EPTMocsta + Good Karma
Hydra Mini Mafia II - Extra Nuke Edition
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
Mocsta + Good Karma | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
Hapa, what is it about his posts that makes you think that WaveofCheesecake is town? | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 13 2013 14:33 FiveTouch wrote: Also is that the only question you have? I find it hard to believe that the entire body of your thoughts hinge on the answer to that question. I believe you answered your other question, but this one is relevant. I have not been satisfied with the present cases presented, and feel that a new line of questioning is needed to find scum. Really not that hard to understand tbh... As for number of questions, I only start with one. Shoot off like ten and you're 1) not going to get them all answered, and 2) going to likely derail the thread as it goes in ten different directions. The disappointing aspect of the game is that we have a bunch of people waiting for better scumhunters to "carry" them. And yet, their lack of participation makes it that much harder to find scum (like half the people in the game, so they can't all be scum...). The latest example: On April 13 2013 14:10 raynmaster wrote: Not enough nukes. see ya in like 10 more hours. Like WTF? My favorite way to find scum is by process of elimination, so I'm going to start by trying to sort through this mess of people. And if you were wondering about Wave, my question to Hapa was working towards this goal. | ||
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MockArmor
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For DP/Palmar, definitely subpar play. Sadly, they are one of several people who have done next to nothing... As for Hapa: I really didn't understand his townread on Wave (hence why I asked). His explanation wasn't very strong either. I know that Hapa's a strong town player, and find it hard to believe the guy would do something like this so haphazardly. The recent mislynch of Ace in my mind though reminds me that good players do dumb things. So this is a poor reason to suspect Hapa as scum. But there's more to it than that.: But there's Scum Motivation too for this action. As scum, Hapa has Wave "buddied" to sway the vote. Wave already extended out to Hapa saying he was going to buddy him, so why not take advantage of this as scum? I know he's aware of what motivates buddying, as I recall him using buddying as a casepoint before in a past game. I'm looking forward to Hapa's defense. ##FoS: Shotgun | ||
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MockArmor
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On April 13 2013 15:52 FiveTouch wrote: I don't like the "That's just..not what he does" argument. What DOES he do? When his fabricated bullshit case get's fucking trounced, how DOES mafia Hapa respond? But whatever, you're right I'm tunneled in after specifically trying to look at other people. Let's instead lynch Palmar/DP...because they're scum, but more importantly, I thoroughly enjoy making them angry. ##Unvote ##Vote: JohnMatrix I mean I get they haven't been useful, but what specific scum-motivated actions have they done? I don't see that in your case. Only scummy actions they could be doing as either alignment. | ||
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On April 13 2013 16:01 ShotgunBiceps wrote: That's terrrrrrible. Like of all the reasons you could have came up with from the last 10 pages of spam, that's what you come up with? The logic in this post: 1) I have a town-read you don't understand 2) ...BUT that's a "poor reason" to ssuepct me 3) HOWEVER there's the POSSIBILITY that I buddied Wave. 4) Therefore... I'm suspicious? What on earth? I mean what's there even to defend. You called one of your own reasons for finding me suspicious bad, then you say I "buddied" someone. That's a statement, and not analysis. Who's posting here? Is this GK? Calling a dude that buddied you town (with such weak reasoning) is a way to buddy him back in my eyes. I was hoping for some kind of elaboration, like "From all the play I've seen from wave I believe he would be too timid to make a list of names as scum." Or whatever specific meta-reason it may be (like more specific than what you've said...). With hopefully a prior game link or two to show it. Because I'm not privy to this meta-reason that you seem to be. List posts are kinda really easy to make regardless of alignment... I really don't follow how you can have decided the guy was town based off what you've presented here in thread. | ||
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MockArmor
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On April 13 2013 16:09 FiveTouch wrote: How about the weak +1 to Yam Suspicion and never following up on it? That doesn't strike you as "scum motivated" in spite of having weak +1 suspicion of me too? Lots of weak +1 posts is no longer a valid scum tell around here? Perhaps I've set the bar a bit low since my last game with DP. I mean, the guy didn't really seem to jump in (in The Game) until VE came at him, and the way he responded really felt like some kind of scum emotional OMGUS response at the time (when he was actually town)... From my experience, town DP does have more balls though, so I would agree that meta-argument supports the theory of a scum DP. But in general: being wishy washy, while scummy, is definitely something town does too. I remember soooo many townies in past games that behaved like that. Hence why I asked about scum motivation, as in what specific scum agenda would he be pushing? They are different, non-interchangable terms to me. | ||
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MockArmor
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 On April 13 2013 16:51 goodkarma wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2013 16:29 ShotgunBiceps wrote: Well I don't think it's weak. I think it shows a light-hearted mentality that's hard to fake as scum, and it's uncannily observant for something that could be a "mafia-joke". Of course that doesn't mean that I'm going to ignore everything he says right now and treat him like auto-town, but I like the mentality behind that post. As for a meta reason, I'd kinda expect a newer scum-player (WoS hasn't played as mafia to my knowledge) to be a lot more uptight and serious. Instead he comes in joking, and that goes at odds with my expectations of his scum-play. As for "buddying," how is that at all a heuristic for catching scum? I talk to newbies about not making reads based on that kinda stuff, and I see you doing it. So who is posting here? GK? I didn't go back and check until just now, but this from a much older game (LVII) was what was in my mind.: Seems you didn't directly implicate it as a scumtell, but you had no problem with it either... But that was a much better explanation. Thank you. | ||
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On April 13 2013 23:09 FiveTouch wrote: is this sarcasm?My vote on Palmar was based on the (perhaps foolhardy) belief that I can make Palmar contribute with pressure. I share the belief that he's most likely town based on mod-action, but I'm so fucking sick of him not doing shit on D1 and then DYING. He only does that shit because you shits let him. "Oh it's Palmar you know, whatever right?" No one wants to make him EARN the N1 shot, in spite of him soaking it up all the time. Well I want him to earn that shit. He needs to stop being a useless fuck - especially now that he's confirmed town. Stop being a useless little shit Palmar. Has your opinion Hapa evolved now that some time has lapsed since the "bish fest" | ||
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On April 13 2013 23:19 SamuelLJackson wrote: Mocsta you didn't answer my question. Why did you attempt to make a big deal out of a person posting something that in essence looked like a confirmation post and a post implying that he was going to bed? The complaint in general feels false given that the game had just started and it doesn't seem like you could have genuinely felt frustrated by the state of things at the time of the post. The question should not be addressed to Mocsta. Regardless; I have been content with the posting of my partner.. I also believe the post you have chosen to bring attention is, contains a valid opinion of thread sentiment. Rather, I think it is you, who is choosing to elucidate matters of the minutiae to the fore. | ||
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On April 13 2013 23:42 raynmaster wrote: Why would you not want a player you are talking to in the first place to answer? Are you gonna try to get out of bad spot by letting your partner to answer a question directed to someone else? /rayn That answer was clearly written by Mocsta. As is this response. What is your point? Are you suggesting that I am able to elucidate the inate thoughts of GoodKarma at the time of writing? What i do know is that the post in question, shared the same sentiments I felt at the time. The thread was too spammy; too crazy; and too emotional. | ||
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On April 13 2013 23:19 SamuelLJackson wrote: New page.Palmar: still interested in your thoughts on Waveofcheese JohnMatrix Please share. | ||
