Hydra Mini Mafia

On March 13 2013 22:12 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

it was not bad and you know it we dont lynch bullshit we lynch scum.

But i agree with you on the casters they seem to not want to partake on the discussion at all and add nothing but long posts that say noting in order to look like they are contributing,

On March 13 2013 22:20 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

how does me sheeping off of marv make me mafia dear?

On March 13 2013 22:24 FiveTouch wrote:


Like that destroyed game LVIII? Ok dear.

On March 13 2013 22:49 DrParnassus wrote:
Sign your posts so I know who to shout at Dirk Hardpec.

##Vote: TLCastingGolems
Your vote clearly came after the pressure that was applied, why not earlier? Why must we prod and poke the answers out of you?

On March 13 2013 22:06 FiveTouch wrote:
Some really annoying arguments that don't look very important. Usually townies argue like this.

iamp's question at the start of the game was bad. TLCastingGolem's summarising is far worse.

##Vote: TLCastingGolems

On March 13 2013 22:23 FiveTouch wrote:
Can we start getting the votes on CastingGolem please.

I want to see if he's willing to continue playing against his win-con when the lynch is hanging over him. If he is, then we should carry through and kill him.

Let's go.

On March 13 2013 22:30 FiveTouch wrote:


your entire filter, bish.

On March 13 2013 22:56 FiveTouch wrote:
why are ppl voting CastingGolems when he's at least willing to do something?

Dirk doesn't want to play the game, let's show him the door. Plus the contradiction I already mentioned.

On March 14 2013 02:05 Promato wrote:


moc/oats goes back to their newbie games. I usually find just letting them yell at each other and ignoring their opinions of each other is safest.

Kier and palmar seem to be absent. I think this is just marv and bugs yelling at each other. I need my stupid other head here so i can talk some things over with him.

I'm gone until Yam comes back. Expect nothing from me until he shows he face.

On March 14 2013 03:49 FiveTouch wrote:


Then:


Really Hapa? You literally called out Golems for doing that in the EXACT SAME POST THAT YOU DO IT.

On March 14 2013 03:55 FiveTouch wrote:

My reading comprehension fails.

Carry on.

~Keir

On March 14 2013 03:59 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Eh no point in trying to peg the scum-team in the first few hours. We have a ways to go before we can get accurate reads. Both your top reads seem reasonable.

Though you said you had 3/4 reads. Who are the other 1/2?

On March 14 2013 04:12 FiveTouch wrote:


how about you go screw yourself?

I'm playing perfectly seriously. I'm voting for a player who has said previously that he likes to troll as mafia, and all he has done so far is troll.

This is absolutely the most compelling evidence of anyone in the thread so far.

~marv

On March 14 2013 04:12 FiveTouch wrote:


how about you go screw yourself?

I'm playing perfectly seriously. I'm voting for a player who has said previously that he likes to troll as mafia, and all he has done so far is troll.

This is absolutely the most compelling evidence of anyone in the thread so far.

~marv

On March 14 2013 04:33 FiveTouch wrote:
This isn't LVIII, this is bugs. There are good reasons bugs is town? Please enlighten me.

On March 14 2013 11:28 FiveTouch wrote:
So, I'm reading through all these posts soft-accusing (read: discrediting) marv, but I still can't find a real reason that is even discussable. Closest thing I see is marv is "being aggressive, which isn't like town marv".

First off, town marv is aggressive when he needs to be, or really believes that he is right. I can go look up games for specific examples if you want me to, but it seems pretty obvious to me that you're either just making bullshit up, or judging off of a VERY limited sample size. Meta doesn't work like that. Don't fucking use meta if you don't understand how to use it properly.

Secondly, show me a game where scum marv was hyper-aggressive. Go on. I'll wait.

On March 14 2013 12:40 Mocsta wrote:
I chose not to call you scum, because I haven't seen anything specific that makes me think you are scum.
My concern is exactly as I detailed. I expect a town Marv to be blindingly obvious (to me); and I am not getting that.

Your emphasis on interpreting matters that I have explained simply and explicitly is not improving my opinion on your hydra.

Everything I wrote has been clear and to the point: so I am struggling to ascertain where your over-reactions originate from.

==============

Regardless let us continue discourse please: so what if I want to talk about you.

Why is that of so much concern to you; that you need to interject and apply immediate counter-pressure?

