On March 27 2013 09:18 DoYouHas wrote:
Laya says that 3p makes a LOT more sense as an explanation for the Mirror when I would argue that the opposite is true. If the mirror is a 3p recruitmen role, why does no recruiting mechanic make sense? Yes, I've harped on this before. If the town is stacked with 6 powerful roles, 3xVig, doc, det, vet, what sort of answering power does scum have? RB, mason, maybe a GF? That isn't balanced. What would make it more balanced is if The Mirror was a scum version of the Nightmare role.

DoYouHas calls out the scum teams roles and argues there is no 3p because it would be imbalanced in town's favor.

layabout

United Kingdom2600 Posts

March 31 2013 02:35 GMT

#3185

On March 31 2013 11:03 Ace wrote:
DP then you'd have to prove that Kita and Ryu are Scum. Based on the state of the game - that seemed to be a mountainous task. Scum played it well and made it difficult to happen. Can't complain about it.

Sure there are situations where you've got to play the odds and try to get help - but once again let's be realistic here. All the Town players are posting in public. Even if you somehow got to the situation where "ok guys, CC is on our side for now, let's lynch our top collective Scum reads and buy time" isn't going to work. The Scum team has perfect information and can easily screw with this. The 3rd party recruiter CC is only going to help you as far as he needs to live another day: he'll recruit the most protown player/confirmed town the next night and screw you. Both factions can see your moves and you have no way of stopping them from doing their actions.

To top it all off yes reducing Scum KP is an admirable goal but the Town has no clue of the KP formula, the possible roles (as 3rd party Recruiter pops out of nowhere), nor does it know the total number of Scum in the game. Your plan isn't a bad idea on the surface but that is a lot of information missing if you want to take a long shot.

Also DoctorH in the future if you're going to mess with converting roles, don't allow them to recruit Mafia. There are ways around it but this is one of the reasons we try not to deal with recruiters.

Show nested quote +

So what was the difference between you and VE? Just you got recruited by being masoned longer and VE gets to "dodge" recruitment?

Well i was recruited because i had no idea it would happen since i thought CC was a town mason so after a day and night i got a pm. But that's the only way for it to happen by leaving VE doesn't get recruited and remains town. What he said in the qt didn't matter.

layabout

United Kingdom2600 Posts

March 31 2013 02:40 GMT

#3187

do you realize how funny this game was for me?

layabout

United Kingdom2600 Posts

March 31 2013 04:05 GMT

#3214

I wish you could easily look through the scum qt, when does the "all messages" function cut off?

Just before i was converted the qt cut off and i was unable to communicate with cc outside of the thread.

I wasn't prepared to sacrifice myself when i found out that i would be converted back to mafia. On day4 for instance it would have been best for me to just do nothing let cosmic die and become mafia again. In the end i decided that playing in the spirit of the game was more important than playing optimal and whilst it might have annoyed the mafia team i think it made the game much more interesting.

layabout

United Kingdom2600 Posts

March 31 2013 04:52 GMT

#3226

I think posts aren't treated with the same value that they used to be and that makes me sad.

I remember having a 12 page filter in purgatoryand those posts were LONG and full of big spoilers. After that game i realized i had been putting too much time in and have made a conscious effort to take more time off because of the negative impact it was having on my life. But that amount of posting doesn't even sound that high anymore. I post 20-40 times per cycle(day+night) and i labelled a lurker.

Before the start of this game Dr.h made sure to link to guides and asked us to think about our posts. Day1 was moving quite slowly at first and i think he said in irc that he was happy that people were taking the time to think before posting. But as the game went on the thread was filled with hundreds of careless posts and it reached the point where reading let alone analyzing was a task. When people make an effort to consolidate their posts it becomes much easier to follow their train of thought and to know where they stand. When you post a lot or your posts are short people have to piece the bits together and try to find context. And when you post a lot and get into arguments and claim things you don't need to people don't want to try to analyze you. I wonder how many people were deliberately not filtering one of Wade fell, VisceraEyes and Mocsta? As town i might skim but there is no way i am delving through each of their posts in detail.

Posting a lot can be an effective way to play but for me the important thing to do as any alignment is to think what the point of your post is. Every time you post in the thread you should have a reason for making that post and it should further your teams goals. Sometimes there is an important question that needs to be asked, somebody might need prodding or maybe you have a case you can use to nail your target. At the moment it feel like lot's of people are posting conversationally or for the sake of it and it makes it far more difficult for the town to focus. It is possible to have a VE length filter with most or all of it being purposeful, but if you try it and don't post effectively then you are being a big detriment to town.

layabout

United Kingdom2600 Posts

April 01 2013 00:45 GMT

#3287

On March 31 2013 14:50 Mocsta wrote:

Show nested quote +

Agree in full.
I think I commented a similar thing in the obsqt.

Im still not sure whether layabout knew he would re-convert though?

I asked when kitaman27 mentioned chaoser in lotr but i never told my team. So around day3.

Seems like there is a lot of confusion about what actually happened to me since the scum qt is a bitch to me and that's where the information is so i will try to clarify some things:
I was masoned a few hours before the end of day1 and a few hours into day2 was told to stop talking in the mason qt and got a pm telling me i had to stop cosmic getting lynched and that he was immune to night actions.

When i was converted i wanted to bus but since that would be ruining the game i decided to keep it to myself unless cosmic became an easy lynch. So i just tried to play like mafia and wanted to help my team win with 3p.

When i was converted i had no idea it would happen. I believed that cosmic was a town mason and i didn't opt out because i forgot the OP mentioned 3p roles. I also saw it as a chance to look townie to him and thought that only scum would be scared of being masoned. We just discussed reads for a bit.

I intended to push cosmicomics if he didn't call BH scum after BH claimed mason and had said so to BH. But before he came back to thread i was recruited.

After VE outed the mirror role i realized that my team had enough information to figure out that i was recruited. But i stayed silent.

On day 3 there were a number of townies pushing cosmicomics and since my team knew he had mason powers he was the best target for us to try to lynch so i decided to tell them that i had been converted and i continue playing for a mafia + 3p win.

On day4 i would have been best off letting cosmic die and winning with mafia. But since that would have been against the spirit of the game and since my team decided to put me in that position i tried to push kitaman27, i still don't know why you ignored cc's case. I thought i was a really good case and after he claimed mirror kitaman should have been lynched.

I was not angry about being converted, it was quite fun to play and it was really nice knowing so much more about the set-up than anyone else. I held all of the cards but could use them without ruining the game. But i think that the role is broken unless you try to play it as intended. Imagine if i hadn't told my team and cosmic had mirror claimed to me like he did with VE. I could just hand him the scum team and push them without fear of them punishing cc and bus them knowing that i am secure in my wincon and he isn't in danger of being lynched for days. I think having to keep another player alive is a bad win-condition. Because the biggest factor in whether or not they die is how they play and not how i play. The win-condition reverting upon cosmics death creates situations in which mirror images are better off letting him die and i think it would be better if recruits died with him.

I also think this set-up was a hard win for mafia compared to others, town had 3 vigis, medic, cop, and it took 2(?) modkills 1 mis vig shot, 4 town mislynches and a 3p lynch vs 1 correct vig shot and a vet hit on town's side, for the mafia team to win. When you add in the 3p there are too many ways for the mafia to lose players outside of the lynch without being able to protect themselves and i think mafia medic would have been a good addition. I was also disappointed that the rolenames had such a small impact on the game.