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On July 18 2013 10:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Both of those are terribad.
like very terribad. VE gets lynched for doing dumb shit like this all the time, as for FT I really have no idea what you people think is scummy about him.
Try again boo boo.
No they aren't. you're too lazy to read my posts or you're his scumbuddy. There is no alternative. If you are too lazy to read what I'm saying about FirmTofu then you deserve to lose this game.
tl;dr
says i have strong townread on sloosh
i said nothing of the sort and tell him that
he says im not responding to his point (i did several times)
he says if i had just said my read was null on sloosh in the first place i wouldn't be suspicious and he lied that he thought i had a strong townread on him - but somehow his case is predicated on my response to his post about sloosh being a strong townread
i demonstrate that i had ALWAYS been saying the whole time that my read on him was null
he ignores that completely and says im being irrational
you can't do that
then he drops his case but continues making the same arguments against me, he says he still believes i am a liar but refuses to call me scum or pursue that anymore instead now talking about cases that have absolutely no substance like ace/directing attention
it makes no fucking sense
given everything FT has said and his logic, there is no way he isn't voting for me whether or not my tunneling is "townie" according to him i am a confirmed liar but everything he has said about me I have demonstrated to be untrue or deceptive with actual fucking quotes just read my case and it's so obvious jesus, particularly my last post where I'm screaming in all caps how he is PROVEN 100% to be full of shit
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oh and he even confirmed himself
he says "DrH makes valid points against me that are worth reading into." yet after he says that, he continues to argue against those exact points in a different context and make excuses for them. The only explanation for this is INHERENT GUILT.
Remember when Promethelax said junglejorge in LXI was suspicious for defending him? Why would town ever say anything close to that.
If FirmTofu is town, then I am wrong. Period. There is no reason to validate me, say I make a good point and then later ARGUE AGAINST THOSE POINTS AND SAY I MAKE NO SENSE. He's full of fucking shit he's trying to make himself look good and avoid arguing with me because he knows I nailed him and has no ammo, he's done.
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Who the fuck do you think you are? Stop posting and give your slot to someone who deserves it. Jesus.
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lmfao i can't believe how stupid tl towns are sometimes, I'm going to jump out a window when FT is the last remaining mafia and wins the game
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I only need one post a night to say anything I need to say. I in theory, support night silence. I just have a problem. 3 posts will be more than alright to give any kind of necessary possible pre-death info dump
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On July 19 2013 01:33 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 12:26 FirmTofu wrote:
Well, it looks like VE killed himself from where I'm standing. I have no idea why he voted for MZ at the last second, sealing his own fate. Wow, so much bad in so few words. 1: Show nested quote + I think the lurker policy lynch is always a good one to consider. Although they may not necessarily be the best lynch, they do serve the purpose of setting up the lategame well. We don't want our endgame to suffer from inactivity and these types of lynches should prevent that Hmm that sounds like a good point, wonder who said that, yeah that was you. And what was Meatpak if not a scummy lurker? He fit your initial preference, whats so scummy about Ve voting for him? Why didnt you consdider doing likewise, you were clearly around during the final hour seeing as you promptly made this jewel of a post. 2: A townie only knows for sure that he is a townie, it is his duty to make sure that he does not get lynched, Meatpak was a viable lynch and would have happened if not for Knolly, are you telling me that if you were in that exact same spot and another likely lynched popped up you would not vote to save yourself? 3: Why are you trying to justify a bad lynch? It happened, it was party your fault yes, but the point is to acknowledge the mistake and see what it means, instead you spend a precious post insulting Ve and defending your own retarded stance. 4: How many times do we need to say this? Ve could have confirmed himself, why would townies feel the need to vote for him right away? Grrrrr scum post detected. Also thanks Marv your the best ( : I don't really need a mason from anyone else anymore.
Do you see what I'm saying about this guy now? No one masoned with me, I think marv or rayn should since I have strong gut feelings both are town.
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I was donated night posts so I'll say this before I post my final thoughts at the end of the day. I'll still very likely at least push for a vig hit on FirmTofu tonight, but I'll try to consolidate my case so it makes more sense. It isn't at all entirely predicated on his reaction to sloOsh's post. Even small details can become huge parts of a scumcase if you unravel the logic behind them.
I have one mason left and I'm unsure who to use it on, or if it would even be wise to use it Night 1. I'm currently masoned (my choice in bold) with yamato77 and oatsmaster.
The pardoner claim is ultimately inconclusive but rayn has been playing pro-town this game. I will requote my thoughts on him from a PM. There is no need to engage in a circular argument about the pardoner role.
rayn has been acting very townie, he's playing recklessly and honestly. he's giving out way more information than he needs to.
