EPT/in
TL Mafia LIX
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gonzaw
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/in | ||
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gonzaw
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This will be fun  EDIT: Or Double lynchers, mayor/sheriff/bodyguard for that matter! (at least in TL) inb4 I get Miller | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On January 15 2013 07:32 Toadesstern wrote: because it's an official position and that name sucks Your name sucks! > : ( | ||
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gonzaw
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Is it after MTG Mini mafia? | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 15 2013 16:18 wherebugsgo wrote: regardless of the consequences I have to be honest, it was pretty fucking hilarious. When I found out what he did I loled for a while Why was he modkilled? I wanted him to show us his Keynesian analysis of the momentum of the Prius force determined by the Cornoullie principle applied to inter-social relationships in an informed minority game!  | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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The only other "big game" I've played in were Bureaucracy and Aperture Mafia 1. AM was so long ago, and BM was kind of boring (being persecuted lonely scum and all), so I take it this will be quite a change for me lol | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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You can't premature-lynch him just yet | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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I plan to run for mayor, always wanted to in TL but never had the chance I'll have the chance to fuck some scum on D1 fuck yeah. I'm kind of busy right now, in a moment I'll make the "official" campaign. | ||
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gonzaw
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![[image loading]](http://londonlions.nettisivu.org/files/2011/05/lion-logo_c8dc.jpg){kind=logo} Gonzaw's super complicated mayor campaign My candidacy is based on these 2 things: 1)I'll try to establish my innocence as much as I can 2)I'll try my best to hunt scum today, and everyday from now on That's it. (1) So yeah, the point of this is so we don't have paranoid townies not being sure of me being town, which can be a huge problem later on since (with mafia's help surely) they'll feel like the only way to do anything would be lynching the mayor. This also disrupts the game and yadda yadda yadda you guys know the rest. (2)This one is obvious won't even touch it. Here's the thing: I don't really expect to put up any "plans" or a "formal campaign", nor post propositions of what I'll do, like what I'm going to do regarding lurkers or what I'm going to do regarding blue claims or whatever. That's pointless and nobody gives a shit about it and even if they did nobody would listen to me about "lurkers" or anything. Also it's not like the stances on those kind of issues are not "standard" anyways. I wont' also just say "vote for me" and that's it, since it doesn't give you guys the idea I really want to be mayor and I'm just a "well, I wouldn't mind being mayor I guess, so I can well say 'guys I want to be mayor' or something" "But gonzaw, how are we supposed to trust you/know you'll catch scum/be sure you are town/be sure you'll be a good mayor so I can vote for you RIGHT NOW!?" Yeah that's the thing. Like....every single mayor campaign is bullshit, like 99% of them (with the exception of the ones based on PM games and intricate blue plans and shit and the mayor candidate has a plan for that, but sadly we can't PM freely in this game), it's just fluff to "convince" people to vote for you right off the bat. That's not how it works, this is how it works: Just forget about the whole mayor campaign and let's play normally. Once we are deep into D1, then go back and see if I'm worthy of being mayor. Not just me, but anybody else. Don't rely on reputation alone, since the guy could either be scum or just not give a shit/be bad mayor/have bad reads/not establish himself as town successfully. Although good reputation usually precedes good play if the guy is town. Don't rely on mayor campaign posts alone, since the guy could be bullshitting from his teeth or just try to spout as much "pro-town" stuff he can even if he doesn't believe half the shit he says Now, this post itself may seem hypocritical since you guys may start to think "Wow, he seems to make sense! Maybe he'll be a good mayor in the end...wait a minute he's bullshitting us!". So yeah, read all of this only as advice instead of like a full-on-blown campaign for me to be mayor, and as time goes by, go back to points (1) and (2) and see if you think I'd be a worthy mayor candidate. With that said, let's start this shit. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 20 2013 11:55 sandroba wrote: i'm not running for mayor muahahaha that's my evil plan! i might lynch prpl anyway despite being a commoner *sandroba doesn't try to take full advantage of the setup to stampede town to a win* Seems like sandro flipped scum again. Unless you plan on telling us why you are not giving a shit about the mayor candidacy, which you would obviously do as town? | ||
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gonzaw
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Would you mind giving us a "snip" of this "serious Chezinu" you'll become if you were to be mayor? Although promises like these are generally empty, the fact that you never made a promise like this before maybe means it's legit lol | ||
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gonzaw
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What made you go from this: On January 20 2013 10:55 Toadesstern wrote: well basicly everyone who's considered a vet is an option for me right now, that means I want the towniest out of: Toad, gonzaw, Annul, prplhz, Sandroba, Chezinu (technically speaking that is), maybe BKE and austin idk. I'm not geting voted into office due to paranoia (and hypno-toadish-ness) so that's sadly not an option. If Sandro is town we need to figure that out as quickly as possible and make him mayor though. ..to this?: On January 20 2013 12:54 Toadesstern wrote: looks like we have to vote someone into office who's usually not a decent candidate at all if Sandroba is not running... You not getting elected 10 times in a row isn't exactly something nice, is it? :p Prplhz seems to be running on bullshit Gonzaw is someone who noone with a functioning brain should want in a position of power Same probably goes for me and Chezinu... Gawd I was so hoping for Sandroba and now I'm stuck with these people... we really needed more vets in this game, this is troublesome You did show intent on voting any of those guys initially, as long as they were the "towniest" out of that group, but then out of nowhere you discard most of those "vets", even when not much happened in between. Also what's this about "nobody with a functioning brain should want (gonzaw) in a position of power"? Care to expand on that? Other than not being "very sure" in some games, when I'm town I can catch scum fairly easy (relatively speaking), specially on D1. Aperture Mafia II should attest to that. | ||
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gonzaw
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Why would you vote Chezinu before any other guys? Is it just his "Imma be serious" claim? | ||
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gonzaw
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)You do realize it's a completely different kind of game than "standard" mafia right? The anti-town factions in that game weren't trying to hide like they do in normal games. I'm good at catching the anti-town guys trying to hide  Toad, what do you make of sandro not running for mayor? He didn't post anything other than that too, although I think he made another one-liner. For the life of me I can't figure out a "plan" town sandro can come up with that doesn't deal with him being mayor, so he's either bullshitting or severely sub-optimally playing (from his POV if he's town). Anyways it's getting late so Imma play some fifa and go to sleep | ||
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gonzaw
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*I'm good at catching the anti-town guys trying to hide (except SKs, fuck those guys I can never read them correctly ) | ||
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gonzaw
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1)Vivax made his "campaign post" as soon as the game started, and completely disappeared. If he was town actually trying to be mayor...one would have thought he'd keep around trying to either do what town does (hunt scum as early as possible and start discussion) or at the very least answer questions regarding his mayor campaign. 2)Stutters' entrance in the game seemed pretty underwhelming. Even though there's nothing "solid" to go on about most people, he just seemed to ask seemingly "unrelated" questions without trying to participate that much in discussions. I saw him make his first "weak" post (at least in a general sense), then ask some questions, "lurk" in between and ask some other questions. It's not much to go on, I'd want him to take a stance on the whole sandro issue and other candidates perhaps. There are some guys I don't even know, like Fivesomething and Donotsomething, I take it they are smurfs? | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 20 2013 15:03 AxleGreaser wrote: QUOTE]On January 20 2013 14:18 gonzaw wrote: Axle, in pre-game did you want to be mayor or not? I never fully understood that. Why would you vote Chezinu before any other guys? Is it just his "Imma be serious" claim? These look like actual questions. Answering backwards order cos its easier. Why Vote chez + Show Spoiler + Chezinu is someone I surprisingly can usually think I understand. His I am always honest claim is one I would bank on. I just have to try real hard to see what I think he says. I think he counts on scum not bothering that hard. His I just wanna survive and have fun is another thing I believe as a truth about him. His two quoted posts are plausible and self consistent. If being mayor lets him open up and Go... That I want to see. Exactly what that means how direct would he be, how good is he, these i don't know. My votes are way to get a better glimpse of what he is then prepared to show. The chezinu vote is real, in the sense that: it is real, iff he then ponies up the right amount of collateral to support his claimed potential changes in play style. Sounds like good trade. the other Vets will just live longer