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On January 24 2013 06:12 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 06:05 DearestSnot wrote:
Who is the player he is talking about, and which game? If it certainly is a lie then we should just kill him for it. Why don't you start with FT and gonzaw saying that yamato didn't post a candidacy for mayor then?
On January 20 2013 13:50 yamato77 wrote:
I never said I wasn't running for mayor. If you guys want to elect me for my efforts today, I'm not going to stop you.
On January 21 2013 09:34 yamato77 wrote:
Put a gun to my head right now and I lynch you**[Vivax]**. Town makes me mayor and I fulfill that promise.
That is the entirety of yamato "posting a candidacy for mayor"
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On January 24 2013 06:20 Vivax wrote:
Nice, so we've come to define candidacy.
If it isn't "make me mayor and I do x", what is it then?
Putting any effort into actually running, or asking for votes.
Vivax, make me a cat and I will lie in the sun and be lazy.
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On January 24 2013 06:19 DearestSnot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 06:18 austinmcc wrote:On January 24 2013 06:12 Vivax wrote:On January 24 2013 06:05 DearestSnot wrote:
Who is the player he is talking about, and which game? If it certainly is a lie then we should just kill him for it. Why don't you start with FT and gonzaw saying that yamato didn't post a candidacy for mayor then? On January 20 2013 13:50 yamato77 wrote:
I never said I wasn't running for mayor. If you guys want to elect me for my efforts today, I'm not going to stop you. On January 21 2013 09:34 yamato77 wrote:
Put a gun to my head right now and I lynch you**[Vivax]**. Town makes me mayor and I fulfill that promise. That is the entirety of yamato "posting a candidacy for mayor" don't bother feeding the troll. Difference in playstyle/opinion.
We know he's not a pure troll from past games. Therefore, he's trying to do something for some reason. I'd rather it be a productive thing/somehow convince him that this isn't being productive than ignore it.
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So you, and either only you or perhaps you and others, know of 2 masons, one claimed mason (Toad), and one mason/JOAT (Grush).
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On January 24 2013 06:26 FiveTouch wrote:
That sounds about right. Although you do put it slightly confusingly.
Yeah, sorry.
Toad has claimed mason. We have logs from his chats with Sandro, but for today we can only assume he masoned again, although it appears likely that he did. Therefore, he could be a mason, but still could be a JOAT.
Yamato claimed that grush masoned him. This makes no sense if grush didn't, so we can assume grush masoned yamato. We do not know if grush has masoned anyone today. Grush could be a mason or a JOAT.
2 people apparently masoned Chezinu yesterday, and have also masoned you today. They have masoned more than once, so they can only be masons.
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On January 24 2013 06:33 DearestSnot wrote:
grush's mason is definitely the weirdest. He basically just masoned yamato and afked. Why yamato?
I don't see why a scum team would give him a mason role and then use it but not really use it, though. It's confusing. I actually thought about it earlier.
If you're mafia and you've got a mason role to use, you're probably going to do so. No sense passing up a role. But maybe you worry, or some portion of your team worries, that a mafia mason will eventually be outed because they'll slip in mason chats, or nobody feels comfortable handling the role of mafia mason.
Most people find grush unreadable. Perhaps you give him that role, because you assume people won't catch him slipping in mason chats, and that he can just be grush in mason chats as well as he can be grush in game.
I don't like that argument because you're still essentially voiding the power by using it to do more or less nothing. But in terms of "who is the least at risk to get found out because of mason communication," Grush seems like a likely option.
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On January 24 2013 06:40 DearestSnot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 06:35 austinmcc wrote:On January 24 2013 06:33 DearestSnot wrote:
grush's mason is definitely the weirdest. He basically just masoned yamato and afked. Why yamato?
I don't see why a scum team would give him a mason role and then use it but not really use it, though. It's confusing. I actually thought about it earlier. If you're mafia and you've got a mason role to use, you're probably going to do so. No sense passing up a role. But maybe you worry, or some portion of your team worries, that a mafia mason will eventually be outed because they'll slip in mason chats, or nobody feels comfortable handling the role of mafia mason. Most people find grush unreadable. Perhaps you give him that role, because you assume people won't catch him slipping in mason chats, and that he can just be grush in mason chats as well as he can be grush in game. I don't like that argument because you're still essentially voiding the power by using it to do more or less nothing. But in terms of "who is the least at risk to get found out because of mason communication," Grush seems like a likely option. right, but the scumteam gets to choose to whom they give the mason role. Why would they give it to grush over someone else? Just so that he has some minor thing to claim in case he gets suspected? Grush is not going to do anything with it regardless of his alignment, perhaps he might do more with it if he were town, who knows. I think it would be dangerous to assume that all the masons are town. It's possible we have only seen a subset of the masons, or that scum chose not to use the mason roles. However, in light of those who have claimed mason and if FT is to be believed then we should really try to get something out of grush. Someone should shoot him, IMO. (although we may not have a vigi and in that case it's just better to simply get him lynched)
Oh no, there's no way that all masons are town. Heck, right now I'm scummy on grush just because usually he participates and does whatever, whereas this time he's just not doing anything. But if I, or anyone else, thinks he's scum, that has to be reconciled with the fact that either he's a mason or JOAT OR both grush and yamato are scum (otherwise no reason for yamato to lie).
I see no reason for yamato to lie, for them to out two members just...to say that grush can mason? So I'll assume he actually had mason powers (especially given that we had 3 NKs and nobody claimed one, so it's likely that the third KP was a mafia JOAT). If he's scum, he got them for a reason, and that's all I could come up with for why mafia would put him as a mason over someone else. It doesn't lock into place and cause everything to make sense, but ... it's all I can come up with.
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On January 24 2013 06:55 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 06:54 FiveTouch wrote:On January 24 2013 06:54 Vivax wrote:
And what makes you think he isn't a bad townie? The fact he plays nothing like this as town is a good one. You know, the lack of suspicion/aggression that I mention in the very post you're replying to, if you're able to read. And you see him posting such a defence of a now town JX?
Posting a defense at an odd time, or defending someone on odd grounds, is not an uncommon thing for scum to get caught for.
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On January 24 2013 06:57 Vivax wrote:
Why would mafia do that at that point?
Don't say they do that all the time, it's dogmatic bullshit. I can't remember everyone I've noticed it on, but I know for SURE it was what I noticed about Node in Liquid City. I think there have been other recent times where looking for that, specifically, found mafia (although not 100%).
