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Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 10 2013 12:41 GMT
#1561
On April 10 2013 21:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 10 2013 12:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn and Tunkeg scummy bros.

I dont know if you want me to comment on your Palmar case rayn, or if you would rather wait for Palmar. But yeah that case does not make me think that Palmar is scum, and with Tunkeg sheeping off it, you both scum bro.

Show nested quote +
On April 10 2013 21:20 Oatsmaster wrote:
For once a vigi doesnt shoot town haha.

I have no fucking clue what I think is scum.

I read Prp's and rayns filter
Prp, looks actually helpful recently, and not a FUCKING IDIOT.

Rayn too, after he stopped his shennanis is posting good things.

WHY MAFIA SO HAR?D???


What made you change your mind when nothing besides the flip really happened between these posts?


I read your filter?

I still think your case is bad, but townie bad, not scummy bad.
No gg, No skill.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 12:52 GMT
#1562
I don't think the case is bad but i might be wrong at least now when Tunkeg flipped red. Palmar should start doing something on his own rather than blindly sheeping marv. At least i kept him alive if he is town. :D

WoS who do you want to lynch and why?
table for two on a tv tray
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
April 10 2013 13:27 GMT
#1563
I got roleblocked.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
April 10 2013 13:27 GMT
#1564
will talk later, good shot.
Computer says mafia
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
April 10 2013 13:33 GMT
#1565
btw just to throw it out there, I did not say anything after last night but reyn's case on me I was almost 100% sure he's town, even if it's wrong it's just way too much effort for him to be scum, consequently Tunkeg's agreement was so terrible it amounted to a scumclaim.
Computer says mafia
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9647 Posts
April 10 2013 13:50 GMT
#1566
On April 10 2013 09:29 iamperfection wrote:
prplhz why should we not kill you?

This is a serious question.

I ask again
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
Palmar
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Iceland22634 Posts
April 10 2013 14:12 GMT
#1567
there's 7 people alive, 6v1.

assuming the vigilante isn't 1-shot, we probably should not shoot again, the reason simply being we have 2 mislynches right now (unless the mafia has a vigilante too)

assuming 2 mislynches, it'll be 4v1 tomorrow (lynch and night kill), 2v1 on the day after that.

so we do have some space to work with.

I actually think Oats might be the best lynch today.
Computer says mafia
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 14:18 GMT
#1568
I read WoS / Tunkeg filters again and i'm strating to have doubts on WoS..
Palmar do you think Tunkeg (and Axle) would push WoS they way they did if they were the scumteam?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 14:21 GMT
#1569
And why would Oats say me / prplhz are both town in his opinion if he was scum?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 14:22 GMT
#1570
I mean he is leaving no room for himself and you can't just count on iamp/Palmar/DP mislynchin THREE times in a row.
table for two on a tv tray
Tunkeg
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Norway1235 Posts
April 10 2013 14:27 GMT
#1571
GG
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 14:28 GMT
#1572
Oats, can you point out some things you refer as "good things" in my filter?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 14:43 GMT
#1573
If anyone is a survivor they should claim now.
table for two on a tv tray
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 10 2013 14:48 GMT
#1574
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 10 2013 01:31 raynpelikoneet wrote:
This is how Palmar starts the game:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 05 2013 08:58 Palmar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 08:55 sciberbia wrote:
Hi everyone! I can't wait to get started. This player list is awesome.


I say we lynch you on day one. How would you like that?

##Vote sciberbia

Not likely uncharacteristic to him, but then, the follow up is this:
- He is more concerned about marv's read on him than pushing his lynch.
- The only thing he is trying to figure out anything about anyone is when he asks Oats/iamp about sci. No follow up.
_________

Then he comes in with this post:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 06 2013 00:20 Palmar wrote:
honestly:

marv: strange things, but seems to be at least trying. I don't think I'll push for his day 1 lynch, but it's annoying that he doesn't just start saying shit that matters and maybe be more useful. I've noted to self/thread twice that he has said things I would not entirely expect of him, but neither makes him definite scum.

see here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=6#119
and here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=13#257

Ace: complete and utter null, he's a good lynch but doesn't need to be discussed until we're closing in on the lynch. If we default to a lurker from where we are now it's a toss-up between him and Tunkeg, and I think I'd rather kill Ace. Nothing in Ace's filter says anything about his alignment (good or bad).

iamperfection: I really don't know, he seemed genuinely mad that I'm poking him, but his ridiculous zeal in what is essentially a perfectly safe lurker lynch still raises some bells for me. I don't know really.

sciberbia: made a generic post and hasn't said anything ever since. I might be willing to lynch this guy based on what has happened in the game so far and if I had to make a decision right now.

