EPTI was trying to have a conversation with yamato, not make him angry.
RED Team's Prize - Page 7
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I was trying to have a conversation with yamato, not make him angry. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 05:14 strongandbig wrote: I took a look at acro's filter, I don't have too strong of a read on him but I wouldn't be surprised if he's scum. (1) he threw his vote around at the start of the game but most of his filter just feels more "focused" than I would expect. One guy at a time, really pushing. This is what I would expect out of either a town-organizer type or a bad-townie who thought he caught a scum slip, but acro doesn't fit either of these models. This is also what I would expect out of a decent scummer. (2) the reasoning for voting nisani was scummy as fuck - "ignore your terrible meta arguments, he's being anti town!" There's nothing actual scum love more than Ace's patented "you're hurting town" lynch. (3) he keeps using the word "Scumspect", I want to cut a hole in that word's flesh and dildo it. (4) one of his three big bullet points on why ish is scum is that his reads have been wrong. again, super scummy logic. On the other hand, there is some stuff I like in his filter too. Specifically, i feel like his suspicions on marv made sense, as did the fact that he backed off them a little bit when marv got more involved, and the fact that he still hasn't backed all the way off, as he well shouldn't. Who do you want to lynch tomorrow? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
strongandbig: Has literally done nothing. Completely overplayed the "Dandel is spamming" thing, and spent half of his filter talking about it. The biggest thing, though, is his scum reads. He's literally only had 2 the entire game (grack and Nisani), and both were 100% sheeps. He even came in and argued with Acro while I was asleep about why my points on Grack were valid. Then said "I could lynch either Grack or Nisani". Did nothing to push either one of them though, and when the day was winding down, what does he do? Sheep onto ME. Not try to get the person lynched that he's ostensibly been saying is scum. He's just flowing with the course of town sentiment. InsertSmurfHere: All of the reasons we've been talking about are valid. his meta reads are bullshit, over-confident in his read of prplhz, inexplicable sudden read on me, etc etc. There's just one little nagging thing that makes me question my read: why did he, as scum, come in attacking me+cora? If he's scum, he knows that we are (at least, very very very likely that we are) telling the truth. And thread sentiment is that we are probably town. So why is he attacking us? That feels more like townie paranoia than idiot scum. marvellosity: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18147671 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18147979 Be sure to read the nested quotes in those. On top of those, marv has been abnormally passive. He says its because he had a bad experience in Personality so he's trying to change his town game, but as someone else pointed out, he was playing like his normal townie self in Hydra. Why this game, and not that one? It just feels like most of his play this game has been all bark but no bite. He had 3 solid scum reads throughout the day (Smurf, Nisani, and me). Nisani was the only one he seemed reasonably invested in, and even then he wasn't really throwing his weight around in the thread. Just saying "hey, lets lynch Nisani" a bunch. He basically dropped the big case on me the buggered off. Never pushed Smurf in the slightest, as mentioned above. Maybe Hapa is right and he shouldn't be the lynch tomorrow, because his posting during this night phase has been more productive, but don't fucking let him off the hook. Nulls Palmar - Lots of unexplained reads, wishy washy stances, etc. Keep an eye on him. Sinani206: Points in his favor: He really doesn't post as scum. Marv had that much right. That's really it though. Not something I would rely on permanently. Scum points: The majority of his activity was after Hapa started calling him out. Only real opinion throughout the entire day was on Nisani, his direct counter-wagon. Everything else was either pointless bullshit posts. Feels survival minded. Probably town: Hapa Oats | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:01 strongandbig wrote: lol normally i dont like to omgus but what about the whole prplhz thing also what about the recent post on OO, did you write this up earlier and then not bother to update it? Yea, I wrote it earlier, specifically in regards to your day 1 play. I haven't looked at your stuff about OO yet. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:18 ObviousOne wrote: Okay, I was mostly asking because he pretty much hard defended me as town D1 and he has had absolutely zero reason to do that in this game when I was clearly a person of interest. Do you think a scum Marv would do that, and why? Scum marv would definitely do that. Go read this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16497364 Scum marv hard defended town kush, then VE came in with a red check on kush. I explained why I thought that kush was still probably town and just framed. Marv commented to me in irc that that analysis was one of the few ever on TL that actually made him think about how he plays scum. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:34 ObviousOne wrote: That's pretty clever. Actually thinking about how that situation applies to me, it's a good bet to hedge that I'll survive to end-game if I don't get lynched D1. Look at my town record: 1st newbie game: lynched d1 as town 2nd newbie game: NK night 4 3rd newbie game: win at endgame 4th normal game: lynched d1 as town (marv was in on that one and later admitted he did it for the lulz) 6th normal game: win at endgame (d2 in this case) 7th normal game: died by 3p N4 A scum Marv would know if I'm town. It's a crazy and unpredictable move unless someone was aware of it and brought it up in the thread. Do you think he's using the same trick twice? It's irrelevant because I don't know if you are town or not. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I don't see what makes him the best second target for the day at all. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:49 strongandbig wrote: Nah we should be lunching obviousone I disagree completely. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:53 ObviousOne wrote: iPod posting so I'm not quoting my reads from a little while ago but we can talk about the points regarding Sinani if you wish. I read your reasons but....I dunno, they don't really feel like such black-and-white-SLAMDUNK-we-got-scum reasons. Why him over Smurf/marv/s&b? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 07:59 Acrofales wrote: Firstly, it's not crazy and unpredictable. It happens all the time that a scummer decides to be the champion of the lynchbait. The knight in shining armor who proves his reads are good and he can be sheeped for the rest of the game because look how he knew ScrubX was town. Secondly, I am far from sure you're town, so if it's scum-Marv, he could just be defending his scumbuddy. In closing, Marv's whole OO is town, just look at <META>, is still one of the funkier plays this game and while I've backed off calling Marv sure scum over it, I don't see any conceivable way you can call it townie. I disagree. I think its very, very unlikely that OO and marv are scum together. Marv busses liability (no offense OO) teammates, not hard defends them. At least, he has in every single mafia game that he has played. Maybe he would decide to play scum differently this game, but I doubt it. And, I actually agree with Marv's OO is town read, for the most part. I am not willing to lynch into OO today, and probably wouldn't even tomorrow. He's playing 100% differently from his scum game, and much more similar to how I remember him as town in our newbie. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
##Vote: InsertSmurfHere ##Vote: marvellosity + Show Spoiler [Mildly irrelevant] + Fun fact: Smurf has absolutely 0 mention of any opinion towards marv in his filter, aside from lumping in the null column in his list post for no reasoning. Also, his whole Dandel meta bullshit was a chainsaw defense of marv. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Are you not reading my posts? :o Like you even replied to my post where I asked for someone to walk me through sinani because I wasn't seeing it. Yes, there are some okay points. I just don't think it makes sinani the guaranteed scum that you seem to. And I already explained why I think Marv is scum. Maybe you should do the same because you seem awfully non-committal in your read towards him. You've done everything possible to avoid talking about him. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 11:49 marvellosity wrote: No. I'm willing to get lynched this game just so I'm not always expected to play town-leader when I don't want to. I've pretty much been as forthcoming about everything as I could possibly be during the last phase, so if town is expecting some "town leadership" from me then I'm already dead. What the fuck. That's not even the fucking argument. I'm not calling you scum because you're not in here bossing everyone around, being all town-leader-y. I'm calling you scum because you haven't cared enough to do ANYTHING. You have weak scum reads and almost 0 pressure on them at all. You don't have to be a town leader to have an opinion and push it. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 12:02 marvellosity wrote: I pushed Nisani and singlehandedly made a good enough case on you that people wanted to lynch you. I've made my opinion clear on most players in the game, and the reasons behind it. Saying I haven't done anything is just incorrect and rude. Oh sorry. You are right, you did type some letters into words and hit the post button. But, lets take a look: + Show Spoiler [Push on Nisani] + On March 27 2013 22:06 marvellosity wrote: My feelings towards the shot align with Acro's, I don't get it from any perspective, except 3p which we don't have :x Although my filtering last night got interrupted by somewhat too much wine, I also agree with Acro/sinani on Nisani. I agree with what Acro said above about the 'timeliness' of his prplhz read. The kicker for me is this "scumbait" thing about Smurf/Dandel. I've read that case a few times and it simply doesn't come across like that at all. It doesn't seem like a natural mindset for a townie to take. It implies that Nisani actually already *knows* Smurf is town, and therefore his 'atrocious' case must be scumbait, rather than the more natural townie suspicion of maliciousness or simply bad play. Especially given at the time we had s&b's prplhz case, which looked much more scumbait-y. ##Vote: Nisani101 On March 28 2013 00:18 marvellosity wrote: So how about that Nisani meta, prplhz? Nisani looks worse after the Grack flip because he was soft-defending Grack from the start of the game. He called the case bad and said Grack hadn't done anything scummy. This ties in to the inherent knowledge of alignments argument that I made regarding his "scumbait" line on Smurf. On March 28 2013 01:42 marvellosity wrote: I still don't want to lynch OO today. As this is a majority lynch we need to start consolidating on targets. The lynch should be between Smurf and Nisani, I think. On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote: The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. On March 28 2013 06:23 marvellosity wrote: I'm going to go back to Nisani. He hasn't had a legitimate read all game, he went on to Acro and straight off again, he sheeped on to prplhz with no explanation and off again, and then on to Kei for no apparent reason as well. Plus the scumbait thing still gets to me. ##Vote: Nisani201 That's really it, until the last hour when *were* fighting to lynch Nisano over sinani. There were a few more mentions like "prplhz, what do you think of nisani" but that's just a question and there was no follow up. That's neither pushing your read not even having a read. That's just asking for the sake of asking. There's no meandering. There's no trying to figure Nisani out. It's just a few lines of "Yea, Nisani is scum" and then sitting on the sidelines for the day. + Show Spoiler [push of me] + On March 28 2013 04:12 marvellosity wrote: Beeteedubs, Keirathi is probably mafia. On March 28 2013 04:33 marvellosity wrote: Keirathi I've been reasonably suspicious of his play all game. Quite uninvolved. Also a lot of posts containing :o. I know that's a pretty silly thing but I find it quite off. I also found his case on Grackeroni over-justified, and over-explained. Palmar and Hapa had already said all there was to say about Grackeroni, and yet Keirathi feels the need to make a full-fledged case on him. These are general reasons I find Keirathi suspicious. I didn't feel like these were enough to really push him, but I'm bringing it up now because of the prplhz stuff. I would note that Hapa basically originated the push on prplhz, and then Keirathi came into the thread to egg him on and provide 'meta' support. Now, at the time I didn't particularly feel the push on prplhz was unreasonable. I was pretty null on prplhz so I could understand the push, to an extent. Anyway, prplhz has been in the thread today making quite active conversation, talking about reads, being open and honest. I had in my notes on Hapa and Keirathi to make sure I checked how they responded to this. Hapa responded to it in the way I'd expect a townie to respond to it, like so: Here's how Keirathi responded to it: He comes in to take a pointless jab at Palmar, and do nothing else of note. No comment on prplhz. For someone who prides themselves at being good at meta, I find it quite hard to believe that a town-Keirathi wouldn't have had things to say about prplhz's contributions, which to me mark him as a pretty bad lynch today. The interesting thing is that if Keirathi really felt strongly about prplhz, he could have started the push on him earlier. Keirathi actually argues quite a lot with Nisani, and finds him either wrong or scummy over many posts, and yet in