if Mayor, Chezinu will potentially live longer and play better? As a feel read approach to why the vote... I am reminded of really old game called Master Of magic The guide to it says they would like to see the AI summon Toren Once, just once. Toren in that game is a virtual force of nature, one game strategy is to summon toren but it requires such huge resource commitment that normally you just could have won the other way. I wish to Summon a Chezinu once. regarding my pregame posts. There is in most players mind a large wall between pregame and now. there is not in my mind. I laid down a page of filter for reals, the scumminess of the reads was tongue in cheek as we had no PMs, although the set me up ones where Djo tried (in jest?) to get me wedded to a self accepted scum read heuristic that was malleable at his whim was a bit bloody. I cant blame a guy for trying on the just in case..? its like just say no to drugs, the rush would pander to my self esteem, then thered be the reality, it just doesnt make any sense + Show Spoiler [me and the mayor] + me and being mayor. I think I was fairly clear. I should [b]not[b] be mayor. Thats not personal desire it was an analysis. I believe I gave the reasoning. The reasoning is as true now as it was then. basically i am not imba enough to carry the responsibility and more importantly the accountability for being mayor. Accountability was the secret word Vivax missed. Scum I hope cant be sure how townie town thinks I am. Which is why I was so very very clear you give town read on me I lynch you(try anyways), unless i am a day vig.... in which case i just end you. Scum don't need or deserve more free information. I expect to be perceived as weak, being a 2 game noob who arsed up his first one, I even expect this very sentence I am saying is just seen as bravado. I have not counted much, but IIRC my scum reads have not been good, although in solo obs I felt like i was successful, but hey thats just me saying.... Lots of people think they have good reads when they look back at them. In one syllable words (just in case i wasnt clear yet,...) Me not big man. me no good for that. me do bad reads me then get dead for no good read. Not good, bad. me sad if you make me big man cos then me die by your hand then at Lynch. Lynch mayor is big bad waste of stuff. waste that is bad for town. And that is it. Mayor is an advantage to own in that its expensive for scum to take the mayor down. Electing me throws that away as I reckon i will then get lynched by town for being bad. Hell scum may not panic at keeping me until LyLo. i am sure they would be down for playing chicken with town over who kills th unproductive mayor that town elected. Town is bound to lynch me before scum bother killing me. it is a no win game. Id repeat that again for emphasis but... I suppose you had to know if my pregame patter was for realsies, yep I am wedded to it. Hell i am wedded to it every game until my D1 reads rock the house. [/QUOTE] ...ehh.....what? | ||
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gonzaw
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I figured out he might be a specific blue role (or scum counterpart) and is planning something regarding that, but I'm not too sure about that, and even if he was that role I don't know how it'd benefit him not running for mayor either way | ||
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gonzaw
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I could figure out he questioning Vivax on his campaign initially, and wanted to vote Chezinu, but I have no idea what "I sheep Toad, even if i needed to find all my own reasons" means I also kind of skimmed/ignored parts of his last post since I didn't understand a thing. Seemed pretty funny in pre-game...not so much now. | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 03:20 Stutters695 wrote: Short posts yes, but it was like two hours into the game. I dropped the questions on toad because he answered and the discussion in the thread cleared it up pretty well for me. I'm catching up on the thread now. Where's this "catching up" you were doing now Stutters, huh? The point is not you just "asking questions because it's 2 hours into the game". The point is you trying to blend in in the background with those questions. You appear so "soft" by asking "irrelevant questions" (although to be honest I don't remember them much they may be relevant), and just....disappear in the meantime. Now you "promised" (indirectly) to post your thoughts about what happened once you end up "catching up the thread" but it's been 2 hours since and nothing from you. | ||
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gonzaw
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If you say you were sleeping, then I guess that's null and there's nothing we can do about it, since it's most likely true regardless of your alignment. I'm not enjoying this "aggressiveness" you are showing Vivax, seems too needlessly provocative. Although you running for mayor in the first place (while being considered "not-vet" by most of us) doesn't really seem like something you'd do as scum, and maybe this "aggressiveness" stuff just means you are getting over-excited or something. Meh, certainly not enough to make any call other than leaning slightly town on you (gut feeling) so I'll let that pass. I do have to say that I agree with austin that JieXian's 1st post wasn't as "scummy" as many people (you+sandro) pointed out, it's null at worst. I think the 1st posts from many other people would be "far" more scummy (in relation, not objectively at least), like our guy Stutters' up there, and maybe other's like FiveTouch, or maybe even debears. Why did you give Jiexian so much flak Vivax? Why did you instantly want to lynch him instead of other's (based on their 1st post as well)? Speaking of those, 5's first post is somewhat suspicious: On January 20 2013 21:36 FiveTouch wrote: This is an extremely odd defence of JieXian. Why are you making it? ##Vote: austinmcc First statement in the whole game and it's just to cast doubt on someone random from the thread. Of course not mentioning the unfounded vote on austin...which to be honest is more of a null tell than scum tell since I can't really see much benefit to do so as scum, other than the usual "create chaos/wifom" strategy. He doesn't come in to post his thoughts on any current discussion, nor to be part of any discussion/etc. That's what townies usually do, to try to establish a nice town atmosphere, get info, and establish their innocence. Reminds me of JingleHell's first posts in Aperture Mafia 2 (where he was scum and i called him out for basically the same thing). There's not much about debears other than a "derp" start, so let's just wait and see what he does when he comes back. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 20 2013 18:32 sandroba wrote: What questions are those? About not wanting to run? I don't have a satisfatory answer, I simply decided this pre game and has nothing to do with alignment. Well.........*sigh* I kind of feel this is "obvious scum sandroba", but obviously until he actually has the time to do something useful to town we can't do much about it :/ What kind of makes me "mad" about the "obvious scum vets" in games, is how people always let them be. Like, this happened with scum Foolishness in like 2 consecutive games where he lived until D5 or something. Either people ignore them, or say "meh, he could be town and thus could be an asset". These kind of people are so "obvious" scum (in a matter of speaking of course) when they roll scum and nobody does anything about it :/ I'd said sandro is one of those (maybe Palmar as well, although slightly less), based on the games I've obsed with him being scum (and Liar Game of course, where he lived...wait for it...until D5). I get the "if he's actually town he can be an asset" idea many people have.....but if he's just screaming scum at your face you can't try bullshitting your way out of that. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 05:38 Toadesstern wrote: So far gonzaw is the only one of the people running who is willing to post a decent amount, which doesn't meant crap because he's very much like I am when playing mafia... Though what he's posting isn't necessarily bad. You mean I always get caught as scum on D1? (that's actually not a joke, I always get caught as scum on D1 just look at my last 2 scum games lol) | ||
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gonzaw
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This applies to Clarity, JieXian and others who put "##Vote: xxx" in here. Is it that hard to find the Voting thread in the main page? | ||
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gonzaw
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.....maybe I'm doing that intentionally as scum! :O :O >_> | ||
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gonzaw
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When I play the game I don't "think consolidately". I find a bunch of stuff and have a bunch of thoughts, which can't really be "consolidated" into a nice single perfect post. I'm going to my aunts house in like 1 hour anyway so I'll let you guys breathe for a moment | ||
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gonzaw
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Never really understood the "mayor candidacy" protocols here at LI :/ | ||
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gonzaw
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I'll get around to posting in a moment after I get some shit done. | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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I didn't understand him going against Oatmaster out of nowhere because of the "he defended Jiexian" thing, which doesn't make much sense to me, as it is not alignment-indicative. I do have to agree with the things said about Oatmaster though (other than that). On January 20 2013 18:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Hey,Toad why are you so concerned about voting a vet as Mayor? Can you read all the vets in this game? Also, you havent said anything about Sandro's reluctance to run and I think that since you are a 'vet' you should know him better than 80% of the people in the game. Hey Guys, Im not running for mayor cause Im not retarded and it makes me feel sad when I dont get votes. So I wont. Any Questions? On January 21 2013 08:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Your some random smurf, regardless, what sandro said was that he would be gone for 15 hours. So you need to fucking read the thread. Vivax I want to communicate that I am a good candidate for mayor too. How good do you think your reads are? Isnt it a benefit for mafia if we ended up voting for you and you keep mislynching? Is anyone else that is running that you think is town and has better reads than you? Every post of his has this "I don't give a fuck" attitude. He shows unnecessary aggression at anything at all, from random people posting to people accusing him, to even abstract concepts like a mayor election itself. Examples of that are the bolded bits for instance. That kind of aggression comes out of nowhere and is completely unnecessary, and it serves no purpose other than showing everybody you are the "boss" or something. I can't really see town motivation behind that. I wouldn't mind lynching him, as I wouldn't mind lynching Stutters. Stutters hasn't shown up yet, specially with his "catching up" post; which doesn't make things any easier. I'm still having trouble reading sandro, now that he came back he seems way too lazy, even for a scum sandro (as I remember from Liar Game). | ||
