EPTThe wagon on Sandro is stupid, think by yourself and go check the Looney game !
If you really want to lynch a lurker today, there are better targets for sure !
Check TheChronicler filter and see by yourself if his story makes sense !
I'll be back !
Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 6
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I'll be back ! | ||
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On November 24 2012 05:42 Dienosore wrote: Ok here are the results of my investigation on GF. I believe him to be a leading candidate for the gallows: Mistake No. 1 + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 15:26 goodkarma wrote: Perhaps our host could explain?: Are chosen party members kill-immune? If not, what happens if scum kill a party member? On November 21 2012 16:35 goodkarma wrote: I've touched on this a few times. Hopefully this is the last time clarification is needed. This game isn't about scumhunting. Rather, it revolves around townhunting. On November 21 2012 17:16 goodkarma wrote: The game structure inherantly requires us to produce targets for the mafia, and we'll just need to accept that... I should reword what I said, then, as follows.: Until such a time where lynching becomes an available option, we should be prioritizing townhunting over scumhunting as we choose our party leader and members. @Dieno Seriously do you still have a scumread on me ? People told you that my weird wording was due to the fact that I don't perfectly master the English language... These all happened early and seem to come from a scumbag's perspective. While one post wouldn't necessarily indicate mafia, I became suspicious when they began to stack up quickly Mistake No. 2 [spoiler] On November 21 2012 17:50 goodkarma wrote: Nice to play with you again Toadesstern  . There were a few things you mentioned I would like to briefly touch up on and then I'm really going to bed...What you're saying here seems perfectly reasonable to me. However, I still feel as if blah blah blah... Here he completely glosses over Toad's accusation of Keirathi, indirectly saying to me that he supported the idea of a scum Keirathi. Well, it turned out Keirathi was in the group when we succeeded, so...? Mistake No. 3: + Show Spoiler + On November 22 2012 15:10 goodkarma wrote: Okay. To the best of my ability I have selected a team. 1) Oats: This is a guy who has played unafraid of what others think of him, making a mediocre (at best) case against clarity and chiming in every chance he gets. He clearly is excited to scumhunt, which is what I believe to be the only reason he placed a vote on toad. I visualize a scum in this setup taking more time discussing who's town, which is definitely the "safer" route. 2) Djo: I can't say that I have a very strong read on him, but I'm leaning towards town. He has proposed his own ideas for how to run an election. A scum could be just as forthcoming, however. Beyond that, I have to go off of his reads: he doesn't trust acro and prox, and thinks oats is town. I am in general agreement there. Definitely my weakest read. 3) Sandroba: However much I feel he's playing lazy (he is), I keep coming back to his filter. I do currently believe that he is town. Everything he has done to date has been to provide clarity and insight into reads others have had and the general mechanics of this specific game. He could do this as scum, but I am inclined to believe he could have been a little less helpful and gotten away with it as scum as well. I look forward to seeing his proposed party as this will provide the information I need to help solidify my understanding of his thought process and determine if he truly belongs on this platform. But as it currently stands, I believe him to be town, and am including him on my platform. A brief note on Dieno: He is playing so badly that many would consider him likely town, as newbie scum tend to play far more cautiously. However, the persistence and singlemindedness with which he's been pushing his campaign (even after repeatedly being warned) and shitting up the thread leaves enough doubt in my head to exclude him. As a newbie town trying to improve he would have changed his gameplan long ago, as a troll he would be more, well, trolly, and as a newbie who doesn't give a shit he would have given up. How he's been playing is just plain sad, to the point where I wonder if what he's been doing is deliberately anti-town as a scum. He most definitely could be town, but I would rather not take such a risk on such an unknown. So he picked Oats for the obvious towny to gain people's trust, Djo who has always been suspicious to me, and Sandro who has recently come under heavy fire as a scumbag. Not very solid picks IMO. Also, why attack me at the end of it? He doesn't directly call me scum, but it seems as if he is trying to plant some seeds of doubt at least. He ends up switching his party no much later to Djo/Phagga/Dien. Why so flip floppy, I ask? He