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Chrono Trigger Mafia - Page 12

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Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 00:51 GMT
#6315
Kita, I believe you have silver points. Do you know what you can do with them?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 01:35 GMT
#6331
On December 05 2012 10:08 kitaman27 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 09:51 Hopeless1der wrote:
Kita, I believe you have silver points. Do you know what you can do with them?


Nope.

Anyone wanna sell me something?

i.e. ask the hosts? I am of the impression you can trade silverpoints for gold, and then give it to TC (or if someone else claims an ability that uses silver points or gold, then I leave it to you to make a read.)


On December 05 2012 10:18 Promethelax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 10:14 Hapahauli wrote:
On December 05 2012 10:12 goodkarma wrote:
This flip provides an abundance of information.

Kita can be nearly "confirmed" as not scum by simply asking around and confirming that no one else was playing the guessing game the days he claimed to be + Show Spoiler +
(I mean maybe they opted not to use their ability multiple nights so he could do this but I find that incredibly unlikely and suboptimal...)
.

Cave claimed to take headbutt one night. I'm actually not inclined to buy into this as "confirmation" he isn't scum. Headbutt has the unique ability of hardly doing any damage at all. The other of strong's abilities can only be used when a role name is known, making strong effectively in a position of uselessness if he doesn't have a role to go off of. I could completely picture Cave fake claiming headbutt, or even actually taking 1HP headbutt damage + Show Spoiler +
(on a night where scum didn't have a role name to target)
, as scum to get town cred. It would cost scumteam almost nothing to do...

If VE's afk lurk modkill is any indication, scum is disheartened and have given up on this game. Looking for the last one (assuming 5 scum setup) may be as easy as seeing who else has stopped caring. In this context, I can understand how some have decided risk is a good lynch candidate for today. However, I still have reservations. Did it occur to anyone else how absolutely crazy it would be for a mason-type role to be scum-affiliated? I have yet to see this in a game... That aside, I've already discussed how I feel about a risk lynch. I'm still against it.


I will be reassessing my reads either tonight or tomorrow morning and making my case for who I feel we should lynch.


Can you post the logs from the QT (especially those regarding risk). Also, Mad Men Mafia had some sort of mafia-mason from what I remember.


It had more than one mafia mason. I don't think that a mafia mason is unlikely.

The madmen mafia was 1 target at a time that masoned you and your target for a cycle. This is a mason tent. That said, I have some more setup speculation to go over.

So far, we have 4 flipped scum. Here are my thoughts:

  • Prehistory - Azala/Black Tyranno (Unknown)
  • Antiquity - Queen Zeal (Toad) OR* Dalton (unknown) *see below
  • Middle Ages - Magus??? (Unknown)
  • Present Day - Norstein Bekkler (VisceraEyes/BioSC)
  • Future - Mother Brain (Unknown)
  • End Of Time - Spekkio (sandroba)
  • Black Omen - Queen Zeal (Toad)
  • Not specified - Nu (strongandbig)

4 known scum flips and I've outlined a potential 8 as food for thought.

As far as my current reads:
##Lynch: austinmcc

Anyone have thoughts on my case that is primarily on Z-Bo? I'll read into risk.nuke's meta to see if I agree with what Acro has concluded in the meantime.
What are we voting for this cycle? Just a lynch?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 01:52 GMT
#6339
On December 05 2012 10:38 Hapahauli wrote:
@ GK

Thanks!

@ Hopeless

I posted my thoughts earlier. I really don't see how Z-Boson was scummy at all. Nor do I see any scumminess in austin's play.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922&currentpage=307#6133

There is a degree of confirmation bias in my read, but I will further explain my reasoning at some point during the day tomorrow in response to your points. Lots of content to digest at the moment.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 18:07 GMT
#6495
@Hapa
On December 04 2012 15:03 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Hopeless

I'm parsing through your Z-Boson case and I don't agree with it at all. Your 3rd section (about his voting actions on D2) rather strongly indicates that he's town to me.