#1 rule of being mafia - give town only the information that suits your interests
he claimed pardoner day 1 (an oft lynched demonstrably anti-town role) and also posted oatsmasters logs about me without prompt
people called him scum for being overly trusting, but this is a town trait NOT a mafia trait, mafia don't want to slip up in PMs and unless they have a clear plan of manipulation (pushing agenda) it's a waste of time - but rayn was using PMs to probe oatmasters head, a useless activity as scum because what any individual town thinks doesn't matter really
Rayn as scum could have used the information from oats to push me but he didn't. In fact he wasn't the one that accused me of lying, it was FirmTofu and other players that brought it up. Rayn was very reasonable about the whole affair which is a big missed opportunity for scum.
but tl;dr who wants to mason tonight? I'm so ignored.
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@FirmTofu
I find it unlikely. In the scenario that we're both town, a continued argument between us is beneficial to scum. Even if you choose to not engage with me, it will keep my attention on you Day 2 which is another day that mafia won't feel any sort of pressure from me. In the scenario that I'm scum and you're town, there's no reason I can't feign contribution by continuing to push you tomorrow.
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Exactly. All he did in NWM practically was post reads, he spent so little time doing anything else and his cases were all constructive and confident!
FirmTofu slipped up. When I posted my first "logical" case on him he says the following (paraphrasing):
DrH makes some good points against me, people should look into them and form their own opinions.
Does this sound like a townie to you? How many players in here have been falsely accused before and thought "Yeah, he makes a good point. People should listen to him!"
Nobody.
The same arguments I made in that post - that FirmTofu referred to as valid - are the same points I kept referring to ad nauseum, which he later calls irrational, emotional, nonsense. In fact - no one else in the thread is even buying them as valid! So in fact - FirmTofu is the sole person who agreed with my case against FirmTofu in the first place! Yet, as time goes on, he continues to insist my arguments hold no merit, that I am a liar, etc!
If I am a liar - how am I town?
If you look at all of his big posts in this thread - they lead to nothing and the motivations behind them are unclear or disjointed. This is not the same town FT I read in NWM.
Couple that with his first post at the beginning of the game and his motivation is clear - to be nonconfrontational and look as townie as possible. Rather than destroying my points (which have no way of being valid or correct if he is a townie - not to mention he says they are valid one minute and then continues to argue against them, which is ridiculously suspicious) he disengages and wastes his posts casting doubt on me. What is the point of casting doubt on me if you don't even believe I'm mafia?
It's so easy to sit back and say "You guys are dumb for lynching VE!!!!!" knowing as scum he's going to lynch town, but you didn't make an effort to push the lynch around to someone else. I screamed my face off trying to get somebody to vote for this guy with me and all FT does is sit back and let it happen, reap in the town cred. It's ridiculous!
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On July 19 2013 03:55 FirmTofu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2013 03:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
@FirmTofu
I find it unlikely. In the scenario that we're both town, a continued argument between us is beneficial to scum. Even if you choose to not engage with me, it will keep my attention on you Day 2 which is another day that mafia won't feel any sort of pressure from me. In the scenario that I'm scum and you're town, there's no reason I can't feign contribution by continuing to push you tomorrow. I tend to agree. I don't think I will be killed today because my death would make you useful to town again. Show nested quote +On July 19 2013 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FirmTofu why would you not post your reads? I'm starting to see why DrH thinks you are mafia. You are not doing things in "I am helping town" mindset. You are unsure of what you should do, and rather than doing stuff you think is right you ask people if they think it's wise and act accordingly. That's not how a townie thinks. Oh, I didn't mean my scum reads. I am definitely going to post those. I wanted to know if you wanted me to post my town reads or if that would just give scum too much information to work with in the event that I do not die.
scum knows who is town, they have literally perfect town reads, why would that help them in any way?
people are so concerned about this idea of "helping scum" the fact is anything we have already thought of, scum probably discussed/thought of way before us. it's nothing to worry about. you don't need to say who you think the medic is or whatever of course, why would that help scum? wtf
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wow i fucking knew yamato was mafia too lol i'll post my pm logs with him in a second 
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Yamato77:
And here I thought I masoned an intelligent, rational player.
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
You're mafia
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From yamato77:
It's easy to say that after a lynch. I might have switched if I'd been there for his claim and shit but I was working.
But whatever, now it's even more important to scumhunt well. I don't know what the fuck Ace and Meapak are doing but between the both of them there's fuck all content produced. I knew I should have gone with my gut on MZ. He's been in the game since the beginning and hasn't even tried to actually play.
As for FT, dude, I'm not convinced. You've been tunneling him the whole day and it's gotten to a point where even if he is mafia, no one is listening to you. And again, even if he is mafia, there are still 4 others in the game alive, so it might be best to look at other people for a while. If it comes around tomorrow and he's still your strongest read, then maybe it's real.
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
wait, did you vote him? ugh it was relaly obvious he is town
Original Message From yamato77:
What the fuck?
