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On March 28 2013 02:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa can you explain why we are not lynching Palmar today, and if not today, then when do you want to lynch him?
Do you see anything townie about his play?
Do you see anything scummy about his play?
What do you think about his suspicions of marv considering Marv is probably town?
Also notice the fact that his list is basically echoing town sentiment.
Firstly, I'm leaning scum on Marv. His play is very "off" on this Day 1. Not enough for me to justify lynching him, but enough for me to trust him.
Secondly Palmar is very likely town. He's showing much more interest in this game than I've ever really seen him put into a game as scum. Just because he got the Grack wrong (which was completely reasonable), I don't see how he's scum. Also as scum, why would he shoot the guy he was visciously trying to mislynch (and he would have likely suceeded too)?
If you still don't trust Palmar is town, he's always shot really early as town anyway. If he's alive after a few cycles, that's when we look into him. Otherwise, nothing about his gameplay suggests that he's "obv-scum" or whatever you're spouting.
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EBWOP: Firstly, I'm leaning scum on Marv. His play is very "off" on this Day 1. Not enough for me to justify lynching him, but enough for me NOT to trust him.
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On March 28 2013 03:00 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 02:57 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 02:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa can you explain why we are not lynching Palmar today, and if not today, then when do you want to lynch him?
Do you see anything townie about his play?
Do you see anything scummy about his play?
What do you think about his suspicions of marv considering Marv is probably town?
Also notice the fact that his list is basically echoing town sentiment. Firstly, I'm leaning scum on Marv. His play is very "off" on this Day 1. Not enough for me to justify lynching him, but enough for me to trust him. Secondly Palmar is very likely town. He's showing much more interest in this game than I've ever really seen him put into a game as scum. Just because he got the Grack wrong (which was completely reasonable), I don't see how he's scum. Also as scum, why would he shoot the guy he was visciously trying to mislynch (and he would have likely suceeded too)? If you still don't trust Palmar is town, he's always shot really early as town anyway. If he's alive after a few cycles, that's when we look into him. Otherwise, nothing about his gameplay suggests that he's "obv-scum" or whatever you're spouting. What do you expect Marv's play to look like? What is different from this game and Hydra/Duel/MTG?
It just feels... "off". He's been more passive than I'm used to, and he's taking less charge of things than I traditionally see him do as town.
Vague/unsatisfying response? Probably. However I've played a ton of games with marv, and his play here feels noticeably different from his normal town play.
Wait what? Did Palmar outright claim the hit?
What are you talking about? I'm saying that IF palmar was scum (as you suggest), it makes very little sense for scum to order the shot on the guy he was trying to mislynch.
Much more interest means being a dick day 1 and pushing Grack wrongly, then being really really nice day 2, and not pushing ANYTHING. Right.
His push on Grack was wrong, but perfectly reasonable. People get stuff wrong, and I can see where Palmar's read was coming from. HIs logic was sound, and I have no reason to be suspicious of him for it. As for being "really really nice Day 2"... whatever. That's not alignment indicative at all.
Do you still think Prp is scum?
I guess so.
Duh. He keeps disappearing every time I try to have an extended conversation with him, and it's annoying.
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On March 28 2013 03:04 marvellosity wrote:
My play in this game doesn't look like any of those games, and my play in all of those games was quite different. That's a bad argument for me to be town.
Why has your play been different marv? You yourself acknowledge that you aren't playing like the traditional town-marv we all know and love.
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On March 28 2013 03:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im saying scum didnt shoot Grack.
I thought everyone agreed.
Huh? Then where's the claim?
Day-vigi's almost always claim right before or after a shot.
Prp tends to disappear as town too.
In duel he disappeared in day 3 and got mislynched for his troubles.
Yes, but he's also scummy with or without the disappearance.
Admittedly he's improved a bit while I was away from the thread, but I can't tell how genuine that is without seeing him post more.
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On March 28 2013 03:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im saying scum didnt shoot Grack.
I thought everyone agreed.
I mean fuck dude, this makes no sense at all with a scum-Palmar theory.
On March 27 2013 20:26 Palmar wrote:
Strange the shot didn't get claimed huh?
