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Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI
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On November 15 2012 02:41 Hapahauli wrote: Flavor is not in the OP, but will be added to the game. I'm thinking South Park, but I'll take all suggestions Regarding Replacements: I'll wait to see the demand for spots in the game before adding players who have played 4+ games in those slots. You will be notified before the start of the game if you are a replacement OH pshht think of something original... like... a pack of mammoths for town and a group of tigers for scum. (although how tigers pass for mammoths in the day I have no idea) The night kill would go something like this... Barry the freaking tiger: "Munch munch lunch" Mammoth: "oh no a talking tiger" *mammoth one has been slain* Or... don't do that.... Sorry sonic you will always be scum to me <3 | ||
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1) How many games have you played on TL? Two one town one mafia. 2) Where do you stand on lurker lynching D1? Prefer not to but also dislike lynching insanely active people. (harder to beat mafia with these guys out the way{that said I tend to be one of these guys}) 3) Pie or Cheesecake? Both great. Discussion so far seems low and (almost) pointless but this is the first few hours. However talking is good, the more the easier it becomes. Oats is totally wifom-ing it up and just a comment (while I LOVE these types of arguments apparently the "if I am scum" is a bad sign (I used it both my games but more so when I was scum) Also don't like he went right out saying lynch lurkers day one. (although I have no compassion in regards to lurkers so don't lurk don't be lynched ^^ although this lets be build up my oats style profile) Not much to go on but have to find something. Also yamoto has black and whited this a little too much, if he is scuk (note you can say it from your side abit not effectively) he might have motivation for sheeping oats and then lynching oats. Or he is just enthusiastic and listing an option. | ||
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if they are seriously inactive replace is likely. | ||
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On November 25 2012 17:20 Kickstart wrote: If you really have a scum read on Mr.Cheesecake then you need to make a case on him that tries to persuade us all. Posting "I have a feeling he is scum" is not going to make anyone throw their vote on him. Would you maybe expand a bit on why you think he is suspicious or if you still do? Mainly the "or if you still do" you allowed him to backtrack something a nervous town might take advantage of if they feel it might put them in a bad situation. (one thing is for sure oats isn't nervous lol) However I am mainly interested in it as it doesn't appear to be (although I don't know your meta (haven't looked at it yes) something a town wouldn't say (giving all the options[admittedly I tend to do this for everything though]) so just curious on that particular wording. It came up in conjunction with your rant. Honestly I think oats is doing good by promoting conversation but he might have hit a sore spot. tl;dr any particular reason for creating a backout opportunity for him? | ||
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On November 25 2012 21:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: It wasn't so much your argument that confused me, but the sentence containing a double negation and a parentheses within a parentheses within a parentheses. Did I get it correctly that you thought giving Oat an easy out was scummy by Kick? Yes. I have to kick that habit. I am just confused why you are so angry and aggressive. *mental note to check history* It just looked like a strange thing to ask with the tail end out. Also we have to compare the two votes as they are the only two votes there are. We may find as you say they are completely different however but not as different as you think. But yeah I was thinking along the lines of oats put a target of his back. However some people *cough* kush *cough* use that play even as mafia to variable success. | ||
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I also think SDM is town just because I agree with most of the stuff he says but until later in the game focus on town reads isn't the best (although personally I still like them) However there are a few things I want to check with yamato and others so I will get back to you. | ||
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On November 25 2012 15:12 yamato77 wrote: That is, between Aqua and I, the only other 2 people actively keeping up. Ok comments on yamotos filter. This is brought up and if you check his filter all he was posting was one liners. In other words he wants to appear active when he wasn't really. he mentioned he was asleep before that (the post people have discussed) which would mean he sleeps for about 11 hours to get to 02:00 my time. Then he waits three hours to post. (this is based of the timings in his filter. however. Give him an hour before bed and that's 10 hours and the possibility of him checking the forum earlier on the first day means he probably just woke up and didn't check for a while. (while this may look pointless what I am saying is there is some validity for his sleeping story) Honestly I don't like yamotos yet and I want to see CC post more reads it's actually rather easy to defend yourself if that is all you are doing. need to look closer at helios and munkey doing this next. | ||
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Feel free to draw my attention to anything in particular I have missed or you want my opinion on. For now Munkey needs to contribute, he did have a nice long post that I disagreed with completely though. (well I found the sudden switch strange but the style was townie.) <-- in regards to his comments on oats. Aquariam (although has his reasons drops in and out a lot) | ||
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CC Kick and yahomi. if the lynch right now not cc he is active even if just in defending himself. Kick is rather active though I want to omgus him. That kinda leaves yahamto not strong but by elimination it would be him. | ||
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On November 26 2012 12:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Lets go with the association case now. If CC is scum, yamato isnt, if yamato is scum, CC isnt. How would CC see you as a threat? arnt me and SDM more of a threat at that point of time? How many times do I have to repeat that my vote is serious NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Day one association case. (you're learning from me though lol) Often mafia will hate each other early so they can say "but we hated each other" | ||
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On November 26 2012 15:23 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Early D1 association cases suck, you should know better. Hey I know! I pointed it out... | ||
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On November 26 2012 16:07 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: How did this work out for you? I'd expect that when you're suspicious of me, you would look into this before giving me a town read. Unless you know, you're not at all suspicious of me because you know I'm town. Ahh I changed subject without mentioning it. Was referring to kick. I must admit I forgot to look into it. Will do that now. | ||
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On November 26 2012 16:28 Oatsmaster wrote: nah, I think that he was kinda sad about the mafia game because he got played, so now he is trying to make sure that it doesnt happen to him again. How do you know this? | ||