(moc)

On March 14 2013 12:44 FiveTouch wrote:

Because your accusations have been completely unfounded. You've just been saying stuff about marv's meta without backing any of it up. Basically you've been working super hard to discredit us by soft-accusing us repeatedly and blowing hot air up everyone's ass, but haven't done jack shit about it.

On March 14 2013 12:44 FiveTouch wrote:

Because your accusations have been completely unfounded. You've just been saying stuff about marv's meta without backing any of it up. Basically you've been working super hard to discredit us by soft-accusing us repeatedly and blowing hot air up everyone's ass, but haven't done jack shit about it.

On March 14 2013 02:02 ObliviousEyes wrote:
I'm more interested in what comes out of FiveTouch/WillNeverReadVEsPostsEver(DirkHardpec). Presumably, that's 2 hydras with four players who should know better than they appear to.

On March 14 2013 13:40 FiveTouch wrote:

No. Fuck that. I'll shut up when he's provided a satisfactory reason for me being scum, since he's spent so much time talking about it. He's "contributing" without actually doing anything. That's not gonna fly, and I'll keep pressuring him until he gives me a reason not to.

[b]Of course I find my "other half" town because he shares my alignment. What a stupid statement. None of us in this game are separate entities. Yea, every individual player is accountable not only for his actions, but those of his partner too. I am marv, marv is me. Just like you == yamato.

On March 14 2013 19:21 DrParnassus wrote:
Lets talk about marv since nothing will happen with wittyhydra if he doesnt post.

Unusually quick to get into fights is rather subjective I think, so what else makes marv scum? Because he thinks you are scum? Or?

/oats

On March 14 2013 23:08 FiveTouch wrote:


I simply cannot refute this.

~marv

P.S. I would note that last time this post was made, the guy was town. Just sayin' like.

On March 15 2013 02:12 ObliviousEyes wrote:
Okay so I woke up, saw Dirk spamming some more, and decided that yeah, I think I wanna kill it. He's actively trying to keep us from scumhunting. ACTIVELY. There's purpose in the way he's posting, and it's not a town purpose.

The way I see it is: do we lynch a lurker with literally nothing relevant in his filter? Or do we lynch someone who is actively not trying to find scum? Again he makes it seem as though he thinks marv is scum, and again has failed to provide any kind of reasoning beyond "he's a big ol' meanie". If his spam "marv is scum" post can be believed, he seems to think marv is scum. So why not try and get marv lynched? Both Bugs AND Palmar (AND syllo if he's all up in there too) know that "marv is scum" isn't going to sway anyone.

Kill Dirk. He gots to be scum yo.

On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'

Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa.

On March 15 2013 15:04 DrParnassus wrote:


Iamp/Hapa hydra has a pretty big filter this game though, how can you say that Iamp isnt being in the spotlight?

On March 15 2013 15:34 FiveTouch wrote:

Well, I dont think that being spammy in itself is a town tell, but I do think Hapa has been decently interested in the game, and giving some useful insights.

I was kind of like Throats, leaning town on Hapa, leaning scum on iamp. But the WIFOMy iamp thing is enough that I'm pretty okay with them for now.

Now, what does that mean about the big case from Golems about ObsQT?

On March 16 2013 00:05 FiveTouch wrote:
fine, I'll be serious for a moment, even though I think you're hilarious.

1) what you're describing isn't my lazy scumplay, it's an outright slip. Even in my 'lazy' scumgames I don't outright slip. I'm too good, too meticulous. You know this.

2) Given the flip, and the play apart from it, it seems pretty likely to me that Dirk is mafia, so looking at who helped moved the lynch from Dirk to Witty makes sense.

~marv

On March 16 2013 00:30 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

do you stand by this statement as fact.

On March 16 2013 01:27 FiveTouch wrote:


yes. apart from that tiny tiny slip no-one found in NMM3 and that you only know about because I told you.

On March 15 2013 18:51 Moology wrote:
Now (Essentially a last will)

My concerns are currently with the following teams

(1) Golems - They seem to have listened to feedback. I want to see a bit more from them before deciding which side of null they are going. But it is a positive from less experienced players to take criticisms on board.

(2) Newbie - They are Jeckyl/Hyde so far. I think they need to be scrutinsed Day2, to get some consistency between the two haeds. Right now the lack of consistency makes them essentially unreadable (i.e. a very confused read) sitting at very slightly leaning town.

