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On March 15 2013 22:30 Vivax wrote: It's not me who you gotta persuade that I'm scum, marv.
It is useful to demonstrate, however, that you try to use your meta to defend yourself when you specifically say you change your meta every game. That's worth other people seeing.
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On March 15 2013 22:37 Vivax wrote: Your case is built up on me not following supersoft when I had other reads than him just cause I commented positively on other things.
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Problem? Is now every guy scum who agrees with someone on some points but doesn't follow him in his reads?
Nope, that's not what I said. What I said was a complete refusal to engage at all. I don't mind you disagreeing with his reads. I don't mind you being wrong, Vivax. I expect you to be eternally wrong. What I do mind is you not trying, even one little bit, to understand where supersoft was coming from.
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On March 15 2013 22:51 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On March 15 2013 22:44 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 22:37 Vivax wrote: Your case is built up on me not following supersoft when I had other reads than him just cause I commented positively on other things.
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Problem? Is now every guy scum who agrees with someone on some points but doesn't follow him in his reads? Nope, that's not what I said. What I said was a complete refusal to engage at all. I don't mind you disagreeing with his reads. I don't mind you being wrong, Vivax. I expect you to be eternally wrong. What I do mind is you not trying, even one little bit, to understand where supersoft was coming from. Still doesn't make me scum. Every other post not spent figuring out where supersoft came from was a post trying to figure out things on my own. This is an awful reason to argue I'm scum. In fact it still doesn't make me trust you. I fried Corazon early over a mistake, which I wouldn't do as scum, before yamato wreaked havoc over the thread (I still think he should be lynched), how about looking for falsification and not confirmation?
I've been looking for falsification all game, why do you think it's night 2 and I'm only now coming to a read I'm happy with?
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On March 15 2013 23:12 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2013 23:08 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 15 2013 23:07 Acrofales wrote:On March 15 2013 22:39 Vivax wrote: That is my non-meta explanation. I also don't try consciously to change my meta every game (although many aspects change apparently cause people keep saying they never know if I'm scum or town), so far I never had a lurky town meta, but I had a lurky scum meta, that's a consequence of motivation to play the game. MTG2 you were pretty lurky at the start and I specifically remember you pointing to some other game where you lurked at the start of the game as town, to back up your "I never lurk as scum, but do as town" reason. Stop this line of reasoning right now. Your town and scum meta are very similar, but I feel the difference is in the conviction with which you push your reads. Vivax was in MtG2? Since when? Talking about Marv's meta, not Vivax. Marv is using his OWN meta to make a meta read on Vivax, which just seems completely pointless. Moreso because he is misquoting his own meta. I think Vivax is probably town, he is too fucking insane to be scum (and I caught him when observing his scumgames, because he is far more placating as scum than as town). So yeah, I will shoot down bogus arguments when I see them.
what drugs are you on? I'm doing nothing of the sort?
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On March 15 2013 23:30 iamperfection wrote: marv i don't think vivax is scum.
I think the fact he doesn't listen to supersoft is an extremely weak point since its pretty clear he doesn't really listen to anyone or anything.
You said you found his first couple to be extremely fake to me it looks like someone that just got served a big fat slice of humble pie.
I knew you'd think that, and I still disagree.
Fortunately we have slOosh to do this and I'm still hoping town KP does us a favour with Vivax at some stage.
I'm gonna try find one more mafia later that I'm reasonably sure on.
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EBWOP: slOosh to deal with
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by the way, iamperfection, these are two of Vivax's votes in LIX:
On January 25 2013 01:05 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote FiveTouch
On January 25 2013 07:19 Vivax wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote gonzaw
Vivax went insane and voted for me, and yet listened to reason, listened to other people, and went back to gonzaw.
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On March 15 2013 23:41 austinmcc wrote: Vivax is not always insane, nor has he always been insane this game. He just seems to cover up his sanity with rambling/conspiracies/whatever. He's not ENTIRELY unreasonable, not even in this game.
It's not a question of sanity/no sanity. If he's insane because he finds things that aren't things, oh well. If he's insane because he finds things that are demonstrably false/he made up in the first place, then I've got more issue with it. I keep going back to him absolutely fabricating what Foolishness said, admitting to not reading the posts, and continuing to argue as to what Foolishness said when he admitted not reading. That wasn't him finding something like this plexa bit, which is a THING, even if misinterpreted. That's him creating a THING out of whole cloth, then using it to be normal vivax.
