EPTThe Game [N]
| Forum Index > TL Mafia |
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
| ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
NMM XXIV Never forget!  Looking forward to this. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Problem solved. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 16 2013 13:13 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: /replacement Still haven't been lynched in a game ever, replace me in so this can happen. You've been lynched day one in: NMM XXX But I'm sure you already knew that... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
 | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 16 2013 16:01 Wade Fell wrote: We already have. Anyone who gets modkilled is eternally on my shit list. This game, modkills don't flip. But if someone gets modkilled, we'd get to play with Ace. Which would be fucking awesome. O.O Regarding Policy: Let's not policy lynch. It's stupid. Regarding lurker lynches: Town lurkers seem to be semi-prevalent in these bigger games, and as such imho there will be better people to lynch day one. Leave lurkers to vigis if need be. And as for "randomized lynching," we should be able to get some decent scumreads day one. Sure, day one can be challenging, but it's not impossible to get a solid scum lynch the first day. So again, no thanks. Regarding Setup Speculation: Until such a time we find this game has heavily themed aspects, I highly recommend we don't waste time on setup speculation and focus on finding scum. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 16 2013 17:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Tenets of the Super Awesome Scumhunting Team
Here at the Super Awesome Scumhunting Team, we're out to find and destroy Mafia. We have a variety of programs designed to help you, the aspiring scumhunter, attain your goals of a safe and secure future for the town. Not a member of the SAST? It's easy! Just apply here in the thread using the command "##Apply: SAST"! Anyhow, going to bed. Will be back tomorrow. I humbly request we focus on scumhunting. Thank you and good night. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 02:46 Coagulation wrote: The sast thing was clearly a joke. It was like an hour into day 1 and there was no one posting. You can just expect to be nailing scum 1 hour into day 1 when 90% of players havnt posted. thats fucking absurd. so omg someone makes a joke post to pass the time. Okay. I can understand it was early. But if we were to look in the here and now you still haven't provided anything that suggests who you think could be scum. I think what peashooter, and others here are getting at, is either post something that helps us scumhunt, or don't post at all. I am less inclined than others here to just policy lynch you. But you make it hard for us when you continue to spam the thread with emotional OMGUS responses. Hopefully you see where we're coming from. I would be most interested in hearing about your read on Grey. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 04:10 layabout wrote: since it looks like you mightn't get an answer would you care to share your read on grey? I asked about grey because I could find very little about his meta. I know he hosts many games, but he doesn't seem to have played in many. Best I can tell so far, he seems very detached from this game, posting often, but saying very little... Having a look at his meta would really help, if anyone happens to know a game he has actually played in (and not hosted) I would love to look at it. @Mr. Wiggles: On March 17 2013 04:32 Mr. Wiggles wrote: What are your own reads for scum? You've mentioned twice the need to scumhunt, and here you're chiding Coag for not providing anything in regards to who he thinks is scum, when you yourself have done the same. It's just more of the same general game play talk with no actual stances taken in regards to your own opinions. ##Vote: goodkarma Convince me you're not scum. Sowy, but I'm not giving you any scumreads until I'm ready to. You claim I haven't been scumhunting, but if you were to look at my posting so far I have: 1) Worked towards establishing a pro-town atmosphere, a reasonable early goal 2) Been pushing others for reads to get a better understanding of their motives and thought process, which is very important to getting scumreads As far as cases go, which aren't the only component of scumhunting: As I said, when I'm ready. And I promise you it will be long before the end of the day. But what I'd recommend you to do right now is to focus some of your energies on getting others to participate (not everyone has even posted yet!), and pursue some of your other scumreads. Because tunneling one read, and going into lurker mode thereafter is in itself pretty scummy... @Ryu: On March 17 2013 04:28 RyuSuzaku wrote: I find this interaction forced-there seems to be something off about how sandroba and greymist confront each other here. I wouldn't even call it confronting, really. I dislike sandroba more for the lack of reasoning, but I think it could be possible they are both mafia. ##vote sandroba Would you mind going a little more in depth on this case for me? From what I've seen in his past games, sandroba has been pretty lazy as both town and scum. The difference being the quality of his reads. From what I've seen so far, I'd say his assessments have been reasonable. What about his reads do you disagree with, or is this really just about his lazy posting style? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Here's sandroba's filter for fruity mafia, a game where he was town: Fruity Mafia | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 08:23 layabout wrote: goodkarma are you suspicious of VE or was the red text just there for kicks? also why do you feel the need to OMGUS Wiggles then try to deflect attention towards lurkers and those who are absent? I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Greymist First off, go through Greymist's filter and here's your challenge: find a game he's played in that is a serious one (e.g. non-caller) he solo played. I found one hydra game, and a caller game, but those aren't exactly helpful in this context. Hence why I asked. I'm 99% sure that people just spewed out the accusation I was too lazy to search without even thinking to look themselves, because that's their level of fucking lazy... I sifted through the 10 pages and couldn't find anything... Greymist is someone that has contributed nothing of value to date. What little he has said seems to be either completely not relevant to the game, general agreement to remarks made, or concern about being accused in the case of sandroba. He hasn't stuck his neck out at all, and is currently on my scumlist. He is my top scumread, as unlike some other lurker-type players, he's had ample opportunity to contribute and every time he's opted to provide nothing of value. ##Vote: Greymist Darthpunk Darthpunk is someone whose play I know can be stellar as both town and scum, yet currently I'm leaning towards scum. He has been lurking the thread rather hard, which is uncharacteristic of both his town and scum play. Yet what little he has said just doesn't make sense to me as town. He seems content to lynch the first (trolly) thing that moves (gerupt), and then to not followup in thread at all... This is definitely not pro-town, and I'm leaning scum on him, but I'd really like to see more from him. It's the biggest reason I've been trying to wait before giving scumreads, because I was really expecting more from him. Peashooter When it comes to thepeashooter, I was in general agreement with blazinghand's case. However, what sticks out to me is that instead of backing down, he's decided to maintain his case against coagulation. This is not the kind of move I'd expect from scum, as all it does is have him keeping his neck stuck out in general view. It would have been much easier for him (as scum) to move to a popular target and hide behind him. As such, I'm inclined to not vote for him this cycle and give him a chance. This is not a wagon I plan to get behind. Sandroba Finally, there's Sandroba. What worries me most about Sandroba is that lurking the shit out of thread is a scumtell for him. I'm thinking specifically of the scumgame he had in chrono trigger mafia, the only game I've personally played with him. There, past a certain point, he kind of just completely gave up trying. If he can't contribute any further by the deadline, my vote will likely switch to him. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + On March 17 2013 13:46 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay here's where it gets interesting. I've labeled the points and address them below. 1) I now have ~5 posts this cycle. What I asked for was NOT a high volume of posts. This notion that I was somehow asking applicants to spam the thread with nonsense posts rather than high quality posts is ridiculous, and not even close to what this point was designed to inspire. So strike one. 2) Again, a complete misrepresentation of what I was asking for from applicants. What I'm asking for is a last will post, preferably just before dawn but whenever over the course of the night because players in the SAST will be prime night-hits as they'lll all be obviously town and all voting together. I'm not asking to discuss lynches exclusively at night. Strike 2. 3) A complete misrepresentation of what I was asking. The SAST is an elite core of scumhunters who will no doubt have reached a consensus on who to lynch by the end of the phase. I'm asking no one to sheep, I'm asking for players willing to discuss and agree upon a lynch before the deadline. The last line referring to myself is in case there's any cause to worry about last minute shennanigans and it's necessary to move votes - but I vow that I will be completely transparent in my thought process around this caveat, and it shouldn't be an issue anyway. Strike 3 sir. Now what I find interesting about his disagreement post wasn't even the fact that he completely misrepresents everything I posted about. The most interesting part of this is how vehemently he disagrees with my idea, yet comes to no conclusion about my alignment based upon it. He doesn't even say it's suspicious - only that he disagrees with everything about it. ##Vote: goodkarma He's not only actively refusing to show any evidence that he's looking for scum (in the form of reads) but he's also against my super awesome idea of a Super Awesome Scumhunting Team for misconstrued interpretation of my objectives. Now, the really important part of my post. The following players are being extended an open invitation to join the SAST based on their performance in the thread. Mr. Wiggles DoYouHas ThePeaShooter Wade Fell If your name is in the above list, simply use the command ##Join: SAST in the thread and you'll immediately enjoy the benefits of a full fledged Super Awesome Scumhunter! Is this an OMGUS vote? I find this hard to take seriously. It's one thing to be trolly in the beginning, but "joke lynching" someone is hardly appropriate or at the level of play that apparently you are capable of. I'm guessing there's more to it than this, so please elaborate. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:02 VisceraEyes wrote: Joke lynching? Did you not see me color your name red? This is a scum lynch baby. Do you think I'm scum? How would my vote be an OMGUS vote otherwise and if you think I'm scum, where am I on your comprehensive scum list? It's very serious indeed. I intend to hang you from the neck until you are dead. How closely did you read my filter? I considered your SAST post a troll post, and so felt it was not alignment indicative. And as for discrediting it I felt that I had very valid concerns. Anyway searching through filters is hard, so let me help you along: On March 17 2013 09:15 goodkarma wrote: I would say that my stance on VE has been that he was being silly. That coag attempted to go into the group though convinced me that I needed to be sure it didn't gain momentum as it was not a very pro-town plan. I'm not against "town circles," however, if they're done right. Just because I had issues with Wiggles and he accused me first doesn't make it an OMGUS. He is lurking the shit out of the thread now. The mentality being, "I presented my case, now I don't need to do shit." That is a scum mentality, not a town one. It shows disinterest in the thread. As for "deflecting to lurkers," I don't see what you mean. The game was SO early at that point.. I don't feel you could call anyone that didn't chime in yet lurkers. Anything else? I will be presenting my own case before the evening's done, so everyone has a solid 24ish hours to look at it. But I typically don't like to jump into cases as quickly as some here. Call that scummy if you want, but it's my playstyle. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:38 GreYMisT wrote: Perfect, I was waiting for this! Does anyone else but me find this post odd? let me tell you why you should. First off. I have contributed about 0 things this game. Zilch. Nada. So much so that it honestly should be a null/leaning scum tell on me. Especially considering I have not been around for the last few hours or so. Its not like im spamming or trolling, I have been a non presence. Now normally this would be an OK pressure vote, if thats what this was. HOWEVER, he says that I am his number 1 scumread (he's willing to put a vote on me), saying that I have had ample opportunity to contribute, and am MORE than a lurker. What makes this an accusation post rather than just a defense post by me, however, is when we look at the rest of his reads. Instead of just pushing me and trying to convince town to get behind my lynch (something you can see every other town player doing, after all the goal of this game is to reach a majority on players), he goes on to make sure the town knows he MIGHT be swapping to another person, thereby setting himself up for a future vote swap. This is not only to mention the content of his reads here. Notice that he really doesn't have anything to say, and picks on the easy targets. More notably, is that he picks on targets with the same sins as me this game, yet not mentioning why he is voting me over them. I can tell you why, Its because my lack of thread presence, to a scum player, would basically have them salivating for a day 1 miss lynch. I am an easy, low risk lynch with almost no thread presence to back myself up. I find this post suspicious because it is a cookie cutter, "here are a few reads" post that has no interaction with other players, no real pushing, no new information, and in my eyes makes more sense from a scum perspective than a town one. I will be voting goodkarma until I can be convinced otherwise. First off, while you're here would you kindly provide a game you've played in? Secondly I call you my top scumread, and say exactly why. With like half the players in lurker mode, as scum I would have ample "easy targets" to choose from. But as I've said, and as you've failed to discredit, you have been around. Every time you pop in though it's to bring up another shitty one-liner of no content or substance. And yes, you've had an extended absence, but that wasn't even the focus of my arguement. It was based on when you were here. Only when you're accused do you seem to be inspired to contribute anything more. "Easy" or no, you as described are my top scum read. Even including this quoted post, everything you've done is safe. Edit: more content for me to analyze now apparently but going to be posting this anyway since thread is going pretty fast... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 14:59 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I need to think a bit about GK and the points brought up in his defense. So, I'll take some time to digest the information, but might not be back to post for a while. Since you seem to know his play intimately, BH, is there anywhere I can read where he was put under pressure or threat of lynch? If there's examples as both alignments, that would be nice. I didn't follow any of his games, so I can't find it easily without reading them all. FYI: Links to all my games are included in my profile. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:03 GreYMisT wrote: How many shitty one liners have I posted? You are making it very clear that you just looked over my filter real fast. Almost all of my posts happened in a very close time frame (about 1-2 hours together.) following that I made one post directed at Dr. H, and then went silent. oh and here this is http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=390080 Maybe what I'm trying to get at is with the time it took you to make those 5-6 "one-liners" you could have made a few higher-value posts but chose not to... And congrats on themed game win%, but sadly that still doesn't really show me how you perform in a normal game. I guess I'll just have to assume you don't play them, and I'll have no history to look through... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:14 Wade Fell wrote: Yeah okay his point is bad, and even pushing it wasn't helping any conceivable town agenda, even assuming he thought it was true :| As I described, I didn't want a poorly formed town circle full of sheep blindly following someone who for me was a null read... I tend to talk a bit about policy, which may be a fault of mine. But if a town circle is to be formed my motive behind my comments there was to make sure it was formed right. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 17 2013 15:28 GreYMisT wrote: Here is something for the rest of you to think about. What is a towns objective when making a case? In my eyes it is not to say someone is scum; it must go deeper than that. You job is to display why the actions you have noted make sense from a scum perspective, and don't make sense from a town perspective. The reason you need to do this, aside from the obvious, is that scum can have a very hard time actually finding and pointing out pure scum motivations. In his cases, GK really has not done any of this. He has posted things that are indicative of both poor scum play and poor town play. "Pure scum motivations," as in your case against me? Over half the players would qualify as "easy" "lurker-lynches" right now. Yet you seem to completely overlook this... My case against you revolved around you contributing nothing when you were there. This is something that made you stand out to me over the lurkers. The last few hours, however, you have made it clear you have an active interest in the game which invalidates my original case points against. That leaves Sandro, for whom lurking specifically matches with his scum meta. And that is why he stands out above the other "lurkers." There are literally only a handful of people right now who are active (none of which I have a scumread on), so if you choose to hold against me that I'm choosing "easy targets" on that grounds then I'd say you're being a bit ridiculous. I'm following my top scumreads. Tbh, I don't care if you think they're easy. Anyhow: ##Unvote ##Vote: Sandroba | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Regarding DarthPunk: Darthpunk is definitely looking scummy right now. I understand where VisceraEyes is coming from in his case, and I generally agree with his points. One point I don't agree on though, is DP's defense of me. I understand where he's coming from there, and I attribute it to the several games we've played together. And yes, VisceraEyes you can feel free to jump all over this as a soft defense or yada yada... But I know what DarthPunk's capable of if he actually is town, and there's enough doubt in my mind right now as to if he's scum that I'd really rather not lynch him day one. If he's town, it's an absolute waste. Further, if he's scum I'm confident I could spot it in later days. Ironically, this is pretty similar to the reasoning he used for me. But as of right now, I would say he indeed is scummy for the reasons you've mentioned. Regarding Grey: I really like ryu's case on Grey. With Sandroba being replaced, and these new valid concerns being brought up regarding Grey's posting history, I'm changing my vote back to Grey.: ##Unvote ##Vote: Grey I would ask in the next few hours we find two candidates to consolidate our votes between. As of right now, we're kind of spread everywhere, which is poor form this close to the deadline. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 18 2013 05:27 sciberbia wrote: goodkarma, can you answer to the point that was brought up (i forget by whom) about you at first saying that sandroba is lazy as both alignments and must be judged on the quality of his reads, and then later voting him for lurking? By lazy I was more referring to his posting style (the typical brevity of his posts). And by lurking I mean as scum he likes to completely check out of thread... I feel it's pretty self-explanatory. At this point, he's being replaced though, and the host has clearly explained sandroba's actions, so as I've already stated I've dropped my case on him. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 18 2013 05:32 kitaman27 wrote: These two posts seem to contradict each other. You initially found GreYMisT scummy, but then you changed your mind, thinking he has an active interest in the game. Now, you're back onto GreYMisT, without addressing your previous town read on him. Is he no longer interested in the game? What in particular about Ryu's case do you agree with? Specifically some of the content on Vivax raised suspicion. Even a haphazard look into Vivax's filter would show that what he claims about thinking peashooter is Yamato checks out. Yet Grey pounced all over it. This ignorance could be characteristic of a townie, but it seems to be a pattern with Grey. He showed a similar pattern in his case against me as is shown pretty well in Ryu's case. This is what I found most convincing about Ryu's case. If you were to look at my original case against Grey, it was based more on what he did with his posting time early. What I saw after my accusation was that Grey for the first time in the game was taking the time to put together a sizable case. I felt it was weak, but I didn't see clear scum motivation behind it. This was enough for me to consider him having an "active involvement," even if I didn't agree with his conclusions. I felt more strongly about lynching Sandroba at that point, and voteswitched. The part with Vivax as brought up by Ryu is what I found particularly alarming and is why I changed my vote back. When ignoring the facts like this becomes more of a pattern I feel it's more likely to be scum-motivated. Townies can be careless too, but the consistency with which he's careless indicates to me a disinterest in the game typical of scum. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 18 2013 09:06 GreYMisT wrote: Its because of GK's posts like these that I still feel like he is our best option. Care to elaborate a bit? I would especially be interested in knowing what you have to say about Ryu's case against you. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 18 2013 09:13 DarthPunk wrote: Look I don't want to get mislynched. Everyone who is here please look at my VE case. If no one agrees and it isn't going anywhere I will consolidate onto someone that isn't Greymist. Can we get our shit together please. It is almost deadline and the apathy being this close to the deadline worries me. Why not Greymist? What about his play has you thinking he is town? I think a part of the reason for the explosion of votes against you is you seem more concerned about defending yourself than getting out your reads. You're in danger of getting lynched right now, and the only real scum suspect you have comes off as a heated OMGUS response... If you're town, then doing your best to get all your reads out on paper is your best play. Help us to see your thought process and show you're townie. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 18 2013 09:34 DarthPunk wrote: The case against VE is not pure OMGUS. Please tell me what you think of it. Regardless OMGUS is not alignment indicative at all. I have my reads on paper. The reason I don't want to lynch greymist is that he has read as sensible and productive to me and as a rule I generally don't like lynching players like that day one. One second though. You said that you thought I was scummy before I started posting this morning. So it can't really be because of the 'OMGUS' case on VE (which is actually good) So why did you feel I was scummy earlier? before I started posting this morning. It had to do with your proactive interest in lynching the lurker cosmic, as well as your super-early vote of geript. I get that these may have been "pressure votes," but you must understand this is all we had to go on for you for the longest time. So in the absence of nearly any other scumhunting involvement, I would say it looked pretty scummy. And as far as OMGUS and emotional responses, yes these can come from town or scum. In my experience, though, you tend to be more emotional in your responses as scum than as town. It's something I've been looking out for. I'm not discounting what you've said about VE as entirely invalid. But it also didn't feel to me to be a particularly strong case. That you were ready to drop consideration of all other cases and beeline for VE with what you presented seemed odd to me. At best, it was a passionate townie getting into a heated argument. At worst, a scum attempt to redirect conversation. In short, I don't have you pegged as town right now (I would say leaning scum) and I understand why others are voting for you. My read on Grey is still much stronger though, especially considering his resistance toward addressing the case against him. I still stand by what I said earlier though about giving you a chance. I believe there's still the possibility that this can be attributed to your prolonged absence. You'll just have to work overtime now though (if you're town) to prove yourself. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm still waiting to hear your response to Ryu's case. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
First off, I find it disturbing that Vivax would use the mislynch of Grey as a scumhunting tool. It was something that he helped lead. So calling others scummy for being on that wagon is: 1) a bit of a double standard, and 2) doesn't make much sense to me. Grey was not acting at all like a townie. I would contend that he SHOULD HAVE been lynched the way he was behaving. Like how exactly would you expect a townie to react when you see someone fail to defend himself and go into full-on martyr mode like that? Should we be thinking: "He's trying to martyr himself. That feels pretty townie to me." I don't think anyone here would agree with that line of thinking. We lynched him because he was indistinguishable from a caught scum. It's very unfortunate he was town, but the blame falls mostly on him for refusing to try. But don't despair, as there still is some information that can be gained from the vote results of day one. Instead of looking at the votes on Grey, I would focus more on the votes not on the two major lynch candidates. There almost certainly are scum on the Grey wagon, but we only need to find one scum for our lynch tomorrow. And Grey was playing so poorly that as either town or scum lynching him could easily be justified. However, refusing to consolidate onto the two major lynch candidates is clearly anti-town. I would focus my attention on those who: 1) should really know better, and 2) seem indifferent about the major lynch candidates, maybe even distancing themselves from the mislynch. My two cents on this. I'll be back this evening to comment further. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 19 2013 09:34 Mocsta wrote: U SCUM Whats the point of this post.. you either like him or you dont.. this is overly verbose and you condemn him whilst proceeding to nurture him. U SCUM Leaning scum is a read. And encouraging people to post to get a better read on them is hardly scummy... If you think I'm scum make an actual case, or use your time more productively. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
If you think I'm scum make an actual case, and use your time more productively. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 19 2013 10:13 zarepath wrote: What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet. In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more. One reason for that might be that you spoilered the entire thing... Looking at it, as best I can tell you point out that Hopeless hasn't really provided much substantive content, and that his complete flip on his stance on Darth is odd. I could see some potential scum motivation for these actions, but honestly your case is pretty thin. You can't just go through a guy's post history and say "this and that are odd..." What we're interested in is scum motivation. As in: Why is it that this particular post is more likely for scum Hopeless to make than town Hopeless? As it stands your recent case posts sometimes read like summaries of the guy's actions. Which is just fluff that makes it ten times harder to read, and doesn't add any value... The Hopeless case was not that substantial imo, which is part of the reason people probably didn't say much about it. With a rather sparse filter and a replacement coming in, we'll have a better read on him after Ace subs in. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
