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On January 03 2013 13:40 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 13:25 Spaghetticus wrote:
@Corazon or Zare
Do scum get access to their private thread immediately or do they have a period of non-communication. I have seen a scum chat before but this detail eludes me. Are scum able to communicate right now? Scum know who they are and get a QT immediately.
(1) Corazon, if I was you, I wouldn't have bothered answering that.
If you read the OP, its clear what the PM role details are, and does indeed state the Scum QT link.
(2) Is it not curious, at this early stage in the game. Spag ALREADY feels the need to distance himself from being town PERCEIVED as knowledgable in "scum behaviour".
Interesting indeed.
@Spag.
(1) Why would you not address this question to the mod?
(2) The question you seek is common knowledge, again, accessible from the OP. Why did you choose to elucidate this?
(3) Please use this opportunity to distance yourself from any other scum behaviours, you supposedly are not aware of.
<Insert Scum Tools>
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Questions to All Persons
Intent:
Discussion is quite slow at the moment. I have addressed questions to each participant to promote further conversation, whether directly to myself, or to others.
Please take the time and respond to these accordingly.
If you have qualms replying to my content, please notify myself and the rest of town, why you deem this unnecessary.
- cDgCorazon
+ Show Spoiler +(1) What do you make of Spaghetticus and his request for scum QT knowledge. If the motives are indeed town in nature, do you think it aligns with the reasoning he presented? (2) At this stage, TeMiL & OmniEulogy have roughly the same contribution (= zilch). Which candidate do you think we should target for more information? Please lead the discussion as you did today with the opening post 
- OmniEulogy
+ Show Spoiler +(1) You mentioned not lynching lurkers D1, instead town needs to actively scum hunt. Between myself and Spaghetticus; who do you think needs to be questioned first? Please lead the discussion.
- jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +(1) With your sole post, you succintly laid down your stance on lurkers. I congratulate this efficiency of words. I understand timezones/real life schedule impacts ability to post; regardless, if this was your sole post cum lynch deadline. Using your logic, why would town choose to vote another lurker compared to your "current" self?
(2) StriX is a man also of few words. Do you think StriX is a person worth questioning further? If so, please lead the discussion. If not, please nominate an alternative.
- zarepath
+ Show Spoiler +(1) I am keen to hear your thoughts in general during the USA shift.
(2) If stuck on items to discuss, please direct any concerns you have over my play to me to address.
- Spaghetticus
+ Show Spoiler +(1) What do you make of cDgCorazons play so far. What do you think of his reaction to my lynch vote? (2) Jampidampi addressed a reasonable question towards thou; would you care to indulge us with your riposte? On January 03 2013 16:25 jampidampi wrote:@Spaghetticus Show nested quote +On January 03 2013 11:42 Spaghetticus wrote:
DO NOT LURK. IDGAF WHO PLAYS SCUMMY I WILL BE VOTING THE LURKIEST PLAYER DAY ONE PERIOD. So you would rather lynch a lurker than a strong scumread D1? (3) On January 03 2013 11:42 Spaghetticus wrote:
This is my third game. First game I played standard town as cop. Second game I played as VT and was a little(lot!) too passive. I was lynched day one for not scumhunting, and in doing so saved their MVP scum player. I think I might dally with standard play once more to get my confidence back up :D
How do you characterise your standard play? So far, your post count to post quality ratio is skewed heavily towards post count [NOT a good sign] (4) On January 03 2013 19:51 Spaghetticus wrote:Show nested quote +Is it not curious, at this early stage in the game. Spag ALREADY feels the need to distance himself from being town PERCEIVED as knowledgable in "scum behaviour". [a] (1) ... (2) I did not want to look at the OP. I chose to elucidate it out of laziness, but also because of the small potential to generate discussion. There was no downside in my mind. (3) ... [b] I am relatively knowledgeable in scum behaviour. I am not knowledgeable about the specifics, though I was not trying to tell you this, I was merely asking for information. In no way am I claiming not to know about scum behaviour, as this would damage my ability to further my agenda whether I be town or scum. Your claim is wishful thinking or deliberate misinterpretation. Frankly Spag, I do not care for your response(s). (a2) Admiting laziness is not a solid town trait Spag. You know this. Its not indicative of scum play either. You know this as well. As they cancel each other out, let us now consider your potential to generate "small discussion" due to Scum QT. What did you have in mind? Please lead this discussion. (b) I never stated you were directly claiming to have limited scum gameplay knowledge. I called you out, because I expect a player of 3 games to know the answer to what you asked. Even as a player of 1 game, I knew that answer. There must be a motive, and that is what I want to find out. I will await your response to (a2) before deciding how to proceed with this.