later revealed that I made the cut solely because of my roleclaim. Mistake No. 4 + Show Spoiler + On November 24 2012 01:19 goodkarma wrote: I am not in the least bit surprised that he has made one. But he has come to the correct conclusion, for the right reasons. I do regret that the last few times I've played with him I never took the time to congratulate him, so I'll do so now. He played NMM XXIII spectacularly, and it has been a pleasure to play with him since then. <3 Happa He seems overly relieved to finally have someone call him town. Even threw in a cute little heart there too. My gut says he started off very scummy, then toned it down a bit after he decided to drop his campaign and try to blend in. He is definitely top 3 on my Mafiadar. My next target: Sandroba [/QUOTE] | ||
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@TheChronicler I was sleeping, I'm back now ! I want you to 1) explain how and when you assessed syllo alignment yesterday and why you didn't explain your reasoning in the the thread. You were afraid to give the power to a scum player so I'm surprised you somehow blindly picked syllo. 2) give me an example of what we could have achieved with your plan. -For example, give me a configuration where your plan was going to assure the success of the event. I don't think your plan was aiming to have some successful events but I might be wrong. -For example, give me a configuration where your plan was going to allow us to catch a mafia player. | ||
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On November 24 2012 13:26 TheChronicler wrote: on phone. @djo 1) read my filter, already responded 2) my plan wasn't so much about winning the event as getting the information from for peoples decisions not just one. I think we got lucky winning the first event, and everyone now thinks we made the right decision because if that. But how strong are town/scum reads d1? How easily are they wrong? I've seen enough d1 mislynches to know things are more luck than actual hunting. If you accept that luck p lays a huge factor, then choosing thee people to choose another three won't make a difference for the end result. However, you will get a lot of information from the choices of the three chosen. I'm going home ams on my phone, I know the spelling and formatting is horrible. @zbo You're either scum or don't read actually read filters. I reasoned to acro's accusations. Afaik he still hasn't responded to my response, though. @TC 1) it's wrong. You have never explained in details how and when you decided that syllo was town. I want you to explain it now and why you didn't to do it. 2) I don't care about what happened for us. Everytime we discussed about your plan, you say something like "what if the party leader was mafia and stuff". I want you to show in which situations your plan would have been useful for town. I want you to expand your thoughts about your plan. I don't care if everyone else thinks it's bad and that we shouldn't clutter the thread an so on. You still think that your plan is good right ? I'm giving you an opportunity to show it to everyone. | ||
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Let's say you would have been elected as a party leader yesterday. Who would you have chosen and why ? Who do you expect these people would have chosen and how were you planning to decipher this information ? And things like "d1 mislynches happen too often for us to be able to have reliable reads" and "luck plays a huge factor", I totally disagree with these things. First because we were supposed to do some townhunting yesterday, and not some scumhunting. I honestly think that it's easier to get townreads than scumreads, especially with totally new players. Show me that you really believe in your plan and that there was actually something town could benefit from with it | ||
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On November 24 2012 14:02 Z-BosoN wrote: @TheChronicle You keep saying I'm not reading, that people are not reading, that people are stupid, or whatever, but you fail to supply evidence. I've searched your filter yet again and couldn't see where you responded to this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=102#2037 At least in a way in which I could recognize it as an attempt. Can you please quote the part where you replied specifically to the post I linked? @Z-BosoN He has already addressed it. His plan was not based on the fact that people were going to chose other people based on their townreads, but based on "certain reads". So there is no apparent contradiction but it reinforces my conviction that he made this plan to not be elected with. I'm not saying that the plan is necessarily bad, in fact I'm quite interested with his idea, but what I'm sure is that his plan was not well thought through, it doesn't look like he really believes in it and it's was made with the goal to not be elected. | ||