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gonzaw
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It seems like his normal play, and I don't think there's much to go on to be sure he's scum this game. He's not the paragon of townieness but I don't remember him being so in any town game from his (granted I only obsed games he played, I don't remember playing with him I think). There are better candidates out there. To be honest I wouldn't mind lynching Clarity either, dude has been passive as fuck every post of his, and just straight up disappeared. I take it he wouldn't just completely go AFK as scum after posting "I'll promise you reads", and he has to vote so he has to come back and post something. I suggest we pay attention to when he does. I am still running for mayor. I take it being sheriff wouldn't be bad, I'd still get protection so I can fuck with scum for more time and I trust myself with a JK; but I prefer to trust my judgement this D1 and lynch who I think is likelier to be scum. If I can't be mayor...hmm, I'll have to think about it. I think I'd prefer Toad, because I don't see him playing like TLI (was it?) at all and seems the most likely one to be town. Plus he's making sense and active and that shit. Fivetouch is making sense, but I'm not sure I trust him to be town yet. | ||
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gonzaw
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At worst let him be for a few days, if he's scum he'll surely "break" and go lurking or something. Don't really know what to think of debears/grush; they are not making much sense and are kind of "trolling" with their votes and some of their reads, but that's too null to blindly lynch on D1. | ||
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gonzaw
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Also, do you think Clarity has more chances of flipping scum than Oats or Stutters or maybe even sandro, etc? | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 13:57 Mocsta wrote: Awesome next time i roll scum. I can troll and post fluff. Knowing im safe to day2 guaranteed. Cheers... The problem is that this is a mayor lynch, not a normal lynch. If you do that on a normal game you wouldn't survive at all because everybody would be on your back and vote for you. Here only 1 guy decides the lynch, and to him alone it is just based on his judgement alone, even if other people agree with him or not. That "trolly" behaviour alone may or may not be enough for a sole guy to lynch you. It certainly is not for me, at least regarding debears and grush which I remember kind of play like this in some games (don't really remember much though). I think the way to handle "lurkers" and "trollers" is obviously different this D1 than a normal D1. | ||
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gonzaw
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Oh well nevermind. Speaking of which Mocsta, what do you think of Stutters and Clarity? I don't remember you mentioning them in your filter. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 14:05 Toadesstern wrote: gonzaw would you be supporting five + vivax as a mayor + sheriff team? I really consider it very unlikely to have enough people willing to give me DT-protection (not that I need it but that's what people are afraid of) to make it myself. It might be an incredibly good idea to make me sheriff though... You're not a stupid boy, you know what's going on, right? :p Why did you think Vivax should be mayor/sheriff again? Just because he's likely town? Like I said I'm not that sure of Five being town yet, don't really want to blindly say "yeah dude be mayor and have this dt protection and BGs" yet. If it comes down to it though, I wouldn't complain. If vivax or five are scum it'd be quite a bummer, but right now it seems like it's not the case, and not letting scum get those positions of power is good as well. ...also damn toad you are paranoid as fuck lol. I don't remember a single person in this game saying they aren't willing to give you DT-protection >_> You also know I don't need a DT check to catch you as scum, so don't worry about that | ||
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gonzaw
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Although if Five should be mayor, I don't mind his lynch candidates at all, at least Oats ahead of prplhz. Don't remember what other's he mentioned though | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 14:19 Toadesstern wrote: Reasoning for vivax comes down to this: That is reasoning for why someone like vivax, not why vivax in particular of course. That seems to make sense in paper. One thing I can think of against it is: It seems kind of hard to plan. The sherif is the guy with the 2nd highest amount of votes. This means that people have to singly vote for that guy, while other people singly vote for the mayor. Unless everybody thinks exactly like you do, you can't rally half+1 of people to vote someone and half-1 people to vote Vivax (or some other guy). Other than that, I think I'd have to think a little bit more about it. I prefer my judgement over Five's for being mayor, and of course having +2 votes each day. I don't know how he'll be using those votes later I didn't really think about the sheriff role, other than if I don't get mayor, well being sheriff wouldn't be bad, I would still get protection (1 or 2 BGs though? I didn't fully understand that part of the OP). Don't really know what it means to others having the sheriff role on purpose (rather than being just failed mayor candidates ).I also think the choice of people could be better. Vivax seems to be likely town, but: -I am not 100% sure of that -Even if he is, I don't know if him being sheriff would benefit town. -Of course, based on those above, I'm not 100% him being sheriff would benefit the town. Of course the same with the mayor choice. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 14:26 Mocsta wrote: @gonsaw toad gave reasons for vivax being town. I thought they were subjectve as fuck. From memory the stand out reasoning was howw he could post his campaign and be active in qt if scum there is no fcuking way vivax typed that first post afyer the game started.. It was premade and in no way is indicative of alignment. If toads disagrees wit this then his reads overall should be put into question. Btw with a premade case...it might make sense to take a breather if u rolled scum and needed to plan. But.. Why listen to me. Im not a vet and so to toad my opinion doesnt matter Well, I had my "campaign" post premade as well + Show Spoiler + Well, actually I had another one premade, but before the game started I lost it so I had to make it again when the game started I didn't mention anything about trying to become mayor (and that I had a campaign already made) in pre-game, you know....in case I got scum and wouldn't run for mayor I have a feeling Vivax may have done something similar. There's this gut feeling that tells me scum Vivax wouldn't instantly post that campaign post as soon as the game started if he saw his "You are scum!" Pm in his inbox, and maybe likely wouldn't even post it at all (and just trash it). It's speculation based on what I would think scum Vivax would do, which may not be much but it doesn't mean what Toad said is "completely bullshit". | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 14:31 AxleGreaser wrote: Quote i really just dont do defending people. So consider this pressure Ok... Exactly how lackadaisical are you in who you Lynch? Have you really read Oats meta... Bite back is what he does I am happy you wouldn't mind lynching him I am sure several people would also not mind, but do you think he is scum? You may not see town motivation... have you yet allowed for how he actually plays. I see grains of truth in what you say... "to even abstract concepts like a mayor election itself.", Id have to check but Oats aggression is to my mind usually people focused and conflict motivated. are you not oversaucing the pudding(exaggerating) things a bit? Oookay, I'll try to see if I get what you mean and answer. I don't think I'd need to see Oat's meta (other than some tiny bits of what people said previously) to analyze his behavior this game. If you think he's meta means what we are saying about him is wrong, then feel free to state why. "Bite back is what he does". Yes, maybe that's true, but that's not the point I made. The point I made was how unnecessary and "out of the blue" his attitude was. You can "bite back" without swearing against mayor candidates and shit every chance you get. For that to happen, you either need to have a rough night, or like be frustrated at something in the game. Those things didn't happen. Also it's not just that "gut feeling" regarding his attitude, but yeah, he hasn't done much shit since. I agree with some that said he was "asking pointless questions" and the like. I've seen several scum just randomly "pressuring" people here and there just to try and look active. The point is that there should be a consistency in how they "pressure". I.e that "pressure" should be used to try and find scum and kill scum. It doesn't feel like Oat's posts have that "consistency", just as with other scum in other games. On Sandroba I dont like Lazy.... yeah thats bias.... hmmm but i dont like it. Ok lazy leads to unreadable I dont like constructively unreadable it looks scummy motivated to me. (why because doubt leads to living esp for some players who then use that to reach D2 where uncontested due to the nks they get more and more sway.) Is that addressed to me or sandro? | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 14:40 Mocsta wrote: Regardless.. to use that as a heuristic I think is weak (i.e. posting a [pre-made]campaign is indicative of town play) Now you are using meta to make your judgement. I obviously don't share that experience with you. From my perspective its an informal fallacy. Im not saying Vivax is scum; Im saying Toads rational for declaring him openly town to me is weak at best, and contradictory at worst How am I using meta? Well, rather than meta I'm using reputation and experience. It doesn't feel like something a scum Vivax would do, mostly because his name is "Vivax" and not "Palmar" or "wherebugsgo", or even "Risen" or "kush", etc (you get what I mean). So Mocsta, you think these "heuristics" used to see if Vivax is town are useless? How do you plan on reading Vivax? If you "read" him as scum (like yamato does) because of Vivax doing some "bad" plays or something, how do you know he can't do the same as town? Are you opposing this just so Vivax doesn't get the sheriff role, or just because people seem to think Vivax is town and you don't want them to (that easily)? I like to use that kind of heuristics with those types of players, because they are usually right. Of course if you put a wbg or Radfield in front of me they are kind of meaningless (as I painfully learned in the past ) | ||
