EPTBoardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 2
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:22 gonzaw wrote: I've read your tags AND googled a number of phrases to see if you're roleplaying a particular character.Read my "Wisdom" tags austin. Scum have to always choose between risk and reward. WIFOM is a pattern for scum decision making that has set values for said risk/reward (risk: Town don't buy the WIFOM, reward: Town buy the WIFOM) However, there are more risks and rewards in this process that's not just pure WIFOM. For instance what I stated: Some scum picking [1,1] alongside scum Sno puts both of them lower in the list, "outs" the 2nd guy as scum since we'd now someone taking down a claimed [1,1] out of nowhere is scum. On top of that, the WIFOM bit can "fail" and people may still believe Sno is scum There is little reward in doing that, other than maybe creating more WIFOM in favor of Sno. The only other alternative for scum Sno is to lie and pick something else rather than [1,1]. That has less risks, although the "why did you lie from what you said in pre-game?" risk my be big enough for them not to try. I don't agree that it's awful for scum to double pick [1][1]. If nothing else, when one player flips, I know I personally would go "Well, there's no way that scumbuddies BOTH decided to pick [1][1], ensuring that 2/5 of their team fell to the back of the draft." That's the gut reaction I'd have, and I think what most people would have (See: Comments about "Well, gotta be a bunch of towns in these [8] pickers"). I'd be more willing to assume that scum were hoping sn0 would balk and not choose [1][1], or at the very most were saccing one pick. I don't know how you'd see both as scummy if one player flips and had picked [1][1], just based on the picks. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:36 gonzaw wrote: Or it's a townie thinking, "Don't want to let this happen again, but I'm gonna look like a noob if I pick vig to shoot this guy and hit town." If someone claims he'll pick [1,1], and you are town, you won't clash with him unless you DON'T want that specific player at #1, sacrificing your chance at getting higher in the list. Why would you do this out of nowhere though? You wouldn't, you'd either discuss it, post in the thread about it (if you just don't care), or think that guy is scum and thus sacrifice your picking chance to do so Remember, townies get the chance to get THE ROLE OF THEIR DREAMS, and they always play alone, so they need a very very higher incentive to sacrifice their draft spot. Scum play with plans and get "community roles". They don't care if scum X gets a high spot if they can get scum Y to get a high spot. They don't care if scum X gets a specific role if they can get Y to get it. They play as a team, thus they wouldn't care about sacrificing their spots to take out a [1,1] guy. Town would ("sane" town at least  ).Therefore, if someone just picks [1,1] out of nowhere even if someone else claimed so to is likely scum, unless he does the stuff a townie would obviously do in that scenario (which didn't happen by the time the draft phase was over). I just don't see the [1][1] bit as anything. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 04:45 Keirathi wrote: I do think he has some points. I think you're worth watching, but more for non-caller reasons.Do you think he has a point? Do you think I am scum? This post: On April 05 2013 15:26 Keirathi wrote: Maybe an addendum: If you launch one, and you hit town, then you get lynched no questions asked. Still doesn't make me feel the happy-haps. I disagree with you when you say that you weren't the guy who suggest lynching folks who hit town. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 05:07 Keirathi wrote: In some ways it's a "If you give a mouse a cookie" scenario.And an aside: It was a policy to police ONE role (well maybe 2...depends on how Russia works). A role with which no townie SHOULD be shooting anyways. Why are you so adamantly against that? It doesn't make sense, unless you're posturing to protect yourself/someone who is planning to pick America. If you suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with nukes, then you kind of have to suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with dayvig powers. If you suggest lynching daynukers and dayvigs, you should probably also be lynching any night vigs who claim their shots and hit townies. You're suggesting, at the very least, lynching SOME vigis who hit townies, if not all. There are a boatload of posts from earlier on why I think that/that policy is a bad idea. MZ had some too. I'm fine saying "townies shouldn't be shooting." See those posts. I'm fine if decon or someone jokingly/seriously says "I'm taking KP roles and blasting someone in the face every day no matter what anyone says." Well, not fine, but I honestly wouldn't find that scummy. I find the half-position that I get from your post, that townies maybe shouldn't shoot, but maybe they should, except if they do and hit town they'll get lynched. You're implicitly saying, "Townies, you guys should shoot, but only hit scum, kkk." Which is unrealistic to expect, a poor plan for KP roles imo, and just generally not what I'd expect from you. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
VE, dawn hits. A genie appears in front of you and says you can have three wishes IF you answer the following questions. Which vet that doesn't care about pre-D1 is most like his townself? If RO gets teleported out of the game in the middle of D1, who would you lynch instead? Which ocean is best ocean? How do you answer the genie's questions? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 10:15 Restraining Order wrote: Can you give me a reason why multiple mafioso would all pick the same starting number beyond mindfuckery?More and more people turned out to have picked 8, and more and more of them turned out to look mafia-ish. Suggesting that it's very possible mafia deliberatly picked people into 8. So i decided to scrap that idea and just not think about it anymore. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 10:19 Restraining Order wrote: Because "mindfuckery" is not the genesis of most mafia strategies. You seem to be suggesting that more than half the mafia team would pick [8] as a starting number. 2 seems low for what you're suggesting, or to be tossing out your thought that most of those players are town.Why go beyond mindfuckery? Mindfuckery is kind of what mafia do... If you're telling me a bunch of mafia all picked the same starting number, and all picked EIGHT, rather than [1]-[7] and being further up the multiple first pick list, then the ONLY reason I can come up with is mindfuckery, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense. And if it was mafia mindfuckery, they'd have brought it up. It doesn't do you much good to all pick [8] and then not go "HAI GAIZ BUNCHA EIGHTS, CAN'T BE MORE THAN ONE MAFIA IN THEM EIGHTS, NOPE NOPE NOPE." Now you're layering on the mindfuckery, and it's far more unlikely that such a play is happening than a bunch of people just picking [8]. So I don't think you can say it's mindfuckery. If it were, it's multiple levels deep, and that's not the right assumption. If you're town, you've tossed out the wrong assumption. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 10:29 Restraining Order wrote: Are you a smurf or did you just start playing on TL in LX?The early picks are a place of spotlight. It absolutely makes sense to avoid it. 2-3 people picking 8 could be done under the assumption that few townies would also do so, making it likely for ~half the mafia-team to land in the middle of draft picks - high enough to get decent roles, low enough to avoid spotlight. It is kind of concerning you try to dismiss it so much. Must be because you also picked 8. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 10:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think he's providing a decent service to town for now, regardless of his alignment.I think you are being stupid without saying anything. Anyone know if RO is a smurf or new? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 11:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'll point it out postgame if you'd like. For now I'm not going to.Huh. How exactly is BM doing ANYTHING that helps town? Point it out to me. VE, genie questions! | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 13:28 Mocsta wrote: This part of mocsta's case/post on artanis is straight up wrong, no?What I find curious about the above, is when we start discussing Geript and you comment the below: I find this interchange ironic, as you flip flop regarding my alignment much to the same manner Geript does. Artanis identifies what his read was at multiple points, and WHY it changed. He does so vaguely, "the post you made," "your wishy-washy post," etc. but he still presents a read and how/why it changes over time. I don't see how "I think you're town, but you'd be null if this happened" is wishy-washy. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 07 2013 01:23 Restraining Order wrote: I wrote out an answer and then realized the real answer is "not much." Mostly marking it for later so I don't forget, and just bringing it up. I disagree with some of the reads being posted over the last day, but this bit of mocsta's post stuck out as being something that I disagreed with not just because I read someone differently, but because I think it's actively WRONG to paint Artanis's posts that way. At the time, was doing nothing more than pointing it out.What are you trying to achieve with this post? I guess | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
If nobody lies, then everyone is out the 5 seconds it took them to write out what their numbers were again. If somebody lies, well then it's more than worth it. Based on what I saw in past PYP games, pick order and roles aren't all, but they help inform reads and later in the game help to "catch" folks who are outed just based on role/usage/setup/etc. If anyone is trying to find 5 scum based purely on the numbers, then yeah, it's a waste. But getting a full and definite list isn't bad for town. Scum doesn't gain anything from knowing who picked what number. Still [8][4] | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 06 2013 05:10 Shelvocke wrote: VE isn't reading/is faking a contribution. This can be scummy, but at this point in the game there are A LOT of players who fit that criteria. The second bit, VE being...hypocritical because he often is ridiculous and is suggesting people not be ridiculous is just dumb. I'm often an idiot. I don't suggest other people are. Some players are confusing/lurky, they don't suggest that other people be confusing/lurky. Heck, the VE personality in Personality 2 just poked at VE's claiming, which, if anything, should reinforce the idea that VE might not recommend to others that they play how he has in certain past games.^Mafia He's either not reading the thread at all or he's trying to fake a contribution as the idea that he brings up is one that has been repeated by a bunch of other players and is crap anyway. Additionally, VisceraEyes is known for taking ridiculous shots himself and doing whatever he feels like as town so it's very out of character for him to suggest that these types of players should be auto-lynched. Half that two sentence read is just...badwrong. The other half is true of a number of players, with no reason given why VE is singled out. And ze vote? On April 07 2013 05:55 Shelvocke wrote: 24 hours later. Not important because he didn't vote earlier, he couldn't, but important because discussion of VE has popped up here and there throughout the thread during those 24 hours. Shelvocke, who has really only called out VE at this point (apart from asking gonzaw if his secret scumread was snb (which he now adds to)), doesn't seem to care about anything that's been posted about/by VE during those 24 hours. Note that he HAS followed up on snb, looks to have reread snb before making that post. But his vote post on VE has more meat, more indication that Shelvocke is scumhunting, when he brings up snb, not VE, who he is actually voting for.If VE isn't going to play, we kill him. He hasn't done anything to suggest that he is town and is avoiding discussing anything of value. ##Vote VisceraEyes strongandbig also looks very likely to be mafia. In particular the fact that he considered the number picking strategy to be extremely important but then failed to provide any original thoughts is very suspect. He also seemed very concerned in his pregame posts about roles but didn't provide any insight about them after the game started. Do not like. ##Vote: Shelvocke | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 07 2013 11:29 yamato77 wrote: Anyone who doesn't want to kill Palmar is scum? Or anyone who disagrees that YOU want to kill Palmar is scum? I are confused.I wanna kill Palmar. ##Vote Palmar Anyone who disagrees with me is scum. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
The only real thing I've seen brought up about Palmar is his post count being higher than in previous PYP games. That was an interested find, but so many have been throwaway complaint posts that I don't even know they count for anything. Why do you want him to be the D1 lynch? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On April 07 2013 12:15 yamato77 wrote: Things to look into before voting him on that basis!Does town Palmar try to look involved at all if he doesn't care about the game? Especially whether he was active in pre-games of past PYPs! | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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