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On March 28 2013 16:17 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Just fucking post it.
We don't have to have a "conversation" for you to post things about me that aren't questioning my methods of reading people.
I don't have anything written up, and I'm not spending time writing it up tonight.
TL;DR: Bad meta case on Dandel, awkward backing out of it (saying you didn't ignore his town games, but still saying "Is dandel an idiot as town, too?"), doing nothing to push any read even though you ostensibly had a couple, etc.
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On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote:In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote:
sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy.
We are talking about prplhz before this post:
On March 27 2013 22:04 prplhz wrote:
@Palmar If scum had an anonymous dayvig then why didn't they shoot you dead? Or just about anybody other than Grackaroni since he was causing quite the ruckus.
Everything after that is what I expect from town prplhz and why he wasn't a lynch candidate later in the day.
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On March 28 2013 16:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I fail to see the importance of that comment
Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless.
It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things.
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On March 28 2013 16:28 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:26 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 16:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I fail to see the importance of that comment
Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless. It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things. I'VE NEVER SEEN Which is the relevant part of this argument in the first place.
Where is the "IVE NEVER SEEN" in your argument?
On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS. And you fucking ignored me.
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On March 28 2013 16:35 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:24 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote:In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote:
sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy. We are talking about prplhz before this post: On March 27 2013 22:04 prplhz wrote:
@Palmar If scum had an anonymous dayvig then why didn't they shoot you dead? Or just about anybody other than Grackaroni since he was causing quite the ruckus. Everything after that is what I expect from town prplhz and why he wasn't a lynch candidate later in the day. Okay, so above that he just asks a bunch of questions for the most part, one comment about Rayn being frustrated. I'll take a look at Nomination. Early D1 nomination [town] features a lot of paragraphs and looks like real interest in the thread (genuine interest). Trying to get Oats/Moc to stop throwing shit on eachother (peacekeeping). Overall he looks committed to hunting scum right off the bat even as he catches up with the thread. That game looks a lot tighter in terms of being town than this game, but it's not out of the question. I wouldn't give him a green stamp just for his early D1 contributions but D1 looks OK to me right now looking back at it as an entire day. It feels similar to me, but his pokes in this game (again, for the early portion of the day) are much more brief and he pokes quite a few people with not a lot of followup except about Acrofales. Is Acro a person of interest for any of you guys, as well?
Ding ding ding. You hit the nail on the head.
Why was Smurf 100% absolutely positively sure that prplhz was town last night, before all the rest of what prplhz posted after the one I quoted?
I don't particularly want to talk about Acro right now. But feel free if you have some thoughts.
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On March 28 2013 16:43 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:39 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 28 2013 16:36 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I take my case very seriously
You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons
Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit. "You've been calling me scum, yet haven't pursued me. But I just want to call you scum and then not pursue you anymore" What? That's a gross oversimplification of this situation. The fact that between the two of you, you have one solid scum read (me), and that your strongest claim to being town is being masoned with each other is just ridiculous. However, what I do know is that town realizing this takes time, and during that point in time, there are other things worth pursuing.
I have more than one solid scum read.
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EBWOP:
And for that matter, you aren't even my STRONGEST scum read. In my top 3, though.
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On March 28 2013 16:44 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:40 Keirathi wrote:
Why was Smurf 100% absolutely positively sure that prplhz was town last night, before all the rest of what prplhz posted after the one I quoted? BECAUSE I LOVE BEING RIGHT basically
Easy to be right when you're scum, eh?
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On March 28 2013 16:46 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:45 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 16:44 InsertSmurfHere wrote:On March 28 2013 16:40 Keirathi wrote:
Why was Smurf 100% absolutely positively sure that prplhz was town last night, before all the rest of what prplhz posted after the one I quoted? BECAUSE I LOVE BEING RIGHT basically Easy to be right when you're scum, eh? Nah, just better than you. ;]
Yet so wrong about me and Cora 
<3
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On March 28 2013 16:48 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:45 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP:
And for that matter, you aren't even my STRONGEST scum read. In my top 3, though. I get the feeling I am on this list =[ Guess I better work on that. Before you go sleep which of the things I mentioned I wanted to talk about earlier will get us further towards the right track tonight in your opinion?
