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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 20 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont feel confident lynching JieXian off 2 posts... He has expressed delight in 2 players for mayor and hasnt expanded or anything. Regardless, Isnt it quick to vilify him so quickly? This is an extremely odd defence of JieXian. Why are you making it? ##Vote: austinmcc | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 05:43 gonzaw wrote: Speaking of those, 5's first post is somewhat suspicious: First statement in the whole game and it's just to cast doubt on someone random from the thread. Of course not mentioning the unfounded vote on austin...which to be honest is more of a null tell than scum tell since I can't really see much benefit to do so as scum, other than the usual "create chaos/wifom" strategy. That's because I find what Oats said to be the scummiest thing in the thread at the time, and I still feel that way. Given this is a mayoral election day, there is no risk whatsoever of a fast bandwagon on to JieXian, so his defence of him was completely unwarranted. Why did Oats not want any pressure on JieXian? Oats wasn't even defending his play, rather the fact there was pressure on him. It's scummy. I voted for austin (and missed the voting thread) because I liked the wording he picked up in Toad's post, it looked like a townie mindset to me. sandroba not running for mayor is concerning in of itself, and his reason (decided before the game) is a weak one. I was kind of ok letting it slide, except he's now compounded it by not giving any input to the thread as well. As a prime player, if he's town, he should be using his expertise to help town come to good decisions, and he's distinctly not doing so. | ||
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FiveTouch
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Him promising to play normally in future days is not alignment indicative, and it's a terrible reason to elect a mayor. | ||
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On January 21 2013 08:08 Mocsta wrote: Hmmm tough. I agree on chezinu. He needs to input more to the thread. I was expecting a lot more from him considering the reputation and kneepad job debears gave. But i dont like at all voting austin off that 1post. To me either u fling your vote with wild abandon .or. Know something special i dont.. Cause for concern either way. Having said that. I liked austinmcc answers to my questions BUT this came after you voted. fivetouch The other strong candidate .at least in toads eyes. Is gonzaw. Assuming both are town. Whose reasonings so far are u going to stick with for a vote and why.. This just means I saw something before you were able to see it. The rest of your questions are pointless. Do you think scum would have read Toad's post closely enough to pick out something on the exact way it was phrased, and then comment/explain it? | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 08:19 Toadesstern wrote: well you're paying attention, so wouldn't mind voting you... Although I don't like giving away the kind of information you're giving away right now because it opens up all possibilities of being manipulated, but that's fine with me right now. You seem like you know what you're doing. Can I convince you to run for mayor? :p What kind of information are you referring to? Being mayor would be terrific, but I'm not going to run a platform to try to get people to vote for me. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 08:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Explain how Sandro's answer is scummy and yours not so? sandroba is one of the strongest players ever seen on the forum, I'm some random guy. For the same reason I don't find you scummy for not running for mayor. You're not sandroba. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 08:26 Toadesstern wrote: You know, that stuff about austin / my post. If you keep on telling mafia that kind of stuff they know how to pull strings on you which is the reason I'd rather have people keep that to themselves and why I never mentioned it / why I keep telling people to not talk about townreads. I find it hard to stay unaffected when everyone knows what I'm building my (town-)reads on. I'm comfortable with the idea that mafia might try to manipulate me. Therein lies mistakes. DearestSnot: I'm not sure. prplhz is even more inactive than he normally is as mafia, he usually at least pretends to play the game a little. And at least the posts he has made have a certain light-hearted tone to them. I'd really much rather lynch Oatsmaster at the moment. For the reason I already mentioned, and in addition he asked me a terrible question on why me not running for mayor is not the same as sandroba not running for mayor. This means he read my post where I quite clearly stated it was sandroba's continuing lack of input that was the real problem, so he's twisting my words for no discernable reason. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 08:56 DearestSnot wrote: Your rule is the one that the first person to call you scum is scum? I actually don't remember. I'd be down to kill Oats. You guys wanna elect me to mayor? I'll lynch Oats or prplhz. I'm going to ignore any mayoral candidates who have no intention of lynching into those two. FT would you be down with that? If so, we should run for mayor together, and then we can take mayor/sheriff. I'm curious if you see anything in prplhz besides his inactivity. For example, annul is in an almost identical position. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 09:09 austinmcc wrote: Just to make sure I've got this bit entirely correct, do you also find JX scummy, or just Oats here? Just Oats. JieXian is floating around in bleh-ville. | ||
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FiveTouch
Marshall Islands1474 Posts
On January 21 2013 09:30 austinmcc wrote: I guess the above isn't a full thought. If you don't consider Chezinu a candidate for mayor, I think you're being silly. He's a risky pick because he could be scum and he doesn't seem particularly readable before the election ends, plus he might just be chezinu as mayor, but in a vacuum he's a solid mayor candidate and you shouldn't write him off. This post makes no sense. The fact that it's extremely hard to get a confident town-read on Chezinu so early is precisely why it's ok to write him off as a candidate. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 09:31 DearestSnot wrote: GM, fivetouch or whomever you are: read this. Now, what did prplhz say in his first post? I will lynch Chezinu, non negotiable. That was the fourth post following the daypost, and Chezinu hadn't even posted yet. Secondly, compared to his most recent games, the ones I'm looking at are Pick your Poison and GSL Open, Dwarf Mini, etc. my initial impression is that he seems to be following more his mafia style than his town style. As town he quickly starts looking to kill scum. He asks questions as both alignments, but he doesn't solely ask questions as town. He also does some of his own work, and his questions are at the very least aligned toward accomplishing something. I don't see that here. In addition to that, he delurked right when I called him out, and has done nothing to actually indicate that he is interested in killing scum, or even electing a mayor who would kill scum. I looked over XLVII (the massive shitfest game where he was scum) but he seemed to post a lot more fluff there and as far as I can remember he played scum quite differently there than he did in other games. Ok, I can roll with this read. I looked up two of his recent town-games, and in one he lurked and got lynched Day 1 (Mad Men Mafia). In both games (Rock Band, Mad Men) he opened up by asking people to consolidate and not spam, whereas in his mafia games he opens in a more trolly style - in Dwarf he came in laughing that he hadn't read the thread, in Normal mini mafia 2 he spammed votes down. Similar with GSL Open. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 09:39 austinmcc wrote: I don't like writing someone off as unreadable. It's so lazy to just say "Chez hard to read and silly" and completely ignore the "Chez often has very, very good reads" aspect. He's got enough upside if he's town and in the mayor position that it's worth considering him and trying to read him. Chezinu rarely, if ever, starts coming up with his good reads during the first cycle. And we are electing a mayor in the first cycle. So yes, I am writing him off. Unless you have some hitherto unheard of method of reading Chezinu on day 1 that you would like to share with us? | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 10:29 yamato77 wrote: For no reason. You don't think vivax is scummy for the post I pointed out? Why not? Illogical != scum. | ||
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On January 21 2013 09:47 prplhz wrote: when no one has posted chezinu is clearly the best lynch. the guy is a lunatic in more ways than i care to know about and most importantly, he never seems very occupied with anything but himself and his lunacy and this makes for bad reads on him. if you don't want to get read then i believe it's a lot harder to play with you and chezinu is one of these (maybe the only one). why would i "delurk" when you call me out but not when sandroba called me out? that makes no sense, sandroba is SANDROBA and you're just some german with a low post count. it makes a lot more sense that i was just around at that particular time especially considering that it was around 6pm iirc. no i'm not worrying too much about who to lynch right now. i read gonzaw and he seems like a perfectly good mayor candidate to me and the scum reads i have are pretty i'm not sure about them at all. that's why i asked who he wanted to lynch, so i could read up on that person. i don't see the JX thing that sandro sees. i don't really care for you irrationally going for me because i seem to recall that you do that i most of your games. i think it's really weird that you're not spamming more though but maybe that's because you were smurfing and you didn't want to play like you usually do, you picked it up after you revealed yourself. It concerns me greatly that people don't want to lynch prplhz. This is a typical scum post. prplhz hasn't played the game all cycle, and when he does make his one post here, he only does so to attack bugs, and tell us that he doesn't care about the game. He also does not even attempt to refute the point brought up that he abhors policy lynches as town, and yet effectively proposed one here. As such, austin no longer gets my vote. ##Unvote | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 10:58 sandroba wrote: @FT i'm actually kinda torn on that post, the way it's written it looks a bit sincere and from stream of thought. I agree the content is poor, but his latest games prpl has been kind of angry mode. Has prplhz rolled town since Rock Band? In any case, I grab a post from there, where he was under suspicion early: On September 18 2012 08:54 prplhz wrote: Yea I had just queue a game of DotA2 when you posted it and then I decided that I would rather see how it other people reacted before shooting it down. I don't really get the first argument. You are saying that my first posts are similar in my scum games, this doesn't make me scum. Then you argue that the first posts themselves have a distinct scummy agenda which is very disputable but more importantly, do you really think that any scum feel the need to push any agenda in their first post? I think that my first post is townie, I think that for all of those scum games you posted. At least the content is townie. Not everything scum posts is scummy. As for the "He's not quick to vote", no that's right, I didn't vote yet during the first 30 minutes of the game. I think it's a very thin argument that I should be scum because of that. I think I like to play both styles styles of "aggressive" and "careful and prodding" as town, I guess it all depends on what mood I am in. Anyway, I think your case on me looks townie and with everything else you've posted I'm pretty confident that you're town. austinmcc, I thought this guy looked really scummy up until this post. It's especially his explanation of that single word "OBVIOUS" that seems very townie to me. It looks like he really thought carefully about my alignment and didn't consider covering his own ass or anything like that. I like that. Townie for now. Mementoss is a little harder. I think he just voted me because I posted a dumb picture and corrected his grammar. That can be really antagonizing I hate when people do that to me when I make a dumb little mistake. Overall I've got a townie feeling about him. marvellosity is pretty shabby for now. Show me some of that "thinky" that you promised before the game. We also need everybody else to join the game and post some more. Here he rationally talks about the case made on him, with little anger. He goes on to share thoughts on several players of the game, while also encouraging people to post more. This attitude doesn't mesh with the prplhz that I've seen so far this game. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 11:04 sandroba wrote: I agree, I just remember some recent game he subbed out where people thought he was scum and he was a bit bitter. It's better if he points it out, i can't recall which one. That was in fact ACME mini mafia: On November 01 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote: okay so everybody joined and then they outed again :/ anyway millers need to claim as soon as possible. if anybody has something else to claim then that's fine too. also, can we please only say things that we mean this game? i'm sick and tired of people making bullshit cases for dumb and scum to jump on just because they felt it was a good way to get the game started. it's perfectly possible (and in my opinion desirable) to play the game without saying dumb shit you don't really think for the lulz of it. this is kind of like lynch all liars except it doesn't have a fancy name (yet). This attitude pervades his town games, actually. People can check this for themselves. He regularly asks people to post more when he is town as well. | ||
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##Vote: FiveTouch | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 11:25 Djodref wrote: Regarding prplhz, I can understand that he wants to lynch Chezinu if he really thinks that Chezinu is unreadable. He didn't like policy lynch in one game, that doesn't make him hating policy lynches forever. Like we say in France, "only stupid people never change their minds". Also I don't see scum blatantly enter the thread like this, because blending in and flying under the radar is a better strategy in big games I guess. I didn't like Austin posts at first but he has been extensively open about his thoughts when I asked him a few questions. Also he started to post some content. And I don't disagree with what he posts since. I could support an Oats lynch by the way, but I'm not sold on a prplhz lynch. This is a disappointing post, as far as I'm aware usually you are quite diligent in games. Here are scum prplhz's various first posts in threads: On July 06 2012 20:03 prplhz wrote: ##Vote: slOosh On July 06 2012 21:05 prplhz wrote: lol marv is scum ##Vote marvellosity or maybe: On August 08 2012 05:38 prplhz wrote: Hey didn't read thread yet can anybody tell me who is scum? or how about: On September 06 2012 05:48 prplhz wrote: hello everybody should write something then i'll read it tomorrow evening and tell you who is scum also can anybody explain to me who ange777 is? thanks Quite 'blatant', wouldn't you say, Djodref? | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote: What made you change your mind Fivetouch? I thought your answer to why you didnt want to be mayor was So what changed? This is the second or third time you've asked me questions where the answer is readily available in my filter. I said very clearly why I was now voting for myself. | ||
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On January 21 2013 11:47 Mocsta wrote: I look at my opinion as impartial. I am not familiar with your meta, and read it directly as I see it. Your methods in the first 12hrs boded well with me, but not enough I felt compelled to say anything. However, your approach now, that you have seen a smidgen of light is off-putting. I cant tell if its because you are excited at a chance you didnt think you had though.. all i know is, it leaves a odd-vibe with me. @all Those with better meta-reads of Toad than me.. what do you make of him buddying up with Vivax? I thought Toad was adamant on not sharing town reads, because it was easy for scum to do? Now he is declaring Vivax as a top town read? Thoughts? I'm still unsure on Toad, but you have to bear in mind that we are electing two positions today, and that we need to elect town. So in contrast to a normal Day 1 where we are hunting scum, it's important for people to identify one or two people they feel are town. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. Terrible questions equal scum? I didnt know that bad play was scummy play as well :O Within the very quote that you have quoted is the refutation to your non-point. I've bolded it for you. It's nothing to do with simply bad play, as is perfectly clear. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 12:17 Oatsmaster wrote: It was quickly becoming, YEAH IM IN FAVOUR OF LYNCHING JX CAUSE VETS SAID HE WAS SCUM. yeah, which is dumb as fuck. Please provide evidence of this. As far as I can see, sandroba called JieXian, and also Vivax. And that's it, before you made your post about it. | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 21:24 yamato77 wrote: I'm torn on this game at the moment. On one hand, I think I am confirming my own bias when it comes to Toad's play this game. On the other, he keeps doing shit I want to call him scum for. I would really rather see him just die so I can begin to understand this game a bit better. It's good, at least, that you recognise your own confirmation bias with regards to Toad. Mostly your issues with Toad's play come down to the fact that you don't agree with plenty of things he has said, and you heavily dislike his delivery, which you see as condescending or antagonistic. These are not good reasons to think somebody is mafia. So take a step back and reassess; in LVIII you tunneled an active player constantly, right up to the moment he flipped town. This is not a game of veterans vs newer players. It's town vs mafia. If the veterans are not communicating effectively, then they/we need to work on that, but in a similar vein, the newer players need to listen to what we have to say, because we have a lot of experience. On January 21 2013 13:05 yamato77 wrote: I'd be most willing to give WBG a pass because I know him quite well by now and I don't think it's alignment indicative that he wants to lynch people I would call Lynchbait. I would say it is for Sandroba, and this Fivetouch character who apparently wants to be taken seriously. This post (and similar ones you have made) demonstrate a faulty, destructive mindset. You were in the last game where mafia lurked and twiddled their thumbs while watching town burn themselves to the ground. But you are pushing the idea that lurkers are "lynch-bait", which is effectively a statement of intent that you will protect lurkers on this basis, and go after more 'active' players. So it's a direct encouragement to lurk for mafia. Incidentally Mocsta looks better to me now for picking up on this himself. The case on prplhz is not merely that he's lurking (else we could apply this to various others). The case is that he entered the thread pushing a policy idea he's said he hates as town, the case is that he came in trolling which he only does as mafia and not as town, the case is that he's posting little and not encouraging others to post like he does as town, the case is that his only major post yesterday was ranting at bugs and not caring about town or the mayor, or a lynch. His attitude so far is mafia-oriented, and this is backed up by his history. Further, you seem to agree with my Oats read. What exactly is the problem we're having? | ||
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FiveTouch
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On January 21 2013 22:28 prplhz wrote: bah fivetouch i say dumb shit in the beginning of a ton of games, might do it in scum games too but what do you want me to say to that? if i post within the first few posts i usually say something very radical in one way or the other i think, i do it to start discussion (works better than just saying "hey guys get talking", providing something to talk about). while i dislike chezinu policy lynches, he was the best lynch at the time, don't you agree? i thought it would polarize people and spur discussion. it kinda did but not really in the way i had hoped that it would. if you think i'm "angry" or whatever i don't know about that. i'm actually in a pretty decent mood. i don't see what my mood has to do with my aligment though. as for oats he could be scum but it seems kinda dumb for him to go for gonzaw. @gonzaw who are you lynching when you become mayor? How do you reconcile your attitude here with your attitude in this game, when you were town? On November 01 2012 07:35 prplhz wrote: okay so everybody joined and then they outed again :/ anyway millers need to claim as soon as possible. if anybody has something else to claim then that's fine too. also, can we please only say things that we mean this game? i'm sick and tired of people making bullshit cases for dumb and scum to jump on just because they felt it was a good way to get the game started. it's perfectly possible (and in my opinion desirable) to play the game without saying dumb shit you don't really think for the lulz of it. this is kind of like lynch all liars except it doesn't have a fancy name (yet). In the first quote you say you often say radical/dumb things to get the game started. In the second you are heavily attacking this notion. | ||
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On January 21 2013 23:04 AxleGreaser wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 22:14 FiveTouch wrote: yamato, you need to listen to what I have to say without being defensive. From the manner of your posting, and your difficulties as scum last game, I consider it likely you are town this game. It's good, at least, that you recognise your own confirmation bias with regards to Toad. Mostly your issues with Toad's play come down to the fact that you don't agree with plenty of things he has said, and you heavily dislike his delivery, which you see as condescending or antagonistic. These are not good reasons to think somebody is mafia. So take a step back and reassess; in LVIII you tunneled an active player constantly, right up to the moment he flipped town. This is not a game of veterans vs newer players. It's town vs mafia. If the veterans are not communicating effectively, then they/we need to work on that, but in a similar vein, the newer players need to listen to what we have to say, because we have a lot of experience. This post (and similar ones you have made) demonstrate a faulty, destructive mindset. You were in the last game where mafia lurked and twiddled their thumbs while watching town burn themselves to the ground. But you are pushing the idea that lurkers are "lynch-bait", which is effectively a statement of intent that you will protect lurkers on this basis, and go after more 'active' players. So it's a direct encouragement to lurk for mafia. Incidentally Mocsta looks better to me now for picking up on this himself. The case on prplhz is not merely that he's lurking (else we could apply this to various others). The case is that he entered the thread pushing a policy idea he's said he hates as town, the case is that he came in trolling which he only does as mafia and not as town, the case is that he's posting little and not encouraging others to post like he does as town, the case is that his only major post yesterday was ranting at bugs and not caring about town or the mayor, or a lynch. His attitude so far is mafia-oriented, and this is backed up by his history. Further, you seem to agree with my Oats read. What exactly is the problem we're having? So the case on prplhz is due to his meta. What a shame you don't have any on purpose. With a mayoral position up for grabs with its extra defenses why cant we as town have some meta so we can be fully informed of your towniness by comparing you to your meta. I don't like being paranoid but it is the game, even if you supposedly out yourself now is there some actual code of conduct here that says your not allowed to lie? So no you are a nameless, meta less, purposefully information limiting, smurf forever to me, as is DearestSnot. General guide to mafia states "Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence", guess that pregame, you hoped you would roll scum and bet the farm on it, how is that working out so far. Actually from the sheep you have it tow pretty darn good. So yeah maybe you have the experience edge on what other people will take. Instead of complaining that I'm a smurf, why don't you assess the merits of what I've said instead? For example, the post I just made on prplhz. Do you see and understand the contradiction? Do you find it valid, and if not why not? I have been explicitly clear on the players I want to lynch, and the reasons. prplhz has been absent and doesn't appear to care, and there are clear contradictions in his town play and play this game which I've pointed out. | ||
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In any case, prplhz is only defending himself with bad arguments: On January 21 2013 23:42 prplhz wrote: lynching chezinu isn't a bullshit bad case. you're right that i don't generally support policy lynches and i don't support a chezinu policy lynch under normal circumstances either but when you have nothing to go by (2-3 posts into the game) a chezinu lynch is absolutely the best idea (maybe not a good idea but it's absolutely the best idea). the bullshit case i am referring to in the second quote was from a game when some dude made a huge textwall on me 2 pages into the game, everybody jumped on it, i ended up lynched, then in the qt he told me "lol, i never actually thought you were scum i just made the case to get the game started". that's the bullshit i was talking about and i'm not doing anything comparable to that here. i have no idea about this "attitude" thing so i'm not going to comment on it at all. By the time prplhz posted, Vivax had made his candidate speech, and indeed prplhz commented on it. So why the need to also run for mayor on a policy lynch, which he said was "non-negotiable". If he genuinely means it's non-negotiable, then the fact there has been little to go on so far is irrelevant, otherwise it's a trolly lie, and also in accordance with how he tends to enter his games as scum (I showed the thread several of his mafia entrances earlier). prplhz, can you provide me a town game where you started in a similar fashion to this? Axlegreaser, there's no real way to get around your issue with the fact I'm smurfing. You can hold me accountable for my actions through my reads and how I make and push them. My play in this game will stand for itself. If this isn't enough for you, then don't elect me as mayor. | ||
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On January 22 2013 00:26 annul wrote: so, the fact nobody is attacking them must mean that they are not shit arguments. but why ignore? How Vivax is playing isn't far outside of his town MO, even though as you point out it isn't always productive. His activity and level of engagement with the thread make him a poor lynch choice for today. In addition, you complain that people aren't addressing your arguments, but you have only talked about Vivax yourself. | ||
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On January 22 2013 01:04 austinmcc wrote: So, I generally agree with this. I'll back off pushing that point. I've seen frustrated scumteams when one member who's semi-inactive gets suspicion on him early, but you're right, the general mood in QT then is to try and get the guy to be more active. Unsure if the amount of pressure that stutters has gotten this game really amounts to much though, so I'd like to try and get some focus back on him. Really one of the only defensive comments that I can remember is Bugs saying he's often scummy as town. I'm not satisfied with that, and I still don't like stutters play, even if you take out the thought that others might be telling him to keep his head down. Do you think that without that point stutters looks fine? Just looks like an inactive dude? As to your lynch candidates, I don't like the contradiction part of the case on prplhz. Yes, he said he didn't like policy lynches and now ran on lynching chezinu. But I don't think all contradictions are scummy, and I don't think contradictory quotes from months ago in a different game + quotes from this game are particularly strong. Both the policy lynch quotes AND the early bullshit at the start of a game quotes span different games and a couple months. There's more merit to the second than the first, people say all sorts of bullshit about policy lynches, but actively saying you're against dumb/flashy entrances to get the game moving and then saying you often do that...is more troubling. In some ways, you reconcile the second contradiction with your own filter-diving of prplhz, though. You grabbed a lot of flashy entrances, or peculiar entrances to threads, and they were from scum games. It's pretty clear that his play does not match up with his statement that he doesn't like starting games off in a certain way to get discussion going, or at least you seem to be saying that with your above post. You think only scum prplhz starts off that way and town prplhz actually practices what he previously preached? Or do you think prplhz's comment about not liking bullshit at the start of the game is bullshit itself? austin, I agree Stutters doesn't look good, and agree with what you said, apart from what I highlighted already. My issue with a Stutters lynch is that it's very similar to prplhz (bad entrance, bad followup), except prplhz has done more and worse than Stutters, so he's a better lynch. In the town games I looked at from prplhz, I did not find one instance of him entering in a 'trolly' way, as opposed to the multitude of scumgames provided. This is why I have asked prplhz to provide me with an example - I don't think it exists. | ||