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because you want me to be clearer (oats) Yamato is a scum read, his bit about. On November 25 2012 13:51 yamato77 wrote: If we sheep oats and lynch cheesecake, and he flips town, at least our day 2 lynch is an easy decision. Could be a way to try and get two town lynched with one stone. Saying it black and white like that. Before posting more than two posts (basically) he posts this On November 25 2012 14:16 yamato77 wrote: Still feel uneasy about me? Signals he is paranoid about what people think about him. Then does this On November 25 2012 14:53 yamato77 wrote: I don't really care for your topics of discussion, but that's about it. On November 25 2012 15:09 yamato77 wrote: I think the discussion is fine as it is. On November 25 2012 15:12 yamato77 wrote: That is, between Aqua and I, the only other 2 people actively keeping up. whaa? On November 26 2012 05:34 yamato77 wrote: Mr. Cheesecake is playing without contributing. He's written a lot, but most of it is absolutely useless to a town looking for scum. His policy discussion and talk about other mafia games he's played doesn't help hunt for other players, it seems like more of a defense for himself. Then he calls out two players, myself and Helo, trying to draw attention away from himself. None of this reads town to me, at all. Mentioned this before but it is exactly what he was doing but trying to call someone else out for it. And he swings a lot. Plenty of contradiction. | ||
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On November 26 2012 17:57 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Yeah that's a fair point, but if you think Kick's comment was allignment indicative I would've expected you to put some pressure. Instead you kind of just left it out there for others to either go with or ignore. As far as your Yamato case goes, what you point out is nothing new (I know claim that, you were just clarifying). A lot of it is stuff I've thought about and I think commented on. The problem I have is it feels like one of this cases I convince myself is good but end up being crap. It's just to easy to make. D1 it's very easy for scum not to leave those obvious openings. This is why I'm intrigued about Aqua's case on Kick. On surface Kick isn't scummy, but scum usually won't be scummy on the first day, at least D1 (I have yet to read the case though). Yeah, to be honest though and this is probably bad play on my part but my meta is very well there is this... and this! Until I get a solid above 60% read. (unless I find someone to omgus on) But the meta thing is indicative a little at least (considering day one) and aqua's case while going over a few things already mentioned was well put together. I think most likely scum are yamato and kick, aqua came out with a good post so... that puts munkey in a worse light comparatively (as far as lurking goes) CC is kinda like kick in away which is interesting. I don't have much else to say until these guys get back in the thread tbh. | ||
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Will look into it more before bed. On a side note how much time left before lynch? | ||
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On November 27 2012 00:38 Kickstart wrote: Aquanim: Despite his case on me I read him as slightly town. Actually the case on me gives me that read because aqau is activiely trying to scum hunt and bringing pressure onto people that weren't being pressured at all before, so this I like as town play and encourage him to continue doing. Mr. Cheesecake: null read. I soft-defended him because I felt like the cases were bad and had no weight, which I think can be agreed upon by everyone. Unfortunatly most of his posting doesn't allow me to have a town read on him because he hasn't done much in the way of sticking his neck out on anything. But on the other hand he has been forced to defend himself for most of Day 1 so I give him a null read thus far. In the middle of something but I saw this post. You soft defended him? You appeared to go on a rampage. Also why is that did you just decide to completely change your meta? Something that happened in my scum qt last game was we defined roles. To me this looks like you said I am going to act like this and kinda stuck to it. Maybe you just want to improve your play but just let me know why such a difference. Also you were being pressured before aquanim came at you ^^ Admittedly he came at you in a far more logical and organized way. Also votes are slowly being put on munkey. While there is no inherent problem with this there is also going to be no opposition to this town has no reason to not vote him and with no opposition mafa don't either. Just food for thought... (ie: mafa probably don't mind us voting for munkey) Little early to tell though. and completely wifom. | ||
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On November 27 2012 01:16 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Voting on Munk-E feels like such a cop out. Like admitting I can't find scum with the information given. Munk-E, now is the time to show up. Ninja'd it is a cop out and one mafia don't mind | ||
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##Vote: Yamato77 | ||
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Town do NOT blue hunt!! I do The fact Kickstarter focused on it isn't a surprise. Just interesting to note but my notes file has you two in a love story situation. This can be good or bad but you seem to defend each other. (this happens as town and scum) However it is true what you say about yamato. | ||
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On November 27 2012 07:19 yamato77 wrote: Jacob, equally, has contributed nothing of real value. If he's off playing a video game like he claims (terrible cop-out), then perhaps you guys need to pressure him into making reads that aren't complete fluff like posting a whole paragraph deciphering if I slept the right amount of time in his opinion. His vote on me seems contrived, as does Munk-E's, because neither one cast serious suspicion on me before placing their vote. Wrong I had you under serious suspicion for years before that vote. Anyway just woke up and am reading the thread. | ||
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On November 27 2012 08:09 Munk-E wrote: I didn't drop my case, because I never really had one. That post pointed out how at the time, oats posts were weird for a townie. Although may have been inductive of a potential scum alliance, it is much more likely he was just bad. On average, everyone has a 2/9 chance of being mafia, but by his posts,,i would put him at 1/3 You seem to be giving yourself plenty outs, if he flips town you can say (Oh he was only 1/3 guys totally not my fault) | ||
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Also Munkey is very cold along side kick who *Twitch* I will not start an association case on day one *cough* | ||
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On November 27 2012 08:43 yamato77 wrote: If your "serious suspicion" is the post I referenced where the entire content is saying you believe me when I say I was sleeping, then it wasn't serious at all, in my opinion. Give a read on someone that isn't completely terrible. No the sleeping thing was in your favor. One sec. | ||
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Yamato is a scum read, his bit about. Could be a way to try and get two town lynched with one stone. Saying it black and white like that. Before posting more than two posts (basically) he posts this Signals he is paranoid about what people think about him. Then does this whaa? Mentioned this before but it is exactly what he was doing but trying to call someone else out for it. And he swings a lot. Plenty of contradiction. [/quote] Also grabbing from my notes file there was this :"Yamato filter is kinda pathetic early on and he is trying to make people think it isn’t." (no offense it is a notes file ) I thought I was the initial one to mention your one liners being a problem but it's sheeping? Maybe I missed it but... | ||
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##unvote ##VoteMunk-E | ||
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There are three people not voting on monkey aqua kick and munky. Assuming monkey is town there is high chance that one of them would be scum trying to avoid a town flip. I like aqua and really don’t like kick but this is feel based. If munky is town then kick is probably mafia. If kick is mafia then yamato is town due to voting and if kick is mafia there is a weak association case with CC. It would make sense to split the voting so not all mafia vote for the same person. | ||
