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On April 12 2013 02:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also most recent scum game, Personality 2, he was really lurky and didnt arouse anyones suspicion ANYWHERE near like this. I don't much care about that comparison, though.
I've seen him be spammy and active as scum.
I've seen him be lurky as scum.
So...neither one really makes me think anything. I read him more as a player who can recognize how he's posting and use it to suit his needs, ramping up spamminess/crappiness as needed when he's scum to derail the thread.
In personality, he was super lurky D2 because he was in mason chat with prom. We used him to try to keep prom out of thread, and frankly we, as mafia, didn't NEED to do much. marv/foolishness and everything was spamming the thread so hard that we looked GOOD by not spamming.
What's one thing that some folks learned in Personality 2? Spam the thread and you're town! Marv kept harping on how he had to be town because you couldn't post so much as mafia. Again, it fits the narrative I've built, but mocsta here has been spamming HARD. I really noticed it during D2, it's one reason I told him I'd quit reading his posts, because he got too spammy and dumb with them. In the back of my head were marv's comments, and how one way I'd play as scum from now on out is to spam hard hard hard and have that to fall back on. Really, a lot of mocsta's comments today have not been helpful in the least.
Blah blah. There's a lot of me just interpreting everything to paint him scum now, because it fits so dang well with what I think a scum player might want to do in this game.
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On April 12 2013 02:27 Keirathi wrote:
Austin:
My problem with your narrative is that I think if scum could have gotten the lynch switched over to VE, then Artanis may have actually looked better today with a scum already flipped. AND they would still have a direct use KP. Maybe Artanis would have still gotten lynched today, but he almost certainly would have gotten another shot off too.
I just think it would have been in scum's best interest to start pushing towards VE rather than Artanis. I would have been convinced that someone would shoot/check artanis overnight. At the very least, even if someone does something to VE to confirm him being NRA, it means an additional townie kill, whether he gets lynched D2 or not.
Someone visiting VE overnight much better for scum than someone visiting Artanis, no matter whether they're visiting with a bullet or a check.
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On April 12 2013 02:36 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 02:32 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 02:27 Keirathi wrote:
Austin:
My problem with your narrative is that I think if scum could have gotten the lynch switched over to VE, then Artanis may have actually looked better today with a scum already flipped. AND they would still have a direct use KP. Maybe Artanis would have still gotten lynched today, but he almost certainly would have gotten another shot off too.
I just think it would have been in scum's best interest to start pushing towards VE rather than Artanis. I would have been convinced that someone would shoot/check artanis overnight. At the very least, even if someone does something to VE to confirm him being NRA, it means an additional townie kill, whether he gets lynched D2 or not. Someone visiting VE overnight much better for scum than someone visiting Artanis, no matter whether they're visiting with a bullet or a check. The problem is that VE was already outed as quite possibly NRA. No one would have visited him. It would have been beyond dumb. I know that even if VE hadn't been lynched, I sure as hell wouldn't have checked him. For all intents and purposes, he was useless to the scum team with his role outed. And, if someone visited Artanis with a check instead of a shot, then he still has time during the day today to shoot someone. As long as he does it before he gets day-vigged. Geript had already claimed VT, RO had claimed framer, and its possible scum drafted a role cop too. He would have just needed to shoot as soon as the day started, and he was already more useful alive than VE would have been. All true. I don't like snb for scum, and the list is starting to get a little shorter. More claims may help narrow this down, but right now I'm concerned with OO, mocsta, both sh players, and I'm sure there's someone that I'm just not seeing.
The thing that gives me the most pause is mocsta rambling in the night phase about all these people becoming "confirmed town" - snb, sinani, shelvocke. I HATE calling people that as scum, but I'm also not comfortable adjusting my reads as scum, and mocsta may be more comfortable with that. Don't know. Blech.
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Caller cannot.
Deconduo cannot. If he's town, he wouldn't lie about being janitor. If he's scum he wouldn't pick JV
Palmar POSSIBLY, but I was convinced on D1 that Palmar was the emperor and that still feels quite possibly true - was scummy on VE, would like to take roles that encourage killing, and emperor gets a kill D1 PLUS gets to cause a double lynch later (and has to activate double lynch during the night, so even though he died he could be the cause of our double lynch).
rayn is unknown.
