|
On April 05 2013 20:07 Vivax wrote:
@ mocsta
Didn't agree with all of rayn's list, sharrant for example. But yamato, you and geript were good calls imo. And I don't think scum would play like rayn did, it's that simple.
Vivax, the original question was from OO, not me.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766¤tpage=34#662
Further, I am inclined to agree with Oats. The response above does not resolve the outstanding issue.
In fact, it makes me more curious.
(1)
OO was concerned about why Rayn was your #1
i.e. he noticed a valid contradiction in what each of you deemed as strong town
A response to this is still outstanding.
(2)On April 05 2013 16:35 Mocsta wrote:
*Regarding Vivax*
I am in agreement with your thoughts. His filter reads nice at the start; and then has some peculiarities where I can not follow the logic.
e.g. the rationale for Rayn as a #1 pick.
Or that, he agrees with Rayns top 5.. yet his own Top 5 only has Rayn as a commanality?? My concern was that your top 5 did not match the top5 of rayn.
However, your response above indicates that at specific point in time - you agreed with 3 of the rayn reads.
The stories are not matching up.
(3)This is nitpicking, but even small comments like Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 03:37 Vivax wrote:
Sadly, RO's wasn't a scumclaim. He could just shut up or lie about agreeing with sending in the right numbers while he doesn't. Why is it sad Rayn was going off nothing? etc
|
On April 05 2013 22:16 Oatsmaster wrote:
Any reads other than Vivax, Mocsta?
Frankly, its difficult as we are not officially in Day 1 - so the contributions from many are limited.
To answer your question: I just have FoS, than actual scum reads.
FoS: AustinMCC / Bill Murray / Vivax / VE
I also like yams points about Palmar/MZ
Im hoping once the game actually starts, more ppl start chipping in; so proper scum reads can develop.
|
Caller; do you still think me/yam are scum?
|
On April 05 2013 22:50 Caller wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 22:47 Mocsta wrote:
Caller; do you still think me/yam are scum? why does it matter?
Cos thats been your piece de resistance for contributions thus far.
|
Guys,
I think it may be best to just agree to disagree.
This convo has been going on now for a few pages.
If i can divert the attention:
Are we expecting all the low post contributors to kick into action once the roles are dispersed?
How much leniency are we intending to give to ppl in multiple games?
e.g. ppl like Palmar, who is significantly more active in his other game currently.
|
Man.. Artanis.. I *ABHOR* association reads.
But, considering the pressure keirathi is under; and this case on Geript.
I will admit I found it odd that Keirathi decided to step in to "hard defend" Geript regarding that "scum slip" comment.
Why?
Because it didnt put Geript under any pressure. So I could not understand why Keirathi wanted to interject and devote so many posts to discussing this matter.
And then to Culminate by throwing suspicion on my action.
Just food for thought.
+ Show Spoiler [scumslip exchange] +On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote:
@VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote:
I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip.
Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that.
I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote:
Err what?
How is that in any way a scumslip :o
You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. On April 05 2013 15:57 Mocsta wrote:
Perhaps, the only reason I dont think its a slip is because its a common saying; and perhaps used in the wrong context.
It still does infer he is aware VE is active in a QT. On April 05 2013 16:02 Keirathi wrote:You mean imply, not infer. You inferred based on his implication  But I digress... I don't even think it implies that. I mean, I guess I can see how you can read it and think that, but in context the implication to me is that VE is not being out in the open with his thoughts, and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. Which I can agree with, but I don't think it really means anything yet. On April 05 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote:
Regardless of English semantics.
we are saying the same thing.
I agree, that was his intention - as the saying is common, and perhaps used incorrectly.
I think more of Geript than to scum slip and actually imply VE is busy in the QT - so easily.
Regardless, I didnt want to make an inference so early on; so went straight to the source.
The whole question is voided now, but it was never a big deal in the first place. <3 On April 05 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote:
Which brings me to another question: Why even bring it up then? Like, what purpose did it serve, if you already didn't think it was a scumslip? On April 05 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote:
The purpose I suggested one sentence above that line.
I didnt want to make an inference so early on, so went straight to the source.
If we start filling in the gaps now; we will never figure out the scum team.. that is what they want us to do, and how we become tunneled.
|
On April 06 2013 08:08 geript wrote:
Artanis I think the thing you're not understanding is that me and Moc have history.
Thats not a valid point.
I don't talk to Oats like that; and trust me, this is the first game together we haven't had a 10 page argument Day1 (yet).
Hence, my commentary
On April 05 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Thank you Moc, now I know that you are town. On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
errmm OK o.0
Will have to talk more about this post-game.
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you.
Then comments like this one to VE
On April 06 2013 06:14 geript wrote:
VE. I do not like you right now. I fully believe in the idea that you pushed in the Nomination podcast that you can ALWAYS scumhunt. I have not seen you do anything of the sort. Explain yourself.
For whatever reason, you are trying to position yourself as a person intimately familiar with certain players.
Now, I can understand both town *And* scum reasons for that.
It is up to you to convince me which way it leans.
|
On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences.
Its association because there is no flip.
The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller)
|
On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it.
Geript is a difficult player to work with.
+ Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths.
Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing.
He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves.
I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses.
I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs.
|
On April 06 2013 08:29 Bill Murray wrote:
Artanis is scum with Keirathi
GG
Care to expound
|
On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths.
Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing.
He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal? Stop over analysing
the key point i said is "i think there is merit in what you have pointed out"
The other stuff was saying, I am not confident on giving a firm read on him due to my knowledge of his play.