I'd imagine both factions would want to take credit for the kill, seeing as I was putting pressure on Grack. Since no one claimed the shot I'm going to assume it's a scum-shot. I don't think any townie would be this stupid, and there is a clear scum motivation to shooting Grack.
Look at the above post.
In your story, "scum-Palmar" knows that Grack got shot by town, then goes ahead and assumes it's a scum-shot very early on? Why would scum so blatantly lie like that when they know its a lie?
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Not interested in talking about Nisani right now. I'm currently more interested in you Yamato
1) What is your stance on me?
2) When you defended prplzh last night, what were you leaning on him? (Town or null)
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On March 28 2013 03:32 prplhz wrote:I'd would be pretty sweet and awesome if you could explain what made you change your mind.
I rather liked the last post, and you've been slowly improving overnight in terms of analysis. Combined with that is this lingering suspicion of InsertSmurfHere for his defense of you last night. Details will be disclosed shortly.
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@ Prplhz
On March 28 2013 03:44 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:33 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 03:32 prplhz wrote:On March 28 2013 03:24 Hapahauli wrote:
##Unvote
I leik prplzh I'd would be pretty sweet and awesome if you could explain what made you change your mind. I rather liked the last post, and you've been slowly improving overnight in terms of analysis. Combined with that is this lingering suspicion of InsertSmurfHere for his defense of you last night. Details will be disclosed shortly. You just read a rather big post and decided to unvote in less than one minute. Maybe you have 3rd grade reading level but in my opinion that's rather fast. You seemed very adamant about me yesterday (or whenever you made that case, like 14 hours ago).
As previously stated, the unvote was coming for a little while. I just needed to see a post like that longer one for me to confirm my change of mind.
Also I am a fast reader.
@ Marv
But here's what gets me... you played Hydra Mini just fine concurrently with Personality. Your town-style worked fine in pretty much every game except for Personality. So why are you lingering on Personality so much? It's a shitty, stupid game that everyone should forget about, and certainly nothing worth changing your tried and tested approach to the game over.
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On March 28 2013 03:33 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Not mafia
Not mafia.
Regarding the Town-Read on Myself
You spent a good portion of last night thinking the opposite of that. What gives?
You accused me of being "lazy" pushing prplzh (wtf?!?)... when I was screaming bloody murder about him.
What concerns me about all this is how lazy you are with this push on prplhz. I really think you don't know him well if you think low activity = scum in his case. What is MOST concerning, however, is how easily Nisani jumps in with you. Observe:
And again you just casually throw out the idea that I"m scum.
On March 27 2013 15:11 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Hapa, you scum bro?
Like, I just posted one of his fucking reads. Holy balls.
Normally I'd understand someone being suspicious of me attacking one of their "town-reads", but this is absurd given that you pretty much never followed up on this idea beyond two random posts and have been treating me as a townie otherwise.
Secondly, a big theme of your game so far has been to converse with me. This is exceptionally odd and objective pointless - why are you trying to converse and seek opinions from the guy who you think is obv-town? There's literally no objective purpose in this. Why are you asking me for opinions on Nisani rather than anyone you're suspicious, hell even null about? It's not a townie mindset to buddy with confirmed townies like this, especially when you disregard pursuing information elsewhere in order to do so.
In fact it's exactly what Z-Boson did in British Mini I. Same exact play.
Regarding your Prplhz town read
Lol for some reason I had assumed that you were defending prplhz because he was null to you last night. Silly me. Ignore this. Anti-climatic yes but w/e.
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Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment.
Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814
His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case.
Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine.
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So counter-question - talk to me about Sinani a bit. Why is he town? He's officially my top scumread nao.
##Vote Sinani
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On March 28 2013 03:55 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:51 Hapahauli wrote:
But here's what gets me... you played Hydra Mini just fine concurrently with Personality. Your town-style worked fine in pretty much every game except for Personality. So why are you lingering on Personality so much? It's a shitty, stupid game that everyone should forget about, and certainly nothing worth changing your tried and tested approach to the game over. I disagree, it's absolutely worth me taking Personality to heart. Besides, your main issue with me is basically the presentation. It's not like I'm going to look for mafia particularly differently (aside from making sure I spend time researching stuff instead of arguing constantly in thread). I catch mafia because I'm diligent and somewhat perceptive, which doesn't require spam/emotion.
