopi switch last cycle.
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On June 28 2013 15:34 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 10:10 HiroPro wrote:
In regards to the role PMs posted after flips:
The non-mafia that have flipped have had their complete role PMs posted. The mafia that have flipped have information removed from their PM that has nothing to do with their individual role.
Sloosh, this is why I want more out of everybody, even the so-called confirmed. Something was told to the mafia that the rest of us aren't getting told. If there was some kind of traitor that joined the scum team on D2, then a single vote on DP counts for nothing. We're in a closed setup, anything is possible.
Sure, but not everything is reasonable.
My guess is that mafia might have maybe a bit more information about the setup (e.g. Carnival gave scum knowledge of existence of cop & vig). Or something about KP formula.
Traitor is town aligned until recruited. For balance reasons I don't buy a traitor, since it means 2 man scum team, which is horribly unfavored for scum. Also, it means rayn successfully recruited someone out of 12 players N1, since I don't think traitor would have guessed rayn. Also it means that either scum have a factional RB or traitor had RB.
We can discuss this more at night if the game hasn't ended.
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Hokay. Oats & Adam? What next?
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Adam you are more certain that OO pushed the main wagon on DP D1, and DP tried to lynch OO D1 than your townread on Oats, am I reading that right?
Because that's nonsense and I haven't seen you actually address it head on.
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In anycase I think we should be lynching Oats tomorrow.
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Actually I haven't fully considered the Adam scum Oats town scenario.
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On June 29 2013 12:00 Adam4167 wrote:
Your reads have to be fluid and change in light of what is going on!
Deciding reads on D1 and then lynching into them regardless of any new developments in the thread is just stubborn and shortsighted. It relies entirely on your early game being so exceptional that you can bust the entire scum team from a single flip. I can count the number of times I've seen that happen on one hand and I've been here a damn long time! We've done this exact dance before in Duel, except this time its Oats instead of Sylencia.
Like this is very hypocritical.
What is the most recent thing to happen in thread? GK flipped town. Ok, so we know that the very close D1 DP-GK lynch was between scum and town. Who is the first person that Adam goes after? OO, who was one of the main components of DP.
Oats I need your reviewed read of Adam, or whoever you want to lynch tomorrow.
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On June 30 2013 00:28 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2013 23:35 slOosh wrote:On June 29 2013 12:00 Adam4167 wrote:
Your reads have to be fluid and change in light of what is going on!
Deciding reads on D1 and then lynching into them regardless of any new developments in the thread is just stubborn and shortsighted. It relies entirely on your early game being so exceptional that you can bust the entire scum team from a single flip. I can count the number of times I've seen that happen on one hand and I've been here a damn long time! We've done this exact dance before in Duel, except this time its Oats instead of Sylencia.
Like this is very hypocritical. What is the most recent thing to happen in thread? GK flipped town. Ok, so we know that the very close D1 DP-GK lynch was between scum and town. Who is the first person that Adam goes after? OO, who was one of the main components of DP. Oats I need your reviewed read of Adam, or whoever you want to lynch tomorrow. How is that hypocritical. My reads have changed and that evolution process is present in my filter. With the information that GK was town, and Oats is someone I now have a solid meta read on, I turn and look at everyone else in the game. Because clearly things are not as simple as they seem. OO cites my lack of confidence in scum reads as a reason why i'm scum. Here's a better explanation: I'm town and all the people I was looking at were town! we've flipped 2/3 of them and they've both been damn town. GEE, no wonder I wasn't confident about finding scum in there. What is your aversion to me pressing OO? If i'm wrong then his towniness will shine through and ill move along.
Of course, and I guess that ShiaoPi and GK failed that test because they weren't actually town - nonsense.
Tell me where and why I'm wrong in this post:
On June 28 2013 13:32 slOosh wrote:OO was one of DP's main lynches of choice D1. Both DP and rayn were willing to park their votes there (and they eventually did). OO was also the main pusher of the DP wagon. Refer to p 38. p 39~40 show rayn trying to push yamato or OO. yamato helped out with the lynch (3rd party, no reason why he wouldn't be playing roughly town) Hapa comes in pg 42 and opposes DP lynch. Hapa is a vocal town player with strong thread presence. marv comes in a bit later, stuff happens. Discussion moves away from DP. OO comes back in pg 47 and pushes DP more. Ange and I hop in around here. pg 48 marv votes GK. Hapa joins next page. They push for GK. They (marv mostly) push for it. OO at this point has a reasonable out: Show nested quote +On June 23 2013 07:52 ObviousOne wrote:
We can be reasonably sure that DP won't fuck off if he doesn't die today. Can we say the same about GK? And yet he keeps his vote on. Kills DP over GK, which we discussed isn't something we can see scum doing. The only place that it becomes even remotely feasible is if GK was also scum. So the order should be GK first, then OO if GK flips scum and game isn't over. I don't think there are 4 scum.
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Ball's in your court Adam.
##Vote: Adam4167
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On June 30 2013 13:47 Adam4167 wrote:
Oats, I still have no interest in lynching you. The fact that you're paranoid that I'm going to come after you is disappointing, but not unexpected.
If you guys think that lynching the person that has gone against thread sentiment since the moment he got into the game is a good idea, then you're either scum or stupid. You can check your role PM to find out which. While everyone else was content sitting back doing absolutely nothing, I was still working to solve this game.
I can only conclude that there is some kind of 2nd family or 3rd party at work here to explain why OO and DP went at each other so hard, yet OO still acts scummy as fuck.
##Vote: ObviousOne
Whatever, I am tired of talking to stupid.
See yall in the post game.
Show me
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On June 26 2013 11:58 Adam4167 wrote:
From a setup perspective, SK is extremely unlikely, as is two families of two. There just wouldn't be enough townies in the game with whats already been flipped. I think we keep it simple here and work with 1 scum remaining. Traitor is also a possibility as was earlier proposed.
On June 26 2013 12:43 Adam4167 wrote:
Well the obvious one to take off the table is OO, DP and Rayn both seemingly went to bed with their votes firmly parked on OO. I don't think they bussed their roleblocker on D1.
Still nada on this. If you've been reading me, this is the thing you should be focusing on, not glossing over.
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EPT