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On November 27 2012 12:32 Oatsmaster wrote: So vote CC anyone? also yeah how the hell would I mispost that when the 2 sites look TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Actually I think out of everyone who didnt vote for Munk-e, aqua looks the scummiest What site looks different. | ||
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On November 27 2012 13:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually looking through his filter, there seems to be scumhunting going on. He calls out kickstart for tunneling me, and posts a pretty ok case why kickstart is scum. I think that the 2 scum where on his wagon You are talking about aqua? What do you mean by on his wagon? On him or on kickstart? (or someone elses) | ||
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On November 27 2012 18:26 Aquanim wrote: @Mr. Cheesecake: What do you think is important for a good town atmosphere in Day 1? How do you think you contributed to this? How does this question help? (then again how does the question I am asking now help) hmm *starts searching filters for scum* | ||
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As for helios I went through his filter recently and found it clean however, it's also as you say completely possible to concoct his cases which was something I didn't take into account. | ||
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Also oats have ye no faith in your medic /jailkeeper assuming we have both or one of or any to be completely honest or several medics... | ||
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On November 27 2012 23:34 Kickstart wrote: (to the point of being a detriment - although if that is the case I wish he would just change his posting because I want to lynch scum, not town who are posting bad), as he himself posted he have to lynch scum, unless our blues are psychic. | ||
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On November 28 2012 05:38 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: If this is XXVIII all over again I would be the lesser version of DarthPunk and Cheesecake would be scum SDM trying to not piss off DP. Alright, now I might be going into conspiracy theory territory, but CC seems to be overly friendly to me. I'm not just talking about him sheeping me yesterday with Yamato, Oats and Helo early on. He also sheeped me after I voted on Munk-E. And now N1 when he lists people who flip-floped during the lynch, he somehow leaves me out. CC, I was the mother of all flip-flopers yesterday, why did you leave me out? Why do you think I'm town? If you are town CC, I urge you to view Kick's and in especially Yamato's efforts with an open mind. Tbh CC was being friendly with everyone, I believe helios kick and you primarily (although this was back from the start) (there is a another snippet of nothingness for you cheese. But I just woke up and wanted to comment. Cc likes helios CC likes kick Cc likes sdm Notes he has a lot of spread love | ||
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On November 28 2012 11:58 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: 2-3 people is hardly everyone, Jacob. Yeah but compared to the competition the second most liked person is helio with two accounts that stood out? Not saying OMG HE LIKES PEOPLE HE MUST BE SCUM or anything just putting down what I have observed. | ||
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It seems rather well thought out, (inspired by my munkey is confirmed town lets see what he had to say post?) However one thing he said you had the largest filter int he game about 5 pages. But in checking your filter I see 4 pages with only your latest post in the 4'th page? Formatting error or not paying enough attention to his reads. But I will re read your reply... actually i can't find it clearly could you link to it? | ||
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Well that isn't much on an defense to be completely honest. Just because it isn't automatically right doesn't mean it's wrong. There are still points brought up against you that you need to cover. If you are town take my opinion that it's actually a good case and needs to be discussed in enough detail to prove you innocent. if you are mafia then do whatever lol. | ||
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This has been based on. originally my read was he was to 'bad' to be scum however he has been doing so many stupid things I am unsure if he has employed it as a tactic. the 1 down 5 to go thing I mentioned has moved him into my limelight as I as well as sonic?(forget who exactly) Almost posted something like that when we were mafia. Only puts him neutral though but before I was reading him town due to style. | ||
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Also I see town motivation in your posts. Not sold on CC but... People need to respond to arguments against them! Yamato and oats instead of going after the person making the argument you should refute it THEN go after scum reads. Oats needs to reply to CC like SDM said (I need to recheck this argument) and Yamato needs to reply to munk-e/kick. | ||
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I have however been looking for scum and trying to understand people (hence the questions) | ||
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On November 28 2012 20:48 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Reading it right now. It was so long I put it on my things-to-read-later list :p I do this far too often lol. I need to find CC's case on oats now as oats didn't include it as a quote. | ||
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On November 25 2012 22:47 Oatsmaster wrote: OH YES FINALLY, you say why my behaviour is scummy. :D My explanation is that his first 2 posts seem off. What do you want? Cheesecake posted less than 10 posts, how can you garner any evidence from that? Just something I came across again. With all this talk of CC being scum because he is casual doesn't it seem like you are trying too hard to be town? the "OH YES FINALLY" part is like oh yay i'm a townie and someone is scum reading me! This is so amazing for no reason ever..... Town should just act like town. I admit I like a little enthusiasm but still. | ||
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On November 28 2012 21:04 Oatsmaster wrote: So I should not encourage good cases? His first post was just a commentary so it wasnt any good. He then followed it up saying that I voted for CC and it cause confusion which is what mafia do. I dont agree but at least he showed a scum motivation for retardly voting for CC which no one else did. How can it possibly be a good case if you are town? If you are town you should stop acting in a way that allows for a good case on you. If there is a good case on you as town take it into consideration and actually stop doing what the case says. Saying *start irl simulation* yay good case you got me haha buddy! Lets go to the pub /end irl simulation doesn't seem like the town thing to do (at least not in that manner.) | ||
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On November 28 2012 22:43 Oatsmaster wrote: Or I really didnt interact with yamato.. like I didnt react to helo until I made my top scum read post. Like I didnt interact with aqua until recently Are you defending yourself from an association case? | ||
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Either way that is significant interaction at least recently. So your argument before is void-ish | ||
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But that reminds me we should start going into hardcore mode. For the moment I will park my vote on oats for the reasons we have been going though. Although obviously this is prone to change as the tides turn. ##Vote: Oatsmaster | ||
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They always do | ||
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*cough* sorry | ||
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On November 29 2012 11:35 HeloKnight wrote: JacobStrangelove JS is feeling really scummy to me. I didn't really notice this earlier because it felt like he was posting a lot, and he has been; he's got one of the longest filters in the game (after SDM). However, his posts don't have much substance at all. While reading this, keep in mind that he has already played two games as town and one as scum. Relatively speaking, he should know what he's doing. Oh hey so you know I played two games as town? That's news to me... I haven't read the rest of your case but I will when I get back. Two games as town? That would make me town this game. Oh tell me if I am so scum why am I town? I have only played two games total. One as scum and one as town. Or did your research fail you. I'll be back. | ||