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On January 21 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, I was wrong and you were right, I just feel that JX wasent scum off those 2 posts. HOWEVER, his disappearance since then is not good for him being town. I dont want to vote for a mayor that advocates lurker lynching because it removes the responsibility that the mayor has to justify his lynches. I want the mayor to not be fucking retarded and actually takes some responsibility for his actions. On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game. Vote: Austinmcc cool story bro. Anyone voting for austin is voting for the same dude as this guy. Or even this guy: On January 21 2013 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote: So many people sheeping 'Fivetouch' Gonna be a good game huh. On January 21 2013 11:34 Oatsmaster wrote: So you made up your mind that town was useless after 12 hours? Why didnt you push to be mayor before? Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me? On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. | ||
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On January 22 2013 02:51 austinmcc wrote: If this is a real question, then it's because I didn't address every point that every player brought up about some guy, because I'm human, etc. If it's not a real question, knock it off. I'd like to believe I'm not for killing stutters for "lurking," but because of the actual posts he has. When I look at the posts you're talking about, I don't get full-on inconsistency from them, or at least what you're seeing. What you are seeing in the second post: Right? That's what you're really taking issue with? That he identifies Stutter as a lurker, says he is going to lurk all game? However, his first post is that he doesn't want a mayor whose policy is to lynch lurkers, because he wants an accountable mayor. That is actually WEIRD to me because I haven't seen a single mayor candidate who says "Let's lynch a lurker." Everyone seems to have actual reasons for voting the folks they want to vote, or hasn't given a specific candidate, afaik. So...that's just a funky statement given that, in my mind, there is no mayoral candidate with the platform that Oats is against a mayoral candidate having. That aside, I don't see the second post as fully inconsistent with the first. If you pull out different phrases, it matches up. He seems to have reasons to vote me besides my choice of lynch. While that may be playing a part, he at least identifies a couple things that I have done/said. When he references me and stutter, he says that he agrees with my lynch target after reading my reasoning. My reasoning is not "stutter is lurking kill stutter." So to me, that goes find with the first post. I'm not advocating lurker lynching at all, I've advocating stutter-lynching. He at least has paid lip-service to the idea that I have reasoning behind that advocacy. You're so fluffy, you post a lot but tend to manage to miss the main highlights. 1) Oats doesn't want to have a mayor who wants to lynch lurkers 2) Oats does not comment on prplhz at all 3) Oats likes your Stutters lynch, at least in part because "...he has 4 posts...then [he's going to] lurk his way through the game" Why is Oats not commenting on prplhz at all? Why is he liking the lurking aspect of the Stutters case when being completely against it for the mayor? Why did Oats attack me repeatedly and tarnish my motives, and then say "I bleed town"? | ||
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On January 22 2013 03:12 austinmcc wrote: (3) To the extent you like "I'm doing x/looking at x/be right there guys" into "silence" as a scummy thing, Catching up now guys! I would note that for Stutters at least, this isn't really a tell of anything. He's hosting the upcoming newbie game: On January 20 2013 09:22 Stutters695 wrote: Welcome Slay/Ska. I'll edit you guys into the op when I get off work. He did not do this. This game has various similar offenders: On January 21 2013 11:18 BroodKingEXE wrote: Um, /confirm. Sorry I was out of the house yesterday, reading up. On January 21 2013 08:35 Clarity_nl wrote: Life and things, but you know me, I stay up late generally. Currently reading | ||
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On January 22 2013 03:24 austinmcc wrote: Yeah yeah, I'm fluffy. And you ask lots of rhetorical questions, or questions aimed at the wrong party. Oats does not comment on prplhz, that's true. Nobody but oats can tell you why. I read what you have as (1) and (3) here differently than you do, but again, only Oats knows what's happening in Oatsbrain. I find point (1) odd, that post odd, because he seems to be giving this generic "I don't want a mayor who is just going to lynch a lurker" thought, when NO mayoral candidate wanted to do that. That thought, vocalizing it out of nowhere in the middle of a post, IS weird. But I find his later bit liking a stutters lynch to be in harmony with the earlier post, because it's NOT a lurker lynch. I'm not proposing lynching stutters because he's lurking, so I don't see why supporting me would run afoul of not wanting to elect a mayor who wants to lurker lynch. I'm not arguing that you're simply lynching a lurker, the thing is that his main summary for *him* agreeing with your read is the lurking aspect. I ask rhetorical questions to bring you around to a different way of thinking. Frankly your assuredness that Stutters is mafia, combined with the fact you dismiss the prplhz wagon for nebulous reasons, is bizarre to say the least: On January 22 2013 01:41 austinmcc wrote: I guess I'm just used to seeing prplhz get lynched early on, and most of the games I've been involved in they've been mislynches. Rock Band, looney lynching, are the ones that come to mind for town prplhz getting pressured off the bat but flipping town. I know that I've read or obsed a few games in which the same thing happened with him as mafia though, can't remember names but he claimed cop D1 in some mini and lived for a while/til endgame. I'm looking at him and stutters more, but maybe I'm just overly wary of early prplhz lynches because I keep seeing wagons get built on him that can't be derailed, whether by scum or town. Effectively prplhz gets attacked early when he's both town and scum, so you're wary of lynching into him? Given you were so keen to look into Stutters' meta, can you find a town prplhz game where he entered the game in a similar fashion to this one? (as opposed to the mafia games I referenced). The arguments against prplhz are simply far stronger than the stringy case you have on Stutters. | ||
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On January 22 2013 03:30 sandroba wrote: @palmar (FT) I want to kill this dude instead what do you say? I understand where you're coming from, but this horrible indecisiveness marks all of his town play. | ||
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On January 22 2013 06:10 sandroba wrote: JX, fuba and debears are all voting you. All of each i think have a fair shot at being scum, with fuba having a really high chance. Also it's really weird that those players would chose to vote you in the first place. I think your posts are fairly townie, so the other possible explanation for you getting the majority of those votes is that prpl isnt scum. And as i said many times already prpl's post feel genuine to me. I'd rather have him around at least one more day and see what happens with the vote tomorrow. I just don't read the genuine that you do. While I agree with you on fuba - his content is markedly lacking - I don't particularly agree with you on JieXian/debears. It's also in my mind that you completely misread prplhz last time you were in a game with him. | ||
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On January 22 2013 06:17 sandroba wrote: The case is not that he is lacking content, stop saying that. The problem is the way he posts and his activity while he says he would be available. You will prob get mayor and you can push prpl tomorrow, let's just lynch fuba today. if prplhz is willing to at least try to answer my question on his entrances to the thread, given he claimed he made similar entrances to this game as town, (saying random crap) then I'm willing to reconsider his lynch. If he afks and doesn't even converse with me on the matter, I consider him to be avoiding the subject in a way there would be no excuse to do as town. | ||
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On January 22 2013 07:05 Chezinu wrote: you know who is awesome? Prplhz, Clarity_nl, mocsta, and Broodkingexe! The are like the best players ever. They are sooo cooll that if they vote for me, I would to them. You know why? Cause Chezinu listens to the people that vote for him. He would be willing to let his people vote for who he should lynch. They could simply vote in the thread by typing #lynch (name). Chezinu would listen. Vote Chezinu to be heard. If you don't, Chez may still listen to you - but you just won't be close enough to be heard clearly! So you would accept input on who to lynch from the guy you want to lynch? (prplhz) | ||
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It's encouraging that you're bringing annul up, on my read through this evening he came up as quite possibly mafia to me. He focuses in on Vivax, who is remarkably easy to attack as either alignment. He's done this at the expense of anything else, despite complaining that he's being ignored. | ||
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On January 22 2013 07:28 austinmcc wrote: I can't help but interpret "it's encouraging that..." as the verbal equivalent of petting a cat or dog for a successful trick. Can't figure out how I feel about that, except that I like the image. Annul's just kind of an anomaly at this point. He IS focused on vivax/toad and, to a lesser extent, axle's posting. He's got more than a page of filter, way more than other players who have been inactive, but it's mostly forgettable. I'm always surprised to see that there's a next page for him. That said, I'm not even sure I'm at "quite possibly mafia" on him. I don't know him or his play well, but if he's scum then his lack of presence on D1 in a mayoral game feels off. I'd expect him to be trying to get SOME kind of control over things, unless all of the candidates are equally meh. To the highlighted, that's an issue that I've been struggling with your alignment this evening, so for my read on you it's a good sign you're bringing up annul. The last time I saw annul play he seemed more involved, for better or for worse. The fact he's been more irrelevant this game is certainly not anything approaching a town-tell, as you seem to be suggesting. | ||
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On January 22 2013 07:27 Vivax wrote: If you don't think JX is town, then maybe you should let him respond to my argument by himself. Good that you bring up annul, FT. Would you deem him lynch worthy? I certainly won't be lynching him today over prplhz or Oatsmaster. The rest of the time I have before the deadline will go towards making a decision between these two. | ||
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On January 22 2013 07:55 Vivax wrote: @ FT Are you open to other suggestions why I think JX is scum? Oats is kinda linked to him with that quick defence post, but I'd kinda have a hard time seeing scum defending other scum, even less a townie like that. Don't let me stop you, certainly. | ||
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On January 22 2013 08:39 prplhz wrote: i'm just gonna vote for 5T he seems townie enough. i don't think he is palmar You would vote for me even though I could well lynch you? This post is all the more curious for picking up that I'm not Palmar where others, who have been paying considerably more attention, have failed to. | ||
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On June 22 2012 07:41 prplhz wrote: Okay whatever the fuck. I joined this game because I thought zentor had outed by meh. zentor is the default lynch for today because he's an unpleasant person just to have around. In case we don't find anything better then he should die just because of how destructive he is when he's town. I played with it once and I don't want to play with it again. ##Vote: MrZentor I found a prplhz policy lynch! | ||
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On January 22 2013 09:41 prplhz wrote: 5T so don't lynch me at the danger of looking stupid (more?), if i had to take a wild guess at who you are, i'd say Radfield. decent activity, good town atmosphere, wrong on d1. dunno why radfield would smurf though but i don't know why anyone would smurf, guess it's just something you do something. what's this? why do you know what roles scum have? you need to answer the question I've asked you repeatedly. | ||
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On January 22 2013 09:47 prplhz wrote: uh, are you talking about that example of something similar i've done in another game? or what yes, you contend you often come into the game with silly things as either alignment. I've looked through more of your games than I care to admit, and usually you come into town games asking people not to do stupid things/post too much/post more. I've only seen 'trolly' things from you as mafia, the only other policy lynch I found you were mafia. | ||
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On January 22 2013 10:15 Toadesstern wrote: only a goon and no GF though  Mafia probably has very little powerroles but a GF pretty much has to be in play and it's usually given to someone vet-ish... You're welcome to expand on this thought. | ||
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On January 22 2013 10:18 Toadesstern wrote: on the missing GF part or on the mafia has problably few powerroles? The GF being someone vet-ish, and who that might be. | ||
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On January 22 2013 10:22 Toadesstern wrote: oh didn't realize that mafia can decide who gets the roles. Well in that case screw that. Do you have logs of your mason chat with sandroba that you can post? | ||
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On January 22 2013 10:27 DearestSnot wrote: gimme gimme gimme I was just gonna ask you if you think sandro is scum for being wrong about prpl, but w/e. Axle looks really fucking weird if you think about what he said about smurfs and prplhz. Maybe that's just me though, I might have a bias against people who were against smurfs being elected and/or prplhz getting lynched. The oddest thing about Axle is that he was vehemently against electing a smurf on the basis that smurfs were difficult to read, but was quite happy to vote Chezinu. | ||
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Oats dismissed the prplhz case for no particular reason, while supporting the Stutters case, despite his general tone of not lynching for lurkers. It's very hard to see a town Oats right now, with his attitude towards me/austin/stutters/prplhz. | ||
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On January 22 2013 11:21 DearestSnot wrote: neither annul nor mocsta mentioned prpl, Oats was pretty waffly about prpl, and JX has no mention of him either other than in response to Chezinu to ask wtf the Chezinu rule is. fuba has one mention of prpl, and it's to say he believes prpl is the best lynch but he's not really so sure. Kinda waffly. debears has one mention of prpl, agrees with the lynch. My guess: not everyone on the mafia team will have avoided mentioning prpl, but these players give us a good direction to look in. Right now I'm willing to bet on fuba being town. He had his vote on austin and could easily have left it there, but instead sheeped on to me and the prplhz case. | ||
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On January 22 2013 16:01 DearestSnot wrote: Also it's pretty townie of Oats to call out debears like he just did. This is lazy and incorrect. It's extremely easy for anyone of any alignment to call out someone posting nonsense. How you read this as pretty townie is baffling, bugs. On January 22 2013 15:49 DearestSnot wrote: Mocsta you should read more carefully. Oats was against electing FT because FT wanted to kill him. Upon rereading and looking back at things I actually think Oats is town. Anyone agree? As soon as FT is back perhaps he can explain further why he thinks Oats actually looks worse, because I disagree on that. Please explain in detail why you believe this to be the case. I can find few, if any, redeeming features for Oatsmaster. I would specifically like sandroba's thoughts on this. Oatsmaster has attacked me twice since the deadline, when there is no basis for doing so: On January 22 2013 12:12 Oatsmaster wrote: I dismissed the case cause I didnt think that the changes in meta were particularly scummy. Although his random WIFOM vote for you without any explaination probably put the nail in his coffin. I didnt want a mayor lynching a lurker like BroodkingEXE and Clarity. See the difference between them and Stutters? I attacked you earlier because you wanted to lynch me. I dont see how you being townie means that I am all nice to you when you want to lynch me. Its not a contridication, now it looks like you are making things up in order to discredit me for whatever reason. On January 22 2013 17:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Why do you think that 5touch is Palmer, when he said that he wasnt palmer? Has that influenced your read on 5touch? Given I'm pretty much guaranteed to be town, these are both really out of place. On January 22 2013 18:12 Toadesstern wrote: Actually screw what I said about JX earlier... he was voting palmar when he openly stated he's going to lynch prplhz. That's not a mafia. I don't believe this is a correct way of approaching things. JieXian voted for me late - my mayorship was almost 100% guaranteed by the time JieXian gave me his vote. You could think of it as a late bus on a mafia wagon that was already in the lead. I'm hoping to find the time to re-read Day 1 to find the point where my candidacy was assured, or at least very likely. The reactions of mafia are likely to change throughout the day. I would like everybody to read Vivax's case on JieXian, made shortly before the deadline. Please tell me why you agree or disagree, and what conclusions you have. debears - you were part of the fiasco that was LVIII, yet your contributions remain mostly unproductive. Please step it up so that we don't risk repeating such events in this town. Now is the time for your Djodref case, or indeed any case. | ||
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On January 22 2013 22:38 AxleGreaser wrote: EBWOP On the basis of Lynching Scum D1 I take it? I know its uber ballsy as a scum Bus for Mayor to Lynch a team mate but..., but doesn't the 3 vote situation kind of level that? Are there any conditions under which you would no longer be "guaranteed to be town, these are both really out of place." Just asking for your reasoning and any limits you have on your new status. There really is no reason for a mafia mayor to lynch one of his team-mates on Day 1. An often neglected aspect of mafia lynches on Day 1 especially is that it gives a large amount of information on a lot of players in the game. There's far more to be gleaned from a mafia flip than a town flip, so the lynch isn't just about me, it's about all the players. I pushed my candidates in an open and transparent way, and perhaps even more importantly I managed to close the chasm that was threatening to open between the more experienced and the newer players. I'll continue to play in the same vein, and people can continue to judge me on my play, but there is no reason to think I could be mafia. A question for you Axle - given you were so against electing a smurf on the basis of readability, how does this line up with your decision to support Chezinu, another player notoriously difficult to read? | ||
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On January 22 2013 23:06 Oatsmaster wrote: Well 5touch, I asked the question to gauge Toads reaction, nothing to do with my read on you, I already said I think you are town. Im really confused about Vivax case, he rambles a lot and doesnt conclude at all, doesnt tell a story on how JX is scum, just links a few posts and summary. Seems like basically his case rests on the fact that JX isnt following up. Which after reading his filter, I dont agree with. I think that JX is town. I'm happy to give you a fair hearing and not condemn you out of hand, Oats. On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game. Vote: Austinmcc This was your reasoning for liking the push on Stutters. Would you argue that prplhz contributed in any meaningful way? I made it clear that prplhz showed a complete lack of interest in town affairs, and this is also clear from his filter. What did you see as town in prplhz, as opposed to the mafia in Stutters? | ||
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On January 22 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Prp was town in my view because: I liked this question @Vivax Why are you running for mayor? All you say is "I might do this, I might do that, I don't like scum, vote for me." and it seems like you don't know why you are running for mayor either. Why would we put you into office over these vets that you're not going to lynch because of how valuable they are to town? It seemed to me that no one was picking up on Vivax and the fact that his town campaign was pretty fluffy, including me. I didnt think that scum prp would do that because it focuses the attention on you and causes your actions to be more scrutinized especially since people were rolling with Vivax until his disappearence IIRC. This sounds reasonable. The problem is that prplhz was the third post after Vivax's mayoral case, with Toad saying he won't vote Vivax, and Axle questioning Vivax. So your interpretation: It seemed to me that no one was picking up on Vivax and the fact that his town campaign was pretty fluffy, including me. is simply completely incorrect, given how early prplhz made that post, and the fact that the two posts preceding it were casting doubt on the Vivax campaign. | ||
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On January 22 2013 22:59 FiveTouch wrote: A question for you Axle - given you were so against electing a smurf on the basis of readability, how does this line up with your decision to support Chezinu, another player notoriously difficult to read? | ||
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On January 23 2013 01:09 DearestSnot wrote: I would give you a 90-95% confidence that Oats is town. Look at how active and transparent he is being; in hindsight all of his posts look like that. His wariness to electing you and his initial backlash is very natural for almost any player, given that you initially ran on the platform of killing him. From his perspective you were some vet he can't even specifically accuse gunning for his lynch, with not much to say other than "you're wrong, I'm not scum." Secondly, his attitude on prplhz is not that surprising. Almost every player in the game found a better lynch than prplhz and I honestly would have myself if I were not aware of prplhz's meta. In fact, meta is almost the sole reason I was suspicious of him in the first place. You can't peg his alignment to the validity of his opinions when you know he doesn't perceive the game in the same way you do. How can you expect a less experienced player, whom you just tried to kill, to see the game in the same light as you? It doesn't make sense and quite honestly isn't fair. To the bolded - the issue is that Oats did not have a single scumread at the time, so an explanation of having found a better lynch simply doesn't ring true. There are also the multitude of points where he wilfully twisted points that I was making, or questions that had already been directly addressed, for example: On January 21 2013 10:17 Oatsmaster wrote: Why is me commenting on the pressure and the fact that it could snowball scummy? He's asking a question which is answered within the quote he's answering. Or this post, made shortly after I explained why I was voting for myself: On January 21 2013 11:34 Oatsmaster wrote: So you made up your mind that town was useless after 12 hours? Why didnt you push to be mayor before? Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? Or again here, where he misrepresents what I said: On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: Terrible questions equal scum? I didnt know that bad play was scummy play as well :O Further, look at the vast differences of opinion he has on me: On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. This is in addition to the original problem of his defence of JieXian, which he defended to the hilt, but was finally forced to back down when I provided evidence that what he claimed wasn't true. The first quote is simply a flat-out lie: On January 21 2013 12:17 Oatsmaster wrote: It was quickly becoming, YEAH IM IN FAVOUR OF LYNCHING JX CAUSE VETS SAID HE WAS SCUM. yeah, which is dumb as fuck. On January 21 2013 12:35 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, I was wrong and you were right, I just feel that JX wasent scum off those 2 posts. HOWEVER, his disappearance since then is not good for him being town. I dont want to vote for a mayor that advocates lurker lynching because it removes the responsibility that the mayor has to justify his lynches. I want the mayor to not be fucking retarded and actually takes some responsibility for his actions. I will take your opinions into account, but there are a whole plethora of reasons to think Oatsmaster is mafia. | ||
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On January 23 2013 02:16 Toadesstern wrote: back. Palmar you're okay with me giving the names of the bodyguard to Sandro later on, right? There's a reasonably good argument for telling the whole thread who the bodyguards are. For example, if mafia chose to have 2 bodyguards and simply shot both of us. | ||
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On January 23 2013 02:27 DearestSnot wrote: I think we're just going to have to disagree on Oats, I don't actually see how he is misrepresenting you. I honestly (no offense to oats) don't see it being likely that he would be able to subtly twist words like that under duress. It simply looks like he was clouded and didn't understand why you wanted him dead-under that kind of pressure players are not likely to read very clearly. There are meta arguments that point to him being mafia as well, although obviously they aren't that strong on their own. I will bring these up later. Whether you agree on the misrepresentation, there still remains: - his fast about-turn on me, going from "posting 1 liners and not much else" to "leaking town through his pores" - his extremely suspicious defence of JieXian, which he defended based on a lie. If his entire defence to this suspicious action was a lie, where does that leave us? He said that he was defending JieXian against a fast-bandwagon, and was forced to admit that one didn't even exist, nor looked like it exists. So what is the explanation for what he did? | ||
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On January 23 2013 02:26 Toadesstern wrote: I actually considered doing the bullshit and protect you tonight for that very reason. If they want to all-in they might be able to do so with a Jack by shooting you, me and Sandroba after all as well. Yes, we absolutely cannot presume we're safe tonight. Planning under that assumption is risky. I don't particularly see many downsides to the thread knowing the bodyguards. If the bodyguards are indeed town and mafia want to shoot them to get through to us, they will have made a fine sacrifice in the line of duty, and I will commemorate them with statues of gold. | ||
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On January 23 2013 02:57 DearestSnot wrote: Defending people unnecessarily has been endemic to the forum recently. I don't see how Oats doing this is any worse than people inexplicably defending prplhz or whomever after only one or two suspicions have been raised. Perhaps he saw a bandwagon on a weak townie in a previous game, perhaps he simply viewed the situation differently at the time and only realized in hindsight he was wrong, who knows. Also I think town are far more likely than scum to admit a mistake or change their opinion as drastically as he did regarding you. Most scum find it too hard or scary to change their opinion on the fly like that, because it calls too much attention to themselves. Anyway this is all I'm going to say on the matter since I'm not terribly concerned that Oats will get lynched. I think annul or debears are far better targets for tomorrow, or even someone like Clarity or BKE. You're rather missing the points. Oats did not defend JieXian directly, he attacked the bandwagon that didn't exist. His entire explanation was relating to the bandwagon. This is not the same as randomly defending people from accusations, which is simply bad (as well as possibly mafia-oriented). Oatsmaster was almost forced to change his opinion on me, for the sake of survival. He could have been asked to change his stance on me in a scumQT, who knows? There is absolutely no explanation for the about-turn. Actually the simplest explanation isn't a townie willing to change his mind with no explanation, the simplest explanation is a mafia doing what was best to try to ensure his survival. Just note prplhz voting for me at the end of the Day. "posting only one liners" -> "leaking town through his pores" is not a natural progression. Most of your arguments are either unconvincing or based on weak premises. | ||
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On January 23 2013 03:16 sandroba wrote: @palmar that attack was indeed weird but the subsequent posting doesn't feel mafia oriented to me. Actually plenty of the quotes you posted are kinda townie, freaking out about how you are getting so many votes is one of them. His stutters being mafia read is okay with me, his gonzaw being mafia read is kinda weird I guess, but I've thought about it as well. I'd much prefer to lynch into annul/bke/stutters tomorrow. Looking at how things have gone yesterday an inactive mafia team looks much more likely. JieXian is no longer on your list? mkfuba? | ||
