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On December 28 2012 09:45 Sylencia wrote:
Having a framer in play suggests there's a Cop in play, right?
No, XXXI had a framer and no cop.
Also:
On December 28 2012 07:10 Aquanim wrote:
If scumteam is Kick/Orange/FC, say, they don't really have a choice - one of them's going down today.
Don't know why scum would bus if this wasn't the case.
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It's possible that there was a big scheme to have Kick cast suspicion on shz, and then have Kick bussed to clear shz, but it's very unlikely. The simpler explanation is that shz is town and Orange and FC are scum, seizing the oppurtunity to get shz lynched. Also consider: given that both Orange and FC both tried to get shz lynched, shz scum would mean that both Orange and FC are town (unlikely). Orange/FC fits much better.
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Chrom/Orange fits? Scumslip?
Also, I wrote a case on FC d1 and pressured him all day.
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@cakepie
It's an irrelevant question? I think that both are scum. Both of their vote posts are bad, both of them were scummy anyway. If I absolutely had to choose one, it would probably be FC because I think that he's scummier and his post is more contrived.
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What I said there was a correct conclusion drawn from an incorrect premise. I assumed that Orange and FC weren't in a team together because Orange had voted FC before and was voting him now. Because of the voteswitch and the scumteam's willingness to bus this game, that's obviously a bad assumption.
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@FatChunk
On December 28 2012 08:58 FatChunk wrote:
okay well I think that either of the two people are scum: sHz and kickstart, and to be honest the last post of shz on the 27th was really scummy to me. I hope we're right.
##unvote
##Vote: sHz
On December 27 2012 14:30 shz wrote:
Ome thing to note though, which seems very odd to me.
If we misslynch today, we pretty much fucked, so it should be in scums interest to direct us towards a misslynch, to nearly lock that game down. But there seems to be no oposition towards lynching Kick. Could this mean that mafia is fine with that lynch? Which would mean we are wrong.
Really? This was shz's last post on the 27th by forum time.
By what reasoning did you somehow decide that this post, made a while ago, somehow suddenly made shz scummier that Kickstart?
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I don't think that it would be a stupid move for scumteam to switch. If it had worked, with one more person switching, town would be in a very bad position. It would be 4-3, and the sheeping townie would be an easy mislynch to win the game. They went for it, it didn't work.
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My advice is to sheep Aqua.
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On December 29 2012 09:12 cDgCorazon wrote:GG Aqua. Show nested quote +On December 29 2012 08:44 Chromatically wrote:
I don't think that it would be a stupid move for scumteam to switch. If it had worked, with one more person switching, town would be in a very bad position. It would be 4-3, and the sheeping townie would be an easy mislynch to win the game. They went for it, it didn't work. So you're basically saying that Orange and FC are both scum, and that you switching was not part of this scum move? ...
I'm addressing cakepie's point that the whole scumteam switching is too good to be true. I'm demonstrating why it would have been a good idea for the whole scumteam to switch.
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Might as well get this started:
##Vote: Orangeremi
No scumread on shz all game, had a scumread on Kick all game, but switches to shz anyway with no reasoning. Also useless all game, etc, etc.
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@cakepie
You keep quoting that like it's something super scummy, it's not. I agreed with what Aqua was saying, and I didn't have time to post something. So, half joking, I said to sheep Aqua if I died. You also act like people voting Orange is my fault..?
I've been one of the biggest contributors to this game since D1. If you think that I'm scum, make a case. Otherwise, get your vote somewhere useful.
I will admit that I thought we were in a better position than we actually are. shz's post, especially the point about Orange voting FC when the votes were close, make me doubt that it's both of them. FC needs to explain himself more than Orange does, and I agree that a big vote lead for Orange won't make that happen:
##Unvote
##Vote: FatChunk
I particularly don't like how he downgraded his read on Kick after the lynch. He first said that Kick was his top scumread, but then said that "he was a lurker more than anything" after.
I also still don't like the agressive last line of this old post,
+ Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote:Show nested quote +Why is Corazon different from everyone else? You say that he's relatively new, but he's just as new as OrangeRemi or threesr (basically, modkills don't count). Yet you don't have any problem lynching those people, just you don't want to lynch Corazon. You also say that you want to lynch lurkers, but don't include Corazon in that list. Why? Okay here we go. OrgangeRemi has posted very little in this game so far, so it is difficult for me to answer your first question with him as an example. Corazon is different from O.R. because he actually posted something in a defensive manner and I am explaining what my read is on this, as per your request. Regarding theesr I have expressed my opinion on him. He is different from corazon because his motives, if he were mafia, can more easily be predicted because of the nature of his posting and his quantity of posts as well. He may share similar qualities as Corazon, but he has quite simply posted more than Corazon and supported his arguments. I simply await more posts from corazon to make a more accurate read. Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon.
I would also like to point out that FC completely ignores Kickstart until D3, at which point he makes him his top read. Could be a coincidence, or could just be good timing to say that because they were planning a bus.
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Orange has at least explained himself, albeit unconvincingly. FatChunk hasn't explained himself yet. Several people have pointed out problems with his "thought process", he has yet to answer them. For example:
+ Show Spoiler +On December 28 2012 13:30 Chromatically wrote:@FatChunk Show nested quote +On December 28 2012 08:58 FatChunk wrote:
okay well I think that either of the two people are scum: sHz and kickstart, and to be honest the last post of shz on the 27th was really scummy to me. I hope we're right.
##unvote
##Vote: sHz Show nested quote +On December 27 2012 14:30 shz wrote:
Ome thing to note though, which seems very odd to me.