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gonzaw
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I remember you saying you'd need him to post more and appear and stuff. Well I doubt sandro will do much more than what he did already this day, so what do you make of it? The only game I think I remember him not doing "that much" as town or being lazy was Bureaucracy (I think he was there, was he?), although not this extreme. I'm wary of him being scum though, because it doesn't feel like his Liar Game play, although if I suspect he is what he is, then that's irrelevant and null. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 11:18 BroodKingEXE wrote: Um, /confirm. Sorry I was out of the house yesterday, reading up. If you can post your thoughts at anytime BKE it'd be nice. What the hell is up with all these people promising reads/posts and going AFK? :/ | ||
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gonzaw
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Just to make it known my candidacy is still standing. We still have time until the deadline, but I'm not really fond of so many people not having voted yet. It increases the chances of a last-minute mayor choice, which could be anyone, even someone like Chezinu depending on the circumstances. | ||
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gonzaw
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austin seems likely town as well, and posts his thought process and explanations, and he'd be a good player to have protection from BGs as well, wouldn't mind him being sheriff either. Wouldn't mind Toad being sheriff either, but yeah those successive votes on him seem weird. I'm surprised Clarity hasn't shown up at all. Must be an IRL issue I take it, he wouldn't lurk this bad even as scum. If Fivetouch is to be mayor, I'd like him to tell us exactly what makes prplhz more likely to be scum than Oats. Some of the reasoning behind his prplhz case seems like grasping at straws. The "he was against policy lynches before and now he wanted to 'policy lynch' chezinu" is not alignment indicative in my mind, few townies have the same exact thoughts in every game. I know I changed my mind about lots of things in different games, and I wouldn't expect that to be used either for or against me. Although it's true prplhz hasn't done much though. I don't know why he wants to vote me since the game started, but hasn't even voted me nor really shown. prplhz hasn't done much in contributing and seemed to be defending himself more, but for me his lynch right now is like a shot in the dark mostly because of that. I can see him flipping town, if he has to spend time defending himself instead of contributing. Oats has posted more than him, and has contributed less in my mind. His attitude does not show a town mentality. He spends most of his time discrediting people in a needless aggressive way. He also OMGUSed me back there for like no reason at all, I'll have to check that again. I'd be happy with Five being mayor if he lynched Oats (likely what I'd do if I was mayor), and of course spends the rest of the game leading town, posting his thought process, being open/transparent, etc. I'll have to check again some of the stuff said about Stutters, but he can easily be scum as well. Dunno if I'd lynch him before Oats though, but if both are scum it doesn't really matter, but I'm leaning on lynching Oats this D1. I'll respond to questions I've skimmed later. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote: @ gonzaw There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer. I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me. Care to point out the ones I haven't indirectly responded yet? (like the "oh who would you lynch bla bla bal?" ones). On January 21 2013 17:24 Mocsta wrote: Gonzaw Im very close to handing you my vote for Mayor. Overall I like the vibe I get when reading your filter. I think your approach has been reasonable, I don't agree with everything but that is also to be expected. Before I hand over my vote, I would like to know "Out of the current candidates with a fighting chance, who would be your choice for Sheriff?" (& why) austin and Toad, and me obviously. Like some have said, the sheriff role seems perfect for people we want to protect and are likely town and scum would want to kill them (at least after I read that when skimming the thread )I'm feeling confident in Toad being town, and austin seems likely town as well. The way they drive discussion and post their suspicions is "good for town" as well, in the sense that it creates a good town atmosphere and the like and all that shit (in contrast with what Vivax is doing for instance). I prefer having that kind of play around and not being able to be killed by scum, because that's the kind of play scum usually want to kill early (I doubt scum will kill Vivax soon, even if he's town). I guess I wouldn't mind maybe wbg in that position, seems active in discussions and driving town forward, but I'm not confident in reading him correctly right now, although leaning town. On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok After reading what I think are the major candidates filter, Im ignoring campaign posts cause pregame writeups and stuff are non alignment indicative Gonzaw: Posts irrelevent stuff about coming back to the thread I dont see the point as town, as scum, you look like you are gonna do stuff but if no one calls you out for it, easy stuff to do. And this, as far as I can remember, nothing changed between and I would say trolling with your votes and reads is a scum read because it shows that you dont really care about who gets voted and you dont really care about who is scum, but apparently Gonzaw doesnt think so I dont think that Gonzaw is scum necessarily but I wouldnt want him as my mayor Day 1 Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. And Chezinu, Ok I have never played with him before and only know him by reputation and not much at that. He needs to make some sense, all his posts have been 1 liners and flighty comments about how his playstyle will change if he is mayor, non alignment indicative. I, however, think that if Chezinu is scum, he would put more effort into campaigning because it seems like he is getting some support but not capitalizing on it Are you serious Oats? You cast doubt on me, only to conclude with "yeah so, like I've posted lots of things that make me suspicious of gonzaw, but I don't think he's scum!". Why the hell would you do that other than just needlessly discrediting me, and also a blatant OMGUS? I dont see the point as town, as scum, you look like you are gonna do stuff but if no one calls you out for it, easy stuff to do. I'm just being transparent that's all. This thread seems to be moving fast, so by the time I start reading it to the time I have something to post it can pass 1 hour or so. It also indicates that I'm here reading if someone wants to ask me a question or if something happens I can provide a little snip about. I would say trolling with your votes and reads is a scum read because it shows that you dont really care about who gets voted and you dont really care about who is scum, but apparently Gonzaw doesnt think so Dunno what that has to do with me "leaning red". Yes, trolling indicates that you don't give much of a shit about the game, but in the case of some players that's not necessarily a scum treat, since those guys seem to play like that as town as well for shits and giggles or something. But what does this have to do with anything? You start seemingly accusing me of being scum because of me pointing out I'm reading shit, then you come up with this stuff that's unrelated to my alignment, and then you say you don't even think I'm scum, even though that seems like what the purpose of your post was. You OMGUS me, then you retract it....for what purpose? I don't see town motivation behind that either | ||
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gonzaw
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I'm unsure about mokuba. His posts seem like the quintessential noob post, with just mildly talking about stuff, not being engaged in anything or taking any strong stance, and heavily use of smileys. But meh...I'm not sure. His posts don't scream scum nor town, he's just blending in like a newbie (town or scum). | ||
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gonzaw
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wbg, sandro, you there? Also, Five is Palmar? My gut kind of tells me he isn't, he's not in your face enough. Seems more likely to be syllo to me...or maybe it's Fourface trying to fool us all | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 22 2013 05:39 DearestSnot wrote: Your opinions aren't much more than direct readings from the players' posts, so I don't understand what kind of response you expect. Or, they're talk about how you need to reread their posts. Dunno, I expected anything basically, maybe not even related to what I posted but in response to somebody else, etc. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 22 2013 07:04 Toadesstern wrote: gonzaw vote me now :p I'll see if I get some votes first. I prefer you over austin though, so if it comes down to it I'll change my vote to you. Skimmed JieXian's filter but didn't find anything. He participates in discussions and the like, don't really see him as scum now. I don't know wtf Vivax is on, try to keep a cool head dude, and analyze behaviours and contributions, not petty shit like someone saying you were in the US and then saying you weren't; and stop overreacting if you are town. I'm going to see a movie now, will still skim the thread. | ||
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gonzaw