the end chooses to pursue prplhz under Hapa's protection. If you read page 2 of Kei's filter, in the leadup to Kei pushing prplhz, he makes one jab at prplhz and yet repeated jabs at Nisani. Basically Keirathi has rode other people's cases, Grack and prplhz, overexplaining his Grack case, and railing on Smurf about prplhz's meta, but has since failed to come back and reevaluate his read; or at least he did come back to have a jab at Palmar and do nothing else of importance. I would lynch Keirathi today if I could get a majority behind it. On March 28 2013 04:40 marvellosity wrote: By another post attacking me, I meant another post not related to prplhz. I don't believe that you "hadn't got around to it" when your first post today was hours ago now. On March 28 2013 04:52 marvellosity wrote: Because your first priority as a townie should be finding out / expanding upon your read. I might even accept that the first time you came into the thread to have a jab at Palmar you didn't read the thread yet and went to have lunch or whatever. However your 2nd post, after you did all this, was having a jab at me. You didn't mention prplhz at all there, and you should have. You did respond to Hapa about sinani for some reason though. On March 28 2013 05:12 marvellosity wrote: Because I think Kei is a better lynch, dopeydrawers  On March 28 2013 06:12 marvellosity wrote: Interesting. Ok ##Unvote Corazon, you need to read the thread. Okay, so you actually made a reasonable case. But in the 2 hours between when you called me mafia and when I claimed, where were you trying to figure out if I was scum or not? You just say "yep, Keir is mafia" and that's that. You're not even discussing it with other people, trying to get them onto my wagon. You just make the case and then done. And it almost worked too, because town just sheeps you like always. Oh, and unrelated to the above, but still interesting: On March 28 2013 22:52 marvellosity wrote: Fair dinkum, I would say that I'm pretty glad I did what I did with the Kei case in hindsight; in my opinion there's a lot of information to be gained from the Kei push. Certainly I think the town is in a better position for having that wagon come and go late on Day 1. Obviously I'm not claiming this absolves me or anything, but the very analysis you just made on voting was made possible by my Keir push. You've told me multiple times that you think that pema-mason pairs are one of the strongest town roles. You think you did GOOD by outing 2 blue roles to the thread? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 12:34 marvellosity wrote: I have no idea whatsoever why you're being this aggressive with me, Kei. Because I'm a meany pants. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 12:21 marvellosity wrote: Maybe. prplhz should explain his vote, though. It's enough for me to fully rescind my townread on him, especially given he's basically defended s&b and Smurf. The problem with a prplhz-mafia idea is that it would mean a Smurf-mafia hard-defended him on meta, which seems really unlikely. I'm not even particularly sure Smurf is mafia anymore. Why do you not think Smurf is mafia anymore? Like I mentioned earlier, you had him town as you top (or one of your top) scumreads like 3-4 times during the first day, but just in passing comments. No actual comments on him until the middle of night 1. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 12:49 marvellosity wrote: Yes, of course I will try to find the two I think should be lynched. I really need to look again at Smurf and maybe talk to him at some point. Probably sinani and s&b are my top 2 right now. Sinani? You spent the last hour of the day championing his counterwagon because you thought he was likely to be town based on meta? What changed? Looking in your filter, all I can find is "sinani looks worse by default". | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 29 2013 12:51 marvellosity wrote: Palmar flipped town and for some reason didn't think Smurf was mafia. And he seems genuinely angry at stages. The sticking point is how he pushed Nisani, and also the fact that yamato is pretty known for *not* going after lurkers, in fact quite the opposite. Interesting point. Do you think I've genuinely been angry at any point during this game? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On March 30 2013 01:29 marvellosity wrote: You claimed you were hit and saved, so if an actual medic saved you then s&b dies immediately with a counterclaim What's more important than that though, imo, is that if S&B wasn't actually medic and was in-fact scum, he wouldn't have known to ask Hapa "Did you take a hit?" Because, you know, that's not a usual mechanic. | ||
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