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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 11 2013 22:26 Mocsta wrote: How come everyone is ignoring my points on snb? Mainly because you went from being sensible and posting clear arguments to putting a lot of spam in the thread and continuously poking at everyone you could  I have only been skimming your posts since partway through N1 becuase of that.Looking things over now. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Bill Murray, Shelvocke, Mocsta, could use claims from you guys. Mocsta, I think it's ... absurd to be calling someone "meticulous" apart from like...that dienosore guy's action charts. I think it's even more absurd to be lynching someone because they don't meet your meticulous standard for them. I have played with lurky snb, I've played with snb throwing in joke/dinky little comments. I do not care that snb typed hahaha in response to Caller. The VE stuff is better, but at least with the first comment I disagree with your characterization of snb's quote. On April 07 2013 06:09 strongandbig wrote: I read the bolded part differently than you do. I see that as looking for MORE comment on VE, actively opening the door for him to be a continued topic of discussion. I just don't see that as him shutting down discussion. Personally, if I'm really thinking someone is scum, and a third player tells me that my reasoning isn't enough, I need more, I'm dumb enough to go hunting through a filter for more (see me trying to convince gonzaw on shelvocke, etc. etc.). So perhaps it's just a quirk of my play, but I read that one differently.On other news shelvocke is scum? How has VE been refusing to play? A vote on ve at this point needs way more justification than the sentence he posted. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) On April 08 2013 19:44 strongandbig wrote: This was my first thought upon returning to thread. The dude that shoots roleclaimers just shot. If anyone was denied the assassin role, we can possibly narrow down where the assassin shot came from. This shows, to me, that he was approaching the shot on gonzaw from a townie mindset.did anyone try to pick assassin and get denied? (2) He wanted to lynch between artanis/shelvocke/VE On April 08 2013 04:52 strongandbig wrote: anyway before i go back to grading problem sets let me make my positions clear: at the moment, i am willing to lynch shelvok because his filter reads to me like he's being very "on track" but his justifications for those things are super insufficient. i am also willing to lynch artanis because gonzaws case seems good and artanis's response doesn't convince me he's town out of other people who have votes at the moment, i won't support killing palmar or keirathi or ryan. i would think about killing VE because of how bad his vote on deconduo is but it would take some persuading for me to do that. On April 08 2013 23:20 strongandbig wrote: Yes, those were leading candidates, but we know now that AT LEAST 2/3 of them were scum. Whereas you may think that pushing VE over Artanis means saving the more important scumbuddy, I think that putting no real effort into trying to find a third party, or pushing shelvocke/pushing me to push shelvocke as a lynch candidate looks townie. He's making no real effort to push the lynch off scum, to move people away from artanis/VE, and I, for now, find that townie.we should absolutely be lynching between artanis, shelvocke, and VE today. IMO we should be lynching VE. For a scum that high up to take NRA member instead of some active KP role, they would have to think of themselves as a likely check or other night action target. It doesn't make sense just to have a lurker take it and hope to get vigged instead of lynched. VE is the only one of the list above geript who is a likely check or vig target but not a likely early lynch. Plus, if you look at his play it's like he's trying to draw vig shots or dt checks. He is most likely the scum NRA member. Plus unlike artanis or shelvocke, if he is the NRA member then there's no hope for investigative roles to clear up the questions about him. IMO we should lynch ve. (3) On April 09 2013 02:14 strongandbig wrote: Another topic - if anyone tried to get traitor and was rejected they should probably claim. So...maybe I just have a scummy way of thinking about this game/setups, but I have also been keeping traitors in the back of my head. You can interpret this as fishing so that scum can narrow down where any traitors are, but you can also look at this as thinking about the possibility of a traitor and trying to start dealing with that possibility. It's...not a great point either way, but traitors in this game are kind of useless for scum. They don't add KP, so you acting on a traitor to recruit them is giving away an action (on the traitor to recruit him) that you could have used on a townie, for a benefit of...some guy who adds no KP or powers to your lineup. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 11 2013 23:03 Mocsta wrote: Vivax. Who did u parity check Austin with? I'm not claiming yet as its not my turn. As I said before I crumbed it. So will release when I wake up We could use it as you're down towards the bottom and things are moving super-slow. The first half of this day was really light from a bunch of us on scumhunting OR doing anything with claims, and the more we hold things up the longer it takes (Pretty sure I just want to blow through them because I'm gonna die and want to see if I can do anything with em, so maybe my sense of urgency is overblown). Also, parity cop is one person per day in this setup, like normal. So the first day just seeds your second check, it doesn't actually give you a same/different result. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 11 2013 23:06 Mocsta wrote: Assassin had already been used D1 though, so it wasn't going to be up for an entire cycle. Moreover, SOMEONE on the scum team had some sense and could intuit that Gonzaw was a jack based on his claimed KP and the fact he was sure he'd live until D2 to maybe use it.Austin. Personally I read pointed 1 and 3 as looking for vt to use assassin on. Its moot as can be taken as townie or scum. As for point 2. Its all fluff. He says this, he says that, but what does he actually do? Why does he say he agrees with art an is having scummy points, and then try to push too out of no where, dodging any responsibility with artanis. His vote doesn't come in till after geript NRA post. So ve was fucked regardless. If they can work their way through claims half-decently, I'd expect them to use assassin on actual roles, not on VTs who picked things that scum doesn't want to talk about too much. Like, yes, maybe they're setting up targets for way in the future if they can't find anyone, but it's a game full of power roles and crap. People are going to claim, people are going to get outed, they're going to have juicier targets than using assassin KP on VTs. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Which strong townies have powerful roles could factor into that, but your assassin is never just shooting blindly. He's generally not going to fire at VTs, and ... he has no need to figure out "who not to shoot." He looks for claims, fires on the claimers, at least as I can figure it, rather than looking for "who do we want to shoot" and then figuring out what they might be. The process is different than with normal KP, because he has to be able to give their role or lose his power. It reduces or eliminates the need for him to know where not to shoot. Given that you're going to be gone and sleeping for a while, consider claiming? Slightly out of order, but if we're trying to get claims in TODAY then we need to get moving faster. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 11 2013 23:19 Mocsta wrote: Some of snb's posts come before there was a big push on VE iirc. Like, he was a constant "what is VE doing" but until geript came in and noted that he'd tried for NRA member and gotten VT, VE wasn't as big a focus. Double checked so as not to be an idiot here, and at the very least the first artanis/shelvocke/VE post comes like 7 hours before geript makes his NRA announcement.BTW Austin. Are u just reading the filter literally or taking into account the thread sentiment? Shevlocke wasn't getting lynched day1. It was either artanis or ve. In my opinion, your point 2 is snb giving a fleshed out summary post. ===== I'm going to bed. I'm not claiming my role outright. Its not my turn and bm hinted he may not be justice for whatever reason. So I am either Bloodycobbler, capitalist or vigilante. I don't think its important to known right now which one it is exactly. I either have 1 kp left, or a couple role checks. I prefer scum to be kept on toes. I think that, at that point, it was more artanis or shelvocke, but I'm also coloring that with me wanting to lynch shelvocke at that point, seeing that there was SOME support, and thinking that I could pick up another couple votes. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(1) Why the vote on sharrant? (2) If we still have an inventor alive, he hands you a magical potion that brings one of the N1 deaths back to life. Who do you use it on? (3) What do you think of mocsta this game. You've...taken issue with his posting style, but haven't really spoken about him as a player. Please flesh out some real, alignment-indicative thoughts about mocsta, and post them. To this thread. (4) What do you think of snb at the moment? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 12 2013 01:15 geript wrote: Stay tuned for future episodes of the young and the claiming.I only count 2 red check cops in OP yet 3 have claimed. Did I miss a random role somehow? It's possible, but need to see the specifics first. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Yeah, either that or an investigative bonus. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
D1 checked sn0_man. DT gets alignment/role, and I got town blank. For now, I won't claim his role, but I currently am not worried that he's a gf or something. Poking back through the game, I can see what he did, and he did a town thing with his role. That also means that, if we want it, I can day vig for cycle 2. Was planning on medicing or veteraning tonight, but that's...kind of not an option anymore. So, we can "triple lynch," or I can play cowboy, or I can sit on the shot. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I am going to continue thinking about whether I want to shoot or not, and who, specifically, I want to shoot. I will consider input from certain folks in this game, although everyone is welcome to give it for funsies. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 12 2013 01:51 Keirathi wrote: You like vivax for scum?Personally I think you should shoot one of vivax/sharrant/OO, and we lynch the other two. They are literally the only people left that I don't have solid reasons why they are town. Also on my list...mocsta. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I have sn0's alignment and role. I am about to flip later today. If I'm mafia, you're more than welcome to bitch at sn0. However, when I'm town, you're going to realize that you've been in the weeds on this. Your claim was quite helpful to put attention on VE, and on the top of the list in general. I find you townie based on that, but it doesn't mean you ARE town. Caller USED HIS ROLE TO KILL SCUM and may have been mafia himself. Now, he's the sort of player who would do that as scum, but at the very least you need to realize that: (1) You're not 100% confirmed, and, more importantly (2) NOBODY CARES EVEN IF YOU'RE 100% CONFIRMED OR NOT BECAUSE THE GOAL OF THE GAME ISN'T "ESTABLISH SELF AS TOWN AND THEN BE UNHELPFUL AND RUDE We hunt scum. We keep thread legible. We work mothereffing together when possible. By sniping at sn0, you're making the thread less legible, you're wasting your time, you're wasting sn0's time in responding, you're wasting my time because I feel like herding cats today instead of scumhunting because I'm playing poorly this game blah blah blah. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 12 2013 01:58 Keirathi wrote: I will admit to not being a mocsta-expert here, but it's troubling me.Yea, I think Vivax is quite possibly scum. As far as Mocsta....meh. I wouldn't be *SUPER* surprised if he's scum, but I've had a town read on him the entire game. He's playing like I normally see him play as town; loud, abrasive, arguing all the wrong things, but (seemingly) genuinely thinking about the game in his own weird way. He is very loud and abrasive. He can play that way as town. Heck, it was one reason I thought he was mafia in Newbie 37, he was so obviously loud and abrasive when he didn't need to be. Also, he was scum that game. I don't like picking out certain qualities of his game to make him town or scum in that case, and it reminds me of JingleHell in Aperture 2. I completely threw him out as a scumread because he was being so obnoxious and useless, but he was doing it on purpose. I can see mocsta being able to play a certain way on purpose, to skate through the game. I remember fighting with him D1 over artanis. But when I look at the timings, gonzaw posts his case while mocsta is trying to push a rayn lynch. AFTER gonzaw posts his case, what happens? On April 07 2013 17:22 Mocsta wrote: Mocsta is now entirely on board with an artanis lynch. Mocsta doesn't even mention rayn. He's been pushing rayn, discussing rayn, trying to get votes on rayn, and drops it like it's hot once gonzaw's case pops up. In later posts he halfway stays on rayn, tries to draw associations between rayn and artanis, and then later is townie on rayn, but the speed with which he stops posting on one guy and picks up the artanis wagon reads scummy to me. It reads like scum says "Oh, that's not a bad case at all," it picks up some steam, and at least some of them have to jump on it. If you follow the rest of the day, mocsta goes from just sheeping Gonzaw's case to slowly arguing it more and more, adding the conviction stuff, and really...in some ways carrying the banner for the artanis lynch? IF he's scum, he's making sure everyone knows that he's on the artanis lynch plan, being very vocal and visible about it, in order to get the maximum cred from it. One way to read it. Not guaranteed.I just finished catching up on the thread. Agree with the points. At first I didnt mind him propelling himself into the thread with his RNG idea.. but i think that is the key to why he is scum. Reminds me of a scum game, where I had a lurker in my team; and i told him specifically to just post your thoughts into the middle of a convo, to stand out.. cos "scum dont do that". You are right Gonzaw, artanis doesnt have conviction in any idea that he pushes; everything is half-assed. ##Unvote ##Vote: Artanis[Xp] How does he deal with the VE stuff D1? On April 08 2013 12:27 Mocsta wrote: Tough predicament now regarding NRA. Thing is: Keirathi and his role recommendation post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=34#663 NRA is desired by both partiesl and I can see why. It gives you awesome defense as town/scum against Day Kill and Night Kill. It also acts as a great trap pick for the early draftees. ============= Geript, whilst I have really liked your play this game. I think the move to jump to a conclusion to vote VE is too haste and requires a more fastidious attitude. VE play has been odd this game - that is undeniable. But odd does not 100% equate scum. I liked your case a lot; but I love the Artanis[Xp] case and what it unraveled. Stay the course. VE is odd, the case is good, but it's too hasty and we need to just stay on Artanis. On April 08 2013 13:03 Mocsta wrote: Again, "maybe scum is trying to get us to go after VE?" (which would indicate he was townie on VE except he doesn't appear to be). Nope. Stay the course. Artanis artanis artanis.Now anways, lets get this show back on track. Gonzaw was a good scum hit; the timing is what is interesting. Are they trying to force us onto VE, because it happened when we were talking about him? hmmm.. for now, i want to maintain the legacy Gonzaw started. We keep the lynch on Artanis[Xp] On April 08 2013 13:18 Mocsta wrote: The thread topic at the time was: Geript/VE NRA item. Which was potentially juicy enough to get a wagon off Artanis Im saying this all this, because if Artanis (who we are lynching) flips red.. im inclined to think VE is town. Think about what would happen if the thread lynches VE. They're STILL going to go after artanis too, nothing has painted artanis as town over the course of geript's claim and gonzaw getting shot. Mafia, at this point, CANNOT let VE be the day's only lynch. Mafia CANNOT allow VE to die by lynch with Artanis hanging in the wind and possibly some mafia members having taken a hard stance that Artanis is town. Heck, that fits with caller being mafia. Mafia NEEDS THE DAY TO END. They need a lynch on artanis, they need to get that cred, they need to protect VE. They didn't know we'd have a second lynch, and it would have (and did) ROYALLY fuck any plans to keep VE alive. At this point, they just can't save artanis because they've gone so hard on lynching him (again IF mafia didn't think they could get votes onto NOT artanis). Okay wait, I'm going to halt here. Does anyone see what I'm seeing? There's some more little stuff, niggling doubts about some of his posts, the way he's been so chummy with a lot of players, but...I really hate the timing on his artanis vote and then the way he plays out the rest of that day. We can discuss the other stuff later/shortly, and I'm crafting a narrative here, but...ack. I really like the narrative  | ||
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