Tunkeg: lurker, nothing to say.

Axlegreaser: I can't read these kind of people, so i'll mostly leave it to others. I'd say leaning town, but honestly I'm terrible at telling what strange posters are up to, I ignore Chez every game I play with him, and while Axle is more coherent than that, I really don't know.

prplhz: being his useless self on day 1. He did reach the same conclusion about iamperfection's push on Ace, and he did it before me, I think.

DP: NOT READING YOUR POSTS LOL

reyn: I don't know this guy well enough yet, so I'll just paint him tentative town right now for calling me bad. he's spamming in a very useless way. But at least he's spamming

Oats: NOT READING YOUR SHIT EITHER

WoS: his last post here was slightly more townie than everything else he's said. He too is not a bad day 1 lynch I think. I need to hear more from this guy and I know literally nothing about him. His "glad I rolled town" seems sooo fake, but then again, it's so awful that it's hard to think mafia would be stupid enough to do it. Whatever, leaning scum, I guess...



This is very uncharacteristic from Palmar. Every read ends with "i don't know" or "whatever, i guess scum". Normally Palmar pushes his early D1 read hard and want's other people's opinions about it. Here he is throwing out a list of "meh" reads.
_________

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 06 2013 19:30 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Sciberbia

I think this is the direction I want to go in.

After ~20 hours and a couple of useless posts that say nothing he goes back to this.
When Tunkeg asked for reasoning, he says this:
-"I really don't think it's reasonable to push oats at the moment." Cool, Palmar's opinion about Oats is "
Oats: NOT READING YOUR SHIT EITHER". So it's not reasonable to question a player you are not even reading.
- "Also sciberbia has a few of those indirect question things I don't really like, I mentioned it in my first post against him, this validation seeking thing." Yeah, Palmar thinks sciberbia is the best lynch at the moment. Funny, because he hasn't interacted with sciberbia even once. He only asked iamp/Oats about him. Yeah, Oats, whose posts he is not even reading...
_________

The he votes for WoS, but after that tells marv he thinks sciberbia is a better candidate.
_________

Back to sciberbia with "something about his defense of WoS just looks strange to me".
_________

Some voteswitching between Ace / sciberbia with nothing new.
_________

Here's when the fun starts. Palmar votes for Ace:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 05:12 Palmar wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Ace


Okay let's do this.

(1)Also if we lynch him he's a liar and we must lynch all liars, since he said this town wouldn't lynch a veteran player.

(2)And finally there are multiple things I find strange about him, just nothing I can say is conclusively scummy. But he is focusing on silly secret tactics, not giving much opinion on who to lynch or trying to push his lynch. He is not attempting to take any kind of a leadership role, and wanting to rather just weigh in here and there.

(3)If I hadn't seen Ace be a useless shit at town before I'd call him scum, but I'm not sure.

whatever #yolo let's kill ace.

1) This is ridiculous reasoning.
2) Multiple strange things that are not conclusively scummy.
3) Says Ace plays like this as town.

After this he isn't interested in what Ace says. He just wants people to vote for Ace.

After this some people say they think Ace is town and start a lynch on Axle.

This is the votecount atm:
sciberbia (1): raynpelikoneet
WaveofShadow (3): Tunkeg, prplhz, AxleGreaser
marvellosity (1): Ace
Ace (4): marvellosity, WaveofShadow, Oatsmaster, Palmar
AxleGreaser (3): DarthPunk, sciberbia, iamperfection

Then marv asks Palmar's opinion on Ace. Palmar does not give opinion about Ace but instead:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 08:36 Palmar wrote:
I don't want to lynch Axle, if that's the alternative.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 08:36 Palmar wrote:
He looks good marv, I really don't know. can we lynch the host since I have a town read on everyone? What do you say Axle?

