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On March 16 2013 06:06 Promato wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 06:03 FiveTouch wrote:
I still think he's town. Everything reads as pretty genuine to me. I understand the flow of the filter and the thoughts. I'm not totally certain about this, but I think so.
~marv Read the post I quoted. It's the only time he even MENTIONS Witty while town is fawning over lynching him. Not only was he otherwise ignorant of town's escapades, but he didn't even bother giving a read on the guy other than saying he's "willing to lynch him". Come on, Marv, this is scum VE and you know I know.
Oh and misunderstanding - I was talking about you in that nested quote, not OE.
~marv
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I know this game has been somewhat slow and we lynched a townie Day 1, but for a 30 page game it's been surprisingly productive.
~marv
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Different games Hapa, and he only truly got a hard-on for lynching you Day 3.
~marv
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I have some interesting things to say about that VE post a little later. Stay tuned!
~marv
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Don't worry guys, I will dispel all illusions shortly.
~marv
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Anyway, this is the game as kei and I see it. I actually have a whole bunch of townreads.
Dr. Parnassus - he has been the guy, and specifically thrawn, with the highest thread presence, constantly pushing things, arguing, discussing. thrawn is a wallflower as mafia. I've no reason whatsoever to think the Dr. is mafia.
Moology - Kei and I had some disagreements about this originally, but I'm fairly convinced Moology is town. Mocsta was arguing with the Dr. earlier in the thread, but took the opportunity to abandon the argument. Mocsta, as mafia, LOVES these arguments. He'll literally go at it for pages and pages, but here he didn't. In addition to this, his posts feel sincere, I can follow his thought process, his suspicions, and he seems to be genuinely trying to figure things out.
Promato - again, and I checked twice because of Hapa, Promato's posts feel genuine. There's plenty of off the cuff natural stuff in their filter. His list post is actually good because I agreed with the reads and reasoning, and in addition the way he went about his XXXI_ObsQT read looked good, as Keirathi highlighted earlier. He could easily have continued finding him suspicious, was almost encouraged to do so in fact, but backed down from it.
NewbieXXXI_obsQT - I've simply not seen much to make me think they're mafia. Unlike thrawn, I have seen the lightheartedness I expect from iamp's posts, for example his replies to me when he was trying to 'trap' me when I said I never scumslip. On Hapa's part, Hapa is a player that when he's mafia, all his posts just feel horrible. See Duel Mafia where in N0 I said on more than one occasion things like "I don't like any of Hapa's posts" or "nothing Hapa has done makes me think he's town". Here, I don't get that feeling at all, there seems to be a genuine thought process and I'm liking what I see (despite the slightly limited activity compared to normal).
TheCastingGolems - this is the townread I'm least sure about, although I still think they're town. Actually I find their arguments about wanting to take advantage of the modkill somewhat of a towntell. If, by some miracle, Dirk flips town, then I would reconsider this read. I can't see any particular reason they're mafia right now though.
Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything.
On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow.
Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die.
ObliviousEyes - I also think it's pretty likely this guy is mafia. He apparently pushed Dirk, and by his posts it looks like that, but in the middle of all his pushing is this:
On March 15 2013 04:18 ObliviousEyes wrote:
I am willing to consolidate upon the lurker WittyHydraName. I think Palmugs more likely to flip scum.
The fact he's willing to consolidate over means everyone reading his posts thinks "well, they think Witty is probably mafia too if they're willing to consolidate here, no reason to switch".
VE also says that Witty is just a "lurker lynch", and yet fails to mention at all the usual town metas of Adam and Snarfs. This was a point that everyone else brought up. It *wasn't* just a lurker lynch, it's the fact that Adam and Snarfs both lurk as mafia and not usually as town, and this wasn't addressed.
The interesting thing looking at ObliviousEyes, actually, is that there's a very experienced player combined with a newbie. So we can really catch these guys out looking at Oblivious' posts; VE will be harder to catch. This post *alone* is worth a lynch:
On March 14 2013 14:54 ObliviousEyes wrote:
Regarding WittyHydraName: Adam's return/entrance to the thread with his declared lack of motivation is concerning to me. It's been a while without any content from that pair, too. Snarfs asked a couple questions and peaced out, seemed mostly concerned with ObsQT's vote.