Mafia do it because they see an attack on someone they know to be town. Maybe it's a weak attack, maybe strong, whatever. You both inherently know the person is town AND you know that you want some cred throughout the game, so maybe you post a defense. Except you're coming from the land of "I know that person is not scum and is being wrongly attacked" rather than "I don't think that guy is scum/those are legitimate points against him," and so your posts defending a guy may be markedly different than what a townie would post in the same situation.
It's just...you're coming from that different angle, driven by a slightly different force, so you may just post a defense that looks out of place.
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On January 24 2013 07:04 FiveTouch wrote:
Right, austin. And in this case it was attacking the non-existent bandwagon, and saying that we shouldn't 'vilify' him so quickly. As is evidenced by my opening post in the thread, it's what jumped out at me immediately. Oh yeah, was directing that at vivax trying to get him to be vivax and not this.
I didn't like that point enough early on because i disagreed with the contradiction concerning lurkers/his mayoral vote. Disagreeing with that point is what we discussed most heavily, when the odd defense is something I normally jump on, but just got pushed to the background here.
I'm on board with scumoats, although I'd like to read over everything that's been said about him today for another time.
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FiveTouch, one thought:
If you have two non-Toad, non-Grush masons in contact with you, and both contacted Chezinu D1, that is something that points towards a townie Chezinu to me. Neither of them outed themselves to the thread, and we know that mafia has a MAX of two people who can ever mason.
If those two are mafia masons, chezinu is almost certainly not mafia (barring some ENORMOUS mindfuck play on their part like scumtoad and scumsand COULD have done D1). No reason for BOTH mafia masons, including the guy who only has 1 shot, to mason a scumbuddy.
If those two aren't, and only 1 or 0 are mafia, then Chezinu knew the identity of 1-2 town masons D1. Mafia could have killed a mason with basically no repercussions N1, AND given that you have both as strong town reads, it's possible that one of the masons was a strong townie D1. Passing up the chance to kill someone who is a mason AND a decent townread seems farfetched.
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On January 24 2013 08:40 Vivax wrote:
Can Chezinu the brown try to bring some clarity into the mason matter obfuscated by the corrupt mayor? Mafia has a max of 1 mason and 1 day of masoning from a JOAT. Mason is a strong role.
At MOST, if both were actually in contact with Chezinu, one of the masons is town and one is scum. The other possibility is both town. Unless they're going for a giant mindfuck, we can be CERTAIN that him outing the masons he is in contact with today means outing town masons.
That is bad.
PARANOIA - + Show Spoiler +It is entirely possible that there are not two masons in contact with FT today and he's just fishing for reactions/thoughts.
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On January 24 2013 08:52 Vivax wrote:
If Chezinu doesn't play along and also comment on the alleged lie he made I don't think I can feel confident about what you're thinking now austin.
Regardless of whether he lied or not, the following things are absolutely true.
Mafia has 0-1 masons
Mafia has 0-1 JOATs
Mafia JOATs have 1 day of mason power
If both players spoke with Chezinu and with FT, then at least one of the players speaking to FT today is a town mason.
If both players did NOT speak with Chezinu and with FT, then: (1) one of those players AND Chezinu are scum [two players outed - a mafia JOAT and Chezinu as mafia buddy]; or (2) FT is scum/lying [and either isn't masoned today with 2 people
So if you want FT to out the masons, EITHER FT is already scum or lying and can continue to do so OR you out at least one town mason.
For...what? Us to have their identities? That'd be nice, but that's not an upside that justifies naming them.
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On January 24 2013 08:58 DearestSnot wrote:
stop assuming things about the number of mafia masons, the number is unclear according to the language in the OP.
Shhhh...I are read good.
DISREGARD ALL THIS CRAP I'VE POSTED IN THE LAST HOUR
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So, this is late, but I read over Gonzaw's stuff today and some interactions with Gonzaw. Couple major takeaways.
Gonzaw still feels town. The biggest thing that stuck out to me was his return to the thread. Spoilered with commentary: + Show Spoiler +Some votes have built up against Gonzaw. There are people who think that Gonzaw is scummy (vivax, oats, and debears at least) as well as a repeated thought that there's likely scum between annul/Gonzaw based on vet status and scum having a mayor candidate). So the context of this exchange is that Gonzaw is under a bit of in-game pressure, as well as a bit of setup-speculation-related pressure. At 4:07 TL time, Gonzaw posts: On January 24 2013 04:07 gonzaw wrote:
Well I'm here, but I'm still catching up on the thread.
I am not sure why I'm suddenly discussed as D2 lynch today for no reason (what I managed to skim), but I won't be lynched today if town doesn't derp. Vivax has been going on and on about yamato - + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:10 Vivax wrote:Scum Yamato, british empire mm+ Show Spoiler +On January 08 2013 11:41 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 08 2013 11:27 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 11:19 yamato77 wrote:CC's defense of his admittedly scummy okay this game is this: On January 08 2013 05:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 05:04 Hapahauli wrote:On January 08 2013 04:59 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On January 08 2013 04:31 Hapahauli wrote:
In school right now - interested to hear a reply to dp's case, as well as scumreads In terms of DP's case.. It's alright. He's wrong, but I'm pretty scummy and much of the argument does hold water. However, I'm fairly disinterested with the pressure on me right now. I don't think I'll be lynched tomorrow, and I won't sit here and waste time deflecting every point brought against me. We can all settle on the fact that I'm super scummy right now, and that's fine with me. I would like you to be concerned, because I'm interested in hearing you defend what looks like a reasonable case against you. His main point is that I just "heap shit on weak players". I don't know how you'd like me to defend that, because it's true. Some people need shit heaped on them to start doing stuff. Most of it is based on my shitty stream post, which, as all indicates, heaps shit on players. I heap some shit here and there, it's all fine. I want answers. And if you have to dig your way out that's perfectly fine with me. The thread has been pathetically inactive for how long the game has been going. If I have to make myself seem scummy to generate some sort of response, well here we have it. Problem is, I haven't heard from players that are really concerning like SP or Yamato. He says he has to be scummy because its the only way to move the thread forward. Again, how is this indicative of a town mindset? If he's town, why does he want to intentionally look scummy so that town wastes time and effort looking at him? No, he's much more likely to be scum baiting town into lynching him while thinking they won't because "scum wouldn't look so scummy". Furthermore, how is his play supposed to generate useful discussion? This whole post looks like post-hoc rationalization, a trademark of scum behavior. If he wanted to move the thread forward meaningfully, why didn't he do so by actually making substantiated cases on his reads with evidence to back up his cutesy one-liners? Because he's full of shit and he knows it. It took you an hour to dig up that? I am disappoint. If you really thought I was scum you would have had that in 10 minutes tops. Oh, and you seemed to have missed the part where I said I wasn't intentionally looking scummy, it was just a bi-product of my shenanigans to get answers. You know, the post after that in my filter. Try harder please, Yamato. Why am I scummy? This is just an extension of the "You aren't promoting useful discussion" argument. Excuse me for having other things to do in my life besides prove to town that you are scum. Are you going to do anything today besides defend yourself? Poorly,I might add. I bring up plenty of points besides just the useful discussion point. You cannot deny it looks like straight up post-hoc rationale. You didn't intend to look scummy with your shit but now that you do and you realize people see it that way you're making up bullshit excuses for your shit play. I'm dine with reading your useless posts. It is in town's best interest to see you hang. ##Vote: Mr Cheesecake On January 08 2013 07:48 yamato77 wrote:Is your only response to my suspicion of you "lol"? Let's say I vote you tomorrow with case attached, are you going to just lol that too? Fucking useless. On January 06 2013 19:02 yamato77 wrote:
Xatalos what the fuck is that post?
