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##Unvote
I'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him.
@ Marv There are two reasons why I'm concerned. 1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1. 2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest:
Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything. Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote: Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow. Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die.
Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history.
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On March 16 2013 10:08 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 09:40 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:##UnvoteI'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him. @ MarvThere are two reasons why I'm concerned. 1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1. 2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest: Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything. On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote: Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow. Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die. Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history. 1) What about this is similar to DeathNote? I'm not following. Are you saying that Dirk couldn't have been lynched yesterday? I very strongly disagree with that, and if we (meaning me and marv) were more confident that Dirk was scum than Witty, we almost certainly could have gotten him lynched instead. 2) You're missing the point here. Maybe Palmar has trolled away a day 1 in the past (Death Note is the only example I know of...his other Trolly-Day-1 games, he still gives actual insight [read: LVIII...uh, seems like another too]). That doesn't change the fact that Palmar openly acknowledges that Day 1 is his best day as town, and then 100% wasted it by doing absolutely nothing. I would lynch a Palmar that refuses to play on his strongest day in any game, because town Palmar is far far more likely to put in at least a modicum of effort early on.
1) Dirk could definitely have been lynched, but that's not my point. The point is that this situation is very similar to that of DeathNote Mini. Palmar was trolling in that game, a bunch of people wanted him dead, and yet you were planning to kill him. The only thing I'm saying is that there's history suggesting that you'd make a similar move here.
2) Can you link me a game in which Palmar trolls as scum? In all the games I've seen scum-Palmar play, he atleast puts a mediocum of effort to looking townie. Not a lot, but he kinda tries. I haven't been in a game with him in which he outwardly trolls as scum with no effort to look townie.
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On March 16 2013 10:05 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 09:40 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:##UnvoteI'm too damn paranoid. The simplest explanation for the NK is that marv ordered the kill. I don't know how likely that is, but I need to pursue it to see if it has merit. It was a fucking weird-ass NK for anyone here to make, and today shouldn't be a "sheep marv blindly" day without additional reasons to trust him. @ MarvThere are two reasons why I'm concerned. 1) You did something very similar in DeathNote Mini, where you wanted to kill Palmar on Day 1, but couldn't because of wonky-kill mechanics and the town mislynching Palmar Day 1. 2) Palmar does have a history of trolling Day 1. DeathNote Mini comes to mind, where he just made like 2 posts the entirety of the day. As such, this explanation in your "martyr" post comes across as dishonest: Dirk Hardpec - so yes, this guy is mafia. It's clear enough, it's been mentioned why - the trolling, the "I knew he'd flip town but did nothing about doing something else", the lack of anything. On March 16 2013 03:47 Dirk Hardpec wrote: Please hold some of your questions. I'll convince yall I'm town tomorrow. Do *not* be fooled by this. This is typical vettish scumplay from Palmar (probably bugs too). I'll contribute later... just you wait... I'll prove I'm town... and then there'll be a post that these players are very capable of making look good or convincing. What you need to remember is that they have not contributed in the slightest so far. That's actually the important issue. Don't forget, also, that Palmar is well known for having Day 1 as his absolute best day. Like, by far. He catches mafia regularly Day 1, and tails off after. There's a post he made about this in the obsQT for Hero Mini Mafia if you're really interested in checking what I've said. The salient point being that theoretical town-Palmar has wasted his absolute best day of catching mafia, on the offhand promise that he'll do better tomorrow, and willingly lynching into town. He must die. Palmar does waste Day 1's as town. Not often, but he does. This is a pretty clear misrepresentation of his play, and you definetely know his history. Since when did I ask this to be a sheep marv day? What the fuck is wrong with all you people? Either you agree with my case or you don't. If you have an alternative explanation for OO's posts, I'm all ears.
I know you didn't suggest that. HOWEVER, I feel that the town is moving in that direction right now, and that's not good. Perhaps at the end of this conversation, I'll re-affirm my town read on you. That would be splendid. But to not explore the option right now and blindly sheep you is a mistake.