- Sylencia
+ Show Spoiler +(1) You questioned Spaghetticus behaviour as pretty slack, or pretty scum. Which are you leaning towards? Do you think your thought process is being swayed by wanting to find mafia, or do you find peculiarities in Spags phrasing making you consider scum play at hand?
(2) You identified StriX as the last contributor. Who else do you think needs to step it up? Please let these people know as you did with StriX.
- StriX
+ Show Spoiler +(1) You mention keeping it simple, Lynch the liars + lurkers. Please expand on this. Would you chose liars/lurkers over top scum read?
(2) Noone is asking you to support the summary idea; thus, how do you propose to support town play?
(3) Your post contribution currently is on par with TeMiL and zarepath. If we are you Lynch all lurkers, which of (TeMiL, zarepath, StriX) shall town vote to lynch? Please lead the scum hunt with your chosen candidate.
- TeMiL
+ Show Spoiler +(1) We are yet to have any meaningful contribution from yourself. Please share your thoughts of how Day1 has proceeded (not seeking a summary/recap; moreso, your perceptions on who is suspicious so far)
(2) What do you think of OmniEulogy and his position to not lynch lurkers. (Lurkers typically have low contribution/quality; and thus, represent your current self)
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Post Count Summary
Intent:
To identify participants "flying under the radar" and not actively contributing.
The intent is not to provide a quality check on posts
That onus falls upon all of town individually.
Session 1
From: 03-Jan: 0930
To: 03-Jan: 2130
+ Show Spoiler +- cDgCorazon: 7
- Sylencia: 8
- OmniEulogy: 2
- Spaghetticus: 15
- Mocsta: 7 (8 if you include this post)
- zarepath: 2
- TeMil: 2
- jampidampi: 1
- StriX: 3
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On January 04 2013 08:17 zarepath wrote:
I've felt active, but perhaps this has been in my head -- my filter doesn't seem to suggest I've been inactive.
fluff post on phone.
Get used to thinking your active but not. So much rereading in this game.
Worse thing is when you spend 1hr on a post and before sending hit refresh and find out your 1hr post is not valid anymore..
I did it before with a 4hr case lol. Had to submit it out of principle!!
Either way. U got me thinking. When i get time i am going to post a couple pointers that were passed to me last game.
will post my thoughts on last 12hrs later when i have time.
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On January 03 2013 23:25 zarepath wrote:
In light of Spag's response (while I was writing my post), I'd like to elaborate on my read of Spag, but will await his forthcoming response to Mocsta's Q's. Meanwhile, I am checking a few other filters.
zarepath: I am keen to hear your thoughts on Spaghetticus now that he has voiced his rebuttle.
Please note, he has made 2 posts of defense.
(1) is in relation to my questions to OmniEulogy.
and the other
(2) is in relation to my questions to Spaghetticus.
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Jampidampi, Thank you for openly sharing your thoughts regarding these three players.
My thoughts:
+ Show Spoiler +I have noticed they all come to the same conclusion; and are hinging upon active play in the thread.
I think this is a fine start.
As far as I am concerned, reads such as "leaning towards" can be swung back to null very quickly.
Thus, I also appreciate you have not concluded anyone as "Confirmed" town. This is wise play as it is too early to confirm anyones motives (yes, I include myself in this if you were wondering).
@Jampidampi
You said you prefer a postcount to post quality ratio skewed in favour of post quality.
Why does your post regarding these three people aid towns scumhunt? What makes this a "quality" post?
The only other person you have identified in your contributions is StriX; the questions are vague at best however.
- If StriX remains your primary target, I would like to see you direct more questions his way to develop your profile on him.