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On November 29 2012 11:35 HeloKnight wrote: JacobStrangelove JS is feeling really scummy to me. I didn't really notice this earlier because it felt like he was posting a lot, and he has been; he's got one of the longest filters in the game (after SDM). However, his posts don't have much substance at all. While reading this, keep in mind that he has already played two games as town and one as scum. Relatively speaking, he should know what he's doing. First of all you were wrong with the number of games played. Secondly I post a lot as town and mafia. Funnily enough I post more massive content as mafia as it aids in confusion and disorientating people. However let us continue into your post. On November 29 2012 11:35 HeloKnight wrote: Early Day One: Early day one, he's posting a lot, and putting out some reads, but not coming to any conclusions. Whenever he puts out an read on someone, he'll also state another read that shows the opposite. He doesn't want to lock himself into one viewpoint, he wants to keep his options open. Examples: Ok, there is a difference between thinking though something, being wishy washy and trying to confuse someone. Something that frustrates me is people that see the world is black and white. Nothing is black in white if it was everybody would be lynched. You have to look into how the person plays (with oats does he play like kush?) You have to consider all the possibilities. If you want meta examples it’s what happened to me in my first town game. Now I am not going to lie. I also used this argument last scum game but the difference was I wasn’t thinking out loud I was trying to be spastic. Ask yourself does this look more like someone putting their thoughts into the chat or like someone trying to confuse people? On November 29 2012 11:35 HeloKnight wrote: He'll also just post things that don't have conclusions. Analysis is good as long as a conclusion is made from it, otherwise it is pointless. This is another small thing to make it look like he's contributing while not saying anything at all. Examples: This "analysis" shows nothing at all. There's a decent-sized paragraph who's only conclusion is that yamato's 'sleeping story', a minor issue at best, is probably true. Here he comments on Kickstart's meta a little, but he doesn't reach any real conclusions because "going of one game isn't strong". Another comment on Kickstart's meta, but still doesn't come up with a read for it. He also leaves himself this "backout option" again in case he needs to 180 later. Basically, early on day one I see what he's doing as posting a lot and trying to look like he's contributing, but not coming up with much. He did post a case on yamato, which is a good point for him. Apart from this, however, nothing. Do I have no conclusion? Some of these are questions. My conclusion is in the first part of the sentence; my other option is in the second part for example. “To me this looks like you said I am going to act like this and kinda stuck to it. Maybe you just want to improve your play” I think he is scum because of this, however he could also be town. It’s wifom I could say you are scum because of this, but then on day one would I really be sure? With the hour sleep time thing, it is something I do to check up on when people say stuff about their whereabouts in relation to set patterns. After doing the work to find out I may as well let you know the results. The main thing to gather from the section though is yeah, I was suspicious of killing(lol just found this... can’t get over my first game it seems[I meant kick btw]) and asking him questions. Going into the wonderful world of wifom again I would be far more bothered as scum to make other people look like scum wouldn’t I? As town I would merely want to find out if they were scum. So by that logic wouldn’t I be more sure of my “reads” if I was scum? It’s wifom but think about it. Do my posts have scum or town motivation? Let me answer that question they have town motivation... On November 29 2012 11:35 HeloKnight wrote: The Lynch: JS's first vote is on yamato, one of his top two scum reads. He says that he doesn't want to lynch Munk-E for "listed reasons" which I am unable to find, I assume he is wary because no one is defending him. Okay, he votes for his top scum read. After three votes are on Munk-E and CC considers voting for him, JS "reevaluates" his opinion of him. He first says his reason for not voting Munk-E, but then ignores that reason and comes up with a reason why Munk is now scummy. Now, I personally agree more with the second reason for voting Munk than the first reason for not voting him, but that's not the point here. The point is that he had a reason that he didn't want to lynch Munk, but abandoned it while it was still valid (in his eyes) when people started to vote for Munk. The bolded line doesn't even make sense, those aren't scum strategies. Concerned about being seen as sheeping? Nervous? I will break this section up, The listed reasons... First I didn’t see the need to repeat everything I or others said on the topic. But to find the reasons for you. 1. Coin flip 2. I mentioned it was a cop out 3. “Also votes are slowly being put on munkey. While there is no inherent problem with this there is also going to be no opposition to this town has no reason to not vote him and with no opposition mafa don't either. Just food for thought... (ie: mafa probably don't mind us voting for munkey) Little early to tell though. and completely wifom.” 4. I thought yamato was more scum “but then ignores that reason and comes up with a reason why Munk is now scummy. “ I would like to note that munk-e wasn’t posting before this. Then suddenly he turns up close to lynch. This wasn’t a factor before this point so it wasn’t a reason to have. “The bolded line doesn't even make sense, those aren't scum strategies.” It’s one of mine lol I missed almost every lynch until like an hour before last game, (half a hour taken up with reading the thread of course despite actually being a fast reader) About the sheeping thing, yeah. People often think someone is sheeping without looking at the situation. For example munk-e turned up in what I deemed a scum like manner. Two posts all game and suddenly heaps of posts trying to defend him in the hour before lynch. On November 29 2012 11:35 HeloKnight wrote: And here he actually votes for yamato. He says that he can no longer vote for yamato because Kick and Munk (suddenly someone he is highly suspicious of) are both voting for him. This isn't a valid reason for not voting for your scum read. Just because they are both voting for yamato doesn't make him any less scummy, it just means that Kick and Munk are also suspicious of him. It was possible that Kick and Munk were a scumteam both voting for yamato (???), but it's much more likely that not all of his reads were correct. In fact, one of Munk, Kick, and yamato couldn't be scum because there are only two. Instead of voting for his top scum read, he finds a way to sheep the current wagon. Votecount at the time for reference: + Show Spoiler + On November 27 2012 10:06 iamperfection wrote: Votecount: Mr. Cheesecake (0): Oatsmaster(0): Yamato77 (3): Munk-E (4):HeloKnight,Sonic Death Monkey,Yamato77,Mr. Cheesecake Kickstart (2)Aquanim, Not voting (0): If you see your (or another's) vote to be wrong, it would be kind to notify us. Currently Munk-e is set to be lynched less than 2 hours remain It's important that the point of this section isn't that people voting Munk-E are scum. It's that people sheeping the Munk lynch when they think others are scummier than him is suspicious. In summary, early on day one, JS tries to look like he's contributing a lot without putting many concrete opinions out there. He gets a scum read on yamato, but votes for Munk instead as the wagon takes off. Trying to look like you are contributing without doing so, not providing clear opinions, and sheeping wagons are all traits of scum. [Note: I have removed paragraphs from some quotes for length. They do not change the meaning of the quoted portion and no words or sentences have been changed.] ##Vote: JacobStrangelove So you are saying I sheeped onto munk-e to avoid a lynch on yamato? I would only do this (fine wifom warning) if I was scum with a scum partner yamato. Why would I want to be connected with a mislynch otherwise? I have to admit I was wrong to vote munk-e but he had just popped up seemed suspicious and I was having some doubts about my yamato case. So I took the chicken’s way out. As scum I could just keep my vote on yamato even if he was my partner. The tide had already changed in munk-e’s disfavour. | ||
