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@ Wave
Hey bud! Have a couple of questions for you. I need to figure out what you were thinking last night when you posted your scum-read on me. Answer what you can:
1) What is your current read on me?
2) What were you thinking at the time you made that post?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=34#666
I'll be honest. It's really tough to justify that post from a town perspective. It basically shows that you were suspicious of me without knowing the reasons for it, and that's not normal for a townie.
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On March 17 2013 05:08 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Alright let's see:
Regarding the blue claim, I thought Soniv did that on purpose because I figured it was a good way out of you guys mislynching us later in the day but no, he actually fucked that up and meant to write town.
As to your questions to be specifically:
1) Null. We don't really feel you as a townie. The pressure seems legit but you don't 'feel' right in our eyes, so we don't have a problem in pressuring aspects of you we find odd. Now the thing about the case on you is, while it contained largely associative points, it is still technically very easy for scum to throw suspicion onto us/other Dirk voters really easily by doing what they did. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense that they killed him themselves rather than letting us mislynch. Doesn't make you scum, but doesn't make you town either.
The ball doesn't stop with association - you have to dig through my filter and attempt to make a read on me through my behavior. Also, it sounds like you didn't read my filter at all - I am literally the most active player here right now. You gave FT and DrP town-reads for this very activity, yet not me for some reason.
Secondly, this "null, gut feel = scum" thing is VERY very different from what your buddy posted only a couple of hours ago:
Newbie less so than Moo, he's been quite active, and the pressure on us I feel is more town motivated than scum jumping on a scummy player.
S4 very clearly gave me town-cred for my pressure. You claim you collaborated with him and reached the opposite conclusion. Why the difference?
2) What was I thinking? Not a hell of a lot. Posting without fully reading, and getting frustrated by our own lack of contribution combined with being generally very lost.
Like you were thinking... nothing... at all... when you posted you were suspicious of me? This is what I don't understand about your play - you clearly had your previous case against me in mind when you asked me to respond to it. Also, why would you post that you're suspicious of someone if you have literally no idea why you were suspicious of them?
You say this: Show nested quote +
It basically shows that you were suspicious of me without knowing the reasons for it, and that's not normal for a townie.
...you're telling me gut reads aren't normal?
Gut reads are normal. HOWEVER, it still conflicts with the read that s4 posted.
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On March 17 2013 05:23 TLCastingGolems wrote:Show nested quote +1) Null. We don't really feel you as a townie. The pressure seems legit but you don't 'feel' right in our eyes, so we don't have a problem in pressuring aspects of you we find odd. We're in agreement here completely. The pressure seems normal but there's something about you we just don't like. Sorry, bro. As for my thinking, what exactly do you want? I could try to fabricate some bullshit reason as to what I was doing but honestly I just wanted to get something out there to try and contribute in a hurry and it backfired big time.
Ok, what about me do you not like? Give me a tangible reason. One of my posts, my attitude somewhere... anything.
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To add to that, I don't mind it when someone gives a "gut-feeling" read normally, but it seems like you're giving them to dodge making any actual analysis. You've done so little post/behavior analysis on anyone this game. Hell it doesn't even seem like you've read my filter at all.
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Sigh do I not get an answer to my questions?
On March 17 2013 05:28 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 05:23 TLCastingGolems wrote:1) Null. We don't really feel you as a townie. The pressure seems legit but you don't 'feel' right in our eyes, so we don't have a problem in pressuring aspects of you we find odd. We're in agreement here completely. The pressure seems normal but there's something about you we just don't like. Sorry, bro. As for my thinking, what exactly do you want? I could try to fabricate some bullshit reason as to what I was doing but honestly I just wanted to get something out there to try and contribute in a hurry and it backfired big time. Ok, what about me do you not like? Give me a tangible reason. One of my posts, my attitude somewhere... anything.
On March 17 2013 05:30 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
To add to that, I don't mind it when someone gives a "gut-feeling" read normally, but it seems like you're giving them to dodge making any actual analysis. You've done so little post/behavior analysis on anyone this game. Hell it doesn't even seem like you've read my filter at all.
Also I wasn't very impressed with your case on Promato at all. For one, you never addressed the fact that he was the first to bring up suspicions on OE. This is not disputable. Since much of your suspicion seems associative, how does a Prome/OE scumteam make any sense?