How is Shiao voting for a lurker who eventually got replaced scummy? He wants him to be more active, and somehow that's scum motivated?
His stances are not weak. He's been putting pressure on me since he made the post, and he wants to do so to you. It's not like he's just saying shit to say it.
And then this gem
"I guess it's about time to finally cast a vote"
Or in other words:
"I'm going to put this riiiiight here. Hopefully town doesn't think I'm scummy for this!"
That shit is weak, bro. On December 21 2012 06:07 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 06:06 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
Of course I'm going to shit on the people voting for me, because I'm town and most of them are lacking justification or are just voting for idiotic reasons. It's pretty frustrating to have to argue against your lynch when half the justification behind it is because Palmar said so. I told you why I'm voting for you and your responses didn't help anything. I have plenty of reason. Other people may have read this and thought the same things. Why is sheeping people with good reads a bad thing anyway? On December 21 2012 06:11 yamato77 wrote:
Convince me on Vivax then. If he's so scummy make an updated case with more content. All you've done is post your read and then ask everyone else what they thought of your read. That doesn't feel like scum hunting to me. On December 21 2012 06:19 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 06:10 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On December 21 2012 06:06 yamato77 wrote:On December 21 2012 06:02 Mr. Wiggles wrote:On December 21 2012 05:57 yamato77 wrote:
Also if you're going to pick a target to counter wagon with your "This is who I would kill tomorrow when I flip town" idea, you really shouldn't pick someone like Palmar. I'm far more likely to believe him today than you. That being said, if you somehow flip town I will certainly kill Palomar tomorrow.
But if you want to not get lynched today you need to do better than that. Vivax was a good start but you aren't convincing enough with this "LOOK AT MY VIVAX POST GUYS HE'S TOTES SCUM" and then pointing your finger at Palmar immediately afterward. Are you dumb, or do you just not read? That wasn't my idea, that was Toad asking me a question and me answering. Also, you're contradicting yourself. Toad asked me when I flipped town who town should kill tomorrow. I said Palmar. You just called me out for saying that, and then you said that when I flip town, you'll kill Palmar tomorrow. What the hell? I have not said once that we need to lynch Palmar today, you guys are acting fucking stupid. So then you're just calling Palmar suspicious all the time just for shits and giggles? Because if you don't want to vote for him then that means you're just blowing hot air which is exactly what I've said you were doing. Holy. Shit. I'm calling him suspicious because I think he's fucking suspicious. I said that if he keeps being suspicious, we lynch him. It's other people who keep bringing that point up and asking me to elaborate on it. Are you not allowed to think people are suspicious without voting for them? I mean, you're voting for me, but you said WBG is scum too, but you're not voting for WBG right now, so obviously you must be full of crap, right? The differ pence is focus. You keep saying Vivax is scum but you've spent a lot more time discrediting Palmer than pushing your read on Vivax. You are not scum hunting. You are throwing shit at a town player. This is my point. I'm not being hypocritical because my focus is squarely set on you. You're scum, I'm voting for you, and I'm pushing my read and defending the case. You are doing none of these things. Wiggles was really mafia in this game when yamato was talking to him. As you see, two different styles of talking to his scumreads. But check his meta for yourself guys. and asks Gonzaw about Gonzaw's feelings on Vivax's reads - On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote:
Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads? On January 24 2013 04:23 Vivax wrote:
Doesn't need that much time to read the little bit I wrote about yamato right? Why don't you do a quickie on that? While Vivax is questioning him, Gonzaw drops his first real return post at 4:20 TL time, a response to Oats - + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:20 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Gonzaw,
Not following up on questions and scumreads makes you scum because you just ask those questions for the sake of asking questions and not to find scum I asked those questions to get info from people, which they did (I think, I don't remember much), and to get a better read on Stutters/Clarity if people had anything valuable to add. Show nested quote +You better actually read my filter though. "Never questions Vivax at all"....? How is this either true, or relevant?
I mentioned later Vivax's "all or nothing" play seemed more likely to be town, so it was better to just ignore all the shit he was saying and tell him to stop it.
Do you understand the meaning of questioning? It means to directly ask someone something. Mentioning that he is a townread without following up on your point seems scummy because it looks like you are just making conversation and following the flow of the thread. Why did you expect me to "question" Vivax? Why Vivax out of everybody? I don't see how this is relevant at all. Show nested quote +Oatsmaster:
Testing the waters on whether he should push a stutters or clarity lynch.