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On January 23 2013 03:53 gonzaw wrote: But it doesn't make sense from a town perspective to be honest. Like....he instantly OMGUSes me back on D1, seemingly accusing me of being scum, but backtracks it for some reason (saying "This doesn't mean I think he's scum"). That felt out of the ordinary almost instantly, and didn't seem like a townie would post that at all. Now it seems to me he wanted to stay "consistent" with that. Since he already posted "some" suspicion on me, I would think it wouldn't be that "hard" for him to just keep up with it to the "extreme". Also I've had my fair share of scum just blatantly OMGUSing me and FoSing me for no reason in like, every single game I'm town  I think you guys are attributing a little too much meaning to something that maybe doesn't matter at all. This is correct. Most of what bugs has been posting tonight is simply incorrect. sandroba is calling things townie when there's no reason to do so, similar to how he called prplhz's posts genuine or sincere (...). bugs has made two assertions in the last few hours: 1) mafia are unwilling to change their mind on someone as easily as town, used in conjunction with Oats' volte-face on his read on me. 2) mafia are unwilling to attack a stronger player with some influence, used in conjunction with Oats' case on gonzaw. The problem is that 2 does not go with 1 if we're talking about Oats' attitude towards me on day 1. Oatsmaster attacked me early on when I was a random smurf calling him out as mafia, and then when it seemed clear that I was in a position of big influence, meekly backed down from his aggressive stance on me. This is in fact the polar opposite of 2. What stance does bugs propose a mafia Oats takes on me during Day 1? If he keeps attacking me then he's attacking a strong player with influence, and mafia are unlikely to do this. If he turns his read around, mafia are less likely to do this than town. So whichever options Oatsmaster chooses, it's a town-tell in bugs' book. Lazily applied heuristics. | ||
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On January 23 2013 04:24 DearestSnot wrote: These aren't weak reasons. Oats didn't attack you, FT, for being a smurf. He attacked you for wanting to kill him. Plenty of people will do that regardless of their alignment. I didn't say this. He attacked me at the beginning of the game when my influence was least, and it wasn't even clear if I was a decent player or anything. What I'm getting at is that he attacked me while I was comparatively 'weak' and then backed off when I was 'strong'. Then, he said that despite your willingness to lynch him, you appeared town. How many mafia willingly say something like that? That's a knowing self-contradiction and it's a huge attention-drawing move. It's also incredibly honest and it takes a very transparent player to be able to admit that their attacker is town despite being wrong about their own alignment. How many noob scum do you see that do this? How many scum on the forum are even capable of doing that? Plenty? Not every single mafia calls their attacker mafia. It's much easier for mafia to call their attacker town than it is for a townie, because mafia know the guy is town, and a townie has no idea of the alignment of his attacker. From a mafia point of view, backing down from attacking me has obvious motive - basic survival. From a town point of view, his radical change is bizarre to say the least. My opinion? Throw out all of the shit that oats did in response to the attack on him. It was far townier than what I'd expect scum to do, which is more in the line of what prpl did. He vaguely threw dirt on the case and simply lurked as a means to an end. I didn't find any particular anomaly with respect to Oats' activity nor his attitude. The reasoning you're using for him to attack you is flawed in my opinion. Townies under duress don't think initially of the calibre of their opponents, only the fact that they are wrong. This is meaningless | ||
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On January 23 2013 04:42 sandroba wrote: @palmar that's a bit of confirmation bias on your part. If you already think oats is mafia, yes, you can fit everything he posts into a mafia mindset, trying to explain how he is mafia in that situation. I really don't think we can tell for sure whether oats is mafia or not right now, because there are certain aspects of his posting that do feel a lot like a townie. My initial suspicion on Oats was based on when he called me out, I came back to the thread to answer him then posted something on JX, which he proceeded to ignore until Vivax brought it up. He then came up with a made up defense that looked bad. Now if I set my mind on him thinking I'm scum I can see him ignoring my comment and being alarmed on someone ressurecting it afterwards, then defending my suspect based on his own bias. His subsequent posting look kinda townie as wbg pointed out, and I agree with his reasoning. Of course it's possible he is pretty good at scum and is faking all that, but I don't think it's likely, and at least we should chill a bit and check out subsequent behavior, especially regarding tomorrow's lynch. Simply enough, my read differs to you. From the mafia filter you linked: On December 05 2012 00:30 Oatsmaster wrote: Currently I have a slight town read on yamato, however he seems to be acting differently as opposed to last game. Probably because he wants to improve like me, but you never know. On December 05 2012 01:05 Oatsmaster wrote: removed Im leaning slightly scum on yamato and kickstart removed On December 05 2012 09:31 Oatsmaster wrote: I changed my read on yamato because at that time, I had the impression that he was null to slightly town, then when I looked through yamato's filter, I found some scummy stuff. He starts out with the introductory post then has no content otherwise. That gives me the impression that he is asking questions to look involved and notice, he asked so many questions to axle who looked ill-equipped to answer, so its not very effective in finding scum. A contradiction, albeit the other way round. A mafia Oatsmaster has problems keeping his story consistent. In any case, you're right that I don't need to push it right now. Suffice to say I disagree with bugs' reasons to call him town. | ||
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On January 23 2013 04:56 sandroba wrote: I really don't think that's a good comparison, his whole filter in that game are random 3 liners saying XYZ is mafia for w/e reasons. This very last post you quoted look at how he struggles to justify his change of mind and how weak and fake sounding is his explanation. Very much different from this game imo. His reason for calling me town was "I leak town through my pores" There is no justification whatsoever | ||
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On January 23 2013 05:01 Toadesstern wrote: do you know the names of the bgs yet? :/ I don't, no. I've PMed BC about it too. By the way, bugs called Oats 90-95% town if you care to read the thread, my amphibious friend. | ||
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On January 23 2013 05:03 sandroba wrote: Can you quote the post he calls you scum previous to that? I really fail to see a reason to find him mafia besides what I pointed out earlier. Why are you asking me to point out contradictions I've already posted in the thread? On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. On January 21 2013 22:21 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok on to FiveTouch, He is leaking town through his pores, but I dont want to vote for him because day 1 lynch will be a mislynch. Me. However, if he changes his target, I would think about voting for him based on his reads. From his first filter analysis, I am a bunch of one-liners and not much else. In his second filter analysis I'm leaking town, with no reason given for the change. Of course it is also possible for a town Oatsmaster to change his mind like this. But the manner in which he did so is quite unnatural. | ||
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On January 23 2013 04:22 sandroba wrote: I actually reread annul's filter and I found some townie tidbits in it. If you are a vig please shoot into stutters/bke. I would like you to expand on this. | ||
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On January 23 2013 07:11 sandroba wrote: I'd rather not till he gives us something. I don't want to look bad for defending scum again =P No, please do so right now. You said you found tidbits already in his filter, so you can talk about what you found. I'd like to know before he posts too much more, actually. | ||
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On January 23 2013 07:17 sandroba wrote: I thought these 2 posts were pretty townie. I would think annul wouldn't mind being ignored as scum. My experience of annul is that he doesn't like being ignored as any alignment. | ||
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On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote: Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill). Unless some of them were a vig shot. Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"? Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? Of course, but they would be trading 2 mafia for me. | ||
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On January 23 2013 10:42 debears wrote: Btw, I say we take the focus of oats and me for today. I'll get nked tomorrow. If Oats is town he will too. ##vote annul ##vote double lynch no, this isn't good enough. The focus is moreso on you because you are in quite important positions. That means you don't abdicate responsibility for any time at all. | ||
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On January 23 2013 11:00 debears wrote: 5touch, something I was thinking on the nks unless there is some wild vig shot claim On Djo and JX I find them extremely odd. They were both on players who seemed to be more null/scum than town imo. They aren't particularly deadly town players with reputations like Gonzaw, Austin So, this makes me think the scenario for the mafia is one of two things 1) Mafia has a few vets and they want us to have to decide between actual town vets and the scum vets 2) Mafia has multiple lurkers and want us to wifom into lynching our vets What do you say? I wasn't aware that this was the reputation of gonzaw and austin. I don't quite know what happened with the nightkills, but in any case I'm certainly not lynching into bugs or Toad today. With gonzaw my read has been fluctuating. Mostly I'm curious why you bring this up. Do you think this will help us find mafia? Your entire post looks created to put ideas in people's heads, but I can't tell if it's malicious right this minute. | ||
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On January 23 2013 11:16 annul wrote: i voted DL and for dearestsnot. when the time comes, i may move that vote. You're not going to explain yourself, are you? | ||
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On January 23 2013 07:03 grush57 wrote: Heyguys I have to go..... don't kill me I am mason, I masoned yamato, I'll be back in a little bit. grush, why did you choose yamato to mason? | ||
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On January 23 2013 11:21 debears wrote: One of the best ways to catch mafia is to figure out the type of mafia we are facing no? The best way to catch mafia is through catching mafia, not speculating on night kills that we can't know the answer to. | ||
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If you are in fact town, you should be aware that the main focus of the day is unavoidably going to be on you for your posting behaviour and this vote. This would be a complete waste of a day in the situation you are town. Your unwillingness to engage with town, where a majority want to lynch you, is very mafia-oriented. Why would you wish this? | ||
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On January 23 2013 11:35 annul wrote: as i said i am not worried about being lynched whether you are worried about being lynched is completely irrelevant, and wasn't my point in the slightest. Please respond to my point (town wasting much of the day on you). | ||
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On January 23 2013 11:46 annul wrote: i cannot control what the players do. if they want to circlejerk and spend 36+ hours on me, after "already deciding" i am the target, then that is not my fault. its certainly possible to focus on more than one thing at a time. yes, it is your fault, because you could choose to engage with the town and find mafia. Why do you refuse out of hand to do this? | ||
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On January 23 2013 11:51 annul wrote: what i will not be doing is wasting 48 hours of MY time defending myself. that's what will not be happening. in over half of my games on TL, i have been the absolute tunnel on day 2. this happens when i go all in day 1, when i am moderately active day 1, and now apparently its the case even when i say almost nothing day 1. the smart play, then, is to lay down and "accept defeat" and force the players to actually do other shit than keep on attacking me. if i defend, it wastes time by giving people incentive to keep pushing me. so, i will not defend. in fact, i will not say much at all. if i feel like i can save myself when the time is running out, then i will. otherwise, i am not going to get worked up over it when the end result is ANOTHER day 2 lynch anyway. You don't have to defend yourself to find mafia. Throwing your vote on dearestsnot with the vague intention to do something with it later in the day is not that. You seem remarkably reluctant to do so, especially as finding mafia doubles up as establishing your innocence. On January 09 2012 15:49 Incognito wrote: II. Town [*]Priority #1: Establishing Your Innocence The smart play is to play the game. | ||
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On January 23 2013 12:09 DearestSnot wrote: I like gonzaw for a lynch actually. I feel like some of the things he has said are almost too dumb from a town gonzaw. In particular, his opposition to the prplhz lynch, while he somewhat supported Oats, and his opinions all game have been really neutral. I don't believe I've seen him taken a hard stance on really anything, and he is not really that proactive about his reads or his pushes. His mayoral campaign was what...he'd be transparent? Posting a lot is not the same as being transparent, particularly as I don't even remember what his lynch candidate was. Chezinu has also fallen off the face of the Earth, though he looks considerably better than most players due to his willingness to lynch prplhz so early. I hope he wasn't the one scum that decided to bus him early. Apart from the read on him, gonzaw as mafia would fill the missing hole of a serious mafia mayoral candidate on Day 1. His prplhz attitude has been nagging at me in particular. | ||
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On January 23 2013 22:10 Vivax wrote: I don't think there was a vig shot. Town vigs usually claim, anything else is detrimental. In BloodyC0bbler's last normal game, there was a multi-shot vigilante. Toad, you should have protected sandroba, but it doesn't matter now. Usually protecting the obvious target is the correct play, precisely because you end up wifoming yourself out of protecting the player that actually needs protecting. With annul, there's a fair chance he's mafia. He refuses to contribute other than to speculate pointlessly, and repeatedly, on setup, or to make useless asides. It's made worse by the fact I explained to him about his play and he doesn't care. Nonetheless, there's something that makes me feel quite uncomfortable about him. I don't know how to express is very well. In any case, if he continues to play in a mafia-oriented fashion, we should lynch him as part of our double-lynch tomorrow. gonzaw/Oatsmaster is where I'm struggling right now. I had been giving gonzaw vague townie points for a couple of reasons: he spread his suspicion around quite a bit, which he tends to more as town, and he's far more tunnelly as mafia. For a prime example of this - Liar Game - where he tunnelled Cephiro over multiple cycles to the detriment of anything else. This is mitigated, as bugs notes, by the fact that he hasn't really pushed *hard* at anyone. The second reason, and the one you can see why I'm struggling, is his suspicions of Oatsmaster, which I share. Specifically, Oatsmaster's emotional attitude and reactions. Oatsmaster, in his past games, has been in great danger of being lynched as town and mafia. As town in one of his newbie games, he almost got lynched and only saved himself with a claim. The following game he got lynched as mafia. It's notable how little he defended himself in the game as town where he almost got lynched - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381931&user=286833 Read through his filter and you'll probably struggle to work out where/when he was getting lynched, right up until the point he claimed to save himself. On November 29 2012 21:39 Oatsmaster wrote: Personal attacks are not cool yamato. This is an OMGUS vote on me by the way. This is about as aggressive as he got at any point during the game. Here is the game he got lynched as mafia - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=385389&user=286833 Read it for yourselves, it's painfully obvious he's getting lynched. Look at his aggression, and his comments on sheeping: On December 05 2012 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote: We have a sheep in the house people. What do you think of kickstart's vote on Rad and Rad himself? On December 05 2012 14:45 Oatsmaster wrote: Also kickstart, if am I 'OBVIOUS' scum, why isnt your vote on me? 1 person and a sheep already voted for me, join the ez wagon. On December 05 2012 15:27 Oatsmaster wrote: Fucking atrocious case kickstart, almost as bad as the one you posted one me last game. On December 06 2012 09:00 Oatsmaster wrote: I cant sleep guys? Seriously this is full of bullshit. WHY ARE YOU VOTING FOR ME? Is it because herp derp 180 yamato? Because thats worse than what you guys wouldve lynched me for last game. Fucking sheep led by kickstart Let's make a comparison to this game: On January 21 2013 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote: So many people sheeping 'Fivetouch' Gonna be a good game huh. On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. FiveTouch./Everyone sheeping him. On January 21 2013 17:51 Oatsmaster wrote: Who is currently running for mayor other than the retards who want to lynch me? I probably don't have to explain the point I'm getting at here. There's anothing thing too - as town, Oatsmaster is suspicious of people right out the gate. In Chrono Trigger, Oatsmaster was suspicious of people immediately, and made the first real case of the game. In the just finished Newbie XXXV, again he was suspicious of Mocsta immediately and proceeded to make a case. In his mafia game he was not suspicious of anybody for a long time. Witness what he said: On December 05 2012 00:24 Oatsmaster wrote: I automatically assume everyone is town, then get scumreads. Anyway this is one of his first posts in another game, next to a post from this game: On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him On January 20 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont feel confident lynching JieXian off 2 posts... He has expressed delight in 2 players for mayor and hasnt expanded or anything. Regardless, Isnt it quick to vilify him so quickly? Seriously. I'm going to copy paste these again next to each other just in case you missed them. On November 25 2012 13:23 Oatsmaster wrote: I got a scum feeling from cheesecake with his first 2 posts, I suggest we lynch him On January 20 2013 21:21 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont feel confident lynching JieXian off 2 posts... He has expressed delight in 2 players for mayor and hasnt expanded or anything. Regardless, Isnt it quick to vilify him so quickly? There is a complete lack of suspicion in the early game here that is demonstrably present in the games he's played town. Usually Oatsmaster is the first to be suspicious of people, here he comes out the gate defending people. He was suspicious of nobody (except us retards who wanted to lynch him) until he agreed with austin on Stutters. Anyway, gonzaw. His prplhz stuff looks bad, although to be fair he's not the only one. The problem with gonzaw is that he should really know better. On January 21 2013 13:48 gonzaw wrote: I don't really agree with a prplhz lynch this D1 though. It seems like his normal play, and I don't think there's much to go on to be sure he's scum this game. He's not the paragon of townieness but I don't remember him being so in any town game from his (granted I only obsed games he played, I don't remember playing with him I think). There are better candidates out there. On January 22 2013 05:11 gonzaw wrote: Some of the reasoning behind his prplhz case seems like grasping at straws. The "he was against policy lynches before and now he wanted to 'policy lynch' chezinu" is not alignment indicative in my mind, few townies have the same exact thoughts in every game. I know I changed my mind about lots of things in different games, and I wouldn't expect that to be used either for or against me. Although it's true prplhz hasn't done much though. I don't know why he wants to vote me since the game started, but hasn't even voted me nor really shown. prplhz hasn't done much in contributing and seemed to be defending himself more, but for me his lynch right now is like a shot in the dark mostly because of that. I can see him flipping town, if he has to spend time defending himself instead of contributing. There's one other post I've had written down since I read it in Day 1, On January 21 2013 14:35 gonzaw wrote: Well, I had my "campaign" post premade as well + Show Spoiler + Well, actually I had another one premade, but before the game started I lost it so I had to make it again when the game started I didn't mention anything about trying to become mayor (and that I had a campaign already made) in pre-game, you know....in case I got scum and wouldn't run for mayor I have a feeling Vivax may have done something similar. There's this gut feeling that tells me scum Vivax wouldn't instantly post that campaign post as soon as the game started if he saw his "You are scum!" Pm in his inbox, and maybe likely wouldn't even post it at all (and just trash it). It's speculation based on what I would think scum Vivax would do, which may not be much but it doesn't mean what Toad said is "completely bullshit". I didn't like the bolded at all, casually suggesting he wouldn't have ran for mayor as mafia. I absolutely believe gonzaw would run for mayor as mafia, so this looks quite bad to me. In any case, I can't make a decision on these two until later. Although I still think Oatsmaster is more likely to flip mafia right now. | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote: lol Still under the spell of returning to mafia :D I only played the game for 72 hours so it barely counts What counts is that you were immediately suspicious of Mocsta in the game you just finished playing, and in general you were suspicious of many players Day 1. Which is the complete opposite of your attitude this game. | ||
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On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy. And yet in Chrono Trigger, you were suspicious and making cases immediately. You also ran for party leader despite it being your first game. I don't buy your shy story at all. Your lack of suspicions this game compared to how suspicious you are as town is striking. Plus the difference in wanting to lynch someone after two posts and saying it's quick to vilify someone after 2 posts is almost unbelievable. For bugs' eyes - you said it was unlikely that a mafia Oats would make a case on gonzaw, someone both prominent and attacking him. This was based on a general heuristic. A look at Oats' play in his own games reveals this to be false, however. In the game he rolled mafia, Oats attacked and made a case on the townplayer with the most credit who had made a case on him. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:06 Oatsmaster wrote: I ran for party leader cause blue roles be imba. I made one case on Clarity cause I thought it was a townie thing to do. I already told you, my play was so scummy that game, so should I continue to do it? Or change? Why do you keep ignoring the just-finished game where you were suspicious immediately, and of several players throughout the first day? You were shot for being so townie. It makes no sense at all that you claim to be 'shy' this game, when you didn't show that attitude in your other game with veterans, whether you had a blue role in that game or otherwise. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:15 Vivax wrote: @ FT Can you assume that Oats isn't scum for a moment and take a look at Toad? Thanks. You also posted a somewhat-read about gonzaw, but you aren't interested in hearing opinions about him?Or asking him questions? Where is gonzaw anyway? Why would I assume someone isn't mafia when they are likely to be mafia? There's absolutely no reason for me to be looking at Toad. It's completely irrelevant. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:32 Vivax wrote: FT is awful with his Oats tunnel. For sure not Palmar. Ok, your mayor who lynched you mafia on Day 1 is awful. Coming from the guy who apparently made some bullshit play to keep himself alive (?!) and then after the nightkills had to admit all his reads were wrong. Such a pro. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:38 Toadesstern wrote: do you think our early read on Vivax is wrong? Dude's annoying as it can get... Unfortunately it's still quite likely Vivax is town. | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:45 Vivax wrote: But you are lucky to play against this town Toad. For now. Curse this town with its almost complete lack of flaming and its killing of mafia Day 1. Such a bad town, curses! | ||
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On January 24 2013 00:52 Vivax wrote: Where's the analysis of gonzaw and Toad you promised? The irony of all your posts is that you basically refuse to comment on the player that I want to lynch (dude who killed mafia, just to remind you). This is about it: On January 23 2013 22:16 Vivax wrote: Oats, you have this annoying habit of defending people when they should be talking. Defend him with your vote and nothing else please, he's already secretive as of now. Why do you think you have the right to demand answers from others, when unwilling to provide opinions yourself on other cases? Or are you simply that much of an outrageous hypocrite? | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote: I already said Oats is town. I said it when I read he's your bodyguard, I said the same about debears. Nothing has changed about that, go read. I'm not talking about why I think he's town. That's his own job. This is also in answer to Mocsta. Then you should tell me why you think my points on him being mafia are incorrect. Dispute what I've said if you disagree with it. | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:09 Toadesstern wrote: want to talk about debears / oats? I'd like to hear your thoughts on what's more likely while trying to spam away terribads. How do you mean, what's more likely? | ||
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The problem is, you can't draw too much from it right now. I announced the bodyguards right at deadline. So: If 2 mafia are bodyguards and I'm shot, it outs 2 mafia If 0 mafia are bodyguards, they can't shoot me If 1 mafia is bodyguard, they still can't shoot me because they don't know the other bodyguard In every single scenario, mafia can't shoot me. | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:31 Toadesstern wrote: yeah that's kind of what I'm getting at as well and the reason I asked palmar about it. I just don't see a reason to sub in bodyguards if mafia comes to the conclusion "well, can't shoot that" unless of course for confusion. Especially with Palmar saying he'll out the BGs shortly before deadline they can't be afraid of not being able to find the bodyguards in time. Though you two guys ending up being bodyguards is rather funny. It's funny, and statistically quite unlikely that Oatsmaster became my bodyguard. Mafia putting a bodyguard in that I want to lynch doesn't seem too unlikely, though. | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:36 Toadesstern wrote: I know, that's why I said it's funny that those 2 became bodyguards. Debears looks good but Oats doesn't look good. At best he's a null, at worst he's a mafia for most people right now I guess. And with the reasoning I provided it does make him look townish. That's why I wanted to hear your take on what's more likely, mafia trying to trick us or this being some hilarious luck of ours. Good motive for mafia to do that then, hmm? | ||
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On January 24 2013 01:22 Toadesstern wrote: yeah but clearly either mafia DID sub in 1 or 2 guys and came to the very same conclusion OR they didn't sub in which makes both town. If they came to the same conclusion I don't see a reason to sub in to begin with. Might as well just leave 2 townie as BGs and hope to hit some on the road when mafia can't hit us anyways (without saccing 2 people themselves). Just because I was musing. If Oats is town: There is a roughly 1/10 chance of Oatsmaster being randomly selected as bodyguard. If Oats is mafia: Is there a greater than 1/10 chance that Oatsmaster is put in as bodyguard? I would contend yes. | ||
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Merely to illustrate that the fact he is bodyguard shouldn't suggest he is town. | ||
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On January 24 2013 02:12 austinmcc wrote: I'm still under the assumption that both our elected folk are town. If that's the case, scumoats as a BG gives him a little bit of cover when he was under pressure D1 and would probably be under pressure D2. Mafia risks outing scum BGs ONLY if they want to kill FT/Toad before the bodyguards have been outed as mafia, and they gain some towncred for the mafia BGs so long as those two are alive. I don't see a lot of downside to scum BGs, or a scum BG, in that case. If your bodyguards live, that's a day or two holding onto 2 KP, and maybe you think being a BG gives them a better chance to survive than not-BG. If town still kills them, well, by installing mafia BG(s), you made it easier to shoot the elected folk. Regardless of any other strategy involved, installing mafia BG(s) just makes it easier to get at the officials, whether they out the BGs or not. Yes, this is how I interpret it to, and you worded quite well. If, for example, mafia consider they can't save Oatsmaster from the lynch because the mayor who just lynched mafia wants him dead, mafia may as well use the opportunity to get rid of a bodyguard for free. Of course this doesn't have to be the case, but it's extremely plausible. | ||
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On January 24 2013 04:32 Vivax wrote: DAFUQ? Gonzaw you made this too easy for me. Hf in your qt. I sincerely hope you have smoked a large amount of wacky backy. yamato did not try to get himself elected - therefore if he were scum he wasn't pushing to become scum mayor. yamato voted for me - thus again not voting for mafia. | ||