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I had thought that sandro was the actual mason, with him being that "lazy" and all. I guess I was not that far off Seems some guys ninja-voted me huh? I can't say that doesn't feel "nice", but it seemed to come out of nowhere (without neither posting in thread and all). Axle, are you there? What made you insta-vote me now and not keep your vote on Chezinu? | ||
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gonzaw
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Can we get an updated votecount? I think Toad is now in the lead as sheriff, but I think some votes (like Axle's) weren't formated correctly so maybe they don't count. | ||
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gonzaw
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Okay, does someone feel like me or austin should be sheriff? The voting is pretty close and there is little time left. If someone is willing to vote me for sheriff I'll keep my vote, if not I'll vote Toad just in case (or maybe just leave it like it is since he's in the lead) | ||
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gonzaw
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If right now you had to choose between me+austin+Toad+chezinu for sheriff, who would it be? Dunno if you should vote since your vote would be "fucked up" since you didn't read, but at least post quick thoughts about it | ||
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gonzaw
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Well Five, I can't say I agree with the lynch, but meh it's better than others. I'd say we lynch Oats tomorrow then. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 22 2013 10:01 Vivax wrote: GET TOAD ELECTED FFS Deadline is already over, and Toad got 4 votes before I did, so he's still getting elected. | ||
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gonzaw
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If he has more than a few minutes he can still discuss it here I take it | ||
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gonzaw
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Other than just trying to fuck with us like you always do, why do that? Also why me and not austin for instance? | ||
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gonzaw
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I stand corrected. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 22 2013 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok well Im thinking that at least one of the 4 mayor candidates yesterday is scum. And I think that the scum is Gonzaw. Then never mentions Axle again. That's, first of all, a lie, since I do remember asking Axle some questions and even responding to him. Second of all, I didn't feel the need to address him that much last day, with the way he played I felt I should put my focus on other players, specially since it seemed he was being somewhat active in the thread and discussions (even if I couldn't fully understand what he's saying at times). Third, how does that make me scum? You can't be doing a PBPA just mentioning stuff about someone's play and somehow say that means he's scum. That's easy, that's lazy, and that's what scum do. This reads as, Scummy, not scummy, meh I dont know. And then again, never questions Vivax at all. No, it reads as, Strange/weird, slightly scummy, has some other townie aspects in his play though that make me have a town gut feeling on him though. You better actually read my filter though. "Never questions Vivax at all"....? How is this either true, or relevant? I mentioned later Vivax's "all or nothing" play seemed more likely to be town, so it was better to just ignore all the shit he was saying and tell him to stop it. Mentions Sandro and that he might be scum and AGAIN doesnt pressure him or nothing, not like you would do with your scum reads. ....did you actually read my filter? I'll assume you didn't and wait until you do. Random post that doesnt help anyone and is fluff but he phrases it like it is alignment indicative whether people vote in the Voting thread. Throwing suspicion subtly. No, it's not alignment-indicative, but it is stupidity-indicative. It was just a passing comment about people seemingly forgetting how to play the game correctly, I didn't attribute anything alignment-related to that. Again I fail to see how this makes me scum. Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch. How does that make sense in a mayor election D1? :/ At that time there wasn't many mentions of those guys so I wanted some more feedback on them. Of course the both get better reads on them (if someone else finds something about their play for instance), and to get some discussion going. Like, imagine I am scum for a moment, would I be so blunt as to just ask people about those guys to decide to "push" them and lynch those 2 like that out of nowhere? Doesnt post about what the prp flip means to the reads that he has on the mayor and the people who pushed his lynch. Also, seems weird for a townie post. Therefore, out of the runners, I think that GONZAW is scum. After the flip I felt a little relieved so decided to leave the thread to keep watching that movie I was watching, and then go to sleep. Didn't have any "sudden change of mind" that I'd feel I'd post. My read on Five wouldn't change much, other than yeah after successful D1 lynch he obviously is pretty much town, but assuming he's syllo his play after mid-D1 made that kind of apparent anyway, so it's not like I'd change my read of the mayor. This feels like a seriously lazy PBPA. He just randomly points out posts from my filter out of context and says "yeah this means he's scum" without any decent reasoning. I could see maybe someone paranoid about the other candidates just straight up say "well, one of the mayor candidates must be scum...wait what if it's gonzaw? OMG I SOLVED THE GAME!" and get a little overexcited....but surely he wouldn't make a case this bad would he? He wouldn't make a case this bad and just...leave it there. I dunno why some of you guys think this case makes him townie because he "didn't go against annul or Chezinu". First of all there's a chance he has a scumbuddy in that group, and he could have thought this was a safer way for him to "focus his activity". Second, we are also forgetting about other "mayor candidates". If you count annul as a "serious mayor candidate", then you should count Clarity as well, and maybe Djoref, yamato, etc. He did seem to "improve" his play recently, at least he's not screaming and swearing at everything every time; but it's not like I wouldn't expect such a slight change of play from scum that nearly got lynched D1. I think it's likely there were 2 scum on the chopping block on D1, and scum couldn't do anything about it. I'd expect the scum team to be relatively inactive or without participation last day, which basically exonerates Vivax/yamato/austin/Toad/etc from my eyes. I still support an Oats lynch D2, but I guess I wouldn't mind an annul or stutters lynch. Right now I just woke up so I haven't reread those too thoroughly yet, but gut tells me they are both likely scum anyways. Stutters didn't have any involvement in the thread at all, and I don't remember him posting anything after being "called out" by me/austin. annul just doesn't seem to be giving a shit for being considered a "vet". If I had to take a guess at a scum team right now it'd be Oats+annul+Stutters+some inactive, like grush/BKE or maybe Clarity. There's still the chance I'm wrong about some of them though, most likely, but if you put a gun against my head I'd kill those right now. | ||
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gonzaw
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I skimmed it when he first posted it and it didn't convince me then either. I guess the most "damning" thing in the case is Jiexian asking random questions, but some stuff about "following up the questions", or the first stuff about him "agreeing" with me, seems like nitpicking. I don't really think JX should be a D2 lynch candidate. On January 23 2013 02:32 JieXian wrote: gonzaw : Started out good but ended up babbling to himself and giving empty promises. Don't trust him with reads and may be scum What do you mean by this Jiexian? I don't remember giving any empty promises. | ||
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Even though I'm not comfortable with him being this lazy, something tells me he'd try and be more active as scum, at least slightly. Like, Toad instantly masons him as soon as D1 starts, and they start chatting. This already gives Toad some "activity" from sandro, but sandro doesn't feel the need to "channel" that activity in the thread? I'd think scum sandro, when finding (likely town) Toad mason contacted him, and they started talking, he'd try to mirror that activity in the thread. Also, as I suspected pretty early, sandro being mason with someone would explain some lack of effort from him, since some of that effort would be spent in the mason chat (don't really know how much time you guys chatted though). | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 03:47 DearestSnot wrote: I don't understand the scum Oats motivation for pushing you, gonzaw. It seems almost suicidal to me. In another game I had recently I was inclined to vote someone for calling me scum in a situation where he was under heby pressure. My gut said that he was town based on the unlikelihood of him being willing to call me out so hard when I was the deciding vote. I decided to stubbornly ignore my suspicion and the guy flipped town. I just don't see what kind of scum would come to the conclusion that one of the mayoral candidates is scum and then proceed to attack the one who is most likely to put forth a strong backlash with a serious and solid response. But it doesn't make sense from a town perspective to be honest. Like....he instantly OMGUSes me back on D1, seemingly accusing me of being scum, but backtracks it for some reason (saying "This doesn't mean I think he's scum"). That felt out of the ordinary almost instantly, and didn't seem like a townie would post that at all. Now it seems to me he wanted to stay "consistent" with that. Since he already posted "some" suspicion on me, I would think it wouldn't be that "hard" for him to just keep up with it to the "extreme". Also I've had my fair share of scum just blatantly OMGUSing me and FoSing me for no reason in like, every single game I'm town I think you guys are attributing a little too much meaning to something that maybe doesn't matter at all. | ||
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gonzaw
