|
On February 10 2013 14:08 jaybrundage wrote:
But Mocsta you didn't really give your opinions on the VE lynch are you just going after phagga or does VE appeal to you as well?
VE is of appeal to me. But he is experienced and according to others slippery. A mislynch Day3 + 3 townies for nomination, would make the game 5-4 heading into Day5.
I think it is essential we hit scum Day 3; and i think phagga has enough evidence in his filter to build a substantial non-return case out of (in fact, most of the case work has been done by sl0osh/Mr.CC).
TL;DR
We need to clear a scum Day 3. hit the guy with the highest chance to be scum (phagga), not the guy with the highest potential to fuck town up (VE).
Im leading Day3 with a phagga vote. (if not voted)
|
On February 10 2013 14:33 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote:On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote:
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.
MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. Only JX is confirmed. Slip of the "scum-gue"
Sorry. didnt see this CC.
On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
who's the second guy to have flipped town? that case was so bad. Because someone is wrong doesnt make them scum. Phagga, lol.
Wont take credit for it. fuckn sniped again.
|
(1)
On February 10 2013 09:40 phagga wrote:Since Sloosh specifically asked for it: + Show Spoiler +On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote:
I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Show nested quote +Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level.
Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler +Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:26 phagga wrote:I was rereading your dialogue with Sloosh, and the other post was already big enough. 1: I don't like how you accused him of making an association case (which he was clearly not), and 2: how you tried to dodge his questions. you not wanting to give town reads is not really alignment indicative. 3: You're case on Mocsta is rather weak, the tone of his posts vs Oats is completely different than what you posted from his scum game. 4: Your reaction to sloosh's questions feel over the top. You seem to bark at him for no good reason instead of just trying to answer his questions. It feels partially like someone who just got caught in the act and tries to hide it. Specially the following two posts stick out: On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:
I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far.
What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum.
You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. and On February 07 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:
Let's talk about why YOU think Phagga is mafia, Sloosh. You've said you think I should because of similarity to Mocsta, but aside from your first post you've done little to justify the read in the way of meaningful analysis from a personal perspective. 5: Afterwards everything else is just you attacking him until prplhz points out to you that it might be beneficial for you to actually answer slooshs question. The way you explained why you thought I was town actually showed that you have reasons to believe so, and it's not because you'd actually know my alignment, which seems townish. Still, due to your reaction I slightly lean scum on you. Regarding Sloosh: Nothing I have read so far indicates that he would be scum. The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler +And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:
I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. Doesn't do so. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote:
Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 09:52 phagga wrote:
- VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there.
Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote:
I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite.
I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did.
phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something"
(2)
On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote:
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.
MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs
On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
who's the second guy to have flipped town? On February 10 2013 09:47 phagga wrote:
There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), ....
phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete.
[You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"]
In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment.
Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now"
Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon
|
On February 10 2013 17:04 yamato77 wrote:
One thing I will say today is that I don't think VE is mafia at the moment. Drunk VE was very town last night. <3 drunk VE.
Please translate which one.
I think VE is a probably townie read and will defend him if/when pressure is applied, OR;
I think VE is a leaning townie and willing to hear out pressure if/when applied
|
Fair enough.
Well my vote is most likely on Palmar tomorrow.
I am waiting to read this super post I think he said he was going to deliver, before making a final decision.
I also recognise sl0osh contributed significantly with the phagga read/case, but, frankly, I was expecting him to step up more. In particular after his promises on how to manage the nomination days. Its almost as if he made the case, and then regressed back to late Day1.
|
Good point. Thanks for the reminder.
*Too entrenched with re-formatting my computer*
Sorry this is Off-Topic, so PM if you know the answer.
[fluff question I am hoping someone here knows]
i have a game on Origin, BUT the account i created was a typo'd email addy (i.e. I never verified it)
Somehow, it still let me buy a game (so didnt realise till too late).
I cant find an email address to contact Origin to find out how to fix this, and have been waiting 1hr30min for the Live Chat (and still waiting)
|
After seeing those posts from palmar I'm conflicted.
I know Palmar doesn't tend to rely on meta. So I can understand the doubt with prplhz. His play style to me is inherently scummy or at the least very self-centered. I think it really is between prplhz/VE as 1 scum.
I will have to reread yamato. His case on me was terrible, and he didn't even bother to defend my counter case asking me to reread thinking he was town... When I reread it, none of it still made any sense. I haven't minded his actions post that case, but will reread.