(3) Promato - Im just scared of lurkers in general after the loss in Mafia LX. These guys have given reasons for the low activity so I expect HIGH QUALITY with small doses. Not getting that so far; they are my sleeper pick for scum. Yams recent list post was... *meh* bunch of wishy-washy reads. Which is fine and all - considering the lack of activity; but why bother to post it? Like i said, if you want to post less fine; but the quality needs to be there.

(4) Hardpec - I am in agreement with Omni here. And I dont care Oats that you disagree. If hes not a strong town read, dont step in. And certainly @ night, do not expect a case.

Hardpec + Promato are my current picks to follow through with on Day2

(4 1/2) VE - I am throwing him in purely because hes not as active as I have come to expect from recent town VE + Normally he uimms/ahhs a fuck ton before lynch - and we not getting that this game.


==============

This is probably going to be my last post for the cycle. Going out tonight, and deadline is 7am on a Saturday => i will miss it.

(moc)

On March 16 2013 02:01 FiveTouch wrote:
I'm quite sceptical that iamp is mafia. His case is stupid but it doesn't make him mafia.

~marv

On March 16 2013 02:18 DrParnassus wrote:
HI IAMP. I'm looking right at you but you won't make eye contact with me! Why so guilty?

On March 16 2013 02:22 FiveTouch wrote:
Playing for modkill is a really bad way to play the game.

On March 16 2013 02:23 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

because you have no idea what your talking about how does me making a case on marv make me mafia dear.

On March 16 2013 02:26 FiveTouch wrote:

Theoretically, because the case was made up from 100% bullshit. But, its you we're talking about, so that doesn't exactly apply.

~Keir

On March 16 2013 04:57 FiveTouch wrote:
I don't really agree with your conclusions. I'll post more later. I've checked the filters I need.

~marv

On March 16 2013 05:36 FiveTouch wrote:
Why the fuck is everyone so worried about me not posting much. This is not an 18 player game. It is a 9 player game. Marv speaks for our opinions, and if he's not around, I'll talk about what I feel is important.

~Keir

On March 16 2013 05:38 FiveTouch wrote:

I'm plenty vocal with my opinions...to my partner, and we discuss them, then he brings them to the thread when we've reached a consensus.

On March 16 2013 05:38 FiveTouch wrote:

I'm plenty vocal with my opinions...to my partner, and we discuss them, then he brings them to the thread when we've reached a consensus.

On March 16 2013 05:42 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Yeah but how the fuck am I supposed to know that? Part of me reading your hydra is reading you. You not posting makes it impossible to get information out of you, and makes it impossible to hold you accountible for anything.

On March 16 2013 05:54 FiveTouch wrote:

This point about the list-post is terrible. Really terrible. What about the contents of the list post? I agree with most of the reads and I agree with most of the reasoning behind the reads. In addition, he said he needed to look into you, and then subsequently did so, making a series of natural posts regarding how you were posting and your alignment.

~marv

On March 16 2013 06:03 FiveTouch wrote:
I still think he's town. Everything reads as pretty genuine to me. I understand the flow of the filter and the thoughts. I'm not totally certain about this, but I think so.

~marv

On March 16 2013 05:29 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

Promato - Leaning scum. Prome is busy and that's understandable, however the Yamato half has been nothing like I'd expect from town Yamato. Even barring his early-game inactivity, his contributions since have been less than impressive. There's a very wishy-washy list post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039&currentpage=23#445

On March 15 2013 15:00 Promato wrote:
Is that a loaded question?'

Obviously it looks bad, coupled with what I've said about Hapa.

On March 15 2013 15:04 DrParnassus wrote:


Iamp/Hapa hydra has a pretty big filter this game though, how can you say that Iamp isnt being in the spotlight?

On March 16 2013 06:03 FiveTouch wrote:
I still think he's town. Everything reads as pretty genuine to me. I understand the flow of the filter and the thoughts. I'm not totally certain about this, but I think so.

~marv

On March 14 2013 06:52 Promato wrote:
Golems are a little strange. While I like both soniv and WoS neither one strikes me as a power player. their decision to simply commentate with a few snide comments tossed in is actually a decent contribution for them. I don't have trouble following their thoughts although their posts do annoy the crap out of me.