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On April 13 2013 23:45 raynmaster wrote: From what i remember Palmar has a lot of meta on VE. VE could think Palmar is actually nuking him for a reason. Also the answer to their post came pretty quick and without thinking it much further. If it was marv i would think you would have thought about the possibilities from every perspective before posting a response. As it was VE, it's more likely that you guys actually are scum. Not sure though. I gotta consult Oats about what he does think of you guys. /rayn Why do you feel the need to post in the thread to contribute; and then limp-dick finish with "I need to consult with my partner." This aligns very much with what Syllo said earlier - and from my experience in Hydra 1, I 100% agree. On April 13 2013 18:31 SamuelLJackson wrote: In a hydra format players should be more confident in sharing their thoughts and lacking the need to comment on irrelevant things as they can discuss things with their partner. Meanwhile mafia still feels the pressure of posting.. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 13 2013 23:53 raynmaster wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2013 23:47 MockArmor wrote: That answer was clearly written by Mocsta. As is this response. What is your point? Are you suggesting that I am able to elucidate the inate thoughts of GoodKarma at the time of writing? What i do know is that the post in question, shared the same sentiments I felt at the time. The thread was too spammy; too crazy; and too emotional. Wait i don't understand: I thought SLJ asked something from Mocsta and you tried to argue that it does not matter which one of you guys answer the question? Can you explain what happened? /rayn My (Mocsta) first post in the game; was the response to Syllo that you questioned me about. As I said, I can't tell you what GK had running in his mind at the time. All i can comment is that I agreed with his perception on thread sentiment. | ||
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MockArmor
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On April 13 2013 23:54 raynmaster wrote: Yes, we have reads.+ Show Spoiler + On April 13 2013 23:47 MockArmor wrote: That answer was clearly written by Mocsta. As is this response. What is your point? Are you suggesting that I am able to elucidate the inate thoughts of GoodKarma at the time of writing? What i do know is that the post in question, shared the same sentiments I felt at the time. The thread was too spammy; too crazy; and too emotional. Hey do you have any reads? Or expand on your hapa read please. To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle. + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, town Hapa is quick to jump to conclusions, and just as quick to re-evaluate his reads and make his current stance visible. I think that occured today. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 13 2013 21:16 FondleMyButtocks wrote: Please indulge us with this.My main man Phagga thinks that MockArmour looks scummiest but if he wants to he can make the case. I'm not seeing it yet though, for traditions sake, I almost want to case up GK. As you are more than aware: a case says so much more about the maker, than the recipient. | ||
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On April 14 2013 00:04 raynmaster wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 00:02 MockArmor wrote: Yes, we have reads. To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle. + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, town Hapa is quick to jump to conclusions, and just as quick to re-evaluate his reads and make his current stance visible. I think that occured today. So why is your vote still on him? Neither of you appear to have any other scumreads, care to share one? I didnt know a vote was on Hapa lol. ##Unvote Will give scumreads in due course young grass-hopper. This is still round 1, and everyone is jabbing to determine distances. When we want to launch the combination followed by uppercut; trust me. You will be the first to know. | ||
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MockArmor
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On April 14 2013 00:04 raynmaster wrote: But then why are you accusing me now of trying to figure out what Oats is thinking of marv/VE? Why are you allowed to consult your hydra about stuff but i have to only share my thoughts? And for the record, i did not know Oats was around now. He posted and focused on entirely different things than i did. I asked him about marv/VE in our QT because he has far more meta on people than i do. /rayn For brevity: + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2013 23:45 raynmaster wrote: From what i remember Palmar has a lot of meta on VE. VE could think Palmar is actually nuking him for a reason. Also the answer to their post came pretty quick and without thinking it much further. If it was marv i would think you would have thought about the possibilities from every perspective before posting a response. As it was VE, it's more likely that you guys actually are scum. Not sure though. I gotta consult Oats about what he does think of you guys. /rayn On April 13 2013 23:53 MockArmor wrote: Why do you feel the need to post in the thread to contribute; and then limp-dick finish with "I need to consult with my partner." This aligns very much with what Syllo said earlier - and from my experience in Hydra 1, I 100% agree. On April 13 2013 18:31 SamuelLJackson wrote: In a hydra format players should be more confident in sharing their thoughts and lacking the need to comment on irrelevant things as they can discuss things with their partner. Meanwhile mafia still feels the pressure of posting.. Disagree; further, the question was far from rhetorical. Please answer. | ||
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On April 14 2013 00:17 raynmaster wrote: MockArmor: Hope this post of mine explains it: No it doesn't explain the situation at all. For brevity once more + Show Spoiler + On April 13 2013 23:45 raynmaster wrote: From what i remember Palmar has a lot of meta on VE. VE could think Palmar is actually nuking him for a reason. Also the answer to their post came pretty quick and without thinking it much further. If it was marv i would think you would have thought about the possibilities from every perspective before posting a response. As it was VE, it's more likely that you guys actually are scum. Not sure though. I gotta consult Oats about what he does think of you guys. /rayn On April 13 2013 23:53 MockArmor wrote: Why do you feel the need to post in the thread to contribute; and then limp-dick finish with "I need to consult with my partner." This aligns very much with what Syllo said earlier - and from my experience in Hydra 1, I 100% agree. On April 13 2013 18:31 SamuelLJackson wrote: In a hydra format players should be more confident in sharing their thoughts and lacking the need to comment on irrelevant things as they can discuss things with their partner. Meanwhile mafia still feels the pressure of posting.. Let us re-cap the situation thus far:
If you are incapable of contributing to the thread, due to weak meta history; or, needing to reference with your partner in general. Why post in the first place? Before trying to bullshit me: keep in mind, I was scum in the last Hydra game. Henceforth why I agreed in full with the Syllo quote, which I will post for you one more time. On April 13 2013 18:31 SamuelLJackson wrote: In a hydra format players should be more confident in sharing their thoughts and lacking the need to comment on irrelevant things as they can discuss things with their partner. Meanwhile mafia still feels the pressure of posting.. P.S. Im not quoting this post, because Syllo saying it makes it valid. Im quoting it because he said it in better words than I. | ||
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MockArmor
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On April 14 2013 00:35 raynmaster wrote: Its just Mocsta and the fact that he currently has said that he doesnt want to disclose any reads. Walk me through in particular why that is scummy. Walk me through why a townie would not choose to give out scumreads 12hrs into the game. + answer the outstanding question I have directed to you. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=29#566 | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 00:40 raynmaster wrote: I will give out scum read(s) by declaring by means of a vote/case/comment etc when I feel it is appropiate. + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 00:37 MockArmor wrote: Walk me through in particular why that is scummy. Walk me through why a townie would not choose to give out scumreads 12hrs into the game. + answer the outstanding question I have directed to you. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=29#566 Dude, its like 18 hours, almost 24. Because then you are not taking a stand on anything and you dont have any hard statments that you have to make regarding a person's alignment. Like you can always say, NO NO I DIDNT THINK HE WAS SCUM, I DIDNT SAY THAT. So make a stand, put out your reads. I have no idea why you dont want to give out SCUMREADS at all. Thats rayn posting, Im oats. Famously said, I DONT KNOW WHAT HE IS THINKING. Certainly not only because it was requested. Oh, and Oats, I am confident you will find that I answered /Rayns question in its entirety. I must admit, that I think continuing exploring this conversation is of merit however. Thus, I am still awaiting feedback to my questions. | ||
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On April 14 2013 00:54 raynmaster wrote: The point was: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 00:50 MockArmor wrote: I will give out scum read(s) by declaring by means of a vote/case/comment etc when I feel it is appropiate. Certainly not only because it was requested. I must admit, that I think continuing exploring this conversation is of merit however. Thus, I am still awaiting feedback to my questions. Whats the point of this thing? to say DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO? or something else?