Henceforth, the watching closely.
Dude, whether I agree with you or not; doesnt make me town or scum.
|
On April 06 2013 08:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:41 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences. Its association because there is no flip. The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller) But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it. Geript is a difficult player to work with. + Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.
Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths.
Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.
The other hard part is: his play is still developing.
He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.
I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves. I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses. I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.
P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs. So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful? You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal? Stop over analysing the key point i said is "i think there is merit in what you have pointed out" The other stuff was saying, I am not confident on giving a firm read on him due to my knowledge of his play. Henceforth, the watching closely. Dude, whether I agree with you or not; doesnt make me town or scum. It's not the agreeing or disagreeing part that's important, it's how you get to that conclusion and your conclusion didn't line up with the rest of your post. You said you (partially) agree with what I've pointed out, add more to the case, yet only say you'll "watch him closely". I was expecting a more firm conclusion given the rest of the post. I cant give him a firm conclusion yet. Its still Day 0; and I need to see him scum hunt more.
As I said, there are points of merits; that I want to see responses to.
Look, you either think I am scum, or you dont.
If you dont think I am scum, than this convo is donig nothing but shit up the thread.
If you do think I am scum, and being wishy washy.. by all means, continue.
|
On April 06 2013 08:57 Restraining Order wrote:
I'm not particularily interested in lynching geript.
I'm null on him, and he's not a good lynch in terms of policy either.
Alternative then pls?
Or are you just planning to cock-block this game?
|
On April 06 2013 08:59 Restraining Order wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 08:58 Mocsta wrote:On April 06 2013 08:57 Restraining Order wrote:
I'm not particularily interested in lynching geript.
I'm null on him, and he's not a good lynch in terms of policy either. Alternative then pls? Or are you just planning to cock-block this game? The ones I noted in my last post before, plus Vivax and sno. Those are people I am interested in lynching.
Yes Sn0 is interesting
he is a guy that is #1 pick; and expressed desire to follow a plan.
Yet, where is he in all these discussion?
Its essentially empty promises.
|
On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town.
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then?
|
|
|
@ArtanisXp
I would like to continue discussion regarding your Geript case.
Specifically, your qualms with Geripts wishy-washiness on whether I am town as follows:
+ Show Spoiler [Artanis on Geript] +On April 06 2013 07:36 Artanis[Xp] wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it. Translates to: =============================== On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie. Oh and I think you're pretty townie. =============================== Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me.
What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below:
+ Show Spoiler [Artanis WishyWashy] +On April 06 2013 09:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I had you as weak town before our exchange, and the post you made questioned that read, so I questioned you. At first I thought it made you null again, but rereading it I realized that your wishy-washy post wouldn't make sense if Geript is scum, because he created an easy way for you to defend him which you denied. Since I believe Geript to be scum that makes you fairly town. On April 06 2013 09:16 Mocsta wrote:
Lol.. and if he is town.. what then? On April 06 2013 09:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Then you'd be null again.
I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does.
Let me guess, the heuristic doesnt apply to your play?
Further, I shall ask the same question I asked Geript.
On April 05 2013 15:18 Mocsta wrote:
Im not sure why I need to know you have me as town though? Nor why everyone else needs to know?
Im asking because, Im still trying to figure out if that affects my perception of you.
|
On April 06 2013 13:52 ObviousOne wrote:... not sure what to make of this but way to leave yourself open to accusations of a scum slip. Wow that's really bad looking. Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 13:37 geript wrote:I figured out why I don't like the case on RestrainingOrder at all. In The Game, I got to watch both Bugs and Kita push absolute bullshit towards town's direct. It was well crafted bullshit, but bullshit none the less. VE's case is an exact example of this type of thing for a few reasons: 1. The townread/lynch stuff + Show Spoiler +On April 06 2013 09:42 VisceraEyes wrote:
So RO wants to lynch inside [Caller, Palmar, Decon, VE, Kierathi, Artanis, austin, OO, Vivax, sn0] before D1 starts. That's cool I guess, but some of those names sound familiar. Where have I seen those names before?
...
Oh that's right. In that OTHER post where he made a list and said "4/5 are townies", he wants to lynch 3/5 of them. Any little thing that we could catch where town fucked up, changed reads, etc. It's perfect to attack because it seems so simple and plausible. Town in general are not going to be filtering themselves constantly to see their positions, know where they stood on exact people, etc. Whereas as scum, we were quite often referencing ourselves to see what stances were plausible for us to take. I can't wholly ignore the possibility that RO may just be lazy scum, hell he lurked most of LX until his teammate shot him. However, it's stupid to think that this early on that scum would make a slip this big. It's far more likely to be bad/stupid town. This isn't particularly scummy.
How.. he was talking about context of being scum in "the game"
learn to read.
|
On April 06 2013 14:05 geript wrote:
Most of my games have been not at TL as I've only played 4 games here; 11 were on two other sites. I have a townread on Mocsta and Yamato. I think it's a weak case, but one based in having no familiarity with me and more likely to come from town.
I agree with yam = town.
I didnt read the full "red team prize" where he smurfed. But I had him pegged as both town and scum within the first 12hours of the cycle.
I would like to see some more activity from him, but, perhaps hes just waiting for roles to be released.
=====
Im heading out again. See ya later.
|
On April 06 2013 15:05 yamato77 wrote:
I'll post when I damn well feel like it.
Right now there is only so much to achieve.
lol
town and scum
should read yamato and scum.
Y the need to be so aggressive? It was a passing comment.
Do u have a beef with me or something.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