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I just don't see what kind of scum would come to the conclusion that one of the mayoral candidates is scum Well, if ALL the mayoral candidates are town, then this feels exactly like a "cornered scum" would do. I mean, if ALL of me+Toad+austin+Chez+Five are town, then it'd make sense for scum to make townies suspicious of the mayoral candidates. If he attacks me, he is still implicitly saying "There IS a scum in the mayoral candidates"; which even if he somehow manages to misslynch me or I die at some point or anything happens, it still means that he'll likely pursue that previous idea as well, maybe targeting Chez or austin later. It may be a stretch, and assuming all mayor candidates being town is dangerous, but I certainly see it as a possibility | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 03:56 Toadesstern wrote: well yeah, maybe. Thing is we need one guy lynched tomorrow. I see no reason to lynch into those guys that have those kind of things that might or might not be worth something as a towntell. Doesn't have to be towntell, but why not just lynch the guy that doesn't have those aspects in the first place. Well, I prefer lynching scum over "some guys" But yeah, we obviously still have time, and night actions tonight can change a few things. But I don't want people assuming Oats is town for some weak reasons. Like if I die or even if scum go all in and Five gets killed, and Oats is scum, then you+wbg would basically just let him live all game long lynching into lurkers. Oh, I almost forgot about the double-lynch I guess it makes sense to have a double-lynch on D3. I have a feeling we'll waste some of it on "lurkers", but we could count it as a "town-powered vig shot", in addition to the regular lynch that day | ||
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gonzaw
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Did he even post this N1? | ||
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gonzaw
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Disregard the "he's attacking a strong player that can backlash!" comment and focus on his actual points and what he is saying. | ||
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gonzaw
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If he is mad props to him for completely changing his posting style, but he seriously is like 99% syllo in my mind Just look at the way he approaches his suspicions and discusses them, and how he takes "leadership" of town. He's syllo, end of the argument. | ||
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gonzaw
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Masoning a townie and telling him is a better option I think. It gives scum a lot of info for like the 0.001% chance they'll go all in and kill both Toad/Five and somehow get away with it. | ||
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gonzaw
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It's like he thinks Oats is more likely town than Toad/sandro/me/maybe even you Five | ||
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gonzaw
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Like, it even happened with me. When you made your first post you were just some "noob" or "unknown guy" trying to appear like you were contributing and the like, you weren't "Palmar's/syllo's smurf leading town to victory" by then. I could see Oats changing his mind about you in that frame of time if he's town (as well as if he's scum like you said), so maybe that's what sandro/wbg/toad are arguing about. I think it'd be better to just stop that argument of "he changed his mind about Five!", and focus on other damning things about his play, like him being super angry for no reason and making a shitty OMGUS on me following with a bad case | ||
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gonzaw
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Of course what I mean is I want wbg and the like to address those points as well. | ||
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gonzaw
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You can't just call someone 90-95% town (or 95% confident he's town) out of nowhere and not expect us to think he's one of your "strongest" reads, at least based on "weak" reasoning. | ||
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gonzaw
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What do you think of his actual "case" against me? Without taking into account WIFOM as "he wouldn't go against a strong mayor candidate!" and the like | ||
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gonzaw
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But well, guess there's no point in beating this bush if we'll be arguing all night about it. I'm not that confident in lynching BKE just yet. It sucks that he completely missed D1, but we need to give him a chance to do something. It's kind of bad how he hasn't tried to use this N1 to make up for lost time on D1 though, I don't even remember him posting. | ||
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Wtf? Is this even real? | ||
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On January 23 2013 06:45 annul wrote: "OH YAY WE GOT A RED YAY" is a nothing post, and more often than not is a sign of someone being red It's not about a "Yeah guys nice work!" post, it's about attitude. Right now you seemed pissed off, you came into the thread pissed off against Vivax and yamato and being all aggressive as shit. How the fuck am I supposed to believe you'd have that attitude after a pretty good game so far for town? What possible town motivation is there for you to come in starting shitting on everything? | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 06:45 DearestSnot wrote: you've played with annul before, right? I know he's not stupid, but his play right now is so bad he pretty much has to be scum. You agree? I never played with annul before, but this is just so obviously stupid/bad/etc. It only reminds me of all those other "scum vets" I've played with in Bureaucracy and Liar Game: -Ignore everything -Shit on everything -Be pessimist about everything, even if town lynched 10 scum in succession -Keep shitting on everything This is almost exactly what half the scum team played in Bureaucracy. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 06:48 annul wrote: i am aggressive when people break the rules and attack me, personally, in a way entirely unrelated to the game, instead of my arguments. "asshat" "child" these things have no place in mafia. Oh right, like these posts, ones that happened before people called you "asshat" or "child" are not aggressive and "pessimist" either: On January 23 2013 05:58 annul wrote: you realize i attacked vivax first right lol in fact i have your filter up and the first vivax attack you make is like 12 hours after i make mine. if anything, you deserve inspection for blatant lies to the game On January 23 2013 06:00 annul wrote: i find it interesting though because i am still on vivax, and you seemed to be pretty harshly on him (in fact, blatantly calling him scum... not "i suspect" or "i have reads" but you were SURE of it) and now you want to go after the one who called him out first before you? 1. why? 2. what made you stop thinking its vivax? On January 23 2013 06:02 annul wrote: i also think its funny how toad is SHERIFF (aka cant be DT'd) and he and vivax i suspected the most. now toad wants me dead too. hmmmm. also, mafias get "some number" of masons in addition to any other roles they have. his mason post means absolutely nothing. also, we have absolutely no way to confirm that those are real logs, or that they haven't been doctored in any way, etc. its funny cuz toad uses his mason as "town cred" and he is sheriff which cannot be DT'd... and mafia can mason day 1 all the same... | ||
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gonzaw
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But don't get complacent just because we lynched scum on D1. | ||
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gonzaw
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Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? | ||
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gonzaw
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Derp debears already asked that question. Dunno what to think about the BGs. I'd take a guess and say that at least one of those is town, since I doubt scum would have the balls to make 2 scum BGs. I'd say debears is the townie and Oats is the scum. Although meh this works anyway. If Oats/debears is town, then scum have to kill them/him to kill Five/Toad, so maybe they'd even do us a favor killing the townie out of them. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 10:38 DearestSnot wrote: you saw JieXian and Djodref being shot by scum? wtf? I always see scum doing weird shit with night kills. Every time you expect some guys to be killed they killed others, etc. I didn't really think Jiexian or Djoref were scum, so I'm not surprised they were offed. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 10:42 DearestSnot wrote: why is gonzaw asking dumb questions? He just asked that question which is easily answered by reading the OP. In fact, it doesn't even have anything to do with...anything. Dunno what question is that? The BG ones? Just wanted to make sure, but yeah I haven't read the OP in a while lol. Also, he says he didn't expect sandro to be shot, but he expected the others to be shot, UNLESS they were vigi shots???? There's a slight chance one of those was a vig shot. If they weren't vig shots, then yeah. Also it's not like "I expected them to be shot", but rather than they weren't surprising. I may have used the wrong choice of words there. No, I'm assuming one of them is surely TOWN. It's more speculation than assumption though. Ignore it if you want. you act as if they could not have been vig shots. You realize that was a minimum of 3 KP, right? Either they used a jack shot or a vig shot one of those players. How are you so sure scum shot both JieXian and Djo? Christ dude, I saw all the KP and assumed they were all scum shots, at least until proven otherwise by a vig claim, etc. It was also a passing comment. *sigh* me and my big mouth. | ||
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gonzaw
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I am not sure why I'm suddenly discussed as D2 lynch today for no reason (what I managed to skim), but I won't be lynched today if town doesn't derp. | ||
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gonzaw
