|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote:
Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote:
kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits?
I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen.
As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment.
Does this not make it a policy lynch?
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote:
Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote:
kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke?
I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so
"Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays."
which at least indicates a read of some sort.
Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this).
It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:46 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote:
Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote:
kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke? I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so "Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays." which at least indicates a read of some sort. Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this). It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all. You do realize that my entire focus in Storm was pushing a "policy" lynch on RoL due to his absence right? He lived three cycles longer than he should have -_- Anyways, there are a couple more people I want to bring up, then I'll decide on a preferred candidate. Brb.
I do realise this given how I have read your filter from that game about 2 hours ago.
Difference? You specifically gave examples of why his absence made him likely scum. You drew examples of excuses to contribute from previous games where he was scum, and you pushed the idea that RoL went absent much more as scum than as town. In no way have you demonstrated, or at least tried to demonstrate, why Drazerk's behaviour makes him more likely to be scum (*for Drazerk*) than town.
Don't bullshit me, please.
On November 25 2012 01:11 kitaman27 wrote:
I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you.
You are not voting for sandroba nor have you given indications that is where you vote will end up.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
kita obviously picked sandroba.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:57 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote:Don't bullshit me, please. On November 25 2012 01:11 kitaman27 wrote:
I started disliking Sandroba when Sandroba stopped acting like a townie. If you think that's suspicious you need to learn how to play this game. Furthermore the reason I'm voting sandroba is not inactivity and if you don't think he's scummy I want to hear concrete reasons why from you.
You are not voting for sandroba nor have you given indications that is where you vote will end up. lol that's not my post. It got copied into mine from a quote copy/paste -_- @Toad, no I haven't decided yet. I have one more group of people I want to look into first.
well, the part i was asking you not to bullshit me about was your play in Storm re: RoL compared to Cave here... 
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 01:58 Dienosore wrote:
Just seems strange to me that Kita is gathering all this hate, yet no one is backing it up with their lynch vote.
are you going to sit there commentating like a useless buffoon, or actually contribute?
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
what toad?
kita will have guessed the lynch, but he's putting on a show for us deciding who he wants to lynch with his vote...
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:04 Dienosore wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:59 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:58 Dienosore wrote:
Just seems strange to me that Kita is gathering all this hate, yet no one is backing it up with their lynch vote. are you going to sit there commentating like a useless buffoon, or actually contribute? If you're asking me to build a case on someone, I unfortunately don't have the time right now. All I'm trying to do is lay out the facts with my maps and try to catch someone contradicting themselves. Hopefully I can spur some discussion with my revelations, because right now everyone is kind of talking around circles. The same people are calling the same people scum, yet still voting for sandro anyway.
Except you're not providing insight into anything, you're just summarise. Why not give your viewpoint on the arguments going on? you're not laying out any facts except your own interpretations which we're not really party to.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
kitaman27
There's just a couple of things I want to concentrate on with kita. Firstly is his party leader campaign.
On November 21 2012 10:57 kitaman27 wrote:
I'd like to nominate myself as our heroic leader!