So Z-Boson has put heavy pressure on StrongandBig (who we're all expecting to flip scum) in the very early game. Then hypothetical scum-ZBo turns down a really easy bussing opportunity (Sandro) to... vote ANOTHER of his teammates? I'm not buying it. He's a bit all-over the place, but it's not scummy at all.

He definitely could be scum but I think his early-game actions speak against it. Furthermore, calling damage-night actions on a replacement is a pretty bad idea. Especially austin, who IMO is pretty easy to read.


The thing about the day 2 voting is that he was on the fence about sand most of the day, spent all of his activity on TC and his Toad suspicions were held in the back of his mind. He never voted for TC and never gave more reasoning on Toad other than Acro's case and Toads activity being different than that game Toad was an Assassin. His aversion to sandroba's wagon based on the days activity is scummy to me. I feel like if just a couple more people had voted TC, he would have been all over that and would have just ignored Toad altogether.

Also, I never explicitly tried to call vig shots on austin (and I've claimed temporary VT), I meant I was going to try to get him flipped via lynch.

As for his "heavy pressure", Z-Bo's case on SnB was complete ass, as Adam has tried to explain to you already.
- SnB has played a ton of games with marv, and has a town read on marv super early.
- SnB's filter looks like his town filter from Mario Mini.
- SnB scum, shoot plox.

I realize the first point is trying to say that marv's activity early in this game is different than others, but I don't think thats necessarily true, and SnB is a WAY better gauge of that than Z-Bo is. His scumread on SnB is complete bullshit, even if it was correct.


I'm looking through SnB's filter, and austin calls him out for not checking in with GreY regarding his role mechanics, and this does feel townie to me, especially the reference to the CPR Doc. it looks like austin is trying to figure things out and can't see a town reason for SnB to do what he did.
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 03 2012 06:33 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 03 2012 06:28 austinmcc wrote:
SnB
Leaning scum. Mainly based on the roleclaim, because ... that's the thing I most have to work with. Forget the rolenaming. Forget his other stupid ability that he claimed. He says:
My main ability is Secrets of the Nu, which is the 250 damage/+300 max hp ability


(1) SnB says he never asked Grey how this works. Other people seem to be expressing concern that he equated +max HP with "heal" without checking with Grey. Yes, that's questionable.

But beyond that...SnB isn't an idiot. If that were actually SnB's ability, he would absolutely have to check with Grey, because...it frigging does 250 damage. The way it's phrased, you can't tell how the parts resolve. Does it do 250 damage to someone, and then, if they're alive, heal them/raise hp? EVEN IF SnB thought +max hp = heal, he has to ask whether he can accidentally kill someone before raising their hp. That's...crazy important. I can believe that he interpreted +max HP to be heal, but I can't believe he wouldn't ask whether both happen at once or whether he basically CPR docs someone if they're under 250 hp.


(2) The wording. Grey likes flavor. Grey likes...complex roles that punish gaming the setup (roleclaims, ability claims, whatever). But Grey doesn't create stupid roles.

The text of that ability just makes no sense, see (1). If it heals, it should just say "Raise targets max hp 300, heal them for 50." Ta da. It's simple. You can't misinterpret it. Your doc can't kill someone now. Gut feeling, I don't think Grey would create a role that mixed damage/possible heal for no good reason. It's much more likely that SnB has a similar ability, now has to try and find a logical fakeclaim, and so the wording comes out really garbled.



Out of his filter...I don't get too much. But he's only been vocal about a couple topics. His posts are generally pretty small, but perk up on three/four topics.

The party election D1
Hapahauli
(Maybe toad)
Phagga

There's one big toad post where he votes toad, although from the looks of it toad was caught by a check. So...scumSnB would have had to do that. But he perks up towards the end of the vote D1, and we know that at least one candidate, Sandroba, was scum. So on two of the topics he's been...more wordy about, scum has been involved.