- If StriX has fallen down the pecking order, I would like to know what has changed your mind.
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Post Count Summary
Intent:
To identify participants ""flying under the radar"" and not actively contributing.
The intent is not to provide a quality check on posts
That onus falls upon all of town individually.
Session 2
From: 03-Jan: 2130
To: 04-Jan: 0930
+ Show Spoiler +- cDgCorazon: 10
(3 in session)
- Sylencia: 14
(6 in session)
- OmniEulogy: 7
(5 in session)
- Spaghetticus: 20
(5 in session)
- Mocsta: 11
(4 in session)
- zarepath: 9
(7 in session)
- TeMil: 3
(1 in session)
- jampidampi: 4
(3 in session)
- StriX: 9
(6 in session)
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Mocsta: Tools to Improve Town Play / Scum Hunt
Disclaimer:
This is a compendium of mafia knowledge available freely.
I do not intend this to make me a pro-town read, as anyone can source quotes.
Intent:
To pass some of the tools I am aware of, to enable town players to scum hunt more effectively.
This is not a guide on how to play, or why we act certain ways. I would be fooling myself if I thought I had that experience.
For guides on mafia in general, see the original post, at the bottom is a plethora of newbie guides.
Lastly, if you want to discuss the applicability of this, PM me, as the conversation will certainly not be "Newbie Mafia 34" related.
1. Preface
+ Show Spoiler +[Cakepie] There is never a good reason for town to lurk. Only by discussing our reasoning and lines of thought can we hope to find and eradicate scum.
Town must never clam up for fear of making mistakes --
1. it is through discussion that we may hope to correct errors in reasoning; and
2. more importantly, in the event of a mislynch, it would leave trail for others to follow.
Hence, a silent townie is a far more useless than a bad townie.
2. Learnings from past game(s)
+ Show Spoiler +[Promethelax]Town: the main things you have to realize and learn from this game are
1) Never make connection cases before a flip
Connections cases pre-flip will always lead you astray.
2) People who say things about how something will affect their image is often scum.
3) A townie's greatest job is not to scum hunt, it is to be obviously town and remove oneself from the hunt of others.
See NMM XXX for a really great example of a scum team that was fucked not by strong scum hunting but by a group of townies who all made their mindset and alignment abundantly clear in the thread.
3. General Notes for Townies
+ Show Spoiler +(A) Townie Priorities + Show Spoiler + [A General Guide to Playing Mafia]
#1: Establish your innocence
#2: Read the thread
#3: Enable the scum hunt (Start discussion, contribute, pressure etc)
#4: Vote
(B) Confirmation Bias/Tunneling + Show Spoiler +[General] Mafia is a game where it is not uncommon to draw multiple conclusions from the same facts.
Make sure your “analysis” is clearly drawn from the facts rather than superficially pointing out irrelevant facts to prop up your theory.
Do not fall into confirmation bias by believing so strongly in your conclusions that you twist every possible thing your target says to support your case and ignore evidence that contradicts your conclusion
(C) There is no benefit to calling out early town reads + Show Spoiler +[Toadestern] See the thing is, ... it is INCREDIBLY hard to tell a townie who's posting a townread apart from a mafia who's posting a townread while both may look like something useful (it's not).
A townread is best kept to yourself, especially early on.
1. There's no reason to tell people what the key to making you think someone is town is.
2. There's no reason to tell mafia (if you're town) who you consider to be a likely townie is.
3. There's no reason to tell anybody why you think someone is town at all, unless said person is about to be lynched.
On top of that, it is incredibly easy for mafia to look like they're doing something by posting townreads. They know they're right on something, they don't have to make up bullshit, which they have to when they're doing scumreads unless they're bussing. They can get in the thread make 4 townreads about someone, mix in 2 mafiabuddies and tell people they're mafia as well and there's almost no way to distinguish that from a townie.
I mean there is, but it's just WAY hader than by looking at peoples mafiareads because again, mafia have to make up some bullshit when doing those, they got confirmation bias and already know they're wrong and all that is making it hard for mafias to talk about mafia-reads. Talking about townreads isn't for them, not at all.
