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On January 31 2013 08:23 Stutters695 wrote: CH What happened to not giving me a free pass? You said that and haven't even mentioned me since? What's going on there?
Checking what I pulled. I'll see if I have anything I can drop to help the town's monsters. You posted some of your reads. You float around in the back of my mind. Is there really much point in yelling repeatedly at someone who's inactive to not be inactive? You knew you were on my watch list. I give you time. You deliver or you don't. In this case you kept up the same level of contribution. I wasn't expecting you to suddenly go hyperactive.
Early on you seemed suspicious of Xfire and were going to read the hydras. You then say:
On January 31 2013 09:14 Stutters695 wrote: Well crossfire is my number one read but he's been discussed to death. I'll have a post explaining my next best read when I get a few minutes of downtime at work. In the meantime I'll contribute to discussions however I can. I will say I feel a bit better about AS now that he's a bit more into it. Right now I don't think Nova is scum so if X turns out to be town I'd bet on a double hydra team. I wouldn't say Xfire has been discussed to death. I would like to hear your take on him.
Also, any read on AS or Suck?
/Acro
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Xfire, you can attack this turn. Who are you planning on attacking? Or at least looking into? We want reasons.
/Acro
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On January 31 2013 08:33 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 08:23 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:On January 31 2013 08:19 Crossfire99 wrote: This makes no sense seriously. I'm just...lask;dfjkl;sdjlakj.f...aaaaaarrrrrrgggggggggggggg...why are you attacking me for playing according to my reads...ajdsfljdfiopjdoajfp That's the thing...you don't have any reads. You just posted some non-alignment-indicative shit about Clockwork in the closing paragraph of a behemot of a post where you just defended yourself, and that's as much as you had for "reads". I would have thought you didn't have enough time to actually figure out if CH was scum or not. Do you still think you have well formed "reads"? /G I'm according to my reads at this time, which happen to be the smae as the big last post because I haven't had time to play since then. Seriously. And thinking about it some more right now. Clockwork's whole be careful about powering invidual people up and then asking everyone to do it to him reminds way too much of strong from WLIIA, except here clockwork had the balls to tell everyone to be careful of just what he was doing this game. Strong in WLIIA at least didn't try to say bewware of the very thing he was doing.
You really just plain didn't read our posts, did you? We never said to be careful of someone powering up. We said: we will not cooperate in powering up someone we do not have a town read on and will be HAPPY to help if we DO have a town read. Now guess who our strongest town read is on? Hint: it is someone whose role PM we read. We are thus going to encourage everybody to cooperate with that plan!
Now this whole CH is scum thing from you sounds like you're stuck in an OMGUS loop that you can't get out of. You have given no reasons (except really shitty ones) and are using it as an excuse to do no actual scumhunting. Stop tunneling, or find some actual reasons for doing so.
/Acro
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On January 31 2013 22:49 Acrofales wrote: Xfire and Nova: still waiting for answers.
Suck: do something useful instead of repeating what has already been said. Shit.
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On January 31 2013 23:16 Acrofales wrote: Crossfire, I really need you to tell us who you want to attack. If it's us, we won't block, because all our creatures will be attacking this turn, but you'd better have a damned good reason for nailing us with 3 damage.
If you are keeping your creatures as blockers, you'd better have a damned good reason. Oh ffs. Switched to send a PM, checked the thread and fucking did it again. I fail so badly at hydraing.
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Also, we are about 70% sure about who we're attacking, but waiting for some critical pieces of information. I also haven't properly filtered Rock and AS yet. They were low priority due to earlier meta-based reads on H1 and iGrok's single big analysis, but continued lack of involvement is casting doubt on both of these reads.
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On January 31 2013 23:19 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Gon has given my read, I'm finding him on the townie side of things, he has that comfortable feeling I get from a town hopeless. Have you ever seen a scum say 'I dunno, no one seems scummy to me' or 'I am lurky' those just feel like things a town hopeless.
p H1 knows he has a lurker meta and has used this as a defense before (Acme Mini Mafia) when scum. Pretty bad of you to take that as a town tell from him. Other than that, I still have to filter him properly, so no comment.
/Acro
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"I am lurky" feels like a town hopeless
Response:
H1 knows he has a lurker meta and has used this as a defense before (Acme Mini Mafia) when scum. I can, and do, read.
