EPTBrownie points to you if you point out your own logical flaw.
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Brownie points to you if you point out your own logical flaw. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 12:30 marvellosity wrote: Even more brownie points for you if you manage to discuss the stuff Mr. Smurf talks about from within this particular game! What's there to discuss? Nothing Dandel has done is alignment indicative so far. Though I'm waiting for our good smurfy friend to respond to have a grand debate about it. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 12:37 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Is he an idiot as town, too? Bingo. Have you read one of his town games? Like did you not even bother to look through one of his town games before writing your case? That's a pretty big mis-step. From your filter, that is what I surmise is your opinion of him already. If that's the case, I guess you're content to let him lurk away the rest of day 1 as he intends? Or...? Not at all. Dandel will tip his hand as the day moves on. I have no opinion of him currently. And I'm sure as hell not going to lynch him for some random post that says "LURKER MODE ON." It's an obvious troll post that shouldn't be taken seriously. Hell he's been the opposite of a lurky player so far. From this passage, I get the feeling you're lynching him more because you hate his play rather than because you think he's scum. What gives? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 12:49 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I've read Dandel as town and he usually attempts to justify his actions more so than he is here. Perhaps that's not your perception of him, but I will check again to see. Regardless, you seem a little too content to let him do nothing but troll this game. Your faith that he is going so magically do something different than he has so far is misplaced, in my opinion. Dandel always opens this trolly as scum or town. What's alignment indicative is what he does after the opening phase. As for me being "content to let him troll", that's nonsense. I know Dandel enough to realize that what he's doing now isn't alignment indicative. However he's very easily readable based on his actions beyond the opening phase of Day 1. Now questions for you: 1) Why did you ignore all of Dandel's town meta when making your case? You said you're just getting to it now, which is alarming. You're seemingly a competent player given that you're well-spoken and understand how to use the filter button. So how could you make such a glaring logical error when making a meta-analogy? 2) These quotes... From your filter, that is what I surmise is your opinion of him already. If that's the case, I guess you're content to let him lurk away the rest of day 1 as he intends? Regardless, you seem a little too content to let him do nothing but troll this game. Your faith that he is going so magically do something different than he has so far is misplaced, in my opinion. ...why are you trying to appeal to my hatred of his play to get him lynched? It sounds like you're justifying lynching him based on objections to his playstyle rather than sound logic. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote: The games I've read of town Dandel are him where he replaced in for another player. Perhaps it is my unfamiliarity with his general play in the opening phase of the game that you seem to have a better handle on. Fine, we'll play the waiting game you suggest. In the mean time, I'll look through some other filters. His was simply the most egregious at the moment. Hopefully some of the lurkier players like sinani and nisani start posting more. You didn't answer my questions. Secondly, Dandel has his entire game history posted in his player-profile: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/profile.php?user=Dandel Ion It's incredibly easy to find games in which he didn't replace in for people. It sounds like you cherry picked his games instead of putting in the minimal effort to double-check your case. So let's keep talking about Dandel: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397553 That's one of his recent town-games. Talk about his opening there and tell me if it supports your case or not. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Take a stance man. You've been doing jack. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:10 marvellosity wrote: not for now The last few games we've played together (in which you were town), I got the feeling that you were obv-town very early on through your engagement and care-bear attitude towards the thread. This game is anything but right now. All I have from you is a) A couple of non-serious early-game votes b) A bunch of wishy-washy attitudes on several players c) Some wierd-ass "180-thing" on InsertSmurfHere's case: On March 26 2013 12:30 marvellosity wrote: Even more brownie points for you if you manage to discuss the stuff Mr. Smurf talks about from within this particular game! On March 26 2013 13:08 marvellosity wrote: Their question remains - when analysing someone's opening play you actively chose not to research how Dandel opens as town. I didn't expect you to squirm so much with this line of questioning. ... in which you start off ignoring my point about Smurf glossing over dandel's town meta to criticize my approach to the game, followed by sheeping my point. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:17 InsertSmurfHere wrote: I didn't ignore all of Dandel's town games. I specifically remember games like Personality where he makes REASONED posts as town and manages to look town. This game, he has FAILED to do that. Is it that difficult to understand? Perhaps he has yet to do some kind of awesome townie move, as you suggest, but I remain skeptical. I'll concede that the opening point wasn't an overly strong one. Obviously you've managed to prove that he trolls as town. Grand, so I guess we just ignore him until he doesn't troll. All these random snark remarks like this make me think you want to lynch him because of personal hatred of his play rather than because you think he's scum. As for the "ignoring Dandel's town-games" thing, it's really really off to see someone make a major meta case and ignore something that obvious. Like Personality 2... why didn't you mention that in your case? I'd have a lot more sympathy for that point if you had brought it up initially. Right now, it sounds like your'e pulling it out of your ass. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Just so many options ya know... | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:35 Acrofales wrote: I am null on Marv. However, town Marv just got horrifically burned in Personality. I can see him being cautious and off his game. Anyway, calling Marv scum (for realz, not for trollz) today is pointless. It will just cause a horrific tunnelfest that shits up the thread. Either Marv will get back into his groove and prove his value to town, or he won't and we lynch him later. That's nonsense. Marv is a big boy and can handle the heat. I am more interested in returning to Smurf. His position on DI just seems too glib. Not sure how to say it differently, but the read feels forced and there is something weird about how he backs down from it so easily. What he says about Palmar hits about right, although I am more cautious. Meh, I need more info. Smurf, what is your opinion on Hapa?[/QUOTE] | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:35 Acrofales wrote: I am null on Marv. However, town Marv just got horrifically burned in Personality. I can see him being cautious and off his game. Anyway, calling Marv scum (for realz, not for trollz) today is pointless. It will just cause a horrific tunnelfest that shits up the thread. Either Marv will get back into his groove and prove his value to town, or he won't and we lynch him later. That's nonsense. Marv is a big boy and can handle the heat. I am more interested in returning to Smurf. His position on DI just seems too glib. Not sure how to say it differently, but the read feels forced and there is something weird about how he backs down from it so easily. What he says about Palmar hits about right, although I am more cautious. Meh, I need more info. Reads as a pretty typical scum-case tbh. Going after a troll because he's trolling, while ignoring glaringly obvious meta-points that could harm his case. He's bringing up the Peronality 2 stuff in retrospect, but I don't buy that. He had plenty of opportunity to bring that up in his case and didn't do so. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:41 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Do I really even have to tell you I think you look the most town out of everyone so far? I think you're a good enough player to know how people read you, Hapa. Acro asked that. I'm not THAT ego-centric ya know. On March 26 2013 13:42 Acrofales wrote: Have you READ the games in which Marv was pressured early when he was town? If not, I suggest you do. Neither MTG 2 nor Personality 2 were much fun for anybody involved... and I don't remember the older games in which similar things happened. Anyway, town Marv WILL be productive if you leave him to do his thing. I think that that is pretty much proven. Yes, and he becomes really obv-town when he gets pressured as town. Keep in mind that one of his best town performances was Rockband Mini, in which he had a lackluster early Day 1, got his titties twisted, and proceeded to disembowel the scum-team. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:44 Keirathi wrote: Come on Hapa. Really? That goes against everything you know about scum marv. Hell, it directly contradicts the big case you pushed on him in GSL 3. Why you using backwards logic? :o The GSL III case was incredibly situational. Secondly my post (that you quoted) is more about me being annoyed at marv's non-contribution so far. And given that marv loves nothing more than to spam up early Day 1 and get into the thick of things as town, I'm quite alarmed. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:51 Acrofales wrote: I am really surprised that you have Hapa down as obvious town. I don't think it's that obvious at all. Especially given Hapa's rather tricksy scumplay. Oh come on. If there's anything you should have learned from Duel Mini is that my scum-game is pretty easy to catch if spend 2 minutes looking at my meta. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 13:52 Nisani201 wrote: Acrofales seemed to be making a lot of sense at the beginning of the game and now he's looking really bad. He said this: The joking stage of the game is over and he's still trying to drag it on into seriousness. And looking back at his filter, he said a lot of things about how people should be interpreting OO's words without putting in his own opinion. And in general there isn't much real content in his filter. I think he's scum. ##vote acrofales Acro is already on page 2 of his filter in the first few hours of the game. That's not exactly "contentless" as you suggest. Also, I don't understand the bolded segment... how is that alignment indicative? None of this stuff really rings to me given that this is your 3rd post all game. What are your thoughts on some of hte other suspicions in the game? Namely prplzh, InsertSmurfHere, and Marv? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:02 Nisani201 wrote: The bold part doesn't mean anything, that's just what he had bolded in his post. The point is that that post is telling people to vote based on what's happening in the meaningless beginning parts of the game. "Contentless" isn't about quantity, it's about how much of his posts have his own opinions on things. Which isn't really in his filter at all. No no, I mean the part that I bolded. How does him criticizing other's opinions of OO make him scummy? You said he doesn't offer his own opinions, but I think he makes that pretty clear: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403256¤tpage=8#157 He doesn't think that OO's stuff is idiotic, but non-allignment indicative, and criticizes those who are attacking him. I don't know how prplhz is a primary suspicion in this game, he has 3 posts which all mean nothing. Fair. InsertSmurfHere's analysis on Dandel looks like scum bait. No one bit it, which is unfortunate but these things don't always work. Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things? I don't see anything weird about marv, is there a case on him? Because if there is then I don't remember reading it. Nah I just posted something on Marv, and I think he's being a lot more passive in the early-game than I'm used to seeing out of him. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:07 Keirathi wrote: Err, what? How is a meta case 'situational'? That goes completely against the meaning of what meta is. And its not like I'm even saying that I think that marv is town. You are right, he has seemed kind of emotionally distanced from the game, at least up until this point. I just don't see how you can use those 2 points in one game to point to "this is how town marv plays", and then use the same 2 points in another game to say "we have scum marv this game". No sense does thou make. Dos't thou know'eth of how pressure works? Anyway GSL III was incredibly situational. It was a case tailored to catch marv's lazy-scum meta, since marv had just played a large string of scum-games. This is NOT the case in this game. Secondly, the points I brought up in GSL III and what I brought up here are not mutually exclusive. The stuff in GSL III (confidence, lack of suspicion, etc) were more in relation to his voting actions. Anyway Kei, let's address your contributions to the thread right now. You apparently agree with some part of my suspicions, yet are questioning the most active/spammy player here. What's your objective purpose in that? Secondly, you're quick to criticize my opinions, but haven't put forth any of yours. What are your thoughts on marv? Howabout InsertSmurfHere? Hell anyone. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:11 Oatsmaster wrote: Dudes. Why are you ignoring SnB's horrible case on Prp? ##Vote: strongandbig What makes it scummy as opposed to a stupid townie thing? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On March 26 2013 14:28 Nisani201 wrote: Acrofales was telling other people what they should do depending on whether they believed OO was lying. He did not mention if he thought OO was lying or not. I'll let Acro speak for himself on this. That being said, I don't think it's alignment indicative. On March 26 2013 14:09 Hapahauli wrote: Scum-bait in the sense that InsertSmurf is scummy, or that it's a bad case and that scum will usually bite on such things? The latter.[/QUOTE] So what are your thoughts on Smurf himself? | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I'm not advocating lynching marv on Day 1, and I'm pretty sure I've mentioned that to you in previous games. However that does not mean his behavior right now is undeserved of scrutiny and pressure. 'Cause he's done nothing, and he generally loves spamming on Day 1 as town. Like contrast his early-game in Hydra with his game in this one. It's pretty darn different. @ Oats Explain your "random reads out of nowhere" plz. Especially Smurf. | ||
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