I assume you mean your questions?
The ones about the shit-fest and sinani still being a candidate tomorrow are irrelevant (well, maybe not totally irrelevant, but extremely hard to nail down) towards finding scum. If you want to do some analysis, I would spend time on the other two, and share some detailed thoughts about them.
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Mornin', all.
On March 28 2013 20:07 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 07:51 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 07:35 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 07:32 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 07:30 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 07:27 marvellosity wrote:
I'm also probably off until tomorrow. Not sure when I'm going to have time to work on the game properly because I have a chess thingy tomorrow evening. There's too many people I'm leaning town on at the moment, which is partly down to the fact that 2 of my 3 orange reads have flipped/claimed. Looking back through your filter, did you really use "Keir is saying ':o; a bunch" as evidence of me being scum? Like, I talk to you on IRC quite often. I always use stupid emoticons. How was that even relevant AT ALL? Would be like me calling you scum for saying 'dear'. (ok I'm still here temporarily) This isn't IRC, and at least I hadn't noticed/remembered you doing so like you have here in other games, and I thought it was odd, so I mentioned it. You know better than to make stupid ass arguments like that. What gives? Like I said, I mentioned it because I found it odd, and it was at most a small detail in my case against you, which didn't revolve around that at all. Anyway I really am off now It's not about "revolving" around it. It's that you included it at all. Hell, for the sake of argument, I went back and ctrl+f'd through my games for ':o'. I had a grand total of 1 instance in scum games (when I was arguing BL on the last day of GSL 3), and like 40'ish instances in my town games. And you, better than anyone, should know that I use emoticons in casual conversation. So, to me, that whole point was 100% an appeal to emotion. It had 0 basis in fact, and was only there to make you case look better. Do you not see why that is scummy as fuck? Nope, because I didn't have to include it in my case if I were 'fabricating' it, as it doesn't add anything in particular.
But you WERE fabricating it. And you did include it.
You're right, it doesn't add anything, though. Which in itself is the problem. I've never seen you use something so objectively NOT alignment indicative to try to strengthen a case. And even worse, you threw it in while knowing that I use silly emoticons all the time in casual conversation, yet refused to even check my filters from the database to see if I used them as scum/town. I mean, you know how to use the database, since you talked about looking through Grack and sinani's games. Do you just not know how to ctrl+f?
I don't believe that. I believe you were just lazy and lazy marv != town marv.
K, finishing reading what I missed while sleeping.
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On March 29 2013 02:58 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 02:46 Keirathi wrote:Mornin', all. On March 28 2013 20:07 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 07:51 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 07:41 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 07:35 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 07:32 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 07:30 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 07:27 marvellosity wrote:
I'm also probably off until tomorrow. Not sure when I'm going to have time to work on the game properly because I have a chess thingy tomorrow evening. There's too many people I'm leaning town on at the moment, which is partly down to the fact that 2 of my 3 orange reads have flipped/claimed. Looking back through your filter, did you really use "Keir is saying ':o; a bunch" as evidence of me being scum? Like, I talk to you on IRC quite often. I always use stupid emoticons. How was that even relevant AT ALL? Would be like me calling you scum for saying 'dear'. (ok I'm still here temporarily) This isn't IRC, and at least I hadn't noticed/remembered you doing so like you have here in other games, and I thought it was odd, so I mentioned it. You know better than to make stupid ass arguments like that. What gives? Like I said, I mentioned it because I found it odd, and it was at most a small detail in my case against you, which didn't revolve around that at all. Anyway I really am off now It's not about "revolving" around it. It's that you included it at all. Hell, for the sake of argument, I went back and ctrl+f'd through my games for ':o'. I had a grand total of 1 instance in scum games (when I was arguing BL on the last day of GSL 3), and like 40'ish instances in my town games. And you, better than anyone, should know that I use emoticons in casual conversation. So, to me, that whole point was 100% an appeal to emotion. It had 0 basis in fact, and was only there to make you case look better. Do you not see why that is scummy as fuck? Nope, because I didn't have to include it in my case if I were 'fabricating' it, as it doesn't add anything in particular. But you WERE fabricating it. And you did include it. You're right, it doesn't add anything, though. Which in itself is the problem. I've never seen you use something so objectively NOT alignment indicative to try to strengthen a case. And even worse, you threw it in while knowing that I use silly emoticons all the time in casual conversation, yet refused to even check my filters from the database to see if I used them as scum/town. I mean, you know how to use the database, since you talked about looking through Grack and sinani's games. Do you just not know how to ctrl+f? I don't believe that. I believe you were just lazy and lazy marv != town marv. K, finishing reading what I missed while sleeping. You're blowing something completely irrelevant totally out of proportion (much like the :o, delicious irony). Like, that was my introduction to what I thought about you (ok, it was faulty). It had next to zero bearing on the case in general.