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 08:38 Palmar wrote:
to clarify, by good I mean less bad than he used to.

and since I have no clue who is scum whatever.

I just want to lynch someone and I don't want it to be axle.

Sciberbia, Ace, prplhz, reyn, WoS, marv are all fine by me.

- Axle looks good, can lynch into the list of some random people.
- Next thing he does is he narrows the list to Ace/scib.

After this post me & prplhz clearly imply that we are supporting Axle lynch over Ace. prplhz even asks Palmar why does he not want to lynch Axle. Ace is sure going to vote for Axle over himself anyways.

Then Palmar just switches his vote on Axle:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 08:48 Palmar wrote:
I think you can possibly be scum, I think everyone else there except marv is more likely to flip.

But okay, mostly because I cannot stay up tonight I need to wake up tomorrow, let's just lynch Axle. At least it rids me of a person that I don't know how to read. I'd give this lynch about 17% chance of success.

##unvote
##vote AxleGreaser

"I don't care, let's just lynch someone".

Then there is this masterpiece:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 08:56 Palmar wrote:
man I just read Axle's filter, maybe he is scum. Increased chances of success to around 32%

No reasoning why Axle might be scum now. Also note that Palmar has doubleposted 3 minutes before this post. THERE IS NO FUCKING WAY HE READ THE FILTER IN 3 MINUTES! Ffs Axle's post were really hard to read, it took me 3 minutes to read one post of his.

TLDR;
- There is nothing in Palmar's play that shows that he has given shit about anything in this game.
- His strange "i'll give reads about all the people" is really uncharacteristic for him, usually he pushes his strongest scumread and tries to convince other people to lynch that guy.
- Why the fuck is he continuosly asking marv/Ace about their read on him? Normally Palmar declares himself as town and that's it. Everyone who disagrees is bad/scum.
- "Pushes" Ace lynch with reasoning that points Ace being more likely town than scum (rofl).
- Doesn't even try to figure out if Ace is scum/town when he is unsure of him.
- Switches to Axle when there is a lot of people who are likely to vote for Axle over Ace. No reasoning, read Axle's filter in 3 minutes and suddenly Axle goes from looking good -> maybe scum.

Cool story bro. Lynch Palmar D3.

On April 08 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 22:01 marvellosity wrote:
On April 08 2013 21:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Because i actually thought Ace's responses to me and other players were good enough. I do not think you or Palmar either look very townie at all. You both were opposing the Axle lynch at first (i know this does not mean Ace is town and you are 100% wrong) but it does not definitely make you look more townie. Hell Palmar even said he wanted to lynch Ace/sciberbia and Axle is a very bad lynch, and some time later he just forgot why Axle looked good and voted for him "just to kill someone".

This is why in my opinion you look very bad: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=58#1146

Your reasons for Axle not being mafia (of whatever you are trying to say there, i don't even get it) are really horrible. His voting behaviour regarding scib/WoS was not a townie behaviour, and you quote some random posts that "you like" with no further explanations.

I don't care if i look worse or better than anyone. And you still failed to explain why prplhz looks better than me. I don't like Tunkeg/prplhz either.


Both Palmar and iamp think I look clearly town, they can't both be my scumbuddies, right? ^^

I don't think iamp thinks you look very town. And Palmar seeing you as town has nothing to do with who your scumbuddies are if you are scum. Townies see scum as town quite often. And you are clearly not a bad scumplayers as far as i remember from the games i have followed.

I can't understand why everone thinks Palmar is town because i am not just seeing it. Is it because he agreed with you on Ace? Or what, i just don't see it.

Show nested quote +
What you think of that Tunkeg stuff I just posted?

I don't think Tunkeg flip-flopped about no-lynch. His last comment could be also seen as frustration as his lynch was not going through. And i think he was pushing his lynch, people just didn't listen (many people were suspicious of WoS at that time and WoS was a leading candidate before people started voting for Ace). I don't know what that makes him. What i do not like is that he brought the no-lynch thing up in the first place, didn't so anything after that, and before that all he did was going after WoS.