The genesis of his being vivax, in the case of the foolishness thing early, and I think in a couple other things during the game, is what points most to him being scummy. He's creating his own springboards to launch into being vivax. I don't THINK I've seen him do that as town. I don't think it's a meta thing at all, tbh, but if he were town he should be looking at what's in the thread and drawing strange conclusions, not making up what's in the thread and drawing strange conclusions.
Excellent post. Yes.
By the way, I didn't make quotes when I talked about slOosh earlier, but I want to be quite clear what I'm talking about and why slOosh looks quite so awful:
On March 15 2013 02:41 slOosh wrote:
Why does marv keep dodging? Why does he cherry pick at small things and inflate them? Why doesn't he address the main points and accusations?
Cuz he scum.
On March 15 2013 15:08 slOosh wrote:
But yea, here to talk nevertheless. Just need direction that's all. I haven't had a chance to read your 2 mega posts on Foolishness, but his followup actions inspire no confidence, as does his nonchalant explanation of his role. Seems weird that they would choose to reveal the nature of their roles clearly - I haven't checked the votes but cora could have easily left his votes on yamato, and assuming he is town would have gotten him lynched and kept 3KP for scum this night. Uhh ... but yea that's WIFOM, which doesn't hold up to Foolishness' actions themselves indicating he is scum. Also his ability reminded me of this post.
"why doesn't marv address the main points" "I haven't read marv's mega-posts"
And just to be clear on the timings, I'd made my first 'mega-post' by the time he wrote the first post. He just... hadn't bothered to read it.
.... ok slOosh.
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austin, we need to agree on things more often, so that you can write what I want in an eloquent fashion.
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On March 15 2013 23:48 austinmcc wrote: Can some people who feel like they have a handle on Oats give me a small rundown of meta/what to look for to read him?
I've been looking him back over, because we've still got scum somewhere stealing prplhz's vote.
I am your Oats man. It's kinda like I said in my Night 1 reads post. My opinion's the same.
Primary things to think about:
- Oats will ask pointless questions and contradict himself as town quite regularly - Oats will jump all over the place as town - Oats is suspicious of a lot of people as town
- Oats is scared as mafia - Oats isn't suspicious of many people as mafia
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One other thing to think about, austin, I have no idea why I didn't bring it up at the time - if I were mafia sending in some action to steal a vote, I'd probably avoid the thread during the time I'm doing so.
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On March 15 2013 23:52 austinmcc wrote: Specifically, as to oats, I know that he's always bouncing around, I remember always finding that scummy and him always flipping town.
Does he tend to bounce around from single target to single target? Or does he weave whoever he is scummy on atm into some kind of larger narrative, make lists, find scumteams? If anyone knows, save me the trouble plox.
the former
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On March 16 2013 00:04 GreYMisT wrote: MODERATOR ANNOUNCEMENT!
The illusions fade as the lies are dispersed from the town. cDgCorazon's True Alignment is revealed!
cDgCorazon (Palmar), was TOWN
If that's not a mafia message, I don't know what is.
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Just read the first line.
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On March 16 2013 00:12 Acrofales wrote:Yeah, but which announcement is true now?
The flip is true, quite obviously. If he was town, he would have flipped town.
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I fucking hate mechanics like this.
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Why would mafia death frame a townie as mafia just to reveal him as town later ? That makes absolutely no sense.
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On March 16 2013 00:20 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 00:18 marvellosity wrote: Why would mafia death frame a townie as mafia just to reveal him as town later ? That makes absolutely no sense. 12 hours of discussion based on incorrect information? A townie would never use a death frame? 3rd party wouldn't even know how to use it?
My point is this.
If Corazon flips townie with the nightpost, I look awful immediately. We can agree on this yes? There's no arguing with the hosts, there's no speculation on any abilities, I simply look awful.
In this scenario, there's a lot of doubt about what happened, enough in fact that I'm still pretty convinced Corazon was mafia. Why do it in a manner that makes me look less bad than if Corazon had simply flipped townie in the nightpost?
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On March 16 2013 00:25 kitaman27 wrote: The following message has been sent by Plexa:
Widzę przez cienie, widzę przez ciebie.
I can see the shadows, I see through you
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