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On November 24 2012 14:15 Z-BosoN wrote: This makes zero sense to me. Why would he pick three people if not people based on his own town reads? What the hell do you/him mean by "certain reads". What other reads are there when choosing the "team pickers"? I don't know, you ask him. | ||
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On November 24 2012 14:21 TheChronicler wrote: Probably because I didn't decide he was town. So me saying I chose him bc he was my town read would be wrong. I didn't have a scum read on him, his plan was pretty opposite of mine, and cave had been trying to say he wasn't a viable candidate when he actually was, which made me think he was trying to keep sylo from being town leader with no solid reasoning. Why do that? Hence my vote. My plan was useful regardless of town leaders alignment because it gave us information based on the choices made by the leader and whoever the leader chose. I just gave a situation where it was useful for town. Honestly, I feel like nothing I say will appease you. Why is that? I think you're trying to justify your bad posting earlier. @TC 1) So basically, the election of the party leader and the process we should apply to pick up the other party members, it was just a big gamble to you. You based your vote on the fact that CJ was opposed to syllo's candidature. What do you know about CJ and his motivation to do this ? 2) I'm saying that your "give us information" mantra is some bullshit you made up. Give me a concrete example with players and alignments. | ||
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Can I ask you what do you think was town main goal yesterday ?
Maybe you thought of another goal. In this case, please explain it to me. Anyway, given the goal you think town should have tried to achieve yesterday, please explain me in details how yor plan was bringing some advantage to your position. | ||
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On November 24 2012 14:40 TheChronicler wrote: 1) anyone saying they have a strong read d1 is lying. I made a decision based on small things, yup. 2) I'm leader, I'm town. I select my three scum reads at the time (which is really just near random). Say I choose Keir, die, Marv. Doesn't matter if kier is scum, he now has a choice proposed to him and his choice gives us information. Same for Marv/die. Information is pro-town. Instead we got sylo and his three choices. So we got lucky, woohoo. What information do we have now? Don't lynch into those 4 because theyre more likely town than scum. Awesome. Now what? You're relying on people's night actions to give us information now. Sweet. @TC 1) First time players like Oats are easy to read. You can easily feel if you they are town or not and my intuition on them is usually correct. I had a strong town read on Oats, Clarity and Dieno at the end of D1. Maybe I'm subconsciously convincing myself that they are strong reads, but I'm not lying. 2) I really doubt that the information which we would have obtained would be reliable. And your plan was really risky if you take into account that we would prefer the event to succeed. Anyway, if you want to find scum, the best method is always to scum hunt. That's the most reliable way imho. | ||
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On November 24 2012 14:49 TheChronicler wrote: You're lucky with your day 1 reads then. It's either horrible scum or pure luck. With nothing to go on and no real interactions no scum should slip up that early. Strongly disagree. @TC We were looking for town players, not for scum players. It's easier... | ||
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On November 24 2012 14:52 iamperfection wrote: zbos i think we already been through that it was a shit plan. he thought it would give him a bunch of information for whatever reason the question is does it make him scum. I think his somewhat stubbornness revolving around the plan is the better tell as he pushed it somewhat early on and even tried to modify to get it to work. He clearly thought it was good and somewhat still good in his mind. I think if he was scum he would more of just went with the flow I think that he is more likely to be town. I disagree. As scum, I would have come with a bad plan and tried to push for it. Does his plan have any sense from a town perspective ? His plan doesn't help us to assure the event success. His plan doesn't help us to find town players. His plan doesn't really help us to find mafia players. The only thing is plan does is giving us some irrelevant information. His plan was made so he couldn't be elected and so he looked like this bad guy with poor ideas and poor logic. Or he is just a guy with poor ideas and poor logic with one year experience on mafia forums. Not buying it. | ||