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If he were scum, that's what he would be doing. It's so simple to comprehend. yamato is fairly clearly town because of his meta, not mafia. If you read the scumQT of his mafia game and the game itself, it's clear he both participated in really weird logic, and struggled much more to post than is the case here. Here he is often driving discussion forward, something he never did in his game as mafia. You need to take a break, Vivax. | ||
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Broodking - you are even lurkier than normal. Why are you not participating in town discussion in any way? | ||
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On January 24 2013 05:38 DearestSnot wrote: I'd tone down the arrogance if I were you, given that your reads so far this game have been proven to be awful. You have no position to talk like this, and I'd suggest that if you want to be respected and for your opinion to be valued that you take time to cool off. Otherwise, I'm just going to ignore you, since your recent posting has been nothing more than a cancer to town. I'm having doubts about Chezinu. Want to talk about it? Specifically, I can't reconcile why Chezinu would not vote for me or you when he claimed to have an interest in lynching prplhz. That's literally the only reason I have him down as town-he wanted to kill prplhz. However, his last minute vote switch from himself to austin/gonzaw seemed as if he wanted to accomplish something with it. Toad had 4 votes and gonzaw/austin had 3 each. Do you think it's possible that scum were trying to get someone other than Toad into that position? I believe at the time it was known that Toad was a mason, correct? I believe him when he says that he is busy due to school, but unlike last game, he has no reads that I can really recall. His only read on prplhz was based on his rule. Chezinu is interesting. Yes, we can take the prplhz thing for granted now. But we've had nothing since then. I know that Chezinu was masoned with two people and was more active in PMs than he was here. What we're missing from Chezinu, though, are his reads, no matter how he wants to deliver them. Because actually Chezinu's attack of prplhz could have come from a mafia Chez - it could have been a joking bus or an easy way to contribute; he didn't know that you and then me would run with it. In short, I understand your doubts and share them. I had him as leaning town previously, but his vote-switching plus lack of contributions have moved him back to null at best for me. There's also the issue that he may have been lying, although it's Chez and I may have misread the context or misinterpreted: Original Message From Chezinu: but I don't really. He's not that good at finding mafia. He could be mafia... but you can't judge him based on his reads. Well, even if he is mafia - he could persuade mafia not to kill me. I would kill him last. The last game I had thoughts that he was mafia, but in the end he was town.Good thing I didn't go after him for the sole reason of roleplay. The player that Chezinu is talking about, he has not played with before. I'm struggling to work out what to make of this. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:09 austinmcc wrote: Mocsta also hasn't roleplayed here... You sure you're not misinterpreting who he was talking about? I'm fairly sure he's referring to himself with regards to the roleplay bit. And he is almost certainly referring to Mocsta. I'm willing to hear what he has to say about it before I lynch him for it, however, especially when I'm pretty sure another player is mafia already. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:12 Vivax wrote: Why don't you start with FT and gonzaw saying that yamato didn't post a candidacy for mayor then? If you really think what yamato did was seriously run for mayor, you need your head examined. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:18 DearestSnot wrote: these PMs are from a masonry between you and Chezinu or someone else? Mocsta's not a smurf, right? I don't see him in the DB. I looked at Chezinu's most recent games, in LVII mocsta was not there. You sure about this? In a... useful turn of fortune, the two masons who masoned Chezinu on Day 1 masoned me today. Mocsta has just come up through the recent newbie games, so he's not a smurf. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:27 DearestSnot wrote: You believe they are both town? Did he say this to both of them? I am honestly down to kill him just based on this. The two masons are two of my stronger town-reads, yes. I'm still not killing him today until he answers for it. If Chezinu AFKs out until towards the end of Day 3 without explaining it, he can be lynched then. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:33 DearestSnot wrote: grush's mason is definitely the weirdest. He basically just masoned yamato and afked. Why yamato? I don't see why a scum team would give him a mason role and then use it but not really use it, though. It's confusing. I agree, none of it makes much sense to me either. And grush hasn't answered that very question I put to him whenever it was. | ||
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And before you complain at me that you're sure he's town, you've also been quite sure others have been town recently and been incorrect. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:37 DearestSnot wrote: well if we're lynching Oats then I'm not going to oppose it. I'm probably the only player who believes that he's town, so I'm willing to just let him die. There was a time not so long ago that I would probably have defended him from the lynch but it's just not worth it :p The problem with Oats is that he just lies or contradicts himself repeatedly. I can't reconcile it with him being town at all. Here's me pressuring him in obviously quite a serious manner: On January 23 2013 23:48 FiveTouch wrote: What counts is that you were immediately suspicious of Mocsta in the game you just finished playing, and in general you were suspicious of many players Day 1. Which is the complete opposite of your attitude this game. He defends himself from what I said: On January 23 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote: More players/better players. I can honestly say I thought that in the Newbie game I would be one of the town leaders Here, I shy. So the reason that he's not suspicious of players this game, completely unlike his most recent game, is that he's shy, he's taking a backseat. Except he's now asserting he's actually more confident: On January 24 2013 00:40 Oatsmaster wrote: Mocsta, I have become more confident to pressure people. Uhuh, so other than the start of the game, which was poor play which I already addressed, Wouldnt you say im more confident than in my Chrono game? And that him being shy is a joke: On January 24 2013 00:50 Oatsmaster wrote: Cant a guy try to make a joke and be cute about it? Apparently not. Anyway, gonna sleep now. Vivax, please think before you post. So him being shy is a joke. So, back to my original, valid point - why is Oatsmaster not suspicious of people this game and pointing fingers and making cases? It can't be because he's shy, because that was a joke. But then, in fact, there's no answer for it at all and the point stands. His whole play this game is marred by contradictions such as these, and his meta heavily supports him being mafia. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:54 Vivax wrote: And what makes you think he isn't a bad townie? The fact he plays nothing like this as town is a good one. You know, the lack of suspicion/aggression that I mention in the very post you're replying to, if you're able to read. | ||
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On January 24 2013 06:57 Vivax wrote: Why would mafia do that at that point? Don't say they do that all the time, it's dogmatic bullshit. It's not dogmatic, it's true. Mafia defend townies all the time for silly or non-existent reasons. Anyway, why did Oats do it? In his own words: On January 23 2013 10:22 Oatsmaster wrote: I feel like I started off the game pretty badly and I kinda felt like I had to wait for things to happen and forced the JX thing to look useful cause if I am suspected as town, it wastes everyone's time. Too bad it happened anyway. HOWEVER, once the thread started going, I could actually interact with people to determine intentions and alignment and reply to people who were questioning me. I am starting to feel more comfortable and confident about my play this game. He forced it to look useful. What alignment forces things to look useful? I wonder. | ||
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On January 24 2013 07:26 Vivax wrote: [b]Trust me for once, just this time, I only ask for one time, look at gonzaw, look at him long and hard and from the start please. Look at him feeling super confident that he might be scum, and give town your final verdict. This is quite simply the worst advice I have ever heard. Can you name previous instances where this 'style' of yours outed mafia and you got them lynched? Once will do. All I see so far is you tunnelling flipped townies. | ||
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On January 24 2013 07:39 Stutters695 wrote: @bugs (I think it was you  WhO asked about my reads)Currently I think annul is a good lynch. I think What'S been SaiD speaks for itself and his refusal to do anything speaks for his guilt. The other two people I' M Really eyeing are debears and Vivax. There is a post in dibbers I made last night that sums up What I think of him pretty well. But basically he promised a case on djo, Never delivered and has mostly talked policy since. Since he'S a BG though to  Push a lynch on him today would be dumb since if I'M wrong WE  just Lost a bg over a Bad read and it isn't sure enough for me to justify that. Vivax I' M Really unsure of. His case on Yamato is Really weak and a cursory glance through his filter in the last large game he played showed a higher level of logic in his reads compared to this game where he is more confrontational with people who disagree instead of logical.I had a post with more detailed reasoning typed up but my girlfriend called and I forgot yo submit it before I went up work so I'll have to post that at like 9-11 est when I get off. In terms of suspicion of I'd say currently debears, vivax, annul. Debears isn't really an option and vivax is actually posting so him living to read a bit longer is much more productive than annul. If annul isn't the target today I'll be pushing for vivax. Sorry for the TLPD stuff. Phone posting so it's hard to fix. The problem with all this is that you're posting in your own little world, with no attachment to what's going on in the thread at all. You say you're going to 'push' something, but that seems unlikely. My notes from Day 1 tell me you didn't once mention either prplhz or Oatsmaster, and this remains the case with Oatsmaster through today. It's quite concerning. | ||
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Broodking turned up at the last minute to avoid the modkill, and then interestingly completely failed to mention me when assession mayoral candidates: On January 22 2013 10:01 BroodKingEXE wrote: Based on a filter read of the top canidates I liked austin the best. I think he is a person most people would listen too, Toad/Chez/and yourself [note: gonzaw] are just too controversial. This is followed by posting a couple of half-arse reads and then departing the thread again, not to be seen. It basically looks like Broodking is doing the bare minimum to keep himself alive, and to look like he's doing something. I think there's a pretty good chance he is mafia. | ||
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On January 24 2013 09:24 Chezinu wrote: Oh I found the PM 5touch. I can see it was a honest mistake. The name of the person I was talking about was in the subject, "Re: SOMEBODIE'S NAME question" For town, there is a reason that he didn't post it in context. Ask the mason you got that pm from for the subject title. Hi Chezinu. I would quote more of your posts, but the gist of it is I will look into what you've told me. If I'm capable of understanding, of course. As to your question to me, I trust them both, although I understand why you trusted the one you did more than the other. On January 24 2013 08:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: Annul is obvscum, at the moment he isn't doing anything, but putting out weak scum reads and useless setup speculation. His posting style is that of a scum who knows he's in a bad spot. He says his D1 was non-existant, but I dont see a town directed change out of him. ##Vote: Annul Also, this guy is mafia. | ||
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On January 24 2013 09:05 Chezinu wrote: 5touch if you did get the logs, you should totally read my thread. There is a special number there. Its in bold. The logs sadly weren't saved. Although I've been told what the number denotes (he apparently remembers - a single feeling?), although I don't understand the significance right now. Apologies to the rest of the thread for speaking in riddles. | ||
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On January 24 2013 10:06 Stutters695 wrote: So what do you think the odds are of annul and bke being scum? Are we walking into a mislynch in your opinion? We're lynching Oatsmaster, I just haven't mobilised town yet. Further, I'd like to see what debears has to say about Oatsmaster that he's promising, he needs to provide this time. I would say Broodking has a higher chance of flipping mafia than annul. | ||
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On January 24 2013 10:09 Oatsmaster wrote: The reason why I put the 'shy' bullshit, was that I completely forgot why I defended JX. Also, I think that its not very accurate to use a meta read on me because I have only played 4 games, It was accurate and damning for Prp because he has played over 20 IIRC. Vivax, please stop shitting up the thread. It was related to why you were not suspicious / pushing suspicions / making attacks on people you perceive to be as mafia. But I no longer expect you to answer satisfactorily. Please do your best to contribute to town in a manner that isn't defending yourself. I know I look certain but I am always willing to reassess. | ||
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On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote: ok, here's the thing. I hesitated earlier to use this argument, but I think it's strong. First suppose Oats is scum. Because he's a BG, we know that if he's alive and FT or Toad die then Oats is outted. Thus at any point in the game we can safely lynch Oats if FT or Toad die. We only have a problem if we lynch a multitude of townies while FT and Toad survive and get into a multiple scum lylo situation. I don't see that as being very likely. If Oats is scum, mafia have to sacrifice one of their own in order to kill Toad or FT. As long as FT/Toad are alive we have a massive advantage. We have a jailer who can stop mafia KP in two different ways and a triple voter who is almost certainly town. If Oats is town, and we lynch him, then tonight debears and FT or Toad will be dead, almost certainly. We basically simply shoot ourselves in the foot for no gain. Even if Oats is mafia, we don't gain much by lynching him. He's a BG, if scum want to win the game in lylo they have to at some point out Oats. They can't feasibly win at lylo with FT alive because FT has 3 votes. So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members. So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now. Congratulations. You thought exactly what the mafia team thought, and you're stupid enough for it to work on you. Fuck me, bugs. | ||
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On January 24 2013 20:21 Oatsmaster wrote: 5touch, is your read on me based on meta solely? Cause it seems like that, and I think its unfair cause I think I played pretty well this game only to get mislynched cause I played differently. You said you played badly earlier. Anyway, I'm done with this shit. ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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On January 24 2013 20:48 Oatsmaster wrote: I said I played badly at the start, but got better as the game went on. Seriously, Get comfirmation bias out of your head. You've done nothing all game except kinda push gonzaw. You even forgot that you wanted to lynch Stutters, and you never mentioned him again after voting austin because he wanted to kill Stutters, even though Stutters for a long time did the lurking you were calling him scum for. | ||
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On January 24 2013 22:37 Chezinu wrote: He is my filter to that game since it has been coming up alot: You do realise that filter contained far more mafia reads than your filter this game, don't you Chez? | ||
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On January 24 2013 22:41 Chezinu wrote: I only had thraw and marv. Who else do you see? And yamato. Perhaps you're right though. Are you going to help us decipher the list you gave, then? I'm accustomed to seeing some pretty red and green. | ||
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On January 24 2013 10:23 Vivax wrote: Good joke, you brought yourself into that situation cause you don't even remember what you say yourself. At least your read on gonzaw is good. I'm asking questions no one else is. Go call that shitting up the thread when you read things grush, fuba, yamato etc. etc. etc. would probably have never written without my intervention. I just don't have an estimation of BKE yet, but FT feels confident in him being scum without actually asking him a question, that should already ring a bell. Enjoy FT posting "clean" reads he isn't checking with questions to his scumreads.Bah. Firstly, I seem to recall you berating bugs with some awesome mafia-read you had in an obsQT. I presume from your attitude here that you believe this read to not be legitimate, as you weren't able to question the mafia? Secondly: On January 24 2013 05:33 FiveTouch wrote: Stutters - I notice that you have either only defended yourself or commented on nothing relevant all game. We have no idea who you want to lynch. Given we're 4 game days in, why is this exactly? Broodking - you are even lurkier than normal. Why are you not participating in town discussion in any way? On January 24 2013 08:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: Annul is obvscum, at the moment he isn't doing anything, but putting out weak scum reads and useless setup speculation. His posting style is that of a scum who knows he's in a bad spot. He says his D1 was non-existant, but I dont see a town directed change out of him. ##Vote: Annul I did indeed ask him a question, and he never answered it. This proves that Broodking isn't reading the thread at all. He says this: On January 24 2013 14:45 BroodKingEXE wrote: Quite honestly I can understand why you think I am scum. The problem I am finding, in my readthrough of filters, I am feeling really disconnected with the thread, due to initial missing the onset of the game. If you have anything you want my opinion or read on you can ask me. I just aren't finding relevant topics for me to post on. Please ask away. Which may excuse him (it doesn't) from his non-play on Day 1, but it doesn't excuse him missing a question I asked him only 3 hours prior to him posting. | ||
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On January 24 2013 22:44 Toadesstern wrote: yeah but still unless you're a 100% certain there's no reason to lynch him unless you think the other reads (chez / BKE) are way worse. There's just no reason to lynch him right now if the chances for this problem to solve itself are growing every single cycle. Either MAFIA shoots him because he's town or they don't which means we keep on kicking people's asses. I get that it's most likely some kind of a mafia ploy but I don't think it's hurting us to play along. I am certain. | ||
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On January 24 2013 22:48 FiveTouch wrote: To Vivax: Firstly, I seem to recall you berating bugs with some awesome mafia-read you had in an obsQT. I presume from your attitude here that you believe this read to not be legitimate, as you weren't able to question the mafia? Secondly: I did indeed ask him a question, and he never answered it. This proves that Broodking isn't reading the thread at all. He says this: Which may excuse him (it doesn't) from his non-play on Day 1, but it doesn't excuse him missing a question I asked him only 3 hours prior to him posting. By way of edit, I should add that Broodking's last post there was aimed at another player, he never answered me (although it looks like that was an answer to me) | ||
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On January 24 2013 23:03 Toadesstern wrote: Okay I can get behind a oatsmaster lynch if you're that certain Palmar / whoever you are. I've got to say I'm pretty damn certain Chez isn't town though... as long as people shoot him / BKE (priority on Chez) as vigs, if we have some we should be fine. We need to get somewhere and I'm trusting you on this one... I really think Chez would be the better lynch for today though. ##vote Oats Toad, could you please tell me why you're sure Chezinu isn't town? I don't have anywhere near that confidence. | ||
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On January 24 2013 23:11 Oatsmaster wrote: 1. How is that a 180? How is being town related to playing badly? In the Newbie game, you were shutting down disscussion and I posted that almost a day into the game. Please don't pretend you just thought I was playing badly but town. That's just nonsense: On January 21 2013 11:34 Oatsmaster wrote: So you made up your mind that town was useless after 12 hours? Why didnt you push to be mayor before? Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town? Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? On January 21 2013 11:58 Oatsmaster wrote: What does 5touch have done to deserve the mayorial position? Is it because all of you agree with his reads? Or think he is town? Cause all I see in his filter is a lot of 1 liners and not much else. These clearly indicate you didn't think I was town, not that I was playing badly and town. In the first quote, it's amusing you're accusing me of wanting to manipulate town, yet in the next sentence you allude to OTHER town (admitting I am town). | ||
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On January 24 2013 23:36 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok 5touch, these 2 statments are mutually exclusive [b] Cause you wanted to see how you could manipulate town?[b] Scum Or cause you are lazy and wanted other town to have the responsibility? Town. Also, I think being lazy is bad play cause you are lazy So you were asking... whether I was mafia or town? What did you expect me to answer, or was it merely rhetorical? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On January 22 2013 01:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok with Austin's reappearance, I am inclined to vote for him as mayor. Why? Because I feel that he has put in more effort into finding scum than 5touch and that he is willing to be transparent and all the things various people have said that the mayor be. He also stood up to lurky sandro early about JX when he couldve ignored the incident. That is one of the reasons I have a town tell on him. I also agree with his lynch target now that I read his reasoning and Stutter's filter. Stutter's posted 4 posts and just disappeared, I feel that as a town player, his start wouldve been continued through the thread but it was not to be which makes me think that he is putting up a front of activity at the start to allay all suspicions then lurking his way through the rest of the game. Vote: Austinmcc On January 22 2013 15:44 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok well Im thinking that at least one of the 4 mayor candidates yesterday is scum. And I think that the scum is Gonzaw. + Show Spoiler + On January 20 2013 15:36 gonzaw wrote: I sincerely can't understand what Axle is posting :/ I could figure out he questioning Vivax on his campaign initially, and wanted to vote Chezinu, but I have no idea what "I sheep Toad, even if i needed to find all my own reasons" means I also kind of skimmed/ignored parts of his last post since I didn't understand a thing. Seemed pretty funny in pre-game...not so much now. Then never mentions Axle again. On January 21 2013 05:43 gonzaw wrote: I'm not enjoying this "aggressiveness" you are showing Vivax, seems too needlessly provocative. Although you running for mayor in the first place (while being considered "not-vet" by most of us) doesn't really seem like something you'd do as scum, and maybe this "aggressiveness" stuff just means you are getting over-excited or something. Meh, certainly not enough to make any call other than leaning slightly town on you (gut feeling) so I'll let that pass. This reads as, Scummy, not scummy, meh I dont know. And then again, never questions Vivax at all. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 05:48 gonzaw wrote: Well.........*sigh* I kind of feel this is "obvious scum sandroba", but obviously until he actually has the time to do something useful to town we can't do much about it :/ What kind of makes me "mad" about the "obvious scum vets" in games, is how people always let them be. Like, this happened with scum Foolishness in like 2 consecutive games where he lived until D5 or something. Either people ignore them, or say "meh, he could be town and thus could be an asset". These kind of people are so "obvious" scum (in a matter of speaking of course) when they roll scum and nobody does anything about it :/ I'd said sandro is one of those (maybe Palmar as well, although slightly less), based on the games I've obsed with him being scum (and Liar Game of course, where he lived...wait for it...until D5). I get the "if he's actually town he can be an asset" idea many people have.....but if he's just screaming scum at your face you can't try bullshitting your way out of that. Mentions Sandro and that he might be scum and AGAIN doesnt pressure him or nothing, not like you would do with your scum reads. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 05:51 gonzaw wrote: Hmm, it seems funny to me that SO many people "voted" in this thread, yet there are like only 3 votes in the voting thread :/ This applies to Clarity, JieXian and others who put "##Vote: xxx" in here. Is it that hard to find the Voting thread in the main page? Random post that doesnt help anyone and is fluff but he phrases it like it is alignment indicative whether people vote in the Voting thread. Throwing suspicion subtly. + Show Spoiler + On January 21 2013 13:52 gonzaw wrote: Djoref, what do you think of Stutters? I didn't really notice you mentioning him that much. Also, do you think Clarity has more chances of flipping scum than Oats or Stutters or maybe even sandro, etc? On January 21 2013 14:03 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP: Oh well nevermind. Speaking of which Mocsta, what do you think of Stutters and Clarity? I don't remember you mentioning them in your filter. Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch. + Show Spoiler + On January 22 2013 10:12 gonzaw wrote: Oh shit lol I stand corrected. Doesnt post about what the prp flip means to the reads that he has on the mayor and the people who pushed his lynch. Also, seems weird for a townie post. Therefore, out of the runners, I think that GONZAW is scum. On January 22 2013 23:41 Oatsmaster wrote: Stutters was scum because: My d1 reads are almost always wrong, so I'm not nearly as active. This post seems scummy to me because its not a reason not to be active. Day 1 reactions are good because its a time where you can see who is proactive and who isnt. Toads style feels much more like my own and I think that will help us analyze why he would do whatever he does after becoming mayor. I also see this as subtly buddying Toad, same style = same alignment? Especially since its wrong in the sense that Toad outrightly spammed day 1 and stutters stood back and answered questions and defended himself. His whole filter just generally seems like he is on the back foot, reacting to stuff, rather than creating content and trying to find scum. On January 24 2013 21:08 Oatsmaster wrote: 5touch, stutters has only been here in bursts, I cant pressure him or anything. I did mention stutters earlier day 2/ I think Gonzaw is scum? What do you expect me to do? For those who are mathematically challenged, that's 4 posts. Further, he never follows up on his Stutters read, despite the fact Stutters has been in the thread. In fact, he only mentions him again when prodded to by others. | ||
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Hello Mr. Misrepresentation. That quote was regarding your advice to read through someone's filter certain they were mafia, and then decide whether they were mafia or not. And it was indeed the worst advice I have ever heard. | ||
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There's absolutely no reason to think I'm mafia; apparently I may have made the wrong call between Oatsmaster and gonzaw, and that's all there is to it. | ||
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On January 25 2013 01:39 Vivax wrote: Austin, you're derp, I already wrote gonzaw used his powers. He's the guy who used the extra shot N1 and today he's been masoning. Don't believe FT is town just cause of the D1 lynch. People elected him to kill prplhz, so that's what he would do, along with getting massive cred. Please provide evidence for this assertion. | ||
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On January 25 2013 01:45 Vivax wrote: Yeah, just wait for the guy masoned by gonzaw. Are you claiming your Detective check said he was masoning on Day 2? | ||
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On January 25 2013 01:47 Vivax wrote: I don't know if gonzaw was mason today or yesterday night, that's what I ended up believing. I asked the host about that and a few bunch other things but he's been ignoring all my questions this game. Given how scum is riding on that point it was rather yesterday night I guess. Please just be plain - the check told you he was Mafia JOAT, that's what you claimed, right? And it also told you he both shot last night and used his mason power at some stage? | ||
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Vivax is assuming it was gonzaw's extra shot on Night 1, but doesn't actually have confirmation. Is this correct, Vivax? | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:01 Vivax wrote: I suppose gonzaw shot N1, there are no mafia vigilantes. I don't have confirmation on that, it's a theory I have cause he is the jack. Ok, but this means he has other powers to use. You wouldn't have received back mason unless he was one of the mafia's permanent masons, I think. | ||