Gonzaw:
How does that make sense in a mayor election D1? :/
Because people will also vote for the mayor because they agree with the lynch that the mayor pushes, so if the thread generally thinks that stutters or clarity is scum, you can push their lynch as part of your campaign. It obviously doesn't work that way, if I was mayor I could lynch whoever the fuck I want, whether people "agree" with it or not. If I was just "testing the waters" to "gain support", then it doesn't work that way either. You don't elect a mayor just because he's pressuring someone you agree is pressuring. And whether this works this way or not, how do you suddenly conclude this is what I did as, in your mind, scum mayor? This is all confirmation bias from your part, "ah, if gonzaw was a scum mayor, then he could have been 'testing the waters' with what he was posting!". Show nested quote +Overall, it seems like Gonzaw thinks that im bad, OMGUS, and just discredits my case that way. Wow, this misses the point so much it hurts. Oats, you out of nowhere said "There is mafia in the mayor candidates!", randomly chose me, and started using heavy confirmation bias. The "bad" thing is your case, I never called you bad. The point is that it's hard as shit for me to think you believe the shit you are saying. Your "case" on me comes out of nowhere, has basically no valid point at all, yet it's somehow enough for you to instantly believe I'm scum. There's no thought process of yours stating why you had this change of stance on me (i.e why you suddenly think I'm suspicious as fuck), and had basically no reasoning at all behind it. You just hopped on someone's ass to ride along and tunnel, without seemingly caring if he's actually scum or not. There was always the chance you were just "bad" with your initial case, but it doesn't seem to be the case since you are not following up on it at all, and are just using it as an excuse to jump on my ass, and apparently on the bandwagon that can be formed on me. Yeah, I can't see you doing that as town at all Oats. Specially not after the shit JingleHell pulled on me on Aperture 2; I won't fall for that again. As far as your "meta" goes, I don't really like looking at lots of past games unless I'm not actually sure about someone's else alignment; but briefly skimming what other's posted about your previous town/scum games is even more incriminating in my mind. ##Vote: OatsMasterOat's attacks on me can't come from a townie, period. I'd prefer lynching him today, and maybe leaving annul for a vig. Hopefully there was a vig last night and he decided to hold his shot. If not we can kill him with the double-lynch tomorrow, which (in my mind) is there for that reason. Just in case some people still want to lynch me, I'll address the things said against me in a few minutes. . Post is decent-sized, we can assume that Gonzaw spent a decent part of the time between 4:07 and 4:20 writing that/responding to some of the suspicion on him. What really got me was that, as he's returning to thread and responding to SOME of the stuff that popped up on him, at least oats's suspicions, Gonzaw also responds to Vivax's pestering: On January 24 2013 04:21 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 04:18 Vivax wrote:
Hey gonzaw, what do you think about my current scumreads? Haven't read the whole read to check what they are, and don't have much time right now. When I finish reading the thread and responding to people I'll check them out. On January 24 2013 04:29 gonzaw wrote:I don't think yamato is scum, because he is heavily involved in discussions, was pretty active on D1, yet didn't seem to try and push a scum agenda (for instance get elected as scum mayor, or try to get a scum mayor elected) I'm not really seeing this, but I'm not paying that much attention right now. Those 3 quotes of town/scum games don't tell me much at first glance On January 24 2013 04:38 gonzaw wrote:
Are you serious?
If he was scum, he'd try to get elected as scum mayor, specially since he did try to get elected at one point in time, based on his activity and how he was playing at the time
Holy shit Vivax Three responses, actually reading Vivax's stuff and responding, while we can assume writing this bit that was posted at 4:43 TL time, a response to the concerns of FiveTouch, Bugs, and Toad: + Show Spoiler +On January 24 2013 04:43 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 23:29 FiveTouch wrote:
Anyway, gonzaw. His prplhz stuff looks bad, although to be fair he's not the only one. The problem with gonzaw is that he should really know better. What do you mean by "should know better"? prplhz obviously wasn't a "bad lynch" by D1 by any standards. I just felt it was mostly a shot in the dark, he could flip scum or town. Thus I didn't feel he would be a good lynch on D1 ahead of other people I felt WAY more confident on, like Oats, and some people that I was not that sure (because their lack of activity basically) but still felt more confident on, like Stutters, and maybe Clarity. Show nested quote +There's one other post I've had written down since I read it in Day 1, On January 21 2013 14:35 gonzaw wrote:On January 21 2013 14:26 Mocsta wrote:
@gonsaw
toad gave reasons for vivax being town. I thought they were subjectve as fuck.
From memory the stand out reasoning was howw he could post his campaign and be active in qt if scum
there is no fcuking way vivax typed that first post afyer the game started.. It was premade and in no way is indicative of alignment. If toads disagrees wit this then his reads overall should be put into question.
Btw with a premade case...it might make sense to take a breather if u rolled scum and needed to plan.
But.. Why listen to me. Im not a vet and so to toad my opinion doesnt matter Well, I had my "campaign" post premade as well + Show Spoiler +Well, actually I had another one premade, but before the game started I lost it so I had to make it again when the game started  I have a feeling Vivax may have done something similar. There's this gut feeling that tells me scum Vivax wouldn't instantly post that campaign post as soon as the game started if he saw his "You are scum!" Pm in his inbox, and maybe likely wouldn't even post it at all (and just trash it). It's speculation based on what I would think scum Vivax would do, which may not be much but it doesn't mean what Toad said is "completely bullshit". I didn't like the bolded at all, casually suggesting he wouldn't have ran for mayor as mafia. I absolutely believe gonzaw would run for mayor as mafia, so this looks quite bad to me. Well, I don't really know how you would take that, but it's true. I didn't push a mayor candidacy on me on pre-game, and that obviously happened before I got my role PM. At the time I was thinking "I want to be mayor so bad....but if I flip scum I may regret going all in about a mayor candidacy on pre-game, it basically forces me to run for mayor as scum, no matter what" I dunno if I would have run as mayor as scum, maybe I would. It would heavily depend on what team I was in (for instance I dont' think I'd seriously run as mayor if my scumteam was you+wbg+sandro for instance). That could be WIFOM and I have no way of saying if I would or not....so yeah I don't think we should really dwell on that to be honest.
Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 12:09 DearestSnot wrote:
I like gonzaw for a lynch actually.