The success of these missions appear to carry significant weight and it's something I'd want direct control over. A successful day one will make each of the following days that much easier. I think these mechanics play to my strengths, which is identifying pro-town players early on. I promise to be active and open and not disappear once elected *shakes fist at wiggles*
---
Plus in 30+ games I've never won a mayoral election. Give me the pity vote! <3
Firstly, especially on day 1, it's arguable how active he was. He ran for party leader and then disappeared for large stretches of time. He says in his party leader speech bit here that the missions are very important and that he wants control over it.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 10:03 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 07:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 07:13 phagga wrote:
Acrofales, if you are around, i would still like to know why you do not consider Kita a serious candidate. I dunno. I never consider Kita serious in the first place. I liked his posts this game, but then I kinda forgot about him. If he were to make an impact on the game then I could certainly see him as a serious contender. However he is also a risky candidate, because I don't find him easy to read at all. Kita is practically ruling himself out of the running by having such long stretches without posting. As he notes himself it's similar to a mayoral election and you need your mayor being around and interacting with town, which he is failing to do. THEY'RE BRINGING OUT THE ATTACK ADDS! I WISH IT DIDN'T HAVE TO COME TO THIS BUT I'M GOING TO HAVE TO FIGHT FIRE WITH FIRE (AND MY FLAMES BURN BLACK) The reason I have been absent is because I have been at work all day like a hard working leader should be. Thankfully I have the next two days off! However, do you know who aren't very thankful? Marv, syllo, and sandroba!![[image loading]](http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/17971151/2/stock-illustration-17971151-thanksgiving-day-in-america.jpg) I am deeply saddened to report to you all that these three individuals are suspected of not planning to celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow! There are even rumors that syllo is a VEGETARIAN who enjoys spending the day watching SOCCER! Do you really want to elect a terrorist as your leader? Vote for a true leader. Vote Kita! Paid for by the Kavdragon Sucks PartyMore to come. Stay tuned!
So after one of said absences comes the above post. lololol only one troll post he's already repeated, but whatever. If he genuinely believed he was the best player to lead town and pick out townies for his candidature, and given how important he said it was and how he wanted control, do you really come back after a long absence with a troll post? How was that supposed to help his possible candidature?
His reasons for running for party leader and then his attitude when running for it seem totally incongruous. He said the leadership is very important but his actions in running don't line up with this stated attitude. I do not understand the townie motivation for this.
Secondly I want to look at his scumreads, or lack of them, or lack of good reasoning... you get the idea.
+ Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 11:19 kitaman27 wrote:I'll start with people I wouldn't want on my team or wouldn't want the elected leader to choose for their team. As its still only 24 hours into the game, these are mostly gut or policy exclusions. I'm working on a more concrete post about town reads, but I'm also hoping to put up my 4k post blog tonight so I'm not sure on a time table. Hopefully before I get to bed. iamperfection: His spammy one liners annoy me. I think his post in support of syllo made it look like he decided to vote for syllo and then look for a reason to justify it, rather than the other way around. marv:Show nested quote +On November 21 2012 22:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 21:42 kitaman27 wrote:
There are quite a few people who claim to be voting for sandroba on the basis that they claim to be able to easily differentiate his scum play from his town play. The only reason I see this as the case is that he commonly gets lazy and stops caring or posting as mafia. However, that's simply due to personal choice. How many people here other than maybe syllo are confidant they can identify a scum sandro when he remains active? Having played with him in pypi (an election game), I know he is quite capable of fooling most people when there is something he wants.
I'm quite puzzled by the fact that marv hasn't run for election. As being one of the most active players recently, I think he would be fairly confident at being able to gain support for himself. As town, I know I want to be the leader because that is the only way to directly increase our chances of success. marv however appears to want to avoid the spotlight and participate in an advising role or at least gauge the support he has. Could you explain this decision?
Work time. I'll try to start identifying some town players when I get back if I'm confident enough. I'm not interested at running for party leader atm. And it's not about gauging support, I'd probably just tell town to vote for me from the get go if I wanted it. Why don't I want it? Like syllo I've been hoping to be somewhat 'lazy'. While I will give this game my full attention like any other, partly I've come along for the ride. I don't want to dominate this game (for better or worse) like I'm capable of doing. Plus I don't feel very at home in themed setups like this. There are going to be some differences in how scum/town players act compared to normal setups, and I don't know what they are yet. There are a few players in this game who I hold in extremely high regard (I think are better than me) and in that situation I feel somewhat insecure. If those players weren't in the game I'm pretty sure I would be standing for party leader because I'd think I knew best out of everyone playing, but I don't think that in this game. I found this reply quite lackluster. You don't want to run for leader because you're insecure? Do you value helping out the town or not making yourself look bad more? You refer to players you hold in extreme regard, which clearly can only point to myself, yet you have been against my election from the start. Additionally, how does this being a themed game impact your ability to identify townies? This seems like quite a cop out. risk.nukeBesides the fact that he is probably scum, this jerk taunted me by pretending to be interested in hosting a newbie game and then proceeded to ignore my pms. What a scumbag move. strongandbigHis opinions have been pretty vanilla thus far. I don't think his contributions have earned him a spot yet. kushm4staI'm always weary of an erratic player that is behaving himself.
