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TL Mafia LXI - Page 13

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 22:05 GMT
#3357
On April 30 2013 07:03 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2013 07:03 Ace wrote:
On April 30 2013 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote:
On April 30 2013 06:59 Ace wrote:
On April 30 2013 06:45 VisceraEyes wrote:
I think I'ma check Ace tonight instead. What do you think guys?


you could, but why would you run away from checking Palmar?

I'm not running away from anything - but given everything, I think we should just lynch Palmar to check him. He doesn't even fucking care.


Palmar cares. just in a different way.

Explain.


he only cares about himself.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:21 GMT
#3371
On April 30 2013 08:12 VisceraEyes wrote:
Because I've got to say - I find this extremely odd. Especially considering Cheese's check turned out to be the opposite of what he claims...it just feels like he's buying it way too easily if he really had an issue with our checks to begin with.


Im asking you all to investigate each other tonight to prove yourselves. I haven't taken anything any of you have said at face value.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:23 GMT
#3373
whoa whoa whoa - wait a sec. VE Shiao hasn't flipped yet and Cheese isn't confirmed - how do you know its the opposite of "what I claimed"?

Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:25 GMT
#3376
On April 30 2013 08:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
How does that prove anything to anyone with result-altering roles possible?

scum lost a framer and detectives can't be millers. If all of you are telling the truth the results will match your previous checks. Nothing can alter any of you short of a Scum JOAT. and there are 3 of you - they cant stop everyone if you're all legit.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:27 GMT
#3379
On April 30 2013 08:24 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2013 08:23 Ace wrote:
whoa whoa whoa - wait a sec. VE Shiao hasn't flipped yet and Cheese isn't confirmed - how do you know its the opposite of "what I claimed"?


What HE claimed. He claimed he had a red check on Syl and Syl flipped green...unless I'm missing something?


It did - so how am I "buying this too easily"? I would've just asked you to investigate whoever if I did.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:28 GMT
#3380
On April 30 2013 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 22 2013 20:48 Blazinghand wrote:


Roles and Setup information


Setup Type
This is a semi-closed setup. The game setup only uses roles listed here, but how many of each role exist is a secret.

So again I ask: what will us checking each other do exactly?


The Scum team MIGHT have another framer but even if they did, the framer can't stop 2 people from checking. If all 3 of you are legit Cops it will be proven tonight.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:29 GMT
#3383
VE we've covered this over 12 hours ago - why are you shying away from checking Palmar? You're sanity is not confirmed and you have someone claiming to be a Cop aka can not be miller and you refuse to check him. What gives?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:30 GMT
#3384
On April 30 2013 08:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
And if even one of us is NOT legit, then they could feasilby completely fuck up your plan Ace.


no, they can't lol. this is so simple but sure - explain to me how they can. I'll even allow you the low possibility of them having two framers. Go for it.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:37 GMT
#3389
ack that should read your targets aren't proved because of framer checks.

but here:




Let's suppose, as you posit, that one of the checks is fake. For the sake of argument, let's assume it's Cheese.

What happens when scum frame Palmar?


If Palmar is Scum and framed you should get same back if you're legit PC. Cheese would have to also fake his result and have you show up as Scum.

If he is Town he shows up as Scum and looks different on your check. Cheese would still get the same result showing you as Scum.

Only way cheese doesn't is if he wants to claim you are scum, getting innocent and you rally are. But we would never know who got framed. And being that a framer already died why would we assume there is a second scum framer that would also target Palmar and NOT one of you?
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:38 GMT
#3391
On April 30 2013 08:37 Palmar wrote:
didnt the framer flip?


yes, but VE is asking what happens if there is a second one that can mess up checks tonight.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 29 2013 23:57 GMT
#3396
Ok VE. assume they have another framer for fun. If any 2 of you are telling the truth they can't do anything about it. Even if they altered your check we know that short of his night 1 check being framed and him lying Mr.CC has to be an insane detective. That would let his check go through AND Palmar's. and we know what you have to look like if you are also legit. This all boils down to the Scum team having 2 framers and hoping 2 of you are lying about being detectives just to hope we dont work backwards to figure it out. It would MAYBE save them one day.

Remember - this is with a framer. they are screwed either way.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:07 GMT
#3438
yea VE do as you please. I'm tired of arguing about it and if you're the cop telling the truth you'll do as you please. I still think at least one of you is lying.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:09 GMT
#3440
jesus how the hell does Shiao flipping red mean I'm scum? have you seriously been reading this game
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:12 GMT
#3442
On April 30 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2013 10:07 Ace wrote:
yea VE do as you please. I'm tired of arguing about it and if you're the cop telling the truth you'll do as you please. I still think at least one of you is lying.