I feel like some of the things he has said are almost too dumb from a town gonzaw. In particular, his opposition to the prplhz lynch, while he somewhat supported Oats, and his opinions all game have been really neutral. I don't believe I've seen him taken a hard stance on really anything, and he is not really that proactive about his reads or his pushes. I always get the "gonzaw seems too dumb to be town" thing often, but I seriously can't see what I'm doing "dumb" this game (in contrast to, for instance, my derps in Can't Believe). I think you are rushing this too much. You don't even seem to believe I'm scum with this. I take it it's the whole night kill issue and my comments, which I can easily explain to avoid misunderstandings. If I seem "neutral" at times (which I don't really see, maybe with some players like annul/BKE/lurkers/etc last night), then...well I dunno. If I am indeed at points, it may be because this is a big game and it's harder for me to keep up than minis, and I prefer to "waste my time" being in the thread and seeing/being part of interactions/discussions. I'm too lazy at times to reread filters in big games and make "in-depth" analysis Show nested quote +His mayoral campaign was what...he'd be transparent? Posting a lot is not the same as being transparent, particularly as I don't even remember what his lynch candidate was. My mayoral campaing was that I'd try to establish my innocent and hunt scum, like I do every time I'm town. Yes, I always try to be transparent when town as well. Don't know why you don't feel like I was, I think I was. My lynch candidate, or rather "who I wanted Five to lynch", was Oats on D1 basically. At that point I was still not 100% sure so I wouldn't have mind a lynch on Stutters, or maybe Clarity, at least at one point in time. After I basically knew I wasn't the mayor any more, I didn't try to desperately "find a lynch candidate now!", and instead try to find who I'd want Five to lynch, or ultimately (if something unexpected happened, like someone else becoming mayor, or maybe even me) who I'd be okay with the elected guy lynching.
Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:45 Toadesstern wrote:
gonzaw looks / looked a townie so far and I really thought he'd die as a secondary target as you can see when you're reading the logs between Sandro and myself. And Sandro agreed so that's one of the reaons I'm talking about Gonzaw right now. Well I obviously didn't. Stop WIFOMing yourself like this Toad. After you started basically yelling at medics who to protect (me/austin/sandro/wbg), I had a feeling I wouldn't die at night, which is why I wasn't surprised about the night kills (again, except the sandro one, which did seem like scum took a risk at shooting). IF Gonzaw was mafia, I would expect him to be crafting his responses to suspicion, checking if anyone was active in QT to give him a rundown of exactly what to respond to in the thread. And he DOES make responses. But interwoven with his Oats response and his FT/Bugs/Toad response is this dialogue with Vivax. And that, gut read, is out of place for scum in this situation. Return to thread, see you've picked up votes, see you've got suspicion from a NUMBER of players, for both your play and balance reasons, and...while responding to that pressure you keep tossing comments offhand at Vivax? Just doesn't fit my mental picture of what scum is focused on there.
tl;didn'tclickspoiler - When Gonzaw returned to the thread, he was under pressure. Vivax, oats, debears, FT, Bugs, Toad had all either voted him, found him scummy, noted that he might be scum for balance reasons. In the middle of his responses to some of those posts, he reads some stuff Vivax wants him to read, comments on it, and has a back and forth with Vivax.
I do not think that fits scum's return to thread when ... what, 1/3 the game? is putting some kind of pressure on him. That's REMARKABLE cool at that point to be addressing the suspicions while playing the Vivax game. His actions in that little window of time look townie to me.
I get that he doesn't look awesome for some of his prplhz comments, but I had some of the same thoughts, as did sandro, so I can't really find that scummy. I found most of his other D1 stuff townie, as noted before.
The post about the NKs I just don't understand at all. It looks really weird, but not in a scummy way. Like, there's just no reason for him to say that or do anything about that. I can't grasp a scum motivation for saying that stuff, I don't understand why scum would do it offhand, I just...it makes no sense. As town or scum. So for now I'm disregarding that, and entirely unsure why Gonzaw could see those as the NK targets.
His post about maybe 1 bodyguard being scum 1 town is the scummiest thing I found from a reread. That's a weird assumption to make in a world full of 2-0 and 0-2 assumptions. He explained in a bit oddly, and kind of stumbled when questioned on it. For now, I'm just kind of flagging that set of posts, but the rest of his filter is town to me.
That's Part 1 of looking at Gonzaw's posts and people posting about Gonzaw, just what I get about Gonzaw himself.
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Part 2 - Some Gonzaw-related finds
(1) debears had a lot of interaction with Gonzaw at the start of today. Questions and posts on him. + Show Spoiler +On January 23 2013 10:41 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:36 gonzaw wrote:
Kind of saw this coming to be honest (except the sandro kill).
Unless some of them were a vig shot.
Oats, you seem to be active, why haven't you addressed my response to your "case"?
Five, could have scum killed you+Toad last night if both debears+Oats were scum and "subbed in"? Wait, hold on, you saw both djo and jiexian being nked by scum over you and Austin?????? Direct question, shortly after Gonzaw says he saw the NKs coming On January 23 2013 11:37 debears wrote:
5touch
How does town Gonzaw usually go after scumreads?
Does he try to convince others that the person is scum? Or does he try to convince the person that they are scum? Questioning other players about Gonzaw's meta (He repeats the question to Bugs after Bugs says he could go for a Gonzaw lynch) On January 23 2013 15:17 debears wrote:Ok. WBG I'll give you something to look at for Gonzaw. I htink the bottom stuff in red is the most pertaining to why I believe he is scum What is mafia trying to accomplish d1 with election 1) elect one of their own as mayor/sheriff 2) Trying to elect mayor who will get the first lynch wrong 3) Have someone on the correct mayor for town cred Gonzaw- - slight scum Up for election - didn't push it hard Didn't want to budge too fast on 5touch as mayor -----> didn't seem to care for trying to get mayor over 5No comment on prplhz----> Don't agree with prplhz lynch Heavy pressure on sandro early Wanted to lynch stutters and Oats and Clarity -spread out btw those 4. Big discrepancy in treatment btw prplhz and sandro treatment for being inactive d1Votes himself Really wanted to convince 5touch to lynch Oats over prplhz when realized he won't be mayor
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17590733
Thought stutters was scum and should be lynched, yet needs to explain himself to stutters so in depth? With a tone of treating Oats as town?
Look at post before "stutters should be lynched"
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17599229
Does it again. Then names Oats first in the scum team
Tries to convince Oats that Oats is scum. Not really trying to convince others and show scum motivation
Went and looked at filter, linked to a few posts, but based on his summary of Gonzaw's filter it does look like he read through things. (Note - debears follows the above post with a post noting that "stutters" in red should be replaced by "oats"). On January 24 2013 01:11 debears wrote:Vivax, in one night you do a complete 180 on two reads for no reason whatsoever + Show Spoiler +On January 22 2013 01:23 Vivax wrote:
I don't care if the elected roles are smurf, they have to be vets, and they have to be trustworthy.