These are people he wouldn't take on his party. Just ... weak. Why specifically call out strongandbig as someone whose opinions have been pretty vanilla and haven't earned a spot? It's pointless. "hey guys, this player is unremarkable! but i'm gonna remark on him!" risk is called scum for no reasoning, and iamp is "annoying". Great, it's a big bunch of nothing. I bring this up because it's the closest we get to any kind of scumread from kita for a super long time.
His repeated attacks on Cave without ever demonstrating why it made Cave scum:
On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 09:06 Adam4167 wrote:
In regards to my post to kita, I think it stands fine as it is. I am trying to figure out what the hell he is doing, because he claims to want to be taken seriously, but then posts a page of 'joke' reads and then campaigns as if they're perfectly acceptable. I am trying to ascertain if he is just goofing around, and I should ignore him, or if hes intentionally posting more garbage into this thread, something I think we can do without. I had one joke post and one joke read on risk. That's like 5% of my posts, yet you've brought it up three different times. Is this really your biggest concern. I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns) Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote:I blame Acro for this post but apparently my posting is too unique it doesn't work anyway and I feel I need to explain a few things to keep Acro / S+B being murdered because they know me too well. I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). Now to read what I've missed. He's clearly lying about his success modifier. It's a hidden value and he has no benchmark to lead him to believe 4 is a high number. He isn't keeping up with the thread. He's likely lying about his role and has a history of lying about his role. For whatever reason, he claims to think he would be a likely roleblock target. He has a history of never contributing in any game he has ever played in (and I mean that in the nicest of ways <3)
Seriously, read the bolded. kita *knows* drazerk habitually lies and is habitually useless. Where here is there any attempt to demonstrate that Drazerk is scum?
+ Show Spoiler +On November 24 2012 09:02 kitaman27 wrote:In the early game, Cave brings up his identity and reveals that it would be quite damaging to the town to tell us who he is. When someone takes a guess at his identity, he tells us to keep guessing, conflicting with his initial post. Finally, he reveals his identity with an off-the-wall roleclaim. Now if I'm signing up as a smurf, why would I reveal my identity on the first day? The only reason I can come up with is if you have something to gain. From a town perspective, what do you have to gain as to claim draz? He said himself how it would not benefit the town. From a mafia perspective, you have an excuse to lie, troll, and not contribute due to his past reputation. As he is a smurf, we also don't have confirmation that this is actually draz and not just a smurf who is taking advantage of his identity. + Show Spoiler +On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 00:36 Oatsmaster wrote:kush makes me want to shout at him in every single post... Ok for now, I think the party leader should be toadesstern because He started off his post with a scumread, which shows effort in reading the thread instead of mindlessly posting without actually analysing anything like almost every player so far. His posts look really sincere and his logic is spot on On November 21 2012 17:13 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh and I forgot: Yeah we need to find someone to send d1 and that's all nice and fine but I don't think it's a good way to keep the talk all focused on only that.
Faking townreads as mafias is incredibly easy. Faking mafiareads as mafia is something that takes effort. If we're only going to talk about who we're going to send d1 we're giving mafia an incredibly easy time skating by.
I know it feels counterintuitive as clearly the shortterm "goal" is to send a good guy d1 but I think we should try and balance those issues out. After all, the goal in the longrun is to figure people out and we won't be able to do that by playing nice all day long. His posts look really hard to fake for scum and because of his reputation as being imba, I am voting Toadesstern ##Vote: Toadsstern You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation. 1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment. 2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game. Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 22 2012 03:36 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 22 2012 03:28 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:24 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:17 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:16 CaveJohnson wrote:On November 22 2012 03:13 marvellosity wrote:On November 22 2012 03:10 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 03:04 Acrofales wrote:On November 22 2012 02:06 Toadesstern wrote:On November 22 2012 01:14 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
You clearly don't know toad at all. You don't even know toad's reputation.