Secondly:
We didn't call him mafia? Lol.
You didn't call OE mafia. In your initial post, you gave a flat null-read on him and didn't look into him at all.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=34#666
VE's screamfest reminds me of his play in LX (since that's the only game in which I've played with him), but I've also heard that him getting all emotional is typical of his play no matter what alignment? Probably null but I'm still definitely going to comb through before coming to any decisions.
Even in that recent list post, you just paint his name red and imply suspicion. You don't call him scum, and you don't do anything commital. You just say you'd like to hear from him more:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=39#777
I've noticed that OE has actively avoided making recent reads on us. He always disappears when the focus turns to us. I really want to know what he thinks of us, etc.
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Also I need to hear more from Moology. He's not participating much in this discussion at all.
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@ Omni
Despite my vote being on Caster, I'm not yet at the stage that I want to lynch him over VE/OO. However I'm getting pretty close. All I want to see is some analysis from them, and I haven't gotten anything from them. They have made 3 "cases" so far:
1) A "case" on FiveTouch that draws NO conclusions about their allignment and simply criticizes their play:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=11#205
2) A "case" on myself that was entirely based on association with Dirk. Not to mention that he pressured me based on this case after Dirk flipped green...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=23#442
3) A "case" on Promato:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=39#767
The thing with the case on Promato is that it just... looks a lot like a scum-case. He reads through his filter post-by-post and flings shit on anything he can find. His attitude seems more critical of Promato's play than anything else. Finally...
So....WIFOM? Newbie rips into us like crazy and justly tears me apart for my shit, and that's the best you can do? Come on.
Town motivation seen here from Prom: 0.
He explicitly states that he sees zero town motivation from Prom. Those are pretty strong words, so why isn't he voting Prom?
That whole exchange with him giving reads then making the case on Prom is very very strange. He first posts this list post in which he finds Prom null:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=38#754
Current reads:
DrParn
FiveTouch
Moology
Newbie
Promato
OE
...then all of a sudden when FiveTouch asks him to elaborate on Prome, he dives through Prome's filter and magically figures out that there's "zero town motivation" behind his actions.
Fuck I might have just convinced myself to stick with my vote.
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On March 17 2013 07:31 Moology wrote:
EBWOP: Actually, he's done this twice now where his reads are not current but he doesn't seem to care. Once as you mentioned as he continued to pressure you after Dirk flipped town, and again now on Prom.
Well that's not quite what I was getting at.
The thing with Prome is that Caster initially had a null read on Prome after a night's deliberation between them. Then the second FiveTouch pressures them to read Prome's filter, he all of a sudden arrives at a very strong scumread. This is scummy because...
a) It reads like Caster isn't reading filters of his own initiative
b) A Prome/Oblivious scumteam makes very little sense given suspicions, and the case completely ignores that.
c) The case finds "zero town motivation" for Prome's actions, yet Caster doesn't vote him...?
Basically he suddenly updated his scumread at a very strange time, and the case he provides is pretty flawed.
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Anywho Moology, where do you stand on Caster right now? Do you still unequivocally support an ObliviousEyes lynch first?
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I also would like your thoughts on all the players really. Prome, FiveTouch, DrParnassuss...etc.
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Just to clarify, this is all Omni right?
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One question about your stance on me:
Initially you had me as town due to the NK:
On March 16 2013 08:54 Moology wrote:
What the fuck...
##Vote: ObliviousEyes
With Dirk's death that really puts me off on calling Newbie scum. He should know that once Dirk is gone he's next in a lot of peoples minds. It doesn't make sense. OE looks like a good candidate and I'm starting to really want to hear from Golems again.
I thought even Mocsta touched on VE's town meta in his case. Personally I (omni) have never played with VE but I worked it out another way for scum VE to still make sense to me without meta, and that was determining that a mafia Newbie would never have made the NK on Dirk and therefore my previous suspicions had been wrong. Obviously wrong about Dirk, and through a town Dirk, probably wrong about Newbie. Rather than knowing how VE plays I tried to use process of elimination and found that I could not eliminate the possibility of a scum ObliviousEyes.