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##Vote: gonzaw | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:16 Vivax wrote: Notice how FT still didn't post his masons despite my ultimatum. But he immediately posted against me after the claim. I have absolutely no reason to reveal my masons to you. | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:24 Vivax wrote: Austin, go watch some kitten pictures, you're as threatening for scum as a vet vegan fart. Why are you striving to make this game less enjoyable to play for every single other player in the game, whether town or mafia? Single-handedly you are ruining town atmosphere and it's horrible to watch. Please stop it. | ||
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On January 25 2013 02:29 Vivax wrote: Given your behaviour this game you don't have the right to say that. But it's rather excusable cause you are mafia. I don't think you will find a single player in the game, apart from you, who will say they haven't enjoyed playing with me so far. On the other hand, I don't think a single player in the game would say they are enjoying playing with you so far. If they can, they can feel free to speak up. | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:22 Vivax wrote: My very first post was everything you needed. I wrote everything you wanted to know in the picture. If you're too stupid or disruptive to get that everything you wanted was there from the beginning, then don't blame it on me. If anything you have been fooled by the OPs description, you trying to paint me bad based on other people's mistakes and your own is...self-explanatory. I made a mistake in thinking that gonzaw had two roles. I rather thought he was mason for a cycle. But that mistake is productive. It revealed that people immediately asking questions about that knew what was up and poked it. Mainly cause they hoped I would do some mistake to get me lynched or was fakeclaiming. Vivax, please think for a minute. Mafia would most likely presume your claim was legitimate, and they would know you are town (given you are). Therefore they would also know that your claim wouldn't have holes and you would be able to explain it. It's far more likely town would be confused by your claim given you were assuming things that weren't certain. | ||
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On January 25 2013 03:42 gonzaw wrote: Okay, it may be hard to convince you people I'm not scum, specially with me being kind of lazy these past few days and all. I'll try to spend my time reading Vivax and figure out if he's scum fakeclaiming or if there's a mafia framer out there. I take it this will be better for town later. I'm fairly sure "being lazy" was not the answer you gave me yesterday when I asked you why you weren't as much a central figure as I had expected. | ||
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On January 25 2013 04:16 DearestSnot wrote: I've been "oddly silent" because I was asleep until like 3-4 hours ago, then went to class. I don't find it that likely that debears is scum. Certainly possible but it doesn't really matter, given that if he is scum then he's pigeonholed by virtue of being a BG. There are better targets than him out there, notably Chezinu. Perhaps I was wrong about Oats and took the wrong side in Oats/gonzaw, but I'm still convinced BKE is mafia. | ||
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This would mean that mafia valued gonzaw very highly, and planned for him to be around a while, giving him two roles. It would make sense that they built their plan of action around him. So going back to Day 1 will be quite interesting. | ||
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On January 25 2013 04:25 Vivax wrote: FT, how can you be so sure someone is mafia off so few posts? @ stutters Look at it this way: Oats, the probable town, immediately believed my claim cause of the timing. Toad, FT and yamato attacked it like crazy. Austin went a little less hyped about it, but he joined in doing so. Just saying, man, just saying...subjective you know. I lynched prplhz off very few posts as well, remember. Vivax, riddle me this - I was pushing Oats and prplhz hard all through Day 1. Given gonzaw looks set to flip mafia, this obviously makes Oats look more likely town. Towards the end of Day 1 I had sandroba urging me to lynch Oatsmaster, and not prplhz. Yet I chose prplhz. Why? | ||
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This was indeed the answer I was looking for. Possibly. Not quite, but I'll roll with it. | ||
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On the other hand, gonzaw coming back to the thread, admitting he's been pretty lazy, and leaving again - this doesn't look so good for him. | ||
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On January 25 2013 06:11 Vivax wrote: @ austinmcc I think you having doubts about this stuff makes you look a little better. I don't think scum would doubt that gonzaw is scum at this point. What you still utterly fail at is being incredibly gullible in case you're town and letting marv and Toad get away with withholding their information regarding other masons and alleged blue powerroles, but you feel the need to quote annul and his legitimate question without actually pursuing the information that is not being disclosed and that makes you look rather worse. Care to answer my question, Vivax? On January 25 2013 05:08 FiveTouch wrote: I lynched prplhz off very few posts as well, remember. Vivax, riddle me this - I was pushing Oats and prplhz hard all through Day 1. Given gonzaw looks set to flip mafia, this obviously makes Oats look more likely town. Towards the end of Day 1 I had sandroba urging me to lynch Oatsmaster, and not prplhz. Yet I chose prplhz. Why? | ||
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What has gonzaw done in the meanwhile? | ||
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On January 25 2013 08:35 austinmcc wrote: absolutely Dick all. He did do stuff in aperture 2 and acant believe mini when he was town and attacked. But...why didn't he mason anyone? I don't think he is getting lynched for his response here, nobody is pulling up past games and arguing meta. This is a lynch based.on a check that popped out a role which doesn't make sense to me here. You stated fairly specifically earlier that you do worse with setup stuff and not actual finding of mafia. I agree with you that a lack of mason partner(s) for gonzaw is odd. But has his reaction to Vivax's claim been mafia or town? From a standpoint that doesn't include roles? It's possible he was framed, or a miller, but probably not. Of course if we're talking about probabilities, I got mindfucked by Oats being a bodyguard, but there we go. | ||
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On January 25 2013 08:38 mkfuba07 wrote: What do you think about what I've said? I can't answer why he didn't use his mason power. I'm neither scum nor a mason. Nor have I ever been scum nor a mason. But I've thought it through, and unless he is another miller AND millers get randomized roles, I think him being scum is the most likely situation. Correct, it is more likely. I asked the same question about millers as you did in PMs shortly after Vivax's claim, and I'm actually quite annoyed that neither of the hosts have replied to me by now, or to your question in the thread. | ||
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On January 25 2013 10:58 yamato77 wrote: I can't imagine why anyone is taking Vivax's reads even slightly seriously when even a cursory check of my filter reveals that he is flat out lying on some things and wildly misinterpreting others to fit his biased view of my play this game. This goes for anyone he is "suspicious" of, by the way, which makes me feel like he's being intentionally stupid. If he's town he's a far worse player than I was led to believe. It's difficult for me to make sense of anything he is doing this game. I wish he could just be offed. :/ Then why are you humouring him and talking about that, rather than digesting the new information that we have on everyone else? | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:05 austinmcc wrote: Back. And wrong, it looks like. prplhz was also on you at the end of voting. He may have wanted to stick and hope to get you to lynch someone else, since you didn't announce until right at deadline, but he + any scumbuddy could have moved gonzaw. It's quite confusing, because it seems like it should have been quite possible to get gonzaw into second, yet they didn't. It suggests a lack of organisation, at least. | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:36 DearestSnot wrote: perhaps prplhz not voting for gonzaw does indicate disorganization, but bigger than that, it indicates fear. prplhz clearly feared outting gonzaw as scum if he voted him because he was guaranteed to be dead. I wouldn't have risked it if I were scum in that situation. However I think it's pretty likely Chezinu is mafia for that reason, since he wasn't under suspicion. No one would suspect him voting gonzaw if he just passed it off as trolling. The problem is it didn't make gonzaw sheriff, and actually with how late it was it had almost 0% chance of making him sheriff. Why make the vote at all? | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:43 DearestSnot wrote: that's not true, Chezinu himself admitted he wanted to get gonzaw elected over Toad. Also he simply needed 1 vote. If there was some kind of communication problem (not that unlikely) then there might have been a second scum (maybe even BKE) who was supposed to vote gonzaw but didn't. No one would really even know. So what? He voted right at the last minute. Were 2 mafia really supposed to vote for gonzaw right at the deadline? Simply from what we've seen so far this game that seems incredibly unlikely. Two people voting for a candidate right at the last minute seems an extremely sketchy idea. Would you advocate it as mafia, or think it ridiculous and stupid? | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:53 DearestSnot wrote: To prevent a town mason from being put into the sheriff position, and to get one of my own buddies into sheriff? Hell yeah, I'd do it. gonzaw is the perfect person as scum to be in that position, too. He can't get shot-that's my biggest fear as that kind of player, he can't get checked, my second biggest fear as that kind of player (and you can make a secondary player the godfather if you have that option) and being lynched is pretty hard given that you can simply ride town to victory on your activity. I don't think most people understand how valuable denying town that position and taking it as scum actually is. As a good scum player I think gonzaw recognized that. And I don't think you understand quite how amazingly attention-grabbing it is, having two people vote right at the last minute to get someone into an elected role... and the fact it didn't happen suggests that wasn't their (bad) plan. I'm certainly not saying this makes Chezinu town - indeed the further the game goes the likelier it is he is mafia - but it's not going to be that last-minute vote why, probably. Actually I sort of find it worse the way he jumped his vote around before arriving there. | ||
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On January 25 2013 11:58 DearestSnot wrote: no, look. His argument was that he was simply trolling around. Why then, would he say that he wanted to get gonzaw elected over Toad? If he was simply trolling around why would he care? He certainly didn't seem to have a scumread on Toad; he doesn't have any fucking reads at all! I think we're arguing over semantics and what we personally find to be particularly telling things. I'm not pitching an argument that Chez is in any way townie for it, here. Speaking of other things - did you find anything out when you looked into annul? I drew some of my own conclusions but I'm curious what yours are. | ||
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On January 25 2013 12:05 Adam4167 wrote: Interesting welcome. I have read exactly none of this game, have I subbed into a train wreck? You'll have to be patient while I catch up 120 pages. Actually, no. We've killed two mafia in a row and it's remarkably civil, barring an exception or two. | ||
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On January 25 2013 12:19 DearestSnot wrote: as for annul (sorry, I neglected to respond to that) I still am quite unsure how to read him, but I'm leaning town on him for an almost singular reason. Basically when gonzaw was outted as a mason he took the time to ask if anyone had been masoned by gonzaw. I do not think that as scum in that position he would have done that. He had been afk for quite a while already up to that point, why bother trying to clear up the situation? He could have simply continued doing what he had already been doing. Perhaps this is a minor point, and he really hasn't done anything else, but I somehow don't feel like annul is actually scum. I agree with this, for slightly different reasons. I'm willing to bet he's town at this stage. | ||
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Something interesting I noticed: [quote] Hide nested quote - Original Message From yamato77: You masoned me and have yet to PM me. What are your reads so far for the game? grush: Sorry I thought the host would reply and confirm it or something. I think your town because of your posts, and thats why I masoned you. I think gonzaw is townie, good posts. I don't like vivax. Crazy de-lurk by mkfuba I would get behind a chezinu mayor spot.[/quote] Why does grush call gonzaw townie, but vote Chezinu for mayor? Both Chezinu and Axle swapped off onto gonzaw from Chez later, why did grush not do so? the fact that he was given mason seems really weird, but perhaps it's one of those "is this too dumb to be scum?" kind of moments where thinking about it in that fashion really doesn't accomplish anything. [/QUOTE You always try to rationalise grush (and players like him) too much | ||
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On January 25 2013 12:36 DearestSnot wrote: Something interesting I noticed: Why does grush call gonzaw townie, but vote Chezinu for mayor? Both Chezinu and Axle swapped off onto gonzaw from Chez later, why did grush not do so? the fact that he was given mason seems really weird, but perhaps it's one of those "is this too dumb to be scum?" kind of moments where thinking about it in that fashion really doesn't accomplish anything. You always try to rationalise grush (and players like him) too much | ||
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The answer to your question is obvious enough. | ||
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For what it's worth, my two comments on him in my notes read, from Day 1: "even less content than usual. but voted me wanting to kill prplhz. could easily have kept his vote on austin or elsewhere." and Day 2: "nothing i wouldn't expect him to do as town" It's possible that I'm wrong on him, but there's a couple of other players I'd look at first. | ||
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On January 25 2013 22:15 Toadesstern wrote: palmar / marv. I'm 90% certain both BKE and Chez are mafia. If you had to choose, which one would you choose? Currently BKE, simply because I've spent more time on him, and I've not spent a long time analysing Chezinu yet. Chezinu seems to be suggesting bugs is mafia - mommy dearest - despite the fact he led me towards prplhz, and also towards gonzaw (that bodyguard thing affected me really badly - 10% chance of town Oats being bodyguard reinforced my tunnel, very annoyingly). Chezinu is also still pushing Oatsmaster despite what happened here. None of it makes sense. As for BKE: On January 24 2013 08:29 BroodKingEXE wrote: Annul is obvscum, at the moment he isn't doing anything, but putting out weak scum reads and useless setup speculation. His posting style is that of a scum who knows he's in a bad spot. He says his D1 was non-existant, but I dont see a town directed change out of him. ##Vote: Annul On January 24 2013 14:45 BroodKingEXE wrote: Quite honestly I can understand why you think I am scum. The problem I am finding, in my readthrough of filters, I am feeling really disconnected with the thread, due to initial missing the onset of the game. If you have anything you want my opinion or read on you can ask me. I just aren't finding relevant topics for me to post on. Please ask away. There are a couple of things to note here. BKE claims to be disconnected from the thread, has missed a lot of the game, didn't respond to my question etc - yet he was confident enough to declare annul clearly mafia. This makes no sense. As a lost townie, he should be asking questions, not bang-on certain on a read. His random certainty on annul is really out of place. As to what I've bolded - he's inviting questions, that's all very well. But as a townie struggling (apparently), where are his questions to other people? Where is he trying to figure anything out? In his entire filter, he asks one vaguely irrelevant question. There is literally no attempt to get more information from anyone, he's not curious about anybody. | ||
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On January 25 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote: → By not stating clearly that he is going to 100 % jail BKE, Toad is creating problems for an eventual medic who has to pick someone to protect. He says he considers me as option for a jail, but tells the medics they should only protect Bugs. That is a contradiction in mindset. He should disregard me completely as a jail target in that case and rather be coinflipping between BKE and Bugs, right? → By not stating clearly that he's 100 % jailing BKE, Toad shows that he doesn't think his unblockable DT check is the best play in any case. Force him to jail BKE or you won't know if he's scum tomorrow. → FT just posted reasons for BKE to be scum without saying if we should jail him and thus check him or lynch him tomorrow. He ignored my question so far. Because none of this should really being talked about at all. Toad made it quite clear significantly earlier in the thread that he was aware jailing a mafia in this situation would prevent a KP. Therefore he knows what has to be done. I know how Toad thinks and what he's been doing tonight, and I won't say any more about it right now. → Toad protected Bugs letting Sandro die, I still don't know why he did that. He just got upset when I told him that without expanding on his reasons saying "You say I'm bad while I'm trying to save lives". I just don't see town Toad risking the "best town player" (by his own words) to get killed. Scum hit all right targets N1. Decide for yourself if that's a coincidence and just luck or if they knew what was up. Ockham's razor tells a story. What you're missing here is that sandroba urged Toad repeatedly not to jail him. Collectively it wasn't a good decision, but it wasn't simply a Toad decision. Toad would listen to sandroba in this situation. | ||
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On January 26 2013 00:09 Toadesstern wrote: gonna be honest. Never thought about tossing a coin and already sent in "jail BKE" 10 hours ago... I just need the medic to listen to me and the medic knows what I'm doing so again: medic listen to everything I say, it is of utmost importance tonight that you do exactly as I say and not protect vivax. Not even kidding. Why are you posting this? This is terrible. Come on Toad. | ||
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On January 26 2013 01:35 Toadesstern wrote: yeah I really thought about that as well and think i might be better of jailing Chez but I don't want to change everything now that I told vigs I'm jailing BKE and medics to protect you and bodyguards... what part of "don't mention it again" did you not comprehend? Stop it! | ||
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On January 26 2013 01:37 yamato77 wrote: Adam, I am glad you've come out with a mafia read on Austin. I agree, he is fairly sketchy at times and fluffy at others. What concerns me about him is that he seemed perfectly willing to play along with Vivax and not lynch the mafia with a red check on him, which is highly suspicious to me, especially after the flip. I think Austin deserves a fair amount of scrutiny, and I am going to make sure that happens in the coming days. While you may find Axle suspicious, I find his play this game fairly consistent with that if his town game in the one I played with him. He isn't overly involved in the conversation town is having, he comes in with his own take on something and basically ignores everything else. I don't see much reason to have a mafia read on him at this point in the game. As for BKE, I want to ask this question to everyone: Who thinks he's not a good lynch tomorrow? There are two good reasons that Axle could be mafia. Firstly, his significant drop-off in activity. Secondly, the mayoral candidates he supported on Day 1 were firstly Chezinu, and then gonzaw. This is suspicious by itself. | ||
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On January 26 2013 01:44 yamato77 wrote: Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, I'm not sure if town Axle would be involved in the game enough to vote for a mayor in a manner which is indicative about his alignment. His activity dropping off is also consistent with his town game, tbh, so I'm not worried about him. It's like you guys' read on Chezinu, there's really not much to say either way. His activity in the town-game never dropped off in the middle of the game for a sustained period like it has here. And "I'm not sure he's aware to do all these scummy things" isn't a good defence for anybody. The fact is, those were his votes. He voted for the mafia in the running for Sheriff quite late in the day. This is very suspicious. | ||
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On January 26 2013 01:47 DearestSnot wrote: Yeah, what's up? Also @Vivax, I never asked Chezinu about being masoned. One of my masons provided me with an interesting thought. Both my masons, who I'm reasonably confident are town (and even more confident that one must be town) were masoned with Chezinu Day 1. Given no-one knew they were masoned with Chezinu before I found out Day 2, why did mafia not take the opportunity to eliminate them, or at least one of them? | ||
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On January 26 2013 01:56 DearestSnot wrote: That's a good question, but I'm not sure how likely it is that it makes Chez town. You're sure both masons are town? 1.You have all the logs? 2.Perhaps they left them alive to allow gonzaw the opportunity to mason someone without being suspected? 3.Personally if I were mafia and speaking to two masons I'd leave them alive so that the next day they can mason someone else and tell them I'm town. 1. I have the logs, and I will provide them if/when necessary. 2. I had this thought too... but as far as we know, gonzaw didn't mason anybody, right? So what gives? 3. Possibly valid. I think both masons came into the day leaning town on Chezinu from their conversations. They are two of my stronger town-reads, the masons. The thought just makes me uncomfortable. Why not kill a town mason over JieXian/Djodref?! | ||
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On January 26 2013 02:06 DearestSnot wrote: Nah I think it makes sense. If Chezinu spent that much time in PMs convincing them that he was town, shooting them is a waste. They would not be a threat to him. I don't understand the JX and Djo kills either, but perhaps they were blue sniping or trying to take out people they knew would not be protected. Who knows. Ok, this makes some sense. And the fact I guess that masons aren't confirmed town in any case. Also, the shots on JieXian and/or Djodref were weird whether they had town masons to shoot at or not. | ||
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On January 26 2013 02:49 Toadesstern wrote: I said I want to kill one out of BKE - Chez - gonzaw - oats, priority on BKE. So please shut up or stop telling lies. Again, I'll be REALLY mad if you screw up @medic. What part of "shut up talking about this" didn't you understand, Toad? It was an extremely simple direction. | ||
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On January 26 2013 02:56 annul wrote: okay, so you both have top 3 of: Chez, BKE mkfuba fivetouch? As bugs said, read our posts. BKE .... Chez ..................... Axlegreaser is my current best guess. I think fuba is probably town. | ||
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On January 26 2013 03:06 Vivax wrote: If I ever see you use Ockham's razor I will slap you in the face, cause you clearly aren't using it in this game. Sandro killed AND roleblocked? Mafia teams often kill and roleblock the same person. I've done so plenty of times in the past. | ||
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On January 26 2013 03:27 debears wrote: K tnx 5touch have you figured out who the mason talking to me is? I have a fair idea, although I'm not certain. | ||
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On January 26 2013 03:42 debears wrote: Do you know of a fourth mason? My source tells me there is Other than gonzaw I know of 4 possible masons, although I'm not sure the 4th is necessarily a mason. I don't quite understand how your mason would know this, however. | ||
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On January 26 2013 08:35 Vivax wrote: Just to emphasize what yamato posted IN CONSECUTIVE POSTS: Come on, concrete wall, break!Break! The second one was what I said, Vivax... | ||
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I've just been spending some time in Axle's filter this evening, and it was unsurprisingly inconclusive. He apparently voted for gonzaw on day 1, not because he thought he was town, but because he thought he would get a read on him in future days because he was 'wordy'. When asked by bugs about gonzaw, he did say his reaction to the NKs was possibly a scumslip, although he never pursued it (although I don't know if I would expect him to anyway). I think I need to look elsewhere, someone I'm leaning town on must be mafia. | ||
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On January 26 2013 10:17 Vivax wrote: Any medic claims due to saved players? If not, the direction is clear. We're lynching BKE. What were your results tonight? | ||
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On January 26 2013 10:20 Toadesstern wrote: okay do I yell at the medic in mason-talk or do I mason FT? What good will yelling do? Please mason me. Vivax, what were your results? | ||
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In any case ##Vote: BKE ##Vote: Chezinu | ||
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On January 26 2013 22:40 Toadesstern wrote: he's the 4th most awesome guy in this game. Bugs and me were more awesome, and someone else I can't tell you, right after those 3 games FT. But on the point: No it's because we know chez and BKE are mafia... Oh, Toad. No, Toad. | ||
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On January 26 2013 22:39 Vivax wrote: I'm not thinking about that. I'm thinking why you say 5th when we only know 3 so far. I'm working under the assumption that Chezinu is mafia. This isn't tricky to work out in the slightest. | ||
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On January 26 2013 22:42 Toadesstern wrote: sry dude, you won't get that #3 position on awesomeness-scala with that attitude! I hope scala is an english word as well because I have no idea what would be the correct word if it's not. On the presumption BKE flips mafia, I'm already in at #2 ^^ | ||
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On January 26 2013 22:46 Toadesstern wrote: I was the guy who wanted to lynch BKE over oats yesterday and bugs as well. You're not getting better than #3 once BKE flips red. Yeah, you wanted to lynch him because I called him out as mafia and you agreed. Don't blame me for not being able to get off my amazing Oats tunnel! Well actually, yeah you can blame me for that one | ||
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On January 26 2013 22:47 Vivax wrote: Sorry If I'm just being annoying but...That makes no sense. You say . That means you would be willing to lynch someone else besides Chez if you figure him out as mafia. 1. prplhz 2. gonzaw 3. BKE 4. Chezinu (annul mad hatter) 5. ??? annul doesn't want to lynch Chezinu because he has a bomb on him. So if we can be certain on 5., we can lynch 3 + 5. Otherwise we lynch 3+4. | ||
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On January 27 2013 02:08 debears wrote: 5touch Were you contacted by the mason? Indeed I was. A bit of a turnup for the books. What is your opinion from your conversations? Would it be a good idea for you to publish them? On January 27 2013 02:54 BroodKingEXE wrote: This is really unfortunate. Bad luck this week with business. I'm Mad Hatter, I'm like 90% sure I'm not going to be able to make it past the next day, so it would be better if a vig shot me tonight and I put my bomb on someone. Who is your bomb on currently? | ||
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I suggest you look at other people than Axle. | ||
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).I'm being a little bit cryptic, but actually entirely because of this BKE/Chezinu are our best lynches today. There is no lynching #5 today, I don't think. | ||
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On January 27 2013 04:37 Stutters695 wrote: FT do you believe BKEs claim? Not really, it reads to me as "please don't lynch me today". He's asking to be vigid (?) even though there is no evidence we have a vigilante whatsoever. But I'd like to know who he claims he has his bomb on, at least. | ||
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On January 27 2013 04:42 Mocsta wrote: (2) Annul vs Chez I thought the whole point of mad hatter was to become a thread influence and risk being shot; thus taking out someone... if Annul play is aimed at being a thread influence, I might as well give up on playing mafia cos I must be the retard.. (This is my assumption on how to play mad hatter, I am happy to be corrected on this) This is all based on the assumption that people are trying their hardest or playing optimally. Unfortunately this isn't the case (as with almost all mafia games). If we were lynching on the basis of townies basically not even trying to establish themselves as town, we'd have too many people to lynch. | ||
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On January 27 2013 05:13 Chezinu wrote: Seems both town and mafia think they have won this game. What makes you think mafia think they've won this game? | ||