1. Toad is notoriously hard to read. He posts giant walls of text that ramble on as either alignment and gets into hissyfits with whoever he feels like (most notoriously bugs and VE) as either alignment.
2. If he is imba, he is imba as scum, not so much as town. Personal opinion here, but I haven't seen toad make the difference as town. Unlike some other players in this game.
Now on to the beef of your post: why exactly do you feel his posts are hard to fake as scum? What specific quality makes you lean town on him? So far I am seeing you park your vote in a similar manner to Keirathi, for a similar reason. Last time I had to gather people I was some sort of mason who get's to invite people each and every night to join his QT resulting in the QT growing in number every cycle and having an incredibly powerfull town-circle. I think I picked something like 5 townies straight without a problem at all, including people like WBG who are notoriously hard to read according to most people here. The only mistake I made was when I gambled in lategame as we had 2 Kenpachi-like people (real Kenpachi and someone like Kenpachi) who didn't play the game while not being able to get a read on Marv as well. I picked Marv because I figured that if neither of those 2 Kenpachis is mafia we've lost anyways because one of them will get lynched at some point and it already was lylo. So yeah I think I'm pretty decent when it comes to that as well. I agree I'm by no way the best scumhunter around and I'm mostly working by process of elimination but that's because I trust in my townreads so heavily and they're never wrong. So yeah I think I'm the right guy for the job. Not saying you're not. Just that I have reservations voting for you, and correcting the jubjubs as to your reputation. I've seen you play good as town. I've seen you play better as scum. I saw you are running and I like that. What makes you a better candidate than syllo or sandro? I don't think anyone in here can claim to be better than Syllo or sandro when it comes to reads if that's what you're asking. However unlike Syllo and Sandro I'm someone who's pretty talkactive and I will get people talking about reads. Syllo and Sandro both tend to be pretty lazy threadwise and I don't think that that's something we want for someone who's running for the d1 spot. I don't really see syllogism as lazy. Not his play so far anyway. On November 21 2012 15:28 syllogism wrote:
Oh Sandro is here and posting quite a bit, I may re-evaluate my nomination if I like what I see as I would definitely prefer being as lazy as possible On November 21 2012 22:55 sandroba wrote:On November 21 2012 22:51 marvellosity wrote:On November 21 2012 22:50 sandroba wrote:
I wouldn't mind syllo being leader either and if I win I will give him veto power over the people I choose. I'm fairly certain he is town at this point. what distinguishes a town syllo from a scum syllo in your opinion? He is way less conflict enticing / questions asking as scum and just chillax and agrees with people that are the right track. This game he says he will be lazy, but isn't and is activily doing shit left and right. So yeah. I'll take the wishes of the actual player over an interpretation of play from someone who is being supported by the player in question. Syllo has chosen himself to be taken out of the running and we should respect that. On November 21 2012 22:45 syllogism wrote:
Right now it is likely that I will support sandroba if I do not gain the necessary votes, even if I'm not "fairly sure" that he is town. The problem is that just electing someone who is very likely to be town isn't enough as the person has to also be able to identify 3 townies at a high enough probability on day 1. Anyway, currently it would definitely optimal from my point of view that I would be elected over him due to my uncertainty. I'm not likely to put effort into convincing sandroba voters to switch to me, if that's what you mean by running, but I'm definitely "running" in the sense that I wouldn't mind people voting for me.
Last time I respond to you. You clearly don't read the thread. He doesn't care to convince people - Thats taking himself out of the running. You clearly don't read the thread On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote:
Also I still dislike Marv / DJ and I think any votes for Syllo is a vote wasted. However there is at least 1 third party in the game judging by my flavour (I can handle them myself before you ask). On November 23 2012 05:12 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 04:58 Hapahauli wrote:
yaaaaay another sheeper.