Then you kinda forgot about the vote for a little while, calling me "null (leaning town)" in two posts:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=36#714
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=40#793
Then in your most recent post, you're back to calling me effectively town:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=41#804
You as well seem town in my book because of the way the Dirk lynch was set up. I can't see you as being scum and basically lining yourself up to be lynched today to get rid of DIRK. If Prom hadn't got on VE's case and called him out / forced him to handle the pressure so poorly I think you would have the majority of votes right now competing with Golems instead of VE. For that reason you are also null - leaning town until the flip of VE.
What's the reasoning for the read downgrade in the middle?
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(3) Newbies - You guys are becoming better town read.... BUT.. i get the feeling it is only hapa posting ??!?!?!??!
Yep. Iamp is being lazy... he says I'm doing well enough for the both of us >>
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On March 17 2013 08:25 Moology wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 08:20 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:(3) Newbies - You guys are becoming better town read.... BUT.. i get the feeling it is only hapa posting ??!?!?!??! Yep. Iamp is being lazy... he says I'm doing well enough for the both of us >> Thats a problem for me. The issue I had with your play was You were coming across townie to me & iamp.. well. . lets just say he wasnt. If now all you are doing is posting... well... i have concerns.
Thing is.. from what I am aware, you spew bullshit when scum; and im not seeing that. so i would still go with town; i just think its important that iamp posts as well.
Yeah that's understandable. I'll poke iamp in the QT a bit. Honestly though, I've kinda liked the freedom to post myself for now. I've gotten on a bit of a roll, and dealing with flood control when you have two spammy townies on the same hydra is annoying as fuck.
Franky. i dont get two shits about judging the "hydra".. because..
Guys like me/Omni are here at different timezones (7.20am sunday here); I have to trust his reads are on the same page as me... Your completely avoiding this accountability.
Huh? Not sure what you're getting at with the "accountability" thing.
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Eh no sense in defending him marv. Yamato is a big boy and can defend himself. I think he's town too, but he's posting far less than I'd like him to.
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On March 17 2013 08:46 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 08:38 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
Eh no sense in defending him marv. Yamato is a big boy and can defend himself. I think he's town too, but he's posting far less than I'd like him to. Haven't you figured out this isn't marv yet? Marv hasn't posted since like 8am this morning. Anyways, I'm not particularly trying to defend yamato. I'm explaining my read because I feel it is damn good reasoning and if someone wants me to think about Promato maybe being scum, they need to have some equally good reasoning.
Wait what? You do a good preachy marv impression =/
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On March 17 2013 10:21 Hapahauli wrote:
I'm pretty confident that both will flip scum. While I hate to lynch based on information, in this situation it seems alright. Flipping ObviousEyes first is going to tell us a ton about Promato's alignment, which is good enough for me.
Whoops.
Also, I'm keeping my vote on Caster for now because I want to be a rebel.
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You found 0 town motivation in Promato's posting. How on earth would you be more confident in finding scum in OE?
Like seriously, this is all the analysis you've posted on OE:
1) A null read.
VE's screamfest reminds me of his play in LX (since that's the only game in which I've played with him), but I've also heard that him getting all emotional is typical of his play no matter what alignment? Probably null but I'm still definitely going to comb through before coming to any decisions.
2) "He's avoided making recent reads on us"
I've noticed that OE has actively avoided making recent reads on us. He always disappears when the focus turns to us. I really want to know what he thinks of us, etc.
3) Soft-Defending VE...
On March 17 2013 05:15 TLCastingGolems wrote:
I don't know why scum VE would avoid talking about us, the same as we have no idea why they shot Dirk last night. Scummy motivations bring about a lot of WIFOM.
VE has a lot to answer to/for anyway right now, best he answers himself.
And then you vote him without any analysis whatsoever:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=42#838
So I have no clue where your read on OE is coming from. You have never attempted to analyze his filter, and your only suspicion on him seems to be that he's not giving reads on you. That's incredibly weak.
Compare this to your case on Yamato, where you rail on him and accuse him of having 0 townie motivation.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402039¤tpage=39#767
So....WIFOM? Newbie rips into us like crazy and justly tears me apart for my shit, and that's the best you can do? Come on.
Town motivation seen here from Prom: 0.
Big, big difference there. And the only explanation I can think of is that you're scum.
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EPT