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On January 27 2013 05:14 Mocsta wrote: I need the Grush (town) heuristics dumbed down for a non-vet. I dont get why him contacting one person and never again as indicative of town play; nor why it rules him out being scum? Yes, as scum it would be poor play; but why can't that be the intention? Hes signfiicantly more active in the ongoing Dessert mafia, why is he excused in this game from exhibiting signs of life? Im trying to improve, so would really like an answer to this please (whether here or in obs qt), as I am definitely missing a piece of the puzzle. grush probably needs talking to and engaging with tomorrow. That said, I've never seen him lie about Starsenses, and I don't believe he'd sabotage his future towngames to lie about it here. Also he tends to be more trolly or disruptive as mafia (LVI I think?) and he's not here. | ||
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On January 27 2013 07:00 Vivax wrote: I'm not voting you cause of Annul's bomb and cause it's stupid to assume you could be scum based on what we have seen so far. Fairly sure you said that to me about BKE repeatedly as well, and now you want to kill him. Funny how it works, isn't it? | ||
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On January 27 2013 07:12 annul wrote: to be fair it is possible (albeit HIGHLY improbable) that the mafia double stacked WBG in order to "confirm" BKE's redness If this is the case, the medic should absolutely claim to stop us lynching a townie. But it's almost certainly not the case. | ||
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On January 27 2013 07:10 Vivax wrote: There has only been 1 kill tonight and BKE has been jailed. No medic claims so far. Funny how you're asking your usual scummy questions, isn't it, marv? How are they my usual scummy questions? I called BKE out as mafia, and you repeatedly attacked me for it. Now it appears that he is indeed mafia for sure from the night actions, you want to kill him. So I'm reminding you you were saying the same things about BKE to me before as you're saying about Chezinu now. It's very simple to understand. | ||
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On January 27 2013 07:18 Vivax wrote: Quote1: I speculated about that option earlier as well, but to be honest they would trade a kill of a more useful townie than BKE against the mislynch of a BKE that isn't of use to town, so I think it's unlikely and would be really bad play by scum. Quote2: Medic should only claim if he saved somebody. Pointless to claim when scum double stacked on Bugs. Even if he claims we won't know BKE's alignment. With all courtesy: That's a bad suggestion. Presumably there are two options: 1) the medic saved someone not-bugs, and if they did so, they get a notification for it 2) the medic saved bugs, thus we would know bugs was double stacked Either way we'd know for sure whether there was 1 or 2 KP, no? | ||
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On January 27 2013 07:49 Vivax wrote: I don't think medic gets confirmation if the target dies. But yeah, I just realized I made a mistake in thinking, forget what I just posted about medic not claiming if he targeted Bugs. If the medic targeted Bugs we know for sure that BKE is town, actually. Toad looked SO sure that Bugs hadn't been targeted though. This is the thing, you get so wrapped up in your blind paranoia that you won't listen to the basic sense that I'm trying to talk about. As to your following post, it also seems unlikely that bugs was doublestacked, simply because in this position mafia seriously need to get killing townies. | ||
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Chezinu has no reads, he's not involved in town, and he continues to have no reads. He doesn't participate with town in the slightest, like he normally does. Chezinu is known for being a troll of sorts, but also very perceptive and with very accurate reads. Yet he has displayed absolutely none of these qualities here. What has Chezinu done for the last several days? Absolutely nothing. In addition he screwed around with the mayoral voting on Day 1, bugs found the fact he voted gonzaw incriminating, I found his general jumping incriminating (when I played mafia with him in NMM3, he did many last-minute votes). He claimed to want to kill prplhz, yet refused to vote the candidate who wanted to vote prplhz (me), claiming he didn't understand what or who was running, despite quoting a bugs quote which had him voting for me. He also canvassed for prplhz's vote despite wanting to kill him. | ||
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Wait, you're telling me you can't think of one reason yamato is town? | ||
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On January 27 2013 08:14 Stutters695 wrote: FT Do you consider it worth it to lose a mad hatter to lynch chez? Annul made a pretty good point about safety in having you and him alive towards lylo as long as we ensure mafia has 1kp from now on. Given I'm pretty sure Chezinu is mafia and not at all sure anyone out of yam/axle/mocsta/debears etc. is mafia, yes. Saving a mad hatter bomb isn't a good enough reason not to lynch a strong mafia read. | ||
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I was expressing disbelief that he couldn't think of a single reason yamato was town. As can be seen, that wasn't what he was saying at all anyway. | ||
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On January 27 2013 20:24 Toadesstern wrote: your bomb just won't trigger no matter what if you're telling the truth. Mafia is not going to shoot you and we're not going to lynch you. Have fun being a VT. Pretty much this. | ||
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On January 27 2013 18:23 Mocsta wrote: AND.. if you want the PM I sent to FT regarding Chez before Night 2 ended here it is to confirm my thoughts on Chezinu Hi Mocsta, you should check out the conversation me and bugs had about this in-thread, if you haven't already. | ||
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Players like Axlegreaser and Adam are australian, and are either asleep already, or shortly going to sleep, and won't be awake much before the deadline. For whatever egotistical reason, you're denying them the opportunity to digest the check you have. | ||
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Stop responding to Vivax. Already Axlegreaser has had to go to sleep without knowing who the redcheck supposedly is. This is simply a disgrace. | ||
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On January 15 2013 06:56 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Play to win. This means you play your best to help your team win while you are alive and in the game. However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. You have been warned. | ||
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On January 28 2013 00:22 Vivax wrote: Have it: There was no check yesterday, the check was on Bugs. I'm not going to act like most people here and head like a zombie towards the next lynch without discussing other options and depriving the MH of his bomb. Pro town ftw yeah. Also, Mocsta is scum. What a terrible check. I am considering policy lynching you tomorrow, depending on the results of today's lynches. There's only so much blatantly playing against town wincon you can do before you have to be mafia. | ||
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In any case, now we can genuinely look for the 5th mafia. Vivax has been preventing the town doing so for the last 38 hours, as town was waiting for his redcheck. Now we can finally move on. | ||
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On August 04 2012 00:47 Palmar wrote: Non-top town players aren't terrible, they're just less adept at coming up with solutions, that doesn't mean they're incapable of recognizing a correct solution when it's presented to them by a top town player. Which is why killing town heads is so important. One amazing town player, can make 10 decent townies good. Almost everyone in this game is at least decent or good, so all it takes is someone to lead them, then they WILL recognize what is correct and what is not, and steamroll the mafia. | ||
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On January 28 2013 00:57 Mocsta wrote: ooo.. do we need to vote double lynch again for day 4? I hadn't even thought about this. Perhaps it's best we wait until today's lynches and tonight resolves before we have another double lynch. I don't see the harm in not double-lynching tomorrow, and seeing where we stand and deciding then. | ||
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On January 28 2013 01:15 annul wrote: well fuck, i still think you should not vote chezinu. there is LITERALLY only a potential neg negative about a chez lynch today. mafia do not get any extra KP for his survival today. The problem is, neither you nor anyone else has put forward a convincing case for anyone else being mafia. Plus Chezinu's mason flip gives us more information on the alignment of other masons. | ||
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On January 28 2013 01:20 annul wrote: you have a short list of suspected reds. if you systematically go down that list, we will get to the end before mafia ever kills us all off. Chezinu's death gives us a lot of information on the shortlist. | ||
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You never explained what made you check gonzaw, and now you're not explaining why you checked bugs, someone you never suggested was mafia, someone who pointed me towards prplhz, and someone who tried to get me off my Oats tunnel and on to gonzaw instead. Please explain to town why you chose to check bugs last night. | ||
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On January 28 2013 02:05 FiveTouch wrote: If you're town, now is the time to start showing it. You never explained what made you check gonzaw, and now you're not explaining why you checked bugs, someone you never suggested was mafia, someone who pointed me towards prplhz, and someone who tried to get me off my Oats tunnel and on to gonzaw instead. Please explain to town why you chose to check bugs last night. | ||
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On January 28 2013 06:16 yamato77 wrote: Chezinu are you claiming mafia? You know you can't do that, right? It's what we call in the trade, a "wifom bomb" | ||
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On January 28 2013 06:24 Chezinu wrote: I can claim scum. Palmar did it! But Palmar was town, my erstwhile scumbuddy <3 | ||
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On January 28 2013 09:22 Adam4167 wrote: ##Vote: BroodKingEXE ##Vote: Chezinu BKE will flip scum, I'm all but certain. Chezinu on the other hand I am not entirely sold on. However, in the interest of consolidating, not having a better option and following bugs reads, he's going to have to suffice for the second lynch today. You can ask me about it if you like. I'm well over 95% on Chezinu. | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:00 Adam4167 wrote: Mainly just his initial interaction with Prplhz. If he is indeed scum, would he have gone through with lynching prplhz for 'breaking the chezinu rule'? He didn't go through with it, he never voted for my candidacy despite the fact I wanted to lynch prplhz... | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:07 Mocsta wrote: So mafia have framer and roleblocker left and have lost 2 masons.. what are the chances they would have >2 masons on a 5 man team? What on earth are you basing this on? | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:23 Mocsta wrote: Oats.. can you seriously consider 2 mad hatters in this game? Why not?? | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote: I thought the way the roles went was that the letter for mad hatter had to come up multiple times, to get multiple characters. therefore, the chances of 1 mad hatter >>> chances of 2 mad hatter (Statistically) same reason its unlikely to have 3 detectives Where on earth are you getting this from? Are you just making shit up as you go along? | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:26 Mocsta wrote: I thought the way the roles went was that the letter for mad hatter had to come up multiple times, to get multiple characters. therefore, the chances of 1 mad hatter >>> chances of 2 mad hatter (Statistically) same reason its unlikely to have 3 detectives why (even given your mistake) would 2 detectives be more likely than 2 mad hatters? | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:35 yamato77 wrote: I know of 4 masons, 1 DT, 1 Medic, 1 Miller, and 1 Mad Hatter, all modconfirmed town. If we believe Vivax/Annul's claims, that puts town at 10 blues, double the number of mafia players total. I don't think this game is THAT imbalanced. Don't take this the wrong way, but you have no idea how games are/need to be balanced Miller isn't blue, and masons are unconfirmed as town | ||
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On January 28 2013 10:38 Mocsta wrote: Do i? Didnt think I was following Vivax around blindly And the 3 Dets vs 2 mad haters, was due to me thinking it was letter rolling. (as all the games i played have been like that) austin/adam already cleared that up. i said i apologised for confusion. I obviously shoudl have shut up when im not familiar with how all this stuff works. I realise that now and am avoiding any setup talk, its clear i dont know it. but you said 3 DTs was unlikely, which implies that 2 is likely, whereas 2 mad hatters was extremely unlikely. This is kinda curious. | ||
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And again, masons (in general) are not confirmed town. It's just we happen to have flipped two mafia masons already. Plus the original balance (17-5) is somewhat mafia-favoured. | ||
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Plus 20-5 is the usual balance, so with 17-5 town probably would have been given more blues. I kinda expect there to be at least another miller, too. Effectivel 17-5 vs 20-5 is one less mislynch mafia need, which is quite huge. | ||
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grush really needs to get his little bum in here and start talking to us. Yes you, grush. Mocsta: Day 2 Chez -> debears, Toad -> bugs, Day 3 yamato -> Toad. | ||
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On January 28 2013 22:22 Vivax wrote: Why would grush use a jack stack like that on yamato? I'd see grush going 100 % vigi with a jack role. He's been paying little attention to this game, and in LVIII he didn't shoot on night 1. He might yet have a vigi bullet up his sleeve. He could still be mason (but then who has he masoned?) but Jack is a possibility too. | ||
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On January 28 2013 22:34 Vivax wrote: Well, we know he would be a town jack in that case, kinda pointless to talk about this unless you think he's scum. Anyway, we know that yamato didn't tell grush anything about Chez, and didn't tell anything to town about Chez. He just told town that he thinks grush is mafia cause he didn't push for more communication. But yamato didn't push for communication either. To be honest, I don't know if I should believe that the ones masoning Chez D1 aren't mafia. You know what I thought of both of them throughout the game, and I could see this as a mindfuck attempt. They never tried to make conclusions openly about Chez's alignment until this day right? Or did yamato tell you something decisive D2, FT? I think they both thought he was tentatively town coming into Day 2, which seemed fair enough, as he had seemingly been putting in far more effort in PMs than in the thread. The thing is, we've already had 2 mafia masons flip, and then there's Mocsta/yamato/Toad/(grush?). That would be about the ratio of mafia-town masons that I would be expecting. | ||
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On January 28 2013 22:41 Vivax wrote: Well if I had to pick between yamato and Mocsta I'd say Mocsta is scum as of now. Him trying to make connections between me and Chez on a weak basis right before the flip looked pretty ugly. Gonna filter dive a little. It seems unlikely just due to mason numbers that either of them are mafia. You have to remember that bugs made his list before he died not knowing that moc+yam+chez were masons. There are people like Stutters/fuba who don't have anything like this going for them. Bodyguards should also be left until later, ideally. | ||
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On January 28 2013 23:03 Vivax wrote: FT, Mocsta Would you lynch fuba tomorrow? Right now I'm heavily considering Stutters, because he missed the fact you claimed the check on bugs. He explained himself by basically saying he's ignoring your posts. This is all very well, but both Toad and I (and others too) repeatedly made mention of the check. This signals an absolute failure to read the thread; not good. | ||
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On January 28 2013 23:29 Vivax wrote: That's why I asked you and Mocsta. Alright. It seems kinda likely we'll lynch between fuba and Stutters tomorrow. There's one progression in fuba's filter I don't like - after you revealed your gonzaw check but before he actually flipped, he said you were pretty likely to be town. Since then your check was confirmed correct, and subsequently now he thinks you're mafia. I'm not quite sure how much I read into that right now, given how... abrasive? you've been since then. Dunno. | ||
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There aren't many reasons to call either Stutters or fuba town. | ||
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On January 29 2013 00:32 Toadesstern wrote: Let's kill austin tomorrow. D1 here's what happened: I asked Gonzaw to vote for me to make me sheriff. He said he'll look into it and vote me if he won't get enough votes. He keeps his vote on himself until 5 minutes (by heart..) prior to deadline and sticks with it because he has 3 votes. HOWEVER he said he's fine with both austin and me and I think he was more fine with austin being sheriff than me. Have to check it but it looks odd. On top of that look at Chez' votes: austin -> BKE -> gonzaw 1 minute prior to deadline. On top of that if we assume Sandro (voting austin), axle (99% certain townie) and mocsta (most likely townie due to double mason flip) that leaves oats, Gonzaw and austin as people on austin / gonzaw. Gonzaw was mafia. Let's say oats is town for now. That means they can only get one to 4 without using a ninjavote from chez to push it to 5 which they MOST LIKELY didn't want to risk because that would have made it look really odd. The problem is, this is incorrect. He stated more than once he preferred you to austin. On January 22 2013 07:13 gonzaw wrote: I'll see if I get some votes first. I prefer you over austin though, so if it comes down to it I'll change my vote to you. | ||
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On January 29 2013 00:44 Toadesstern wrote: that was at a time when we were dead certain about BKE and chez both being mafia. I'd say he's a good option again. well yeah, but he never did... Just check austins filter. He never did, but so what? gonzaw never even left the door open for him being able to vote for austin, because if he voted for austin after saying he preferred you, he'd be caught immediately. He didn't vote for you in the end because a) he's mafia and b) you already had the position. | ||
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annul, I don't really have any game-changing information or anything that would stop someone being mafia (apart from the one toad knows about). If I implied so / it read so, it shouldn't, my apologies. | ||
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On January 29 2013 01:11 Toadesstern wrote: and that one sounds weird to me. I don't know... maybe some native could tell me if it does sound weird in english but when I think about it in german it does sound weird. I just don't know about this "I would". As in, does it sound weird at all to you? If it does, is it because it's wrong tenses or is it because it sounds weird on itself. It sounds fine to me. It's not a point in austin's favour, though, because he's clever enough to know that he'd be able to use this argument in the future (i.e. now). Because actually the fact that gonzaw was unsaveable means any clever mafia could opposite and later go "omgz, why would I do that, it's so silly!!!!" | ||
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The only somewhat conclusions I've drawn are the mason mafia/town ratio. | ||
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Three major candidates for sherriff - toad, austin, gonzaw. If both gonzaw/austin are mafia then they shouldn't have been running against each other so late in the day, or they should have been giving themselves options to try to get the other into power. None of these things happened. | ||
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On January 29 2013 01:45 austinmcc wrote: Mostly guilt over not participating. I'm not used to not being involved, and I don't like it. I don't think I'm a likely NK candidate at this point, because I've been so uninvolved, so the surprise of the role is gone. And if I'm not going to be able to contribute as positively as normal, I especially don't want to clog up a day of discussion. I understand you don't seem to want to lynch me, but if there's serious discussion on that point I'd rather just nip it in the bud. It's probably dumb, it doesn't give us anything except maybe make scum NKs interesting. Effectively, with 1 KP, there are 3 targets they can't kill and it's going to be difficult to see them try and set up for the very late game. Except how does an unverifiable claim nip anything in the bud? | ||
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austin in general has been townier than guys like fuba, stutters, annul. | ||
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On January 29 2013 02:09 yamato77 wrote: Sounds like you're more upset that this didn't happen than you are about it being a reason he isn't mafia. This doesn't even make sense. | ||
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In the quote Vivax provided, he said he was happy to vote for gonzaw, and yet he never did. austin could easily have consolidated over to gonzaw and made him sheriff, yet didn't, and let Toad become elected sheriff instead. austin was plenty active Day 1 and it makes no sense that he wouldn't throw his support over to gonzaw at some stage, especially as he'd seemingly given himself this opportunity to do so. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=166#3312 | ||
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The reasons for annul/stutters/clarity/debears/fuba to be town are much weaker than for austin. | ||
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On January 29 2013 02:20 yamato77 wrote: Funny how that list got longer since the last time you posted it. Riddle me this: if both mafia are among that group, what hope do they have of winning? Because people like you want to lynch people like austin? | ||
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On January 29 2013 02:22 yamato77 wrote: Why are you defending someone with a weak piece of WIFOM? why don't you ask bugs the same thing? | ||
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Except you're dismissing the same reasoning we've both used as 'weak wifom'. There's not a lot I can do about that. | ||
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You must be right, I concede the point. | ||
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On January 29 2013 02:32 yamato77 wrote: The only way you're right is if there's another mafia on Gonzaw, because that would give mafia no logical options to get him elected with. prplhz was on you, wasting his vote intentionally. Chezinu moved his vote around, ending up on Gonzaw. Gonzaw was on himself. Where were the other 2 votes, if mafia was actually invested in getting Gonzaw elected? Do you really think Mocsta and Axle are mafia? You understand that not only mafia get to vote right? By austin standing he's leeching town votes as well as mafia votes. Anyone on austin could have voted gonzaw if he'd taken himself out the running. Especially as austin had supported gonzaw. Sigh. There's a whole bunch of people telling me I might be wrong on this, so I'm going to avoid doing my Oats thing and look again at austin. | ||
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On January 29 2013 02:37 yamato77 wrote: You can't reliably say that the town votes on Austin would have gone to Gonzaaw, or vice-versa, if you're the mafia team on day 1. No, but it's much how the presidential elections in France usually work. There's the right-centre candidate, the socialist type candidate, and the far-right candidate. Usually in their elections the far-right candidate gets elected in the first round of voting, and their votes go over to the right-centre candidate. I'd anticipate similar would happen here, especially as austin had given hearty support to gonzaw. Anyway I'll think about it later when I'm not supposed to be working. | ||
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On January 22 2013 08:08 austinmcc wrote: Vivax, Given that you seem to want toad with bodyguards, and toad wants toad with bodyguards, but does not want Chez with bodyguards, why keep your vote on Chez? Hi probable townie, given you want another townie with bodyguards (toad), why don't you move your vote off mafia and on to this townie? | ||
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On January 29 2013 03:35 debears wrote: They had to decide by the start of n1. Austin was pretty townish in my books heading into n1. Why not give him the godfather mason over chez? Because Chez is way more likely to be checked than austin, for a start. That's not a good argument. | ||
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On January 29 2013 03:50 debears wrote: True. What's really irking me is that they made chez a mason, yet chez never went thru with his plan stated in pregame, which outted him as mafia. Especially when chez told me that plan. Makes it seem like mafia are in a decent position for chez to throw himself like that Chezinu didn't become mayor, which was part of his pre-game plan, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. That's not why Chezinu is mafia. Mafia need 5 mislynches from now to win, they're in a terrible position. | ||
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On January 29 2013 06:55 grush57 wrote: Why does no one care that I'm barely posting? :'( Austin, why are you scum? Vivax, explain all your dt checks plox. I keep asking you things and you keep not replying. Are you a mason? If so, who have you masoned every day? fuba: Mocsta and Yamato are free to post our logs, but they take a lot of effort getting all the threads together. Mostly I'm talking to them about Oats and trying to stop them ranting (especially yamato) at Vivax in-thread. | ||
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How do you feel about masoning me tomorrow? | ||
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On January 26 2013 02:25 annul wrote: hey WBG and fivetouch and toad who are your top three scum reads pl0x bugs and toad gave you Chez/BKE/fuba, I gave you Chez/BKE/axlegreaser Knowing that we were 99% likely going to lynch Chez/BKE day 3, why on earth did you put your bomb on Chezinu? | ||
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In BC's last normal, there were two DTs, a couple of millers, GF, Framer, if I remember correctly. | ||
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On January 29 2013 07:33 Vivax wrote: Kinda hard to believe scum doesn't have such a powerful role as the RB and nothing to compensate for that. I can't give you an amazing reason for it, but I'd give a 95%+ confidence that mafia don't have two framers. | ||
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On January 29 2013 07:26 FiveTouch wrote: annul: During night 2, you asked this: bugs and toad gave you Chez/BKE/fuba, I gave you Chez/BKE/axlegreaser Knowing that we were 99% likely going to lynch Chez/BKE day 3, why on earth did you put your bomb on Chezinu? | ||
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On January 29 2013 10:47 Vivax wrote: So, who are we lynching today? Who did Toad jail?Why is he so quiet lately? I am swimming in an ocean of I don't know what the fuck. well, for a start, we'll see how annul answers me. Because at the moment it seems like this. annul asks me/bugs/toad who we're going to lynch day 3. We all say BKE/Chez. annul puts his bomb (?) on Chezinu. Why? We're lynching him! From a mafia perspective? mafia know BKE is town. So if they manage to keep Chez alive for an extra day, they get an extra KP. I literally don't understand putting the bomb on Chezinu in that situation. | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:00 Vivax wrote: Why wouldn't you understand that a MH put the bomb on a scumread of his? On what else should he put it? Why would you put your bomb on a scumread who is almost 100% getting lynched the next day? | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:02 Vivax wrote: You posted a post where there were three options for yesterday's lynch during N2. How the hell is annul supposed to be sure who's going to get lynched? because it was fucking obvious? All 3 of me/bugs/toad said BKE and Chezinu, the only differences were in #3. Did anyone genuinely end night 2 thinking we weren't lynching those 2?! | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:23 Vivax wrote: With me bluffing around with my check and being so convinced that yamato and Mocsta were scum, annul claiming MH and me buying it instantly, no, I was not convinced that Chezinu would get lynched until late-ish. No, but annul claimed Mad Hatter on day 3. Going into day 3, he hadn't yet. If you take aside your tunnels, and before annul claimed, did you think there was any realistic likelihood of those 2 not getting lynched? If so, who did you think was getting lynched day 3? | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:41 Vivax wrote: Anyone who I claimed to have checked as red had the potential of getting lynched. I could be crazy enough to fakeclaim if I'm sure that it gets scum lynched. Grush knows that, I told him I might do it. But I decided to tell the truth in the end. Alright. Forget you're DT for the moment. Say you're some random townie, a mad hatter. All the town leaders want to lynch the same two players. No-one is disagreeing with them. There's the possibility of some cop (you) having a check, but whatever. It's looking monumentally likely Chez/BKE are getting lynched. Do you place your bomb on one of them, or some 3rd guy, who could be mafia? | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:46 grush57 wrote: Why no check annul or austin? did you mason me? | ||