I dunno about ALL of SnB's longer posts being about scum, but I could see Hapa or Phagga being scum just based on the way SnB has posted less when scum wasn't concerned. Maybe one a mislynch candidate, one a scumbuddy? I'll give them a look.


i already said that i clarified my ability with greymist, it raises someone's max health but does damage to their current health, and raising max health doesn't change current health.


(See nested quote above)

In addition, I'm seeing too many things that require scum to bus. Its possible he bussed hard and bussed often, but Z-Bo could just have a good gut instinct on SnB and Toad this game. The claimed actions seem reasonably verifiable so I'll look into that, but right now I'm not feeling good about lynching austin.
##Unvote(lynch): austinmcc
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 18:14 GMT
#6497
Can I get a refresher on the risk.nuke case? Is it primarily Acro's "meta" read into how he grows complacent/disinterested over time?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 19:42 GMT
#6520
On December 06 2012 04:33 syllogism wrote:
Acrofales is literally the towniest person in the game based on content and he isn't even town. I'm amazed that he still has it in him to make content based cases, I gave up on that after day 2.

Its also a good case without the meta in it. Not having to hunt scum because of obvious targets I could understand, but those questions Acro listed have come up enough times that risk should have answered them by now.
##Lynch: risk.nuke
##Travel to: Middle Ages

We'll see if he can come up with a satisfactory response or if he goes the way of the rest of the scum, trolling and screaming.

Middle Ages because I'm still VT and hoping I can regain my abilities.

Out of curiosity,
On December 06 2012 04:29 GreYMisT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 04:27 Keirathi wrote:
I assume we have to Epoch to a different time period each cycle, correct?


You are so right

Are we allowed to know what happens if we all vote for the Present again?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 21:35 GMT
#6548
On December 06 2012 04:50 Promethelax wrote:
wait, hope, why do the middle ages give you more abilities?

They don't as far as my role pm, but I'm currently VT and my flavor says my keg is empty. Being from the middle ages, I figure its the best place to get a refill.
Alternatively my HP is too low. By my count I still have a fully charges shot left (and 1 HP remaining) but I'm not allowed to hit myself to unlock it and I don't know why.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 21:42 GMT
#6552
On December 06 2012 06:37 Acrofales wrote:
I just read Zbo's filter and it is completely inconclusive. He has accused pretty much everybody of being scum for rather terrible reasons. Now he may really be trying to figure people out, pressuring them with long cases and reacting to their response, or he could be scum making bad cases on people in order to look townie.

There are some posts that just don't sit right with me, but it could be the problem of English as a second language.

His vote for Sandro D1 is not really indicative of alignment. His reasoning for the vote might be, but depends on meta. He never hopped off, but scum could easily have hopped off: Sandro wasn't getting elected.

His vote for Toad on D2 is also not indicative of alignment. He spends most of the day tunneling TC and never leaves off his scum read, however it was clear that TC was not going to be lynched. Choices were basically Sandro and Toad and a non-Sandro vote is consistent with his D1 behaviour.

After the lynch he makes a couple of posts accusing various people of being scum, but his activity drops off and he never follows up with actions. I will have to look at VE and SnB's filters to see if there's any associative tells, but Zbo's filter doesn't give me much to work with.

At the moment I am liking the test. Austin healing H1 seems like a pretty good idea. H1 is an unlikely target for other protection and I think he's probably town. Lets see if he can get that heal.

Back to deciding between CJ and risk which one is worse.

CJ will always be bad. Risk could be useful, he just isn't right now.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 21:44 GMT
#6553
On December 06 2012 06:41 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 06:35 Hopeless1der wrote:
On December 06 2012 04:50 Promethelax wrote:
wait, hope, why do the middle ages give you more abilities?