First, yes I was in BH's QT for day one. His motive was he wanted to get a chance to talk to me, and since he felt I had a decent chance of getting mislynched he chose me for day one. If you were to ask me that's a pretty fucking townie motive. You can't exactly manipulate the dead... Granted, the actual QT was only put up for the last few hours of the day. It extended from shortly before his voteswitch to GM onward. His thought process he used in describing his reads is the same thought process he's taught me to use as a town player. The one thing that's stuck out to me though, and the largest reason I'd say I have a strong townread on him, is his rather avid defense of me for most of the game. This is a guy that's bent over backwards to do whatever he could to prevent my mislynch. As scum, there would simply be no motive for this. As far as his cases go that he's posted in forum, I would agree with VE's assessment that they could be better. But we DID need to consolidate our votes, so his voteswitch to GM (and lack of pursuit of his top scumreads thereafter who clearly weren't going to get lynched) does make sense to me. I'd give him day 2 to improve his scumhunting. I am confident that he will prove to all of you that he is town. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 19 2013 14:59 Keirathi wrote: You are wrong. I can demonstrably show a scum BH hard defending "town reads" when it benefits him. So my question then is this: in what way would it be beneficial for scum BH to hard defend me day one like he did? I just don't see it... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
One thing I understand that thepeashooter has said is that he was fed up with being harassed by BH, and his anger was genuine. I believe him here. BH's casepoint that he's faked anger is pretty bad. But when it comes to contributing meaningfully to scumhunting, I agree with BH's case that he's come up rather empty. Even now, thepeashooter seems more concerned with defending himself than with giving out reads. His recent case against Wade is pretty much an OMGUS. And if you were to look at his filter, he spends a lot of time talking about rather meaningless shit, like that Vivax and Kenpachi have no chance of getting shot... This is NOT proactive scumhunting. That being said there are a few people like thepeashooter right now (semi-active, but absolutely useless). While what he's done to date is definitely scummy, I'm not in favor of lynching him today. I believe that by looking at players with better-established meta, we can have a more certain scum lynch. Regarding Mr. Wiggles I would agree that Mr. Wiggles is definitely looking like scum. He is WAY more helpful in his towngames, and this post has been especially telling to me.: On March 19 2013 13:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Town my soul to keep, If I shall die before I wake, I pray the Town my soul to take. Then he'll really be dead tired YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH  I haven't really read too deeply since night time. I've been sort of skimming over the thread and reading a bit more for certain posts/posters, but that's it right now. I won't be awake to post stuff right before the deadline, so I've weighed between posting some stuff now about reads or just waiting, and I've opted to wait. I'm waiting to see what happens with the day post, and I haven't really gotten to pay close attention to the reactions to the GreY flip. Any post I make won't be much better than a Day 1 read, so I don't think it will help much as compared to the possibility of it becoming WIFOM if I die. I noticed some people questioning my decision making regarding GreY's lynch, and my last post before the flip, so I'll go a bit into my thought process. Basically, GreY was someone I was watching throughout the day. I thought he was scummy, and Ryu's post lined up a lot with what I was thinking about him. I wanted to see how GreY would react or try to defend himself, but unfortunately he never did. He just gave up, which put us in a crappy situation, because you can either weigh it as a townie giving up, or as a mafia ploy. Based on how he acted earlier, I concluded he was more likely to be scum, and voted for him. I said it was a bad situation, because when he just martyrs himself and acts apathetically, he doesn't give us anything else to work with, and you can't just drop the case because he stopped posting. I'll watch the thread for a little less than an hour if anyone has questions about some things for me. I don't really want to post a list of reads though. Like what the fuck? Between the lines, he's like I know I'm a vet, but I can't be bothered to leave the town with anything EVEN THOUGH as town I know it's likely that I'd be a higher priority NK target... I just don't see this as town mentality. It doesn't make sense to me how town Mr. Wiggles could be so completely apathetic to a town that could clearly use some guidance after a day one mislynch. On top of that he's a jokester with kita's concerns of dying. I just can't think of any better way to say you don't give a fuck about this game... I've got a scum read on him, and he's earned my vote.: ##Vote: Mr. Wiggles | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 19 2013 02:19 Coagulation wrote: glurio and DA will probably be who I focus on getting lynched day 2. I havnt really seen anything that makes me feel like VE is town so far either wich is uncommon going into night 1. This late in the game he usually has more town cred built. wiggles is also another player I have a null on but would expect to be feeling town on at this point. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