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On November 24 2012 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote: I've been following it fairly closely, actually. D1 was interesting and honestly, pretty confusing considering the events so far of D2. First of all, I'll start by saying I would have supported Sandroba D1 for leader based on his "plan". When I read it, I hadn't considered any kind of advantage/disadvantage behind the party selection process, and the fact that he shared his idea but not his candidates came across as pretty townie all things considered. That being said, TODAY I share syllo's D1 reservations about Sand's play. For all his posts, he doesn't really come out and call anyone suspicious or attack anyone or really anything that looks like scumhunting. Coupled with his inactivity today and the fact that I've been burned by scumSand in the past (Liar Game) and pretty much I'd like to see a paragon of contribution in Sandroba over the rest of the cycle. Otherwise, I'm chalking up his loss of interest to him being scum and lynching him. D1 I was about certain marv was scum but his activity and apparent interest in the game has picked up considerably (and before I joined no less) so I can let him go for now. I think the successful party should be off the table for lynch today (for reasons I think are obvious) but it should be noted that if Dino's claiming a "power role" or whatever is to be believed, I agree that the others are far from being out from under scrutiny. I think given what we know about the setup, policies like "lurkers" should be avoided unless coupled with some serious meta/reasoning as is the case with Sandroba. But who? Sandroba if he doesn't get back in here and tell me I'm retarded and who I should vote for. I could also get behind an Hapa lynch. :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Hapahauli's play, in my opinion, can be characterized summarily as recalcitrant. His almost automatic discrediting of syllo D1 seemed a little over-the-top to me. Syllo's early posts made it pretty clear (at least to me) that he's trying to do what he can for town. I'm sure he's capable enough as scum to fake it, but honestly (and curiously) I don't fear a scum Syllo like I fear (for example) a scum marv or a scum BloodyC0bbler. If Sandroba hadn't cemented my support D1, I would have supported syllo without question. But Hapa was up in arms about people "blindly sheeping syllo". On the surface, okay. We don't want to "blindly sheep" anyone. However, as marv pointed out at the time, simply supporting someone based on their posts is not the same thing as "blindly sheeping them" and that's what Hapa was insinuating was going on with the WHOLE of the syllo wagon. He was literally saying that "no one supporting syllo has any reason to do so" which is patently false and borders on malicious misrepresentation of the facts. @VE I think you should reconsider your read on Hapa. His filter shows that he has gradually understood how we should play this setup (the election of a party leader and how the members of the party influence the outcome of the event). If he is scum, then he plays this story perfectly. I'm also not surprised that he tried vehemently to run against syllo. Syllo platform for his candidature should have been much more controversial imho. It's strange for me that so many people would be ok with the fact that the party members would not be disclosed and it's somehow a counter-intuitive and risky way to play the setup. Let's say sandro comes back and tell you who you should vote. He kinda did it and it looks like he would like to lynch someone among kita, prom and Clarity. Any thoughts on these three players ? | ||
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On November 24 2012 15:14 TheChronicler wrote: 1) and sylo's has a higher chance of success how? 2) and sylo's has a higher chance of finding town how? 3) and sylo's has a higher chance of finding scum how? 4) the difference between sylo's plan and mine was that mine exposed more people's decisions than sylo. @TC My problem with you is that you are unable to explain how your plan is good and you keep coming at the fact that the other plans were not so much better. That's why I think you don't really believe in your plan. 1) Town syllo would have tried to select town players in his party. Scum syllo would have selected town players in his party to get town credit. I believe town syllo able to make reliable town reads on D1 and there were players really looking town D1. 2) Easy to find town players yesterday. Dieno and Oats show the enthusiasm of first time town players. Dieno has even claimed. I have some other town reads based on the way people have approached the setup and on the general interest they have shown in the game, they are weak reads, but when I have them on players I'm used to play with, I could get confident on these reads. 3) We have a chance to find scum today and we should scum hunt in order to do so. That's something you have failed to do. 4) Yes, but you didn't show me a concrete example of how we could have interpreted these decisions to find scum. It was just a plan for the sake of making a plan. There is no clear town advantage to follow this plan. | ||