Well I hope that Syllo is town for our sake I'm just taking the enemy of my enemy approach with this election. Might be worth doing the same for consolidation Cave shows little interest in electing a leader on day one. He discredits syllo several times by stating that he is not running. When it becomes clear that syllo actually is running, he simply calls him a wasted vote, without elaborating. He finally decides to vote for me, while giving no indication that he has a town read on myself. Next, I'd like to look over his roleclaim: Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 02:46 CaveJohnson wrote: I claim Drazerk the Invoker Chef I prepare dishes far and wide and have learnt techniques lost in time. I have 27 1 time use abilities and 1 multiple use ability but I can't use any if I go on a mission. So far I know 2 of my abilities (THEY ARE SO GOOOOOOOD) and can gain the knowledge of 2 more each cycle (although I can technically use any ability without knowing what it does but I'm not that insane). My success modifier is 4 which is too low to justify not using either of my 2 abilities I already have. First off, we know that he doesn't know his success modifier. It's a hidden value. He mistakenly sees another player reference their hypothetical modifier and pretends to know his. He claims that his success modifier is low, yet has no reference to go by. This is a lie. Besides the fact that his role sounds extremely implausible, if a post is partly a lie, there is no reason to believe anything at all. Furthermore, he references a third party character that he needs to take down. How would this fit in with the flavor of a Chef at all? Who is he hunting, the evil third party mushrooms? Now here is the part that I'm not able to put together. What is the purpose of the fake role claim? Is he just playing to his reputation of compulsive fake role claims? Is he trying to draw a hit? When marv claimed to take damage, he seems to indicate that he may have been responsible due to sort of reflective damage ability. Now this leads me to three thoughts: 1) If his first conclusion is that marv tried to hit him, is this the reason marv was the target of a roleblock? 2) If he truly can reflect damage, attempting to take a hit would fit in line with his role claim, even if lying to town is an incredibly awful way of doing so. 3) By claiming damage reflection, is he trying to discredit further attacks on himself for self preservation. Today he has been gone. He has provided no input on today's lynch. I've seen draz play like this several times as mafia and town. At the end of the game, if he's scum, he laughs at the fact that town has ignored him. If he's town, he appears amused and plays the same way the next game. I think he should be forced into a full role claim with an explanation of his entire intentions thus far. At this point, the benefits of hiding his role, does not outweigh the distraction he is causing. If he tries to give us more nonsense, he should be lynched. If he doesn't post again this cycle. he should be lynched.
He does it again. A big case against Draz without ever saying why it made Drazerk scum. I pushed kita on it not so long ago because I know kita isn't really a fan of policy lynches. I find his answers pretty lacking, especially his equation to his pushing Storm mafia which I talked about here:
On November 25 2012 01:49 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 01:46 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:36 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 01:19 marvellosity wrote:On November 25 2012 01:17 kitaman27 wrote:On November 25 2012 00:26 Acrofales wrote:
Not saying Drazerk should never be lynched, but I fail to see how his claim makes him a priority for lynching now. The candidacy is only damning because I agree there should have been some scum in there. If Cave should be lynched, when is the best time to do so? Is he going to suddenly provide a page long post of his suspicions in the coming days that's going to give us insight into his alignment? Is the endgame the best time to take care of him when we're battling Lavos? On day three or four, would you rather have more information to go by for Cave or another player? On November 25 2012 01:05 marvellosity wrote:
kita, why do you want to lynch Cave?