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
if you vote for VE i'm pushing you to be vig shot tomorrow night
Original Message From yamato77:
er, scratch that. Oats calling me scum is not alignment indicative. He does that every game. He makes good points about VE in his posts and he's one of the most active players both in the thread and in PMs. I don't think an Oats case is going to be useful.
Original Message From DoctorHelvetica:
oh, and it's important that oatsmaster doesn't know i think he is scum for a while at least
can you tell me when/if you plan on making a constructive post so i can PM you a poisonpill case to add to it, i'm really trying hard not to hit post limit before the last few hours pre-lynch, obviously if you change anything i will bandwagon you hard
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yamato's PMs implicate FT even more. but yeah i guess my case was total shit anyway right? i hate tl towns day 1, actual cases get completely dismissed but get 3 idiots chirping about VE without saying anything logical and everyone sheeps it because it just clogs the thread
goodbye tofu
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Ace isn't scum, mafia was actively trying to push him as another wagon
if you think the scum team all voted/pushed VE in unison you are mistaken. anyone who tries to push marvellosity or rayn at this point is also mafia or completely absent from thread.
i.e. Kholly
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Why the fuck would Ace the scum fakeclaim to lynch a townie when it would basically secure his lynch tomorrow, he is already under something of a hotseat (but not that threatened compared to MZ, sloOSh) that's a 1:1 scum trade with a townie, Ace is one of the best scum in the history of TL Mafia I don't give a fuck about WIFOM he would NEVER do that. I already proved FirmTofu was scum on Day 1 but no one wanted to read! There is no defense FirmTofu can give. He should be completely ignored at this point.
The lynch is already decided. We need to determine if we have another town day KP or who we can shoot tomorrow night, bring out yamato/FT's teammates.
Splintering wagons onto Ace may have been a ploy to save sloOsh in the case that he was lynched.
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Would he do it twice in a row? This fits my confirmation bias that I am almost 100% sure that FirmTofu is scum regardless, so I'm not willing to venture into conspiracy theory territory. If a cop claims a guilty check, that's where our votes needs to go. If he sacrifices 1:1, then the town still one. But let's consider yamato throwing suspicion onto Ace right away in PMs to me, he's saying a lot of the same things i think I recall firmtofu saying as well, didn't FT want to lynch Ace instead of VE at a certain point?
Look for anyone that sheeped Yamato in the meantime, but FT is cooked.
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On July 20 2013 02:56 kushm4sta wrote:
oats - this guy is pretty unreadable. I can see him easily being town or scum. I have definitely seen him act like this as town.
ft - town. his response to aces fake claim was really in depth and townie. go reread it of you think it makes him scummy because honestly it is one of the towniest things in the game.
marv - scum or third party. Really seems like he doesn't give a shit. defended yamato. defended sloosh. said he thought dbz lynch was retarded but did nothing to stop it. The least he should have done is change his cote to sloosh.
sloosh - scum. the dbz lynch was retarded. beyond retarded. like a negative score on the iq test retarded. he claimed and he could PROVE his role the next day. yet he was still lynched. this points to dbz lynch being the scum alternative to the sloosh wagon.
kushm4sta is scum, this post is basically proof
oatsmaster is probably scum but im unwilling to stop bandwagoning firmtofu. if firmtofu is not lynched in this game I will never sign up for another mafia game again in my life.
my case cannot be reduced to meta (the least important part of my case, just extra evidence that is acctually getting stronger over time if you pay attention to what FT Is actually doing) or the simple point of him validating me (which singlehandedly pproves he is scum and not town, beyond a shadow of a doubt) there is way more but people are too lazy to read or comprehend the business about sloOsh, i'm almost ready to give up on this game because of this
regardless - oats is an acceptable lynch - he was very active in PMing me before, probing my mind and trying to gain an understanding of what I was thinking - as soon as I stopped pressuring him at all in PMs or going to him, he completely stopped PMing me or offering any thought whatsoever, he wasn't utilizing our mason at all. tbh this is what first made me suspicious of yamato77, was that I had to try really hard to get anything out of them.
Oatsmaster has been doing this thing in PMs with me where he answers one question of mine and not really the other until I really push him for it. But he hasn't PMd me since the first half of Day 1 actually. That's very odd.
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On July 20 2013 04:35 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Koshi why not vote for OATS?
I tried to convince oats I was scum and he wouldn't bite but I'm not sure what that means
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No one is going to kill me. I was out of town today and it was on short notice. I'll catch up with this thread by the end of Night 2. Sorry everyone. If you consider that, you're dumb.
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On July 21 2013 15:29 kholly wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2013 15:15 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
No one is going to kill me. I was out of town today and it was on short notice. I'll catch up with this thread by the end of Night 2. Sorry everyone. If you consider that, you're dumb. You don't think scum will kill you for me? Don't forget you were in jail yesterday. You can thank FirmTofu for that.
Was I? I never got any sort of PM from a mod so I don't know what you're talking about yet until I catch up to the thread.
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EPT
