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On April 07 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Honestly Keirathi, I don't feel great about Rayn, but I don't want to put too much stock in a meta read from one game especially when I don't know much of anything about Rayn. I could see someone going for a plan that puts them early in the draft order regardless of alignment.
As for S&B I'd like to hear his response, but I like your points about how he seems to find the draft/picking phase important but doesn't actually contribute anything to them at all.
Get more ript
Thats the point.. He sold himself as wanting to support a town plan; it wasnt sold as a plan to put him solely into the top 5.
How much value are you giving him for being supposedly "high".
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On April 07 2013 15:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
Girls.
VE totes town
Sn0 comes in here. Throws dirt on me, defends Vivax. LEAVES.
WHY? CAUSE HE IS SCUM BRO.
Vivax is scum for supporting bad plan.
And other things.
Seriously man.. you have an 8 page filter of blunt statements.
You need to start fleshing things out if you want ppl to sheep you.
Otherwise, if you want your standard play where you sheep others; comment on Rayn/SnB/Sinani
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On April 07 2013 15:19 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:11 Mocsta wrote:
How much value are you giving him for being supposedly "high".
Not any honestly.
So if that is the case, im not following your prior comment.
Yes, town and scum both want the top pick. But do you expect town to go on a big spiel about plans; and then cease to contribute once the goal is achieved?
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On April 07 2013 15:33 Shelvocke wrote:I don't really think rayn is mafia. His play does look different from those town quotes you had, but it doesn't look like that mafia game either. The only part of that game where he just suddenly jumps is the part where he votes for Krefla and even then he has a reason because Krefla just came in right before the deadline. The fact that he seems a lot more impulsive in this game than he has been before is something that points to him being town. I feel he would be a lot more careful and safe as mafia. The plan switch looks kind of strange, but his overall attitude makes him more likely town.
More impulsive as instigator or in reaction to others?
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On April 07 2013 15:39 Shelvocke wrote:
What do you mean? He seems to jump around based on what's going on in the thread.
Thank you. so impulsive is then defined as: in response to others; rather than in creating new ideas.
I dont see what is townie about that. Scum can be equally impulsive in regards to thread sentiment.
However, I dont particularly care about the action itself:
do you think his motives for "jumping around" is founded upon processing new information to update the conclusion?
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On April 07 2013 15:52 Shelvocke wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:44 Mocsta wrote:On April 07 2013 15:39 Shelvocke wrote:
What do you mean? He seems to jump around based on what's going on in the thread. Thank you. so impulsive is then defined as: in response to others; rather than in creating new ideas. I dont see what is townie about that. Scum can be equally impulsive in regards to thread sentiment. However, I dont particularly care about the action itself: do you think his motives for "jumping around" is founded upon processing new information to update the conclusion? I get what you're saying, but I've never seen a new mafia player be so crazy. I don't really understand the reasons for some of the stuff he does but it seems to me that he sees one post and then just makes up his mind based on that. Usually new mafia are much more safe and concerned about their appearance. It's possible he's some kind of mafia gosu but frankly that's not the impression I get from him.
I understand what you are saying.
But keep in mind, he is a spammy player at heart. This implies he is aggressive/carefree/impulsive/confident in general, and thus; the typical mafia "too scared to post" heuristic, does not apply.
I was not scared to post in my first game as scum; in fact, I tried to take control of town.
Further, his scum game (whilst in a newbie) was still relatively spammy. So it really does come back down to motives for flipflopping.
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On April 07 2013 15:55 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:22 Mocsta wrote:
So if that is the case, im not following your prior comment.
Yes, town and scum both want the top pick. But do you expect town to go on a big spiel about plans; and then cease to contribute once the goal is achieved? I think most of the plans weren't really terribly discussed but I need to go back and reread that whole section again. Will give a more firm answer in a bit.
You dont need to read the section to answer the question.
I gave a hypothetical.
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On April 07 2013 17:14 gonzaw wrote:
I'll wait until people start sheeping me I guess.