4. General Mafioso Behaviours
+ Show Spoiler +(A) Mafia actions broken into the basics + Show Spoiler +
[General Guide to Playing Mafia]
Thus, mafia actions can generally be split into two rough categories:
A. Survival
1. Hiding/Blending in
2. Posting long but contentless posts
3. Lurking
4. Indecision
5. Not wanting to point fingers
6. Avoiding responsibility
7. Apathy about who is lynched
B. Pushing their agenda
1. Promoting confusion
2. Avoiding contributing new ideas
3. Making a big deal about nothing
4. Cherry Picking town mistakes while ignoring contributions
(B) Calculated "Inaction" from Mafia + Show Spoiler +[General]
You don't want to lynch the people you call scum. You want the town to lynch the people you call town.
Call out lurkers. They are easy to lynch, but don't try to lynch them until later in the game. Their wagon will provide good escape later if you need it.
Don't underestimate the power of subtle praise. "That's a great point" and "I didn't notice that" or even "I'm sheeping X, who is obv-town" helps building false confidence in townies. This will make the townie think you are town, and if they turn out to be wrong they get the blame and their confidence is shaken. It is generally good to leave the responsibility for the town's lynches on the town *Mocsta: Also known as "White-Knighting"*
(C) Active Lurking + Show Spoiler +[General]
Examples of active lurking include posts made only of taunts, excuses for not posting, incoherent gibberish that will lead people to suspect that you do not have the Internet savvy to play Mafia, general bland agreement with whatever is going on, and so forth.
For the less couth readers, this is frequently called "bullshitting" in MeatWorld.
This tactic is employed by scum who wish to appear more active than they actually are; either for the scum who has no comment on the current matter but does not want to seem like they are lurking, or for the lurker who wants to paint themselves as slightly better than some other lurker.
The effectiveness of this tactic is quite impressive if players are not specifically looking for it.
It is a common Town mistake to wish for the lynch of people they violently disagree with over the people who post whatever they can to stay on the periphery.
5. Scum Hunting tips
+ Show Spoiler +(A) Avoiding WIFOM + Show Spoiler +[General]
Do not get into a logical debate with your target. This always ends with “I have my views, you have yours”. Only reply to what is necessary. (B) Scum Read tips + Show Spoiler +[Aquanim]
Personally, I believe there are two very different kinds of tells: a player can do something which is not hard for scum to do or they can do something which is just scummy. Some examples:
Things which are not hard for scum to do:
- Talking about policy
- Defending other players
- Rambling about Mafia theory
- Jumping on scumslips
- Posting rationally (about things that aren't scumhunting)
- Jumping on a wagon
etc.
Things which are scummy:
- Not voting for their best scumread when lynch is imminent.
- Derailing fruitful discussion.
And, for comparison:
Things which are generally hard for scum to do:
- Scumhunt. This is NOT the same thing as "put down a vote with some justification".
- Convincingly converse with their scumbuddies.
As you can see, the first list has a lot more stuff in it. Everyone does some things that are in the first list, but when they're ONLY doing those that's a problem. The point is, I'd encourage everyone to look at their scumreads and think "are they scummy, or just doing things which are easy for scum to fake"?
Similarly, look at your townreads and think "are they scumhunting"? Putting down votes isn't necessarily scumhunting BTW. If they're not scumhunting, they're not particularly town, I don't care how much they've written or how smart/cautious/nice they are.
Oh, and talk to your coaches about scumreads instead of listening to the opinions of some newb.
(C) Improving quality of questions + Show Spoiler +[General]
When digging for information, don’t just ask the direct questions expecting the answer you want to hear.
The mafia are obviously not going to want to answer the way you’d like them to. Don’t ask questions hoping for a slip-up; ask questions intending to force the mafia to give up information. Before asking a question, you must have a realistic expectation of what the answer will be.
Many townies ask open-ended or direct questions that have zero chance of bringing out useful information. You must predict the answers to the questions before asking them in order to avoid pointless questions. Don’t repetitively ask questions unless you know you can accurately process the information you receive.