BM loves to troll and make things up and lay "traps" and whatever, but the whole bit where he knew caller was scum and was dancing around things made it feel like he's actually justice vigi. However, we'll see.
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KEIRATHI WHY ARE WE NOT MIND-MELDED ON MOCSTA.
AND WHY DID MZ SHOOT ME IN THE FAAAAAAAAAAAACE.
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On April 12 2013 02:35 Sn0_Man wrote:I was thinking... Has ANYBODY made sense of rayn's "last words"? Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 09:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Okay, i can't stay up later. One thing i need to say:
geript: If i get hit tonight you have the instructions on how to proceed. Make wise decisions! You will know what i mean! Show nested quote +On April 10 2013 10:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:On April 10 2013 09:52 geript wrote:
Okay bro. Whoops. I actually meant Mocsta. Got confused about your names. :D
THIS FEELS LIKE IT MIGHT BE IMPORTANT.
Usually when I see stuff like this, it's junk like ... the weak doctors in Liquid City or whatever that game was, where they kept dying after protecting mafia and basically being DTs. The only role that makes any sense here though is rayn being...Ver? And PMing mocsta and pretty much only mocsta? I dunno. But mocsta does say that he didn't get anything from rayn, so ... grrrrr.
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On April 12 2013 02:27 Keirathi wrote:
Austin:
My problem with your narrative is that I think if scum could have gotten the lynch switched over to VE, then Artanis may have actually looked better today with a scum already flipped. AND they would still have a direct use KP. Maybe Artanis would have still gotten lynched today, but he almost certainly would have gotten another shot off too.
I just think it would have been in scum's best interest to start pushing towards VE rather than Artanis. I'm getting too spammy now, but I'm finally interested in something and I feel like I have license to mass post/respond since I'm dying.
Start reading mocsta's filter in the middle of page 11 for the annotated time period. mocsta DOES try to push things onto VE after having this long conversation with artanis, who he's 100% convinced is scum just a little bit earlier. He's also got a lot of back and forth with caller that...again, fits my stupid narrative and I just want him to be scum so baaaaaaaaaaaaaad so I can be right about something this game.
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On April 12 2013 03:00 Sn0_Man wrote:Mocsta killed deconduo. That seems pretty townie although you could explain it as mafia taking an easy shot. Why did he claim it though? I think there are better shots today TBH (although you really don't answer to anybody right now  ). Yeah, the decon bit is wonky. It's odd for decon to claim janitor if he actually was, nearly as odd as using janitor while being a friggin townie.
I've come around on decon definitely being mafia for using janitor. It's just such a weird thing to claim it and say you used it and give a particular reason WHY. Unless you're trying to screw up town's math, which he would be doing, which makes sense, which...again, grrrr.
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On April 12 2013 03:05 Vivax wrote:
Mocsta is not scum he doesn't do abrasive shit as scum, go read Personality 2, he was nice and reasonable, and he didn't try to jump into your face with what he had to say.
Lynch ObviousOne. (1) I WAS SCUM IN THAT GAME WITH MOCSTA. I KNOW WHAT HE WAS DOING THERE, I WAS HYPERAWARE OF WHAT HE WAS DOING THERE.
(2) Mocsta absolutely can be abrasive as scum. In the same vein as your comment, go read Newbie 37. He was not nice and reasonable, he DID jump into your face, and he did a great job of executing the "destroy the thread with spam/harrassment" scum plan.
Yes, a player will have tendencies as scum and as town. But anyone who mentions says "mocsta not scum because personality 2" is being lazy/close-minded/wrong. I have pointed you towards a specific game that you can find to see that you are wrong if you believe mocsta always plays scum like he did in personality 2. Furthermore, you are arguing with someone WHO WAS SCUM WITH MOCSTA IN PERSONALITY 2. As that game wore on, we had a very particular strategy, and we did not need to spam the thread or be abrasive, because TOWN was taking care of that. Heck. I was scum that game and only looked townie because I kept telling townies to quit crapping in the thread. That's how bad it was. Scum did not NEED to kill the thread that game.
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On April 12 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Austin, I tend to think that recent scum games, are close to what a player would do when he rolls scum, rather than past scum games a while ago.