They don't as far as my role pm, but I'm currently VT and my flavor says my keg is empty. Being from the middle ages, I figure its the best place to get a refill.
Alternatively my HP is too low. By my count I still have a fully charges shot left (and 1 HP remaining) but I'm not allowed to hit myself to unlock it and I don't know why.

Lol. I guess saving H1 might not be a good idea.

Case 1: austin is town. He heals H1. Scum nails H1 with 151+ damage. H1 dies and we know nothing.

Case 2: austin is scum. He nails H1 with any damage at all. H1 dies and we know nothing.

Test result: inconclusive. Only advantage is keeping scum KP off people like Syllo.

I need to hit myself THEN unlock the vig shot, so I have much more than 1 HP. Scum could probably back calculate what that value is based on how much I hit Toad for. I'm willing to claim my HP remaining at deadline if that helps.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 21:57 GMT
#6561
On December 06 2012 06:48 CaveJohnson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 06:42 Hopeless1der wrote:
On December 06 2012 06:37 Acrofales wrote:
I just read Zbo's filter and it is completely inconclusive. He has accused pretty much everybody of being scum for rather terrible reasons. Now he may really be trying to figure people out, pressuring them with long cases and reacting to their response, or he could be scum making bad cases on people in order to look townie.

There are some posts that just don't sit right with me, but it could be the problem of English as a second language.

His vote for Sandro D1 is not really indicative of alignment. His reasoning for the vote might be, but depends on meta. He never hopped off, but scum could easily have hopped off: Sandro wasn't getting elected.

His vote for Toad on D2 is also not indicative of alignment. He spends most of the day tunneling TC and never leaves off his scum read, however it was clear that TC was not going to be lynched. Choices were basically Sandro and Toad and a non-Sandro vote is consistent with his D1 behaviour.

After the lynch he makes a couple of posts accusing various people of being scum, but his activity drops off and he never follows up with actions. I will have to look at VE and SnB's filters to see if there's any associative tells, but Zbo's filter doesn't give me much to work with.

At the moment I am liking the test. Austin healing H1 seems like a pretty good idea. H1 is an unlikely target for other protection and I think he's probably town. Lets see if he can get that heal.

Back to deciding between CJ and risk which one is worse.

CJ will always be bad. Risk could be useful, he just isn't right now.

I find that rather offensive considering I'm one of the only reasons why we even got a lynch this cycle.

Let's pretend that this was both verifiable and true. What era will give us another lynch? Unless you know something we don't, you're talking out of your ass like you always do.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 22:03 GMT
#6562
@Acro
Given that I have more than 1 HP (i.e. a little more difficult to kill), are you still against me getting the potential heal from austin? I'll claim my current HP before the deadline if it helps.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 22:17 GMT
#6567
On December 06 2012 07:07 Acrofales wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2012 07:03 Hopeless1der wrote:
@Acro
Given that I have more than 1 HP (i.e. a little more difficult to kill), are you still against me getting the potential heal from austin? I'll claim my current HP before the deadline if it helps.

If you feel scum would have to put significant effort into killing you, then I think you're a good target for healing by austin.

Okay well the ball's in austin's court anyways.

@austin
This era's ability is already locked in as a heal/shield right? If we went to EoT, you would NOT end up using an HP check, correct?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 22:33 GMT
#6570
On December 06 2012 07:31 iamperfection wrote:
how much of heal is it austin if you don't mind?

150 heal or 75 shield. Its in the thread bud.
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 06 2012 02:10 austinmcc wrote:
I can't account for the roleblocks or any missing actions. My role is different depending on the time period, but none of them match up.
  • While in 2300 AD or 12,000 BC I can counterattack anyone who dealt damage to me.
300 damage to the last person that dealt damage to me.
If multiple people hit me in the same cycle, it's split amongst them.
  • While in 600 AD or 1000 AD I can heal/shield
150 HP heal or 75 HP shield.
  • While in 65,000,000 BC or End of Time, I can find out a target's current hp



Cycle 6 I shielded Syllo. Didn't know everyone's health values, dienosaur was dead before the end of cycle, and out of the people that were being treated as confirmed town, syllo seemed the strongest player to me.