(D)Re-enforcing the scum read message + Show Spoiler +[Aquanim]Mafia start with more information than town. It is in the Mafia's best interest to keep town from finding information. Conversely, it is in the Town players' best interests for the Town to gain information. Therefore, Townie players: - Do not have any problems with giving information to the town
- Try to pressure/ask questions/etc. of other players which will reveal more information
By comparison, Scum players: - Do not want to reveal information to the town
- Do not want to ask questions of other players which may reveal information
Scum players may in fact be forced to reveal some information so as to appear townie. They may ask other players questions to appear townie. However, the end goal of a Scum player is NOT to look townie, it is to deny town the information they need to lynch correctly. As such, they will reveal as little information as possible, and their questions are unlikely to have a greater and unifying purpose. One case in particular I'll mention: everyone is obliged to justify their votes, scum or not. Unless the explanation is spectacularly good or bad, the presence of any reasoning behind a vote is null for me generally. So, I've looked at everybody's filters with the following two questions in mind: Is this person willingly revealing his own motivations, reasoning, etc.?Is this person trying to obtain information from other players?
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Questions to All Persons:Session 3
Intent:
Discussion is quite slow at the moment. I have addressed questions to each participant to promote further conversation, whether directly to myself, or to others.
Please take the time and respond to these accordingly.
If you have qualms replying to my content, please notify myself and the rest of town, why you deem this unnecessary.
- cDgCorazon
+ Show Spoiler +(1) I am satisfied with your response to (1) thus far. What do you make of zarepath/Sylencia? Are town motives apparent in this debate?
(2) Are you satisfied with the contribution of TeMiL now that 24hrs has expired? You say we should pressure, I ask that you lead this discussion.
- OmniEulogy
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Do you think your case on zarepath is exclusive of confirmation bias towards mafia?
Remember, OrangeRemi voted "no-lynch" day 1, and he was a bluer role. I urge you to have a re-think and let us know if you can explain zarepath motives from a town perspective. .
- jampidampi
+ Show Spoiler +(1) I would like if you could answer the new questions I addressed to you: @Jampidampi You said you prefer a postcount to post quality ratio skewed in favour of post quality. Why does your post regarding these three people aid towns scumhunt? What makes this a "quality" post? The only other person you have identified in your contributions is StriX; the questions are vague at best however. - If StriX remains your primary target, I would like to see you direct more questions his way to develop your profile on him.
- If StriX has fallen down the pecking order, I would like to know what has changed your mind.
(2) What is your take on the Sylencia/zarepath exchange of words (and vote(s))?
- zarepath
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Which you rather choose to lynch. An active participant with a scummy vibe; or a participant who is low count poster, but each post contains a vote for someone?
- Spaghetticus
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Your response to Session 2. Q2 Strong scum reads have already revealed a lot about themselves, and you can expect pressure on them later. Care to develop this further (I do understand you said real life commitments would plague you today)
- Sylencia
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Which you rather choose to lynch. An active participant with a scummy vibe; or a participant who is low count poster, but each post contains a vote for someone?
(2) StriX post style reminds me a bit of "Threesr". How do you think StriX should be approached to develop his story further? Please lead the discussion.
- StriX
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share
(2) You said zarepath is your lead suspect. With the information zarepath has presented since Session 2. What are your revised thoughts? If still a target, I suggest you demonstrate your conviction with a vote; otherwise, begin to identify alternative candidates.
- TeMiL
+ Show Spoiler +(1) So far your post count reads as useless fluff. Why should I not vote for you?
(2) "growing in my role" What does this mean? (I understand English is not your first language)
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On January 04 2013 13:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
Mocsta, I'm really curious. Why are you still voting for me?
If you have an actual reason to vote for me besides being paranoid of my XXXIII play, I would love to hear them.
Mate, your scum play impressed me Newbie 33, BUT... this game, you are starting to disapoint.
Read between the lines; Spag figured it out...
Fact is.. look at what I have written today, do you think that takes 5min? I haven't had an opportunity to update my case profiles for the Day 1 Lynch.
I aim to have this ready by midnight (8hrs from lynch).. it is Friday night after all.
+ Show Spoiler +
If you want a heads up, after the Session 2/3 proceedings, my vote will not be cast in your direction (or Spags)
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On January 04 2013 13:50 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also @Mocsta:
What do you think of Zarepath's attack on Syl, and Syl's defense?