Isn't he basically a policy lynch? Out of the players that you have commented on, Cave appears to be one of your strongest scumreads. Has your opinion changed? I guess it depends what you classify a policy lynch as. If a player gets caught lying and is anti-town the entire game, is it following a policy lynch or is it lynching a player because they are showing scummy traits? I abandoned my scumread on Cave in favour of a wtf-read upon learning it's Drazerk the madmen. As you know Drazerk lies and is anti-town all the time regardless of his alignment. Does this not make it a policy lynch? Perhaps, but I still view him as anti-town, as oppossed to a policy lynch on a player like BM, simply due to the fact that he is BM. I usually don't advocate lynching liars that I can see some benefit from, such as GM's fake medic claim in team melee, but I'm not seeing how drazerk's claim benefits the town or makes any sense. How do you recommend we deal with him? Ignore him and save him for last? What is your opinion on nuke? I'm not sure about nuke right now. He seems somewhat invested but not enough to make me want to call him town. Just a note on your case, you said he wasn't worried day 1 when voting for sandroba whether he was town, but he had said when he did so "Additionally his activity is promising and I have a pretty good insight of how he plays." which at least indicates a read of some sort. Regarding Cave: perhaps he can be roleblocked and vigged at some point, maybe he can be lynched later. But is it seriously your opinion that he has the highest chance of flipping scum today? It's the fact that you are considering this that seems so subpar from you (sorry if you feel insulted by this). It feels like the easy way out on a lynch, and that does not feel like your town play I read from LV/Storm at all. You do realize that my entire focus in Storm was pushing a "policy" lynch on RoL due to his absence right? He lived three cycles longer than he should have -_- Anyways, there are a couple more people I want to bring up, then I'll decide on a preferred candidate. Brb. I do realise this given how I have read your filter from that game about 2 hours ago. Difference? You specifically gave examples of why his absence made him likely scum. You drew examples of excuses to contribute from previous games where he was scum, and you pushed the idea that RoL went absent much more as scum than as town. In no way have you demonstrated, or at least tried to demonstrate, why Drazerk's behaviour makes him more likely to be scum (*for Drazerk*) than town. Don't bullshit me, please.
In that game he was pushing RoL for being scum due to his absence, and he's pretending here that his push on Drazerk is similar, which it is not. He made a clear effort in Storm demonstrate that RoL was scum, by drawing on past games. No effort to do so on Cave here.
For whatever reason kita keeps saying he's going to look at sandroba next but never actually has.
On November 24 2012 08:04 kitaman27 wrote:
Right now I'm looking at sandroba, Cave, and two other individuals. More to come.
On November 24 2012 09:11 kitaman27 wrote:
My remarks on sandroba proved to be quite accurate. He disappears and here we have people screaming that it exactly matches his scum meta of being lazy, while we have other people that are convinced that his absence is something he would never do as scum. I'll be looking at him next most likely..
There are several mentions of sandroba in kita's filter but always in passing, always something in the future. Also I've pointed this out before, but remember:
On November 23 2012 09:21 kitaman27 wrote:
I nominate Cave as an alternative to sandroba (I'm still in favor of a sandroba lynch while he continues to be afk, and likely even after he returns)
Literally the first time he mentioned he's in favour of a sandroba lynch. How can he be 'still' in favour of it? Nothing makes sense in kita's approach to sandroba's this game.
To summarise briefly: kita ran for party leader on the basis that he wanted control because his town reads are good and he wanted to help town and that was done best by leading. He then did he best to trivialise his campaign by being absent for stretches and making a massive joke post. His scumhunting has not been scumhunting at all. With his first reads post he gives no reason why anyone is scummy. He gives no reasons why Cave is scummy, merely that he continues to be Drazerk. He is in favour of a sandroba lynch by magic, although he keeps putting off talking about him. kita is seriously not hunting for scum.
##Vote: kitaman27
Having said all this  I'm not averse to a sandroba lynch either. I find his lack of contributions remarkable. People have been comparing his play to Looney lynch mafia, where he was almost lynched Day 1. Do you know the difference? In that game sandroba had OriginalName as his clear scumread with a good explanation, and during Night 1 he told town to lynch both da0ud and prplhz with reasons. That sandroba, while absent for long periods, was clearly looking to find and lynch scum. That's absent here. I would consolidate on sandroba if needed to secure a lynch.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 02:57 TheChronicler wrote:
Lol djo so scummy. Finally got people to move off sand, better go for it bud!