Namely, Question 1 & Question 2 I admit you (Oats) gave half a response to question 2. But unfornately its still only half a response. And further, I didn't realise Raynpelikoneet needed a "patsy" to speak on his behalf. | ||
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just replace with, needed his "qt partner" | ||
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Further, his response has been far from satisfactory. He has dodged the core of the matter entirely. As for the second question; no; you did not answer it (completely). In addition, I also find it interesting how quick you are to launch into ad-hominems. Let me break it down for you. Rayn asked me 2 questions. Do I have reads // what is my read on Hapa. I answered both in their entirety. He reciprocates by proclaiming my response was scummy; as i chose not to elucidate on my reads (even though he did not directly ask). I asked why my response can only be scummy; and in essence, can not originate from town. Neither of you have addressed this question. Your statement about giving hard stances etc, whilst a valid comment, does not imply one is town or scum. Thus, one: does not align with the stance of your QT partner Rayn; and two: does not explain why the comment can not originate from town. I expect this to clear up the differences. If you prefer Rayn to continue this discussion, than I suggest you do not reply to this. | ||
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MockArmor
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On April 14 2013 01:13 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Reads are subject to change, in particular Day1 where new information comes to bear rapidly.+ Show Spoiler + On April 13 2013 15:54 MockArmor wrote: My prior was post presented after VE presents rather valid points on both shotgun and DP/Palmar... For DP/Palmar, definitely subpar play. Sadly, they are one of several people who have done next to nothing... As for Hapa: I really didn't understand his townread on Wave (hence why I asked). His explanation wasn't very strong either. I know that Hapa's a strong town player, and find it hard to believe the guy would do something like this so haphazardly. The recent mislynch of Ace in my mind though reminds me that good players do dumb things. So this is a poor reason to suspect Hapa as scum. But there's more to it than that.: But there's Scum Motivation too for this action. As scum, Hapa has Wave "buddied" to sway the vote. Wave already extended out to Hapa saying he was going to buddy him, so why not take advantage of this as scum? I know he's aware of what motivates buddying, as I recall him using buddying as a casepoint before in a past game. I'm looking forward to Hapa's defense. ##FoS: Shotgun On April 14 2013 00:02 MockArmor wrote: Yes, we have reads. To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle. + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, town Hapa is quick to jump to conclusions, and just as quick to re-evaluate his reads and make his current stance visible. I think that occured today. Can you explain this, MA? You FoS Hapa because he has scum motivation for buddying me etc etc and is kinda scummy whatever. Then you call him town?. My read on Hapa is as I described in the post below. On April 14 2013 00:02 MockArmor wrote: GKs conversation with Hapa placed his thoughts in alignment with mine; if that is what you were actaully asking.To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle. + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, town Hapa is quick to jump to conclusions, and just as quick to re-evaluate his reads and make his current stance visible. I think that occured today. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:28 raynmaster wrote: To add on, you said that it can originate from town, I say that I cant think of a situation where town doesnt want to be forthcoming with his reads. Town does not need to be forthcoming with reads. Town chooses to be forthcoming, assuming it equates to transparency, and thus, establishing innocence. What town needs to do is scum hunt; and that is precisely why I did not want to give out reads at the point in time. Why? (1) The thread is full of loose/emotional comments being thrown around. Many people are looking scummy for contributing to this "shit-fest" and its easy to get tunneled on bad play; as opposed to scummy play. --------------Constantly, asking for "reads" is inhibiting critical evaluation from taking place; as you are asking someone to crystalize their thoughts before they have soaked in this "shit fest" of a thread. (2) Instead of giving out meaningless "reads"; I would rather enter discourse with my reads to discern their alignment. Theres a damn good reason I have been maintaing dialogue with you/rayn. Anywho, I think you (Oats) and I are done with conversation. I await Raynpelikoneets response to my outstanding questions. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:42 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: If you want to build a case on me, please go ahead.Idk MockArmor, looks like you wanted to push a misslynch on Hapa, then he retaliated and you decided to give him a town read for appeasement. There should be sufficient filter to cherry pick. In fact, I would like you to be accountable for making a comment such as the above. Do not tell me it "looks like you wanted to push a misslynch on Hapa". Stop throwing shit around, and prove it to me. Walk me through why the phrasing GK used specifically relates to wanting to push a misslynch. Walk me through why my phrasing is designed for appeasement. | ||
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This is shitting up the thread; so will be my last reply to you regarding this conversation. | ||
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On April 14 2013 01:59 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 00:02 MockArmor wrote: Yes, we have reads. To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle. + Show Spoiler + In my opinion, town Hapa is quick to jump to conclusions, and just as quick to re-evaluate his reads and make his current stance visible. I think that occured today. Well, you go through the trouble of digging up something potentially scummy from Hapa and question him about it. After a few hours of lurking, you guys suddenly come to the conclusion that Hapa is probably town (or something to that effect) and deem him no longer worthy of pursing today. I understand the stance, but what I don't understand is why, if you have initial suspicions of Hapa, that you're willing to let him off the hook so easily and not entertain the possibility of investigating him this cycle. Firstly, you have a keen enough eye to pay attention to our posts; yet, are not observant enough to notice that the early pressure on Hapa was solely GK. FYI, I entered the thread roughly 4 hours, caught up; gave my reads to GK. Let me quote him hhaha (cos i was surprised too) "I agree ironically with pretty much everything you've said". Secondly, you have a very strong choice of words here Wave. "let him off the hook so easily" // "a few hours of lurking"; if I didnt know better, I would think you are calling me scum. Yet, I do not see a vote or a case for the accountability I was talking about earlier. To answer your question; I didnt think a ##FoS was hard pressure; thus enabling "letting off the hook easily". Thirdly, (to address the crux of your concerns) you present your opinion as if reads are not subject to change. Why is this? I explained why I let Hapa off the hook in short. You still have not explained in detail what the dispute is? Lastly, "I understand the stance" what does this actually mean? | ||
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On April 14 2013 02:24 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 02:17 MockArmor wrote: Firstly, you have a keen enough eye to pay attention to our posts; yet, are not observant enough to notice that the early pressure on Hapa was solely GK. FYI, I entered the thread roughly 4 hours, caught up; gave my reads to GK. Let me quote him hhaha (cos i was surprised too) "I agree ironically with pretty much everything you've said". Secondly, you have a very strong choice of words here Wave. "let him off the hook so easily" // "a few hours of lurking"; if I didnt know better, I would think you are calling me scum. Yet, I do not see a vote or a case for the accountability I was talking about earlier. To answer your question; I didnt think a ##FoS was hard pressure; thus enabling "letting off the hook easily". Thirdly, (to address the crux of your concerns) you present your opinion as if reads are not subject to change. Why is this? I explained why I let Hapa off the hook in short. You still have not explained in detail what the dispute is? Lastly, "I understand the stance" what does this actually mean? I'm not calling you scum, nor do I believe you are at this stage. [red]My point remains that FoS's in general are very noncomittal and, if you are scum, that is your way out, "I understand the stance" = I know what your stance is on Hapa currently. MA, what's your read on Rayn after all the "AHMIGERD GIMME READS" stuff? Thank you for admitting: you are looking purely at the action (FoS). It doesnt matter what you think it "scummy in general'. What matters is whether you think GK motives were scummy. Lets apply some critical thought: Do you think the manner GK maintained dialogue is indicative of someone trying to be non-committal; someone trying not to discern alignment; someone not trying to figure out the game? ------------------------------------------- Secondly, and the brief clause you provided to claim Hapa = town was fairly generic in flow with the thread. Are you suggesting, because I happen to agree with a 'flow in the thread' that I become scummish in conjuction with an old FoS? Are you suggesting, it is scummy for reads to be re-evaluated? ------------------------------------------- Lastly, I am still waiting for Rayn to reply back. Dialogue onus is currently on him. What do you make of Rayn; since you seem to be carrying his torch. - I do believe he was the one that questioned me originally regarding Hapa, ironically telling me we had voted him; when in fact it was just an FoS. | ||