I still think phagga is the best candidate for day3.
SlOosh, may I ask who you are planning to lead with on day3?
|
Oats.
Fair points on prplhz. Trying to get info out of him is like trying to make olive oil from olives and bare hands....
What are your thoughts on Palmar read of yamato77?
|
Anyone actively lurking
Would you be against a policy lynch on Djodref?
Its getting ridiculous now how long it has been since his last post.
On February 08 2013 02:36 Djodref wrote:Well, I don't want to lynch JieXian if he wants to lynch Palmar. Regarding your last post about Palmar, here is my take. Town Palmar lynches scum (like in Hero Mini Mafia) or trolls like there is no tomorrow (like in LVIII). Here I seriously doubt that prplhz is scum, so I doubt that Palmar is town. I would also like to remind you that you sheeped onto Palmar's wagon at some point in this game 
That is basically close to 72hours with no feedback what so ever.
|
Palmar,
I am choosing sl0osh due to motivation and activity. Hopefully one day I will get to see the full force of Palmar in action.
Thank you for sharing your reads with us; I think this will at the least help to set towns path in the right direction.
##Vote: Palmar
|
phagga,
With the current situation and your perceived town cred; I think it is best if you stop trying to fling shit where ever it will stick. I know you only have two hours set aside each thus; thus, I recommend you use that time to respond to the accusations from sl0osh and Mr. CC.
I am sure you are more than aware of these - I mean, I don't want to insult your intelligence et. al - so I am just letting you know a response has been outstanding on these items for over 48 hours.
|
On February 11 2013 06:53 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On February 10 2013 14:58 Mocsta wrote:(1) On February 10 2013 09:40 phagga wrote:Since Sloosh specifically asked for it: + Show Spoiler +On February 09 2013 17:19 slOosh wrote:+ Show Spoiler +
The low hanging fruit in this game is phagga. If you familiarize yourself with his meta (nicely displayed in his profile and devoid of any scum games), it becomes clearer that he is new scum whose play pales to his town play. I've pointed out in my earliest post what I found about phagga to be interesting. On February 07 2013 01:21 slOosh wrote:
I found phagga's entry into the game pretty weak (of all the things to talk about he picked out something pretty minor) and his "coaching" of Mocsta very unnatural. What are your thoughts on him? I pointed it out when I distracted myself by latching onto the yamato thing here, but the tells are pretty valid. He has a focus on lurkers, "contributing" statistics and reasoning. His "coaching" is very awkward, as seen: On February 06 2013 18:09 phagga wrote:Regarding you, Mocsta, I don't agree with VE that you tried to establish a good town atmosphere. You are writing calm, but some things you posted like Show nested quote +Oats, this game is obviously too much of a step up in difficulty for your current forum-mafia skill level.
Just quit and let someone that knows how to play replace you. are not helping creating a good town atmosphere. Did you really think Oats would say "oh well, I guess he's right, can I get a replacement GMarshal?" This subtle stabs have a tendency to poison town atmoshpere much more than the shouting of Oats did, and I did not like this at all. Considering that everything else you posted is barely alignement indicative, I'll be interested to see more from you. Awkward checklist: - Talking to Mocsta rather than VE concerning Mocsta's play, over something he disagrees with VE about. - Stating that Mocsta is writing calmly, but then dismissing everything else by saying it is alignment null, i.e. devoid of content - Pointing out to the subject himself the problems with his play rather than convincing / discussing with other people. Compare this to a D1 post (about three quarters into cycle) from Wheel of Fortune Mafia: On April 23 2012 16:22 phagga wrote:Mr. Zentor: I don't like how his " really long post" was actually not long at all, but only full of quotes. If we ignore the quotes, the post was quite short. So why announce it as long? His case on prplhz was weak, and when asked a second time why he thought that prplhz was still scummy, he never answered. His style is unnecessarily aggresive. VisceraEyes: His Filter shows 5 ingame posts, which is more than I have, but unlike me he is notorious for being very active borderline on spamming, trying to direct people and generally being helpful to town. He is completely lacking these features this game. His townread post is suspicious, I can't remember him making townlists like this in the last games? His behaviour currently reminds of the Bastard game we just were in, where he was SK. Ace: I don't like how he has basically been talking about game mechanics and shown no interest in hunting scum. However, I've read some games where he was in (last was space station) and I think this is part of his D1 play? Not entirely sure. Radfield: He would not have shown up in this list was it not for sbrubbles points. I think they are very legit, and I look forward to Radfields reaction. Very straightforward, gives clear thoughts and explanations, talks to town in general rather than the subjects. Why don't you compare it to GLS open mini Mafia which is newer and show that I can have weak entrances as town as well? + Show Spoiler +Another contrast is his fear of taking a hard stance, a common tell among newer scum players. Notice how many scum tells phagga is able to point out, and compare that with his final conclusion: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 06:26 phagga wrote:I was rereading your dialogue with Sloosh, and the other post was already big enough. 1: I don't like how you accused him of making an association case (which he was clearly not), and 2: how you tried to dodge his questions. you not wanting to give town reads is not really alignment indicative. 3: You're case on Mocsta is rather weak, the tone of his posts vs Oats is completely different than what you posted from his scum game. 4: Your reaction to sloosh's questions feel over the top. You seem to bark at him for no good reason instead of just trying to answer his questions. It feels partially like someone who just got caught in the act and tries to hide it. Specially the following two posts stick out: On February 07 2013 03:42 yamato77 wrote:
I said I agree with the general scumminess of phagga, in that he has some of the things I think mafia might do in his play so far.