"Next" to zero. So, it had some bearing.
I don't think that you can honestly think that me using emoticons is in anyway scummy, and I don't think that town you puts points into cases that you don't truly believe in.
But whatevs, I'll drop it. It does no good to argue with you about it.
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On March 29 2013 03:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Regarding Marv
He feels better. I liked his reads and observations overall. Nothing seems forced, and he brought up a really good point about SnB (Chrono Trigger Mafia) that I hadn't thought of.
I'm not convinced he's town namely because of his relative passivity. He seems to have an excuse for it though, so w/e.
Keep an eye on him, but definitely not a lynch candidate for tomorrow.
I was going to save this for deadline, but I'm starting to have some doubts now too, so talk about him with me now.
My biggest problem with marv is that he ostensibly had Smurf in his top scum reads for the entirety of day 1 (well, since page 18?ish). But never did anything to push him. At all.
He put much more effort into pushing Nisani, but went so far as saying that the lynch should be between Smurf and Nisani (which was before I was #1 guaranteed mafia out of nowhere). But still, he did nothing at all to push Smurf, and only focused on Nisani.
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Also, while catching up, this post strikes me as extremely...odd.
On March 28 2013 21:22 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 17:36 ObviousOne wrote:On March 28 2013 17:26 Palmar wrote:On March 28 2013 08:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar why did you agree to the Keirathi lynch pushed by your scumread marv and agreed by your other scumread me? on the off chance I was wrong. He (we, as in Palmar and I) were already wrong on Grack. It could be a fatal disease for both of us. In re-reading the thread (I'm up to p21) I'm leaning town on Rayn btw. You still leaning town on Rayn, Palmar? That's the last I remember of you mentioning him off the top of my head. I'm almost always wrong on my initial day 1 read, which is why I always revise the read before lynchtime. As for rayn, I don't think he's town. I liked his initial contributions but I feel some of the things he said since have been pretty strange. I will elaborate later. Then again, I don't think he's our number 1 scum lynch for tomorrow. I still haven't decided where I want to take that.
So, Palmar thinks rayn is scum, but doesn't want to lynch him. Instead he wants to lynch someone he hasn't even picked out yet?
How does that make sense?
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On March 29 2013 03:35 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 03:28 Keirathi wrote:On March 29 2013 03:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Regarding Marv
He feels better. I liked his reads and observations overall. Nothing seems forced, and he brought up a really good point about SnB (Chrono Trigger Mafia) that I hadn't thought of.
I'm not convinced he's town namely because of his relative passivity. He seems to have an excuse for it though, so w/e.
Keep an eye on him, but definitely not a lynch candidate for tomorrow.
I was going to save this for deadline, but I'm starting to have some doubts now too, so talk about him with me now. My biggest problem with marv is that he ostensibly had Smurf in his top scum reads for the entirety of day 1 (well, since page 18?ish). But never did anything to push him. At all. He put much more effort into pushing Nisani, but went so far as saying that the lynch should be between Smurf and Nisani (which was before I was #1 guaranteed mafia out of nowhere). But still, he did nothing at all to push Smurf, and only focused on Nisani. Well for the record, marv is null, and mayyyyybe slightly-town to me. The passivity really gets to me, but otherwise his play has been aiiiiight. No one really pushed Smurf yesterday. I mean its certainly points against marv, but that's not a compelling reason to lynch him. Thing with marv right now is that there are three people I want to see dead far before him (Yamato, SnB, Sinani), and I've been pleased by marv's contributions to each of their cases. And the best way to figure out if marv is scum or not is to see some of those guys flip.
