EPT/in
Fruity Mafia
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
/in | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 14 2013 07:13 Coagulation wrote: hey guys im town. Ditto | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 14 2013 08:41 Zessionar wrote: i picked risk.nuke, because he's decent as scum and useless and paranoid as town... if he's town, i hope he'll prove me wrong this game... Zess, how exagerated was this statement? You immediately backed off, but I'd like to hear about where you drew the conclusions that risk was A) decent as scum B) Useless and paranoid as town Either of the two would be acceptable, as I think you're scum for pulling reasons out of thin air with no justification. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 14 2013 22:32 Zessionar wrote: both statements were exagerated, but I know what I am talking about. If you know what you are talking about (I am still quite skeptical), then why are you unwilling to share with the rest of the class? | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Yamato seems to genuinely not know about the sandro/syllo dynamic: On February 14 2013 17:07 yamato77 wrote: Why would Syllo think buddying sandro this early is a good idea, if he's town? Assuming that yamato doesn't know of their ability to read one another (S/S), this question seems reasonable as risk alluded to the relationship. On February 14 2013 22:33 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I don't like Risk.nuke questioning posts that are obviously meant as a joke and taking them seriously (Zessioniar's initial vote), then defending himself by saying he's a poor scum player. I don't like WeWin or hiro for keeping information from town but I don't put much weight on it. I don't think Mattchew looks scum, that post doesn't feel scummy to me. Bad, yes, but not scummy. I also don't like your posts because they focus a lot on you and trying to find out what your image is. If you're town, you should be finding scum, not trying to find out how other people think about you. The post on WeWin I like though. Points out the same thing Risk.Nuke was doing; taking peopel posting for a laugh too serious. Considering both things you're null to me. I don't mind risk defending himself by calling himself bad scum because Zess didn't justify anything in either his vote or his followup. I personally read that as an attack against Zess, not a defense. I also disagree that Zess was strictly joking about it, as he still maintains that he kind of has reasons that he wont divulge. On February 14 2013 22:17 Vivax wrote: Mattchew and WeWin have made bad posts so far, layabout didn't give a fuck about the votes on him and his activity has been grotesque. What about your scumreads?You think I'm town? Vivax, show me these "bad posts" from WWM (WeWinMafia) please. I have a slight bone to pick. I know they're kind of in your filter, but I'd like you to do it again if you'd be so kind. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 14 2013 23:22 Vivax wrote: Hopeless, you think This is where I'd probably play the "Why don't you go read my filter" card, but I suspect you've done that and you're fishing for my ##Vote: Zessionar Is this acceptable? On February 15 2013 00:07 Vivax wrote: I'm not antagonizing him for kicks, it's just pointless to ask for something he knows anyway. I'd rather have him ask for my opinion on someone rather than asking me to quote myself. We should probably all just hug each other and smalltalk right. You noticed you'd misquoted WWM believing it to be Zess. I wanted you to go back over it to verify your opinion and show me, with full knowledge of who you were talking about, what you had a problem with because your filter contains false accusations and exaggerated conclusions (on the assumption it was Zess). | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 15 2013 00:21 Zessionar wrote: you vote me, because you dont want to look suspicious? is that correct? I voted for you because I find YOU suspicious, and I felt Vivax was going to jump all over me for not voting because he's pigheaded that way. On February 15 2013 00:20 Vivax wrote: Show me these false accusations and exaggerated conclusions please. COMING RIGHT UP, SIR! On February 14 2013 21:28 Vivax wrote: If you look at the posting timeline between 09:17 and 11:03, Zessionar sticks out. Would you need explanation for what grush said? Is there a followup by Zess? Does this look like a useful question? No. Missing Response Here? (See spoiler) + Show Spoiler + On February 14 2013 11:00 WeWinMafia wrote: funny. And here I thought we already had some of those guys. Oh there it is Again, pointless question, no followup in front of obvious troll votes by grush and Oo. 2 questions while lurking in a 2 hour timeline, no generation of discussion whatsoever, no aggression, but looks serious about what he's doing. Zess posted at 09:17, not WWM. Inconsequential