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Explain what parts of his case you like why you agree with it... something just do something... | ||
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On November 29 2012 15:48 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I haven't read jacob's response to the case btw. You haven't read my response? Lol don't bother just read yours again Comments to yamato is there any posts you have made where you mentioned being suspicious of me (I forgot) Or did you just decide to start being suspicious now that two other people are? | ||
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On November 29 2012 16:31 yamato77 wrote: This also isn't the first time I've had to direct you to posts I've made. Do you even read my filter? Jesus. Dude I misspelt your name for the entire first day. That doesn't mean I didn't read it just didn't remember it exactly and found it quicker to ask. On November 29 2012 14:59 Oatsmaster wrote: I made 2 cases. They were not very good. Now I have a scum read on Jacob because all he has done is actually ask 1 liners that looked useful but were not useful to town. In all honestly you could say the same about you but as well as one liners you are avoiding direct questions, not putting out good cases and sheeping like it's going out of fashion. At the moment there are two main discussions for lynch you and I. While there is plenty of time for people to land a solid case we have two/three situations. 1. Town is completely bamboozled and we are both town. 2. One of us is scum and the other is a wagon set up to counter act it. 3. We are both scum and something went seriously wrong (although I obviously from my perspective know this isn't true) At the moment the votes are = and yamato is on the fence. Yamato isn't voting yet because he is undecided on us and on kick/cc possibility. Now he could be actually undecided or he could be your scum partner (or just scum if you aren't partnered) waiting for someone to turn the tide so he isn't tied down to a lynch decision. (note this was written before aqua's vote just got side tracked) First I want helo's current read on oats. Then... something else... For the moment I am just spelling out the situation. | ||
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On November 29 2012 19:16 Oatsmaster wrote: What is the point of spelling out the scenarios? And 2. If you are town, should the sentance read: 'Oats is scum and his partner setup a counter wagon' ?? Well that is possible.... that would make helos scum though hmm. What I more meant was you jumped on it immediately making it a counter wagon. But I will extend it, the point of spelling out the scenarios is to avoid a mislynch. if we don't get everything clearly sorted out soon we have far more potential for one. Helos and everyone that hasn't commented needs to make a clear statement on both oats and I. If oats and I are not your top scum read you should also make a read on them. | ||
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For example if oats is town with no association case is the yamato case still strong? Yes it was strong without association but it doesn't make sense as I would have associated cc with kick. Then again that is far to logical an association so having helo in the mix is interesting... Well lets put it this way. It is likely he is doctor because he gave us ages to think about it. Also SDM that is risky like.... risky..... admittedly I see the logic behind it. give me time to think... | ||
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On November 30 2012 00:40 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: God fucking damnit, you're not notified when you're roleblocked, I need to start reading OP before playing. This means we don't know a damn fucking thing. And this is why we need breadcrumbs... although even then scum could breadcrumb "saving" obvious town. (see thrawn my last scum game he was playing as serial killer but still) It's much more reliable. | ||
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However we lose doctor and our most town posters will die later. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:10 Oatsmaster wrote: Well I say we scum hunt because no one will counterclaim CAUSE IM TELLING HE TRUTH In that case we should counter claim because no claim would prove you right. Unless we don't have a doctor but the likely hood of a role block hitting the right target would be insane. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:14 Kickstart wrote: Now I am pissed at Oats and SDM so I can't make sense of shit atm. | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:14 yamato77 wrote: We could have 2 blues that are both not doctors and neither one could counterclaim, but he would still be fake claiming. Even if we can counterclaim, doing so gives scum a really easy target and we trade Oats for our doc. I'm not sold on this idea at all. Oh yeah cop jailkeeper... (I would assume we have two blues) a mass role claim would probably be a bad idea at this point as well. | ||
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For example if oats flips doc we lose sdm in the night. That is two possibly confirmed town. If doc was to claim we would lose doc without losing sdm. If oats is scum we lose nothing (apart from a lesser town if scum takes that path) | ||
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On November 30 2012 01:47 yamato77 wrote: If you think he is scum without the claim, that is how you should act. True but I think the fact he gave us all the time in the world to decide is positive. It's 3 am ipl starts in like an hour and I doubt I can last till 1pm if I don't sleep. I could get 7 hours sleep and then 3 hours to work though everything but I don't know. | ||
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On November 30 2012 09:22 Oatsmaster wrote: Ok that convinces me that CC is scum. It's not going to convince anyone else. | ||
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5 on oats and 2 on aqua | ||
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On November 30 2012 10:20 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually any decent scum partner will be bussing the hell out of me right now if I am scum, please do not use that as a reason to unvote me. True. | ||
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But I have the advantage of knowing I am town. | ||
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On November 30 2012 11:00 yamato77 wrote: Pretty sure no lynch is an option if none of you can make a real decision. you are part of this decision. | ||
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##UnVote ##Vote: Yamato | ||
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On November 30 2012 11:12 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Since when is he your top scum read and why? And why do you feel it relevant to throw out a vote on your "top scum read" without a case fucking 50 mins before deadline? Do you really think that will change anything? Probably not but with oats being townish he is my main scum read. But true it probably won't change anything which is why I am trying to convince myself aqua is scum. | ||
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Also I am beginning to think oats is town as I have mentioned not sold on aqua what do you want me to do? Not vote on who I think is scum if the votes come down to aqua oats then yes I will vote on one of them. | ||