Iamperfection is on that team, so I don't expect it to be clear of ObsQT's alignment immediately but Witty(snarfs) took the early vote a bit seriously. I'll keep an eye on Witty, not too concerned with ObsQT right now.
Dirk Hardpec is interesting. Chatty but not terribly informative, at least the filter/game isn't terribly long so the lack of quoting/context on the posts isn't annoying yet. VE knows them better, I'm interested in seeing the fleshed out version of his read.
-OO
This really is the scummiest post in the entire thread (unlike Promato's list. take note of the difference folks). There's just a bunch of summaries of what's happening in the thread. Let's look for hard opinions, shall we? What do we have?
- Witty is concerning
- unclear on iamperfection
- keep an eye on witty
- Dirk is interesting
- interested to see more
Not even a shred of an opinion on anything alignment indicative. It's classic newbie mafia. The only shocking thing is that VE didn't stop him making this atrocity of a post (don't let them wifom that he would have stopped him by the way). Here's the followup:
On March 14 2013 15:21 ObliviousEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 06:52 Promato wrote:
Golems are a little strange. While I like both soniv and WoS neither one strikes me as a power player. their decision to simply commentate with a few snide comments tossed in is actually a decent contribution for them. I don't have trouble following their thoughts although their posts do annoy the crap out of me.
The Dirk trolling remains the most suspicious thing in the thread on first read through(sadly enough). I don't like the other reasons marv has given for voting him but marv is telling the truth about Bugs scum meta (or has been setting up this ploy for months since I'm pretty sure he mentioned it during YAN)
Adarfs is probably my follow up if Dirk turns into a useful man beast. Both Adam and Snarfs are good and, well, I'm not seeing it. Intro post was lacking and follow up has been none-existent. Lurker lyncch, but one I'd be willing to say has decentish odds of flipping scum.
anyway, fuck Yamato. I'll try to be useful. Hopefully when he shows up eventually he'll play the game like he promised.
Golems I would call scum-ish but coming from a town place. I like the role-play (it's interesting and fun to read and that makes this more fun for me!). I don't like the excusing themselves but then again, that's extending a courtesy so I'm seeing them more townie than Witty right now. Snarfs is my own main concern right now given how little he's been around and his partner certainly isn't helping. He jumped way too fast on the ObsQT vote shenanigans and then never really followed it up.
Again to recap:
- Golems scummish but townieish
- Snarfs is concerning
Another followup:
On March 14 2013 16:11 ObliviousEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On March 14 2013 15:39 Moology wrote:On March 14 2013 15:21 ObliviousEyes wrote:On March 14 2013 06:52 Promato wrote:
Golems are a little strange. While I like both soniv and WoS neither one strikes me as a power player. their decision to simply commentate with a few snide comments tossed in is actually a decent contribution for them. I don't have trouble following their thoughts although their posts do annoy the crap out of me.
The Dirk trolling remains the most suspicious thing in the thread on first read through(sadly enough). I don't like the other reasons marv has given for voting him but marv is telling the truth about Bugs scum meta (or has been setting up this ploy for months since I'm pretty sure he mentioned it during YAN)
Adarfs is probably my follow up if Dirk turns into a useful man beast. Both Adam and Snarfs are good and, well, I'm not seeing it. Intro post was lacking and follow up has been none-existent. Lurker lyncch, but one I'd be willing to say has decentish odds of flipping scum.
anyway, fuck Yamato. I'll try to be useful. Hopefully when he shows up eventually he'll play the game like he promised.