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On January 29 2013 11:52 Vivax wrote: I just checked the voting thread. Why didn't annul try to get his buddies elected if he's indeed scum? I don't see that vote make sense for mafia. I agree, this is the strongest cases for annul not being mafia. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:00 Vivax wrote: For prplhz it made sense to not get one of them elected, it would look super fishy after his lynch. He could have managed to elect gonzaw or austin into position together with Chez. If you think about it, a townie in pole position like both of them could be effectively framed by getting elected this way by a scum right before dying. That actually speaks for austinmcc being scum cause they were afraid of forcing his election. Vivax, this is ridiculously speculative :/ Mafia didn't want an un-DTable, shot-proof, jailing protection because being elected is suspicious? Come on. I mean, just to note, that's 3 roleblocks on any outed DT/medic or whatever that mafia were forfeiting for some wifom-y reason. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:06 yamato77 wrote: Let me color in that votecount for you, because what you're suggesting is that every mafia would have piled on Gonzaw to get him elected, which is obviously not true. You guys are rehashing the same argument. There's 2 unconfirmed mafia on that list somewhere. They could have Gotten Gonzaw elected, but they didn't. It's not a good argument to say someone is town just because they didn't vote for Gonzaw. Posted this in the wrong thread, derp. What do you think about what I've been saying about annul's bomb? | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:11 yamato77 wrote: I don't know why you're pushing annul in one post and then not in the next. What the fuck are you doing, marv? I might actually start weeping. I'm pushing him because I don't understand what he did. But the argument Vivax put in the thread is a good reason annul could be town, and I'm not gonna bullshit about it. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:16 yamato77 wrote: Marv are you trying to tell us you're mafia with this "mafia wouldn't pass the chance to be elected up" stuff? Because looking at what happened, unless I think Toad is mafia (I don't), then you're the only other option. Yes, I'm claiming mafia right now. Fuck me. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:19 Oatsmaster wrote: yamato, are you saying that 5touch is Marv? Or are you just angry at EVERYBODY? Who do you want to lynch today It's pretty much been settled I'm marv. Why do you think I keep telling you I can't talk about the game on IRC, dufus | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:24 yamato77 wrote: Well the important thing isn't what I think, because obviously I've been saying he might be mafia all game, it's what you think, because you're mayor and de facto leader of town since most of town votes with you anyway. But you know this and aren't taking any strong stances about ANYONE in the last cycle or so. Why? Because I don't know who's mafia, it's quite simple. The reason I keep asking Vivax, and anyone who will listen, about what they thought about the day 3 lynch, is because; it seems absolutely apparent to me who was getting lynched on day 3, so the fact that annul had his bomb on chezinu should at the least be a cause for concern. But if a bunch of other townies for some reason didn't think it was a forgeone conclusion, then something I find obvious clearly isn't obvious to everyone else. Which changes how I view things. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:24 Vivax wrote: Okay. Let's all cool the fuck down. I'm in support of an austin lynch cause of the stated. Marv gets lynched at LYLO (which comes before with him as scum mayor) to avoid another Hero MM. DID YOU HEAR ME GRUSH???? Marv, don't take this personally, but you're dangerous as shit to have around at LYLO, no matter who you lynched. Consider this an argument that doesn't want your reply. It's policy. yes but you're a fucking idiot and it makes me want to tear my hair out. on the basis i'm town it's impossible for me to be killed for now. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:28 yamato77 wrote: It was a foregone conclusion, there was nothing aside from Vivax's check that would have swayed the votes, especially after Bugs died, cementing the reads in people's minds. Annul was stupid for putting his bomb on Chez, and I said when he claimed that it looked like a play for survival, and now Chez flips red which makes it look worse. This is nothing new, you've just been ignoring it. I'd much rather lynch Austin now, after this though because you don't seem to want to take responsibility for this lynch, which makes me uneasy. I'm not talking to you anymore. You're stupidly shovelling suspicion at me despite my play the entire game, despite how when we were masoned i repeatedly prevented you fucking up the whole thread with Vivax. I'm literally not interested in what you have to say any more if this is the attitude you're taking. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:30 Stutters695 wrote: I asked him that question a while ago. I would have to check his filter and remember what he said though. I had that same concern. Especially with BKE flipping town. Yes, you did actually. I just checked. This makes me view you in a more favourable light. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:32 yamato77 wrote: I just don't understand why you opposed me saying Annul's claim was fake before and then now you're the one questioning it. Seems convenient. use your brain. for once in your whole mafia fucking life, please use your fucking brain. I beg you. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:35 Vivax wrote: Seriously marv stop acting like a dick, you always seem to take for granted that everyone should see you as town, you also did as scum in Hero. you're seriously telling me to stop acting like a dick? this has to get a mafia award. If you don't see me as town by now, I may as well quit mafia. | ||
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On January 29 2013 12:39 yamato77 wrote: Did you or didn't you do exactly as I said? WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU | ||
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Some guy plays the most pro-town game you can possibly imagine in almost 20 pages of filter. He has suspicion of a guy at a slightly different time than you. FUCK ME HE MUST BE MAFIA OMG FUCK ME FUCK ME | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:13 Vivax wrote: I'm an idiot. I saved scum from being lynched to lynch another scum. you realise with how hard gonzaw pushed him day 2 that's quite unlikely, right? | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:18 Vivax wrote: Not really. YANMM Wiggles did the same to me. I was just a complete idiot for thinking Oats is town for pushing gonzaw. This isn't the only reason Oats is scum. The main reason is his activity in the other game. oats pushing gonzaw is irrelevant, gonzaw hard pushing oats day 2 after a mafia lynch less so | ||
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On January 29 2013 13:23 Vivax wrote: You're WIFOMING yourself pretty hard about that now. Town was dead-set on lynching Oats. Time to ask you the famous question: Wasn't it crystal clear at the start of D2 that the lynch was between gonzaw and Oats? Where did all your reasons for voting Oats D2 go? You looked like you were the one pushing the lynch the hardest. I was, but mostly I thought gonzaw was town because Oats was mafia, and vice versa. It wasn't at all clear Oats was being lynched day 2, it only really started happening when i pushed it in the second half. gonzaw could have for example being pushing annul for the first half of day 2, but he pushed Oats really hard instead. I would feel really stupid if we lynched one of my bodyguards and he flipped town after a confirmed mafia decided he was the one that he would push all through day 2 :/ anyway, back tomorrow | ||
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On January 29 2013 18:44 Toadesstern wrote: Marv, Axle might be back on the list... He's apparently not what everyone agreed him to be. Then we should absolutely be lynching Axle. His activity has dropped off a cliff. ##Vote: Axlegreaser | ||
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Why on earth would you die? How would you die? Why would you put your bomb on someone who is going to die already? | ||
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I agree it's not a strong point Toad. I also agree with your list of 3. | ||
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Here's a clue: it isn't | ||
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On January 29 2013 21:29 Toadesstern wrote: Also if Axle isn't the medic his "medic-like"-posts sound a lot like mafia because he's thinking about medics so much. Remember:
Now if we take all that into consideration and with the knowledge that he in fact isn't a medic he thinks about medics an awful lot for apparently no reason. He also tried to figure out the "medic plan" I did n1 and n2. Why would you do that unless you're a medic yourself? I REALLY thought the guy is just a bad townie who kept blabbering about his role and can't keep his mouth shut and ignored the fact that he's not contributing both because I was damn certain about him being a medic and because being focused about a role (medic) like that is something new guys do if they happen to have that role themselves... Bugs thought the same thing, I told marv about it and he INSTANTLY agreed and said it's so obvious now that I mentioned it in mason-chat, which is the reason he changed from axle being probably mafia to axle being probably town so suddenly. Now that we know he is no medic it looks an awful lot like someone trying to contribute something (talk about medics) when it doesn't do a thing for us. At all. On top of that he is really focused about who ends up being medic'ed / jailed and there's obvious mafia reason to think about that a lot. I don't see a lot of reasons for townies to think about that stuff unless you're involved yourself (aka: you are the medic). Basically I agree with this whole post. | ||
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On January 29 2013 21:03 FiveTouch wrote: Why on earth would you die? How would you die? Why would you put your bomb on someone who is going to die already? | ||
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On January 29 2013 22:46 annul wrote: how i'd die: through NKs why i'd die: who knows wtf the mafia is doing? explanation for the bombing (for the third time): So effectively your argument is that in the miniscule eventuality you get killed on Night 2, you were going to blow up a mafia that was certainly going to die anyway the next day. Right? | ||
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On January 29 2013 23:02 Vivax wrote: Gonzaw: → → They were afraid of electing gonzaw like that. → Austin: → → They were afraid of electing austin like that, just like gonzaw. → Austin is town and they didn't think about framing austin like that and preferred Toad as townie over austin anyway. → Vivax, this is all working on the rather wonky promise that mafia want to elect town into elected positions. Given prplhz was absent, Chez was trolling etc., I'd rather imagine they were far more worrying about the fact that a mayor was getting elected on a landslide on the platform of lynching a mafia. If I were mafia during day 1, I can't really imagine that I'd be thinking of trying to frame a townie by electing them into office, especially as it wasn't clear where all the votes were lying/how they would end up. | ||
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The issue was that he never pushed the idea at all. He pushes Vivax quite a bit on Day 1, and the whole medic stuff a lot too, but otherwise there isn't much to hang your hat on. | ||
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On January 29 2013 23:26 Toadesstern wrote: yeah that's what I thought... I guess all three out of: Annul, axle and mkfuba make good lynches for today. I would have actually thought mafia would just give up when we lynched BKE and chez and then BKE suddenly flipped town, meaning something had to be wrong in our calculasions about one guy. Axle being labled as 99% percent certain townie by all three of us (bugs, Marv, Toad) might be the reason they still thought they're in this. It also fits the bill on the fact that we had to be wrong on one specific guy that has no connections to someone else because axle supposedly being a medic was the only reason he never got lynched. TL;DR: Probably axle > annul > mkfuba? Yeah. At the very least annul needs to be giving a better explanation for putting his bomb on Chez. Because at the moment it seems like putting your bomb on someone who is getting lynched the next day on the really small chance he gets NKed on that exact same night (over bugs, over the outed cop...) seems really, really dodgy. | ||
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On January 29 2013 23:28 annul wrote: do you have an inability to read or something? for the FOURTH time, WHY WOULD YOU WANT TOWN NOT TO LYNCH A MAFIA | ||
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1. Toad, FT, bugs, as well as others all want to lynch BKE and Chezinu, believing both to be clearly mafia 2. Therefore these 2 will get lynched on day 3 and hopefully flip mafia 3. You decide to put your bomb on a mafia who is getting lynched the next day, because you might get shot on Night 2 (on Night 3 you could move your bomb so it doesn't matter). 4. You try to stop town lynching a guy everyone thinks is mafia, because you put your bomb on him, despite it being obvious that he was getting lynched the next day If you're town, there's a terrible, terrible breakdown in thought process somewhere along the line here. | ||
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On January 30 2013 00:02 Vivax wrote: You know, he could just say : "Well shit, I used my role in a really bad manner sorry" and start saying what he wants to do today. Instead he's seemingly afraid to look bad and openly says he wanted town to get off Chez wtf. This is what is giving me problems. There actually seems to be a chance that somehow a town annul genuinely thought what he did was a good idea, and that arguing for town not to lynch a mafia is also somehow a good idea. Ugh. | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:11 debears wrote: Was it brought up that Axle had his d1 votes on both Chez and Gonzaw for mayor? I think I've talked about it before, but yeah. The best reason for thinking Axle isn't mafia is that he was medic. Axle refused to vote for me on day 1 due to smurf readability issues, but was happy to vote Chez, and later he voted for gonzaw despite saying he didn't think he was actually town, merely that he'd be able to read him in future days. | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:27 Stutters695 wrote: Also Mocsta can you provide the timestamp for the first PM Annul responded with? Thanks. Still not reading the thread? Mocsta is dead. | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:31 Toadesstern wrote: that could be a mafiaploy! Don't make it a townread on stutters please :p :/ lol. Guess what i just wrote in my spreadsheet... Missed that Mocsta is dead... could be cunning mafia ploy, but probably stupid townie. | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:26 Stutters695 wrote: This is pure WIFOM but the only thing that gives me pause about an annul lynch is how obviously of a bad play it was for scum if he knew BKE would flip town. He pretty much asked us to keep scum at 2kp another night without suggesting a solid case for the double lynch. Surely he'd know how bad that would bite him in the ass as soon as the flip happened? But his lack of truly explaining why he kept his bomb on chez and the convenience of his claim from a scum perspective (no way to verify other than role cop) doesn't look good. Additionally the whole mason thing with Mocsta didn't sit right with me. At the time it was hard to explain since he just abruptly stopped talking to Mocsta so he wouldn't potentially get framed. That's all well and good, but why wouldn't he push him after. He said another Mason was scum, voted Mocsta (mason) and tried to save Chez (confirmed scum mason). These are an awful lot of coincidences in addition to not being a very town player in general. There's not that much to say about it because it's essentially correct. I still think he might be town, but I'll feel exceptionally dumb if he turns out to be mafia. It's like he's actively sabotaging himself and I don't understand the mafia motivation for doing so. The whole mad hatter thing drew massive amounts of attention to himself. Was it really worth it for possibly having one extra KP, when even this wasn't likely at all? Why make the play at all? It makes me tentatively lean on townie doing some really fucking stupid things instead. | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:40 Toadesstern wrote: can't call me stupid anymore after this game. We do think alike after all. I mean for all I care you can still call me stupid every now and then but I'll do the "stop hitting yourself" and link to this game / to this post :3 The worst of it is that we both used the words "mafia ploy". I might kill myself | ||
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On January 30 2013 01:55 annul wrote: snore. i did not use my role in a bad way. my role usage is perfectly fine. if i have ANY bad marks on my play, it's not recognizing that the BKE got lynched without a single defender... it was way too easy and i should have picked up on the fact that he had not even one player at his back for the lynch, and thus may not be mafia. but this bad mark is on the entire town, not just me. assuming BKE was mafia, like 100% of the players here did (i may have missed a defender, but i doubt it), then there is literally no reason at all to have killed chez yesterday. none. mafia KP remains at 1 and chez does not hold any town powers, he isn't trusted, he's essentially already dead, just with a voice and one vote. that's it. This is precisely why I told you no-one is confirmed red until they flip. We must lynch our strongest scumreads, because we need to know what they flip for certain. That's why we had to lynch Chezinu, it's really obvious. As for the BKE lynch, do you really think the other two mafia would stick their neck out to defend him? That's an absurd notion. | ||
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Your best post of the game, Vivax :D | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:14 Vivax wrote: Why are we even arguing about this again? What has this even to do with you picking Chez over anyone else? Are you trying to say that scum would try to sway off votes from BKE in your world? And how is that even related to you picking Chez? How did you know before the night ended that people would be sure that BKE was mafia afterwards since that seems to be your reasoning for picking Chez? Imagine how stubborn you can be on occasion. Then multiply it by 2 and look at annul. His argument is that in case he miraculously got shot night 2, he wanted to have his bomb on a mafia we were killing anyway, on the basis that BKE had to be mafia 100% (despite the fact night actions hadn't 'confirmed' BKE as mafia yet). And he'll continue to argue his role usage is "fine". Not getting any more out of this one :/ | ||
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On January 30 2013 02:50 Vivax wrote: Come on, it's clear annul just dug himself into a hole by trying to argue with something that isn't even related to the accusation. He knew all the things he's guilty of, and one of them is calling BKE scum. That's why he's justifying for doing that when literally all of town was sure about BKE. Forget axle, let's annul annul His argument is that if BKE is mafia, then mafia KP is reduced, and there's no reason to lynch Chezinu. I don't think he's defending himself for something not mentioned, because that's a central part of his 'plan'. Of course it was retarded anyway because he should have put his bomb on someone that we weren't lynching, but there we go. | ||
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On January 30 2013 03:09 Vivax wrote: Meh, whatever. He and austin are far better lynches than Axle in my opinion. As far as I'm understanding Toad he thinks Axle is scum cause he talked like he's a medic but didn't claim in the mason chat. Well, he could have claimed saying that he tried to save someone if he was mafia, so I don't see the point Toad sees. The Chez and gonzaw support can be said for grush and debears as well, I'm sure debears supported Chez initially, not sure about gonzaw, would have to look but I checked him anyway. grush is a mason with starsenses, and debears you checked green. Mocsta also flipped green. It's logical to lynch a gonzaw voter, apart from anything else. Also Toad didn't ask him if he was medic, he just asked him to claim his role. Toad and I discussed this and made sure Toad didn't "lead" Axle on for this reason. | ||
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By green I just meant town. But thank you for that correction, it's really added to the thread's knowledge. | ||
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this is the problem with democracies today, everything thinks they should have their say. | ||
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On January 30 2013 07:35 annul wrote: i like how people are voting double lynch and yet they have trouble even agreeing on the first target i still like yamato for reasons i indicated the last time i called him out you think we have 3 mafia masons vs 3 town masons? | ||
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On January 30 2013 08:26 annul wrote: i admit it is unlikely under normal balancing theories but this game is far from balanced Yeah, mafia have to achieve one less mislynch, so they get more masons, right? :/ | ||
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On January 30 2013 08:40 annul wrote: yeah, mafia have to achieve one less mislynch, so they get a jack, gf, at least 2 masons, and probably an rb and framer, right? they almost certainly don't have a roleblocker. i heavily doubt they have 3 masons too. | ||
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On January 30 2013 14:22 mkfuba07 wrote: Annul So there are two scenarios, either Annul told the truth and he’s town, or he lied and he’s scum. We’re actually somewhat fortunate in that his alignment comes down to a single decision in the game. I feel a lot of confusion in the thread regarding what he says he did. This is his explanation, as I believe many/some people understand it:
Now is this the work of town annul, or scum annul? Let’s start with scum. What does scum Annul know? He knows Chezinu is scum, and BKE is town. He knows he is not actually a Mad Hatter, and can only appear as one a maximum of one time (if the final scum is the framer). He also knows that he breadcrumbed Mad Hatter from the beginning of the game for some reason. Who would he choose to “bomb”? Chezinu, of course. What are the possible outcomes of this scenario (convincing town to vote someone other than Chezinu)? Given that he knows BKE is town, he knows that town is likely headed for a mislynch D3. Probably two, if he is able to switch people off of Chez. He knows he will look quite suspicious if he succeeds in his ploy. He would be in much the same position he is now. So many people were sure of Chez’s scumminess that, having saved him the previous day and leading town to two mislynches, Annul would be right up there with him. They would have one more KP that night, but they would likely sacrifice both their lives. If he failed, what has happened, happens. It becomes known that he tried to save (likely) scum. He has, at most, one night of safety from DT checks. He has drawn a significant amount of attention to himself, and has earned nothing from it. Now let’s look at town Annul. What does town Annul know? He knows he is Mad Hatter. He knows that he finds BKE and Chezinu both to be incredibly likely scum. Who would he choose to bomb? Doesn’t matter, because town Annul thinks they’re both scum. What are the possible outcomes of this scenario (convincing town to vote someone other than Chezinu)? If he fails, he loses his bomb, and two scum flip (oops). Town might be suspicious of him because of it, but nowhere near as much as we were today due to the BKE flip (oops). But if he succeeds, then he's given town the opportunity to lynch an additional person D3. Whether or not the second person is scum, the KP would still be reduced to 1 permanently because we were still lynching BKE (oops). In addition, town has effectively taken Chezinu hostage, guaranteeing annul's survival as long as Chezinu is alive. That would be 3 guaranteed townies who couldn't be NK'd (FT, toad, and annul) and one "free" scum, leaving us in that 0.000001% situation annul mentioned when he claimed. You will note that all three times I wrote (oops) were times his assumption of BKE flipping scum screwed him over. This perfectly explains why he says his only mistake was BKE. I don't believe that scum annul would risk his own life to save Chezinu given what he would have known. The pros don't outweigh the cons, as he looks suspicious either way. The town annul explanation is far more feasible. I'm about 95% more inclined to believe that town annul had a significant oversight and had trouble explaining himself than I am to believe that scum annul risked his life quite blatantly to save someone who ultimately was likely going to be lynched anyway. Add to that other small things, like the fact that he breadcrumbed his role, and that he could have gotten gonzaw elected but kept his vote on himself, and I think it's pretty conclusive. So, the way I understand the situation is more like this:
I've essentially agreed with you already: On January 30 2013 01:45 FiveTouch wrote: There's not that much to say about it because it's essentially correct. I still think he might be town, but I'll feel exceptionally dumb if he turns out to be mafia. It's like he's actively sabotaging himself and I don't understand the mafia motivation for doing so. The whole mad hatter thing drew massive amounts of attention to himself. Was it really worth it for possibly having one extra KP, when even this wasn't likely at all? Why make the play at all? It makes me tentatively lean on townie doing some really fucking stupid things instead. There are two issues. Firstly, annul is an experienced player. He should absolutely not be making the blunder of making the assumption that a player will 100% flip red. annul should god-damn well know that people aren't certain mafia until we've seen their flip. On January 28 2013 01:25 FiveTouch wrote: Because no-one is confirmed red until they flip. Not prplhz, not gonzaw, not BKE, and not Chezinu. On January 30 2013 01:57 FiveTouch wrote: This is precisely why I told you no-one is confirmed red until they flip. We must lynch our strongest scumreads, because we need to know what they flip for certain. That's why we had to lynch Chezinu, it's really obvious. As for the BKE lynch, do you really think the other two mafia would stick their neck out to defend him? That's an absurd notion. Your thought process is fine, fuba, but it's made on your (oops) assumption that BKE was definitely red, and it is based on what could have been another (oops) assumption in that Chezinu was definitely flipping red. Secondly, his vote on yamato today is just terrible. It was almost enough to make me want to consider moving my vote. | ||
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On January 30 2013 18:31 Toadesstern wrote: 2 important thigns I thought about while sleeping:
Toad, could you explain this one to me a bit? | ||
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On January 30 2013 22:25 Toadesstern wrote: we want mafia to shoot our bodyguards. Leaving the doublelynch for now gives mafia just one more reason to shoot into the bodyguards. Also Vivax is looking worse and worse for suggesting that we should lynch you for safety. As long as we get a single mafia lynch in the next 6 or so cycles we win as long as the two of us are alive. Mafia knows they can't win by ignoring us and have to deal with us either way. 1 guy left, Marv left, Toad left in lylo is gg :p I think I'm being stupid. Why does a double-lynch remove motive for mafia shooting into bodyguards? | ||
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On January 30 2013 22:28 Toadesstern wrote: Because there's peopel being paranoid about you, just look at vivax. We only have 2 double-lynches and already used one. They might hope that someone is going to lynch you and deal with you that way. And frankly speaking I think some people here might be stupid enough to fall for that. I still don't understand at all what that means for double lynch. Mafia hope I might get lynched so we don't use the double lynch? What's the connection I'm missing? | ||
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On January 30 2013 23:06 Toadesstern wrote: with you being dead we can't use the doublelynch anymore, can't we? Give them a straw they can hold on to, just to crush them afterwards :3 I mean whatever, doesn't make that much of a difference. Don't think mafia will just ignore us anyways. This isn't how I read the OP at all, double-lynch is simply voted for by town as a whole and requires a majority. It seems prudent to me to lynch off the not-confirmed list as quickly as possible, no? Does saving it for later have any particular purpose? | ||
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On January 30 2013 19:34 AxleGreaser wrote: Which might explain why I didn't vote for double Lynch. Also curious what Axle means by this, given Toad's entire premise for not double-lynching was incorrect. | ||
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On January 29 2013 20:57 Adam4167 wrote: Just finished a 20 hour shift. I'm not opposed to anyone in this list dying. Still want to kill Vivax for his play this game. Ill be back in the morning when i'm more coherent. On January 31 2013 00:34 Adam4167 wrote: ##Vote Axlegreaser ##Vote Double Lynch Ninja votes, promises to contribute without doing so. Hi Adam. | ||