What I didn't tell you is why I doubt those, and I'm not going to. You've got to do better than equate phagga to Mocsta to prove he's scum.
You're making an association case here, which is incredibly scummy this early in day 1. and On February 07 2013 03:45 yamato77 wrote:
Let's talk about why YOU think Phagga is mafia, Sloosh. You've said you think I should because of similarity to Mocsta, but aside from your first post you've done little to justify the read in the way of meaningful analysis from a personal perspective. 5: Afterwards everything else is just you attacking him until prplhz points out to you that it might be beneficial for you to actually answer slooshs question. The way you explained why you thought I was town actually showed that you have reasons to believe so, and it's not because you'd actually know my alignment, which seems townish. Still, due to your reaction I slightly lean scum on you. Regarding Sloosh: Nothing I have read so far indicates that he would be scum. The counterbalance to five points is yamato's town read explanation "which seems townish". There's a clear disconnect here people. phagga's newb scum play is showing: he is afraid of committing to a stance despite being able to list much evidence. That's just my usual insecurities that you can find in any game of me. The conclusion was how I felt about him, not how I should have interpreted the facts that I just listed. It was an error, you are right, my stance should have been stronger than it was. + Show Spoiler +And there are the empty promises he often makes, because he can't make actual reads: Show nested quote +On February 07 2013 18:55 phagga wrote:
I will read up on Djo and Snarfs at the next possibility and comment on them. Doesn't do so. Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 02:51 phagga wrote:
Snarf I feel unsure about, have to read up fully on his case on VE. I currently think he might be right about VE, so I do not want to lynch him Doesn't comment on the case at all, and his "grilling of VE" concludes somehow, with this: Show nested quote +On February 08 2013 09:52 phagga wrote:
- VE is not a good lynch today, i do not agree with prplhz there.
Show nested quote +On February 09 2013 16:21 phagga wrote:
I have a small post put together with thoughts/questions on some other players before yesterday but did not post it because I did not want to influence nominations. I will not post it right now, as D2 is fresh and the current vote discussion is more important, but I will put it up later (latest beginning of D3). More excuses not to post reads, because he doesn't have any. For someone who "took my advice" on rereading the thread (seriously why credit me with that), he clearly didn't read anything else I had to say since he is doing the exact opposite.
I'd say that one is at least partially refuted by the post you missed. And sometimes you lack the time/forget that you wanted to follow up on someone (which kinda happened with djo). Example, VE also wanted to follow up on me very early in the game, and never did. phagga, the overall tone of this defense is: meek, and generally reads as "hey, you got me; im saying something cos I have to say something" (2) On February 07 2013 13:08 yamato77 wrote:
In fact, let me go down my list and tell you guys exactly what I think of the game so far. I know you all hate list posts but whatever, deal with it.
