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On December 15 2012 12:19 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 11:56 Djodref wrote:On December 15 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote:
Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit.
Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP? They are both as likely to read the OP. But the witchcraft votes part is more likely to be read in details by the town. It turns out that Hapa has misread the OP (his behaviors feels genuine), so my point against him was not so relevant. Weak votes in the early game are a way to get the discussion started. By the way, did you read the witchcraft votes part in the OP or not ? Did you do the same mistake as Hapa ? So you were voting for a good player based on a coinflip? Is that it? If both scum and town are just as likely to not read the op, and you vote for someone based on not reading the OP you are just randomly voting for hapa, a good town player historically, based on a 3/13 chance he is scum? My reading/ not reading the OP is irrelevant to my alignment so I don;t feel the need to talk about that with you. especially after mario and learning of your penchant as scu to force these kind of discussions. How about you talk about something other than the set-up? how about you do some scumhunting. My vote will stay where it is until that happens. It's not a coinflip at all. I've read the witchcraft vote part in the OP carefully and I expect every town player to do so. Mafia players don't have witchcraft votes so I expect them to read this part less carefully. My thinking process is valid. Why do you think that it is not better than a random vote ? Why have you failed to read the part of the OP specifically addressed to town players ? In mario, I was speculating about the setup to avoid contributing. Here I'm trying to identify town players and scum players by checking if they had the same reactions, thoughts process that I have. For me, you couldn't reasonably come up with a 10-3 VT-goon setup idea if you were town. It is also a good way to look town to propose such ideas.
And I would say that reading the OP is not alignment indicative at all. and that any vote for someone not reading the OP is either stupid or scummy.
I do see where you are coming from, though I disagree. So what you are saying is that you voted for hapa based on your feelings that townies were more likely to read the part of the OP that would disprove hapas plan?
Still seems an awfully weak reason to vote for hapa.
Why did you vote for MR Z?
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On December 15 2012 12:30 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 12:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
dp I don't think it's fair to accuse djo based on setup speculation meta because of 2 reasons
1. start of the game and everyone is lurking
2. this game doesn't have standard mechanics
He was voting for someone, based on nothing whatsoever. That is what I am accusing him for. Why are you ignoring my posts ? Did you read this ? Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:19 Djodref wrote:On December 15 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 11:56 Djodref wrote:On December 15 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote:
Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit.
Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP? They are both as likely to read the OP. But the witchcraft votes part is more likely to be read in details by the town. It turns out that Hapa has misread the OP (his behaviors feels genuine), so my point against him was not so relevant. Weak votes in the early game are a way to get the discussion started. By the way, did you read the witchcraft votes part in the OP or not ? Did you do the same mistake as Hapa ? So you were voting for a good player based on a coinflip? Is that it? If both scum and town are just as likely to not read the op, and you vote for someone based on not reading the OP you are just randomly voting for hapa, a good town player historically, based on a 3/13 chance he is scum? My reading/ not reading the OP is irrelevant to my alignment so I don;t feel the need to talk about that with you. especially after mario and learning of your penchant as scu to force these kind of discussions. How about you talk about something other than the set-up? how about you do some scumhunting. My vote will stay where it is until that happens. It's not a coinflip at all. I've read the witchcraft vote part in the OP carefully and I expect every town player to do so. Mafia players don't have witchcraft votes so I expect them to read this part less carefully. My thinking process is valid. Why do you think that it is not better than a random vote ? Why have you failed to read the part of the OP specifically addressed to town players ? In mario, I was speculating about the setup to avoid contributing. Here I'm trying to identify town players and scum players by checking if they had the same reactions, thoughts process that I have. For me, you couldn't reasonably come up with a 10-3 VT-goon setup idea if you were town. It is also a good way to look town to propose such ideas. My vote wasn't a coin flip. I must admit than it wasn't a strong vote, but weak votes in the early game usually can get the discussion started and are great to help you read someone. In this regard, this post Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Fuck I hate playing town. People always want to lynch me day one.
Source: my last three town games. and this game. is a very scummy reaction to Hapa vote on you. Not to mention you already OMGUS vote him. ##Vote DarthPunk
So you are voting for me by sheeping the weakest part of hapa's case against me?
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On December 15 2012 12:33 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:24 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 12:17 thrawn2112 wrote:
dp I don't think it's fair to accuse djo based on setup speculation meta because of 2 reasons
1. start of the game and everyone is lurking
2. this game doesn't have standard mechanics
He was voting for someone, based on nothing whatsoever. That is what I am accusing him for. Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 11:59 Djodref wrote:On December 15 2012 11:52 Blazinghand wrote:
You can use one of your votes to cast a "no-one" vote. If "no-one" wins, it blocks out a spot in the election. Today there are 10 townies alive, which means you are electing three blues, which means you must cast three witchcraft votes. One of these votes may be a vote for "no-one", and if it is in the top 3 choices town will have one less blue role than usual tonight. The OP was pretty straightforward imo. We cannot force a 10 VT - 3 goons setup. Stop speculating set-up now. Scumhunt or die. Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote:
So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one.
not town win condition Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Fuck I hate playing town. People always want to lynch me day one.
