EPTOn January 30 2013 12:08 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Anyways people, don't argue back and forth with iGrok, that'll only piss him off even more regardless of alignment, and we won't get shit done.
Let him "have a fresh start" and see what he does with it.
Again, same thing I advocated previously: If by the end of D1 he hasn't done shit, just kill him.
He can't hide behind "rage" posts or setup speculation in that case, which only means he's scum if he fails to do so.
I mean, we can still talk about him, just let us not pointlessly tunnel him and clog the thread with it.
Apparently there are some players you just can't pressure and expect to do something in favor of town; again, like we experienced last game.
/G
Anyways people, don't argue back and forth with iGrok, that'll only piss him off even more regardless of alignment, and we won't get shit done.
Let him "have a fresh start" and see what he does with it.
Again, same thing I advocated previously: If by the end of D1 he hasn't done shit, just kill him.
He can't hide behind "rage" posts or setup speculation in that case, which only means he's scum if he fails to do so.
I mean, we can still talk about him, just let us not pointlessly tunnel him and clog the thread with it.
Apparently there are some players you just can't pressure and expect to do something in favor of town; again, like we experienced last game.
/G
Aperture Science
Filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=389088&user=296336
I mentioned a little thought experiment to Prome earlier (as soon as this Attack Phase started):
Let's ignore Aperture for now. He has 0 pressure on him, but isn't doing anything productive.
Cool, let's see what happens; but most of all, let's predict what could happen.
Now, imagine he's town. He's doing shit, and under no pressure. Hmm, this makes it the perfect opportunity for scum to jump on him and cast suspicion on him wouldn't it? Easiest way to appear you are scumhunting and contributing, and cast doubt on a town player that's under no pressure whatsoever.
*time goes on*
Well, it seems nobody did this, other than CH pressuring him a little bit.
Scum always pay attention to every townie in the game, so surely they paid attention to Aperture. By not going against him, then it can only mean they didn't want to go against him for some reason. Townies were just misled and forgot about him, but scum do not.
But what if he's scum? Surely those "misled" townies would still be ignoring him, but unless his scumbuddy wants to bus him, he would ignore him as well too wouldn't him?
Now we are getting somewhere...
Like I said, I am a man of my word. I said that we should let Aperture be and see what he does when he's:
- Under no pressure: Thus he won't have to spend most of his time defending himself and answering questions and the like. For instance what happened to Greymist last MTG game
- Not raging: Thus he can't hide his activity behind rage posts, or say he's "frustrated", etc. He can't hide his play behind his rage.
Well, and thus I followed this advice I made myself, and apparently everybody else did.
Now, what did Aperture do with all these things we did for him?: absolutely nothing
Let's dwell a little bit deeper in his play though:
1. Scumhunting
On January 29 2013 10:12 Aperture Science wrote:
I'd be scumhunting.
I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?)
I'd be scumhunting.
I don't want to draw 1/3 of my deck T1. Anyone running Mill is going to have a field day with the rest of us. (I'm not claiming MILLER - haha, get it?)
I already said this thing made me suspicious of him.
But it makes me even more suspicious of him now.
Back then, he said "I'd be scumhunting" to the question "What will you be doing with this turn?".
However, instead of actually trying to scumhunt, he just said he'd be scumhunting "in the future". This was scummy as fuck, but I let it pass a little bit, since he's iGrok so maybe that's how he plays.
However.....he certainly lied. He promised he'd be scumhunting this turn, but he didn't. Like...at all.
"But he made an analysis on Bin! He was scumhunting!"
Well, let's see his "analysis" shall we?
On January 30 2013 23:34 Aperture Science wrote:
Sigh. At least some of you get why I thought casting MA for 15 was a bad idea.
GreY sent me a message:
I agree with this, and I think most of you do. What I'm worried about is that group hug boosters could destabilize the balance, which is why I favor a small MA or Voyage rather than a two-turn setup into "everyone has 15 lands" and has a 25 card deck remaining. Please stop tapping for join forces. Adding more to it won't help.
Here's my analysis of Bin.
tl;dr:
Moderate Suspicion of Scumminess.