Newbie 37 started on February 11 TL time. It less than 2 months old. It is not particular far away, and was within about ~3 weeks of Personality 2.
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On April 12 2013 03:13 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:12 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Austin, I tend to think that recent scum games, are close to what a player would do when he rolls scum, rather than past scum games a while ago.
Newbie 37 started on February 11 TL time. It less than 2 months old. It is not particular far away, and was within about ~3 weeks of Personality 2. In number of games its a ton. What do you mean by this, and by your comment about Ego or whatever?
If you played differently in Ego than another scum game of yours, that supports the idea that there is no single way that a player plays scum --> i.e. scumMocsta is not necessarily passive mocsta.
Also, what is this number of games thing? As best I can tell, mocsta played...one game in between those two at most? It's okay to look at game x but not a game that's two games behind x? It's okay to look at someone's MOST recent scumgame, but not their second most recent?
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On April 12 2013 03:21 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:17 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 03:13 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 12 2013 03:12 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 03:07 Oatsmaster wrote:
Austin, I tend to think that recent scum games, are close to what a player would do when he rolls scum, rather than past scum games a while ago.
Newbie 37 started on February 11 TL time. It less than 2 months old. It is not particular far away, and was within about ~3 weeks of Personality 2. In number of games its a ton. What do you mean by this, and by your comment about Ego or whatever? If you played differently in Ego than another scum game of yours, that supports the idea that there is no single way that a player plays scum --> i.e. scumMocsta is not necessarily passive mocsta. Also, what is this number of games thing? As best I can tell, mocsta played...one game in between those two at most? It's okay to look at game x but not a game that's two games behind x? It's okay to look at someone's MOST recent scumgame, but not their second most recent? I mean that when you play more games, your view on the game changes and your playstyle changes, same as your meta. So games that are more than 5 games behind this one is not VERY ACCURATE in determining meta in my opinion, especially with the game I JUST played. My mindset was totally different between LIX and Ego, and I assume Mocsta's one is different between Newbie and Personality. Also newbie games play differently because you feel differently about the players in the game. Okay, I agree with this. But the very fact that your view on the game changes and your playstyle changes means that you can't just go "he was quiet in personality and he's not quiet here so he's not scum." Like...this:On April 12 2013 02:26 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also most recent scum game, Personality 2, he was really lurky and didnt arouse anyones suspicion ANYWHERE near like this.
does not match up with someone being able to change their views on the game and playstyle. That's what I'm getting at. Not that personality 2 isn't important at all, but that it's not the be-all-end-all. If you actually believe that playstyle can change, then you're fine to put little stock in that newbie game, but you're not fine to put oodles of stock into personality.
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If meapak were mafia he could have nuked D1 and didn't.
If meapak DOES have a silent nuke, it would have KILLED SOMEONE. Therefore, IF he had a silent nuke and used it, he killed either artanis or VE (the only people to die at the end of the day). They both flipped mafia. So IF there's a scary ol' silent nuke, it means he used it to kill mafia...
I don't terribly have a problem with someone thinking I was scum at the start of D2. I don't love my play up until that point, and could see nuking me if I were someone else. I don't find his play super anti-town in terms of nuke use except that he didn't check the thread a final time before posting what he'd been writing up.
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On April 12 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:42 austinmcc wrote:
If meapak were mafia he could have nuked D1 and didn't.
If meapak DOES have a silent nuke, it would have KILLED SOMEONE. Therefore, IF he had a silent nuke and used it, he killed either artanis or VE (the only people to die at the end of the day). They both flipped mafia. So IF there's a scary ol' silent nuke, it means he used it to kill mafia...
I don't terribly have a problem with someone thinking I was scum at the start of D2. I don't love my play up until that point, and could see nuking me if I were someone else. I don't find his play super anti-town in terms of nuke use except that he didn't check the thread a final time before posting what he'd been writing up. What's he done today? Seriously, the dude is LAZY MAFIA. I've been saying it all game, and he's done absolutely fucking nothing. Here's the thing. Maybe he's lazy mafia. If he's mafia, he voluntarily just didn't shoot D1. That seems like a poor choice. That's something that I would flag as saying, "Hey...hold up. This guy looks like he might be mafia, but he used his role in an odd manner for someone who is mafia." I would second guess my read on him.