Source: my last three town games. and this game. who doesnt like playing town.....
Me. Right now. Playing town sucks hard. Because I have idiots sheeping a trash case by hapa just because it was hapa who made it.
And it's not playing against win con to vote for people you feel have a disruptive presence day one, especially if you think they could also be scum.
It aids in creating a positive town atmosphere.
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Let me elaborate on a previous point.
Djo: What about MrZ's self vote made you vote for him. What is scummy about self votes? You said scum are likely to do that. Do you have any links to games you have played in to backup that assertion?
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EbWOP:
Ninja'd somewhat.
Ignore the parts that you have already answered.
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On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote:Why DP is Scum
Strange Tunnel on DjoShow nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:05 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 10:55 Djodref wrote:On December 15 2012 10:49 Hapahauli wrote:On December 15 2012 10:44 Djodref wrote:
Yeah, okay, but I really think that we should avoid it if we can.
I know it's going to be very difficult, but we have to refrain ourselves from doing it while the Witch Hunter is alive... The thing is that you can't live in fear of things like that. I mean when it really comes down to it... who cares about blue roles? A town can win without blues. All we can do is play the game and try to find mafia. If someone gets shot, so be it. In fact I'm half tempted at this point to have a policy of never voting blues. That way, we'd have a 10-3 setup of 3 mafia goons vs 10 VTs, which IMO is town favored. You can only vote for one no-vote. Do you have even Witchcraft vote Hapa ? Maybe you would be more interested in the way you have to use them if you did ? ##Unvote
##Vote Hapa Wow your an idiot. ##Vote: Djodref.Votes Zentor for meaningless self vote. That was obviously meaningless. Doesn't want to give town reads which is just ridiculous. Votes for Hapa whom actually brings up a really good point. 13-3 all vt all goon is actually super town favored.
There is no way a rational townie could believe hapa is scum based on the game so far.So either Djo is being retarded or he is scum. Either way that is enough to get my vote day one. Two things to note about the red/bolded passage: 1) DP does everything short of sucking my dick here. He buddies me just about as hard as you can in this passage. For example, I made no claims that a 10-3 setup is "super town favored." Nor is it actually "super town favored." Yet he goes and exhalts my idea as "really really good." 2) One of DP's main reasons for suspecting Djo at this point is that Djo disagrees with my assessment on the 10-3 setup thing. Part of the implication here is that DP agrees thtaThis is odd, considering his next post.
1.) I thought your Idea was good. It is a stretch to call that sucking your dick. I thought you had a good idea and it was getting shut down unfairly.
2.) I wasn't voting djo for disagreeing with your assessment of the 10-3 thing. That is complete bullshit. I was voting him because he was voting you for no reason that I could perceive.
I saw a good idea. I saw Djo voting for the person with that good Idea for no discernible reason. I could not see anything scummy in your play until that point. So I saw either town being retarded with a nonsense vote, or scum trying to off hapa with a shitty excuse.
On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote:
Despite agreeing with my "10-3 setup" stuff earlier, DP all of a sudden is assuming that Djodref is correct in his setup theory without any clarification from the mod in the mean time.
This doesn't make sense at all. How could you agree with my comments and speculation, then go and post something like this? Very simply, DP lost track of the reasons he was tunneling Djo. His tunneling doesn't have a townie thought-process behind it - he's just trying to heap as much suspicion on Djo as he can.
That is bullshit also. I was discussing djo's vote of you within the context of his own assumptions in order to discover if he was scum or actually just a town throwing around nonsense votes.
I did not assume it was true. I wasn't sure. What I WAS doing was humouring djo's perspective in order to facilitate both a discussion with him and to better understand his mindset.
On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote:This is pretty clear by his next post on the subject: Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote:
Holy shit. Djo be scummy. Look at that un-OMGUS as soon as Hapa unvotes. also. Both his votes have been weak as shit.
Djo. Are scum or town less likely to read the OP? This sounds so desperate to me. It's very clear by now that the argument between me and Djo is simply a misunderstanding of the OP, yet DP twists the hell out of his words and flips a shit.
He unvoted you after you unvoted him. It seemed to me like he was trying to extricate himself out of a shit flinging contest with you which is scummy as shit to me.