Golems I would call scum-ish but coming from a town place. I like the role-play (it's interesting and fun to read and that makes this more fun for me!). I don't like the excusing themselves but then again, that's extending a courtesy so I'm seeing them more townie than Witty right now. Snarfs is my own main concern right now given how little he's been around and his partner certainly isn't helping. He jumped way too fast on the ObsQT vote shenanigans and then never really followed it up. Hello OO. (Please respond specifically instead of VE) What has liking the golem flavour got to do with them "coming from a townie place"? Does it actually matter if you think they are "more townie" than Witty; either Golems are town, scum or null; where do you stand? (moc) I don't think they're being harmful in the way they are choosing to voice themselves, though their opinions aren't exactly forthcoming they are more present and therefore more open and town-looking than Witty. It's a matter of degrees; if it were between the two right this moment I would lynch Witty over Golems. I'm not saying they're super town looking but I can see how it could be just them being town and having some fun. They haven't been under really strong pressure yet, and if they are I would hope they drop the flavor to focus on being effective instead of entertaining. Some up-to-date concrete opinions would mean a lot right now from them, though. -OO
- I have made a bulletpoint but I have literally nothing to say as the post says absolutely nothing whatsoever.
ObliviousEyes looks very mafia indeed when we look at ObviousOne's contributions. They are all summaries, there's a complete refusal to take stances on anyone. He is the weakling of this team, and he's proving himself as such. Classic mafia play from OO in all regards.
Anyway, there's one most post I want to discuss, this time from VE. It's very interesting. I've cropped out the reads, because actually they are the least interesting part of the whole post.
On March 16 2013 06:42 ObliviousEyes wrote:
The Last Will And Testament of ObliviousEyes
There are a couple of points that I want to raise before starting. First, after a long discussion with my other head, I've come to the conclusion that this game is much deeper than I'd originally anticipated. I quickly realized that while our ultimate reads of a couple of players were the same, we disagreed on a few key players for various reasons…but chiefly among them was the fact that we have differing reads between heads of hydras, and we disagreed on the implications of this. I subscribe to the school of thought that we should be reading the slot and not trying to read the individual players at this point, mainly because early on I was having conflicting reads between heads (Oats/thrawn, iamp/Hapa). OO however has been trying to read the players rather than the intentions of the slot which is an interesting approach, but ultimately useless in my opinion because there are some players (Hapa, marv, Bugs) who are going to be able to look townie regardless of their actual alignment.
We decided that we are going to continue to take different approaches to scum hunting moving forward. I feel like in this way we have a better chance of missing something the other misses. But as a result, the reads I'm about to give are my reads, not OO's. We agree on a few, but these are ultimately my thoughts. I'm not aware of whether he intends to give his final thoughts, I didn't think to ask because I had intended to myself.
First of all, note how long this segment is. Two hefty paragraphs to tell us how him and Obvious are *different* people with different reads. And look at how long the explanation is! All the nitty gritty, exactly why they're different, and a further explanation of how they're going to continue being different. VE will no doubt argue that he's just being transparent, but actually it betrays a different mindset - he's overcompensating to show that they're *really* town and they're *both* scumhunting and because they're both town they'll have different reads. The following reads are *so* VE's reads that he's kindly presenting to us guys. But wait? Shouldn't they be, I don't know, discussing their reads, seeing how they're different, trying to work things out and present their reads as *one slot* to the thread? (as VE points out, he sees things as one slot. And yet here he is making HIS slot into two different people. Funny isn't it?) As Obvious shadowed VE in Nomination, and as I gather they had a great time there, there seems to be a remarkable breakdown of communication. I find this to be unlikely, far more likely is that they're artificially trying to show they're town by stressing how they're both different and scumhunting. I don't buy any of it.
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lol wow. So one of my reads is wrong?
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My post looks pretty sketch because I'm preempting the NK  but Golems looks significantly worse for wanting to lynch Dirk as well as have Witty modkilled.
~marv
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Anyway, you should all read what I wrote about OE. Special emphasis on OO's posts.
~marv
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On March 16 2013 08:09 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 08:04 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:On March 16 2013 08:03 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
Oh wait that's a kill? I thought it was some mod-confirmed townie action. reading op is useful..... Who reads the OP gawd. And fuck you iamp - I can't post with this goddamn flood control. Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 08:04 FiveTouch wrote:My post looks pretty sketch because I'm preempting the NK but Golems looks significantly worse for wanting to lynch Dirk as well as have Witty modkilled. ~marv Do you have any ideas about that NK? I mean I can't make sense of it at all unless a) someone thought he was blue b) you did it to protect your hide ~hapa
mafia are afraid they're going to start playing and they have absolutely zero chance of being protected by any potential medic.