Cycle 7 I didn't do anything. Considered counterattacking Adam, making sure he was responsible for the damage on me like he claimed, but nobody counterclaimed the damage. Adam said he wasn't going to keep shooting me, so I figured best not to hit him.

One reason I prefer cycles where a lot of people have items/abilities/something waiting for them is that those are the cycles that are useful. I guess I can use End of Time to check a player's HP or two, make sure they're not lying, but otherwise healing/shielding sounds way more useful than an HP check. Especially given that now it's kind of telegraphed.

Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 22:39 GMT
#6573
He's era limited...have you read his ability properly or are you just basing this on the heal?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 22:50 GMT
#6578
+ Show Spoiler +
On December 03 2012 09:15 GreYMisT wrote:
ABILITY GET!

[image loading]



Upon arriving in 12,000 BC, you find a broken down machine labeled the "Epoch". You are not sure, but it looks like you can use this to travel through time. It should be repaired soon, so you better vote where you want to go!





You may now travel through time as a town. You may visit the following periods: 65,000,000 BC (Prehistory), 12,000 BC (antiquity), 600 AD (Middle Ages), 1000 AD (Present), 2300 AD (future), or the End of time. Vote in the voting thread with ##Epoch: <Time Period> (you may use the short names or the actual Year, with a preference for the short names).

You will vote on a new place to travel to each cycle.

It is now cycle 7, A counter on the dashboard of the Epoch reads Mandatory return to 1999 AD - Cycle 12

On December 05 2012 09:14 Mementoss wrote:
Gods have trouble counting? Lavos will appear cycle 11


Confirming Cycle 11 - return to 1999AD?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 05 2012 23:00 GMT
#6581
On December 06 2012 07:51 GreYMisT wrote:
Yes, that post had the wrong number because counting is stupid


+ Show Spoiler +
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 06 2012 03:31 GMT
#6600
1. I don't know if a heal will restore my powers, so I'd say I'm not a priority. However, I am a renewable source of vig hits/untargetability. If I find out how I can continue to drink people under the table, I'd be much more inclined to request heals.

2. Debatable but I think I've exhausted the limits of my role as far as getting more than I already know out of it.

3. There's this restaurant that's open like 24/7 called "Perfect". The food is cheap and sooo good after a late night. amidoingthisrite?

4. My character assists in finding the rainbow shell which is then used to develop all kinds of sweet weapons/armor. If we end up in 600AD I'd be very interested in being on the team.
You can read about it here: Rainbow Shell
Melchior ends up crafting the weapons, and he's ONE of the 3 gurus, whereas austin is claiming to be all three as his role. He may be a particular one within a given era.

I see no reasonable way to get us both onto a party, let alone one of us, and also, what are the chances that this would even do a damned thing for us? But hey, errant speculation is fun.

I don't suppose anyone has any actual information concerning Lavos?




Hey Kita, did you ever learn anything about your silver points?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 06 2012 22:59 GMT
#6670
Assuming my ability to do math is intact, I currently have 201 HP remaining, unless there are non-damaging but HP altering abilities that I'm unaware of.
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 06 2012 23:19 GMT
#6682
On December 07 2012 08:16 Promethelax wrote:
holy shit. Draz was telling the truth about his role.

not quite, but for Draz he was damn close.
I have nothing to report, what gives?
Hopeless1der
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States5836 Posts
December 06 2012 23:30 GMT
#6688
On December 07 2012 08:25 Acrofales wrote:
Oh, and KABLAM. Seeing as we have another lynch, do we have anybody else who went conspicuously AFK? Seems like a pretty easy way of catching scum.

Also, GK and Syllo confirmed town?

seems like they're confirmed, yes.
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