You aren't even arguing about it, you haven't even TRIED to comment on the posts I made above. You asked me to do it and I did.


I already said I heavily doubt there is a framer. I outlined they'd need to hit the right player already. I dont see how you post address this.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:16 GMT
#3447
what are you crying about? You already complained no one else wants to discuss it with you so I'm gonna stop. If I thought you were too stupid to understand I would have never even discussed it with you. I've been pretty chill this entire game keep your temper under control. I've done nothing to make you so emotional.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:20 GMT
#3449
On April 30 2013 10:15 VisceraEyes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 30 2013 10:12 Ace wrote:
On April 30 2013 10:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
On April 30 2013 10:07 Ace wrote:
yea VE do as you please. I'm tired of arguing about it and if you're the cop telling the truth you'll do as you please. I still think at least one of you is lying.

You aren't even arguing about it, you haven't even TRIED to comment on the posts I made above. You asked me to do it and I did.


I already said I heavily doubt there is a framer. I outlined they'd need to hit the right player already. I dont see how you post address this.


How did you "outline they'd need to hit the right player"? I know you heavily doubt there's a framer, but I'm saying that's irrelevant to the situation at hand - the fact is that they MIGHT have another framer, so your plan is fucking STUPID because ONE framer fucks with the WHOLE THING. They could target EITHER myself OR Palmar with it. There's NO WAY they would target CC with it because Palmar's sanity is in question, but that doesn't matter because if they hit me OR Palmar with it then YOUR PLAN IS TOTALLY STUPID.

Explain how and why I'm wrong Ace.


Shiao has not flipped. If CC is indeed telling the truth they would def target him also because BC, Palmar's check hasn't flipped also.

If CC is indeed telling the truth, we know he's insane. But we dont know if YOU are also telling the truth. So they could target you. Whatever result you get no longer matters - you'd have to confirm Palmar as "Same". Palmar's check on CC, who is telling the truth tells us more about his sanity and confirms CC is innocent. Framing you does nothing here unless you and Palmar are both lying - which would fuck you both over if BC flips.

Framer does nothing here.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:26 GMT
#3454
VE what you quoted is exactly what I'm talking about. CC legit ->you framed.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:29 GMT
#3456

What do you think targeting CC accomplishes for the mafia with Palmar's sanity in question?


It does the same thing targeting you does - it screws up 1 guy's check. But TWO of you, one of which we know has to insane DT if legit, has to get a "Scum" result on you. We know what he has to be if telling the truth, that is the entire key to this.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:35 GMT
#3458
On April 30 2013 10:27 VisceraEyes wrote:
Okay so...

Show nested quote +
On April 30 2013 09:23 VisceraEyes wrote:

VE = Parity Cop (not subject to sanities)
Cheese = Alignment Cop (Insane)
Palmar = Alignment Cop (Unconfirmed Sanity)

Now let's see what happens if I'm framed.

Your plan is this:

VE -> Palmar
Palmar->CC
CC->VE

With the framer targeting me we should see results like this:

Palmar
CC
VE (because insane)

Which we can then distill into

Town Palmar
????? Cheesecake
Scum VE

Suddenly VE's claim isn't so confirmed is it? Now all of a sudden we're looking at VE looking like scum because of confirmed-sanity-CC checking him as scum! Except...VE isn't scum is he?! HE'S A GOD DAMNED PARITY COP! And when you lynch the fuck out of VE for being scum and he flips town, where do you go there? YOU LYNCH CC BECAUSE HE'S EITHER LYING OR THERE'S ANOTHER FRAMER PRESENT.

In what way does this confirm anything Ace? HOW?!



...in what way does that confirm anything about anyone?[/QUOTE]

Your claim is confirmed depending on what Palmar reports. Remember - he already has a red check on BC. If you are legit, if Palmar lies he will show up as different to YOU because they framed you nullifying anything Palmar says.
If his claim holds up and both you and CC hold up we just move on and do it again: we possibly DO have 3 detectives, all with an extra investigation and now are sure of their sanities. If there is a liar it will be revealed by any flips of your investigation (OO), Palmar's (BC), or CC's (shiao).
How is this bad? A framer does nothing to stop us from finding out the lie or confirming everyone as legit. They are screwed.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
April 30 2013 01:37 GMT
#3459
On April 30 2013 10:32 VisceraEyes wrote:
My point is what if we're all telling the truth? You think I'm being unreasonable for considering framer as a possibility. I'm saying you're being unreasonable saying one of us HAS to be lying.

If we're all town this is all a huge waste of time that will harm town. That's my point.


adressed it just now. If you're ALL town all 3 of you will know what you are and the game is pretty much over with 3 detectives running around when we still have prot roles. I dont see why you're so against this. We are knocking out 2 bids with one stone here.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
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