The Dirk trolling remains the most suspicious thing in the thread on first read through(sadly enough). I don't like the other reasons marv has given for voting him but marv is telling the truth about Bugs scum meta (or has been setting up this ploy for months since I'm pretty sure he mentioned it during YAN)

Adarfs is probably my follow up if Dirk turns into a useful man beast. Both Adam and Snarfs are good and, well, I'm not seeing it. Intro post was lacking and follow up has been none-existent. Lurker lyncch, but one I'd be willing to say has decentish odds of flipping scum.

anyway, fuck Yamato. I'll try to be useful. Hopefully when he shows up eventually he'll play the game like he promised.

On March 14 2013 15:39 Moology wrote:

Hello OO. (Please respond specifically instead of VE)

What has liking the golem flavour got to do with them "coming from a townie place"?

Does it actually matter if you think they are "more townie" than Witty; either Golems are town, scum or null; where do you stand?

(moc)

On March 16 2013 08:04 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

reading op is useful.....

On March 16 2013 08:04 FiveTouch wrote:
My post looks pretty sketch because I'm preempting the NK but Golems looks significantly worse for wanting to lynch Dirk as well as have Witty modkilled.

~marv

Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything.



Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die.

On March 16 2013 09:40 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
##Unvote

I'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him.

@ Marv
There are two reasons why I'm concerned.
1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1.
2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest:


Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history.

Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything.



Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die.

On March 16 2013 10:42 FiveTouch wrote:
Its almost 3am in England. He went to bed.

On March 16 2013 11:05 FiveTouch wrote:

Just so you know, the post asking you about DeathNote was me. Notice I said (me and marv), because I really don't remember much about Death Note since I wasn't in it and didn't read the early days.

But no. We discussed our reads in length during the night and came to a consensus together. Promato was my town read, Moology was marv's, etc. We aren't separate players, we are FiveTouch. We're playing together as a team because that's honestly the best way to play a hydra.

On March 16 2013 11:07 FiveTouch wrote:
So, from what I do remember of Death Note, marv had to send in his kills during the day. So, what you're saying is, he sent in a kill on Palmar, but kept pushing Palmar and got him lynched, therefore wasting his kill?

I don't really see how that is that similar to this game at all.

On March 16 2013 11:37 FiveTouch wrote:

I...what? That makes no fucking sense. I've been posting every night after marv goes to bed. You were suspicious of me earlier for it, but now its a town tell?

On March 16 2013 14:53 DrParnassus wrote:
like, i'm pretty certain VE is scum. i'm certain enough that VE is scum that i'm kinda willing to lynch TLGolem by association of his null read on VE, just to make VE have to play the game out a little longer.

Hapa and Marv I have VERY strong town reads on. Marv's reaction to my self vote makes him town. Keir's insanity makes him town. Hapa looks very town from about D2 post onwards and I'm willing to chalk up the D1 to the general lazy atmosphere of the thread.

Promato is town by association of his earlier case on VE

That only leaves moology and TLCG, and after that last post from golems..... it's gotta be golem.

yes I'm terribad for everything i've just written, but idc

On March 16 2013 15:14 FiveTouch wrote:
Also, rofl @ Hapa repeating my points about the case against them

For now I will fix my(/our) play and contribute in fewer, more meaningful amounts, because it is all we can muster right now.

On March 16 2013 20:26 FiveTouch wrote:


I looked at the first 2 pages of your filter in LX and didn't find anything similar to the series of posts that I showed here. You were aggressive, somewhat trolly, and in your face. That's not what I'm seeing here at all.

If you can show me posts you think are similar, I'm all ears.

~marv

On March 17 2013 01:17 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

Who did you jail and any crumbs?

On March 17 2013 01:56 DrParnassus wrote:
golems, you need to get to sharing reads and being productive asap. we can hash out this JK stuff later

On March 17 2013 02:19 TLCastingGolems wrote:


You can calm your tits asap.

tl;dr calm your tits


Current reads:
DrParn
FiveTouch
Moology
Newbie
Promato
OE

Parn and FiveTouch feel townie because of activity and reactions to different things.

Moo and Newbie I'm leaving null because I'm still not convinced they aren't scum. Newbie less so than Moo, he's been quite active, and the pressure on us I feel is more town motivated than scum jumping on a scummy player.

I've noticed that OE has actively avoided making recent reads on us. He always disappears when the focus turns to us. I really want to know what he thinks of us, etc.

Prom I've got nothing on. The case on OE certainly works in his favor, but this wouldn't be the first time scum bussed their teammates, especially when the score is 5-2 one cycle in.

-S4

On March 17 2013 08:31 FiveTouch wrote:

You are missing the point entirely.