Im not trying to be a prick here..however, I am trying to follow your advice.
*i.e. wait for feedback from others who have not been actively participating*
In essence, I DO have firm thoughts on what happened.
My revised questions to others reflects my opinion on the matter (in a subtle manner).
I will say one more thing though.. I am not liking people instantly concurring with others ideas.... at least try to be creative and add a fresh perspective.
Ironically, this applies to both zarepath and Sylencia.
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On January 04 2013 13:53 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 13:50 Mocsta wrote:
Fact is.. look at what I have written today, do you think that takes 5min? I haven't had an opportunity to update my case profiles for the Day 1 Lynch.
Well, I took your continuous vote (almost 24 hours) to mean that I had not satisfied your answers, and I just wanted to know why you kept your vote on me instead of un-voting.
Fair comment.
##Unvote: cDgCorazon
As mentioned prior, I will update my Day1 Vote candidate later tonight.
In the meantime, this is theory crafting.
But I wouldnt mind your feedback, as the post contribution is SO low..
im almost considering trying to push for below.
+ Show Spoiler +
There are 9 members.. I know I am town, that gives me a choice of 8 to lynch. (1/8 = 12.5%)
I think I have 2 or 3 good enough town reads.. that gives me a 1/5 chance (20%).. Do you think that 20% chance is good enough to warrant a random lynch a lurker vote?
We know from practice, that the outspoken guys, are typically town (who are not afraid to voice their opinion).. Theres too many 1 page filters, even for this stage of the game.
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Mocsta(1) Do you think your case on zarepath is exclusive of confirmation bias towards mafia?
Remember, OrangeRemi voted "no-lynch" day 1, and he was a bluer role. I urge you to have a re-think and let us know if you can explain zarepath motives from a town perspective. .
On January 04 2013 13:58 OmniEulogy wrote:
(1)from a town perspective I could see it being a misguided attempt to save a town lurker from getting lynched. However just because as you said Orange did it and was blue, it doesn't make it a good play. Furthermore we also had scum in NMM XXXIII try to support a no-lynch D1 in their opening posts.
(2)Do you have a read on anybody at the moment Mocsta?
(2) Read my reply to cDgCorazon 1 to 2 posts above...
(1) I don't understand what you are saying. zarepath accused sylencia... how is this a misguided attempt? who is the town lurker you are referring to?
Im not saying no-vote is a good play, im saying it doesnt categorise a player as scum OR town. So I suggest dropping it altogether.
Personally Im not against a no-vote, depending on the situation (and I dont think our situation warrants a no-vote).
Perhaps I have misinterpreted your comments, but I would appreciate if you could collect your thoughts in a a more cohesive manner.
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On January 04 2013 14:19 zarepath wrote:
(1) Mocsta: I would rather lynch an active participant with a scummy vibe than a low-count poster with only votes for posts.
(2) I still say that hypothetically mentioning a no-lynch over a blind LAL is the huge scum tell that you think it is, Omni. Mafia would rather have a lynch on a non-mafia lurker than a no-lynch, and mafia can control whether or not they lurk.
@zarepath
(1) The beauty of this game is, everyone has the potential to vote for who they want. It is in their control. . You are hoping others follow that vote however.
(Personally)I prefer Sylencia response to (1), the question indeed was vague; it was definitely not discrete, so many variables were missing [intentionally]
You have somehow linked all the pieces together however, to formulate a discrete conclusion.
If I look at a town perspective:
Perhaps you are prejudiced in opinion. Ruling your opinion a "matter of fact" opposed to any form of tell or read.
Perhaps you are a hot head, that posts ab-lib (possibly regretting the post later)... a trait surely I of all people can understand.
If I consider a mafia perspective:
Who cares who is voted, as long as its not mafia. That leads to a propensity to recklessly formulate opinions, and essentially make discrete conclusions.
So we go back to.. zarepath, what is you motivation? If (/When) I go through your filter;
Do you think I will find town or scum motivations?
Considering you are hawking the thread always, I am keen to hear your thoughts before I progress with this further
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On January 04 2013 14:57 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 14:36 zarepath wrote:
Corazon: Most of your filter was before-game banter, and at the time I asked you to participate more, most of what you had posted was you essentially saying that you had null reads on everyone.