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On January 31 2013 23:28 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 23:27 Clockwork Hydra wrote:"I am lurky" feels like a town hopeless Response: H1 knows he has a lurker meta and has used this as a defense before (Acme Mini Mafia) when scum. I can, and do, read. Then you fail at understanding the point he was putting across. Prome was saying Hopeless was comfortable, casual, loose with it, rather than uptight and using it defensively. I wouldn't fail, if Prom would actually say what he means, rather than making us guess about whether he means the content or the form of stuff he quotes. Anyway, I've decided that before filtering Rock and AS, I should take a better look at you. I went with an early gut read and left you in the town corner, but have not ever taken a stab at actually looking at your filter.
Flooding the thread will not stop me from filtering you. I've played with Xatalos!
/Acro
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On January 31 2013 23:33 Nova_Terra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 19:59 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 30 2013 07:06 Nova_Terra wrote: If there isnt muh additional posting and help made by crossfire and stutters by tomorrow, i will be significantly more worried about those two. Well. Worried? Or not worried? Why? I currently think that crossfire is more suspicious. His plying an antitown card 1 minute before deadline without saying anything, and then his getting mad seemed very fake agnflagsbfnsisnfnatbf. Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 20:05 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 31 2013 19:49 Nova_Terra wrote:On January 31 2013 19:23 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On January 31 2013 15:47 Nova_Terra wrote: Well i was trying to stay relatively null on CH but im having a hard time finding a scum motivation on any part of his last analysis, and its quite similar to the thoughts i was having but was unable to put them down well. BinonFire makes good points about rockhydra, who would be my 2nd priority for a hydra scum. Just woke up and this post sprang out of the page to me: why were you trying to stay null on me? It sounds like a remarkably strange thing to do. This is a question for Nova and if anybody else answers I will shoot you in the face. Nova, I need you to answer. /Acro Very good question. I've had a variety of vibes from you and not much else, and so i thought it would be better to refrain from making much out of you until i could find some better logic. You seem to know why it's a good question. Why? Cause around 10 seconds after i made the post i wondered if anyone was gonna ask me about that.
You are avoiding actually answering the question. But it's okay. I guess you weren't merely using that shit to buddy up to me. Suck already ran interference for you anyway (which is not particularly indicative of alignment, just irritating).
I don't agree with you that Xfire's MTG play is indicative of alignment at all. I think his timing might be funky, but his DECK cannot be indicative of alignment. His subsequent USE of that creature will be telling, but I don't see him playing it (without knowing exactly what else he has in his hand and how his deck is supposed to work) as saying anything.
Just as our discarding of Larry's Disk says NOTHING about our alignment and anybody trying to read shit into it is wrong (not that I am worried about you thinking I'm town because of it, it's just fucking stupid to use THAT of all things to think so).
Your idea of what is indicative of alignment has so far been decidedly odd. I have seen you play before and I was under the impression you usually reason things out better than you have so far. I am not sure about you and I'll be honest, we probably won't attack you, because Dandel had the impression earlier that you're town (although that might have changed since yesterday) However, you are rapidly scoring points in my scumometer.
/Acro
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On January 31 2013 23:44 Aperture Science wrote: Before everyone gets too worked up about Deathrite Shaman, yes it can do 2 damage but it can also do other things.
If he does 2 damage he's scum. If he doesn't, well, I'll have to run analysis tonight. I would value your opinion before the attack phase ends. So far you have said shit about Bin, which has not convinced me he's scum. Other than that, I know very little about what you think about anybody. Please do Xfire and/or Suck.
/Acro
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K. Pretty much done with Poster's filter for now. Didn't find anything new. There is a gigantic amount of fluff, but hidden between the trash posts there seems to be a fair amount of scumhunting, though not nearly as much as he claims to be doing. Particularly this was funny, because he had done 0 scumhunting himself at this point. However, he seems to be actively contributing and trying to figure things out for town. Confirmed that he's not on the kill list for today.
Also some outstanding questions: 1. You may indeed play instants during the attack phase (see OP). 2. Given the choice between a 2/0 and a 0/6 creature, I would always play the 0/6, because the 2/0 goes straight to the graveyard 
/Acro
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Suck, when Stutters has made a greater contribution to the thread than you, things are starting to look pretty bad.
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On January 29 2013 09:04 RockHydra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 29 2013 08:53 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote: Also, if someone even dares to play a 0/X creature with no abilities, then I'll seriously have to consider "policy lynching" you
Why 0/X creatures suck: If you are scum, then it means that you have 1 blockable and basically indestructible monster. Thus, town have to spend more effort/time to kill you, thus you survive longer
If you are town, then it means that maybe a random scum won't attack you directly that easy....maybe?