Then I would go, "Wait a minute, snb claimed a cop check on MZ." If snb is lying, he's taking a risk that there are no other whatever-cops above him on the chart. A small risk, but a risk. And maybe MZ is a gf, that's a possibility. But again, it's SOME/SLIGHT/DECENT evidence that MZ might not be mafia.
Then, there are a couple other players with LESS in their favor, imo. What has sharrant or shelvocke done that makes them less likely mafia than MZ? OO? Mocsta? geript? There are a boatload of players who have done very little today, almost ALL of us have done very little of consequence.
You are tunneled in on these little weird things and need to expand your view. You want or wanted to kill BM, despite claiming that you picked justice vigi and didn't get it. He seems like the only person who fits the bill, and that means that, if he's town, he's shooting at mafia, and if he's mafia, he's shooting at mafia or dying. If he's actually justice vigi, that is ACTUALLY the worst possible lynch you could come up with. So...quit being tunneled in. It hasn't served you particularly well in some recent games, and right now it's not doing you any good.
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I'm still of the mind that the justice vigi stuff will play out as it plays out. It is a role that 100% proves itself. It is not worth worrying about.
Decon and caller are unknowns, and yeah, decon could still be mafia. We don't know. If he's mafia, mocsta almost certainly not. If he was town, mocsta could be mafia because...mafia ANYONE shooting townie anyone is never something that doesn't make sense. mocsta went and made a case on him just before deadline, shot him, so it makes perfect sense as any alignment, and decon's flip doesn't matter (if no janitor used, decon either flips mafia (I shot mafia guys!) or town (Oops, I really thought he was scum guys!)).
That list is fine, you've just been very vocal about mason logs and some other things today. People being masoned doesn't make them town. People seeming like townies in mason chat doesn't make them town. But us having the logs doesn't feel super duper important right at this moment.
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On April 12 2013 05:35 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 05:32 strongandbig wrote:On April 12 2013 05:25 Sn0_Man wrote:I'd kinda like to hear Mocsta's full roleclaim not "I'm one of BC/Vig/Capitalist" (and I don't think he is BC because he claimed the KP before the roleclaim ) However, with the amount of time left in teh day (6.5 hours I think) I'd be happy if sinani and OO just stepped up and claimed now. I'm not sure they are here though. actually you're kind of right - claiming "i'm one of these roles" is pretty scummy since it gives him outs if people claim some of those roles later. He also said he breadcrumbed it. I mean, maybe he breadcrumbed all 3, but it at least gives some credence to the fact that he was thinking about it before the mass-claim plan started. We'll see. It's possible that the crumbs are him noting he's gonna shoot someone. If he just crumbed the shot/KP, then it's still a scummy announcement, especially as one reason he seems to not want to claim is that BC could be lurking, when he wants to pretend he might be BC despite the fact that he almost certainly could not have known deconduo's role at that point in the game.
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People with checks not entirely clear. People who have done checking not entirely clear. Most of them not worth worrying about atm, but nobody should ENTIRELY sleep on snb/keirathi/mz/sinani. See what pans out.
(sn0 still very, very likely townie due to role usage, unless the flips get really wonky)
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On April 12 2013 07:08 geript wrote:
Claim already Sno.
I do not understand your play today at all if you are town
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On phone but semi afk for a few hours
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On April 12 2013 07:39 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 07:30 Keirathi wrote:On April 12 2013 07:25 geript wrote:On April 12 2013 07:12 austinmcc wrote:On April 12 2013 07:08 geript wrote:
Claim already Sno. I do not understand your play today at all if you are town 1. Because I'm sure he's scum 2. Because no one else believes me 3. Because you've been treating him like confirmed town when he's anything but completely differently from me who you also consider to be confirmed town despite the fact that his only actual townie points are a green check 4. He's scum bro 5. He'd actually see I'm town if he were The green check isn't the only thing that makes him town. I argued that he was town hours and hours before the green check was public. Why didn't you fight me about it then? Why do I need to argue your points? Most vets I've seen have completely misread newbs actions. It's ok Kei, you can win with me once people actually sheep me.
I have information you do not. I will die momentarily, and you'll know I was town and not lying about it.
So knock it off and trust that you are almost certainly wrong here.
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EPT