Additionally, how is asking someone to participate more scummy? That is decidedly pro-town behavior, and I can understand being offended by it when you feel you've been actively contributing, but I simply wanted to hear more from you and threw you in the list. Well, you need to pay attention to the game to figure out why I had null reads. I was the first one to have a vote cast against them, so I needed to defend myself. If I were to start calling people out instead of defending myself, it would be a ridiculous scumtell (not to mention being rude. If someone takes the time to make a case against you, then you should have the courtesy to defend yourself, no matter how weak). The thing is, you need to check your facts. Technically, you told a lie there and said I had not contributed, when I clearly have contributed more than you. I just needed to contribute in a different way than you had to because of the early vote. I will not have an accusation made against me that is false.
Gentleman.. if I may step in.
This is starting to dilute the thread on a "he-said/she-sad" (not that any of you are she's )
I see no fault with zarepath asking for contributions from anyone (including myself).
I can also understand why cDgCorazon is acting this way. Especially with the duration of my vote.
I think, shake hands, and move on. There is a lot of decent content and relationships to read through on pages 14-15.
Lets not dilute those reads due to a "he-said/she-said".
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On January 04 2013 14:24 StriX wrote:
(1) Have your ideas expanded on "who is who"? Please share
(2) You said zarepath is your lead suspect. With the information zarepath has presented since Session 2. What are your revised thoughts? If still a target, I suggest you demonstrate your conviction with a vote; otherwise, begin to identify alternative candidates.
1. I'm starting to yes.
2. Feel like we're going a bit easy on TeMiL and I'd like to vote to lynch him right now. I delayed my vote due to suspecting lurking was due to timezone issues, however, I feel like we've given him long enough to contribute. He is also the only one to not respond to Mocsta's first set of questions.
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##Vote TeMil
@StriX
Town still needs more than you. Sylencia is a good friend to you, and gave a moving resume. Even I want to hire you.. but I and thus town, need more meaningful contribution.
Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated.
Why have you voted TeMiL? Please reference the following in your answering:
(A)
On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +(1) [Mocsta]You mention keeping it simple, Lynch the liars + lurkers. Please expand on this. Would you chose liars/lurkers over top scum read?
1. Doesn't seem logical to do that so no. As you can deal with a lying or lurking town with less punishment than .5?-1 death/night.
and
(B)
I also find it convenient my question to you..
(3)[Mocsta] Your post contribution currently is on par with TeMiL and zarepath. If we are you Lynch all lurkers, which of (TeMiL, zarepath, StriX) shall town vote to lynch? Please lead the scum hunt with your chosen candidate.
The only people you have referenced in your contributions are TeMiL and zarepath (names I fed you in questions).
Why would this be the case? Do you see any contradictions in tale?
I noted as well TeMiL didnt answer the questions.. you haven't answered all either...I still want to know..
On January 03 2013 22:47 StriX wrote:
(2) [Mocsta] thus, how do you propose to support town play?
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EBWOP.
StriX: Noted you shared you "whos-who"
The rest of the last post, still applies.
Please address.
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On January 04 2013 15:27 StriX wrote:Show nested quote +Why have you backed off zarepath? I want to know rationale, you should have this case-at-hand if you are analytically minded as Sylencia stated. Seems to defeat the purpose - Much easier to wait for a mistake then tell someone your watching them and expect one. Not to mention you could create one self fulfilling prophecy style. I guess we have different definitions of top scum reads as I really don't feel supporting no lynch is one. Perhaps in a high level (it'd probably be a meta play there actually) game but not in newbie mafia. I guess it's easier to spot things when people point them out to you. Honestly forgot you're the one who gave me the names and neglected to check out the others in more detail. Will now be aware of the leading nature of your questions towards myself.
StriX,I am having trouble digesting what you have written above.
I ask that you look back at the whole question I asked of you here.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389091¤tpage=16#302
Do you think you have addressed my questions? I don't...
In fact, I don't know why you have used specific phrasing in your answers, that I think are unrelated to the question-at-hand. e.g. self-fulfilling prophecy....