in the grand scheme except it was a driving point about how he had 2 hours to do things, and didn't do things. The timestamps are even in the post you quoted. You completely ignored the followup to grush. It wasn't terrific, but it was there, and to me looks more trolly than serious, contrary to your last sentence. Certainly, a difference in opinion, but when you willfully exclude information to suit your read, it looks scummy. I asked you to verify your standpoint by revisiting the filters you so haphazardly dove, and instead you've spit in my face. However, I know you can be an abrasive player. Which is why I went out of my way to point out that I know you'd already answered the question I asked. I still wanted it answered again. The lapse in you reading Zess as WWM's filter might explain why you were confused, instead of pushing a scummy read with no backing. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
I wouldn't worry, except Vivax asked a leading question, and that explanation was the only reasonable conclusion I could arrive at. Zess accused me of trying to evade suspicion, and I explained my actions and my motivations for doing so. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 15 2013 01:17 Vivax wrote: bleh, nevermind Zess. But I'd like to know your take on WeWin. Null. His last post is pushing him onto the townish side from the "oh shit, I asked grush a question /facepalm". | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 15 2013 02:23 Vivax wrote: Marv, you're a party pooper. That was semi-serious, according to yamato you need a justification for every pressure you apply as town, and if you don't justify it you're mafia? If you dont/cant/wont justify your actions, you shouldnt be talking because its just pointless noise. Yam has the right of the matter, get your head out of your ass. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 15 2013 09:26 marvellosity wrote: to your question about the strongest townplayers. I have very little grasp of any of super/syllo/toad's alignments. At all. Perhaps I lean a bit town on syllo because he was attentive in picking up things, and yet he's not pushed much. Hopeless. Will explain later/tomorrow. I look forward to it. On February 15 2013 10:11 layabout wrote: because you know, yamato was pretty vague in his accusations: He also jumps from "Zess being stupid with that vote" to "I do think Zess is likely mafia at this point. His attempts at "scum hunting" are truly pathetic. + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 00:33 yamato77 wrote: I've never seen syllo and sandro in the game at the same time, yet I'm supposed to know they're all buddy buddy all the time? Zess being stupid with that vote. Why are you trying to accuse me over questioning syllo's intentions? + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 01:51 yamato77 wrote: Marv I would say looks quite town, yes. I don't know about risk, but the fact that he's looking at Zess is encouraging. I do think Zess is likely mafia at this point. His attempts at "scum hunting" are truly pathetic. Suddenly zess being "stupid" has become zess is "bad" and "is mafia" because of this. The criticism is the same in both cases but the conclusion changes. When asked to clarify why zess is scum he describes his scumhunting as "careless" which tend to be a townie trait. And that he shows a "disregard for justification" which he himself has also shown.+ Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 02:00 yamato77 wrote: I'm attacking how he is scum hunting, which is carelessly and with no regard for justification. I think yamato felt that he could safely put his vote on zessionar following (Artanis[Xp] and Hopeless1der) because he had been the center of discussion. He was not prepared to back it up because he has no good reasons and because he is mafia and wants to get his vote down and hide from attention. I accept. ##Unvote: Zessionar ##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
On February 15 2013 02:18 marvellosity wrote: Hey Vivax. Did you learn shit from LIX? I hope for the sake of my faith in my humanity, the answer is yes. Maybe try to play like you learnt something. My tolerance level this game for stupid shenannies will be markedly lower. A greater portion of the posts you quoted were in response or regarding Vivax in some way. Suppose my first instinct is to respond in a "fuck off and die in a fire" manner. Now suppose I am trying to curb that instinct, but still want to hold some type of reasonable discourse. The result is the posts you've taken issue with. Regarding the drop in pressure on Zess, don't worry that's coming back momentarily. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