If you are town, try to establish your innocence (preferably following the commandments above). If you do, then no townie should attack you AT ALL the whole game. If scum want to attack you, they have to FoS you first. If they do it badly the rest of town will fuck him up, so don't worry, don't be afraid and put a 0/X beast just to "defend" yourself.
If you do however, we also can't know if you are mafia or not, since 0/X creatures are good for mafia as well. So you basically confuse the hell out of town, and maybe even convince town to kill you
If you have a 0/X beast to play, please tell us first, and most importantly tell us why you are playing it, so we don't try to "policy kill" you. I'll heavily consider killing anybody that doesn't follow this.
I also don't see many downsides to stating to the thread what you are playing before you do (if it's something unblockable, etc), so consider doing that.
For instance: I'm playing BlooodStained Mire, a land card right now
Has no effect at all for now (I'm not activating it until I consult with Prom) My reasons for having 0/X creatures are completely separate from the merits of playing Mafia. They were selected based on the supposed synergy they provide for my deck. In addition, my deck was selected before my alignment so your entire argument is completely invalidated. I have 0/X creatures and I will play them because they further my goals, and ultimately the town's goals since I need my deck to function in order to do anything. If you feel the need to policy an 0/X creature, you're doing it wrong. ~Hopeless I'm headed out to dinner.
Here you say they further your goals, which is presumably to play ninjas. However, the first thing you actually DO with them is:
On January 31 2013 08:28 RockHydra wrote: <snip> I have no reason to attack this turn, so I'm not gonna. I wouldn't mind if cross pointed his goblin guide at me since I can block it with minimal/no repercussions (aside from a tapped goblin).
~Hopeless AKA keep them as a blocker.
Why the inconsistency in play? I'm starting to agree with SnB here. If a creature can attack, it should be.
/Acro
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On February 01 2013 02:56 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 02:52 Clockwork Hydra wrote: Suck, when Stutters has made a greater contribution to the thread than you, things are starting to look pretty bad. wait what? which filter have I been looking at, stutters hasn't done shit to me Stutters, imho, is one of the towniest players in the game. That is, imho a lot more valuable than SnB's half-arsed read of Nova based on almost exclusively bad tells.
/Acro
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On February 01 2013 03:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Somehow I missed this terrible post, most of which I've deleted. Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 11:04 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I was writing a play-by-play case here on Suck but the crux of the question is this:
Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games:
LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1. PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon. Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1.
I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game.
The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day.
Verdict: scum
Acro is being extraordinarily selective. Here's the final votecount from LVIII (town): Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 07:14 Kurumi wrote:FINAL Day 1 Votecount BloodyC0bbler (13) marvellosity Clarity_nl Hopeless1der HiroPro froggynoddy [UoN]Sentinel iamperfection thrawn2112 VisceraEyes Djodref Promethelax Keirathi Lazermonkey Marvellosity (12)Palmar supersoft kushm4sta Toadesstern debears Mr. Cheesecake tube Meapak_Ziphh Chezinu yamato77 Foolishness grush57 hopeless1der (1) wherebugsgo Palmar (1) BloodyC0bbler tube(1) Vivax wherebugsgo (1) Jackal58 Haven't yet voted (1) Eywa- Day ends in 15 minutes. Here's marvellosity claiming in Paranoia because he got in trouble day 1: Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote: I am Detective
now fuck off all of you. Selective meta picking is extremely scummy, Acro.
Errr, I didn't even go over much of Marv's previous games, I just relied on HIM SAYING:
On January 30 2013 23:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 21:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.
You best be providing some good evidence for this one. Here's a fun-counter one, which I can actually prove: you know the last time marv was suspected as mafia on Day 1? Never. -marvelbabe I'm afraid I took that to mean "being suspected when playing mafia". I did not read LVIII except for the modkill drama bit or Paranoia (at all, was simultaneous with CT and I was rather occupied).
Anyway, so you're honestly going with the defense: Marv is only suspected of being scum on D1 when he's not scum.
Worst defense since "Marv would never let me play that way" and you are honestly using it to flip that back and OMGUS me? Fucking lol.
/Acro
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On February 01 2013 03:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 03:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On February 01 2013 03:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Somehow I missed this terrible post, most of which I've deleted. On January 31 2013 11:04 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I was writing a play-by-play case here on Suck but the crux of the question is this:
Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games:
LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1. PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon. Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1.