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On November 30 2012 11:21 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Terrible scum trap fail the sequel. lol I had this saved On November 30 2012 11:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Did you just scum slip? If you saved me you should KNOW that I'm townie, otherwise we'd have a NK. As medic don't you save your strongest read you can't know anything for sure but thinking about it I won't post till after he does as that could be another attempt at a scum trap. | ||
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##UnVote ##Vote: Aquanim Choo Choo! Now I will leave and convince myself this is right. | ||
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On November 30 2012 11:38 HeloKnight wrote: No, 4v4 with Oats breaking the tie, right? True. | ||
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On November 30 2012 12:01 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: At least you'll finally be doing something. HAHAHAHA | ||
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On November 30 2012 12:14 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm just going to go ahead and confirm Oats doc in my mind. a jk would have claimed because jk/doc is like impossible. I see no reason Oats isn't doc. Yamato, Helo, Jacob. Scum is two of them. I agree with this. I will bring out a full on proper case re-hashing everything instead of just assuming people remember everything I have said and understand my intention. | ||
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On November 30 2012 12:16 Oatsmaster wrote: I think yamato isnt scum, unless he has the best non town meta that looks like town. I also think kickstart could be scum Kick could also be scum yeah. anyway I will continue watching ipl for now think and will be back later with proper cases. | ||
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I have created an if I die post detailing the situation for whatever happens with the Nk. I will be back with a complete case later. | ||
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I will ignore most of the early game for my posts in that case and focus more on the later days, this is because scum find it easy to hide early in the game anyway. I will post what i was going in circles with just so you know what was up but to quote myself at the start of the last case I abandoned. Ok I started a case on kickstart then I thought hmm no helo is probably more scum and after reading a bit abandoned it in favour of a case on yamato after writing a bit about that I have been pointed to kick.... So I will spoiler what I was looking at and have a drink and look at the later stages of the game again. This was my start on yamato. (remember take it for what is is worth I have no confidence in looking at the early stage anymore) + Show Spoiler + So I will re-hash old topics and this will be an extensive case. I did plenty of these as scum but the difference is I will be very clear and precise about my reads and what I think everything means. I also might not quote the whole thing when referring to things because it is really hard to see the formatting in a word doc. Why yamato is scum. He wants to appear active without actually being active in the early stages of the game. He goes on CC for playing without contributing saying “None of this reads town to me, at all.” Then a soon as CC replies he folds beginning his first major post which is a defence. Ending with the conclusion of. “ I'm on the fence about Mr. Cheesecake. His posting is still mostly defending himself, and attacking two players who posted early, me and Helo. That kind of behavior doesn't really indicate alignment, but if he keeps coming after me with posts that don't even address my concerns about him, I'm going to vote for him. Most of what I've posted so far has been to get a reaction, and it has worked. How people answer questions and accusations are definitely tells.” He has gone from doesn’t look like town to on the fence and also tries to prohibit CC from going after him with “if he keeps coming after me with posts that don't even address my concerns about him, I'm going to vote for him.” However there is the “if he doesn’t address the concerns” part I will admit. Then the hypocrisy. In regards to oats he says this. “You want my opinion on Oats? He is probably just a bored townie early on because him giving some silly read is just to spark discussion on something.” When before he said this regarding himself. “Most of what I've posted so far has been to get a reaction, and it has worked. How people answer questions and accusations are definitely tells.” Isn’t this the same thing? Why is it silly when oats says it and logical when he says it. I’ll include this for his clarification but personally I don’t think it changes much. On November 26 2012 08:23 yamato77 wrote: Also, to clarify, when I say Oats is a bored townie, calling someone scum really early is just what I think a bored townie would do when no one is posting anything useful. His posting after that is what I mean to be not alignment indicative. This was my start on kick. + Show Spoiler + Ok I started a case on kickstart then I thought hmm no helo is probably more scum and after reading a bit abandoned it in favour of a case on yamato after writing a bit about that I have been pointed to kick.... So here is the case on why kick is scum. 1. His meta is completely different, he has said many times meta isn’t good in newbie games but I find it very telling. (for example I can get a good grasp of a meta read on sdm and such) From yamato... “As far as reads on other people. Kickstarter's sheer aggression when defending Cheesecake against Oats is astounding. He uses vulgar language more than once and seems wholly preoccupied with Oats' vote being on CC. He doesn't even care if other people think Oats is scum necessarily, so why did he vote for him? The play doesn't really make sense because all he did was cause a whole lot of uproar over a play that no one else saw as scummy. If anything, THAT seems like a scum play.” While you shouldn’t care if other people think someone is scummy as you don’t want to sheep oh great I just talked my way out of this case as well.... I'll be back sorting out who I think is scum properly looking at the thread from a bit before the doc claim and first lynch. | ||
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On November 30 2012 19:08 Oatsmaster wrote: SDM, your strat is probably a bad idea if it involves claim/directing blues. Please dont post it Why not at least suggest it sounds perfect to me. | ||
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But they won't plan their night actions as he will post it right before the night post before they have time to respond. | ||
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I even had dreams about kick scum slipping by posting graphs that were somehow linked to the scum qt. However the aqua lynch while bad might end up in our favor. | ||
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On December 01 2012 08:51 Kickstart wrote: I can read the thread and see how it went down - poorly. Thanks captain obvious! This is useful information! | ||
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With Sdm dead and the possibility of role blocker my end of day post probably isn't as reliable but it was going to be this. However I didn't even think about sdm dying. HOWEVER, With sdm not being saved I would say that helps oats town ness due to if there was another medic (who decided not to role claim) they wouldn't have been role blocked. The only other possibility is if we have a role blocker who happened to hit the scum that was carrying out the hit and they changed who carried the hit out. (note I am only posting the end of night post now so you know I was actually away) + Show Spoiler + So I decided not to do long case in the night as it would one increase my chances of survival and to be honest I got lazy and figured the Nk could completely changed the dynamic so I decided to settle with this post. The positive side assuming the doc saves Sdm then mafia has to nk someone else. This means that considering everyone else could be viewed as scum who they hit might reveal a lot of information. (since aqua was probably up until the lynch the scums next choice) For example, in my opinion CC or I will die tonight (the oats dying scenario is below). This leaves oats, kick yamato and helos