Gonzaw isn't trustworthy for shoveling shit at me for being absent after my candidacy like JX did + trying to be overly politically correct to everyone.
austin isn't trustworthy for using artificial reasons to defend JX and picking stutters as lynch candidate.
Austin used the argument: "Slight paranoia is townie" cause he wrote something about a Toad jester. Austin clearly didn't give a shit about JXs alignment from the start. That's my interpretation. FT already pointed out that this was a mistake.
Seriously, stay the fuck away from gonzaw and austin. I'd rather have Chezinu mayor than these two. On January 21 2013 09:03 Vivax wrote:
## Vote Sandroba
If he's town, he won't be killed and be of great use.
If he's scum, he won't be able to hide it for long in that position.
Don't choose based on some mood. Even if sandro doesn't want it, a good town should want him in that position.
I don't like austin, I don't like gonzaw. Clarity didn't post his reads and he's usually not the guy who wants to take the lead. Voting Chezinu, are you fucking kidding me?Oatsmaster? Nah. On January 22 2013 01:55 Vivax wrote:
FT for mayor, that's out of discussion. Screw austin and gonzaw, they have to stay in put positions.
Just make me his second hand and this town is set for victory. On January 22 2013 06:46 Vivax wrote:
You all (debears, mkfuba, austin) must be really super-convinced that austin and JX are town if you flak me like that for a tentative scum read.
What exactly do you want me to do? Isn't it electing austin? To lynch whom? Stutters for playing like I know him from D1? No thanks.
Look, I find people suspicious who shovelled shit at me for my absence.
I find people super suspicious who instead of posting their reasoning about it (like gonzaw did=semi-admitting that it wasn't a good point and in the end null cause I was sleeping)
write that they had a reason to do so cause of some outer reason that has nothing to do with their thinking (the US tag), which then turns out to be wrong.
When called out for it, they don't answer.
Tell me, wouldn't you suspect scum behind it? You seem to be really convinced that he is town. On January 23 2013 20:33 Vivax wrote:
Use something in your argumentation to say that you think gonzaw and annul are scum besides this mayor thing please.
You say: "I think one and only one is scum among the mayor candidates, gonzaw and annul are probably scum cause everyone else I have a town read on." On January 23 2013 23:07 Vivax wrote:
[22.01.2013 19:17:49] Erik: yeah I agree
[22.01.2013 19:17:56] Erik: I'd like annul lynch the most
[22.01.2013 19:18:04] Erik: and a bunch oats has done recently looks townisch
[22.01.2013 19:18:07] Erik: *townish
[22.01.2013 19:18:18] Erik: I really don't see him pushing gonzaw out of all the people if he's mafia
Strange things to say considering your latest insecurity about who to lynch first between annul and gonzaw when asked.
Care to tell us why Oats is town for pushing gonzaw?
[22.01.2013 19:28:09] Erik: the way it's worded I can't jail before n2...
[22.01.2013 19:28:11] Erik: "You are able to PM me during the day with a player to be incarcerated that night."
[22.01.2013 19:28:27] Erik: if I have to pm him during the day I can't pm him before d2 for the n2 protections
What did BC respond to this?
Although he probably let Toad jail nonetheless. So you thought Gonzaw was scum all day 1 and suddenly change your viewpoint and think he's town for no reason? And you suddenly get on everyone's case about voting gonzaw? + Show Spoiler +On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato
Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else):
You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam.
You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences.
Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly.
@ debears
Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice.
I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat.
@ gonzaw
There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer.
I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me.
@ Toad
I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town.
I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot.
You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve.
I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages.
If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm.
But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play.
How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more.
I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information.
I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way.
Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts.
I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet.
You will absolutely not regret me being elected. On January 21 2013 22:20 Vivax wrote:
@ Yamato
Dude, if you are town (which I kinda doubt cause you promised self-improvement last time I saw you somewhere else):
You have 4 pages of filter of which a lot of posts are aggressive, low content spam.
You aren't achieving anything but calling candidates bad without pushing your own preferences.
Your posts aren't consolidated, and you disregard the opinions of 4 vets. In light of your overconfidence you are aware of you should actually use them properly.
@ debears
Me and Toad aren't the scum you're looking for. Yamato might be but it's still early. Djo is..an interesting choice.
I like your play so far. Don't underestimate me in this game though, I'm asking you to vote me into a seat.
@ gonzaw
There are questions directed at you in my filter that you still have to answer.
I don't care if you think I'm town, I'm not voting for you. And I know you won't be voting for me.
@ Toad
I really appreciate your contributions in the latest pages that appeared since I posted last. Knowing that you support me and FT, I can trust into you being working for town.
I would appreciate however if you didn't refer to me as stupid or idiot.
You never know who's sitting behind the keyboard, and you don't take into account how fast I can improve.
I think my strategies and reads have improved a lot lately. I don't have as much experience as others in this forum, don't draw conclusions about my intelligence or ability to learn then.
______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Regarding the discussion about my candidacy post: It was a good way to waste time in the last pages.
If you want to know, I started writing that post after I got my role pm.
But I can't prove it and it doesn't even matter. Look at my other play.
How I push my candidacy doesn't matter either. You know I want to be elected, and when I don't constantly spam that it doesn't mean I don't want it any more.
I pressured JX, Djo, gonzaw and yamato into giving out information in a way that breaks their usual posting style. Specific information.
I managed to get yamato very worked up to the point where he started replying in a subjectively quite scummy way.
Same goes for JX who replied to me with rather big delays, compared to the content he posted in that long time he needed to make the posts.
I am working pro-information, and I'm not sticking endlessly to the same target. I'm active, and I post transparently. Although I'm not giving you out all my reads, yet.