Factors:
1). Flip Flopping: Bin changes his mind extremely often. Even within the same post. This means his mind is already made up as to his action, and he's just saying what he can to appear most townie. Class B Tell
2). Schizophrenic: Its really weird how Oats is this extremely hostile personality who apparently knows very little about magic, while MG is cool, calm, and collected. It lets him get away with more things than usual. If I were scum, this would be the perfect cover. Class D Tell
3). Derailing: Bin starts or prolongs many arguments. This ties in with the previous two factors in that he prolongs them well after he has stated that the arguments have been discussed enough. Class C Tell
4). Deck Lies: Death Grasp isn't a win condition unless you can get 20 lands out. Its a survival condition. It also works VERY well with the mafia creature. Which means either he's scum or is lying about his deck, which means he's scum. Class B Tell
Yes, this is actually how I hunt. Yes, I do actually have a system of Tell Classes.
Class A: Slips. Incontrovertible evidence of scumminess.
Class B: Contradictions. Possibility of confused town.
Class C: Behaviors. Possible town explanation, depending on player's methods.
Class D: Win-mores. Tells which mean nothing unless other tells independently lead to a Scum conclusion.
Class E: Nulls. Tells that mean nothing because they can have town or scum agendas.
Suspicion Range:
[Minor---Lesser---Moderate---Reasonable---Greater---Certain]
P.S. I suspect marv is scum just to ruin his streak.
Sigh. At least some of you get why I thought casting MA for 15 was a bad idea.
GreY sent me a message:
I agree with this, and I think most of you do. What I'm worried about is that group hug boosters could destabilize the balance, which is why I favor a small MA or Voyage rather than a two-turn setup into "everyone has 15 lands" and has a 25 card deck remaining. Please stop tapping for join forces. Adding more to it won't help.
Here's my analysis of Bin.
tl;dr:
Moderate Suspicion of Scumminess.
Factors:
1). Flip Flopping: Bin changes his mind extremely often. Even within the same post. This means his mind is already made up as to his action, and he's just saying what he can to appear most townie. Class B Tell
2). Schizophrenic: Its really weird how Oats is this extremely hostile personality who apparently knows very little about magic, while MG is cool, calm, and collected. It lets him get away with more things than usual. If I were scum, this would be the perfect cover. Class D Tell
3). Derailing: Bin starts or prolongs many arguments. This ties in with the previous two factors in that he prolongs them well after he has stated that the arguments have been discussed enough. Class C Tell
4). Deck Lies: Death Grasp isn't a win condition unless you can get 20 lands out. Its a survival condition. It also works VERY well with the mafia creature. Which means either he's scum or is lying about his deck, which means he's scum. Class B Tell
Yes, this is actually how I hunt. Yes, I do actually have a system of Tell Classes.
Class A: Slips. Incontrovertible evidence of scumminess.
Class B: Contradictions. Possibility of confused town.
Class C: Behaviors. Possible town explanation, depending on player's methods.
Class D: Win-mores. Tells which mean nothing unless other tells independently lead to a Scum conclusion.
Class E: Nulls. Tells that mean nothing because they can have town or scum agendas.
Suspicion Range:
[Minor---Lesser---Moderate---Reasonable---Greater---Certain]
P.S. I suspect marv is scum just to ruin his streak.
Wow, seems like a "great" thoughtful analysis does it?
Except it isn't.
First, his "spreadsheet analysis" is obviously bogus. He went through every single post of Bin, and just put a little tag on it. "Fluff" or "Wrong".
That is not analysis, and is fucking easy to do as scum, it's just mechanical.
Next his "tells".
He did seem to try a little bit to analyze Bin, but what his points were not that alignment indicative (Oats being "aggressive", the "deck lies", etc).
Not even that, but apparently iGrok has this "system" for a while. It's fucking easy for him to use it as scum, I mean, it's a blueprint for scumhunting. As scum he doesn't have to do anything, just let this scumhunting mechanism scumhunt instead of him.
He can just check every single post of someone and let his "Class Tell" system rate it, and then post the conclusions.
It needs absolutely no effort from him, and no actual scumhunting, he already has the "scumhunting" done for him by the system.
More "scumhunting"
Okay, let's ignore that "analysis" then. What did he do later? Check his filter.
He keeps arguing with Bin about the "contradictions" in Oat's play about Mind Aglow apparently. I won't discuss this, it may be valid it may be not. I certainly don't think it's that alignment-indicative
However, check the 3rd page of his filter......he stops
He just suddenly stops giving a fuck about Bin.
On January 31 2013 04:14 Aperture Science wrote:
This is a really good point that I hadn't thought of.
This is a really good point that I hadn't thought of.