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On April 14 2013 02:24 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: So you are not calling me scum; nor do you "believe" I am scum currently.I'm not calling you scum, nor do I believe you are at this stage. + Show Spoiler [Blah blah] + ]My point remains that FoS's in general are very noncomittal and, if you are scum, that is your way out, and the brief clause you provided to claim Hapa = town was fairly generic in flow with the thread. "I understand the stance" = I know what your stance is on Hapa currently. MA, what's your read on Rayn after all the "AHMIGERD GIMME READS" stuff? So...Why are we going through this dance then? You know.. where you repeat the same things where the subtext infers you think the actions are scummy On April 14 2013 01:42 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Idk MockArmor, looks like you wanted to push a misslynch on Hapa, then he retaliated and you decided to give him a town read for appeasement. On April 14 2013 01:59 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Well, you go through the trouble of digging up something potentially scummy from Hapa and question him about it. After a few hours of lurking, you guys suddenly come to the conclusion that Hapa is probably town (or something to that effect) and deem him no longer worthy of pursing today. I understand the stance, but what I don't understand is why, if you have initial suspicions of Hapa, that you're willing to let him off the hook so easily and not entertain the possibility of investigating him this cycle. This certainly doesnt read as curious; the connotation is clearly negative, and designed to read as scummy actions. So WaveOfCheesecake When did you read of us evolve to "not scum" And what set it off; please walk me through this. | ||
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Both slots here agree on FMB. Im happy we both picked up on the GK comment. This is what I wrote about FMB in the QT. "I also dont like Prome/Phagga so far. They look like they are looking for bad actions, rather than scum motivation. i.e. them picking on us. Your questions are town confidence." I am also awaiting their MA case. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 02:43 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 02:35 MockArmor wrote: Thank you for admitting: you are looking purely at the action (FoS). It doesnt matter what you think it "scummy in general'. What matters is whether you think GK motives were scummy. Lets apply some critical thought: Do you think the manner GK maintained dialogue is indicative of someone trying to be non-committal; someone trying not to discern alignment; someone not trying to figure out the game? ------------------------------------------- Secondly, Are you suggesting, because I happen to agree with a 'flow in the thread' that I become scummish in conjuction with an old FoS? Are you suggesting, it is scummy for reads to be re-evaluated? ------------------------------------------- Lastly, I am still waiting for Rayn to reply back. Dialogue onus is currently on him. What do you make of Rayn; since you seem to be carrying his torch. - I do believe he was the one that questioned me originally regarding Hapa, ironically telling me we had voted him; when in fact it was just an FoS. I am suggesting that scum tend to re-evaluate their 'reads' very quickly. Reading your filter it seemed like 'shit, Hapa totes suspicious", then a post or two later was 'nah, Hapa probs town". [red]I think you've cleared it up nicely, however. Actually, I dont think anything has been cleared. I did not explain a single action: instead, I threw it back to you to prove your stance. Lets apply some critical thought: Any reason you are shying away from this?Do you think the manner GK maintained dialogue is indicative of someone trying to be non-committal; someone trying not to discern alignment; someone not trying to figure out the game? We dont get any resemblance of applying that critical though; yet, the opinion has changed. Let me remind you of an important quote, you might even recognise the originator  On April 14 2013 02:43 xxx wrote: I am suggesting that scum tend to re-evaluate their 'reads' very quickly. This ties in quite nicely with your recent post On April 14 2013 02:43 MockArmor wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 02:24 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: So you are not calling me scum; nor do you "believe" I am scum currently.I'm not calling you scum, nor do I believe you are at this stage. + Show Spoiler [Blah blah] + ]My point remains that FoS's in general are very noncomittal and, if you are scum, that is your way out, and the brief clause you provided to claim Hapa = town was fairly generic in flow with the thread. "I understand the stance" = I know what your stance is on Hapa currently. MA, what's your read on Rayn after all the "AHMIGERD GIMME READS" stuff? So...Why are we going through this dance then? You know.. where you repeat the same things where the subtext infers you think the actions are scummy On April 14 2013 01:42 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Idk MockArmor, looks like you wanted to push a misslynch on Hapa, then he retaliated and you decided to give him a town read for appeasement. On April 14 2013 01:59 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Well, you go through the trouble of digging up something potentially scummy from Hapa and question him about it. After a few hours of lurking, you guys suddenly come to the conclusion that Hapa is probably town (or something to that effect) and deem him no longer worthy of pursing today. I understand the stance, but what I don't understand is why, if you have initial suspicions of Hapa, that you're willing to let him off the hook so easily and not entertain the possibility of investigating him this cycle. This certainly doesnt read as curious; the connotation is clearly negative, and designed to read as scummy actions. So WaveOfCheesecake When did you read of us evolve to "not scum" And what set it off; please walk me through this. On April 14 2013 02:46 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Why are you telling me you have a critical tone regardless of alignment?I have a really critical tone regardless of alignment. From what it looked like in your filter (I wasn't paying attention to who was talking, just the smurf), it went from HAPA SUSPECT to HAPA TOWN pretty fast. Looked like you got scared and just stopped. But apparently it's just you coming in and telling GK to stop being wrong? Why do you feel the need to insert alignment? When did i call you scum; I just asked for a critical thought opinion? This reads as inherent guilt to me. Further; I did not come in and tell GK to stop being wrong. GK hasn't been in the thread since I have been online. In addition; even if I told him he was wrong, how does that evolve your read to "not scum". ====================== So in short. When did you think we were not scum. What made you change your mind. If you thought we were town, due to the Hapa issues; why continue to ask questions that imply you think MA is scummy. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
This is your line of thought in regards to my commentary On April 14 2013 00:02 MockArmor wrote: To expand on Hapa: We don't perceive him as scum; nor an entity to invest further time into this cycle. On April 14 2013 02:46 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: it went from HAPA SUSPECT to HAPA TOWN pretty fast. Hence, you conclude I inferred town. On April 14 2013 03:17 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: It is more than reasonable to expect, you inferred we are town here. I'm not calling you scum, nor do I believe you are at this stage. So what do we get? On April 14 2013 03:17 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Never thought you were town. ============= Now, if you are town, I am not concerned whether you think I am town/null or whatever. What I am concerned about is, why you think what you do. So an answer such as this: On April 14 2013 03:00 MockArmor wrote: 2.) What made you change your mind. On April 14 2013 03:17 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Is certainly not good enough; and requires further clarity and explanation.2.) My brain, something in there. In particular when the crux of the dialogue you initiated was: On April 14 2013 01:13 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Lets not be hypocritical. I look forward to your more detailed response.Can you explain this, MA? You FoS Hapa because he has scum motivation for buddying me etc etc and is kinda scummy whatever. Then you call him town? | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
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MockArmor
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On April 14 2013 02:43 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: I am suggesting that scum tend to re-evaluate their 'reads' very quickly. Funny how you went from: On April 14 2013 03:33 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: to*Refers to MockArmor* To get a read on someone who was null* On April 14 2013 03:00 MockArmor wrote: So in short. 1.) When did you think we were not scum. 2.) What made you change your mind. 3.) If you thought we were town, due to the Hapa issues; why continue to ask questions that imply you think MA is scummy. On April 14 2013 03:17 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: to1.) I though you were scummy, and I wanted an answer for that flip-flop on Hapa. 2.) My brain, something in there. 3.) Never thought you were town. On April 14 2013 03:19 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: tolike I thought you were totes scum and now I think you're totes town. On April 14 2013 03:25 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: In fact, why are you blowing this over the top, when all I wanted was a simple explanation of your guys' reads on Hapa? You seem really paranoid about defending yourself right now. ================================= Let me jog your memory ##Vote: WaveOfCheesecake | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
"i'm so high" you can not be held accountable? | ||
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Vatican City State88 Posts