You will absolutely not regret me being elected. On January 21 2013 23:06 Vivax wrote:@ YamatoThen I assume, since me and Toad are probably not going to get lynched today, that you will vote for the candidate that lynches Djo? @ Oatsmaster
Would you support me/Toad/Sandro as elected role? If FT stops wanting to lynch you, will you support him? ______________________________________________________________________________________________________ After looking at his meta, I support a prplhz lynch as well. I especially looked at his town meta: Looney lynching - town→ More outspoken, more active, doesn't act as much as like he's not giving fuck as he does in this game. Rockband Mini - town→ Shares reads very early, opposes random lynching (here he asks for Chez lynch immediately). Doesn't act like he doesn't give a fuck (as here). Significantly becomes more active when his mislynch is gaining steam. He posts a lot with not much time difference between the posts. On January 22 2013 06:22 Vivax wrote:
Toad, I think it's of vital importance that austin doesn't get a seat. If there is no extra supporter to elect you Chezinu is my next favourite over austin. On January 22 2013 07:00 Vivax wrote:Chez you made me laugh a good portion. I'm voting Toad if we can manage to get him into that position though. Sorry bro  . On January 22 2013 10:01 Vivax wrote:
GET TOAD ELECTED FFS Notes that Vivax has changed stances on Gonzaw
Anyway, there are further posts after that concerning Gonzaw, questioning Gonzaw, etc. But basically, just searching for stuff related to Gonzaw turned up a LOT of debears stuff today. There's a chance that he was inactive most of D1, feels all scumguilty, and latches on to this subject to pursue and look active in D2. But it looks like legitimate activity, legitimate interest in a topic. He doesn't just say "Gonzaw scummy," he posts some reasoning and a case-ish thing. He doesn't just do that, he's also asking vets for how Gonzaw plays, and later asks Gonzaw for examples of specific play. It looks very much like a legitimate suspicion, and one that isn't being pushed for show.
I find debears townier based on that whole set of posts. It looks like he's legitimately trying to figure out Gonzaw, not just looking active as mafia and not ... building a case in the way that mafia would?
(2) THIS POST.
I have not done a full reread of Mocsta. But this post without any context looked BAD to me. In the middle of all the Gonzaw stuff, this post just stuck out. Context: Vivax had just posted - + Show Spoiler +On January 23 2013 22:45 Vivax wrote:
@ Mocsta
You asked me a question, why so disinterested now?
What's your take on Toad, gonzaw, yamato and annul?
You think I'm town?
On January 23 2013 23:12 Mocsta wrote:Hi Vivax. Not disinterested, just IRL stuff.. these are the thoughts in my head without reading filters.. take it as you want.. im more a gut feeling player anyways (which is prob why my reads are so fucked) Toad: Hes probably town for me; when he speaks freely/quickly I find him a bit erratic but its prob more to do with frustration. But every once in a while he says something that just makes me want to cast doubt. Regardless, if I was to judge his actions overall, off a whim, I think town motives. Gonzaw: I was about to start reading his filter, but since you asked, my impressions as of now are: made a good impression on me at first, and was one of the only vets responding to me.. as FT came about, he has really faded. AND IIRC he hasnt followed up on his promises (reads etc). My other issue with Gonzaw is association with prplhz... b4 prplhz had heat on him, Gonzaw was one of the ppl he was soft "buddying" to. ATM null, need to confirm if the (lack of) follow ups are correct. Yamato: hes got a pretty hot-head.. I *Assume* as scum would be hard for him to control the emotion.. so far he has swapped gears quite a lot; has tried to contribute here and there; but i dont think he ever followed up on u.. perhaps due to Toads insistence.. i would say leaning town. Annul: I haven't paid attention to him Day1, just the interplay between him and bugs today.. even with bugs persistence, i thought his ragequit was over the top; have to read the filter, but off that ragequit i would say leaning scum. Vivax: No fucking idea.. somethings you do just put so much public attention in my head only a VT would do that.. but then, some of the your actions just dont agree with me so I think scum.. but thats a gut feeling and prob just means i don't (personally) like your style.. one thing i learnt was, if a guy is really pissing you off, hes prob town... so based on that heuristic, i will say town  Grush: Even though you didnt ask, and i dont want to sound like im tunneling. I really dont like whats hes doing. Hes ignored my pressure (what ever) but coming in with the yamato mason stuff was just foreplay..im still waiting for the good stuff.. I cant even see a reason to have masoned yamato anyways, the whole thing is as odd as the NKs .. i mean.. djo was making some sense at the end.. but fuckn JX? Im going to read Annul/Gonzaw filter now, and hopefully dont fall asleep. I find it mildly odd that a small question from Vivax prompts such an enormous response, but whatever. I just...don't like the actual reads as they're presented - + Show Spoiler +Toad is probably town, because of generic townie heuristic "speaks freely/quickly." But sometimes he says things that "make [mocsta] want to case doubt. Actions overall, "off a whim," town motives. Toad is generic townie words, but sometimes there are specifics that make mocsta find him scummy, but "overall" toad is town. I don't get that. I like animals, but not if they have wings and make honey, but overall I like bees because they are animals. It's not that dumb, not that specific, but those statements seem similar to me, it (teehee) bugs me.
Gonzaw. Off the top of mocsta's head, Gonzaw made a good impression, but then faded, hasn't followed up on promises, THEN bolded bit on a connection with prplhz. "ATM null." Gonzaw made a good impression, but then faded and didn't follow up on promises, and also has a weird connection with a dude who flipped scum --> NULL. Again, I don't get where the ultimate conclusion comes from, given those other comments setting it up.
Yamato. Swapped gears a lot, tried to contribute, but didn't follow up on Vivax about something. "leaning town." Alright, perfectly fine with that conclusion.
Annul. Didn't pay attention to annul D1. Just looked at the annul/bugs stuff today. Ragequit over the top and scummy. No real problem with those comments, but they're super generic.
Then BONUS reads on Vivax and Grush. But the read on Vivax is ... a repeat of a lot of comments on Vivax, he's all over the place and doing a bunch of nonsense and pissing people off, so probably town. Grush is...LOOK AT THAT GRUSH READ. Don't like what he's doing, ignoring mocsta's pressure. Then random comment about the NKs...
The comments on people are are actually REALLY at issue -- Toad, Gonzaw, to a lesser extent Annul, just feel weak. Those are the ones that are especially empty or confusing. The yamato comments make sense, the vivax comments make sense, but those are the players that are less important to this game overall at that point. Gonzaw and Annul have been lynch options today. Toad is sheriff, mason, has been active today and generally putting a bunch of stuff into thread. But those are the players on whom the reads are the weakest. Then there's the "Oh yeah, I'm so helpful and including an extra read on Grush!" that tails off into commentary on the NKs as part of the grush-read...which I don't understand at all.
The post just sticks out as being oddly responsive to Vivax + has weird reads on the people that have been visible enough to give clear reads + has clear reads on the other folks. I need to read the rest of his stuff, because maybe it's just an odd post, but...it stuck out.