Show nested quote +
Palmar is right, btw, if I were mafia I'd never have made myself look bad over the Axle lynch. It's exactly the same thing that happened to me in Fruity, I looked really bad for opposing a yamato lynch Day 1 who flipped mafia, because I was pushing Vivax (mafia) instead. Shit happens.

That's just WIFOM. If you are mafia this is just what you were supposed to do if Palmar is town. You just made a good friend who can't possibly think you would do that as mafia because of meta and shit.

On April 08 2013 23:05 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 22:52 marvellosity wrote:
On April 08 2013 22:47 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar is right, btw, if I were mafia I'd never have made myself look bad over the Axle lynch. It's exactly the same thing that happened to me in Fruity, I looked really bad for opposing a yamato lynch Day 1 who flipped mafia, because I was pushing Vivax (mafia) instead. Shit happens.

That's just WIFOM. If you are mafia this is just what you were supposed to do if Palmar is town. You just made a good friend who can't possibly think you would do that as mafia because of meta and shit.


It's not just WIFOM, because the alternative is that I make myself look good by calling Axle probably mafia and hammering him like the rest, then we wouldn't have to have this conversation at all. That was my alternative if I'm mafia. That's not WIFOM, that's analysing a specific player and the actions he's likely to take, which is what the game's all about.

You say this and then you call people like me mafia when i actually did put effort in killing Axle by voting for him and considering who is more likely to flip red of Ace/Axle. Palmar for example just "couldn't remember why Axle looked town" and just swithced his vote. What makes him look better than me?

And what makes you say the bolded part, expecially when there is the red bolded part. You switching your vote would not make you look more town because of your earlier stance on Axle. I can see you not switching your vote as both town or mafia, i don't just understand why this makes you 100% town in peoples mind.


You are aiming to figure out dudes alignment like marv and Palmar and shizzle.
Also the general feeling of your filter AFTER your first day, feels like red team, therefore feels like you are helping town.(yeah meta not applicable to you bla bla, I THINK IT IS)
No gg, No skill.
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 14:56 GMT
#1575
Isn't that a bit contradictory because before the flip you called me and Tunkeg scumbuddies and when "my scumbuddy" flipped you then call me town? How does that make sense?

Shouldn't that be more proof of me being scum with him for you?
table for two on a tv tray
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 10 2013 15:02 GMT
#1576
On April 10 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Isn't that a bit contradictory because before the flip you called me and Tunkeg scumbuddies and when "my scumbuddy" flipped you then call me town? How does that make sense?

Shouldn't that be more proof of me being scum with him for you?

I told you I actually READ your filter now.
Before that I didnt. That palmar case was so bad. + it was like 2am or later.
No gg, No skill.
iamperfection
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9647 Posts
April 10 2013 15:03 GMT
#1577
its either WaveofShadow or prplhz imo
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=406168&currentpage=78#1551
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 15:03 GMT
#1578
So you just called me scum without nothing to back off your read in hopes that when we would lynch Tunkeg on D3 you could then call me scum?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 15:04 GMT
#1579
Oats what's bad in my Palmar case?
table for two on a tv tray
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43270 Posts
April 10 2013 15:05 GMT
#1580
EBWOP: Point out where am i wrong in this:
TLDR;
- There is nothing in Palmar's play that shows that he has given shit about anything in this game.
- His strange "i'll give reads about all the people" is really uncharacteristic for him, usually he pushes his strongest scumread and tries to convince other people to lynch that guy.
- Why the fuck is he continuosly asking marv/Ace about their read on him? Normally Palmar declares himself as town and that's it. Everyone who disagrees is bad/scum.
- "Pushes" Ace lynch with reasoning that points Ace being more likely town than scum (rofl).
- Doesn't even try to figure out if Ace is scum/town when he is unsure of him.
- Switches to Axle when there is a lot of people who are likely to vote for Axle over Ace. No reasoning, read Axle's filter in 3 minutes and suddenly Axle goes from looking good -> maybe scum.
table for two on a tv tray
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2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
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