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 03:47 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Read the quote again. Enlighten me. Its 3am, im tired; and I dont get the inferrence. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 03:48 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: + Show Spoiler + None of that is indicative of anything whatsoever, Mocsta; CC and I have been talking throughout this conversation you've been having with him. He's just writing stuff, possibly while high, and we have slightly differing views on what your conversation has meant thus far. Let me go through it with you though, since you don't seem to understand his point of view: First CC thought you were scummy, now he thinks you're town. The quote where he says he never thought you were town? He meant before, you know, when he thought you were scummy. What's the deal with you attempting to turn everything we say around on us though? I can't be sure of what CC thinks of you right now, but you've been null-leaning scum for me for ages, including now. Why dont you start by telling me, when CC joined the conversation. Or are you suggesting it has been CC the entire time from the first accusation. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 03:53 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 03:48 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: None of that is indicative of anything whatsoever, Mocsta; CC and I have been talking throughout this conversation you've been having with him. He's just writing stuff, possibly while high, and we have slightly differing views on what your conversation has meant thus far. Let me go through it with you though, since you don't seem to understand his point of view: First CC thought you were scummy, now he thinks you're town. The quote where he says he never thought you were town? He meant before, you know, when he thought you were scummy. What's the deal with you attempting to turn everything we say around on us though? I can't be sure of what CC thinks of you right now, but you've been null-leaning scum for me for ages, including now. Just for clarification: I've (CC) been posting everything, and that one right up there ^ is Wave. We've been talking a lot about Mocsta. I thought he was suspect, then he explained a little, and i thought he wasn't anymore. Then Wave was like "Hey CC, that's probably scum Mocsta brohan" Interesting; I was dead certain I have been dialoguing with Wave this whole time. Until your other half spewed out "totes town" Doesnt matter though: because Im not evaluating who said what. I am evaluating what the hydra said. And that has been quite clear. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 03:51 ShotgunBiceps wrote: Mock - what part of those quotes from CC are scummy? All that shows is that he changed his mind over time, which is completely non-allignment indicative. This is the second really questionable read you're using this game. The first being a buddying read that you justified as legitimate since I used it once in a game I played almost a year ago (and my 2nd normal game to boot). Shotgun; have you been reading the whole conversation or just that final post with a vote? Secondly, what I chose to elucidate clearly demonstrates a mindset that has not changed its mind over time. There has been zero critical thought other than "my brain: something in there". I pressured him for justification and he reciprocates by calling me town/watever. Now they are blaming it on differeing thoughts between the two slots. *Yet, say they have been talking about it themselves in the QT incessantly* ----------------- As for your second comment. I don't know about the buddying read specifically; but you pinged my alarms early on too. So get over yourself. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 03:58 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: A WILD WAVEOFSHADOW ENTERS DA THREAD WHAT WILL MOCSTA DO? FIGHT POKEBALL RUN I FORGET THE OPTIONS I HAVEN'T PLAYED THAT GAME IN YEARS Hes going to sleep. And im very content with where "our" vote is. Regardless; I have said my piece, and laid my out my vote. Won't comment any further till I have had a chance to discuss with my other slot. Night. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 04:02 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Then you quoted something completely out of context that said you were totes town. No, nothing was out of context. On April 14 2013 03:48 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Mocsta; CC and I have been talking throughout this conversation you've been having with him. On April 14 2013 03:53 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: We've been talking a lot about Mocsta. Whether you are in agreement or not; you both are clearly in sync with each others stance via the active QT discussion regarding MA. So no "totes town" was not taken out of context; and is a direct by product of the on-going dialogue between whoever I was speaking to for the past 2 hrs. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 04:10 ShotgunBiceps wrote: MockArmour, in this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=23#444, you say the present cases don't statisfy you implying you think we are town, since the only cases in the thread at that point was the case on us. How do we ping your alarm if you think we are town? Seriously dude. Im assuming you haven't read the thread, as this has been covered in conversation with Rayn. Short story: That was all GK. I cant answer that for him - so you will just have to wait for him to come online. All I can say is in my opinion, I didn't like the way you guys handled the pursuit of VE. I liked the stuff that came after, and thats why my read changed. I don't see why anything more than that is of importance. Further, I don't think you are confirmed town, or probably town. I said, i dont think you guys are scum. And I used a heuristic based on what I deem to be town Hapa play. There is no corollary that, that deems you as town. FULL STOP. I will admit that personally, I thought the heuristic to call Wave cheese based on the "arousal" post was stupid though. Anyways, night. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 04:12 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 04:10 MockArmor wrote: No, nothing was out of context. Whether you are in agreement or not; you both are clearly in sync with each others stance via the active QT discussion regarding MA. So no "totes town" was not taken out of context; and is a direct by product of the on-going dialogue between whoever I was speaking to for the past 2 hrs. Can you not read? On April 14 2013 03:19 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Lol I'm so high. CC420... Anyway, Mocsta, you're making it really black and white; like I thought you were totes scum and now I think you're totes town. In other words, that's what you're making it look like. Yeah ok, i understand your point regarding context. Im going to bed; will review once GK has had a look. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 06:36 FiveTouch wrote: I would add that if the town nuke is outside of marv/VE, Palmar/DP, and sand/syllo, then it's actually extremely likely they'd be able to shoot tomorrow. ~marv Marv dear. I'm a simple minded man, and trying to wrap my ahead around this. Please assist. Does the above suggest that is it extremely likely that "FT" / "JM" / "SLJ" are town. As, I can not wrap my head around why else they would be valid NK targets worthy of discussion so early into Day1. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
I believe you said something about "waiting" for me? I'm here, so fire away. Your entire case for MockArmor being scum was for "shifting our read on Hapa from scum to town," or something like that. In reality I made it a point to call out Hapa for what I perceived as buddying with potential scum motive. What caught my eye is as town Hapa must have more justification for his read. The way he thought you were town with such little justification didn't make sense to me from a town persepective. Hapa then satisfactorily justified his townread to me. I had been through the rest of his filter and seen nothing else that was suspicious. So with that clarification, I moved on. Sure an FOS is a flimsier version of an actual vote, but what I was pursuing was one suspicious point. It wasn't enough to vote him for without further investigation. Like what were you expecting? Right after my exchange with Hapa I'd be like, "Before I thought you were totes scum (which wasn't the case), now I think you're totes town (Which isn't the case either. Definitely leaning town on Hapa, but he's nowhere near "confirmed town" to me or anything...). Didn't you criticize my counterpart for the exact same thing?: On April 14 2013 03:19 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Lol I'm so high. CC420... Anyway, Mocsta, you're making it really black and white; like I thought you were totes scum and now I think you're totes town. So here's a question for you: Would you care to "expound" on this Rayne read of yours? Plenty of time has past and from what I've seen you've still been caught up on your exchange with Mocsta. I understand to some extent "waiting" for people like me, but why even bother posting if you're not going to help contribute meaningfully to discussion? More on that in a little bit... Posting the quote as a reminder: On April 14 2013 02:43 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: I am suggesting that scum tend to re-evaluate their 'reads' very quickly. Reading your filter it seemed like 'shit, Hapa totes suspicious", then a post or two later was 'nah, Hapa probs town". I think you've cleared it up nicely, however. In terms of Raynmaster, he seems to jump on things really quickly. In your discourse with him (fuck, did I just use the word discourse?) I believe he came off scummier. Will expound in time. -GK | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 04:54 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: What is a scum agenda before the 24h mark of a game? I've never been scum so I'm not really sure. Can anyone enlighten me? Comments like this. Like maybe in a normal mafia game where no one can communicate with each other could I see this, but in a hydra game where you have a buddy to tell you this shit there's NO EXCUSE for shitting up the thread with this. You then go on to post even more meaningless crap that isn't scumhunting.: On April 14 2013 10:48 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: lol I will do whatever the fuck I want. Besides the shitting up the thread part is usually on Mocsta's head, not mine. I want GK. Do you realize how scummy it sounds when you ask me to not to pressure my scumread? Hi there. I'm WaveofCheesecake. Oh darn my scumread's not here. Need to keep waiting for him instead of expounding on Rayne who I've conveniently forgotten... THERE'S NO SCUMHUNTING HERE. This was actually done twice in quick succession. Only like a few minutes prior.: On April 14 2013 10:43 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: lolwut? First of all that 'scumslip' was CC, not me. Second of all, wut? Third of all, oh boy, I get to look forward to Geript's shit scum reads on me all game long again that are based on absolutely nothing JUST for a change of pace from like, every other game I've been in with him. Does Yamato know you voted me? Trust me geript, my heart is in it as much as it can be right now. GK isn't back so there's nothing for me to continue to push atm but I will. Good to see you've put a lot of effort into your read on me though. Like, you know, maybe pursue Rayne or some of those other scumreads you must have while you wait? You're doing a darn good job of remaining active in thread while not contributing much of anything except maybe a few points here and there in your own defense... Instead, let's make more pointless posts.: O rly? Clearly you're town. Because you're like SO acting like it... If you plan on convincing us you're town you'd better start actually pushing cases and scumreads. Instead of shitting up thread and "waiting" on people, be it your partner or a scumread. There's three scum right now, and you should have no problem posting stuff without first consulting your partner, so there's like zero reason why as town you should feel compelled to behave as you guys are right now. | ||