I just finished catching up on the thread.
Agree with the points.
At first I didnt mind him propelling himself into the thread with his RNG idea.. but i think that is the key to why he is scum.
Reminds me of a scum game, where I had a lurker in my team; and i told him specifically to just post your thoughts into the middle of a convo, to stand out.. cos "scum dont do that".
You are right Gonzaw, artanis doesnt have conviction in any idea that he pushes; everything is half-assed.
##Unvote
##Vote: Artanis[Xp]
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On April 07 2013 17:19 geript wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 16:42 gonzaw wrote:
Geript, can you comment on my case please? I can't see how the stuff brought against rayn is any stronger than what I've posted about Artanis, and it seems you've read my case I don't wholly buy into the hiding in the setup stuff. It could likely be said of a few people. I even got my idea of draft pods partially from his RNG idea. I think your most damning point in the first part is that he neither tries to push why his ideas are good or better especially when his plan only works for 1-3 roles. It just seems far, far more questionable that he's just trying to throw out an idea without any reasoning behind it and doesn't care to assert himself. But I don't know anything about Artanis so that might be typical for him; it does seem odd that he was so carefree about setup and so hard to try and push me. I could see that as being related to that due to Draft phase being Day -1, Post draft being Day 0 and the extended foreplay really being done. As for complaining, in my experience complaining players are perhaps slightly more likely to be scum, but I wouldn't put it past 55%-45%. I get that those posts say mostly nothing, but I could see something like this come from busy/disinterested town. My distinct impression of the Artanis case when he posted it was a few things: First, Is this some sort of Chainsaw? Second, this seems like an odd set of things to be pointing out. Third, initially it feels like a case that came from town not scum (but this is completely a gut read). It does somewhat remind me of things that we'd look for last game as scum, but I have a hard time taking that seriously. I doubt it was ever meant as an actual case; it's either to discredit pressure on Keirathi at the time or discredit me attacking VE or just to appear active. The odder thing about the case IMO is that I actually thought these points + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 09:25 geript wrote:
On phone. Artanis can you explain what you find so scummy about my filter if it is not just the quotes you posted in your mini case? Asking people whether you can sheep them isn't exactly the height of taking responsibility. Antagonizing people that refuse to play along with your plan because they want to approach the game in a different way, single line comments about players you find suspicious then asking other people what they think about them rather than fleshing out your own opinion, all the while focussing on your own plan. I'd rather you reply to the mini case I made though as it contains the stronger points. were far more scummy than an instance of town heuristic stuff. What feels odd to it about me is that he's willing to wholly drop the 'scummy stuff' that he didn't even really pressure me for just because of how I respond and the fact that I had a case on VE. The sixth point I think is actually the most damning. That is essentially how I slid through the last game. Granted this point is moot if you're scum. Overall the case isn't bad, I prefer the Rayn case. I want to get some sleep before I reread everything tomorrow.
Firstly,
your play has really stepped up this game. I feel strongly enough about this to publicly say it. Well done.
I will eat my hat if you are scum. (luckily i dont wear hats  )
Secondly,
The Artanis case felt like.. he took my "scum slip" comment; and decided you were lynch bait and tried to fabricate a case around it. Its highly probable thats why he felt the need to add it as the final piece to his case; for reenforcement.
Thirdly,
I really like how in your exchange between Rayn/MZ.
Rayn has reads on everyone, except conveniently Artanis - obviously association read here.
Look i like a lynch on SnB/Rayn/Artanis for this cycle.
I think Artanis should be lynched for a combination of both, solid case, and solid experience.
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On April 07 2013 17:30 gonzaw wrote:
Everybody "conveniently" left out Artanis from their talk, even Meapak who called him out previously, except some specific players when he made the case (BM, you, yamato and geript).
So that's not really an "association" or anything, more than it is an association with VE, or RO, or anybody else.
I assume you = me
If so, your the second "old-school" player taht has disagreed with me regarding association definition?
WTF?