and whoever does die between us. The other option is oats dies and with this reveals completely that sonic is town (due to saving him) Leaving CC who I still have a town read on which leaves kick yamato and helos. Which is actually the optimal situation in my opinion. Also sdm mentioned a way to confirm oats scum or town, in my opinion this is a way to trick scum into killing him and he actually hasn’t a clue (sorry sonic) But if he does then the game is virtually over. (ok not quite but should be much easier) Now you are probably thinking how does this help. Well, my feel reads in regard to lynch have been virtually all right (although no doubt I have annoyed some town with the more ambiguous ones) For example I felt something was wrong with the monkey lynch but I ignored it and voted anyway. It’s obvious I felt something was wrong with aquas lynch but I weighted up the risks and I felt oats was more town. Also I decided we could probably get more information with 0 major risk if we lynched someone else. Although my oats read cannot be backed up yet but I hope it will be this nk. So, in the first option saying I die. (although it will probably be CC) Sonic is town CC is town oats is town (although I have a list regarding particularly strange oats behaviour below) and yamato helo and kick are the candidates. In the second option, I don’t need to list it as I will be alive ^^. Some notes on oats, yeah he still is scum like. He seemed against working out if he is scum or town. He still isn’t helpful. But he felt town and watching the nk will probably help us with this. | ||
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CALLED IT, man I'm good... | ||
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On December 01 2012 13:25 Oatsmaster wrote: Actually, metareading kick, He is the second scum.. Going purely off meta he is the scummiest person in the game been saying this since day one. | ||
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The only way we can have a doctor is if we don't have a jk claim. At this point in the game Jk may as well claim we are at mylo and we need all the info we can get. If we have no jk then we can be sure oats is the doctor. Also if we had a jk sonic would still be alive. Look at his end on night post the logic is perfect. No doc claim no jk claim. This is assuming two blue roles but it makes the most sense. (and lets be honest we 100% would have a doc or a jk if we only had one blue role (due to no nk night one)) While he has been playing horribly he isn't scum and his claim must be right. (if you are jk or doc claim now) Second point we can use time to our advantage. A no lynch is best for town (assuming it is mylo not lylo) This gives us three days (including what is left of this one to find and be sure of scum) Now you might be thinking, but we will lose a town in the processes. Yes but the longer and the less people there are the better. Also we still have the doc. They have to kill the doc or someone who isn't the most town player. (because doc would save the most town player) this gives us MONUMENTAL information. (and if he does we can keep no lynching until they hit someone sure the game will drag out but trust me to win it will be worth it) The way I see it scum would have to pull the greatest feat of all time to win this one. So Look at my logic oats is town, any objections? Second No lynch is best for town as it proves oats innocent or removes a non confirmed townie. This would leave us with oats who is already basicly proven innocent and at least one other strong town. (we have 6 players with no lynch it comes down to 5, 2 of those would be confirmed town (whoever oats says he saved which he should post the minute before nk)) At this point the cop should come out with all his bread crumbed reads (if we have a cop) and the game is won. three confirmed town (assuming cop isn't killed and that we have one) If any of this doesn't make sense let me know, at the moment I think kick and helos are the scum and I will explain why after I finish things and make my cases. | ||
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Also seemed my post was so good it crashed TL what was that? | ||
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Although with the no lynch strat they have to kill the doc with this strat. Anyway I think it's perfect. and yes I will get around to the cases just when I have all the time in the world to do it in (assuming everyone agrees with a no lynch I want to make sure everyone understands what I am saying now completely before continuing) | ||
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On December 01 2012 22:58 Oatsmaster wrote: COP CLAIM IF YOU WANT, DONT CLAIM IF YOU DONT WANT TO. Ok Jacob stop talking about cop claiming. Oats logic, on the very last day where if we lynch wrong we lose if we have a cop he should 100% claim. But he shouldn't claim now if he doesn't want to but yes I will stop talking about it now. I have also realized that without sonic and aqua there isn't anyone on to talk to at this point in time. Either way the one thing we should 100% do is vote no lynch. ##Vote: No Lynch | ||
JacobStrangelove
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Yeah yamato isn't dying lol, I want yamatos opinion reading what I said confirming oats as town do you still have the same opinion of CC? I think Aquas lynch considering we can confirm oats was probably in the long run the best thing that could have happened. (besides hitting scum) Now I know I have been against you all game but try to put that aside. Sonic was with me on this and if you don't trust me trust sonic. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote: Im pretty sure he cant, thats why no claim, I am also wary of a framer if I am the cop. Anyway, what do you think about kickstarts switch in meta? The whole framer thing would make perfect sense to the cops actions (yes didn't manage to sleep) Was trying to reset schedule but I have worked out a way to almost prove the cop as a cop depending in the reads he gives (this is completely assuming he exists and I want to be ambiguous for now but it makes even more sense. Oats you have revealed the way. I didn't realize about the framing but now all this work makes sense. | ||
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Day one scum didn't kill anyone. We must have a jk or doctor. Unless scum didn't kill anyone and tried to fake claim. But if they were that smart they would have breadcrumbed. Day two sonic dies. We must have a doctor not a Jk or sonic would be alive. What more do you need! | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 10:02 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I have no idea what that sentence means. It means I am not cop but I am like 99% sure yamato is. I need him to claim because I have a fool proof way of knowing if his claim is read depending on his reads. I can't say more because I need his reads to confirm him and if I say more scum might pick up in my train of thought. | ||
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Secondly we can't mess the lynch up so we need the claim now. (assuming we don't only have one blue role) | ||
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On December 02 2012 10:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Jacob, I thought you subtly claimed doc to me earlier. So confused right now. I was trying to keep it ambiguous so that yamato would claim. Unfortunately I slept right when you made that comment about me being cop. I would LOVE to be cop but no I am not. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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Actually now I see it in the morning it is horrible. But hopefully you can see what I was getting at. "The whole framer thing would make perfect sense to the cops actions (yes didn't manage to sleep) Was trying to reset schedule but I have worked out a way to almost prove the cop as a cop depending in the reads he gives (this is completely assuming he exists and I want to be ambiguous for now but it makes even more sense. Oats you have revealed the way. I didn't realize about the framing but now all this work makes sense. (yamato trying to hard to lynch oats)" Now you might think it's horrible and yes it is but it's also pointless as actual information considering I went thought that just before. I was trying to breadcrumb that I thought oats was framed and all the work (or stubbonness) made sense... | ||