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Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 13:18 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: [/b]If you feel so strongly about this; why have you not pursued the giant fucking summary post originator?You don't want me shitting up the thread? Posting random reads on other people like that giant fucking summary post seems a lot shittier to me than what I've been doing, and I don't feel like making random reads/lists just because someone doesn't feel I've done enough to them. Instead you continue to make posts saying: Im playing with my dick in the thread, because GK isn't here. As GK said, there are 3 scum in the game. OK, you have us as a scum read, awesome. If we are not present; why are you not trying to put effort into looking for the other 2. Further, so it is CC who has a scum read on Rayn; no worries, I can wait for that. What is *your* opinion on Rayn. (moc) | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 14:14 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: I am still waiting for specifically what is your problem. It has been expressed quite clearly where our transition of thought with Hapa occurred. You are the one who has made no effort to quantify your question in a manner which will elicit the response you ?seek?.Actually fuck it, I'll post the short form without proof atm; that'll have to be enough for now. If my meta reads are still shit then they're shit but that's why I wanted to hear more from GK---I'm not 100% cemented on my scumread/meta read and I was hoping GK could confirm in for me one way or another, which it hasn't. In short, two things. At the time of be making my meta case, Mocsta had already posted a ton without calling anyone scummy; just making careful posts and not giving a solid read on anyone. This is indicative of his early game scum play from both NMM 37 and Hydra I. As town he throws out reads left and right constantly and ACTUALLY MAKES CASES to follow up with his reads and endless lines of questioning, which he hasn't done here. He votes for us here without actually even calling us scum---obviously amounts to the same thing but rubs me the wrong way. This is plain silly, and indicative of someone making a lazy read by request.I came into the thread, saying how shit it is. People were too emotional; and too spammy. So, you are calling me scum for trying to bring the thread back to a modicum of decency. Is that correct? Further, my lines of questions, whether to Rayn, yourself, or whoever; clearly indicate a mindset attempting to figure out alignments. Another random interesting meta tidbit to mention is Mocsta often enters a thread with much fanfare and hysteria, regardless of alignment (though MORE likely to do so as town.) So you have elucidated that Mocsta, whether town or scum, is more than capable of being "loud". Considering none of the examples above correlate with a "serious" Mocsta; where is the connection for this to be scum. Why are you trying so hard to meld together "tells" as purely indicative of scum; and not actually trying to devine a genuine alignment - that considers town or scum motivation?Hydra mini I (scum) - was there when the game started, lots of trolling, lots of joking around. The Game (town) - replaced sandro after a day or so, lots of joking, calling people scum, whatnot. Nomination (town) - jovial lighthearted posting style, throwing votes and shit around at game entry. NMM 37 (scum) - Enters the thread with lighthearted tone and RNG fluff. This game he was not around when the game started, and you'll notice he did NOT joke around at all, rather he got supersrs right from the get-go. I believe this is because entering a game late as scum, he missed the 'permissible first few hours joking-around period' and doesn't want to start fooling around when people are actually having discussion for fear he will look scummy for trying to derail. NOTE: He had NO problem joking around in the middle of The Game when he entered because he was town and had no reason to be afraid or look guilty. This is already debunked by my response above; as you immediately jump to a scum conclusion.One fact you seem to not have incorporated in any of your heuristics is that this game is a HYDRA. Thus, I, nor many of the others will be posting to our prototypical meta. We have someone else to bounce our reads off / discuss thread sentiment etc. This *should* allow for a much more levle-headed, critical thinking playstyle. The items you accuse me of above; in which you instantly force yourself to scum conclusions. Ironically I believe point out a mindset much more indicative of tonie rationalisation and thought. Make of this case what you will for now. I might be able to expand on it further with better proof (especially since people are unlikely to go sifting through his meta themselves). CC was asking me to post this much earlier when the discussion was happening but I didn't want to derail trying to learn what I could at the time. I figure it's better out than in right now especially given thread sentiment. I'm going to attempt to study then go to bed but I might be able to check back on the thread a couple more times. Whilst I appreciate the effort to take acountability.This "case" is extremely weak; and does not read with the conviction of someone who has critically thought about the player in question. CC; I still wait your feedback on Raynmaster. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 14 2013 18:30 raynmaster wrote: I feel that MA is misinterpreting WoC's push on him and that WoC looks like he wants to find out MA's alignment but MA isnt doing any of that sort himself. He is so closed up and prickly. No jokes and shit. Im curious about how this conclusion was derived. Im not going to argue you about WoC trying to ascertain MA alignment. - That is your opinion. But I would like to know why you are confident stating I was not trying to ascertain WoC alignment. Your last sentence, gives me the impression you concur with WoC meta on me; whereby, serious Mocsta indicates scum. Correct? | ||
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On April 14 2013 20:11 raynmaster wrote: Oats, you are better than this. Why are you trying to debate with me the contents of "Incognito "How to play mafia" guide. Is this truly the best argument you can mount. Mocsta, what is your infatuation with saying how something could be townie as well? Practically everything a townie posts can be construed as scummy and practically everything a scum posts can be construed as townie. That is basically the basis for your argument, 'why do you not look at the town perspective???'. Why dont you tell us the town perspective? You still didnt answer why townies want to withhold reads btw. I did sir.http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=30#589 It is not my concern if you disagree. A townie does need to be transparent; but there is also "too much of a good thing". When I want my scum reads to be known; they will be known. As was the case with WoC. At no point did MA allude to lurking until lynch deadline to feign interest and accountability. So your point is a personal issue of "how to play" the early game. Agreeing with you, or disagreeing with you on personal ideals such as the above is *only* indicative of a null alignment. Your basis is moot. | ||
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You asked.. Do i have reads. I said yes I do. You then asked me to update the MA read on Hapa, which I happily obliged. The questions were answered in its entirety. Stop shitting up the thread; your counterpart asked a stupid question, and got a stupid answer. I will give out my reads when I want to. Syllo gave a similar response earlier, and you didnt try to lambaste him for it. P.S. Im still waiting for Raynpelikoneet to respond to my questions from last night. | ||
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Im saying this one last time. Your qualm is due to differing paradigms in how to play. I disagree with you; you disagree with me. Whatever, im not commenting on this anymore. If you want to continue to call me scum; man up and build a real case. | ||
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On April 14 2013 21:46 John Matrix wrote: What did you have in mind.Also I want MA to discuss things with me. I find it strange they havn't interacted with me at all really. -DP | ||
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On April 14 2013 22:08 raynmaster wrote: The outstanding question is here:MA: Does that answer your question aswell? If not, could you repost the actual question so i can answer it? Maybe i'm blind but i can't find anything other that's directed to me in your filter. /rayn http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=29#566 | ||
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No I'm accusing you of trying to contribute in the thread without providing accountability. This is because your entire dialogue with your "scum read" is subject to change pending on discussion with oats. That's bullshit. Full stop. Further, the exchange with *your/raynpeli* scum read, five touch. Does not even read as if you are talking to someone you are suspicious of. Thirdly. Let's pretend you were genuinely suspicious of five touch. Why the need to consult with oats regarding your scum read. You should be engaging and probing fiveotuch as much as you can. Instead you are reaponding to questions he asking of you. In addition to hiding all accountability behind oats. This is scummy shit, and again the whole exchange does not read to me as if you are talking to a scum read. | ||