All I see you doing is calling Z-bo scum repeatedly in an omgus fashion and now you're randomly calling Djo scum.
Shape up if you're town.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
look, can people leave the lecturing to me 
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:00 Djodref wrote:
@marv
Let's assume that you are right and that kita is scum and nit lying about the guessing game.
What do you make with the fact that he looks afraid of dealing with sandroba ?
Hint: check also VE post when he entered the thread
Hey Djo, spell it out for me please dear.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:03 Acrofales wrote:
@Marv: only half of your case is decent, which is disconcerting to me. Please explain the scum motivation for Kita treating his own campaign as a joke.
better than 0% of your face being decent. booooooooooooooom!
your point, I imagine, is that a scum kita would also want to win the election. The troll post I spoilered is basically an admission of defeat. But it serves him better to look although he's still staying in the running (indeed he has said on a few occasions that he hasn't trolled MUCH, that was the only real one, etc.). It's useful to have confusion in the thread, to have confusion in the votes, it's useful not to properly have to take stances on the other main candidates because you can go "i'm running, vote for me!". Effectively it's a sidestepping of taking responsibility for anything under the guise of running for party leader. Again, given the importance he stated of him having party leader for the good of town, his subsequent attemps to secure it do not match up (see "people he would not take" post I spoilered in my case as an example)
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:10 VisceraEyes wrote:
My daughter is having a princess tea party for her fifth birthday. This kita wagon popped up out of nowhere, and while I want to get to the bottom of it, I really have to go. :/
@Marv
Your case is the most recent and it's making at least a little sense without me going to filter the guy. I looked at Kita early on because of his bullshit campaign post and found trolly kita - not really alignment indicative...but yeah, this Draz thing and the fact that he keeps dancing around Sandroba is especially damning if you subscribe to the sandScum theory.
My problem with it is this: if Sandroba is scum and Kitaman is scum too, then why would they run against each other for leader?
Why not? 2 people running means at any point you can pull out and lend your support to the other guy if it seems like that's the best course of action. That kinda bs happens in politics all the time.
Bear in mind at the beginning of the day syllogism and me are very real party leader options. Like, scum could choose one scum to run, but they could choose 2 as well. Why not?
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:15 Oatsmaster wrote:
Yes didnt get sniped by VE :D.
Have fun :D
I totally agree with marv on kita at this point.
Should we let Sandro slide on the basis of if he is town, he is brillant.
or should we vote Sandro because he has done nothing that benefits town so far.
kita is very strong as town too.
Actually I failed to talk about this in my case and I should have, although I have mentioned it elsewhere this game. I usually find kita strong, insightful, and powerful as town - this was reaffirmed reading Storm and LV. Here his push on CJ, repeatedly, and other shit like that feels weaker.
You don't let anybody slide on the basis of how good they might be as town. Honestly they both have a decent chance of flipping scum at the moment, and you should vote for who you think is likeliest to flip scum.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:37 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 25 2012 03:23 TheChronicler wrote:On November 25 2012 03:12 Acrofales wrote:On November 25 2012 02:20 TheChronicler wrote:On November 24 2012 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
TheChronicler
I am glad your thought process is finally becoming clear and I am starting to see why you think there is no contradiction there. Let me go through it with you and see if I understand you this time round. If any point is wrong, please correct it, or if the whole thing is wrong, please say so. We will get to questions and considerations afterwards.
1. You have no confidence in your own D1 scum or town reads.
2a. You extrapolate from that that nobody else can be right in their D1 reads either.
2b. Or you have seen so many D1 mislynches that you conclude town sucks at picking scum and therefore also sucks at picking town.
3. Therefore the best town can do when facing the problem of picking not one, but four town reads on D1 is to choose pretty much at random and pray that we're right.
4. Your plan would probably fail the event (but that is unimportant, because we would probably fail the event anyway, see point 3), but would give us insight into who picked whom and based on what reasoning. We could then use this to scumhunt in the rest of the game.