MAFIA
Palmar
JX
Snarfs On February 10 2013 08:13 phagga wrote:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town, that's how much he figured out the game. On February 10 2013 08:19 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
who's the second guy to have flipped town? On February 10 2013 09:47 phagga wrote:
There was a sentence lost somewhere. It should say:
Two of his 3 scum reads have already turned out to be town (If we assume Palmar is town, which most people seem to do by now), ....
phagga, maybe you did leave the sentence out, but (IMHO) the original phrase reads pretty complete. [You were having a dig at him hence the "that's how much he figured out the game"] In fact, it read so smoothly I have no reason to think you would have considered your addendum (i.e. assume Palmar is town) when writing the comment. Also, at this stage it seems Palmar is leading the nomination votes; so odd you auto-assume he is town. Your addendum phrasing reads as if you knew Palmar was town, and happy everyone caught up to your knowledge "by now" Also, odd that you base your town read on Palmar, because "most people seem to do". This is the Fallacy: Bandwagon In short, I only have a limited time playing this game, normally about 2 hours a day, today even less. I'm not gonna waste a lot of time defending myself, and instead try to find scum. Should I get misslynched D3 that would suck, but it's not the end of the world for town, since they can still start lynching scum D5 and win the game (assuming nominations end up all townie). Regarding my "scum-slip", believe what you want, I'll say this final thing on the matter: Scum slips normally happen when players post something rushed, a few lines to comment immediatly. I have never played scum, but I doubt I'd scumslip like this in a post I prepared for almost 2 hours. You insult my intelligence.
phagga.
Firstly i am not going to hammer vote someone because of a scum slip.
In your case, this slip is icing on a very very large cake.
I disagree with your line of thought though. Slips are nothing to do with rushing a post unless we're talking freudian slip.
But let us not insult your intelligence here. We're obviously not.
I would contest that spending two hours on your post is even more reason not to have a slip in the first place.
Further if that was the best content you could muster in two hours.. Well the only comment i have is an insult to your intelligence.
You see it is scum who always feel a desire to proof read and thus arebthe ones who require large amounts of time. Ironically thwn town is the one who rushes . Does not check . Hence leading to freudian slips.
So where does that leave us.
Simple phagga.
You
fucked
up.
That slip read natural to you because you couldnt separate yourself from the knowledge you have over town. Its that simple.
Tl.dr
i pulled out 2 hard scum slips in your short response and one very poor fallacy. Yet you took two hours. Admit it. You fucked up. Its ok. We al done it before when rolling scum.
|
On February 11 2013 08:03 slOosh wrote:
My vote will be on Mocsta, by process of playing experience / strength.
I believe him town and really appreciate his efforts, but other than Palmar there is no one left in the playerlist that I have a strong town read on and someone who can help me focus town in getting right lynches.
That said I don't want this to be the cause for bad blood, and if you guys think I'm scum for it, I'm fine with being lynched too.
##Vote: Mocsta
no bad blood.
If palmar was committed i was happy to be voted off as weakest scum hunter of the three.
I stated this prior.
Having said that. Me surprised palmar is your strongest read but whatever. If we're still in. No bad blood from me.
|
Even though my last post reads biased to you phagga.
U put some effort in the defense. I will read it with open eyes
|
prplhz
Now that I know you're here.
Not sure if you realise, but guys like me and I assume Oats etc, think the things above about you; simply because you're a vet.
With that experience and reputation comes an expectation. Perhaps your town play in general is self-centered, but if you are town, we really need you to chip in more and provide your thoughts.
You say you were against JX, fine, that either shows two things
(1) Your scum and knew he was town
OR
(2) You're highly experienced, could see through the bullshit and made a right decision.
I want to believe its (2), but the only way that can be confirmed is if you start sharing more of your insight.
At the end of Day1, you were suspicious of Jay.
I questioned him somewhat, and he was a bit more active early this nomination day.
Is he still your top suspect to pursue come Day 3?
|
Yeppo
VE did a chainsaw defense.
And we all know chainsaw defense => scum tell (usually)
|
Well jay, sorry to say this, but im pretty sure that vote change is after the deadline.
will see what mr. mod says.
luckily you voted before, otherwise may have been modkillable.
|
Ohhh i thought the deadline was 1hr ago LOl
|
WTF.. Oats didnt vote?
Guess Chinese New Year took its toll with oats/djo.
GG Palmar. Even though you activity was low, you still managed to be transparent enough to establish innocent. Pretty impressive actually given the post count.
|
On February 11 2013 11:14 jaybrundage wrote:
Im not happy this was a shitty pick for a lynch
U know what is shitty jay
you coming in 30min before lynch trying to pep-talk ppl to swap
and then have the stones to come here and say
"shitty pick"
What are you even trying to achieve here? If you wanted Palmar in so bad, perhaps should have done it 6 hrs earlier when most of the USA/Europe shift was online.
The consensus is the list was 3 townies; you are not getting any brownie points for sticking up for Palmar here from me.
*This is nothing to do with that you voted me, its to do with your intent. its pointless*
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