As I don't think you have answered my question; so I request that
you re-write what you wanted to say in a more cohesive manner.
Lastly, Im not calling you out on this, Im giving a tip in general, when you start a sentence with "honestly" the implication is that the entire conversation prior may not have contained your "honest" thoughts...Same goes with (To be honest.. blah blah blah)...Im not calling you out, because that also usually associated with body language, and obviously I cant see you.
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On January 04 2013 19:18 Sylencia wrote:Mocsta- If we have the courtesy of answering your questions straight, could you do us a favour and answer our questions straight as well? Otherwise we're just feeding you information while we get nothing back - or it's left up to us to interpret. Not what you want, especially when it can be twisted so easily. zarepath- You gave 5-6 points as to why I was potentially scummy - one of them included the fact that I 'didn't believe' in my own read, so I didn't vote Spag. Yet you do exactly the same thing and just give an FoS on me rather than voting me outright. Your tendency to act against what you say about others really grinds me, and it's a fairly clear tell when you've done it multiple times today. Because I would like you to owe me a favour... I am going to respond to your post now As mentioned Mocsta Post I am heading out soon, my position hasnt changed from that post. Comments to me.
+ Show Spoiler +(1) Im disapointed you think the information is one-way. The information goes to all readers of the thread, this is an interesting perspective you have? (2) A lot of people in the thread are saying "I agree with Mocsta".. I think this implies I need to take a step back, and let people think for themselves. Do you not agree? Obviously not.. because the quote you put in your response, actually takes out the part I just said about taking a step back..... "See here for post" Once again.. interesting perspective Sylencia.... P.S. Feel free to twist my words the way you want It takes two to tango, and I am more than willing to accept your offer to dance 
Comments to zarepath
+ Show Spoiler +
This is heading towards OMGUS very quickly.
(1) In general to both, I am not a fan of ##FoS... what does it actually achieve? (OoOoO I am shaking in my boots because of a FoS)
(2) I need to re-read your filter Sylencia.. but my opinion of zarepath is that he is not a threat. When I read his filter, I am currently interpretting his motives as town aligned. [Note.. I am not establishing him as a town read... this would go against what I was advising prior]
(3) I am not going bother commenting on this situation in general... I think there are higher priority targets for Day 1 lynch;
If you want to continue with zarepath as your vote, go ahead, its your decision.
I ask that you re-evaluate his filter, do you see town motivations? If so, I suggest you start thinking of an alternative person to scum hunt.
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On January 04 2013 22:10 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 14:54 Mocsta wrote:
So we go back to.. zarepath, what is you motivation? If (/When) I go through your filter;
Do you think I will find town or scum motivations?
Considering you are hawking the thread always, I am keen to hear your thoughts before I progress with this further I see you already read my filter (went to bed right after those posts and just now got up), but since you addressed me directly, I'll still respond -- I'm pretty sure you'll find town motivations. I am surprised that those who have voted for me (Sylencia, Omni) have done so without an analysis of my filter, especially considering we're early in the game and it should be decidedly easy to do so. I'm wary of tunnel-visioning either of them simply because they've voted for me and I don't want confirmation bias via OMGUS.
Well, regardless of whether I think you are town aligned or scum aligned; I am going to put pressure, or ask for more information.
I understand why Spaghetticus was defensive yesterday *at least I think I do*; but, in general that is not the way to respond.
You seem to understand that by saying you don't want to be OMGUS.
Let me say this..
As a townie, we can all make mistakes. [The unwritten rule is to learn from them]
I suggest, if you think Sylencia or OmniEulogy are lynch candidates; build a more defined case that shows you are rational.
Try to look at comments from scum/town perspectives, if there is a reason for a motivation to be town linked.. are you sure you want to risk a 50/50 and call SCUM?
To me. OMGUS is saying, you voted me.. i know im town so you must be scum.. heres my retort vote. If on the other hand you provide "clear" and "concise" evidence that shows you are being rational, OMGUS does not apply.
Lastly, if you do build a case against anyone.. please take Sylencia advice, and try to post at least 4 hrs (preferably 8hrs) before lynch deadline. People should have an opportunity to defend themselves.
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EPT