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On November 24 2012 15:21 Promethelax wrote: Hey all, just checked the day post and this page, since the mission was successful and I'm pretty sure one or the other of Sand/Syllo is scum Vote ## Sand, mission success=Town Syllo (According to Ockham's laser) I'm here and catching up (a million posts for me to read...). I'm all old and shit now. @Prom If sandro flips town, would you like to lynch syllo after that ? | ||
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On November 24 2012 15:46 Oatsmaster wrote: Djo, as much as I like my name to be called repeatedly town, it's really too much. Yes chroniclers idea is bad, get off his back. If the party had failed the event, there might not even be a lynch cycle so saying that a failed party might be better for scum hunting is irrelevent. Djo, now that BioSC has been replaced, who is your top scum read? @Oats TheChronicler is my top scumread. His plan was some bullshit plan he made on purpose. BioSC was just a scummy lurker and my vote on him was just a pressure vote. Right now, I don't like how VE entered the thread (i.e. "I vote sandro until he comes back telling me that I'm stupid and who I should vote for"). It's almost like he is preparing the field for a town sandro to come back. But I have to hear more from him. Leaning scum at the moment but that's a weak read. | ||
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On November 24 2012 16:36 Oatsmaster wrote: I really dont see how is the plan made 'on purpose' Do you have specific stuff that showed that he didnt care about the plan but was doing it for appearences sake? Do you have any other reads? Scum or otherwise? What do you think about Sandro's defence post? I think the plan was made "on purpose" because he knew he was not going to be elected from the beginning because he is a smurf. You can find it here in his filter. On November 21 2012 12:56 TheChronicler wrote: I figured I'd add in a system that got us as much information as possible.I never expected to be elected since I'm on a smurf, but I really wanted my idea to be used because I think there's a good enough chance we don't get a townie elected (I've lynched enough townies d1 not to be overly confident in my d1 reads) If you are town and come a with a plan, even a bad plan, you always have town interest in mind. His plan was not reliable to assure the success of the event. It was a gamble at most. I conclude that town TC is not really interested in the event success. Ok, maybe, why not, but it's something strange to begin with. His plan was not about to find town players. He is opposed to the fact that people are openly giving their town reads. I conclude that town TC doesn't want to figure out this game by finding town players. His plan is all about getting information. So, I conclude that town TC values information more than anything. Would you agree with me on that point. And yet, this very town TC who values information has made the following choices
For the moment, I have plenty of town reads because I have been looking for town players through D1. The strongest one are Dieno, Clarity and you. Then I'm leaning town on Acro, Z-Bo, Hapa and syllo. A little less on Hopeless, marv and Keir. TheChronicler is my top scumread. I don't like at all the way that risk.nuke and VE are playing at the moment. Weak scum reads on them. Regarding sandro, I believe in his explanations for not being here and I still believe that he is town. The wagon against him is retarded in my opinion. I should look at kita and Prom more closely. Null for both of them now. | ||
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Could you have a look again at TC's filter and check all the remarks and questions he made here and there and tell me
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On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth What does this mean ? Are you kind of a tracker ? | ||
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On November 24 2012 17:22 Promethelax wrote: Sandroba: please claim why you targeted Syllo with your ability last nigth @Prom Sandro claimed to be roleblocked by the way... On November 23 2012 21:51 sandroba wrote: Oh my it seems I'm the only person in the game that doesn't get to have a real life every so often. I spent the night at a girl's house ytd and only got home now. I thought I would give the thread a quick read before heading to bed (yes my sleep schedule is severely fucked up) and I see that suddenly I became the main wagon. Nice. Weekend is ahead and it will be extremelly busy and now I have to fight syllo induced mislynch just to prob face the same problem again the next day. Thx. I'll be here briefily if anyone want to interact, but I'm heading to bed. I took 125 dmg and got roleblocked. | ||
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