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On January 24 2013 10:52 DearestSnot wrote:
ok, here's the thing.
I hesitated earlier to use this argument, but I think it's strong. First suppose Oats is scum.
Because he's a BG, we know that if he's alive and FT or Toad die then Oats is outted. Thus at any point in the game we can safely lynch Oats if FT or Toad die. We only have a problem if we lynch a multitude of townies while FT and Toad survive and get into a multiple scum lylo situation. I don't see that as being very likely. If Oats is scum, mafia have to sacrifice one of their own in order to kill Toad or FT. As long as FT/Toad are alive we have a massive advantage. We have a jailer who can stop mafia KP in two different ways and a triple voter who is almost certainly town.
If Oats is town, and we lynch him, then tonight debears and FT or Toad will be dead, almost certainly. We basically simply shoot ourselves in the foot for no gain.
Even if Oats is mafia, we don't gain much by lynching him. He's a BG, if scum want to win the game in lylo they have to at some point out Oats. They can't feasibly win at lylo with FT alive because FT has 3 votes.
So, either Oats is mafia and we force mafia to out him in order to kill two of our best townies, or Oats is town and we leave FT and Toad protected until oats/debears get shot. The mafia team in either position is basically fucked as long as we can catch the remaining members.
So why focus on Oats? I don't see the rationale behind this right now. I don't know that I like this argument when I feel like we're "ahead." For some reason I'm just hesitant to get behind this 100%.
There's some merit to not rolling the dice and running the risk of mislynching Oats, but...if people feel best with an oats lynch, he should be the lynch. We lynched scum D1, haven't lost any power roles, had some odd NKs that left some strong players alive...town is ahead this game (barring some real nice scum play from FT or toad). I don't think it's worth taking the safest route possible so long as we're reasonably sure on oats.
Mafia chose roles. Mafia chose bodyguards IF they installed any bodyguards. To some extent, it would make sense to put the stronger-roled folk in the role of bodyguard (this is...muddy with the argument that he'd get made a bodyguard in order to buy him a turn/couple turns to live, they kind of run against each other). In either case though, mafia wanted to take scumoats and make him a bg to help him live. Mafia wants that. I don't want what mafia wants.
Like...it's not "focus on oats" as a rationale. It's "find scum" and oats just happens to look scummy. I'd rather lynch a scummy dude than try to get fancy when we're in a good spot.
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As an addendum, FT has shown good reads/judgment from what we have so far. So keeping him alive and having the extra votes would be nice.
But the extra votes are only good if they're on scum. I haven't seen someone play a game in which they ONLY voted scum, I don't think. So we can expect that, at some points, the extra mayoral votes won't harm scum, and might HELP them if FT is just wrong about a certain read.
If FT is fallible, the mayoral votes have to get discounted somewhat. They're good, but I don't feel like we have to adjust our overall play in order to preserve them 100%.
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On January 24 2013 12:15 Mocsta wrote:Austin@ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=393344¤tpage=97#1922I think your overcomplicating things, the posts read as I said. Vivax was pushing me for commentary (IIRC multiple times) so I gave him my impressions off-the-cuff. To you: Gonzaw, Annul and Toad may have been central to the thread and been your focus. But they weren’t to me. My focus has been mainly on Oats/Grush, and just keeping up with the thread in general. I actually thought what I said about Vivax was solid.. i.e. usually if a guy is repeatedly pissing you off he is town.. scum generally cant afford to agitate people that much, survival is easier if you are forgotten. Im not sure why you seem to disagree with this?As for your other comments, Toad Don’t see how you are misinterpreting this? I find his fast-posting style coupled with direction he giving to be indicative of town. Everyone once in a while he says something that just makes me facepalm. So I am leaning town instead of probably town.. thought this was clear? Gonzaw Again. Don’t see how you are misinterpreting? I like his flow when he writes. Gives me a good feeling without any analysis. I said NULL, because I need to do an analysis of the actions to confirm motivations. Gut feeling isn’t enough. Your welcome to read my filter and ask me more questions, but I really think your over-reading this specific post. I even stated at the start of it that it would be off the cuff? And I feel like your targeting me with this post because my priority filter reads do not align with yours. I don’t think that is indicative of alignment, its indicative of different experiences and thought processes. I'm targeting you with that post just because it stuck out. Maybe it shouldn't have, maybe I can't quite put my finger on it, but just for some reason I ended up pulling that post aside along with the other stuff I found.
I figured I'd vocalize what I was thinking at the time. This response reads entirely reasonable, and I noted that I didn't look you over completely, just saw that post. I'll check your filter tomorrow and ask anything, and you're more than welcome to poke around in mine .
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On January 24 2013 12:34 DearestSnot wrote:
no, Austin is not agreeing and that's the problem.
I am repeating it because I am receiving lukewarm feedback and I think this is really fucking important.
I think we're making a huge mistake if we lynch Oats and if you guys don't understand that, then there's a strong chance today will be a complete wash IMO.
If Oats is indeed scum and we lynch him then whatever, I will eat my words and I will accept that I am stupid dumb retarded, whatever. However I think there are both better lynches today and that most players aren't thinking enough about this lynch.
Also I didn't bother responding to recent questions about Oats because
#1. I've already stated multiple times why I think he is town. The points raised by other players on him are not new and not worth responding to, they'll incite the same feedback I got when I first raised my concerns.
#2 Quite frankly you can judge my probable response simply by how I've been talking about him this entire time and you don't need to ask me about him in the first place. I'd much rather talk about why we should lynch Chez or BKE, but gasp, I'm not getting feedback on Chez either!
That's actually the bigger tragedy IMO. I wanted talk about Chez and I wanted to put this out there to show why I think lynching Oats is such a mistake. I have found in the past that if you are not loud about these types of things (i.e. the Prom lynch in dessert or the prplhz lynch yesterday) then people will not follow or listen to you.
That's actually a lesson I learned as scum but never really truly applied as town because I'm not confident enough as town/I think it's borderline spammy to do, but I actually do think it is effective in forcing people to talk about things they would normally not talk about. I'll also get back to this tomorrow? I'm just "tomorrow guy" this game.
I can understand you harping on this, and you've got legitimate points. Maybe I'm overly focused on the "If oats is scum" side of things and you're focused on the "If oats is town" side of things?
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EPT