The bolded is irrelevant. We're not talking about everyone, we're talking about marv. He said multiple times that Smurf was one of his top scum read and never pushed to get him lynched, even in the slightest. Does that jive with what you know about how marv plays?
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On March 29 2013 03:38 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Still don't like Keir/Cora, but whatever, Cora tunnels me all fucking day every fucking game, so I'll ignore them for the time being. It's lylo-type stuff anyway, with their claim and all.
You still never explained why I was scum. From what I can gather, its because I disagreed with you about prplhz being 100% town, and then because I attacked you becuase you believed he was 100% town when you shouldn't have.
You seem to be Mr. Meta this game. You've given meta reads on 4(?) different players, but refuse with me. Why is that?
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EBWOP:
Also, you said I was the townier of the two of us. So, if I'm scum, why did I name Cora as my mason partner, instead of a different teammate who didn't look so bad? I was the one getting lynched, not Cora. Or, even better, why didn't I claim a different role that didn't tie myself to a teammate at all?
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On March 29 2013 04:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 04:03 Hapahauli wrote:
You still have not discussed why Kei is scummy. Show nested quote +What concerns me about you is how little original thought you've put into this. It seems you're just riding off the trails of Hapa's accusations and arguments against me for quite a while now. What else besides this completely fucking wrong prplhz point makes me mafia? If you're going to call me your "top scumread" I want to hear it. Why I found Keir scummy at the time. Attack me over something I'm right about, and have no other reason to call me mafia.
But, that doesn't jive with everything you said about my in Hydra (assuming you are actually yamato, which you haven't directly said).
On March 15 2013 14:39 Promato wrote:
because aggression is something I do not associate with mafia Keirathi, so that's a point in their favor.
-Yam
On March 17 2013 14:32 Promato wrote:
Keir is the reason I think this head is townish, so that's all I have to think about.
Etc, etc. You seem to think I am extremely easy to read as town, but you haven't even attempted to this game. You're stuck on that one thing.
Am I not being aggressive this game? Am I being passive/not caring about the game/not putting in effort/whatever other metrics you use for deciding if I'm scum or not?
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On March 29 2013 04:15 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2013 04:12 Keirathi wrote:On March 29 2013 04:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:On March 29 2013 04:03 Hapahauli wrote:
You still have not discussed why Kei is scummy. What concerns me about you is how little original thought you've put into this. It seems you're just riding off the trails of Hapa's accusations and arguments against me for quite a while now. What else besides this completely fucking wrong prplhz point makes me mafia? If you're going to call me your "top scumread" I want to hear it. Why I found Keir scummy at the time. Attack me over something I'm right about, and have no other reason to call me mafia. But, that doesn't jive with everything you said about my in Hydra (assuming you are actually yamato, which you haven't directly said). On March 15 2013 14:39 Promato wrote:
because aggression is something I do not associate with mafia Keirathi, so that's a point in their favor.
-Yam On March 17 2013 14:32 Promato wrote:
Keir is the reason I think this head is townish, so that's all I have to think about.
Etc, etc. You seem to think I am extremely easy to read as town, but you haven't even attempted to this game. You're stuck on that one thing. Am I not being aggressive this game? Am I being passive/not caring about the game/not putting in effort/whatever other metrics you use for deciding if I'm scum or not? Now that I've had more time to interact with you while Hapa isn't arguing with me, you are townier, which is what I've said before. Aside from your sheeping of hapa in that instance, the only other reason I currently suspect you is because of how Corazon has been playing, but that is currently not worth going after.
This isn't about NOW.
You never mentioned me in all of day 1. But suddenly I was scum because I was "sheeping hapa". You're literally ignoring everything in this game about my play aside for 2 points: that I was "sheeping hapa" and that I claimed mason with Cora.
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EPT