GO AND READ THEM YOURSELF. I think OE is the best lynch, if the rest of you don't, do something the fuck about it rather than fucking whining like little bitches that it's just sheep marv day. Jesus christ.
To repeat to you, Hapa, I accused Palmar of being mafia for wasting his Day 1, and bugs as town doesn't usually waste Day 1s. Can you find me a single example in living memory where bugs did nothing as town on Day 1? I sure as hell can't.
~marv
Counterpoint: can you find a scum-game in which WBG does nothing all of Day 1?
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On March 16 2013 10:10 FiveTouch wrote: Seriously, I made that post because *I* put in the effort for the rest of town, then town has a hissy fit that I want people to sheep me? What's wrong with people? I'm out until tomorrow.
~marv
Who is throwing a "hissy-fit"?
"Town" isn't throwing one. I'm the only one doing this right now.
I'm supporting a calm-collected look at you because of a really strange NK. I think that's completely justified given the situation. Instead you threw your own hissy-fit about the "town" going against you (what?) and left the thread. The fuck?
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On March 16 2013 10:41 DrParnassus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 10:24 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:On March 16 2013 10:10 FiveTouch wrote: Seriously, I made that post because *I* put in the effort for the rest of town, then town has a hissy fit that I want people to sheep me? What's wrong with people? I'm out until tomorrow.
~marv Who is throwing a "hissy-fit"? "Town" isn't throwing one. I'm the only one doing this right now. I'm supporting a calm-collected look at you because of a really strange NK. I think that's completely justified given the situation. Instead you threw your own hissy-fit about the "town" going against you (what?) and left the thread. The fuck? i'm fairly sure that marv is referring to my vote, and my justification for said vote. the good news however, is that now i'm pretty confident about both of you being town after all this. i was very confident about marv being town before, but now i'm almost certain. what happened to you completely agreeing with the case on VE? you're just throwing all that away because of some trivialities concerning palmars history of useful town play or lack thereof? also you say that the night kill is strange WHO IS THE MORE STRANGE SCUM PLAYER, MARV OR VE? i don't see how you're like "I think ve is scum, oh gosh that's a weird nightkill, must be marv instead of VE"
Because it's a really fucking weird night kill, and I saw scum-Marv do something incredibly similar in a game I played with him in the past.
imo the choice of nightkills can be figured out... not by stuff like guessing about whether scum is trying to wifom you or not, but just by thinking about which player in the game (if they are scum) is most likely to night kill X player. You recently killed off marv, iamp, then myself in that order probably because we were the people in the game most likely to catch you if you were scum. So in a game where those 3 players get night killed, if hapa is in the game then there's a very good chance that hapa is scum. IMO VE being on the scumteam is the simplest explanation for this game's night kill.
I do agree that VE and Marv seem like the only players that would go after Palmar so aggressively with a night kill.
I will say that on behavior, I think VE/Oats is scummier. HOWEVER, marv is capable of building good cases against townies, and I want to make sure that I'm sheeping town marv and not a mislynch case.
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On March 16 2013 10:42 FiveTouch wrote: Its almost 3am in England. He went to bed.
BOOOOOOOOOOO
What's your take on all of this Kei? Do you 100% agree with Marv on everything, or is there something (hell anything) that you disagree with?
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On March 16 2013 11:11 Hapahauli wrote: ok ok yeah FT is town.
Back to sheepy-land
##Vote ObliviousEyes
On March 16 2013 11:20 Hapahauli wrote:Marv throwing his hissy-fit was a good sign that he was town. You stepping up to the block when you didn't need to is a sign that you're town. I was planning on stringing this out a bit to see how Caster/ObliviousEyes reacted, but it doesn't seem worth it, tl;dr + Show Spoiler +
Whooops.
Anyway I speak for myself. Not sure what iamp's view on marv is
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On March 16 2013 11:37 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 11:20 Hapahauli wrote: You stepping up to the block when you didn't need to is a sign that you're town.