This makes it think that maybe he's changing his mind about Bin? Well he never says, and even contradicts this:
On January 31 2013 12:05 iGrok wrote:
Just check your scum QT. Whats the other name listed there?
Just check your scum QT. Whats the other name listed there?
I thought this was a joke, but I don't know anymore.
Aperture's only read this whole game was Bin. He heavily attacked him and pressured him with that giant "analysis" of his.
Yet, then he completely forgets about him, never pressures him at all, not even when it's obvious nobody else thinks he's scum.
Then he posts that stuff above like he still thinks Bin is scum? Wtf?
He has no mention of Bin at all, which means he doesn't give a shit about Bin.
He doesn't give a shit about scumhunting, even though he promised he'd be doing early on D1 when asked about it
2. Talk about Hydras
Check out these posts:
On January 31 2013 05:06 Aperture Science wrote:
Basically there's two likely possible scumteams: hydra+maverick and hydra+hydra. in the previous sentence, which word appeared more, hydra or maverick? that what kind of player we should focus on to find scum.
Basically there's two likely possible scumteams: hydra+maverick and hydra+hydra. in the previous sentence, which word appeared more, hydra or maverick? that what kind of player we should focus on to find scum.
On January 31 2013 12:16 Aperture Science wrote:
My powers are not to be trifled with! Now, which Hydra is Scumbuddy part of?
My powers are not to be trifled with! Now, which Hydra is Scumbuddy part of?
On January 31 2013 23:07 Aperture Science wrote:
The reason you look at hydras to see who is scum is that when we find out which hydra is scum, finding the remaining scum is much easier because you can look at the associations.
Re: the non-hydras, Xfire and Nova both feel weird, but there's no way they are both scum. I'm not even sure that either is. I'll do analysis comparing them when I get off of work.
The reason you look at hydras to see who is scum is that when we find out which hydra is scum, finding the remaining scum is much easier because you can look at the associations.
Re: the non-hydras, Xfire and Nova both feel weird, but there's no way they are both scum. I'm not even sure that either is. I'll do analysis comparing them when I get off of work.
He apparently believes in the "there is scum between hydras".
Not only that, he believes we should focus on the hydras.
That's perfect!.......so?
Where is HIS focus on hydras?
There is none, not even on Bin who he suspected earlier in the Main Phase!
He talks and talks about focusing on hydras but doesn't do shit about it. Again, he's not following up with what he says people should do!
Just like when he said he'd be "scumhunting" !
3. Reaction to Threats
Let me bring this post again:
On January 30 2013 12:08 (DontFear)ThePoster wrote:
Anyways people, don't argue back and forth with iGrok, that'll only piss him off even more regardless of alignment, and we won't get shit done.
Let him "have a fresh start" and see what he does with it.
Again, same thing I advocated previously: If by the end of D1 he hasn't done shit, just kill him.
He can't hide behind "rage" posts or setup speculation in that case, which only means he's scum if he fails to do so.
I mean, we can still talk about him, just let us not pointlessly tunnel him and clog the thread with it.
Apparently there are some players you just can't pressure and expect to do something in favor of town; again, like we experienced last game.
/G
Anyways people, don't argue back and forth with iGrok, that'll only piss him off even more regardless of alignment, and we won't get shit done.
Let him "have a fresh start" and see what he does with it.
Again, same thing I advocated previously: If by the end of D1 he hasn't done shit, just kill him.
He can't hide behind "rage" posts or setup speculation in that case, which only means he's scum if he fails to do so.
I mean, we can still talk about him, just let us not pointlessly tunnel him and clog the thread with it.
Apparently there are some players you just can't pressure and expect to do something in favor of town; again, like we experienced last game.
/G
I thought I was pretty clear with this.
I assume Aperture saw it as well.
Now, how would a townie react to posts like this that basically state they will kill you unless you do something?
You do something of course.
Like I said before, if that guy keeps pressuring you and attacking you, maybe you won't have the time/effort/will to do something, but like I said that's not what happened: I and others gave Aperture completely freedom to do whatever he wanted
Look at his filter again, and tell me if this is how a townie would play after being pressured and "heavily" FoSed in early game. Specially a "vet" like iGrok.
4. Greymist
Short entry here: There is no Greymist.
Like at all. Reminds me of marv in the previous game.