I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game.
The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day.
Verdict: scum
Acro is being extraordinarily selective. Here's the final votecount from LVIII (town): On January 05 2013 07:14 Kurumi wrote:FINAL Day 1 Votecount BloodyC0bbler (13) marvellosity Clarity_nl Hopeless1der HiroPro froggynoddy [UoN]Sentinel iamperfection thrawn2112 VisceraEyes Djodref Promethelax Keirathi Lazermonkey Marvellosity (12)Palmar supersoft kushm4sta Toadesstern debears Mr. Cheesecake tube Meapak_Ziphh Chezinu yamato77 Foolishness grush57 hopeless1der (1) wherebugsgo Palmar (1) BloodyC0bbler tube(1) Vivax wherebugsgo (1) Jackal58 Haven't yet voted (1) Eywa- Day ends in 15 minutes. Here's marvellosity claiming in Paranoia because he got in trouble day 1: On December 02 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote: I am Detective
now fuck off all of you. Selective meta picking is extremely scummy, Acro. Errr, I didn't even go over much of Marv's previous games, I just relied on HIM SAYING: On January 30 2013 23:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 21:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.
You best be providing some good evidence for this one. Here's a fun-counter one, which I can actually prove: you know the last time marv was suspected as mafia on Day 1? Never. -marvelbabe I'm afraid I took that to mean "being suspected when playing mafia". I did not read LVIII except for the modkill drama bit or Paranoia (at all, was simultaneous with CT and I was rather occupied). Anyway, so you're honestly going with the defense: Marv is only suspected of being scum on D1 when he's not scum. Worst defense since "Marv would never let me play that way" and you are honestly using it to flip that back and OMGUS me? Fucking lol./Acro Why is it the worst defence, again? Over the 8 games (i think) I've played as mafia, I've never been suspected day 1, because I'm very good at fabricating evidence and reads. As just provided, I'm suspected on Day 1 because I don't bullshit reads so it can look like I've contributed less as town. That's just fact. No that's a fucking excuse to do nothing and say "olololol I do something as scum so I have to be town!!!!" which is some of the worst reasoning I've seen in my life.
~dandel
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On February 01 2013 03:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 03:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On February 01 2013 03:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Somehow I missed this terrible post, most of which I've deleted. On January 31 2013 11:04 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I was writing a play-by-play case here on Suck but the crux of the question is this:
Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games:
LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1. PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon. Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1.
I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game.
The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day.
Verdict: scum
Acro is being extraordinarily selective. Here's the final votecount from LVIII (town): On January 05 2013 07:14 Kurumi wrote:FINAL Day 1 Votecount BloodyC0bbler (13) marvellosity Clarity_nl Hopeless1der HiroPro froggynoddy [UoN]Sentinel iamperfection thrawn2112 VisceraEyes Djodref Promethelax Keirathi Lazermonkey Marvellosity (12)Palmar supersoft kushm4sta Toadesstern debears Mr. Cheesecake tube Meapak_Ziphh Chezinu yamato77 Foolishness grush57 hopeless1der (1) wherebugsgo Palmar (1) BloodyC0bbler tube(1) Vivax wherebugsgo (1) Jackal58 Haven't yet voted (1) Eywa- Day ends in 15 minutes. Here's marvellosity claiming in Paranoia because he got in trouble day 1: On December 02 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote: I am Detective
now fuck off all of you. Selective meta picking is extremely scummy, Acro. Errr, I didn't even go over much of Marv's previous games, I just relied on HIM SAYING: On January 30 2013 23:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 21:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.
You best be providing some good evidence for this one. Here's a fun-counter one, which I can actually prove: you know the last time marv was suspected as mafia on Day 1? Never. -marvelbabe I'm afraid I took that to mean "being suspected when playing mafia". I did not read LVIII except for the modkill drama bit or Paranoia (at all, was simultaneous with CT and I was rather occupied). Anyway, so you're honestly going with the defense: Marv is only suspected of being scum on D1 when he's not scum. Worst defense since "Marv would never let me play that way" and you are honestly using it to flip that back and OMGUS me? Fucking lol./Acro Why is it the worst defence, again? Over the 8 games (i think) I've played as mafia, I've never been suspected day 1, because I'm very good at fabricating evidence and reads. As just provided, I'm suspected on Day 1 because I don't bullshit reads so it can look like I've contributed less as town. That's just fact.