Association is calling someone scum due to association relationship, without seeing a flip.
So yes, leaving all the other shit about Rayn aside: calling him scum due to not giving a read on Artanis is association, as Artanis has not yet flipped.
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On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote:You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy.
At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself  Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf?
I agree Oats is getting annoying.
But not with Vivax is super town; OR ppl have told oats otherwise.
i dont recall anyone sticking up for Vivax... o.0
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On April 07 2013 17:42 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 17:39 Mocsta wrote:On April 07 2013 17:37 gonzaw wrote:You are getting annoying Oats. There is a 10.000 essay telling you why Artanis is the scummiest shit in this game instead of Vivax And you have I dunno how many people telling you Vivax is just not that scummy.
At all, Vivax is the OPPOSITE of scummy, but that's so characteristic of his that it is scummy in itself Right now you are just sounding childish dude, wtf? I agree Oats is getting annoying. But not with Vivax is super town; OR ppl have told oats otherwise. i dont recall anyone sticking up for Vivax... o.0 No, Vivax is acting "normal", as in like what any other normal player would act normally in a normal game. He makes some sense at times as well Remembering back on LIX.....this is surprising and very very weird. Maybe he just got better? I dunno He's not obvs town like others, but he's certainly not the "scummiest shit" in the game, and I'd leave him be until he does something else besides his push of RO (which he apparently backed out of, thus he needs to do something, and we need to watch closely what he does) Well I still have outstanding questions for him, that I have repeatedly asked for answers to.
Im not liking his play, but feel he is more of a 50/50 than Artanis
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On April 07 2013 18:27 Palmar wrote:
list of probable townies:
gonzaw
geript
mocsta
vivax
that leaves me with 20 possible lynch targets. I really need to figure out more people who I don't think are scum.
Why?
Im still waiting for you to step up and show me your awesome townieness - if you dare.
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On April 07 2013 19:49 Oatsmaster wrote:
Palmar isnt interested in doing ANYTHING right now.
Thats ok, hes got a sexy beard.
I'm more curious why he is only looking for town reads?
Palmar
I have reservations about the town read on Vivax.
Can you give me a couple dot points on what stands out to you as *only* town motive.
(kinda like what you did for BillMurray) pl0x
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Thnx for the retort Artanis[Xp]
So damn scummy
My vote is staying on you, br0dooski
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On April 07 2013 21:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mind expanding on that?
Not really.
Other than: Its classic scum retort.
Blow out of proportion the small details and glance over the important stuff.
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On April 07 2013 22:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Artanis do you have reads?
defending yourself is fine and all but I prefer reads.
He can only give town reads, or comment that he meekly pushed RNG.
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On April 07 2013 22:04 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:54 Vivax wrote:
Artanis still think geript is scum?
Comments on VE and his RO case? I still hate his earlier posts but everything since that has been good so I have no intention of lynching him at the moment. His case on RO is meh. I like the point regarding town reads that he'd suddenly like to get lynched, but that's about it for that case for me, and RO responds alright to it. He's also paranoid of everyone and everything which is generally a town trait.
So u were asked if geript is scum
U responded u have no intention to lynch him at the moment.
How about answer the question.
Is geript scum... Yes or no.
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On April 07 2013 22:39 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 22:09 Oatsmaster wrote:
Artanis do you have reads?
defending yourself is fine and all but I prefer reads. I'm going to spit through this game more thoroughly tonight and give you something more in depth then. Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 22:36 Mocsta wrote:On April 07 2013 21:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mind expanding on that? Not really. Other than: Its classic scum retort. Blow out of proportion the small details and glance over the important stuff. What important stuff didn't I address then?
I take that response as an admission to blowing the small stuff out of proportion 
BTW. I'm not here to convince u that u r scum.
And ur reply reenforced what I already was sure of. U r scum
So this discourse is going no where.
P.s. everyone prefers townies that scumhunt instead of contribute by defending.
Best of luck with that.
gnite.
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So u calling me scum then, or just pontificating around the word?
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EPT