Further considerations are that you would pick your scumreads to give their preferred party member and not town reads.
Is this assessment correct? Please also indicate whether you feel 2a or 2b is most accurate, or both are considerations you had in mind? Both 2a and 2b. Someone pointed out earlier that there are cases like crazy claims that almost have to be town, so there is that, but picking someone like Keir to be on the team seems absurd to me. Why not pick someone like Marv (who didn't even run iirc)? I think 4 is worded unfairly, but yes. Okay, moving on. I cannot fathom why you voted Syllo. Please explain it again. From my point of view: you think chance of success at the event is very small. You don't think Syllo can actually read townies, so it's like flipping a coin whether we succeed or not. All you hope to obtain from the event is information and Syllo offers you the least of it. Why vote Syllo, with as reason that CJ is opposed to Syllo. Rather than Hapa, Kita, Toad or Sandroba, who were all giving information about why they were picking their team, which insofar as I understand you, equates to more information. How did the others give more information? Every candidate's thing was "we pick town reads". Who cares if someone's reads are invisible until after event. That has no impact on the information we end up with. Cj's nonsense pushed me to a sylo vote, and that's pretty much it. I give up. You keep contradicting yourself. I don't know what to make of it. I see it as scum, but apparently I am the only one (or one of the few). Trying to figure out how your brain works is about as useful as trying to figure out Kush. The only way to make sense of you is through meta and you are deliberately withholding that. I am done talking to you. Marv, Syllo, Toad, Kita, Sand: you guys really don't get scum vibes from this guy? He has not held his story straight once. Now I know inconsistency is not a scum trait, but it makes it impossible to determine the motivation behind the actions, and the only reason I can think of wanting to do that is for scum.
He could be scum, but he could be town. I think kita and sand both have significantly higher chances of flipping scum. If TheChronicler continues to be useless in the coming days, I'll look at him again. I just don't think he's the best lynch for today.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:40 Dienosore wrote:
I'm going to be rather afk from now until the vote. Going to go ahead an lock something in. As far as I can tell, the three big candidates for the gallows are looking like either Sandroba, Kitaman, or TheChronicler. I'll delay my afk-ness for as long as possible so these three can make one last case for me why they shouldn't get my vote.
Rather than proving someone else is scum, I'd like for them to prove their innocence.
Have it it, boys. I don't have much time left. If none of you reply to this, then im going to have my sister who has no idea what mafia is to randomly pick one of your names.
This is ludicrous. I am town and I have no idea how I would go about 'proving my innocence' to you if I wanted to try.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On November 25 2012 03:45 kitaman27 wrote:
I explained why Cave has to die, I explained why I am on the fence about sandroba, I explained why I have a scum read on nuke (which you don't even bring up).
You mention that I haven't been drawing on past games with my drazerk case. I read through pokemafia and aperture yesterday and steamship/one of the normal games today. I could bring up a bunch of examples of how he fake claims and posts nonsense, but that's common knowledge. I am well aware of the fact that he has a history of doing this as town. To me, the difference comes down to motivation. At the current point, I don't see how his post benefits town, rather than personal amusement. He has responded a couple times to my questions and completely dropped off the map.
Why do you ignore the 200 damage that I've been targeted with in your case. Do you think this is a town ability or that I'm lying about it?
Everyone wants Cave to die, what you didn't do is explain why he is scum. Do you actually get a sense from these other games that he ever posts to benefit town? If so, could you provide examples, because I've never been able to see it.
I ignored the 200 damage because I have no way of telling whether it's a town ability, you're lying about it, or you're town after all targeted by scum, so I see no point in speculating about it.
Same with sandroba's damage and roleblock. I have no way of verifying that either.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
Although, kita, I will agree with you on this - Prome's absence is completely disgraceful given his earlier revelation and the fact that sandroba is the main wagon. That's pretty much completely unacceptable, whatever real life excuses he'll give us.
|
United Kingdom36160 Posts
It is somewhat tempting just to kill sandroba simply on the basis that kita is at least trying.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