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On April 15 2013 03:51 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Hey guys. I'm attempting to catch up with the thread here but I'm casting in 10 minutes so I may not make it back in time for deadline if it goes 3 games. For now, going to follow thread sentiment and vote FMB. I'm sorry I can't give much more than this atm, hopefully he flips red. At the very least CC and I at least discussed him a little;' I know I personally thought his argument about how MA wasn't pushing a scum agenda was kinda stupid (it's somewhere back in my filter I think). If I get back with enough time before deadline I'll read into it more critically but this is it for now. ##Vote: FondleMyButtocks I mean, this guy hasn't really made any cases, pops in and says "Hi guys! I'll vote for the leader. Kthx bye!" He says nothing of what he thinks about FMB here. He just throws down a vote and afks... He doesn't followup at all on his reads on Rayne or myself... This guy shows no real investment in the game... I mean FMB's definitely scummy looking, but at its heart it feels more like a lurker lynch than anything else... And lurker lynches are stupidly easy for scum to get behind without real fallout later. It just doesn't make sense to me in a game where we could hypothetically have day 2 LYLO that we're pretty much policy lurker lynching someone. | ||
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This is GK. In case you were wondering. my counterpart did all the Rayne pressuring yesterday. Mocsta said he probably won't be back before the deadline. However, I will be here for it and am ready to move our vote for consolidation if need be. | ||
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##Vote: Raynmaster We've had a scumread on the guy for a while. I have no problem changing to him for consolidation (and I'm sure my partner doesn't either). | ||
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On April 15 2013 07:55 ShotgunBiceps wrote: Syllo's words on WoC don't mean anything. Scum give out legitimate town-reads all the time. My best guess is Mock. Spends a ton of time talking about Reyn on Day 1, and does nothing to follow it up or vote him. This is retarded. I was the first person putting the pressure onto Rayn. There are two reasons WoC came in the picture (1) Rayn disappeared for 24hrs; and dsicussing things with Oats is useless/goes no where (2) WoC interjected through my discussions with Rayn to bring up Hapa. That exchange led to me putting a vote onto WoC. And you are retarded if you think there was no follow up. I followed up with Rayn quite explicitly last night before going to bed. GK followed up with a vote. Whether you like it or not, JM is correct. We are essentially confirmed town. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 08:02 ShotgunBiceps wrote: + Show Spoiler + On April 15 2013 07:59 John Matrix wrote: Rayn spent MOST of day one trying to sling shit at mock and you think that doesn't make him likely to be town.? You think oats and rayn would bus all day one? From like the start of the game onwards? 0_o I've seen that happen many times. I was in a scum-team with Jay and Xatalos, and they literally flung shit at each other for DAYS. The important thing was that they never actually committed to lynching each other. So yes I think it's very possible. If this is Hapa talking. Im pretty disappointed in your play this game. But go on continuing that mindset. You are tunneled like just early game. What, because you were in a team that bussed heavily in the past; now all scum teams bus heavily in the past? lol, anyone can pull up a random fact to support a theory. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 08:22 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I'm not calling or treating you as confirmed town because you never reciprocated. Then you are stupid. My filter clearly states I am waiting for Rayn to come back. & 24hrs when he does. I rail him again over the same stuff. BTW, he lynched fucking red. My points were completely valid on him. Read my fucking issues with him again. Its right here. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=29#566 That nailed precisely why he was scum. Why no vote? Because I was waiting for a fucking reply. if i didnt give a shit about it, i wouldnt be saying to oats repeatedly im waiting for rayn Lets show it: + Show Spoiler + On April 14 2013 01:05 MockArmor wrote: ..... I admit you (Oats) gave half a response to question 2. But unfornately its still only half a response. And further, I didn't realise Raynpelikoneet needed a "patsy" to speak on his behalf. On April 14 2013 01:20 MockArmor wrote: Well I wasn't directing the question about Rayn behaviour to you Oats. It was clearly directed to Rayn. Further, his response has been far from satisfactory. He has dodged the core of the matter entirely. I expect this to clear up the differences. .... If you prefer Rayn to continue this discussion, than I suggest you do not reply to this. On April 14 2013 01:43 MockArmor wrote: .... I await Raynpelikoneets response to my outstanding questions. On April 14 2013 13:36 MockArmor wrote: Further, so it is CC who has a scum read on Rayn; no worries, I can wait for that. What is *your* opinion on Rayn. (moc) On April 14 2013 20:02 MockArmor wrote: CC; I still wait your feedback on Raynmaster. On April 14 2013 21:45 MockArmor wrote: P.S. Im still waiting for Raynpelikoneet to respond to my questions from last night. On April 14 2013 21:55 MockArmor wrote: Oats, Im saying this one last time. Your qualm is due to differing paradigms in how to play. I disagree with you; you disagree with me. Whatever, im not commenting on this anymore. If you want to continue to call me scum; man up and build a real case. On April 14 2013 22:08 raynmaster wrote: MA: Does that answer your question aswell? If not, could you repost the actual question so i can answer it? Maybe i'm blind but i can't find anything other that's directed to me in your filter. /rayn On April 14 2013 22:41 MockArmor wrote: The outstanding question is here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406683¤tpage=29#566 On April 14 2013 23:34 MockArmor wrote: raynpeli No I'm accusing you of trying to contribute in the thread without providing accountability. This is because your entire dialogue with your "scum read" is subject to change pending on discussion with oats. That's bullshit. Full stop. Further, the exchange with *your/raynpeli* scum read, five touch. Does not even read as if you are talking to someone you are suspicious of. Thirdly. Let's pretend you were genuinely suspicious of five touch. Why the need to consult with oats regarding your scum read. You should be engaging and probing fiveotuch as much as you can. Instead you are reaponding to questions he asking of you. In addition to hiding all accountability behind oats. This is scummy shit, and again the whole exchange does not read to me as if you are talking to a scum read. The other important take of this is WaveOfCheese This is how it went down. When I came back to the game; i gave GK my list of reads. He agreed with them. Rayn and Wave were our top 2. This is why I chased Rayn mid cycle. The reason I had no issues swapping gears to Wave is because *HE INTERJECTED* our dialogue with Rayn to throw shit on us. I took it as a chainsaw defense of his scum buddy. Because Raynpeli disappeared, i continued with Oats. And yes, as you know, town mocsta has no problem pressuring every fcuking person he thinks he scummy. Scum Mocsta stays on one fuckn person and tunnels. Hence, going back to the important take is WaveofShadow dropping that CC has a scum read on Rayn, and waiting for him to drop it. But WoC never does this. On April 14 2013 02:35 MockArmor wrote: Lastly, I am still waiting for Rayn to reply back. Dialogue onus is currently on him. What do you make of Rayn; since you seem to be carrying his torch. - I do believe he was the one that questioned me originally regarding Hapa, ironically telling me we had voted him; when in fact it was just an FoS. On April 14 2013 02:43 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: I am suggesting that scum tend to re-evaluate their 'reads' very quickly. Reading your filter it seemed like 'shit, Hapa totes suspicious", then a post or two later was 'nah, Hapa probs town". I think you've cleared it up nicely, however. In terms of Raynmaster, he seems to jump on things really quickly. In your discourse with him (fuck, did I just use the word discourse?) I believe he came off scummier. Will expound in time. On April 14 2013 13:36 MockArmor wrote: Further, so it is CC who has a scum read on Rayn; no worries, I can wait for that. What is *your* opinion on Rayn. (moc) On April 14 2013 20:02 MockArmor wrote: CC; I still wait your feedback on Raynmaster. We never get anything; yet, WoC has been in the thread throughout this time. With the votes, this is what we get: On April 15 2013 06:26 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: ##unvote vote: Raynmaster Because sheeping on phone at work. Approved by CC. Do it up. On April 15 2013 06:27 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: ##Unvote + Show Spoiler + Alright 30 min to go, cast only went 2 games. Read the thread, Geript, (because I'm assuming it's you who's going on about my meta from The Game etc) if you'd look at my meta from a more recent game than that, Ego Mini, you'll see that I will not be flailing around anymore when a town is looking to mislynch me. I was around for that in Ego and played it differently than I have and it worked out; in this game I'm barely even around and so don't even have the time to go crazy trying to prevent a mislynch onto us, even IF I wanted to. I believe CC will be back shortly after deadline so hopefully we can get some of the questions people have for us answered then and whatnot. Now as far as today's lynch goes, is it Rayn/Oats? Because I remember finding him somewhat towny during my last read of him; I don't know what CC thinks. On April 15 2013 06:35 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: Ugh CC phoneposting so terror. Didn't mean to undo CC's vote, that was supposed to be an unvote for FMB. ##Vote: RaynMaster Trying to coordinate this game has been hell so far, I'm going to have to trust him on this. I would have preferred it InsertSmurfNuke was launched right here folks. Anyone else have a nuke?  | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 08:30 Hapahauli wrote: Oh don't give me that crap. You are far from confirmed town, since you never actually tried to get Rayn lynched. I have yet to read whatever fight with him in detail, so perhaps there's something townie in that, but don't trump up your contributions. pfft. Well if you havnt put the time in to read the interactoins of the game with the commitment they deserve; dont add your 2c. All you serve to do is potentially influence others; when you yourself have not formed an honest opinion. And yes, if you have yet to read in detail; it is not an honest opinion. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 08:36 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Your friendly neighborhood confirmed town Geript would like to make a public announcement reminding plays that WoS had a mysterious scum read on rain the he never followed up on. Arent we in sync. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 08:53 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: There's nothing to try. I'm just popping in to post a little because I have to study and I don't know when CC is coming back; I figured he'd be around by now to pick up the slack a little. Do I need to make the same post I made to Raynmaster? Which was specifically why I had a scum read on him... On April 14 2013 00:26 MockArmor wrote: If you are incapable of contributing to the thread, due to <redacted> needing to reference with your partner in general. Why post in the first place? Before trying to bullshit me: keep in mind, I was scum in the last Hydra game. Henceforth why I agreed in full with the Syllo quote, which I will post for you one more time. On April 13 2013 18:31 SamuelLJackson wrote: In a hydra format players should be more confident in sharing their thoughts and lacking the need to comment on irrelevant things as they can discuss things with their partner. Meanwhile mafia still feels the pressure of posting.. P.S. Im not quoting this post, because Syllo saying it makes it valid. The point is. You have nothing to add value with, and are incessatnly saying I have to study; and have to wait for CC.Im quoting it because he said it in better words than I. I get that a townie might be compelled to enter the thread and give a defense, but you arent doing that. You are coming in, and trying to buy time; dangling the carrot of CC. P.S. Hapa made an ironic statement prior. He said, if you guys were scum, wouldnt CC do the heavy lifting. Its ironic, because most of the meaningful convo this game from your filter is from CC. Most of your contributions are making joke posts; or trying to buy time. Both are heavily uncharacteristic of WoS town play. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 09:03 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Moc, my problems with you is that I don't get that rabid dog foaming at the mouth feeling in you scumhunting. In the game, I could see and feel it such that once you latched onto me I knew I was fucked. I'm also not getting that Moclogic TM but that's less important. Care to explain? Yeah; already explained it. This is a hydra, typical meta doesnt apply. My counterpart is a completely opposite character to me; so we have a lot of synergy. For example; he gives me a lot more patience in my play, and also considers different heuristics. I have found our back n forth quite useful. But as for why I am not a rabid dog. It is because of the PYP game. I made a post in that game speaking of frustration; so trying to change a few things up. The game is live, so I can't really expand on anything. Regardless; rabid dog is attacking anything that moves that I don't like. Im still trying to approach scum with the same tenacity and fervor; just apply a more reserved targeting method. People can laugh as much as they want, that the dialogue with Rayn was useless. But it was far from it. That they completely tried to side step the argument each and every time, indicated that they were caught: hook, line and sinker. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 09:04 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: You're making a big deal of nothing. It's not waiting to discuss with CC, it's waiting for CC to play the game because right now I can't. I'll try to pop in later. ? If you cant play right now.. why are you posting? As I said, I get a townie trying to save their skin. I have been there done that. By corollary I would also expect you to be making defenses and providing alternatives. Unfortunately, none of this is happening. Instead, you are saying repeatedly "please wait for CC, because I am busy". Yes, I believe that is true; I just can not wrap my head around why you need to state this. It is night cycle, and you can not be lynched or 72hours. It feels like premature insecurity - post scum lynch. ============= With the meta read on me, I am conflicted. On one hand: The meta read was obviously terrible (which is odd why Drazerk saw value in it). Geript points I think are substantial and valid. - WoS does not typically endorse meta cases / let alone create them. On the other hand: WoS has played a fair few games with me; and each and every game has called me scum ironically citing my behaviour as the crux. So even though he doesnt like meta cases (i.e. searching through back logs of post history) he does have a track record of calling me scum due to "meta" tendencies Hence, for me, that case creation itself is null.. ============= The problem then becomes, you created it *only* because you were requested to substantiate your scum read of MA. I think this combined, with your incessant desire to say "wait for CC" and things like throwing shit on MA when we were pressuring Rayn - are things I do not like in your play and make me still willing to vote you come Day2. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 09:24 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I only remember 1 'meta' case he made on you, that was around D3 in LX and iirc moreso based on behavior with 'meta' thrown in. This was all out meta IMO. [fluff] Last I will speak of this. Every game I played with (town) him, he thinks Im scum. Including the newbies. This is the first I recall he actually made a case of it. Typically he just makes a couple dot points to justify why he is calling me out. But whatevers; even with the meta case as null; "he" specifically is still looking terrible. CC im not so sure of; hes not remnding me of Nomination; and I never read his most recent scum game ?Noir?. I really thought I was talking to Wave the other night, so Im still wrapping my head around that. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 12:53 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: well i think hes town. confirmed in my brain. i actually have zero justification for this gutread other than gut. love, cc Gutreads are normally based off something. Otherwise just be honest with us and tell us it's something you pulled out of your arse. If you're going to pop in here, give us some actual reasoning for your reads. ~GK | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
The two ppl that pushed Rayn hard were MockArmor via pressure + JohnMatrix via case. We are both confirmed town. The only thing making you confirmed anything is the nuke. But if that hits town, we are going to have start considering the option of goon/nuke/nuke. As for SB, they are likely town; but far from confirmed. FT; i dont understand the read at all. In my opinion Marv has shown much restraint this game; a trait I am not used to seeing in his play. Its got nothing to do with not being a town leader. Its got to do with being lazy with references etc. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 13:22 WaveOfCheesecake wrote: goon nuke nuke... mock420... Is this cc or WoS are you calling me and vivax420 scum? | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 13:51 John Matrix wrote: Thats the best quote hahahah. If Marv is scum; thats such a hillarious truth. I think its a valid slip anyways. Town are concerned about mislynching town, but certainly not about "protecting" town.. Scum on the other hand, are trying to protect the "brotherhood". | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 16:33 SamuelLJackson wrote: [/red]Well in fairness, we would firstly need content to judge.No it does not, unless you think I'm lying about being asleep and about Sandro's dinner (I can assure you I am not). So just to keep record, so far the reasons for suspecting me have amounted to not understanding timezones, reading comprehension issues and me being slightly less active than usual. []redNot a single content based reason has been suggested by anyone. But keep pretending as if any of you had a reason for nuking me day 1 | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 16:33 SamuelLJackson wrote: Well in fairness, we would firstly need content to judge.No it does not, unless you think I'm lying about being asleep and about Sandro's dinner (I can assure you I am not). So just to keep record, so far the reasons for suspecting me have amounted to not understanding timezones, reading comprehension issues and me being slightly less active than usual. Not a single content based reason has been suggested by anyone. But keep pretending as if any of you had a reason for nuking me day 1 EBWOP | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 15 2013 16:56 SamuelLJackson wrote: False, I presented content based reasons for the lynch and someone even had noticed the same things (mockarmor). Perhaps that was your reason for finding him suspicious, but it was not mine. Palmar hasn't accused me of anything, just said that I'm "scum". How do you propose I respond to that? Yes, though you would have been aware we were deeply entrenched with other scum pursuits; you still decided to throw that back at MA as suspicious. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
Question. If kush is renowned for early hard bussing. Why are we giving them credit for pushing Ryan early on? I didn't have a scum read on Rayn until he was too scared to post thoughts on Marv without talking to oats... Whereas vivax seemed to know very early on in the piece and didn't lock down... Also I'm not sure why so much weight is give. On the qt comment. Is it not something all of us can do? Or are we meant to be treating them as so stupid it was a town slip? I'm pretty sure vivax is better than that. And kush whilst a troll seems to be better than that too. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
They've had their chance to cooperate, and they haven't. They're scummy as fuck, and it's time for them to go. Now let's please focus on people that are actually playing this game. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
And that's why there was no ued For the smart ones out there. I suggested possibility of second town nuke yesterday. Snb wanted to die, and we had the means to ensure town would keep scum hunting on the chance that they are town martyring. I would like opinions on vivax and the comments I made a few posts up. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
Wave u gots to stop the tunnel on me brodooski. Oats, I love the comment in the scum qt. IMA gonna argue with mocsta, cos its what I do. Sigh. | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
That aristocratic post hahha, wasn't gk | ||
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MockArmor
Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 16 2013 11:57 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont know man, its way too easy to argue convincingly with you. It didn't convince me though U were just lucky WOC intervened. I really thought they tried to chainsaw me. I would have nuked u day1 from that post of Ryan I attacked him, but gk asked ,e to hold back | ||
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