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On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote: Gonzaw, Not following up on questions and scumreads makes you scum because you just ask those questions for the sake of asking questions and not to find scum I asked those questions to get info from people, which they did (I think, I don't remember much), and to get a better read on Stutters/Clarity if people had anything valuable to add. Do you understand the meaning of questioning? It means to directly ask someone something. Mentioning that he is a townread without following up on your point seems scummy because it looks like you are just making conversation and following the flow of the thread. Why did you expect me to "question" Vivax? Why Vivax out of everybody? I don't see how this is relevant at all. Oatsmaster: Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch. Gonzaw: How does that make sense in a mayor election D1? :/ Because people will also vote for the mayor because they agree with the lynch that the mayor pushes, so if the thread generally thinks that stutters or clarity is scum, you can push their lynch as part of your campaign. It obviously doesn't work that way, if I was mayor I could lynch whoever the fuck I want, whether people "agree" with it or not. If I was just "testing the waters" to "gain support", then it doesn't work that way either. You don't elect a mayor just because he's pressuring someone you agree is pressuring. And whether this works this way or not, how do you suddenly conclude this is what I did as, in your mind, scum mayor? This is all confirmation bias from your part, "ah, if gonzaw was a scum mayor, then he could have been 'testing the waters' with what he was posting!". Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way. Wow, this misses the point so much it hurts. Oats, you out of nowhere said "There is mafia in the mayor candidates!", randomly chose me, and started using heavy confirmation bias. The "bad" thing is your case, I never called you bad. The point is that it's hard as shit for me to think you believe the shit you are saying. Your "case" on me comes out of nowhere, has basically no valid point at all, yet it's somehow enough for you to instantly believe I'm scum. There's no thought process of yours stating why you had this change of stance on me (i.e why you suddenly think I'm suspicious as fuck), and had basically no reasoning at all behind it. You just hopped on someone's ass to ride along and tunnel, without seemingly caring if he's actually scum or not. There was always the chance you were just "bad" with your initial case, but it doesn't seem to be the case since you are not following up on it at all, and are just using it as an excuse to jump on my ass, and apparently on the bandwagon that can be formed on me. Yeah, I can't see you doing that as town at all Oats. Specially not after the shit JingleHell pulled on me on Aperture 2; I won't fall for that again. As far as your "meta" goes, I don't really like looking at lots of past games unless I'm not actually sure about someone's else alignment; but briefly skimming what other's posted about your previous town/scum games is even more incriminating in my mind. ##Vote: OatsMaster Oat's attacks on me can't come from a townie, period. I'd prefer lynching him today, and maybe leaving annul for a vig. Hopefully there was a vig last night and he decided to hold his shot. If not we can kill him with the double-lynch tomorrow, which (in my mind) is there for that reason. Just in case some people still want to lynch me, I'll address the things said against me in a few minutes. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote: Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads? Haven't read the whole read to check what they are, and don't have much time right now. When I finish reading the thread and responding to people I'll check them out. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
[quote="Vivax"]two different styles of talking to his scumreads[/quote] I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now. Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
If he was scum, he'd try to get elected as scum mayor, specially since he did try to get elected at one point in time, based on his activity and how he was playing at the time Holy shit Vivax | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 23 2013 23:29 FiveTouch wrote: Anyway, gonzaw. His prplhz stuff looks bad, although to be fair he's not the only one. The problem with gonzaw is that he should really know better. What do you mean by "should know better"? prplhz obviously wasn't a "bad lynch" by D1 by any standards. I just felt it was mostly a shot in the dark, he could flip scum or town. Thus I didn't feel he would be a good lynch on D1 ahead of other people I felt WAY more confident on, like Oats, and some people that I was not that sure (because their lack of activity basically) but still felt more confident on, like Stutters, and maybe Clarity. There's one other post I've had written down since I read it in Day 1, I didn't like the bolded at all, casually suggesting he wouldn't have ran for mayor as mafia. I absolutely believe gonzaw would run for mayor as mafia, so this looks quite bad to me. Well, I don't really know how you would take that, but it's true. I didn't push a mayor candidacy on me on pre-game, and that obviously happened before I got my role PM. At the time I was thinking "I want to be mayor so bad....but if I flip scum I may regret going all in about a mayor candidacy on pre-game, it basically forces me to run for mayor as scum, no matter what" I dunno if I would have run as mayor as scum, maybe I would. It would heavily depend on what team I was in (for instance I dont' think I'd seriously run as mayor if my scumteam was you+wbg+sandro for instance). That could be WIFOM and I have no way of saying if I would or not....so yeah I don't think we should really dwell on that to be honest. On January 23 2013 12:09 DearestSnot wrote: I like gonzaw for a lynch actually. I feel like some of the things he has said are almost too dumb from a town gonzaw. In particular, his opposition to the prplhz lynch, while he somewhat supported Oats, and his opinions all game have been really neutral. I don't believe I've seen him taken a hard stance on really anything, and he is not really that proactive about his reads or his pushes. I always get the "gonzaw seems too dumb to be town" thing often, but I seriously can't see what I'm doing "dumb" this game (in contrast to, for instance, my derps in Can't Believe). I think you are rushing this too much. You don't even seem to believe I'm scum with this. I take it it's the whole night kill issue and my comments, which I can easily explain to avoid misunderstandings. If I seem "neutral" at times (which I don't really see, maybe with some players like annul/BKE/lurkers/etc last night), then...well I dunno. If I am indeed at points, it may be because this is a big game and it's harder for me to keep up than minis, and I prefer to "waste my time" being in the thread and seeing/being part of interactions/discussions. I'm too lazy at times to reread filters in big games and make "in-depth" analysis His mayoral campaign was what...he'd be transparent? Posting a lot is not the same as being transparent, particularly as I don't even remember what his lynch candidate was. My mayoral campaing was that I'd try to establish my innocent and hunt scum, like I do every time I'm town. Yes, I always try to be transparent when town as well. Don't know why you don't feel like I was, I think I was. My lynch candidate, or rather "who I wanted Five to lynch", was Oats on D1 basically. At that point I was still not 100% sure so I wouldn't have mind a lynch on Stutters, or maybe Clarity, at least at one point in time. After I basically knew I wasn't the mayor any more, I didn't try to desperately "find a lynch candidate now!", and instead try to find who I'd want Five to lynch, or ultimately (if something unexpected happened, like someone else becoming mayor, or maybe even me) who I'd be okay with the elected guy lynching. On January 23 2013 20:45 Toadesstern wrote: gonzaw looks / looked a townie so far and I really thought he'd die as a secondary target as you can see when you're reading the logs between Sandro and myself. And Sandro agreed so that's one of the reaons I'm talking about Gonzaw right now. Well I obviously didn't. Stop WIFOMing yourself like this Toad. After you started basically yelling at medics who to protect (me/austin/sandro/wbg), I had a feeling I wouldn't die at night, which is why I wasn't surprised about the night kills (again, except the sandro one, which did seem like scum took a risk at shooting). | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 23 2013 15:17 debears wrote: Ok. WBG I'll give you something to look at for Gonzaw. I htink the bottom stuff in red is the most pertaining to why I believe he is scum What is mafia trying to accomplish d1 with election 1) elect one of their own as mayor/sheriff 2) Trying to elect mayor who will get the first lynch wrong 3) Have someone on the correct mayor for town cred Gonzaw- - slight scum Up for election - didn't push it hard Didn't want to budge too fast on 5touch as mayor -----> didn't seem to care for trying to get mayor over 5 You might want to reread my mayor campaign. I wanted D1 to run "smoothly as normal", and if people thought I was a good mayor candidate by mid-late D1 then it'd be great if they voted me. I was also absent/sleeping for much part of Five "rising to power". When I woke up one day Five already had like 5-6 votes and I had none, I obviously wasn't becoming mayor by that point and he was. No comment on prplhz----> Don't agree with prplhz lynch Heavy pressure on sandro early Wanted to lynch stutters and Oats and Clarity -spread out btw those 4. Big discrepancy in treatment btw prplhz and sandro treatment for being inactive d1 Votes himself sandro is sandro. When town he does big plays as early as possible, he tries to "bully the setup", break the game, and have town win as early as possible. You can't obviously compare him with prplhz. Really wanted to convince 5touch to lynch Oats over prplhz when realized he won't be mayor Yes I did. I don't think it matters anyways, since I believe Oats to be scum. Lol this actually reminds me of Aperture Mafia 2. I was on scum's tail all D1 (JingleHell), but made some "wishy washy" comments about the current lynched scum (iamp). I got flak for it the whole game and basically forced me to claim, when I was right all along lol. Funny how it's likely to be happening this game as well http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17590733 Thought stutters was scum and should be lynched, yet needs to explain himself to stutters so in depth? With a tone of treating Oats as town? Look at post before "stutters should be lynched" http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599229 Does it again. Then names Oats first in the scum team Tries to convince Oats that Oats is scum. Not really trying to convince others and show scum motivation You don't seem to be familiar with my play. When I "try to convince my target he is scum", I'm obviously not doing that. What I'm doing is: -If somehow that guy is town, point out the scummy things he's doing, and how they come from a mafia perspective. If he's town, hopefully this will make him realize what he's doing and change his play accordingly, so he doesn't get misslynched -I want the guy to know why he's scummy, this way he has no way to hide. If he keeps acting like he is doing after I mention that, then it means he acknowledged what I said but didn't care about it. That is a strong indication of mafia for me (or at points, depending on his play, maybe a townie), depending on his reactions. -If the guy is scum, then it also kills 2 birds with 1 stone by showing other people why he's scum. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