Yes, scum can be flexible *WHEN THEY HAVE TO BE*.

To play scum well, you have to be able to read thread atmosphere, and know how to 1) manipulate it, and 2) use it to know who you can push for a successful mislynch. Everything about the thread atmosphere at the time when Promato was talking about ObsQT was pointing towards ObsQT being a very possible lynch candidate. Scum don't shut down a potential mislynch option for themselves for no reason whatsoever. If thread atmosphere is turning, they will "change their minds" etc, but that was not the case at the time.

I think its very, very, very unlikely that Promato is scum.

On March 17 2013 08:46 FiveTouch wrote:

Haven't you figured out this isn't marv yet? Marv hasn't posted since like 8am this morning.

Anyways, I'm not particularly trying to defend yamato. I'm explaining my read because I feel it is damn good reasoning and if someone wants me to think about Promato maybe being scum, they need to have some equally good reasoning.

On March 17 2013 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:


Idunno. I mean he's scum for a lot of other reasons, but I can totally see a blue-role doing that.

On March 17 2013 01:08 TLCastingGolems wrote:


Well, I had thought I wrote "town" instead of "blue", as I wasn't planning on claiming blue yet. Half asleep brains seems to have had different plans.

You could lynch us and find out for sure, as it's only on my word right now, but that wouldn't be very useful for you, now would it?

On March 17 2013 10:52 FiveTouch wrote:

Is this Oats or thrawn?

On March 17 2013 11:39 FiveTouch wrote:
The point is, ObsQT just posted about how you played in LX, making cases on multiple Toms, Dicks, and Harrys. In this game, you haven't given a solid reason to be suspicious of ANYONE. What gives?

On March 17 2013 11:50 FiveTouch wrote:

I didn't answer you because it was a dumb question. I've made it abundantly clear what my stance on Moology is. Why are you not reading the thread? What is *YOUR* stance on Moology, since you haven't given an opinion on him?

On March 17 2013 14:38 Promato wrote:
Also, do you disagree with how I've laid out the game?

From the last few pages, it's gotten pretty obvious.

On March 17 2013 14:44 FiveTouch wrote:

I'm all for people giving me townreads, but not for terrible reasons. My play in Dueling had much more to do with just flat not having time. But, even more important, I have another scum game that is viewable in my history and has a much different playstyle.

On March 17 2013 15:02 FiveTouch wrote:

Right. My point was, did you compare my town play to my GSL 1 scum play, or just my Big Enough scum play? Because they are extremely different.

(To be perfectly fair, my GSL 1 scum play is still different than my *recent* town play, just because I've gotten more confident/arrogant/comfortable around TL. But, my current town play is quite different from my other town play around the time of GSL 1 too )

On March 18 2013 07:01 FiveTouch wrote:

I could get behind this.

On March 18 2013 10:09 FiveTouch wrote:
for example why are you saying Promato are battling it out to prove they are town when they put suspicion on OE before I did (even though I thought OE was mafia by then :p)

On March 18 2013 12:47 Promato wrote:


wat? I never thought the golems were lying. I've had them as town since day one.

On March 18 2013 13:03 FiveTouch wrote:

How the fuck is that a scum slip? Rofl.

On March 18 2013 13:20 Moology wrote:

2 words
1st starts with a V
2nd starts with a T

fuckn flood cotnrol
(moc)

On March 18 2013 13:15 Moology wrote:

Well the game is solved.

castingGolems *are* most likely town. I dont expect scum framer + scum RB'r

So they are either scum goon fake claiming (plausible due to VE lynch, but unlikely)

or actual blue role (most likely).


I know my role.. and i know my interactions with ppl like FT/Dr.P went someway to divining all our alignments as town..
so that leaves you as the lowest hanging fruit; in short: I cant play along because I can't envisage a different scenario.

(moc)

On March 18 2013 13:46 FiveTouch wrote:
Anyways, Promato is still the strongest of my town reads between Prom/Moology/Golems.

Everyone seems to not like my reasoning, but I went back and looked through a few of Yamato/Prom's scum games. I never saw anything similar to yamato's un-provoked read swap. And, on top of that, marv and I together (with something like 40+ games of experience between us) can remember a single instance of a scum reach change like that for absolutely no reason. Much less in the face of EXTRA reasoning. Combine that with pushing a damn good reason that VE was scum, and I just don't see it.

I'll talk with marv more about it tomorrow before the deadline, though.