I...what? That makes no fucking sense. I've been posting every night after marv goes to bed. You were suspicious of me earlier for it, but now its a town tell? [/spoiler]
Sure why not? Marv went to bed, and you are apparently taking the whole "we are one person thing" seriously. You didn't have to talk to me. You could have just not addressed me at all, and instead you jumped into the fray. I consider that townie, combined with your general "defiant" demeanor.
As for my suspicious of you earlier, that was based on you not contributing reads and not understanding how you were playing that hydra.
Anywho, you need not understand me - only agreement is required.
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On March 16 2013 11:40 DrParnassus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 08:54 Moology wrote: What the fuck...
##Vote: ObliviousEyes
With Dirk's death that really puts me off on calling Newbie scum. He should know that once Dirk is gone he's next in a lot of peoples minds. It doesn't make sense. OE looks like a good candidate and I'm starting to really want to hear from Golems again. firstly, who wrote this post? secondly, how's life aboard the magic school bus? OH MY GOD MOO. You were scum all along weren't you>>> Please get in touch with me asap.... and it needs to be mocsta, not OE. (btw we're still lynching VE, I just want to see where this goes)
Huh? That post seems aaaaight.
Also, he correctly deduced why I'm obv-town before anyone else in the thread. Of all the people that could have made the NK last night, it makes the least sense from us.
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On March 16 2013 11:56 DrParnassus wrote: ah, well then no worries for now. nvm.
@hapa
basically if mocsta was the one who voted VE like that, it would have been a very suspicious post... if you take moc's final will into account.
Bah I should have picked up on that. These smurfs are messing with my head.
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Oh I thought iamp had responded to that case for some reason. Let me get to that
~Hapa
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On March 16 2013 14:01 TLCastingGolems wrote: I can't keep up with this fucking thread. So Dirk gets NKed huh? I can't honestly fathom why the fuck mafia would do that when he was essentially a free mislynch apparently. Hopefully it just means they're going to end up out-thinking themselves in the end with fancy shit rather than us.
Anywho, not sheeping onto the OE train yet, until I can get some reads going. Off the top of my head though: I remember I wanted to mention something about Parnassus' last post before the flip, something about OH GOD PLEASE NO DONT LYNCH GOLEMS which seemed really fucking odd, and now he goes and votes himself for no apparent reason. Will be looking into this.
Wait. If you are town, why would you find someone hard defending you like that odd?
[Quote]VE's screamfest reminds me of his play in LX (since that's the only game in which I've played with him), but I've also heard that him getting all emotional is typical of his play no matter what alignment? Probably null but I'm still definitely going to comb through before coming to any decisions.
[Quote]Top scumread for now remains Newbie since he barely responded to my case on him, and despite the fact that he seems to think it all falls apart with Dirk flipping town, it doesn't quite, especially since the only reason scum has to NK Dirk in the first place is to fuck with us and our previous conceptions.
-Wave[/QUOTE]
I'll get to your case in a bit (just found it, you posted it under WoS), but what part of anything here makes sense?
1) In no way do I think "everything falls apart" with Dirk flipping town. In fact I have two rather nice scumreads in ObviousEyes and yourself right now. 2) Explain to me how it makes sense to NK dirk in my position as hypothetical scum. I killed the only guy who was going to get lynched before me. Yeah. Sure.
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Buttfuck. Fixed:
On March 16 2013 14:17 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 14:01 TLCastingGolems wrote: I can't keep up with this fucking thread. So Dirk gets NKed huh? I can't honestly fathom why the fuck mafia would do that when he was essentially a free mislynch apparently. Hopefully it just means they're going to end up out-thinking themselves in the end with fancy shit rather than us.