Yeah it may be true he's in Italy working or something, but I thought he could have posted something on his phone or talked with iGrok or something
His complete absence strikes me bad. This isn't a big point anyways, you can ignore it
5. Fluff and Blending in
Look at his posts from this Attack Phase. They are all trying to blend in, even if it doesn't make sense for him to post stuff like that
On January 31 2013 23:44 Aperture Science wrote:
Before everyone gets too worked up about Deathrite Shaman, yes it can do 2 damage but it can also do other things.
If he does 2 damage he's scum. If he doesn't, well, I'll have to run analysis tonight.
Before everyone gets too worked up about Deathrite Shaman, yes it can do 2 damage but it can also do other things.
If he does 2 damage he's scum. If he doesn't, well, I'll have to run analysis tonight.
On January 31 2013 23:45 Aperture Science wrote:
Its weird that everyone is jumping on Xfire for playing deathrite when other people have more pressing threats. He doesn't have the mana to use it today. So we make him tap out tomorrow before combat phase or we kill him.
Its weird that everyone is jumping on Xfire for playing deathrite when other people have more pressing threats. He doesn't have the mana to use it today. So we make him tap out tomorrow before combat phase or we kill him.
Like....this feels so out of place it's not funny
Aperture doesn't do shit at all, yet thinks it's important to address the issue about Crossfire's card?
It's so out of place.
And again, these posts seem like he's blending in, posting about what's "cool" at the moment to appear he's active
He also "promises" some analysis on Xfire and Nova but says he'll do it after work.
I guess Suck should instantly think he's scum for not following up with it wouldn't he?
The point is that you don't "promise" to do something like this in a remote future when it's already almost 72 hours into the game.
6. Lack of suspicion
This comes with what I said earlier.
If he's town, why would everybody just let him be? If he's town he's playing so "bad", that a scum is bounded to attack him at some point
I mean, remember the last MTG game. Greymist "played bad", and scum Toad jumped on him very fucking easily and tunneled him until he died
I would have thought at least 1 scum would try to do something here
But no, EVERYBODY IGNORES HIM, EVEN SCUM.
This is very weird if he's town, but not if he's scum.
7. Fake "Rage"
Ah, the "rage" post:
On January 30 2013 09:21 Aperture Science wrote:
You will get that info in a bit. We have an opinion, but posting it is counterproductive at the moment.
Yes, I can be obnoxious, arrogant, and hostile. These can be useful. I can also be fun, but you've got to be fun with me. To me, mafia is a game - if you aren't having fun while playing it you're doing it wrong. I'd rather have fun and lose than win by ruining the game for everyone. But if you ruin it for me, I'll do the same right back.
I don't play like "Oh herp-dee-derp, let me tell everyone exactly what I feel like at all times." That just seems frivolous to me, and is the leading cause of why people like Gonzaw end up with 30-page filters. If I'm not sure about someone, I'm going to wait. Look at the best town players, they do the exact same thing. Foolishness, GGQ, Radfield - these guys don't talk 24/7. Besides, scumhunting takes content, and in the first 24hrs there is no content. Now that there is a bit (though not a ton), I can look back and actually form opinions. Those of you who've formed opinions already, congratulations! You're good at pulling things out of your ass.
I'm willing to give this game a fresh start, and try to have fun.
Final bit of MTG advice:
Minds Aglow doesn't just affect whoever puts in mana. It makes EVERYONE draw those cards.
Same with Collective Voyage.
Whoever said "keep the players balanced" had the right idea. 20 Zombies isn't bad when everyone has them. They're bad when one player has them. This isn't a mayor game, lets not turn it into one.
You will get that info in a bit. We have an opinion, but posting it is counterproductive at the moment.
Yes, I can be obnoxious, arrogant, and hostile. These can be useful. I can also be fun, but you've got to be fun with me. To me, mafia is a game - if you aren't having fun while playing it you're doing it wrong. I'd rather have fun and lose than win by ruining the game for everyone. But if you ruin it for me, I'll do the same right back.
I don't play like "Oh herp-dee-derp, let me tell everyone exactly what I feel like at all times." That just seems frivolous to me, and is the leading cause of why people like Gonzaw end up with 30-page filters. If I'm not sure about someone, I'm going to wait. Look at the best town players, they do the exact same thing. Foolishness, GGQ, Radfield - these guys don't talk 24/7. Besides, scumhunting takes content, and in the first 24hrs there is no content. Now that there is a bit (though not a ton), I can look back and actually form opinions. Those of you who've formed opinions already, congratulations! You're good at pulling things out of your ass.