But, notice how I am still asking him to clarify his stance on reading OP being alignment indicative? That is because I was not sure and was still trying to figure him out. That is called real scum hunting.
On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote:Other Stuff:Firstly, DP's first post: Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 08:48 DarthPunk wrote:
sup kids. I hate policy talk. That is my policy. I am vanilla town. The only purpose of this post is to stifle discussion. There's zero reason you should be so against policy talk before it even starts.
That is a consistent policy of mine throughout my town games. read them. NMMXXIV for example.
On December 15 2012 12:41 Hapahauli wrote:Secondly, when I vote him - mind you I'm the ONLY person to be suspicious of him so far - he whines about it: Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:55 DarthPunk wrote:
Fuck I hate playing town. People always want to lynch me day one.
Source: my last three town games. and this game. The whining is completely disproportionate to the suspicion put on him. In addition, DP doesn't hate playing town. Fact.
I hate playing town ATM. Because I have had to defend myself from the get go in my last 3 games. It is incredibly tiresome. And it is pissing me off intensely.
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On December 15 2012 12:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Darthpunk
You have anything to add or are you just sheeping hapa like the DJO?
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Anyway. ##unvote
Now that Hapa put some modicum of effort into his case I can see the townie mindset behind his assumptions.
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On December 15 2012 12:51 thrawn2112 wrote:
##Unvote
##Vote Darthpunk
This is not acceptable thrawn. If you are going to vote for someone you need to make the reasons for doing so very clear.
If you are just sheeping hapa. Say so. If you have some other insights, add them to the thread.
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On December 15 2012 13:04 Hapahauli wrote:@ DPOne of the things rather offputting about your gameplay so far is your "anger." For example, you were rather peacable in the opening of Rockband Mini: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&user=87209You were asking questions to one of the newer players (drazak) and overall trying to keep a cooperative atmosphere. Here, it feels like you're tunneling Djo in the most forced manner possible. I find the "tunneling bad town" in such an aggressive manner rather hallmark of your scumplay.
Nope. Bad meta read again. I can be aggressive as both alignments. it depends on the situation and the player.
Djo is someone I know can crack under pressure.
See: Mario Mini.
Therefore I decide to pressure him really hard, because I am confident that he will crack under that pressure and I will gain some insight into his alignment and gain a really solid read either way.
Also I am in a terrible mood.
Seriously everyone seems to have some Idea of my scum meta but they are wrong. Marv was wrong. Blazinghand was wrong. You are wrong. The only person who really gets my meta is keir.
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Assume for the moment I am town. What do you think of the sheeple on my wagon. Thrawn in particular?
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On December 15 2012 13:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Hmm IRC chat seems to corroborate that you're in a bad mood. I can also chalk up most of my case to you being rather angry as well.
##Unvote
It is unfair to use IRC as info in this game. like. grievously unfair.
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Right. Why was your case so uncharacteristically bad originally?
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On December 15 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:14 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 13:10 Hapahauli wrote:
Hmm IRC chat seems to corroborate that you're in a bad mood. I can also chalk up most of my case to you being rather angry as well.
##Unvote It is unfair to use IRC as info in this game. like. grievously unfair. Perhaps a bit unsportsmanlke, but it's allowed in the rules. I just like ribbing BH really.
LOL you should have posted a screenshot.
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On December 15 2012 13:21 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Right. Why was your case so uncharacteristically bad originally? Well you're not going to get an objective answer to that...
It's a genuine question. I have never seen a case that poor from you as town. It set alarm bells ringing immediately.
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Like, Usually your cases are top notch. even when they are wrong. but here it wasn't. I find that odd.
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although it was remedied somewhat later, that was after i had called you out on it....
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On December 15 2012 13:24 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:23 DarthPunk wrote:On December 15 2012 13:21 Hapahauli wrote:On December 15 2012 13:18 DarthPunk wrote:
Right. Why was your case so uncharacteristically bad originally? Well you're not going to get an objective answer to that... It's a genuine question. I have never seen a case that poor from you as town. It set alarm bells ringing immediately. Well in my mind I had posted the "abridged" version. Probably a mix of laziness and that the "idea" I was pushing was rather hard to communicate in writing (involves tracking logic, assumptions, etc).
hmmm.
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Like. I think it is quite possible you are actually scum hapa. Your original case was off. And a lot of the 'reasons' behind my scumminess in your case were actually meh.
Of course there are other things that make me think you are not scum. Like the follow up case on me.
Anyway. I am confident if you are scum I can catch you later as your town play has such a high standard it is almost impossible to emulate as scum.
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On December 15 2012 13:33 Djodref wrote:
@ DarthPunk
Do you have any suspicion on other players than thrawn or myself so far ?
what do you think my position is on you djo?
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EPT