##Unvote: Yamato77 ##Vote: Zessionar Here's why I find his initial vote, and the follow-ups scummy: On February 14 2013 07:38 Zessionar wrote: ##vote: risk.nuke he has a 26,66 % chance to flip scum. Its not supposed to be random (I Think?), but theres still a statistic there. Also, that statistic is NOT 4/16 like it should be, its 4/15, which assumes Zess is town. (Super)soft townclaim People assume it was a joke, yet its followed up by: On February 14 2013 08:41 Zessionar wrote: i picked risk.nuke, because he's decent as scum and useless and paranoid as town... if he's town, i hope he'll prove me wrong this game... When I have the audacity to be like "wtf u doin bro?" On February 14 2013 08:46 Hopeless1der wrote: ... And I kind of just left it to see if anyone else gave a shit. I don't buy that it was a complete joke, which is why I brought it back up later. I asked him how exaggerated things were, and he replied: On February 14 2013 22:32 Zessionar wrote: both statements were exagerated, but I know what I am talking about. Still alluding to the notion that he has reasoning for his "joke" vote. It's not like I'm not the only person who voiced concern about this either: On February 15 2013 00:34 marvellosity wrote: one other thing. clearly you have no idea what you're talking about. if people call you up on your bs, going "but... i'm right" funnily enough doesn't make you right. I don't think you're mafia right now, but don't pretend to be something or somebody that you're not. On February 15 2013 00:40 Zessionar wrote: lol marv, are you insane? His response to marv, regarding risk being "decent scum" is complete bullshit. Why would a townie ever fabricate that? Am I actually that dense that I completely missed the humor here? There seemed to be little if any reason for jollies. He finally "explains" his vote...+ Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 00:58 Zessionar wrote: hahaha, i just wanted to say something nice along with useless and paranoid... quite perceptive... yeah i dont think so. risk used to be like vivax. he didnt read, but kept posting derailing stuff. And his explanation is called out as nonsense: + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 01:00 marvellosity wrote: So... you voted for him because you think he's bad at town and bad at mafia? That makes no sense If he's bad at mafia then he's catchable, and your entire reasoning is nonsense. Come clean please On February 15 2013 01:03 Zessionar wrote: where are you going with that shit, marv? do you want to make me look bad because of my super-earlygame posts? screw you. discussion ends right here. and he moves to just sweep it riiight under the rug. This ends why I find his initial vote scummy Moving right along, Zess comes in with this fantastic plan: On February 15 2013 02:18 Zessionar wrote: Another topic: Masons, claim! No, wait not that one...that ended in burgers. On February 15 2013 04:32 Zessionar wrote: and get your useless votes away from me. i am town and i - in contrast to everyone who voted me - will be able to prove that with my reads. This one? hmmm maybe not. On February 15 2013 23:04 Zessionar wrote: Okay, we have about 9 hours left if i am correct: 2. ObviousOne Filter 4. Mattchew Filter 7. HiroPro Filter 10. Hopeless1der Filter 11. Artanis[Xp] Filter 13. yamato77 Filter 14. grush57 Filter 15. layabout Filter in the next 5 hours, i want everyone to focus on these players. I know it's half of the players in this game. One of them will be lynched today. in 5 hours, we will break the list down to 4 of them and in 7 hours i want only 2 of them left and in 8 hours, i want to have one guy with enough votes for a lynch. that's my plan. Marv, toad I expect you to be helping me there. Oh here's the one. Wait, this is shit too, wtf is going on here? This "plan" has no justification as being useful or necessary. It also lets Zessionar just sheep into the town's choices since it was his list to begin with. I don't need to be corralled into consolidation. Do you? Consider his "speed" analysis': + Show Spoiler + On February 15 2013 23:34 Zessionar wrote: 2. ObviousOne Filter: 1 page this game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=397206&user=263107 old VT day1 game http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359836&user=263107 he's really only trolling this game. He was playing much more serious in his last game. either blue or scum. makes no sense as VT - trolling newbie players that are VT are definetely playing against their wincondition. He stays in the lynchlist. 4. Mattchew Filter: 1 page Vivax I think I underestimated your actual abilities and underestimated your confidence... These lead to a misguided read on you... I don't necessarily agree with how you've started this game but I'm leaning a little more null on you... Revealing supersoft is pretty towny IMO too. "is pretty townie" i'd like to hear why this is pretty townie tbh. I don't know why he's buddying up with vivax. Mattchews playstyle makes no sense to me so far. He has no goal... But well could be game specific... He should stay in the lynchlist for now 7. HiroPro Filter: 1 page "Also I demand that marvellosity share who this person he wanted to lynch in the beginning was." This is kind of townish. As scum i don't really want to remind marv of his secret target... I'd let him off the hook for today :-/ I mean his mostcount surely looks terrible but everyones post count looks terrible... 