Well it makes it pretty damn difficult to read you this way. Secondly, I don't mind the lack of emotion as much as I mind the lack of engagement. You usually take much more charge of things, and emotion is not required to play town-leader.
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On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party.
What has Sinani done this game? His filter:
1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM.
2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#497
3) A neatly packaged case on Nisani:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#809
4) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814
It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view?
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On March 28 2013 04:07 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:00 Hapahauli wrote:
So counter-question - talk to me about Sinani a bit. Why is he town? He's officially my top scumread nao.
##Vote Sinani Sinani is in my lurker-null category. But he's less of a good lynch than Nisani, simply because he came in with a case pushing Nisani when you were koo-koo for prpl-puffs. Coulda been really easy to just sheep you and start assailing me/prplhz at that time, but he didn't.
So what? Scum dont' have to sheep. In fact scum really don't want to sheep a mislynch wagon. They often want to be on a 3rd party wagon and look like they've made an original contribution.
But talk to me about Nisani a bit. I dont' see any difference between this game and some of his other town games. And as far as I know, people are getting on him for the prplhz sheep vote that he apparently made from his iPad. How the hell is that allignment indicative?
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On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself.
Since when does bad case = mafia?
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On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town?
It's fucking null.
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On March 28 2013 04:14 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town? It's fucking null. you said you liked his push on Acro, and how he backed off it. The push was bullshit and he was forced to back off because the bullshit was exposed. How you like that is beyond me.
Yeah but the way he backed down seemed pretty organic.
On March 27 2013 06:18 Nisani201 wrote:
I just read through Acro's filter again and I could be wrong about him.
I want to believe Palmar is scum but I've been wrong about him in the past which is why I'm not pushing against him.
I don't really know who else is scum. All of the current candidates are pretty bad. I'm gonna look into Cora.
This feels very townie. He discloses a ton more information than he was asked to do so, and even though the thoughts are wishy-washy, I can sympathize with this attitude a lot from a town perspective.
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On March 28 2013 04:15 sinani206 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:14 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:09 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 04:06 Hapahauli wrote:On March 28 2013 04:01 marvellosity wrote:On March 28 2013 03:57 Hapahauli wrote:Now as for Nisani, I just have him and Sinani labeled as lurkers. I did a brief dive through their metas last night, and basically arrived at the conclusion that they are lurk-tastic regardless of alignment. Of the two, I thought Sinani had a higher chance of flipping red. He came in and bombed a case at a time when I was railing against prplhz. Often I see scum make plays like this - slam down a confident case against a non-suspicious party in order to look original and throw the town into chaos. Furthermore, when he entered, he also randomly attacked Yamato and soft-pushed the current suspicion of the thread (prplhz) without giving any clear opinions on him: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814His filter reads a lot like clean scum-play, and his only real contribution is his case on Nisani, which reads a lot like a lynch-bait case. Also, I really didn't get scum-vibes from Nisani's filter. Yes it's short, and yes he doesn't justify his read on prplhz very much, but the way he pushed Acro early on (and how he came off Acro) seemed fairly genuine. Most of this makes no sense, but especially the bolded bit. His case didn't throw the town into chaos, and I can't even remotely see how it was ever going to throw the town into chaos. Given Acro had been pursuing Nisani already, I also don't see how it was against a "non-suspicious" party. What has Sinani done this game? His filter: 1) A really awkward exchange with me about OO not reading his role PM. 2) Prplhz suspicion he never follows up on: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=25#4973) A neatly packaged case on Nisani: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#8094) ...whilst concurrently making a snide comment against the person defending prplhz (and NOT commenting on his stance on prplhz) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=41#814It reads a lot like your archtypical "clean" scum-play. I've discussed this read with you before, and I've used it successfully in many games. If you disagree, what am I missing here in your view? The fact that sinani is pushing someone I think is mafia. Nisani's early push on Acro was nonsense as elaborated on by Acro himself. Since when does bad case = mafia? Since when does it = town? It's fucking null. Yeah, but you were using it to defend him.
Yes. What's your point? I'm saying a major reason he's getting pushed is non-alignment indicative. Sounds pretty valid to me.
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EPT