Anywho, not sheeping onto the OE train yet, until I can get some reads going. Off the top of my head though: I remember I wanted to mention something about Parnassus' last post before the flip, something about OH GOD PLEASE NO DONT LYNCH GOLEMS which seemed really fucking odd, and now he goes and votes himself for no apparent reason. Will be looking into this. Wait. If you are town, why would you find someone hard defending you like that odd? Show nested quote +VE's screamfest reminds me of his play in LX (since that's the only game in which I've played with him), but I've also heard that him getting all emotional is typical of his play no matter what alignment? Probably null but I'm still definitely going to comb through before coming to any decisions.
Top scumread for now remains Newbie since he barely responded to my case on him, and despite the fact that he seems to think it all falls apart with Dirk flipping town, it doesn't quite, especially since the only reason scum has to NK Dirk in the first place is to fuck with us and our previous conceptions.
-Wave I'll get to your case in a bit (just found it, you posted it under WoS), but what part of anything here makes sense? 1) In no way do I think "everything falls apart" with Dirk flipping town. In fact I have two rather nice scumreads in ObviousEyes and yourself right now. 2) Explain to me how it makes sense to NK dirk in my position as hypothetical scum. I killed the only guy who was going to get lynched before me. Yeah. Sure.
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Ok so I'm going to go point-by-point on your case:
Alright. But at the expense of real scumhunting? It's REAL easy to go after all the lurkers/perceived 'obvioius' scum targets. But now consider his own soft defense of himself:
How the fuck does one soft-defend one's self? That doesn't even make sense.
Another soft defense here, this time of scumbudy, DirkHardpec:
I soft-defended my scumbuddy that flipped town. Did you forget that a whole bunch of your case was based on association?
While he once didn't mind our witty antics, look at how he begins to lose his patience with us now that we've begun to catch on.
Me losing patience with an annoying themed gimmick is scummy... how?
Isn't the best kind of lying the kind where you tell the truth? Look at this:
This is a statement, not an accusation. Just because you say I'm "lying" doesn't mean I'm not. You point to a statement and state a conclusion rather than saying why I'm lying in your mind.
He is right, of course. Dirk is scum and we are not. This gives him an easy way to slow-bus a teammate without looking directly scummy, especially since Dirk is doing a good job of bussing himself and is bound to be lynched anyway. If Newbie can eliminate all of the easy town lurkers (while likely sacrificing Dirk) the rest of the town would have found it very difficult to catch him if not for his own contradictions letting him down. Why defend someone saying you're not sure if they're scum yet and defend them in what basically amounts to the same breath?
More association with a guy that flipped town.
So what's up Caster? It sounds like you forgot that half your case was associative with Dirk. The fact that you never attempted to re-evaluate this and are still asking me to respond to the same case in spite of the flip is pretty goddamn scummy.
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I'm amazed that I didn't read that earlier. Fucking hell I would have put you bright red in my night-post.
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And just for effect, this is your entire case AFTER we remove all the associative stuff (that has been proven wrong):
1) I soft defended myself. Wat. 2) I found you annoying. 3) Whatever the hell this bolded section means:
Top scumread for now remains Newbie since he barely responded to my case on him, and despite the fact that he seems to think it all falls apart with Dirk flipping town, it doesn't quite, especially since the only reason scum has to NK Dirk in the first place is to fuck with us and our previous conceptions.
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I'm thinking about it.
Normally I'm pretty sympathetic towards bad cases against me - townies do them all the time.
But caster like forgot that the whole reason he was suspicious of me was because he "thought" Dirk was scum.
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For t3h funsies.
Well not really. I do want an explanation from him.
##unvote ##Vote:TLCastingGolems
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What happened to that whole "DON'T LYNCH HIM OMG" thing btw?
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On March 16 2013 14:47 DrParnassus wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 14:43 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote: What happened to that whole "DON'T LYNCH HIM OMG" thing btw? i was high when i thought of the reasoning for my town read on him. it sounded amazingly perfect, as do all thoughts you have while high
i feel u bro
I hope you will as readily change your mind as on your perma-ban request =(
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