It does seem "odd" that Toad just happened to not protect sandro and sandro died....but it doesn't mean much, it doesn't automatically make him scum like you are saying, specially since he told medics to protect sandro, which if he was scum he'd have thought they could have. I may need to reread Toad's filter, but from D1/N1 I had him as basically very likely town. Him flip-flopping on me based on WIFOM does remind me of when he was scum in MTG Mafia lol (when Nova wasn't killed by scum and he started WIFOMing all over the place). Hmm...interesting, hope you are not doing the same shit again Toad >_> On January 24 2013 04:54 FiveTouch wrote: gonzaw, you haven't been as much a central figure as I expected you to be this game. Is there a reason for this? Well, here's the thing: Mafia games take like 70% of my free time. I need to be constantly reading the thread, catching up with the thread, at times rereading filters, etc. I decided to do some other shit this weak, since I'm on holidays. So I spent some of my free time playing games, or reading, or playing guitar, etc. I also go to sleep late, and wake up late (like 3-4 pm in here). Most of that stuff takes time away from playing mafia, although not that much when I'm just skimming the thread. It's been some time since I played a "big game" as town (last one was Aperture 1 I believe, but it was like 1 year ago), maybe that has to do with it. Although honestly I wouldn't know, I guess it just happens. I take it by "you haven't been such a central figure" I assume you mean like when I am in mini's (can't believe, aperture 2, etc) right? Honestly I can't really say, except for the above which may have an impact. Also, I dunno why you'd ask me that if you expect me to be scum. You know I could "satisfy" that question as scum too. | ||
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gonzaw
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gonzaw
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What do you think of the "cases" against me from Oats/Five/wbg/debears? You thought I was pretty townie on D1 and posted a bunch of reasons, do the stuff those guys pointed out change your read or not? I may have skipped it in your filter but you barely mention me I believe | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
1)Yamato expressed he wanted to be elected at one point (if I remember correctly) 2)Yamato was very active the whole D1 3)However, he didn't really push his candidacy that much, nor seemingly decided to push the candidacy of another "scum mayor" (whoever that one is) 4)Basically, he stated he would have wanted to be mayor because he's townie bla bla bla, but didn't seem to have a hidden agenda about that, he spent most of his time being active and discussing stuff and shit | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 24 2013 07:05 debears wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 24 2013 04:51 gonzaw wrote: You might want to reread my mayor campaign. I wanted D1 to run "smoothly as normal", and if people thought I was a good mayor candidate by mid-late D1 then it'd be great if they voted me. I was also absent/sleeping for much part of Five "rising to power". When I woke up one day Five already had like 5-6 votes and I had none, I obviously wasn't becoming mayor by that point and he was. sandro is sandro. When town he does big plays as early as possible, he tries to "bully the setup", break the game, and have town win as early as possible. You can't obviously compare him with prplhz. Yes I did. I don't think it matters anyways, since I believe Oats to be scum. Lol this actually reminds me of Aperture Mafia 2. I was on scum's tail all D1 (JingleHell), but made some "wishy washy" comments about the current lynched scum (iamp). I got flak for it the whole game and basically forced me to claim, when I was right all along lol. Funny how it's likely to be happening this game as well You don't seem to be familiar with my play. When I "try to convince my target he is scum", I'm obviously not doing that. What I'm doing is: -If somehow that guy is town, point out the scummy things he's doing, and how they come from a mafia perspective. If he's town, hopefully this will make him realize what he's doing and change his play accordingly, so he doesn't get misslynched -I want the guy to know why he's scummy, this way he has no way to hide. If he keeps acting like he is doing after I mention that, then it means he acknowledged what I said but didn't care about it. That is a strong indication of mafia for me (or at points, depending on his play, maybe a townie), depending on his reactions. -If the guy is scum, then it also kills 2 birds with 1 stone by showing other people why he's scum. Gonz, could you post a few examples from your town games where you have this sort of posting style toward your hard scumreads? I don't want to look through filters since I don't know exactly what games you had a hard scumread. And you should be able to come up with one or two examples since it should be part of your standard town play Here are my filters if you wanna check out. I think I do that with Jingle in Aperture 2, maybe Mattchew on Can't Believe, but other than that I don't remember much. Aperture 2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=372174&user=237527 Can't Believe: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351147&user=237527 | ||
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gonzaw
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Why the fuck am I getting like 20 votes? Can someone put a tl:dr; version while I'm reading the thread? | ||
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gonzaw
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From whom? | ||
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gonzaw
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That's so obviously bullshit. I didn't mason anybody at all that doesn't make sense? Wow holy shit let me think about this | ||
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gonzaw
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Vivax are you lying about this for a reason or somethign? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
The thing is that It doesn't make sense for either: -A framer to frame me "mafia jack mason" instead of, say just "mafia jack" -Vivax being scum fake-claiming I'm "mafia jack mason". There's some scum motivation behind either of those, and someone faked a "jack mason", which doesn't make sense because I'm obviously not mason and didn't mason anybody, so how the fuck would they expect anybody to believe that? | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
It's possible that they had thought I was already a mason, maybe one of FT's "secret masons", and took a risk framing me as scum mason, knowing it'd be more convincing after FT outs me as mason or something I don't fucking know if it was a framer or Vivax is going for a power-play, and then later claim framer when i'm misslynched I am also a VT, which doesn't matter at all anyways so might as well claim. Fuck this shit is just too stressful. I have my cousin's wedding tomorrow and have to organize shit for it, this is not what I was expecting when I joined this game. | ||
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gonzaw
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I'll try to spend my time reading Vivax and figure out if he's scum fakeclaiming or if there's a mafia framer out there. I take it this will be better for town later. | ||
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gonzaw
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But Vivax has been so anti-town all game....like I could easily be wrong. Arhg | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
On January 25 2013 03:44 FiveTouch wrote: I'm fairly sure "being lazy" was not the answer you gave me yesterday when I asked you why you weren't as much a central figure as I had expected. Yes it was, or it implies it anyway Not that it matters much. | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Now this is the story all about how My life got flipped, turned upside down And I'd like to take a minute just here I claim I'll tell you how I became the mafia jack mason of the game In west Liquidia born and raised On the thread and QT where I spent most of my days Chilling out, maxing, relaxing all cool And shooting some KP according to the rule When a couple of players, they were up to no good Started making trouble in my neighbourhood I got in one little fight and my scumteam got scared And said "You will now become the mafia jack mason of the game" I PMed the host and when he came near The username said "BC" and his coolness was severe If anything I could say that this host had fame But I thought nah, forget it, yo homes make me the jack mason of the game! I pulled up a PM about seven or eight And I PMed to the host "Yo, homes smell you later!" Looked at my role I finally became To sit on my throne as the mafia jack mason of the game | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
Seems I keep doing shitty games as scum where town roflstomp us though lol Like...counting both Bureaucracy and this game....has there been a NOT scum lynch in any cycle? Damn. Check QT for discussions and shit | ||
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gonzaw
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Scum: http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/Jn9qiCXSYTg | ||
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gonzaw
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On February 02 2013 07:59 wherebugsgo wrote: I was also pretty confident that if gonzaw didn't die he'd be scum, Well that kind of "WIFOM" doesn't make things easier on me this game >_> Specially when scum pull that shit every single game I'm town | ||
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gonzaw
Uruguay4911 Posts
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