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There's only a certain number of people I'm lynching into, and I know who I want to lynch tomorrow. Plus with a double lynch tomorrow we can revive a bit of flagging interest, and town can really debate a target, rather than me (and toad) ruling by diktat. Not being funny but like 90% of town hasn't had a say in a lynch really all game, and I think tomorrow's a pretty good time to do so. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:17 austinmcc wrote: Yeah, the subjective odds are different, and I can take myself out, and all that jazz. But I'm skeptical that a double lynch is going to create oodles of discussion, a lot of us that aren't saying much also didn't say much on our earlier double lynch day (at least about lynch targets), and more skeptical that the value of any extra discussion is higher during the next cycle than one ... 2 or 3 down the road. You were skeptical about gonzaw being mafia because there were no mason claims from people he'd talked to, despite the overwhelming evidence that was his lack of trying to help town when he was outed. I rather say I prefer my judgement on the dynamics and feel of a thread than yours, because you tend to put the emphasis on the wrong things. The last double lynch was decided pretty much before the day arrives, this one is not. Do you know which 2 players we're going to lynch tomorrow? Maybe you can guess, but everyone has different opinions. On Day/Night 2 BKE/Chez was getting pretty damn certain already. So yeah, I think it will force town to be active at this point tomorrow, whereas town has kinda died a bit of a death today, and I think that's a good thing. And I want to eliminate people I think are possibly mafia asap. | ||
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I'd rather have these players alive and able to talk about things tomorrow than not. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:38 austinmcc wrote: Mafia has 1 KP max. They're not magically dropping a list of players overnight. irrelevant? if we get a bunch of lynches wrong we're down say 2 more townies from lynches and 2 more almost-confirmed townies from NKs so... double lynch now while they're still around also for other reasons i just mentioned just do what i fucking say for once for god's sake. | ||
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Otherwise... we could double lynch and then there's not so much of an argument about things. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:45 austinmcc wrote: Do what you fucking say is, in part, a problem that you're saying the double lynch will help solve. If we get a bunch of lynches wrong and are losing townies, I don't see how a double lynch helps that. We're magically going to double lynch scum or 2 scum when we couldn't single lynch scum for 2-3 days? ok, i submit to your argument, because you've been so god damn correct this game. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:45 austinmcc wrote: Do what you fucking say is, in part, a problem that you're saying the double lynch will help solve. If we get a bunch of lynches wrong and are losing townies, I don't see how a double lynch helps that. We're magically going to double lynch scum or 2 scum when we couldn't single lynch scum for 2-3 days? also, you appear to be arguing against using a double lynch later, when the only reason we'd use a double lynch later is because we hadn't killed all the mafia yet. so well done there. | ||
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And then I probably won't be able to stop what I think is a completely suboptimal lynch, and it'll be rubbish. Whereas if we double lynch, town will much more readily agree to my lynch target, if there's another one up for grabs. It's basically a win for everyone. | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:58 austinmcc wrote: I'm fine with your judgment when I think it's right I just don't think it is in this case. I don't see this as a judgment call at all, I think it's just straight-up better to hold our other double lynch for later. That's because you judge the 'maths' or 'objective information' - say gonzaw not masoning anyone - over such things as thread atmosphere and town morale (or gonzaw not doing anything) | ||
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On January 31 2013 06:56 Adam4167 wrote: Hi friend. I didn't feel like I had anything overly important to contribute, so I didn't. Anything you'd care to discuss? I think you're mafia | ||
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On January 31 2013 07:08 austinmcc wrote: I swear you didn't type this British before being outed. That still leaves us what you're calling a rubbish lynch tomorrow. In that case it doesn't stop a suboptimal lynch. That wording makes it sound like we'll just robo-lynch your target of choice and then have a normal lynch discussion concerning target #2, instead of just having a normal lynch discussion concerning the only lynch. I'm going to assume this is just poor wording or whatever, and not push this point. If Axle flips mafia, then we have one mafia left to find. I'd much rather lynch the scummiest two guys right away and increase our odds of hitting mafia right then, drastically, then save it for some hypothetical situation later when town might be in trouble and it's a desperation move, rather than it being an empowering move. I would say it amazes me that you can't see this stuff, or don't consider it more important than your arguments, but it doesn't at all, sadly. | ||
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On January 31 2013 10:10 yamato77 wrote: Hey axle gives us your reads for when you flip town Your lack of faith is disturbing. annul, answer Stutters' question already. Toad, I thought it might be a good idea to get everyone else to tell town who/why they want to lynch before we do. It can't hurt and it might give us extra information. | ||
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On January 31 2013 22:24 Toadesstern wrote: I'm going to tell the thread who the last mafia is 2 hours prior to deadline. I'm also going to jail him for maximum success. So make everyone spill out their reads if you want to, I'm not going to stay up until 2am. Why don't you tell us all this in the morning then instead of before the deadline? I'd prefer not to have some wifomy night action stuff again ;p And you can't possibly die, so there's no risk. | ||
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On January 31 2013 22:34 Toadesstern wrote: Because unlike you I have a set of balls and have no problem with calling my read. Yes I'm that certain about the guy being mafia. Ah, ok, thanks for being a complete twat. Np. | ||
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Day 1 Votecount FiveTouch - 7 DearestSnot FiveTouch debears JieXian mkfuba07 yamato77 prplhz austinmcc - 3 Oatsmaster austinmcc sandroba Chezinu - 1 grush57 Toadesstern - 4 Toadesstern Vivax Stutters695 djodref gonzaw - 3 Gonzaw mocsta axlegreaser Chezinu annul - 1 annul BroodkingEXE - 1 BroodkingEXE | ||
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On January 31 2013 22:44 Toadesstern wrote: I'm also not going to mason anyone anymore. Only useless people left Unless of course... someone being a mason who still hasn't masoned Marv? I might consider masoning you to proxy mason Marv that way. I don't think so... grush masoned me this cycle, and I think that's everybody accounted for? | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:12 austinmcc wrote: Didn't make sense to me with a single player, but I suppose it makes some sense as a faction-wide decision. Pass up the chance at control over the game to stay away from getting a player or two caught by virtue of weeding through the masons for mafia, and you can bring up that up lategame and try to get some mislynches on the virtue of mason-role only. Who do you want to be lynching on the morrow? | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:14 yamato77 wrote: It also makes grush look worse because he technically masoned people but never took advantage of it. I disagree, it makes grush look infinitely better. | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:23 austinmcc wrote: yamato. I wrote up some stuff on him last night, but I think it overall fits. I've finally got a bit more free time now, though, so I need to also look at a couple other players. He's the only one that I've taken an in-depth look at so far. Off the top of my head, I don't like a lynch on annul. Balance is a small point in favor of looking at newer players. He's also asked a couple questions at times where they didn't need to be asked by mafia, and then didn't push them hard. While they could have been for town points, in cases where they could be used to try and save a mafia buddy (Gonzaw masoning), he didn't push them and so didn't feel like he was trying to start a push for a save. I'll poke around fuba, stutters, and I guess what there is of adam, but yamato just looked baaaaaaaaad to me when I was trying to talk with him and filtering him. Yes, there's always the possibility that's how he plays, and I know he can tunnel and can be abrasive, but he's still on top of my list for the moment. So you want to lynch yamato despite what's just been discussed about the masons? | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:28 Toadesstern wrote: see, that's exactly the reasoning I wouldn't even mind posting the my final post exactly now. Have to do everything myself... But I can't post it right now, to many idiots running around. This has been blatantly untrue the entire game, so stop it. | ||
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On February 01 2013 01:43 austinmcc wrote: Unless you've got a history somewhere of blowing up masons whenever you can, this doesn't really do anything. Mafia already knew mocsta was a mason, because Chez himself was mafia. Your being mafia and knowing he was a mason wouldn't have changed their knowledge, and would have only mattered in the way you want it to here if you were some kind of super anti-mason zealot as mafia. It just seems that for someone who likes maths and logic like you, it's odd that you want to kill yamato, which would mean a) mafia had 4 masons to town's 3, and b) yamato as this extra mason on his own decided to mason people unlike the plan laid out by the rest of the team (apparently) | ||
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On February 01 2013 02:16 austinmcc wrote: Did we ever get an explanation for Chezinu telling mocsta in mason chat that "Grush like yam!" prior to Grush's masoning Yamato coming to light? Grush would mean the same mason split, and mocsta seemed to move around a bit last night cycle, but one of the things that pops out of his filter was him picking up on that line in his chat with Chez and how Chez seemed to have info that the thread didn't. I haven't seen anything yet. Yamato did you tell Chez that Grush had masoned you or had a townread on you or anything? Was probably referring to this: On January 20 2013 13:42 grush57 wrote: Wow yamato what a towny post. | ||
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I, the Mayor, approve of this Sheriffal message. I can't get annul out of my top 2. | ||
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do they really think we might think you're mafia? P.S. i am aware of the irony of my last post :p | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:19 Stutters695 wrote: If Toad jked annul doesn't that prove he can't be scum? yes i'm kinda drunk and as i was smoking a cigarette i realised this rofl now i'm going to get my wine out the fridge and forget about it until toad talks to us tomorrow also let's kill oats | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:22 austinmcc wrote: Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. What does that quote mean? | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:24 annul wrote: vivax who did you check? l2read On February 01 2013 10:06 Vivax wrote: Austin is indeed a veteran. Adam + Fuba? | ||
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On February 01 2013 10:32 Vivax wrote: and prplhz prplhz couldn't vote for anyone, or he almost condemns them immediately when i lynch him | ||
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You mean he'd have gotten a RB notification? Indeed. | ||
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On February 01 2013 20:54 Adam4167 wrote: So you think my master plan was to join the game, draw attention to my well-hidden and Godfather teammate with my first reads post, and then do it again when asked about bugs reads? Yeah, that's really not how I play scum, If i think my team is onto a good thing, id be keeping my mouth shut. I'm not actually sure I want to lynch you at all today, actually. But this post doesn't make sense. Toad & I were 100% lynching Axle if he wasn't medic, and it wouldn't matter if you made the best case ever on him or didn't mention him at all. | ||
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Hey Mafia! Please concede. It's impossible for you to win. There are a list of confirmed players we're never lynching, and then there's you. Here is the list of remaining players. FiveTouch Toad Vivax austin debears annul mkfuba adam grush oats We can lynch indiscriminately into the bottom list in no particular order and win. Further, Toad has a jail to prevent a KP. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:11 Toadesstern wrote: Well BC is slow with his notifications after alll... Not so sure what to make of some people. Both vivax and oats look way worse with that flip. But yeah as long as we can manage to get you and me into lylo we're fine :p No, that list is confirmed town. Mafia literally cannot win. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:13 FiveTouch wrote: No, that list is confirmed town. Mafia literally cannot win. EBWOP: for example, even if Vivax is mafia. If he is, he'll be left alive, and he'll have to keep giving us checks. We lynch him at LYLO-1, if he's mafia we win, if he's not mafia all his checks are confirmed and we win. So it makes no difference at all. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:16 Toadesstern wrote: yeah that's kind of what I meant because while it's still really likely he's town I wouldn't leave him alive if he happens to make it into lylo or lylo-1. But it doesn't matter. For the sake of the maths, Vivax being mafia or town is irrelevant. Mafia still cannot win. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:31 Vivax wrote: Oats could have elected gonzaw. Annul or some afk guy (clarity) didn't manage to pull that through. I'm in for annul, not so much for Oats yet. The question is, who would be killing off masons instead of a cop who keeps confirming towns for us? That's really dumb. The remaining mafia is really dumb. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:37 Toadesstern wrote: oats makes an awful lot of sense as a lynch as mafia still refuses to deal with FT and me by not shooting into bodyguards and we all know they can't win if they get into a 2v1 position with FT and me... Howver, he's still a bodyguard and I'd say we don't need to make it easier for mafia in case he's town. So I'd be all up for adam + mkfuba. Also I know Annul is someone who doesn't mind to all-in as mafia, so I'd say he would have voted gonzaw for his team if he was mafia. @FT: Stutters is more confirmed town than some of the people on your confirmed list. He voted me d1 when mafia pooled 3 guys on gonzaw just to come 1 vote short of making him sheriff.... There's no way that guy is mafia. No, it is kinda possible Stutters is mafia, just pretty unlikely. Everyone on the confirmed town list is confirmed by Vivax. We lynch Vivax at lylo-1 if we feel like it, and they're all confirmed immediately or we win. I agree Stutters is unlikely. imo we should lynch the people who are most likely to have thought it was a good idea to leave Vivax alive when it's the dumbest idea ever. You can confirm someone not-mafia tonight - mafia can't hold their kill otherwise we get an extra lynch. 2-1 is a victory for us whether we are alive or not. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:56 austinmcc wrote: I agree with leaving Vivax up until later, and playing the safer game there. But the "confirmed townie" list isn't as large as you're making it. It is, and it's this attitude that might stop mafia from conceding. Anyway, here's my notes I drew up: 10-1 FiveTouch Toad Vivax austin debears annul mkfuba adam grush oats stutters 8-1, 7-1 - Toad confirms someone not mafia (say Stutters) FiveTouch Toad debears austin stutters adam grush oats 6-1, 5-1 FiveTouch Toad austin stutters Oats grush 4-1, 3-1 FiveTouch Toad Stutters Oats Lynch for the win. Note, if mafia hold their shot so Stutters (or whoever Toad jails) isn't confirmed, there's 2 lynches at the end and not just 1. In case Vivax is mafia: 10-1 FiveTouch Toad Vivax austin debears annul mkfuba adam grush oats stutters 8-1, 7-1 - Vivax confirms Stutters FiveTouch Toad Vivax austin stutters adam grush oats 6-1, 5-1 - Vivax confirms grush FiveTouch Toad Vivax stutters grush Oats Lynch Vivax + Oats next 2 days, game over. | ||
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On February 01 2013 22:59 mkfuba07 wrote: There's no need to kill the cop when he can only make you confirmed town. What does this even mean? | ||
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If there is a 3rd godfather I'm never playing in a BC game again | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:17 Toadesstern wrote: well I'd say a 3rd godfather is more likely than stutters and grush being mafia to be honest Toad, I think we should kill Oats and fuba. Us being protected is irrelevant now. I think these 2 have the best chance to flip mafia. | ||
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(i'm clever enough to only say it today due to forum being on KST time. Like a fucking boss) | ||
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##Vote: Oatsmaster I kinda agree with Adam's self-analysis tbh. He's not posting like he normally does as mafia, even if he did break promises to come back and contribute. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:21 Toadesstern wrote: screw you I want my pretty ass protected You'll still be protected. We need to lynch guys we think are mafia. In addition, they'll kill me before you because I have the extra votes. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:23 Toadesstern wrote: I have the jail There are two bodyguards alive now. You should be jailing soon to confirm a not-mafia anyway. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:25 Vivax wrote: What if debears is actually the third godfather and crumbed it in early game to make fun of us? His other song was a Backstreet boys song. I don't think godfathers listen to backstreet boys. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:28 Toadesstern wrote: anyways I'm off now, for real. I'd really like to not lynch oats although I have him down as the #1 or #2 mafiaread as well... just doesn't sound like the right thing to do for today. Sorry Toad, lynching top mafia read is the right thing to do. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:38 Vivax wrote: Dunno, I don't like lynching fuba atm. Yeah, but I do. Plus he's just trolling us at the moment, look. | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:42 Vivax wrote: Ok, sheep for a day. That will drastically reduce my Schwartz I promise I won't ever mention it again... | ||
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On February 01 2013 23:45 Vivax wrote: wat I won't ever mention that you sheeped my lynch choices ^^ | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:10 annul wrote: also, i would really like to lynch toad. and in fact i am going to do so. people have just given him an absolute pass due to his sheriff position. he has made some anti-town decisions and some very strange plays all game such that i would not be surprised if he got into power as a red. i also will vote adam because of day 1 shenanigans re: election votes etc. one of these two are red. Your reads are irrelevant. You die tomorrow if somehow those 2 flip town. I find it staggering that a veteran player can be as bad as you've been this game. He's not been given an "absolute pass", he's been calling out mafia all game. On January 26 2013 00:21 annul wrote: debears, grush, toad, BKE 3/4 are mafia calling it now Just whatever | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:19 annul wrote: ive done very well this game given my role and the circumstances. you've attacked no mafia at all all game | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:25 annul wrote: fucking bullshit i bombed chez, i attacked axle you voted Axle halfway through the day begrudgingly after the vote was already sealed you put a bomb on the guy everyone else wanted to lynch already and tried to prevent us lynching mafia top job all round | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:35 Toadesstern wrote: name one and I will ignore that I have been: telling people to lynch into either oats / prplhz d1 telling people to lynch into chez / BKE d2, changing to gonzaw once the red flip came in telling people to lynch into chez / BKE d3 was the guy to tell everyone to lynch axle d4. if you're able to do that I'll just lynch you without being mean. *coughs loudly* On January 29 2013 19:24 Toadesstern wrote: That being said Axle isn't a medic although he claimed it 4 times in a thread, so he's back to null to me. On January 29 2013 21:01 FiveTouch wrote: Then we should absolutely be lynching Axle. His activity has dropped off a cliff. ##Vote: Axlegreaser | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:41 austinmcc wrote: I don't think it's time to lynch into elected officials yet. But yeah, neither elected dude is actually "confirmed." There is still the chance that one of you is the remaining scum and figured that once you got elected you could bus yourself to endgame. Everything right now is circumstantial, and we're not yet at a point where mafia FT puts us at endgame, but we need to be aware of that. It's one explanation for why a claimed cop has been left alive - neither of you can be checked, so part of the risk to mafia of an active cop is gone. It's one explanation for why Gonzaw didn't get pushed over the top into an elected position - mafia already had one of the spots (For all the talk about what would/wouldn't have looked suspicious, they could have voted him harder earlier on, it's not like they HAD to last-minute vote like Chez did). We need to have some words after the game, austin dearest. | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:50 austinmcc wrote: I held it in this long! I've only been internally paranoid, and i DON'T want to lynch into you guys yet. You've got to admit that you're not afraid to bus teammates. You've got to admit that an elected position provides cover from the policy lynches you've been receiving - mafia would have had to expend a lot more than normal to kill you early. You have ridden town cred to scum victory before, being right in your reads. Yes, but it's retarded. Just look at my play. The same argument I made for Toad being town could have been made for me, by the way. As Axle's team-mate obviously I tell him to claim medic... By the way, It's one explanation for why Gonzaw didn't get pushed over the top into an elected position - mafia already had one of the spots Given 3/5 of the mafia were on gonzaw, looks like they were trying pretty hard to get gonzaw into a position. | ||
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On February 02 2013 00:57 Toadesstern wrote: screw this, let's lynch Annul first. Who are you on right now FT? Was it fuba + oats? I'm willing to let go of Adam for 1 or 2 days although I don't give a crap about anything meta a player is able to figure out himself because if they're aware of it they can just not do it as mafia... There's being able to figure it out, and there's being able to do something about it. If you look at all Adam's games, he's reserved, lurky (more so than here), and detached. Even when you 'figure this out', it's very hard to fake not being all these things, because they're emotional, attitude things. Most people aren't like you and me (or gonzaw, bugs) where we're very good at being able to fake town emotions for quite a long time. | ||
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The problem is not even that you've been constantly wrong - it's that even when led to the correct solution, you fight about it and refuse to go along with it. It's horrible :/ Technically it's possible for Toad or me to be mafia. Realistically, it's almost impossible. | ||
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So we leave Oats alive today, then they kill Vivax? Then what do we do? Or we leave Oats alive today, and they kill debears? Then what? | ||
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We just lynch down my list and win. Oats/fuba today, annul the next day, grush the next, Adam the next. Something like that. In between you confirm someone as not-mafia OR give us an extra lynch (same difference) if mafia withold their kill. It's really easy and people need to stop overcomplicating. | ||
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On February 02 2013 01:26 Vivax wrote: Toad, don't try to fool my memory, you said you would mason Bugs after the night he would get killed.. Toad masoned bugs day 2 | ||
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On February 02 2013 01:25 FiveTouch wrote: I'm not really willing to consider a 3 GF scenario in an already-nerfed setup for town. I don't think BC is that bad at balancing. We just lynch down my list and win. Oats/fuba today, annul the next day, grush the next, Adam the next. Something like that. In between you confirm someone as not-mafia OR give us an extra lynch (same difference) if mafia withold their kill. It's really easy and people need to stop overcomplicating. | ||
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On February 02 2013 01:48 mkfuba07 wrote: When I voted double lynch I really didn't expect us to just settle for a double mislynch. Scum austin answers every question. You think there's 3 godfathers in a setup which already required one less mislynch for mafia to win? | ||
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On February 02 2013 01:51 mkfuba07 wrote: I do. It filled in all my blanks. So at this point in the game, where the guy you sheep as town every single game, and you've done so this entire game - you now suddenly won't sheep me on my plan, despite the fact it guarantees victory, and you won't listen to me that austin is town? Does that cover it? | ||
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On February 02 2013 01:57 mkfuba07 wrote: It does. I think you're wrong. While I wouldn't oppose your plan, since I'm almost positive we'd win anyway if we follow it, I think we can win this cycle. There's also the kind of strong personal motivation for me to not be mislynched because it's never happened before, and I like being able to say that XD This makes no sense. According to my plan, austin doesn't get lynched because he's in the confirmed list. Scumslip? | ||
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On February 02 2013 02:01 mkfuba07 wrote: How is that a scumslip? It makes perfect sense. You would go through the "unconfirmed" townies first, realize that they're all dead, be left with yourself and toad, and end up lynching austin eventually. It would take like, 3-4 days or something, but you'd eventually get it right. This saves us that time. Because as I very clearly laid out, we don't have infinite amount of lynches. We have the perfect amount of lynches to lynch all the unconfirmeds. | ||
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Except no. | ||
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On February 02 2013 03:10 mkfuba07 wrote: The remaining scum isn't afraid of a DT. They found a mason who was tunneling austin to be a more important NK. What does that mean to you? It means I super-duper pinky-homo promise to look into austin very hard if you and Oats flip town. | ||
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On February 02 2013 03:31 mkfuba07 wrote: Ugh. Either way, I've proven that it's not impossible for mafia to win. This method is flawed, and we're being lazy. Didn't you say that the double lynch was supposed to get people talking? This is the exact opposite of what you proposed. And you're lynching the only person who's doing any talking. Only under the premise that there's 3 godfathers, which I outright refuse to accept. So no ^^ | ||
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On February 02 2013 06:15 austinmcc wrote: Mostly bad. Some slight misfortune imo in terms of D1. Chez being mafia makes me thinking he shouldn't be dismissed as a mayoral candidate look bad, whereas it wouldn't if he'd been town. Hmmm, nope, most of the rest of the stuff is actual badness. This just shows that you still haven't grasped the error of your thinking. Electing Chezinu is bad because you can't get a solid read on him day 1. The fact he flips mafia merely proved it in this case; if he flipped town the principle would have stood just the same. | ||
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So I was right all along. | ||
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that's ok, fuba. you were collateral damage at the end <3 | ||
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On February 02 2013 07:41 Toadesstern wrote: nah. Sandro and I wanted oats dead d1 instead of prplhz. You and me wanted BKE and Chez dead d2 instead of oats, We all wanted the same guys dead just in a different order :p And it turned out all of them were mafia. don't even start. you all tried to talk me out of lynching oats on day 2 :o wp toad, wp bugs, wp town, apart from the kicking and screaming :D | ||
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On February 02 2013 07:48 Vivax wrote: Well played anyway, you are heroes for not mislynching me. Special props to marv for hitting scum like a truck. And others for knowing when he was right. The thing is, it's almost impossible for mafia to keep up being a douche for 20+ pages, so you had to be town really. No offence | ||
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On February 02 2013 08:10 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Yo fuba, I thought you were obvious town. No worries buddy. Was a fun game to observe. I dropped in when Sandro talked to me about it. Scum had some mindbogglingly bad decisions this game, but overall it was entertaining Presuming you're Acro, I came across a post in obsQT where you were calling me mafia. My brain boggled. | ||
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On February 03 2013 04:34 wherebugsgo wrote: wait what, I didn't push any scum lynch? So me pushing prpl, chez, and gonzaw was not pushing scum? lol You've seriously been underplaying yourself in this post-game. You're not "terrible town" at all, just because you had a few bad town games. You led me to prplhz, and you were the main pusher of Chez. Your only mistake at all was Oats. I also relied on you particularly heavily for your austin read. We both read the situation the same, but at the point there were like 4 players all heavily attacking austin, it was knowing that you had agreed with me that led me to be confident and hard-defend austin during that stage of the game. That was really, really, helpful. You were killed off first in Bureaucracy, and early here - on your game, you are definitely a 'power player'. ! | ||
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