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I would lynch kick his counter argument all game has been meta is a bad read. No it isn't if you post good cases on people with solid thought one game as town you don't just stop posting good cases next game. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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Here is a test 1+1= ? If I told you the answer was 2 would you believe me? It's black and white logic in this scenario. I think kick and helos are praying on yamatos mind to get the only lynch they can get. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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"And so what if I have only pushed my Oats and Yamato scum reads, they are who I found most scummy. Oats not anymore but still Yamato. " and just then "I would not want to chance lynching him now without something extremely solid saying he is scum" <-- referring to oats Is this a contradiction? | ||
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On December 02 2012 10:52 Kickstart wrote: Are you daft, they say the exact same thing. Can you please make serious posts with so much riding on this day period. Can you please stop insulting me for no reason? What I meant was you said oats wasn't a scum read then you said he was a possibility. (not 100% town) unless.... | ||
JacobStrangelove
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But in both these teams helos is mafia. I think yamato is the confused town. So a helos vote would be safest. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 10:55 Kickstart wrote: I really don't need to say anything else. You thought that that was a good play AND that Oats is/was 100% confirmed.... really? he WAS more valuable alive and seemed MORE town and he IS 100% confirmed now. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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Look I am good at this sort of thing. First newbie game (playing as town) it got down to the last lynch I realized everything and saved the game. My second game (playing as mafia) I was confused up until the last lynch of course and thought everything was wrong. Either way I am lynching helos town needs to lynch the same person or we lose. I will force the lynch on helos if I must. I did this in my first town game forcing the lynch on sonic and I will do it again if I must. ##unvote ##Vote: HeloKnight | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 11:02 Oatsmaster wrote: I want to shout at yamato so much. Kickstart, why would CC try to gain support for the Aqua lynch then? You said that scum would want to lynch a probable blue, Also If we no lynch today, I die so thats not so good. ##Unvote ##Vote: HeloKnight I want to shout at both of you so much but that won't help the game move forward. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 11:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I'm just confused who my scumbuddy is supposed to be. Kick/yamato/ and Helo are against me. None of them are candidates. Oats is doctor, and we've been attacking each other forever. Jacob I thought was cop, lol. One of Yamato or Kickstart is confused as hell right now. I can't help but think it's Yamato, he's had it out for me ever since I nearly lynched him. This is something I fall into a lot was playing along minding my own business in my first game suddenly this guy called killing makes one case on me and I explode. Tunnel him for like 3 days a week at least actual time. Thankfully I didn't lynch him but... | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 11:09 Kickstart wrote: I can't be 100% certain why he would do that. I can only come up with theories. What seems most likely to me at the moment is that he is going for town cred and trying to push a lynch with his new "cred". He switches off of you, lynching Aqua. Right there he has secured your vote and gotten rid of a vote that may not go his way, now all he needs is one more vote, and with a scum partner he has all the votes he needs. This is even more evident to me because after the Aqua lynch he immediately goes into how much of a good play it was and how town he is - and then tries to push a course of action for day 3. So right now I think Cheese is scum and tried to gain some quick town cred and push his agenda with it. Actually I think I pushed the agenda day 3. Just sayin' | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: He wanted a no-lynch when we thought there was a cop. This is true. I pushed the agenda of who was town with the logic regarding oats I would like someone to actually try and refute that logic anyone? I pushed who I thought were scum based on this. | ||
JacobStrangelove
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On December 02 2012 11:16 Kickstart wrote: This is so shit. I don't feel comfortable with anyone and if I get this wrong we lose the game. This was exactly my scum strategy last game. Being indecisive. if you are actually indecisive vote helos. You know why? Because if you are scum or town he is still scum. I mentioned this before. | ||
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Look at the way he is acting, it is so town like. But to convince you oats is doc. Nobody died night one. We have to have a doc or a jk or else someone would have died. We still have no claim on a day where you have to claim. We can't have a jk instead of a doc anyway because sonic died night 2 where doc can't save the same person. Oats has played bad enough to not have made a breadcrumb. if oats was scum fake claiming why did nobody die night one? One possibility they wanted to fake claim doc. but if they did a tactic that advanced they would have make a breadcrumb. This is why oats is doc 100% if you are not happy with this what part is wrong? | ||
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On December 02 2012 12:03 yamato77 wrote: JK misplayed Night 2 or got roleblocked by mafia. No claim. Checkmate. | ||
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On December 02 2012 12:07 yamato77 wrote: Look, you guys are playing like there is zero doubt which is impossible in a game like this. It's fucking weird. I spent an entire day just running though blue possibility in my head. There is zero doubt as to oats being town. Try again. And please try and thing about something we haven't already discussed. | ||
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Put it this way, oats cc and I are all on helo. One of us must be town at the very least which means town needs to all be on the same person or we lose. So either lose or vote helo. So wait does a jacob/ CC scum team make sense? | ||
JacobStrangelove
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But if it helps look at my end game play for both my other games. My meta is spot on. Do you seriously think I am scum? If not CC/jacob team makes no sense. | ||
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Helos I thought was blue forever because he wasn't super active but appeared so cuddly and cute (or... something). EDIT! (because I can) | ||
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Let's all be bad together *opens wine* if you know what I mean (no wait that wasn't what I meant...) | ||
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On December 02 2012 15:12 DarthPunk wrote: I also want to thank all of you for playing in this game. It was hilarious to watch and made the obs qt one of the best I have ever partaken in. I have to thank the obs thread, great popcorn posting and post game amusement. | ||
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On December 02 2012 23:06 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: WTF did we actually win this game? LOL DIDN'T YOU REALISE? | ||
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On December 02 2012 23:33 Clarity_nl wrote: Lol. Lurker lynch generally is to get scum to post, and a last resort. Only lurker lynch if you truly have no scumreads at the end of D1. Yeah exactly though! But you can meta game it and randomly lynch the third guy. (I know it's stupid) But it so totally is my first move next game ^^ | ||
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