In case you were wondering, yes. I tend to be a slower poster. Ask those who've played with me, look at my past games. I'm not going to have the same type of interactions with BH as Viscera because I'm not Viscera, and further I had a strong town read on BH. Do you grill a townread, or try to exchange thoughts? Anything else? Or can you now finally look at my case for lynching Mr. Wiggles? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Regarding Wave: I'm really not liking Wave as a lynch candidate for today. The way in which Wave has defended himself feels like an indignant townie to me. After a rather stupid troll response to Kita's case, I feel he has put in a decent effort to defend himself. Yes, Kita's case is rather solid and Wave has acted pretty scummy. But I'm leaning toward him being a bad town. Regarding Mr. Wiggles: As for Mr. Wiggles, I'm not impressed with what he's had to say today. I feel that what he did in his night 1 post is pretty damning, and the lack of drive he seems to have today to step up his game has done nothing to convince me he isn't scum. His "excuse" seems to be that he can't spend all day playing this game. However, I refuse to believe he would need that long to have more reads than he's had (and some actual conviction behind them). As for Wave, the only person he's really pushed today, I'd argue he's an easy case to push regardless of alignment. I'm keeping my vote on Wiggles. And I encourage those still on Wave to take a serious look into his filter. I believe he's more likely to flip red than Wave is. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
If you're town, and felt inspired to copy paste in mason chat logs, why are there no timestamps? Wouldn't you have to take a deliberate effort to omit them? And if we assume it's true that VE became some kind of 3P: we don't know its purpose. When last I checked our objective was to remove all mafia. There are 3P setups where the 3P is benign or has some kind of objective that isn't really anti-town. Like assassins in LVII or some kind of survivor role. For all we know 3P here could also be benign to town. All we could do is speculate... Like what if The Mirror is really The Devil. To win, he needs to "empower" three different individuals. These individuals actually lose their roles, but are never notified. Or some other such thing... It's all speculation. We simply don't know, and quite honestly we shouldn't care right now... We 100% know that mafia have the means to kill us off, and they should be our priority. If we lynch VE today, it should be on the merits of him being possibly mafia rather than 3P. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 21 2013 08:37 Vivax wrote: Don't think TestSubject is scum, I like his early contributions. But I agree that the read isn't too reliable cause I have to go with so few, that only means that he has just commited himself to posting more in the future. Please stop spamming the thread and put huge quotes in spoilers thanks. You doing conversation like that only makes you both look like idiots and doesn't get anyone lynched. /moderation While I think VE is 3p by now I think we should try to hit scum today, but w/e So what you're saying is you think TestSubject is town but don't trust your reads. COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS... And now multiple times you've asked people to stop spamming, something you are especially guilty of... And then you say you're indifferent about lynching VE EVEN THOUGH YOU FEEL HE ISN'T SCUM. This post alone is scummy as fuck. And I'm ignoring for the moment the wild association-based theories you tend to like to spam... So here's the TL;DR: Push a fucking case and stop being a hypotwit. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 21 2013 09:10 WaveofShadow wrote: And where the fuck is TPS. I hate the fact that I found out he's town, I almost want to lynch him for his uselessness anyway. GK, thought re: questions I asked kita? Sciberbia what about you? How in the FUCK is town supposed to win this game when nobody DOES anything. For now I'm staying on Wiggles. My vote will probably stay there unless Wiggles comes back and makes a convincing argument against what I had to say. As for Viscera, I really don't know what to make of his mason log. It really doesn't seem to be a sensible move as scum to bring so much attention to himself like that. He could EASILY have edited out the part about accepting. He either was confident as scum that he wouldn't be a part of the group because it's a fabrication he made up, or maybe as town he really didn't have the oversight to think about it and just impulse posted it. There's a point against the latter possibility given he TOOK THE TIME TO EDIT OUT TIMESTAMPS. This guy's infamous for making fakeclaims as scum. But the piece of the puzzle that doesn't make sense to me is how this guy could possibly benefit from making all this shit up. He wasn't exactly under much pressure earlier in the day. So I really don't see any scum motive for popping in that mason log in the manner that he did. It could shit up the thread I guess, but the timing was absolutely terrible if he were scum. I would fully expect he'd play better than that. So I would say he's more likely town based off of that. The rest of his play, however, has not given me the feeling that he's town. I mean he jumps his vote at times with little justification. Day one, he lurked the shit out of thread WHEN WE NEEDED TO CONSOLIDATE VOTES. This is profoundly anti-town. Yet I ask myself would a scum Viscera really be so careless in becoming the center of attention. No doubt, everything he's done recently is confusing. But I don't see how the mason log in particular is scum-motivated, which is why I don't want to lynch him today. Because even if he is town turned into third party (which several people here believe), I'd much rather lynch mafia. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 21 2013 05:32 VisceraEyes wrote: Whatever I'm ignoring everything everyone says, making supercases and will post them up before the lynch. Hopefully they'll be of use to town when I flip. But please consider lynching into Wiggles, Ryu, Wade Fell, Darth Punk in my absence. Care to share your "supercases" with us? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 21 2013 11:19 DarthPunk wrote: OK Goodkarma is being useless this game. I know goodkarma and he is NEVER useless as town. ##Vote: Goodkarma I believe you're over-romanticizing that game. I solved the game all in one go, with one post identifying the remaining two scum on day four... As for being "useless," I wouldn't say I've been useless this game. If you were to look through my filter you should have figured that out... Have I had that ground-breaking case post this game that makes everyone's jaws drop? Not yet, but that doesn't make me scum. If you're going to make a case against me, at least put some effort into it to show exactly how I'm scum rather than some one-liner. I'm not liking how we're splitting up our votes yet again RIGHT BEFORE the lynch deadline. Like how the hell are we supposed to catch scum when we divide up everything so nicely for scum to manipulate the vote? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 21 2013 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Three of you just switched to Good Karma in the last twenty minutes. He only has four votes. Why can't we kill Ace again? There's like honestly no reason... What you just posted makes sense to me. The "not useful" meta argument I had doesn't seem to hold water, as I believe this is a solid case. While your day one was very scummy, as was some of your wishy-washy reads from today, I feel your case deserves consideration. Unfortunately, time is short. I'm going to change my vote while I look further into this.: ##Unvote ##Vote: Ace | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 21 2013 12:31 Mocsta wrote: WTF is this shit dude thats one of the best ways to catch scum force them to make quick decisions especially if we voting for one of them... Maybe if people were actually around. But with the weird hour of this deadline, that's not necessarily the case... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
But goodkarma, you switched too... There were like 4+ people who couldn't be bothered to consolidate on the top two candidates of the day (VE/Mr. Wiggles), and I thought fuck it (I know, not great reasoning... feel free to hammer me but tbh exactly my thought process). What I saw in Mr. Wiggle's most recent case was what I perceived to be a blatant scumslip. We're talking about the legendary ace. Wanting to hunt who he thought to be 3P and not scum. It just didn't make sense from a town perspective, so even if he wasn't in the game that long I opted to lynch him. But if you want a TL;DR for what to take from the ace mislynch: We need to consolidate on two candidates, and anyone who can't be bothered to and/or brings up new candidates late in the cycle should be looked at with extra suspicion. Maybe some people here didn't know better before, but you do now. So no more excuses. | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 22 2013 03:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Look, I'll admit that I misinterpreted Ace's posting. It seems he honestly believed that lynching me is the best move. I'm willing to submit to this. Wade Fell Wade Fell's play can accurately be summed up as overly arrogant to make up for shoddy reasoning for any of his beliefs. Take his suspicious of me for instance. I was in the thread for all of the hours leading up to the lynch. Presumably, so was Wade. Now, his "belief" is that I'm not 3P and can not be trusted. This is his reasoning for being overly aggressive with me and pushing my lynch. However think about his motivation. If he's town, then presumably he actually BELIEVES that I'm 3P. But to believe this, he must believe that I now know the identity of the Mirror - for if my win-condition has changed to align with the Mirror's, it stands to reason that I should know the identity of this other third party player. So if he's so afraid of 3P in the first place, why is he not asking me questions trying to discern the identity of the player responsible for my recent "turn to the dark side"? But Wade isn't interested in anything I have to say. He doesn't seem interested in trying to pump me for information, in fact he doesn't act suspicious of me at all. He acts like he wants to lynch me. That's it. It's fake, and it's not based on reality. It's all based on his ridiculous perception of my play, and biased to appear consistent with his story. Wade Fell is scum. I'm going to work but will continue to look over the game. This is a MASSIVE WIFOM bomb. If this is your "supercase" then it's just flat-out bad. Like why does town suddenly have to believe you're 3P? And why is it that we'd assume you'd know who the mirror is, when we know NOTHING about the mechanics of this hypothetical third party? And why would anyone probe you for the name of said third party if you somehow joined it, considering that telling us would go against your new wincon? | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On March 22 2013 04:32 Coagulation wrote: I would love it if I was DT checked so I could bitch slap vivax with the results. Just saying. Why would you try to direct a DT check on yourself? Even if you check out it doesn't mean you're necessarily town. You could have a godfather mechanic to your role as scum. And considering you want to be checked, I'd argue it's likely you're either town or some kind of godfather role. DT check should be reserved for scum suspects that are seriously being considered for being lynched. Further, it's good to check someone who's looking like scum who's historically actually going to be of use to town if he's town. Would Coag be that beneficial to town if he were to be DT checked and determined to likely be town? Not really... | ||
|
goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Although, to be fair, I'm liking Coag's questions. | ||
| ||