If we misslynch today, we pretty much fucked, so it should be in scums interest to direct us towards a misslynch, to nearly lock that game down. But there seems to be no oposition towards lynching Kick. Could this mean that mafia is fine with that lynch? Which would mean we are wrong. Really? This was shz's last post on the 27th by forum time. By what reasoning did you somehow decide that this post, made a while ago, somehow suddenly made shz scummier that Kickstart? On December 29 2012 23:58 Chromatically wrote:... I will admit that I thought we were in a better position than we actually are. shz's post, especially the point about Orange voting FC when the votes were close, make me doubt that it's both of them. FC needs to explain himself more than Orange does, and I agree that a big vote lead for Orange won't make that happen: ##Unvote##Vote: FatChunkI particularly don't like how he downgraded his read on Kick after the lynch. He first said that Kick was his top scumread, but then said that "he was a lurker more than anything" after. I also still don't like the agressive last line of this old post, + Show Spoiler +On December 20 2012 05:49 FatChunk wrote:Show nested quote +Why is Corazon different from everyone else? You say that he's relatively new, but he's just as new as OrangeRemi or threesr (basically, modkills don't count). Yet you don't have any problem lynching those people, just you don't want to lynch Corazon. You also say that you want to lynch lurkers, but don't include Corazon in that list. Why? Okay here we go. OrgangeRemi has posted very little in this game so far, so it is difficult for me to answer your first question with him as an example. Corazon is different from O.R. because he actually posted something in a defensive manner and I am explaining what my read is on this, as per your request. Regarding theesr I have expressed my opinion on him. He is different from corazon because his motives, if he were mafia, can more easily be predicted because of the nature of his posting and his quantity of posts as well. He may share similar qualities as Corazon, but he has quite simply posted more than Corazon and supported his arguments. I simply await more posts from corazon to make a more accurate read. Is this sufficient for you? I am sooo sorry that I didnt put corazon in that list - I either omitted him because I presented my thought on him already, or maybe just to bring light to the fact that we need to discuss other lurkers AS WELL AS Corazon. I would also like to point out that FC completely ignores Kickstart until D3, at which point he makes him his top read. Could be a coincidence, or could just be good timing to say that because they were planning a bus.
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And you think that FC has defended himself?
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On December 24 2012 01:04 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2012 21:16 Orangeremi wrote:
I suppose I should clarify. I've had very few scum reads this game. I've had plenty of suspicions. When referring to 'scum reads' I'm just mentioning the players I'm suspicious of. I honestly couldn't say that I wasn't convinced any players were scum D1.
My explanation for voting FC over Spag is I was convinced Spag was town after reading his long final post before being lynched. At that point I felt it was a toss-up between FC and Kickstart in my mind and I just voted to avoid voting no-lynch (since people seemed to not want me to). I would take all the players I've mentioned with a grain of salt, especially since I haven't made a case for any of them.
However, none of my suspicions from then compare with how convinced I am with my D2 vote. After viewing Chrom's evidence towards Omni and then reviewing it myself, there's no way he's town. This satisfies me as well. I feel like it explains the things you were accused of. Good job defending yourself, just keep up the scum hunting. ##unvote
Is there a particular reason that you ignored this post, Corazon?
After you presented your first case, you said that it had satisfied your accusations.
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On December 30 2012 04:32 FatChunk wrote:
Okay first off I'd like to say that I was roleblocked last night.
I went back and read the comments from ~page 63 on and will address comments made regarding my play:
@Chrom regarding shz's post on 27th
the post i referred to regarding shz was a different one. Dec 27 13:42. Scummy to me because he is lynching for information, and and declares kick the scummiest and decided that he will probably vote for him. no confidence, no assertion. No confidence in lynch at this point in the game - what does this mean? can we never trust shz's sheeping vote for his own opinion? Note that this is pre-lynch.
@cake, all
My vote for shz was prompted by chromatically. Quite simply, I thought that sHz would be a better lynch and the decision was not based solely on shz's post I am referring to. I wanted to stand by my read at that point in time. 5-3 to 4-4 would result in kick being lynched anyway, and it was clear that only one of the two were scum. My read changed based on posts from chrom, kick, and so my vote changed. i.e. to sHz. I didn't think about the repercussions of voting so late, and to be honest, I probably would have still made the same decision. I sheeped to Chrom on the premise that scum reads come before lurker reads.
On December 24 2012 03:03 FatChunk wrote:
Well so far I'm going to have to vote for Omni tonight because lynching omni gives us the most amount of information. Also I pin him as someone trying to cover up a slip, especially because he puts the FoS on me when it was not only me who shares suspicion on him and chrom. I guess I am an easy lynch-target? Then he proceeds to vote orangeremi because he is the only alternative, and then posts 1 sentence on his justification for his vote.
...
##Vote:OmniEulogy
?
Also, what posts of mine changed your mind from Kick to shz?
If scum reads come before lurker reads, why was Kick your top read for D3?
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Do you think that the scum is FC/Orange?
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If you had to choose a second one right now, who would it be?
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I think that everyone agrees that the 1-1 thingy is possible or probable. I don't think that we should focus on it today, though. We can looks a associations and the like to find the second scum once we have a red flip, which we should focus on getting today. Let's try to lynch scum today rather than worry about lynching it tomorrow.
That being said, I'm not sure what else there is to say without FC responding to things. I'm pretty convinced on FC, much more so than Orange. Syl lynch is a bad idea for today, FC and Orange look worse.
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That's true. It doesn't make him any townier, though. Orange at least offered a reasonable explanation that he had stated earlier in the day: "scum were fine with us voting kick". This was true, Kick was at least partially bussed. FC's explanation was that his read changed based on something I posted (hopefully not my terrible preflip association case). That's the same excuse I used to justify a bs voteswitch in XXXI.
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If FC flips town, then Orange is probably the most likely, with Syl next. I think that a town FC is very unlikely, however.
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EPT