~marv
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Well, policy lynch me tomorrow if I'm wrong I guess ;p
With Dirk flipping town, it just makes it more likely that OE is scum, because for him not to be scum, two people I'm leaning town on have to be mafia, which I don't buy (and I refuse to be that bad :/).
~marv
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On March 16 2013 09:25 DrParnassus wrote:
##Vote: DrParnassus
there is no need to state the obvious so if you do, i'll probably just troll in response. this is my real vote for d2 and I don't intend on changing it unless I think scum isn't going to get lynched.
What the actual fuck?
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On March 16 2013 09:34 DrParnassus wrote:
everyone's both town and scum alike is probably gonna sheep you marv so don't worry about it. i don't want to vote this cycle, but i'm required to do so. this is the closest I can come to throwing away my vote within the rules of the game
btw, marv pls don't post again lest you reach the unholy number and doom us all
Why in the hell would you not want to vote? Literally this line of thinking makes 0 fucking sense.
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On March 16 2013 09:40 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:##UnvoteI'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him. @ MarvThere are two reasons why I'm concerned. 1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1. 2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest: Show nested quote +Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything. On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow. Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die. Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history.
Since when did I ask this to be a sheep marv day? What the fuck is wrong with all you people? Either you agree with my case or you don't. If you have an alternative explanation for OO's posts, I'm all ears.
GO AND READ THEM YOURSELF. I think OE is the best lynch, if the rest of you don't, do something the fuck about it rather than fucking whining like little bitches that it's just sheep marv day. Jesus christ.
To repeat to you, Hapa, I accused Palmar of being mafia for wasting his Day 1, and bugs as town doesn't usually waste Day 1s. Can you find me a single example in living memory where bugs did nothing as town on Day 1? I sure as hell can't.
~marv
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On March 16 2013 09:34 DrParnassus wrote:
everyone's both town and scum alike is probably gonna sheep you marv so don't worry about it. i don't want to vote this cycle, but i'm required to do so. this is the closest I can come to throwing away my vote within the rules of the game
btw, marv pls don't post again lest you reach the unholy number and doom us all
this is just pathetic. absolutely pathetic. it incenses me.
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On March 16 2013 10:05 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 09:40 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:##UnvoteI'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him. @ MarvThere are two reasons why I'm concerned. 1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1. 2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest: Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything. On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow. Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die. Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history. Since when did I ask this to be a sheep marv day? What the fuck is wrong with all you people? Either you agree with my case or you don't. If you have an alternative explanation for OO's posts, I'm all ears. GO AND READ THEM YOURSELF. I think OE is the best lynch, if the rest of you don't, do something the fuck about it rather than fucking whining like little bitches that it's just sheep marv day. Jesus christ. To repeat to you, Hapa, I accused Palmar of being mafia for wasting his Day 1, and bugs as town doesn't usually waste Day 1s. Can you find me a single example in living memory where bugs did nothing as town on Day 1? I sure as hell can't. ~marv
EBWOP: *in LVIII, with regards to Palmar. I don't even care about this, it's so irrelevant.
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On March 16 2013 09:40 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:##UnvoteI'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him. @ MarvThere are two reasons why I'm concerned. 1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1. 2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest: Show nested quote +Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything. On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow. Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die. Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history.
1) What about this is similar to DeathNote? I'm not following. Are you saying that Dirk couldn't have been lynched yesterday? I very strongly disagree with that, and if we (meaning me and marv) were more confident that Dirk was scum than Witty, we almost certainly could have gotten him lynched instead.
2) You're missing the point here. Maybe Palmar has trolled away a day 1 in the past (Death Note is the only example I know of...his other Trolly-Day-1 games, he still gives actual insight [read: LVIII...uh, seems like another too]). That doesn't change the fact that Palmar openly acknowledges that Day 1 is his best day as town, and then 100% wasted it by doing absolutely nothing. I would lynch a Palmar that refuses to play on his strongest day in any game, because town Palmar is far far more likely to put in at least a modicum of effort early on.
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Seriously, I made that post because *I* put in the effort for the rest of town, then town has a hissy fit that I want people to sheep me? What's wrong with people? I'm out until tomorrow.
~marv
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Its almost 3am in England. He went to bed.
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EPT