Your supporting evidence is simply that you haven't been caught. It's like a burglar being caught after committing 20 crimes without being caught and saying "well, because I wasn't caught the other 20 times, I cannot have been the burglar this time, because I wouldn't get caught".
It ignores all other evidence that points to you being scum and simply assumes the conclusion. You commit an inductive fallacy.
/Acro
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On February 01 2013 03:55 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 03:51 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On February 01 2013 03:36 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On February 01 2013 03:18 Clockwork Hydra wrote:On February 01 2013 03:06 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:Somehow I missed this terrible post, most of which I've deleted. On January 31 2013 11:04 Clockwork Hydra wrote: I was writing a play-by-play case here on Suck but the crux of the question is this:
Marv is pretty damned proud of his D1 status of never being suspected, and that is because he generally looks pretty damned townie on D1. Recent games:
LVI, got elected and lynched scum on D1. PU, had some arguments, but was never in doubt. Took a back seat in most plays, because 3P wincon. Hero Mini, early support on bussing his scumbuddy D1.
I don't think Marv has ever died on D1 and that is because Marv always puts in an effort on D1. This game, he clearly didn't (at least not at the start). The only other game I can find where Marv really didn't put in an effort on D1 is MTG Mini Mafia I. He was scum in that game.
The play-by-play I was doing just showed the lack of effort he put in until about 2/3 through the day.
Verdict: scum
Acro is being extraordinarily selective. Here's the final votecount from LVIII (town): On January 05 2013 07:14 Kurumi wrote:FINAL Day 1 Votecount BloodyC0bbler (13) marvellosity Clarity_nl Hopeless1der HiroPro froggynoddy [UoN]Sentinel iamperfection thrawn2112 VisceraEyes Djodref Promethelax Keirathi Lazermonkey Marvellosity (12)Palmar supersoft kushm4sta Toadesstern debears Mr. Cheesecake tube Meapak_Ziphh Chezinu yamato77 Foolishness grush57 hopeless1der (1) wherebugsgo Palmar (1) BloodyC0bbler tube(1) Vivax wherebugsgo (1) Jackal58 Haven't yet voted (1) Eywa- Day ends in 15 minutes. Here's marvellosity claiming in Paranoia because he got in trouble day 1: On December 02 2012 06:37 marvellosity wrote: I am Detective
now fuck off all of you. Selective meta picking is extremely scummy, Acro. Errr, I didn't even go over much of Marv's previous games, I just relied on HIM SAYING: On January 30 2013 23:24 SuckMyTopdeck wrote:On January 30 2013 21:14 Clockwork Hydra wrote:
Additionally, Marv evades questions with a reflection, while doing none of his usual town play. You know what happened last time Marv lurked through day 1? He flipped scum.
You best be providing some good evidence for this one. Here's a fun-counter one, which I can actually prove: you know the last time marv was suspected as mafia on Day 1? Never. -marvelbabe I'm afraid I took that to mean "being suspected when playing mafia". I did not read LVIII except for the modkill drama bit or Paranoia (at all, was simultaneous with CT and I was rather occupied). Anyway, so you're honestly going with the defense: Marv is only suspected of being scum on D1 when he's not scum. Worst defense since "Marv would never let me play that way" and you are honestly using it to flip that back and OMGUS me? Fucking lol./Acro Why is it the worst defence, again? Over the 8 games (i think) I've played as mafia, I've never been suspected day 1, because I'm very good at fabricating evidence and reads. As just provided, I'm suspected on Day 1 because I don't bullshit reads so it can look like I've contributed less as town. That's just fact. Your supporting evidence is simply that you haven't been caught. It's like a burglar being caught after committing 20 crimes without being caught and saying "well, because I wasn't caught the other 20 times, I cannot have been the burglar this time, because I wouldn't get caught". It ignores all other evidence that points to you being scum and simply assumes the conclusion. You commit an inductive fallacy. /Acro No, it's like saying there's 2 houses I like to break into as a burglar. For the first house, I keep having to run away from the police because I bungle it a bit. For the second house, I never have to run from the police because I plan the robbery so perfectly. The fact that I'm running away from the police in this situation isn't perfect evidence that I tried to burgle the first house, but it would indicate it. Boooooyaaaaaaa
No, because the vast majority of the times you enter house 1 you don't have to run from the police either and you have conveniently discarded all of that from your sample.
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Anyway, you're distracting me. How long til the attack deadline?
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