I'm willing to give this game a fresh start, and try to have fun.
Final bit of MTG advice:
Minds Aglow doesn't just affect whoever puts in mana. It makes EVERYONE draw those cards.
Same with Collective Voyage.
Whoever said "keep the players balanced" had the right idea. 20 Zombies isn't bad when everyone has them. They're bad when one player has them. This isn't a mayor game, lets not turn it into one.
Okay, this came out of nowhere. We discussed with Prome about this, and he said it could be genuine or not, but it's still weird as fuck. Many people ignored it but I'm putting attention on it again.
On January 30 2013 09:56 Aperture Science wrote:
Look at me! I'm spamming like a jackass because I think thats how mafia games are won!
All the hydras are scum!
Everyone with a lowercase j in their name is town!
ThePoster is scum because he asks questions and gives orders, and also uses literally 76 metric fuck-tons of "quotation marks"!
Look at me! I'm spamming like a jackass because I think thats how mafia games are won!
All the hydras are scum!
Everyone with a lowercase j in their name is town!
ThePoster is scum because he asks questions and gives orders, and also uses literally 76 metric fuck-tons of "quotation marks"!
On January 30 2013 09:57 Aperture Science wrote:
Can't you read?
I thought your head was less far up your ass than everyone else's. Oh well.
Can't you read?
I thought your head was less far up your ass than everyone else's. Oh well.
On January 30 2013 09:58 Aperture Science wrote:
I have to have more filter than gonzaw. Apparently this makes you enjoy the game more?
I have to have more filter than gonzaw. Apparently this makes you enjoy the game more?
On January 30 2013 10:16 Aperture Science wrote:
I'll bet you stand the most to gain from it. And as he said in nicer terms, you've got a whole lot of bullshit in your filter.
I'll bet you stand the most to gain from it. And as he said in nicer terms, you've got a whole lot of bullshit in your filter.
What's with this aggression? Where the fuck does it come from? Out of nowhere
Why is he saying shit like "I thought your head was less far up your ass than everybody elses" to people completely unrelated to his "rage"?
Remember, his rage apparently was against me+Prome for having a 6 page filter at the time and posting every thought of ours, thus making it harder for him to read the thread
So why the fuck does he get angry at Bin? It doesn't make sense
Like I said it doesn't make sense to be this angry out of nowhere for a stupid reason that's not even a big deal in this game (me+Prome hadn't spammed the thread that much, we didn't feel anybody would get angry at us spamming yet).
One thing that catches my attention though: this rage never happens again
Me+Prome have a 10 page filter, and it's "N1" (by normal game standards).
Apparently Aperture's "rage" about "everybody ruining his fun" came only once, and then it doesn't matter at all?
I mean, me+Prome are still "posting a lot" and "posting every thought that comes to us", so why isn't he getting more angry at us?
Well, remember the time he made the "rage" post: People were pressuring him.
CH thought he was scum because he was so opposed to Minds Aglow for "bad" reasons or something
Others thought he was scum for other reasons
So now he "vents" his frustration.....on me and Prome about how we post a lot
Now that nobody is pressuring hi, apparently he's all fine and dandy with me and Prome posting all of our thoughts every single time.
This inconsistency in him is scummy as fuck, specially how he's "angry" about a completely unrelated issue when he's pressured, yet when he's not pressured that issue apparently doesn't matter at all for him
Conclusion:
Kill him as soon as possible
Now I'm attacking him for 1 damage
I hope when Crossfire gets here he attacks him with 3 damage (well...if he's town at least).
Tomorrow I want him dead.
I have 3 Chain Lightnings right now, which I can use tomorrow when I cast a Mountain.
That means 9 damage to Aperture, leaving him at 10-7 HP (depending on whether Cross attacks him). I guess other players can easily kill him tomorrow if he has that low HP.
P.S: He could put another Mountain and get 2 red mana to redirect my Chain Lightning, but that makes him open for attacks since he won't be able to cast anything
Like I said, I am a man of my word.
I said I'd leave him alone and let him do his thing. If by the end of D1 (or N1 now, hell I even gave him more time to do shit than I said I would) he didn't do anything, we would kill him
That's precisely what I will strive to do.
Hope you guys join me, or at the very least discuss this shit
##Attack Aperture Science with Grim Lavamancer
/gonzaw