10. Hopeless1der Filter the whole discussion about my game-starter-vote on risk seems to be so exagerated from my point of view... I think it was obvious, that this vote had almost no deeper meaning... Maybe it's my fault that people put too much thinking into this... I think accusing me for that randomvote was the perfect situation for scum to look like contributing. don't know if hopeless is just bad and didnt see how unimportant that whole thing was, or i am bad that i put too much effort into explaining something, that had no explanation in the first place or he's scum... "I voted for you because I find YOU suspicious, and I felt Vivax was going to jump all over me for not voting because he's pigheaded that way." hmmm i don't like that very much... it's so weak. These votes on me are just terrible. I if you're town and you want to win, you don't want to lynch me. That's just dumb. Everyone who does a little research knows, that i get shot early as town... but whatever. It's just sad, that many players do no research about their favourite lynchcandidate. I mean a bad case should be a scumtell, because a townie that wants to win is either honest and says he didnt do his homework or he fucking does his homework and doesnt come up with terrible cases. __________________________________________________ first four players... speedanalysis... He very quickly dismissed HiroPro. Why not do this beforehand? He barely even reaches a conclusion about me, but there's a problem in there too: On February 15 2013 23:34 Zessionar wrote: I if you're town and you want to win, you don't want to lynch me. That's just dumb. Everyone who does a little research knows, that i get shot early as town... but whatever. It's just sad, that many players do no research about their favourite lynchcandidate. I mean a bad case should be a scumtell, because a townie that wants to win is either honest and says he didnt do his homework or he fucking does his homework and doesnt come up with terrible cases. I don't give two shits about you getting shot early, ESPECIALLY in a game with marvellosity, sandroba and syllogism as your competition for the "who eats the first bullet" contest. Trying to pass this off as conclusive proof of township, or at least unlynchability is in my eyes a very scummy manoeuvre to belittle his attackers. A brief interlude into meta, from Dessert Mini Mafia: On January 13 2013 09:28 supersoft wrote: Okay announcement: Don't talk about pointless SHIT!!! scum loves to talk about pointless stuff. Do when the game is over. Right now we're playing the game and we're not in some kind of off-topic thread! FOCUS!!! Don't let this game end in a mess like the Kurumi game! Pointless shit, say for example: mccurrywurst? I don't see useful contributions coming out of Zessionar. His vote is no where to be found, and I have no idea where its going either: On February 15 2013 16:58 Zessionar wrote: You need like one page of text for your argument which is: Zess is throwing around votes for no reason, that leads to an environment where everyone votes for no reason. But I really only did it very early on, where votes obviously mean almost nothing. And I did it to get the game going. The phase of fooling around, to get the game going is over now. ##unvote and hell yes i am noncomittal because it's fucking day1 and i have enough time left to take a stance. If I want to lynch marv or anyone else, you will notice and i won't vote anyone (from now on) for no damn good reason. your case against me is completely pointless, because all that doesnt make me scummy. However, if you were to skim Dessert, where he's so proud to have caught the 3rd-party SK, he has no problem whatsoever in telling people they're scum, check if you don't believe me. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=392955&user=64722¤tpage=All Limited source, but there are some similarities between that filter and EmileZola's filter (WBG+SS Smurf-Hydra) in Normal IV: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=394344&user=296899¤tpage=All Especially the lists of reads, and the overall aggressiveness, which is something sandroba picked up on already in this game. | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
##Unvote: Zessionar | ||
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
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Hopeless1der
United States5836 Posts
Between Vivax and Yamato I'd prefer Vivax. After reading through WWM I get nothing out of his filter that tells me he's scum. Aside from sandroba having a hunch, I don't see a good reason to go down that road. | ||
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